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Byder
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« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2008, 10:18:26 pm »

Wow!!! Now there is B, kicking it off well and truly!! That's what I am talking about Smiley
Awesome to have you on our little book club B Grin
Cool, once I get to work and get a free op, maybe at lunch... gonna post all my comments and responses!
Hope everyone is having a great start to their weeks.. I am recovering from a wedding yesterday eve/night!!! Hehe
~C
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« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2008, 10:30:38 pm »

Aww thanks Chris Smiley I am glad you liked it!!!!!

I thought I would join your book club, especially since it was for a Jane Austen novel, how could I resist!!!!!! Good to see you are wearing your P&P sig again!!!!!

Cant wait for some discussion!!!!!!

B xxx

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« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2008, 04:49:55 am »

Yes hey C & B!  Grin B your comments look amazing! Although..they were a little early but good none the less. I will be posting and making discussion later also when I get a a chance but until then classes await!
Also B feel free to spread the word a little about the club. I have been trying for awhile now but maybe a more know member could make more of an impact.

So I will leave you with this 2 little questions to get the chatting started!

How is Lady Susan Vernon and Mrs Catherine Vernon alike?

Do they show any characteristics of Jane Austen?
( as we all know Jane Austin put alot of her own life into her books only with a more happier ending usually. )
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« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2008, 11:25:56 am »

Hey Berkley!!! So the Book Club is finally happening... yay!!! This is super cool, I am so happy Smiley

I spent a lot of the time reading the first chapters of Lady Susan and began wondering if (due to the fact that it was written toward the end of Jane Austin's life) if the character of Lady Susan was based on her life in anyway. Now you're probably thinking, WHAT?! But lets just remove a few factors from the equation... Jane never married, so drop that link to Lady Susan, thus she never had a child, but surely during her time on earth she was not alone and didn't go with out the pursuit, and her own pursuit of men. What if some of her own, 'flirtatiousness' is revealed through the character of Lady Susan?! Just somewhere my mind wandered during the reading... also watching, 'Becoming Jane' again Smiley So I suppose that is my response to your second question Grin

I certainly agree with B, along the lines that we are very quickly made to dislike Lady Susan. She comes across as high manipulative and scheming... we are given quiet an insight into seeing many lines and routes of discussion, which opens the view on Lady Susans behavior wide open. Says one thing to one person and completely the opposite to another... I certainly am intrigued to see where the book will lead and how the character of Lady Susan will be developed thru out the letters.

Another character I am keenly watching is Frederica... she has so far been downplayed, but often in Jane Austen stories the lesser often ends up in sometimes the most meaningful and fulfilling positions. Smiley

Well, that's my two cents worth so far! Can't wait to get into the rest of the book... thinking I might go read some of the next chapters now Smiley

C
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« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2008, 03:09:31 pm »

I would like to read more bout Frederica also. I believe she had great potential in the story and could develop into a very round charater or a very dramatic one. I could see her rebeling at school resulting in her mothers social life to be dented.

At B  on Frederica I think she has great intelligence of the situation but her father just died in the past year and to see her mom throwing herself at other men so early has got to be tuff.
And OMG B u didn't just bring celeb gossip onto this board. Oh sweetie we read books not gossip magazines.

On the topic of Jane's 'flirtatiousness' being put in the story I could totally see that! She wanted so much to find love and she did in her life but it was taken from her in a difficult way. To live her life and to never marry had to be hard.
( oh has anyone ever heard Jane ever having another romantic interest in her life? I havent and was wondering if she stuck true to her man   Cheesy ........even if he didnt stay true to her.  Embarrassed)
Oh and I found Jane to be a forceful romantic in Becoming Jane. She had a gaurded & intelligent exterior to her and I bevlieve men found that attractive.
In a special way I think her books were Jane's getaway and her "diary" to what to she wanted and what she had in life.

Now Lady Susan causing us to hate her with her own words  is bloody brillliant on Janes part! To make a character you could meet in real life and be disgusted with after hearing was spectacular to put onto paper. This makes the story even more wonderful & fasinating.
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« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2008, 05:31:47 pm »

Hey! The celeb thing is highly relevant in showing how the issues Jane Austen presents us with are still happening in modern society. As a further modern example which is VERY relevant to Jane Austen, have a look at Clueless - as a modern remake of Emma it shows that Jane Austen was very clued in when it comes to social intricacies that evolve throughout every generation. (So far as I have read) you could easily rewrite Lady Susan to suit a modern telling. Being able to make these associations in analytical essays can be very powerful for any of you studying literature, it gives your essay a tangent that most other people in your class wont take so its a topic thats best not dismissed.

Im not so sure of Frederica having intelligence so much as a fiery attitude and a desire to rebel against her mother. She is described (many times) in the first few letters as dull and uneducated by many different people including Lady Susan, Mrs Vernon, and Reginald Vernon. While she is not written as phyically unattractive, her unattractive personality makes me view her as someone like Charlotte Lucas (well bred but undesirable)

My personal view of Jane Austen is that she possessed an overwhelming intelligence which, as a woman she was limited as to how she could display it, that is why there is SO MUCH hidden sarcasm and contempt for society in her writing, it was her way of having her say without suffering the consequences. I think that Jane Austen stayed unmarried almost as a protest to the common belief of the time that a spinster woman was worthless. Through this belief comes my feeling that there is a lot of Jane Austen in Elizabeth Bennet - Such a smart, sensible girl who couldnt fathom marrying for money or position, but in a position where a suitable match should be pursued. Jane managed to secure herself respect and a place in society while remaining unmarried - basically laughing at those in her social circle by proving them wrong.

I think Jane's sensibility comes from the fact that her family was very religious. By the mere fact of her religion, and also that Lady Susan was one of her earliest serious works (Written when she was 18-20) I dont see that Jane Austen is putting herself into Lady Susan. If I see any of Jane Austen in a character so far then I see her in Mrs Vernon and while I dont see her as a true reflection, I see her as an ideal - a sensible woman with the type of life Jane may have seen herself comfortable and happy in. 

You have to remember that 'Becoming Jane' is only loosely biographical. Thomas Lefroy and Jane Austen hardly knew each other. They spent two months living in the same area and while they became close and may have fancied the idea of marriage they knew it wouldnt work. They never saw each other ever again! Maybe Jane pined for lost love! She did recieve a marriage proposal which she accepted and then declined as she realised that she accepted only for convenience, this could suggest that the reason she never married was because she was too much of a romantic and POSSIBLY because of pining for Thomas Lefroy.

Now - the idea of Lady Susan and Catherine Vernon being alike, I can see that Catherine may have some tricks up her sleeve to put Lady Susan in her place so they may share a deceptive quality. As a way to give a more visual idea though, I see them kind of like a good witch and a bad witch - I know that descriptive is too strong but I feel that they possess similar qualities but will use them in different ways, they are like polar opposites or Yin and Yang but on a more subtle level.

Cheers

B xxx
 
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« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2008, 04:23:28 pm »

Well yes you could use it as an example but I believe this thread is a bit more intelligent than those magazines.
On the topic of Frederica though I believe she has the intelligence of the situation just fine. She knows what her mother is doing and highly questions it and she has ever right to be upset and against what she is doing.
Her intelligence, although not well in a common situation, is very high in her current spot.

On Jane I luv the chic for secretly expressing herself through her writing, secretly placing her beautiful sarcasm and strong opinions, but I also feel for her there. The poor thing kept her true personality hidden throughout her life maybe only showing a priviliged few. She stood strong for what she believed in and that can be extremely difficult as we all know. Jane's actions are highly cammendable.

As for her realtionships... She could have found love Lefroy even if for only two months. We all must remember love was placed in a different setting back then. The sight of a womans ankle made a man fall hard back then where now nothing is thought of it. Love came a bit quicker back then and even if she didn't love him maybe he was the strongest thing she had ever felt for someone. Maybe she didnt find love but compainship in him.

But I agree on B's view on the idea of Lady Susan and Catherine Vernon being alike. She states it very well and I dont think its to strong of a opinion. Way to go B!



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« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2008, 05:40:43 pm »

Im sorry but I cant not bite while my intelligence gets questioned based on my referals to well known topics to show the relevance of the novel to the current generation - I know that you have an idea of what you want this thread to be and that you helped create it but this is an open forum and I feel that being able to reference well known materials is going to help spark conversations more than referencing obscure topics but if you like I will play that game.

I guess you have read more of the book than I have and that maybe Frederica gets her chance to shine further on but based on the first six letters there is no sign of intelligence in Frederica. A desire to rebel does not imply intelligence, if so is Lydia Bennett intelligent? When I think of Frederica I cant help but think of Laura Wingfield in Tennessee Williams play The Glass Menagerie. While Laura is physically crippled, where Frederica is just uneducated, they both suffer from overbearing mother's who try to live vicariously through them (or live the life of a much younger woman). Laura's mother tries to push suitors onto her much in the way that Lady Susan tries to arrange a marriage for Frederica (again with a man who is already involved with someone else). Both Laura and Frederica's fathers are absent which seems to have pushed their mothers into "mid life crisis" or temporary insanity.
While Tennessee Williams wrote his story long after Jane Austen, his story is Autobiographical - which shows the reality of the situation in Lady Susan.

In a much lesser degree, Catherine Sloper from Henry James' Washington Square is another 'dull' child who is neglected by her only living parent. While the description of the girl is the same she suffers the exact opposite of Frederica being that it is her father who is alive, and while he is disappointed by her, he thwarts her attempts to marry and escape his overbearing attitude.

I do agree however at the idea of Austen and Lefroy possibly falling in love but my current theory (they change every five minutes) is that because Lefroy was dragged out of town without any closure Jane may have never entered into a relationship out of the hope that he would come back to her. If they had ever had the chance to catch up things might have been different. It can really hurt when you are torn apart from someone without knowing how they felt for you and maybe she never got over it.
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« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2008, 05:52:05 pm »

hey guys. i am from vienna in austria but now live in atlanta for a month. i am a huge gilmore girls fan for years and visited the filmset when they filmed the 2nd last episode. i would love to read some books. do you have any ideas for me? shouldnt be the hardest, since i just came and my english isnt perfect but it doesnt have to be too easy. thanks
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« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2008, 07:12:15 pm »

I am so hoping to get a chance to really get into this book in the next week or so.  I have been finishing a couple of other books that I was part way through and didn't want to get started on another whilst they were still going.  But I will jump in on the conversation when I catch up to where you are at.

I have to say I agree with B on her right to reference whatever comes to mind when discussing themes in the book.  Whether you think gossip mags are low brow or not is irrelevant.  They are in fact a part of life and therefore up for discussion when somebody feels a correlation to what is being read here.  In fact I would think it extremely narrow minded if you couldn't make these leaps on occasion.  Also I would hate to think that we are sensoring people's right to think and feel what they do as long as it is not demeaning or disrespectful to another member.

Also for an online forum to work you need to be a little flexible - people will have real life things that take them away from here for a bit, so if they post a little early or a little late, some lenience should be allowed.  Not too mention we have different time zones that are applicable.  It is important to remember that this is a global forum - flexibility is key if its going to be wholly inclusive and successful.

Just my two cents.

 Smiley
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« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2008, 08:56:18 pm »

Oh yes I am extremely sry if I offended you B. I shouldn't be so picky. I want this thread to be somehwere everyone can express their opinion openly and I should not have crushed yours so rudely. I have been trying to do alot lately and I shouldn't get on and pout about such little matters. I acted very immature. I hope you can accept my apology.


Oh and nice reference to Lydia Bennett btw I luved it! She was definetly the rebel in Pride and Prejudice thats for sure.  Cheesy
Do you think Frederica or Lydia orignated from the other?
-Blah- have to go type up another essay now ta ta



Welcome Lauren you kinda caught us at a bad moment but all is well  Cheesy so welcome to the book club we are now reading Lady Susan by Jane Austen and it is fabulous. I would be happy to tell you of some great reads if you tell me if there is anything in particular you like to read such as romance, horror, teen novels, etc. So let me know and if have any questions plz ask. Smiley
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« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2008, 08:30:13 am »

Okay ladies, fighting already.... tut tut... LMAO! Just joking! We're all entitled to our opinions!!!
Wow, we're already nearly finished our second week... so i should really start reading the next section... was so long ago since I read the last bit!!! But as with everyone else, I am very keen to see where Frederica ends up!!!
Anyway, I am off to have dinner!!! Cheesy
C
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« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2008, 05:46:05 pm »

Oh yes I am extremely sry if I offended you B. I shouldn't be so picky. I want this thread to be somehwere everyone can express their opinion openly and I should not have crushed yours so rudely. I have been trying to do alot lately and I shouldn't get on and pout about such little matters. I acted very immature. I hope you can accept my apology.

Oh and nice reference to Lydia Bennett btw I luved it! She was definetly the rebel in Pride and Prejudice thats for sure.  Cheesy
Do you think Frederica or Lydia orignated from the other?



Thats fine I just dont like being censored and to be quite honest I was very offended. You may not realise but the only thing that really offended me was you calling me 'sweetie' in such a patronising, condescending manner. Sometimes you may not mean things to come across the way they do but you have to be careful with text as someone reading it cant see your facial expression or your body language and things can be misinterpreted.

One other thing, probably not the best idea to use 'text speak' when you are saying sorry (not sry)

Anyway, lets not ruin what a good thing we have here and focus on the book at hand. Im glad you liked my Lydia reference. I dont know if Frederica and Lydia are meant to originate from the same person but more from what Jane knew of society and those who are a disgrace to it. I think that most of her characters are just a mish mash of what she saw or read of or was informed of happening in society around her.
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« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2008, 10:17:14 am »

Yes lets focus on the book shall we? So how is everyones reading goin for the next six chapters?
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« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2008, 08:08:27 pm »

Wow, I SO want in on this, but I guess I'm a little behind seeing as I'm supposed to be done the book by now. lol. Um, Lady Susan I just so happen to own though and since I'm an avid reader I betcha I could catch up really quick.

Fredrica DOES seem a lot like Lydia Bennet (intelligence wise at least) at the start of the letters of Lady Susan, but seeing as I've only ever been able to start this novel and never get past the first couple letters, I can't make any more comments yet. Can't wait to catch up though, this sounds fun!

Hey, maybe we'll be like the Jane Austen Book Club and I'll have Hugh Dancy come over to my house and want to read with me and then I'll fall in love with him and blah blah...Okay, maybe that's just in my dreams.  :Smiley

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