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Author Topic: 7.15 - I'm a Kayak, Hear Me Roar  (Read 177324 times)
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« Reply #225 on: February 24, 2007, 09:05:58 am »

Well, maybe Mitch's wife being a gold digger keeps him from seeing a potential wife of Logan's any other way. His motives were in no way ulterior, he was very direct about propositioning her to become a member of Team Huntzberger. It's a shame he had to bring business to Logan's birthday dinner, but that's what it was: A negotiation.

Mitch: I want Logan to do what I think is best for him. I tell you, you get him to do it, and I'll set you up anywhere you want to go.

Rory: Huh?

Mitch: And it doesn't have top end there. If you and Logan stay together, we can drag him down the road of life together, and you will become my pupil, to learn the ways of the Dark Side.

Logan: Hey, what'd I miss?

Mitch: Happy Birthday Logan, have some 25-year-old regurgitated papaya!

Rory: *Winking at Logan* Save your appetite, darling, you've still got birthday cake at home.

Mitch: Cake?

Logan: (Playing along hesitantly) Yeah, Rory made me a yellow cake with white icing. I really love it, and I've always wanted one for my birthday.

Mitch: (agog) Yellow Birthday Cake...

Rory: (sweetly) Time to go, Logan. Wouldn't want to miss 'pin the tail on the donkey. Until next time, Mitch.

Mitch: (scared) Next time. (After they leave) It appears the student could be the master...

Outside
Logan: What was that all about?

Rory *rolls eyes, grinning* I'll tell you about it later.


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« Reply #226 on: February 24, 2007, 09:09:25 am »

That's the thing, it's not all about telling his father.  That's only a part of it. 

I think Dani said how I think Logan feels about it best:

Well, I think that's why they spent time in earlier episodes (The Great Stink, for one) showing Logan being truly excited for the sake of the business.  Why they have him being a work dork.  Because it isn't just about his dad.  Logan's found that, probably surprising himself, he does like the work.  He was very excited over the deal when he was talking to Rory about it at her grandparents' house.  And, remember, he went to his dad and pitched the idea, so his original intent was to do it within the umbrella of Huntzberger Publishing.  He jumped ahead without permission, maybe recklessly (I don't know if more experience in the business, like Mitchum has, would have made this setback easier to predict) but I think he jumped because he was so excited about the opportunity.

Up until this point, he's actually been enjoying the business and was excited at the opportunity that maybe he was going to be able to do something new and innovative and the fact that it's not going to happen anymore, that it was in fact a scam, is a huge blow to his self-esteem.  He tried to do something new and different and not only did it not work out, he finds out that the guy who he bought the patent from "played him".  It's probably going to affect the way he thinks he can do the job.  Before, he thought he was really good at it.  A "work dork".  Now, he doesn't know anymore.
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« Reply #227 on: February 24, 2007, 10:46:59 am »

Well, it would be just like the 'new' Logan to think it was all his fault just because his father vetoed it at the start. But business is business, and failures happen.

I agree he must feel like an idiot putting all his eggs in one basket, but I expect his father's role in his developing some perspective on it will be more developmental for Mitch than for Logan.

Dani once said it would be unbalanced for Logan to set his happiness only by his personal life. If all of Logan's professional setbacks are still gaged by Mitch's reaction to them, then he technically hasn't developed that aspect of his life at all. He has enough to worry about right now without being afraid of his father!
« Last Edit: February 24, 2007, 10:50:41 am by lessa » Logged

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« Reply #228 on: February 24, 2007, 11:41:20 am »

But, remember, this is Logan's very first venture that's completely his.  I'm speculating, but I'm guessing Mitchum put him on the account for the other internet company that he had the launch party.  this is the first thing that Logan set out to get because he thought it was something worth pursuing.  And, 25 is still young.  It takes time to get to the point where you can be Lorelai and say to a parent, "I'm really sorry that you're so disappointed in me, and I really wish there was something I can do to fix that, but there probably isn't and I can accept that because I am an adult now and I am proud of who I have become."  It took Lorelai 32 years to get to that point, and she had been independant not only in business but emotionally since she was 17.  And, it wasn't that she didn't care, she just had come to accept that, as far as she could tell, Richard's feelings weren't going to change, and she had to be proud of herself for herself.  This is the first thing that Logan has done that he might feel would be something that could be lauded in the "Huntzberger's only laud achievements" philosophy of life.  Graduating from college?  Could be seen as just what you do, same with going to London.  But, don't take him putting value on Mitchum being proud of him (although I still think it's something he doesn't realize himself) to the extreme that this is the only reason he's devestated or that it's the most important thing about this or going to London.  It makes up a part of it.  Like I said, they've established that his work life is about him, so it takes nothing away from all the growth that London has given him that part of him does care about wanting his father to be proud of him.
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« Reply #229 on: February 24, 2007, 12:03:32 pm »


I thought that it was interesting that what Mr. Hunzburger did to Rory in the resturant (where he got her to agree with him even though she thought he was wrong...or in other words "being Hunzburger'd") was something that Logan has done to Rory a few times. She'll be mad at Logan and when she confronts him by the time they're done talking she totally forgets her side of the argument and agrees with him.

I disagree here.  I'm assuming what your referring to is him convincing her to come back with him after the bridesmaids debacle (though you can correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't think it was the same thing as what happened with Mitchum at all.  He came to her with his side of the story and she believed him but she was still mad at him (in fact, she spent a lot of time punishing him for it) and in the end he is the one who ended up saying that she had a right to be angry and that the way he was acting was screwed up.  And then after the whole Marty incident, he's the one who apologized to her saying that he was acting jealous.  I just don't see where the similarities are.

Well there are more examples then those two.  Such as the little fights Rory and Logan have together, like when Rory was mad at logan for having all of his friends over when she asked if he wanted to "hangout".  They talked about it afterwards and Logan ended the conversation by saying "I'm glad we both agree" leaving Rory with a puzzled look.
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« Reply #230 on: February 24, 2007, 12:11:06 pm »

Did Lorelai get a new jeep?? It's army green and has leather seats, what is going on here!?

It's the same jeep. The seats are the same and for the color, it's just the lighting see:

Season 2:


Season 7:
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« Reply #231 on: February 24, 2007, 12:17:45 pm »

But, remember, this is Logan's very first venture that's completely his.  I'm speculating, but I'm guessing Mitchum put him on the account for the other internet company that he had the launch party.  this is the first thing that Logan set out to get because he thought it was something worth pursuing.  And, 25 is still young.  It takes time to get to the point where you can be Lorelai and say to a parent, "I'm really sorry that you're so disappointed in me, and I really wish there was something I can do to fix that, but there probably isn't and I can accept that because I am an adult now and I am proud of who I have become."  It took Lorelai 32 years to get to that point, and she had been independant not only in business but emotionally since she was 17.  And, it wasn't that she didn't care, she just had come to accept that, as far as she could tell, Richard's feelings weren't going to change, and she had to be proud of herself for herself.  This is the first thing that Logan has done that he might feel would be something that could be lauded in the "Huntzberger's only laud achievements" philosophy of life.  Graduating from college?  Could be seen as just what you do, same with going to London.  But, don't take him putting value on Mitchum being proud of him (although I still think it's something he doesn't realize himself) to the extreme that this is the only reason he's devestated or that it's the most important thing about this or going to London.  It makes up a part of it.  Like I said, they've established that his work life is about him, so it takes nothing away from all the growth that London has given him that part of him does care about wanting his father to be proud of him.


Yes, but instead of taking the Lorelai path and finding his self-worth on his own terms, he is taking the Huntzberger path and doing his work in an environment in which his family can protect him from his more prominent miscalculations -- if he's willing to take the criticism along with the help.

Logan would have to rise above being rocked by his father's opinion of him before he could tie his own shoelaces or accept help from his family. I thought he had already done so, but I recall being seriously annoyed that it was not shown onscreen. I guess I shouldn't be down on the possibility that this could be the scenario that yields an emotionally independent (rich or otherwise) Logan.

But to recap: Did he go to London to be a man or to gain his father's approval? Was he expecting Mitch to open a floodgate of paternal empathy because he was finally playing along? If so, his continuing fear of disappointing his father in the face of his increasing disgust with his father would make sense. And it's still a throwback to Jason.

Also, if he was in London for Mitch, his pursuing another opportunity out from under the umbrella looks more like an escape plan that would earn a mote of approval as he freed himself from Mitch's designs on his life (which are no longer in doubt.) I can understand why he would be so unhappy that his escape is delayed! And why he would risk so much to affect it!
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« Reply #232 on: February 24, 2007, 01:09:04 pm »


Yes, but instead of taking the Lorelai path and finding his self-worth on his own terms, he is taking the Huntzberger path and doing his work in an environment in which his family can protect him from his more prominent miscalculations -- if he's willing to take the criticism along with the help.

Why can't his own terms also be the Huntzberger path?  Why does it have to be either/or?  And, I don't see how that relates to my point that even though she found her own worth away from her family, Lorelai still cared very deeply about the approval of her parents when she was older than Logan (and probably would still appreciate it now) and no one is saying she's not an adult because of a natural deisre for parental approval.

Quote
Logan would have to rise above being rocked by his father's opinion of him before he could tie his own shoelaces or accept help from his family. I thought he had already done so, but I recall being seriously annoyed that it was not shown onscreen. I guess I shouldn't be down on the possibility that this could be the scenario that yields an emotionally independent (rich or otherwise) Logan.

Caring about his father's opinion is a far cry from being "rocked by it."  And, independent people don't give a hoot about their parents being proud of them?  I don't think so.  But, again, can I stress that Logan is still young. And, this is the very first thing that he's done that might have made his dad proud of him as an individual rather than just a commodity of the Huntzberger name.  Give the guy a little time.   I don't think it's at all unnatural or lacking in independence for a 25 year old to simply want his family to be proud of him. 

Quote
But to recap: Did he go to London to be a man or to gain his father's approval? Was he expecting Mitch to open a floodgate of paternal empathy because he was finally playing along? If so, his continuing fear of disappointing his father in the face of his increasing disgust with his father would make sense. And it's still a throwback to Jason.

Again, what's with this big gulf.  You can't be a man unless you don't care about approval from your parents?  Since when?  Are there all these people who don't care what their parents think?  Who, when they achieve something don't think, "That should make dad or mom proud?"  I'd like to meet those people.  And, again, don't take it to the extremes here.  It's not that that's all they care about.  And, I don't think Logan went to London with the express purpose of gaining his father's approval.  But, wanting it doesn't mean he didn't want to be a man.  Although, I still fail to see how wanting your parent to be proud of you = not being a man, anyway.  Who said he wanted a "floodgate of paternal empathy"?  Extremes again.  If I said Logan would appreciate his dad not kicking him in the face (crazy example, not to be taken literally, go with me here) does that = Logan wants his dad to hug and kiss him and shout out in the streets that he loves his son?  Not to me.  So, just a small part of him feeling bad that his dad might see him as a failure or unable to do anything without his help shouldn't equal that his only reason for doing anything is for daddy's approval.

You think part of Luke wouldn't like to know that somewhere, his dad is proud of him?  Or, that his dad might have been proud of him while he was alive?  Or, Luke is an adult and doesn't care?  That when Lorelai graduated from business college, it didn't warm her heart to see her parents there, happy and proud of her?  Should she turn in her grown up card?  (or does she get a pass because she ran away at 16 and did something completely opposite from what her family wanted?)  If Rory wins the Pulitzer one day, are we not supposed to expect her to call Lorelai up all excited, because she knows Lorelai will be happy and proud of her?  And, if Lorelai says, "who cares?" will it be a sign that Rory is still a little girl if she's upset by that reaction, or that she didn't strive to be a journalist for her own sake?  Is Lorelai not an adult because she hesitates to tell her parents about when a relationship fails, because she knows how they'll feel about it, and make her feel bad?  Again, where are these people for which any parental approval meaning nothing is a sign of adulthood?
 
The (again, perfectly natural at any age) desire for your parent to be proud of you isn't consumming Logan.  It isn't the whole of being in London or this business venture.  It's a by product.  It's, "I wanted this to succeed because I believe in it, I'm excited about it, I'm sad and shocked that it hasn't gone through, it's my first failure -and it would have been nice if I could have made my father proud."  Jason never cared about making his dad proud.  He cared about making his dad cringe because he joined the enemy.  But, if that significant difference is ignored and the bare bones of putting any weight on a parent's opinion is what's taken away as why Logan is too much like Jason, then everyone in this show is a Jason.  I bet Richard gave some thought to how Trix would feel the first time he failed at something.

But, if it makes you feel any better, the show hasn't said that Logan cares one iota about his father's opinion as far as this failure goes.  All we know is, he's upset.  Mitchum's opinion being only one of the reasons he's upset is merely my speculation, based on my reading of their dynamic and my feeling that it's a natural and healthy feeling for a son to have.  For all we know, the way it plays out in the show, maybe Logan has just lost all his money (although 3 million is a ridiculously small trust fund for someone of the financial means of the Huntzbergers, from my understanding) and that's the only thing he's upset about.
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« Reply #233 on: February 24, 2007, 01:34:44 pm »


I thought that it was interesting that what Mr. Hunzburger did to Rory in the resturant (where he got her to agree with him even though she thought he was wrong...or in other words "being Hunzburger'd") was something that Logan has done to Rory a few times. She'll be mad at Logan and when she confronts him by the time they're done talking she totally forgets her side of the argument and agrees with him.

I disagree here.  I'm assuming what your referring to is him convincing her to come back with him after the bridesmaids debacle (though you can correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't think it was the same thing as what happened with Mitchum at all.  He came to her with his side of the story and she believed him but she was still mad at him (in fact, she spent a lot of time punishing him for it) and in the end he is the one who ended up saying that she had a right to be angry and that the way he was acting was screwed up.  And then after the whole Marty incident, he's the one who apologized to her saying that he was acting jealous.  I just don't see where the similarities are.

Well there are more examples then those two.  Such as the little fights Rory and Logan have together, like when Rory was mad at logan for having all of his friends over when she asked if he wanted to "hangout".  They talked about it afterwards and Logan ended the conversation by saying "I'm glad we both agree" leaving Rory with a puzzled look.

Again, I disagree.  That instance was a miscommunication and they hadn't even really started dating yet.  And I don't think she was mad that he had his friends over.  I think she was annoyed that the night hadn't turned out as she planned.  And it would have been absurd for her to get mad about it, she was being vague when she was on the phone and she understood that in the end ("I'm never listening to the Branford cereal girls again").  It wasn't a matter of him manipulating her but her seeing the situation for what it really was.

I'm not saying that Logan hasn't made mistakes in their relationship because he has, but I don't believe that he has ever tried to manipulate Rory.  I think one of the things that he likes about her is that she's an independent thinker.  Unlike others she's been with, she hasn't told her that she thinks a certain way just because her mom does or because society thinks she should.  I really think that's part of what sets her apart from other girls to him.  She can think for herself and she can argue her opinion.

Why can't his own terms also be the Huntzberger path?  Why does it have to be either/or?  And, I don't see how that relates to my point that even though she found her own worth away from her family, Lorelai still cared very deeply about the approval of her parents when she was older than Logan (and probably would still appreciate it now) and no one is saying she's not an adult because of a natural deisre for parental approval.

I agree.  I don't see why Logan going his own way means that he has to seperate himself from his family.  I don't see why it has to be one or the other.  I mean, it's possible that he may need time away to get some perspective but I feel like people are going to say he's caving if he decides that working for the HPG in the end "on his own terms".   


Caring about his father's opinion is a far cry from being "rocked by it."  And, independent people don't give a hoot about their parents being proud of them?  I don't think so.  But, again, can I stress that Logan is still young. And, this is the very first thing that he's done that might have made his dad proud of him as an individual rather than just a commodity of the Huntzberger name.  Give the guy a little time.   I don't think it's at all unnatural or lacking in independence for a 25 year old to simply want his family to be proud of him. 

I agree again.  It's human nature to want your parents to be proud of you but like I said before, it's only a small part of the bigger picture.  He wants his father's approval but he also wanted to be proud of himself.  He's only just barely started in the business and he is having to deal with this huge failure.  It's not an out of the ordinary for someone to freak out and lose their confidence because something like that.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2007, 01:48:01 pm by LovesToRead » Logged
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« Reply #234 on: February 24, 2007, 02:11:29 pm »

Why can't his own terms also be the Huntzberger path?  Why does it have to be either/or?  And, I don't see how that relates to my point that even though she found her own worth away from her family, Lorelai still cared very deeply about the approval of her parents when she was older than Logan (and probably would still appreciate it now) and no one is saying she's not an adult because of a natural deisre for parental approval.

It doesn't have to be an either/or if Mitch's opinion of his venture is meaningless to him. Getting a mote of approval from his father seemed to open up his bitterness about his childhood, but having that mote withdrawn is the default in their relationship. Yeah, it hurts, but in what way does it make Mitch's approval something Logan should take one step out of his way to gain?
The point about the Huntzberger path is that his father's approval is the only way to determine whether he's succeeded or failed. There's always someone to catch him if he falls, and there's always someone to bail him out if he screws up, and all it requires is that he care about his father's approval. Define 'independence' again.

Quote
Caring about his father's opinion is a far cry from being "rocked by it."  And, independent people don't give a hoot about their parents being proud of them?  I don't think so.  But, again, can I stress that Logan is still young. And, this is the very first thing that he's done that might have made his dad proud of him as an individual rather than just a commodity of the Huntzberger name.  Give the guy a little time.   I don't think it's at all unnatural or lacking in independence for a 25 year old to simply want his family to be proud of him.

Who are you arguing with, Dani? I was responding to the assertion that his father's approval must have been more important than the money because his family is so rich.
Logan invested a lot of time, money, and effort into his new business, and he made friends with his business partners and prepared to make a flying leap into his independence only to have it blow up in his face, cost him his trust fund, and put him squarely back onto the path his father has planned for him. I don't think Mitch's disappointment in him would even be on his radar (nor should it be: Logan did his best, and that's always something to be proud of.)

Quote
Again, what's with this big gulf.  You can't be a man unless you don't care about approval from your parents?  Since when?  Are there all these people who don't care what their parents think?  Who, when they achieve something don't think, "That should make dad or mom proud?"  I'd like to meet those people.  And, again, don't take it to the extremes here.  It's not that that's all they care about.  And, I don't think Logan went to London with the express purpose of gaining his father's approval.  But, wanting it doesn't mean he didn't want to be a man.  Although, I still fail to see how wanting your parent to be proud of you = not being a man, anyway.  Who said he wanted a "floodgate of paternal empathy"?  Extremes again.  If I said Logan would appreciate his dad not kicking him in the face (crazy example, not to be taken literally, go with me here) does that = Logan wants his dad to hug and kiss him and shout out in the streets that he loves his son?  Not to me.  So, just a small part of him feeling bad that his dad might see him as a failure or unable to do anything without his help shouldn't equal that his only reason for doing anything is for daddy's approval.

It's not a big gulf. For one, rising above his small-minded father's distorted opinion of his nascent accomplishment is not the same as not caring about it. Refusing to back down and return to the London offices just because his investment didn't turn out as well as he'd hoped would be rising above it.
Logan knew he was risking an "I told you so" when he got on this path, I can't see him thinking of Mitch's possible reaction as anything but what's to be expected. His own disappointment, though (for himself, Rory, Nicki, Bobbi, and Philip) would be enough to make anyone cry.


I won't quote the rest, and you make a compelling case. But if Rory called up Lorelai and squealed "I got a Pulitzer!" She wouldn't be worried about how her mother would react if she had to call back a few days later to tell her someone had just played a joke on her. Lorelai would never have doubted Rory's Pulitzer for a second, and would have been shocked to find it wasn't true. (Though for some reason, she withheld a bit of this universal pride when Rory related her accomplishments in taming Logan.)

Mitch didn't dole out any approval over Logan's efforts to do well in London. If he thought Logan was incapable of showing up at work every day without Rory tricking him into doing it, what did he really make of Logan's seemingly successful foray into the internet business? Is it like London, where, knowing Logan, he just can't believe it and he's still waiting to see how he's cheating?

This episode was all about how Logan could see through that kind of phoniness in his father even where Rory couldn't. How much did that birthday dinner really mean to him, anyway? Papaya en flambe! Fade to black as Logan stares at it.
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« Reply #235 on: February 24, 2007, 03:15:08 pm »

To the pictures above... there is no rear view mirror. Haha that is dangerous!
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« Reply #236 on: February 24, 2007, 03:48:40 pm »


It doesn't have to be an either/or if Mitch's opinion of his venture is meaningless to him. Getting a mote of approval from his father seemed to open up his bitterness about his childhood, but having that mote withdrawn is the default in their relationship. Yeah, it hurts, but in what way does it make Mitch's approval something Logan should take one step out of his way to gain?
The point about the Huntzberger path is that his father's approval is the only way to determine whether he's succeeded or failed. There's always someone to catch him if he falls, and there's always someone to bail him out if he screws up, and all it requires is that he care about his father's approval. Define 'independence' again.

I believe very few people in this world are independent like that.  Almost everyone has someone to give them a hand or "bail them out"  Lorelai had Mia for years, and then she had all of Stars Hollow to help her up when she fell, and her middle name is Independence.  And, again, he's not going out of his way, or even one step out of his way to gain Mitchum's approval.  It's simply an added thing to him wanting to have the company because he believes that it's an exciting opportunity.  If my goal is to buy a pair of shoes and an ice cream shop is on the way there, then my being able to get ice cream doesn't require me going out of my way, it's simply a very nice added bonus.  And, taking the Huntzberger path, I can think of a few ways to determine success or failure beyond Mitchum's opinion.  The knowledge that he's done a good job.  The knowledge that his work, his effort, his time helped seal a deal.  That's a measure of success.  A measure that's still there regardless of whether he decided to go after an account on his own or because Mitchum placed him on it.  Just like I'd wager Sookie was proud of her first good culinary success, even if that success came because a teacher at the Culinary Institute of America instructed her to make a souflee, instead of her independantly deciding to do it all on her own.  Because in both cases, Logan and Sookie actually had to do the work themselves.

Quote
Logan invested a lot of time, money, and effort into his new business, and he made friends with his business partners and prepared to make a flying leap into his independence only to have it blow up in his face, cost him his trust fund, and put him squarely back onto the path his father has planned for him. I don't think Mitch's disappointment in him would even be on his radar (nor should it be: Logan did his best, and that's always something to be proud of.)


Well, I don't think it's fully on his radar.  Where would your subconscious be in your radar?  A blip hovering on the edges?  That's where I'd put it.  I'm also not convinced that Logan did it to break away completely from his dad -if that's what you mean by independence.  I think he merely felt that this was too good an opportunity to pass up, not that he was going to form his own company. I can think of a scenario where I would have felt that's what he was doing, but it would require a different conversation between him and Rory in I'd Rather Be in Philadelphia.



Quote
It's not a big gulf. For one, rising above his small-minded father's distorted opinion of his nascent accomplishment is not the same as not caring about it. Refusing to back down and return to the London offices just because his investment didn't turn out as well as he'd hoped would be rising above it.
Logan knew he was risking an "I told you so" when he got on this path, I can't see him thinking of Mitch's possible reaction as anything but what's to be expected. His own disappointment, though (for himself, Rory, Nicki, Bobbi, and Philip) would be enough to make anyone cry.

Sometimes what's expected is one of the hardest things to get over.  It's the reason Lorelai didn't tell Emily about her engagement to Max, because she knew how Emily would make her feel.  And, when Emily did make her feel that way?  It still upset her greatly.  But, yes, I do think his disappointment in himself and for his team, and for how Rory will feel is foremost in his mind.  I think when he left out, he wasn't thinking much of anything except a big sense of "oh, no."  Coherently placing value on what hurt worse was not something he was able to do.  But, somewhere deep down, is an inkling that his dad might see him as someone who can't do anything on his own. It's not consuming him.  It's something he can move past.  And, hopefully he'll have other successes and be able to truly enjoy them.  But, if someone asked, in years ahead, if it bothered him that his dad never saw him as anything but a screw up who needed to be manipulated and whose only skill was an uncanny ordering ability (unless they make Mitchum grow), I can see him saying, "It bothered me for awhile.  Why wouldn't it?  But, I'm not wallowing in it.  I acknowledge that I wish things were different, but I'm focusing on my own personal achievement and that there are others who do have faith in me and are proud of me.  That's more important."  But, again, that's not an attitude I'd expect Logan to have for some time yet.  Before he can move to accepting that his father's approval and pride are things he might not get, he has to acknowledge that he cares about them at all.  And, then, I think a lot of years have to pass to get to that point in a relationship with a parent.


« Last Edit: February 24, 2007, 03:50:34 pm by Dani257 » Logged

 
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« Reply #237 on: February 24, 2007, 04:10:58 pm »

That was my point: That disappointment Mitch will theoretically feel is meaningless and nonsensical, and Logan repairing his relationship with his father should be separate from repairing his staggering professional ambitions. How can it be while Mitch is still making decisions for Logan?

The failure of his first effort should not knock him back onto his father's treadmill (no matter how well he was doing on it,) especially if the venture was his first active attempt to get off of it. Not even if his father's disappointment is so palpable and hurtful that he feels like a complete failure to the Huntzberger name. How much should that really mean to him?
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« Reply #238 on: February 24, 2007, 04:37:06 pm »

I was wondering if anyone else noticed...

If you watched the promo for next week's episode: Will you be my Lorelai Gilmore? If you did, did you notice that Luke is wearing his blue hat that Lorelai gave him in the first season again!!?? I went back and watched it many times to make sure I was right, and I'm pretty sure I am. Check it out here: http://cwtv.com/video/?vid=102

The thing we have been waiting for (sort of) this season is finally happening!! THE HAT IS BACK!! Cheesy
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« Reply #239 on: February 24, 2007, 04:51:57 pm »

That was my point: That disappointment Mitch will theoretically feel is meaningless and nonsensical, and Logan repairing his relationship with his father should be separate from repairing his staggering professional ambitions. How can it be while Mitch is still making decisions for Logan?



I don't know if I feel it should be separate.  I haven't put a lot of thought into it, but reading this, my immediate feeling is, a lot of things in our lives are connected and one thing relates to another.  But, are you looking at this from an outsider's view?  I don't know if this will make sense, but if you were in the story, would you see yourself as Logan's friend, telling him that Mitchum's disappointment should be meaningless, or do you see yourself as walking in Logan's shoes?  Because I think your attitude, which might be a healthy place for Logan to reach (although, I balk at the word meaningless.  That it shouldn't matter as much, I might agree with), is easier to see with a little distance.  Being removed from the situation.  I could see Rory telling him that no matter what his dad says, he should be proud of himself.  Even in the failure.  I can't see Logan fully thinking that, and I'm thinking of it from what I think Logan would feel, not necessarily what he should feel.  If you go back to the end of season 5, when Rory first got the internship with Mitchum, Logan's comment about Rory only being able to disappoint Mitchum if her name was Logan was just a bit too casual for me to think that he didn't work on the pretense that it was simply a joke.

But, I really don't want this story to be about Logan getting away from the father who won't ever appreciate him.  It doesn't seem fitting with the whole show.  I'd like both of them to dance towards reconcilliation.  Just like Lorelai and her parents have the continuous dance.  And, Lane and Mrs. Kim.  And, it could happen if Logan went into business on his own.  But, I don't think it could if Logan ceased to care at all what Mitchum thinks.  Because if that happened, he wouldn't get any joy if Mitchum did ever give an unadulterated, "I'm proud of you."  Which would make Mitchum's growth as a father either meaningless or pretty much bitter because he finally gets it and his son doesn't care.  They may never be close, but any steps forward, I want to mean something.

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