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Author Topic: 4.13 - Nag Hammadi is Where They Found the Gnostic Gospels  (Read 86853 times)
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Imy
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« Reply #60 on: December 14, 2007, 04:17:50 pm »

Jess was someone who had problems communicating his feelings, but he did not have any problem spewing his venom at Luke. He took one of Luke's best qualities - wanting to help people he cares about - and twisted it into a negative. I thought it was sad that Luke took it so much to heart and it took Lorelai to remind him that Jess was a messed-up kid. I loved that scene between L & L, with Luke drunk and miserable and Lorelai having a heart-to-heart with him.
Well ok I kinda agree however I think that it was Jess' twisted and confused way of saying that he's sick of being made to feel guilty and that he hates all that he did and that he's sorry. He just can't say that but I know that that is not excuse really.

So what good did it do for Jess to say the three magic words to Rory and then run off? Sure it took guts to say those words to Rory but he didn't follow it up with anything. Did he simply want to tell her for the sake of telling her, not expecting anything to come of it? I partly agree with Imy that there was no continuity in the following episodes, where Rory simply moved on without further mention. But what more could they have done with it? Perhaps she could have told the story to Lane in the following episode, but Jess was gone anyway.
Wait a second I don't think that he didn't expect anything infact I think the opposite he just didn't get any response and he realised why he doesn't say things like that (because when you open up to people you become vulnerable and with Jess' past he doesn't want that because he could get hurt which he did) and he ran away realising that Rory has nothing to say to him when in fact I'm absolutely positive that she plenty to say but was just so shocked just like I was when he said that.
Oh I think they could have done more with that. I think that there are plenty of repercussions of that scene they could have used with Rory. e.g rory could have like got out a book she and Jess liked or perhaps gone to the bridge to think or even to try and talk to Lorelai about it
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« Reply #61 on: December 14, 2007, 04:33:42 pm »

Well ok I kinda agree however I think that it was Jess' twisted and confused way of saying that he's sick of being made to feel guilty and that he hates all that he did and that he's sorry. He just can't say that but I know that that is not excuse really.

I've heard that angle before but i just don't see it. Now, later in the series Jess was clearly appreciative of Luke's help. In this scene, Jess is probably feeling some guilt under the surface but i think his anger was felt towards Liz more than anyone and he was letting it out on Luke. He started by telling Luke that Liz does what she wants and there is no use trying to stop it. He makes it sound matter-of-fact but i think he is hurting over that whole thing with his mom and her latest boyfriend. When Luke persists about it, he lets loose his anger by ripping on Luke. That's how i see it.

I agree they could have done more with the story line between Rory and Jess after the "ILY" scene. Rory didn't have any other romance going on. It would have been preferable to what happened with the married ex-boyfriend later in the season!
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Imy
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« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2007, 04:41:21 pm »

You make a very good point Jim however I think it's kinda a mixture of my angle and yours. Smiley (just because i'm fussy and persnickety like that)!!

oh my gosh yes I think that they could have easily followed up the ILY scene in this episode rather than the whole Dean thing which really really really didn't work I can't express how much it didn't work. I just think that having a rory and jess aftermath in season4 would have been way better. Also in the long-run even after The Real Paul Anka there is still like no real closure between them. Because there was definitly closure between Dean and rory and Rory rejecting Logan's proposal is fairly closure like but Rory and Jess haven't really had a strong statement or conversation or proclamation of their current thoughts and feelings.
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« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2007, 04:50:30 pm »

I think for Rory there was a feeling of closure in season 6 in Philadelphia when she teased Jess with the kiss then backed away. I think that settled it in her mind that she was not going back to Jess and was in a way using him as a fall-back from her Logan difficulties. But for Jess that was no closure; it was only a tease and a headache he didn't need. But not all relationships have clear-cut closure; life just isn't that neat and organized (hey, try saying clear-cut closure 10 times fast). Smiley

There were many paths Rory could have taken in her season 4 love life. Messing around with a married ex-boyfriend was no doubt the least savory. Of course it is possible for a freshman in college not to have any romantic involvement. For the sake of the show maybe she needed something, but that was a poor choice to put it mildly. Maybe Milo wasn't even available, i've never been sure about that. But if he was at least you could say Rory was going back to an ex-boyfriend without a wife! How about that! 
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« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2007, 05:07:46 pm »

(hey, try saying clear-cut closure 10 times fast). Smiley
no and you can't make me aaaaah! lol

yeah I know that not all relationships have clear closure however rory and jess didn't just have any old normal relationship and I think that without closure there is the potential for them to have very similar circumstances and random meetings as they have done already just repeated over and over again.

I think that they could have completely avoided that Dean situation by totally cutting him out once he got married and just say that he and Lindsay moved away and then about 5 months later have a report to say that they got divorced for reasons that had nothing to do with Rory but mainly because they go married really young but perhaps that wasn't an option perhaps Jared had a contract for longer I dunno. I think that should have had Rory go through some like regular dating experiences, I dunno like meeting people at college parties and drunkenly giving away her number like free candy (dirty! lol) and having more awkward first dates perhaps followed by a few second dates I dunno maybe she just needed an Alex or a Max except without all the complications.
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« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2007, 05:18:09 pm »

I don't know how many random meetings Rory and Jess would have, because Jess lives in Philly while Rory is moving around the country on her job. Only possibility i can see is if Jess just happened to be visiting Luke in S.H. while Rory just happened to be there at the same time. Or, at a Java Junkie wedding of course. Smiley

It would have been fun to see Rory have more dating experiences during season 4, although she was not quite ready to drunkenly give out her phone number.  Cheesy She was not very social at all during her freshman year at Yale. She did become more bold, even a bit wild, in the following years, and Logan helped her break out of her shell. But, for example, that episode in season 4 where she is giving a high school student from Chilton a tour of Yale. She comes off like a complete dork! No fun at all, although in a way she was within her Rory character of being introverted and reserved.
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« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2007, 01:33:54 pm »

There were many paths Rory could have taken in her season 4 love life. Messing around with a married ex-boyfriend was no doubt the least savory. Of course it is possible for a freshman in college not to have any romantic involvement. For the sake of the show maybe she needed something, but that was a poor choice to put it mildly. Maybe Milo wasn't even available, i've never been sure about that. But if he was at least you could say Rory was going back to an ex-boyfriend without a wife! How about that!

I think that even if Jess was there; she would still have gone back to Dean and that mainly because of "Jess". I think Rory at that point was very hurt from Jess and needed someone who would make her safe; someone who would treat her right. Actually she did tell Dean at that time "You don't want me to be with someone who doesn't treat me right". And at that time when Jess showed up at Yale Rory acted kind of cold and after that went back to Dean. I believe it was all in the development of the character.

I think Rory sleeping with a married man was a good story line because of the shoke it made. It was unexpected. Only a true writer does write the unexpected. It's funny how Rory is perfect even in her mistakes. She makes them big, shoking and unrepairable.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2007, 01:41:50 pm by SIDNEY » Logged


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« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2007, 04:25:36 pm »

I think Rory sleeping with a married man was a good story line because of the shoke it made. It was unexpected. Only a true writer does write the unexpected. It's funny how Rory is perfect even in her mistakes. She makes them big, shoking and unrepairable.

I don't mind a shocking twist in a story line but this one was too over the top. We saw the growing temptation between Rory and Dean, so their romp in the bed wasn't out of nowhere, but i think it was done more for sensationalism than any sense of who the character was. It's no accident that they slept together in the season finale; ASP loved these shocking twists in finales (see seasons 5 & 6 as well). I don't think she was being true to her character. There should be a limit to what we can expect someone like Rory to do.

I think of this in comparison to Sex & The City, where the main character Carrie had an affair with a married man. It worked much better on that show because, unsavory as it was, it was plausible and created a genuine challenge to the audience about the immoral actions of the character. Carrie on S&TC was in her thirties and was already loose in her sexual activity, not a shy teenage virgin. It felt organic to the story and her character; it was the dark side of her character, but it somehow fit in as she struggled with what she was doing. Rory's action didn't fit in, it stood out and seemed like a cheap soap opera gimmick to me.

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Imy
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« Reply #68 on: December 18, 2007, 10:54:24 am »

I think Rory sleeping with a married man was a good story line because of the shoke it made. It was unexpected. Only a true writer does write the unexpected. It's funny how Rory is perfect even in her mistakes. She makes them big, shoking and unrepairable.

I don't mind a shocking twist in a story line but this one was too over the top. We saw the growing temptation between Rory and Dean, so their romp in the bed wasn't out of nowhere, but i think it was done more for sensationalism than any sense of who the character was. It's no accident that they slept together in the season finale; ASP loved these shocking twists in finales (see seasons 5 & 6 as well). I don't think she was being true to her character. There should be a limit to what we can expect someone like Rory to do.

I think of this in comparison to Sex & The City, where the main character Carrie had an affair with a married man. It worked much better on that show because, unsavory as it was, it was plausible and created a genuine challenge to the audience about the immoral actions of the character. Carrie on S&TC was in her thirties and was already loose in her sexual activity, not a shy teenage virgin. It felt organic to the story and her character; it was the dark side of her character, but it somehow fit in as she struggled with what she was doing. Rory's action didn't fit in, it stood out and seemed like a cheap soap opera gimmick to me.

wow I have never heard that opinion (SIDNEY's opinion) before. You make an interesting point however I agree with Jim and not just because I'm a diehard Literati but because I also think that it was a cheap soap opera gimmick. And that it wasn't true to the 'feel' of Gilmore Girls if that makes sense. And I know that people 'goof' off (this was more than goofing off but just go with the description!) but this was not rational goofing off this was off the charts goofing off and not at all Rory. And I know that people make mistakes and do things that aren't very like them but this was more than just a slip in judgement and I think it was just because the Rory love story was slow and i guess ASP thought that the plot needed a boost but she went for a very negative boost. Ok so I guess that Narcos don't think it was negative and would use the 'but she cheated on dean by kissing Jess which wasn't like her' arguement but they must agree that it was totally irrational and despite the flirting build-up was totally unexpected. Now the close encounter between Rory and Dean earlier that episode was forgiveable but sleeping with a married man and Dean cheating on his flaky but trying wife is just unacceptable and just not right for both their characters I mean forgot Rory's misjudgements what about 'perfect' Dean did that slightly annoying but morally stable character go?
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« Reply #69 on: December 18, 2007, 04:50:13 pm »

...Now the close encounter between Rory and Dean earlier that episode was forgiveable but sleeping with a married man and Dean cheating on his flaky but trying wife is just unacceptable and just not right for both their characters I mean forgot Rory's misjudgements what about 'perfect' Dean did that slightly annoying but morally stable character go?[/color]

The "close encounter" is when Jess should have swooped in, dragging along Lindsay, pushing her at Dean and saying "Remember her? Your WIFE? I'll take over from here."  Cheesy

I think "perfect" Dean went down the toilet around the time he quit school to work multiple jobs so Lindsay could have a townhouse.
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« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2007, 02:37:23 am »

...Now the close encounter between Rory and Dean earlier that episode was forgiveable but sleeping with a married man and Dean cheating on his flaky but trying wife is just unacceptable and just not right for both their characters I mean forgot Rory's misjudgements what about 'perfect' Dean did that slightly annoying but morally stable character go?[/color]

The "close encounter" is when Jess should have swooped in, dragging along Lindsay, pushing her at Dean and saying "Remember her? Your WIFE? I'll take over from here."  Cheesy

I think "perfect" Dean went down the toilet around the time he quit school to work multiple jobs so Lindsay could have a townhouse.
LOL at that first Jess thing!! I totally agree.
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« Reply #71 on: February 29, 2008, 06:19:56 pm »

This is a great episode.  The way it started with Lorelei and Rory cold and Lane waking up from the couch. 

I loved seeing Luke and his family drama.  He's obviously very protective of Liz and doesn't want her to get hurt after what happened with Jimmy and other boyfriends.  Still, it was kind of selfish of him wanting to get rid of TJ after that first meeting.  Yet, it was Jess who didn't want to do that but what he said to Luke was uncalled for.  Making him feel like crap about trying to help family and such.  Lorelei saw Luke in that drunken mess and earlier, she met Liz and was amazed to see how much Liz loved her older brother.  Lorelei's confrontation with Jess was definitely right on the nose.  I like Liz, she's kooky but nice and very loyal to her brother.  I don't think Nicole would've cared for those earrings she made but Lorelei seems to enjoy them. 

Jess saying "I love you" to Rory... wow.  He really needs to sort out his issues.  I recommend watching Ingmar Bergman's Wild Strawberries.
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« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2008, 03:14:51 pm »

I held my breath when jess was about to tell Rory because I KNEW it was coming!

When he walks away from her everytime... Rory looked so frozen, but then shes like why'd he walk away, she COULD have said "Jess! Wait!" or something.

I loved when lorelai was like "Sweetie, Mommy is going to go makeout in the coat closet"  Grin
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« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2008, 05:13:17 pm »

Um, is that how people act when they love someone?  I'm confused
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« Reply #74 on: March 03, 2008, 07:39:26 pm »

im sure a lot of you disagree with this
but IMO Jess is a careless jerk!
the way he barges into stars hollow and automatically starts shining that annoying attitude
with his frown and angry eyebrows always flared Angry
is really mean, and he causes too much drama! :Smiley
i was especially mad when he went off at Luke in this episode
after everything Luke has done for him

i think the only person Jess will show his soft side to is Rory
i thought it was kind of sweet when he told Rory he loves her, but i was glad he left

so yeah
sorry if i put down any of you jess fans out there
but come on you only like him cause you think hes hot
lol
anyone else agree?
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