Christopher Hayden / David Sutcliffe Appreciation

[Mike_54]

Chris is one of my favorite characters. I am not saying he is perfect but i like him. He is funny. In general I have always liked the long-term friendship that lasts from childhood to adulthood. Chris knows Lorelai and understands her like no one does. They have so much in common. And of course him being a good-looking guy never hurts. He never really had communication problems unlike you know who.   I don't wish to turn this thread into comprision but i need to say this. Luke and Chris have been in love with Lorelai for a long time but the difference is Chris made his feelings clear and never tried to hide them unlike the pathetic sitiuation Luke was in; eight years without saying a word. The more i think about it, the lousier it seems. Plus Chris never showed any low-self esteem unlike Luke.

I'm sorry, I have to jump in here and interject one thought. I teetered on the fence about Chris until the last ep of Season 6, when I just became a dyed in the wool Chris-hater. Until this point I had found him to be merely an annoying, whiny jerk.

When you know a woman you care about is engaged to someone, and she comes to you because she needs someone to talk to, you DON'T take advantage of her. I don't give a damn what your feelings are, IF you are any kind of gentleman, you don't do that, period. As stupid as Lorelai was to come to him, and yes she had the power to say no (although she was in an extremely vulnerable position), Chris' taking her to bed took him about six fathoms lower than whale dung.

[Tucker]

perhaps they talked for hours beforehand and she told him luke and her broke up ? how is that his fault if she wanted to jump into bed with him?

[SIDNEY]

I'm sorry, I have to jump in here and interject one thought. I teetered on the fence about Chris until the last ep of Season 6, when I just became a dyed in the wool Chris-hater. Until this point I had found him to be merely an annoying, whiny jerk.

I'm sorry, i don't get what you're interjecting about. It seems that you interject the fact that i like him, if you hate the character that's fine but this thread is supposed to be all positive. There is cool place in the unappreciation thread to say everything negative.  Besides i already said he is NOT perfect but tell me one character in the show who is.

When you know a woman you care about is engaged to someone, and she comes to you because she needs someone to talk to, you DON'T take advantage of her. I don't give a damn what your feelings are, IF you are any kind of gentleman, you don't do that, period. As stupid as Lorelai was to come to him, and yes she had the power to say no (although she was in an extremely vulnerable position), Chris' taking her to bed took him about six fathoms lower than whale dung.

We really didn't see what happened between Lorelai knocking on his door and the scene where they are in the same bed. If you say that is not important then i really have to diagree. The details can change everything. And as Tucker said perhaps it'd show us that it was all Lorelai.

[Mike_54]

As for the propriety of Chris' actions... well, if you get it, you get it.

If you don't get it, forget it. It is simply not the way a gentleman behaves.

As for all you Chris lovers... Sorry, I simply forgot we had a "Flyswatters" thread. I stand rebuked.

Although for what it's worth, while it was definitely a Christopher unappreciation post, it was at the same time a David Sutcliffe appreciation. It takes a good actor to make me hate a character (see Louise Fletcher in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, and David definitely does a great job with Chris.

[Dani257]

I think ASP did a disservice to Christopher in how she wrote Partings.  Because I don't think she meant for Partings to be about Christopher's characterization or personality at all.  It was merely about showing that Lorelai would choose to go to him in a desperate and extremely emotional time.  It was about who would Lorelai turn to at that point, and that Lorelai would go so far as to sleep with Christopher.  I also think a lot had more to do with plot and a shocking season ender than character -what could be more shocking (particularly to the overwhelming pro L/L audience) than to see Lorelai in Christopher's bed?  But, she didn't think, or didn't feel it was important, that the audience would only see Lorelai crying in one scene and then waking up in bed, looking pensive in the next. 

I do think the middle is important to whether or not advantage was taken (I can think of a scenario that would not be classified as taking advantage, at least to me) but without seeing that, or actually seeing him take advantage -which means seeing the scene where they actually get to the point of having sex, I can only go by what I believe was ASP's intention of the character.  And, to me, Christopher was never written as an out and out villain.  No character has ever been written with that extreme brush.  That would actually add an element of darkness that I don't think fit the show and I don't think ASP was going for.

[bingbong]

We do have an idea of Christopher's motivation at the end of "Partings". We did not see what happened between Lorelai's arrival at his house and the next morning, but we do know from the episodes in early season 7 that Christopher did not regard it as some wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am one night stand. He regarded it as the start of something new, that he and Lorelai were now back together as a couple. He was the one who wanted their relationship to resume as a loving couple. We don't know exactly why he had that impression, whether Lorelai said or hinted at something, or probably the fact that they had sex automatically meant to him the start of something new. On the other hand, it was Lorelai who regarded that night as a one time mistake and she wanted it to all go away. So, who was being dishonorable? An argument can be made that Lorelai was using Chris, more than the other way around. Lorelai could have gone home alone or gone to see a friend like Sookie or even go see Rory after the break-up with Luke. She chose to show up at Chris' house. She may not have arrived at his house thinking about sex with him, but there is no doubt that at some point during that night she made her own decision as a consenting adult.

Having said all that, i agree completely with Dani that the ending of "Partings" was done for shock value. I think, along with Rory's romp with married Dean, it was the GG's most shamefully sensationalistic plot twist.

[Dani257]

And, interestingly, both Partings and Raincoats and Recipes happened in season finales, which gave the audience months of "Oh no, they didn't!" reaction to deal with.

I have different types of characters that I like.  Christopher fit into the work in progress category. I find characters who start off needing growth fascinating, as long as that growth is shown.  Christopher fit.  He started off being likable (to me) but largely irresponsible and wandering.  And, as the show went on, he gained responsibility and became more stable.  I think occasionally they held him back for plot purposes and that hurt the character- changing just how absent he was in Rory's life (one version he called once a week, later they made a big deal of how he was calling every Wednesday once he started seeing Sherry), or not writing a good reason for his character's absence at Rory's Chilton graduation (couldn't they have given him some highly contagious but ultimately harmless sickness to explain it?).  But, overall, the character of Christoper grew a lot.  I admit (as the people who read the spoiler discussion thread can say) I really expected Christopher's character to be trashed on the altar of L/L.  It wasn't.  They allowed him dignity and gave him some sympathy (I know some people out of this thread disagree).  The Christopher at the end of the series had grown immensely from where he started.

[bingbong]

I’m going to ramble about Chris.

I think his character showed much growth, as Dani pointed out, but it was zig-zag in a typical tv show sort of way, especially because he was a supporting/recurring character. I think the writers utilized him as they saw fit in his relationship with Lorelai and Rory and that made his character at times a bit sketchy for me. I saw this right from the start: The background is that Chris was willing to marry Lorelai when she became pregnant and do the old-fashioned “right thing”, but Lorelai turned him away. In the pilot episode, Richard talks about him as being successful in business on the west coast, going public with some vague Internet company. But by the time he appears in person, he is the guy on the motorcycle who is portrayed as unreliable and immature, Rory yearning for attention he only gives sporadically, and Lorelai is waiting for him to get his act together. So you might say there was a shift in Chris’ character from the moment he appeared, based on what we were previously told.

About Rory’s early upbringing, it has never been clear to me if Lorelai kept Chris away or if he chose to stay away or if it was mutual. But it’s always seemed like Lorelai with Rory against the world, and Lorelai was not inviting Chris in. Perhaps after Lorelai rejected marrying him and ran off to S.H. with Rory, Chris himself realized he was not wanted and went about his own life. Maybe it was their unspoken understanding.

I’ve sometimes had mixed feelings about Chris but he really didn’t do much that made him a bad guy. His detractors love to criticize him for running off to Sherry in “I Can’t Get Started” just as he and Lorelai were about to give it a go (another season finale plot twist). But I’ve always thought he deserved credit for – again- trying to do the right thing. He explained to Lorelai that he wanted to make up for what happened the first time. I personally don’t think he did anything wrong the first time (except being careless enough to get Lorelai pregnant of course), because he was willing to marry Lorelai and be there for her and baby Rory. Did he feel guilty about that whole thing despite his attempt to do right? Was he looking at Sherry’s pregnancy as a second chance to be part of a new family? I think so and I don’t fault him for that.

One big moment for Chris came after Rory had the car accident with Jess. He showed up, became involved, and when Lorelai asked about Sherry, he said that Rory comes first. But even before then he had become a more reliable dad. When Sherry first appeared, she said how Chris never misses his regular phone call to Rory and talks about her constantly.

Although I think Chris’ low point came in season 5 during the “Wedding Bell Blues” mess, even there he had some sympathy about him. I like the scene in that episode where he tells Rory about the first time Lorelai kissed him, the fact that she made the move. He said it was the greatest day of his life. Nice moment.

Although I tended to root for Luke, during season 6 I found myself rooting for Chris during the April mess, when he was the guy on the spot for Lorelai. I thought he came across really well at the Lane/Zach dual weddings, and also the ep where he joined Lorelai to watch Rory’s journalism debate. I never knew the term “shipper” before joining this forum, but I might have been a Lorelai/Chris shipper during this period, when the writers seemed to be saying “Luke is a jerk and Chris is the good guy”. During the “Wedding Bell Blues” mess, when Chris was under Emily’s spell, the message seemed to be the opposite. Or, at the very least, he was a misguided desperate person in need of a reality check.

When Chris and Luke had their gladiator fist-fight in season 7, Chris had more of a legitimate reason to fight. He was the one who was married to Lorelai. Luke had his shot and blew it. If Luke was pissed at anyone it should have been himself, not Chris. 

About Chris not appearing at Rory’s Chilton graduation, i think the writers could have handled it differently and easily allowed his appearance with minimal disruption. The characters could have behaved like grown-ups for a few hours for Rory’s sake.  This was Rory’s big day and they could have obliged her about that. I mean, she is graduating from this hoity-toity school as valedictorian, makes a big ol’ speech, and dad is not there? Instead, the writers did the tv show thing of blurring over it as though his absence was nothing. Rory did not seem to notice or care. Even Emily didn’t seem to give it much thought when Lorelai gave some flimsy excuse.

Chris’ character ended the series on a high note. His final appearance in “Unto the Breach” showed he and Lorelai at a new understanding in their relationship. The marriage didn’t work out but there were no hard feelings and, with Rory as their bond, they could carry on a good relationship. Never mind that the continuity from their failed marriage didn’t add up (when exactly did they decide to happily move on?), it provided a nice finale for Chris and Lorelai. They seemed to come full circle and found a way to be comfortable with each other, free of any soap opera explosion on the horizon.

[Dani257]

I’m going to ramble about Chris.

I think his character showed much growth, as Dani pointed out, but it was zig-zag in a typical tv show sort of way, especially because he was a supporting/recurring character. I think the writers utilized him as they saw fit in his relationship with Lorelai and Rory and that made his character at times a bit sketchy for me. I saw this right from the start: The background is that Chris was willing to marry Lorelai when she became pregnant and do the old-fashioned “right thing”, but Lorelai turned him away. In the pilot episode, Richard talks about him as being successful in business on the west coast, going public with some vague Internet company. But by the time he appears in person, he is the guy on the motorcycle who is portrayed as unreliable and immature, Rory yearning for attention he only gives sporadically, and Lorelai is waiting for him to get his act together. So you might say there was a shift in Chris’ character from the moment he appeared, based on what we were previously told.

I'll probably add more after I read the rest, but I don't think the internet company was a shift in his character.  I think he lied about the company because he was ashamed and didn't want his parents or Lorelai's to think he had failed.  And, Lorelai turning him down when he was willing to marry her still holds.  That story line didn't change.  It's just that after that, he didn't come around that much because he felt left out of their (Lorelai and Rory's) perfect circle and that when he did spend time with Rory, it reminded him of how much he missed her when he wasn't around, so he didn't come around that much because it just made him miss her when he had to leave again -sort of a vicious cycle.

 

His detractors love to criticize him for running off to Sherry in “I Can’t Get Started” just as he and Lorelai were about to give it a go (another season finale plot twist). But I’ve always thought he deserved credit for – again- trying to do the right thing.

I feel the same way.  I really felt this was Christopher being as responsible and adult and people jumped on him because he wasn't staying with Lorelai.  I disagree with staying together for the kids, but even so, Christopher was trying to do the right thing, and at a considerable loss to himself.  I saw him as taking the hard road, because we know that he would much have rather stayed with Lorelai.  I've even seen people criticizing Christopher for Sherry getting pregnant in the first place.  But, Christopher had been in a committed relationship with Sherry, so even if the pregnancy was unexpected, it's not like he was going around having one night stands.  And, this will sound terrible, but if you do subscribe to the idea that children need their parents living in the same house no matter what, I think a young child needs that more than a 16 year old.  There seemed to be an attitude that Gigi should have taken second place, which I disagree with.  (That seemed to coincide with the idea that Sherry was the other woman in the story, when in reality, Lorelai was -Christopher cheated on Sherry with Lorelai, not the other way around)  And, it's not like Christopher was intending to forget all about poor Rory while he played Daddy to his new family.  Even after he went back to Sherry, he kept trying to stay in touch with Rory, and she wouldn't return his calls.  But, he was still trying to be a part of her life, even if he wasn't going to be living with them.

About Chris not appearing at Rory’s Chilton graduation, i think the writers could have handled it differently and easily allowed his appearance with minimal disruption.

Actually, Christopher didn't show up because David Sutcliffe was unavailable.  He was starring in another tv show at the time.  Unfortunately, that unavoidable absence just helped the characterization that some have of Christopher as this person who didn't care about Rory.  That's why I think that since he couldn't be there, they should have made it clear that he didn't have a choice, but would have been there if he could.

[bingbong]

... I really felt this was Christopher being as responsible and adult and people jumped on him because he wasn't staying with Lorelai.  I disagree with staying together for the kids, but even so, Christopher was trying to do the right thing, and at a considerable loss to himself.  I saw him as taking the hard road, because we know that he would much have rather stayed with Lorelai. I've even seen people criticizing Christopher for Sherry getting pregnant in the first place.  But, Christopher had been in a committed relationship with Sherry, so even if the pregnancy was unexpected, it's not like he was going around having one night stands.  And, this will sound terrible, but if you do subscribe to the idea that children need their parents living in the same house no matter what, I think a young child needs that more than a 16 year old.  There seemed to be an attitude that Gigi should have taken second place, which I disagree with.  (That seemed to coincide with the idea that Sherry was the other woman in the story, when in reality, Lorelai was -Christopher cheated on Sherry with Lorelai, not the other way around)  And, it's not like Christopher was intending to forget all about poor Rory while he played Daddy to his new family.  Even after he went back to Sherry, he kept trying to stay in touch with Rory, and she wouldn't return his calls.  But, he was still trying to be a part of her life, even if he wasn't going to be living with them.

The fact that Lorelai did not resent Chris' leaving for Sherry is also a point in his column. She understood where he was coming from and seemed most frustrated over the timing of it all, how fate (or the writers, ha ha) seemed to be against her and Chris. It's also noteworthy that Sherry revealed at the baby shower how she and Chris were having problems and on the verge of breaking up when she became pregnant. It further emphasizes that Chris was ready to leave her for Lorelai, just as he discussed with Lorelai during their night of sex at the inn. It of course does not speak well that Chris did in fact cheat on Sherry, as you pointed out; how interesting that most fans don't pick up on that angle! Sherry has the feel of "the other woman" but in fact that was not the case.

I think what Chris was looking for at this stage more than anything was a family. When he and Lorelai discussed getting back together in "I Can't Get Started" it was factoring in Rory as much as their own relationship. His subsequent conversation with Rory further emphasized that. When he left to go back to Sherry, it was not his first choice but it was with the same idea of being a responsible family man.

Actually, Christopher didn't show up because David Sutcliffe was unavailable.  He was starring in another tv show at the time.  Unfortunately, that unavoidable absence just helped the characterization that some have of Christopher as this person who didn't care about Rory.  That's why I think that since he couldn't be there, they should have made it clear that he didn't have a choice, but would have been there if he could.

Ok, that's a bit of inside info i was not aware of. The other aspect is, with Luke's attendance, it gave the appearance that he was the fill-in dad or guardian or something along those lines, and further emphasized his role in Rory's life over Chris'. But at least the writers didn't take Chris/David's absence and concoct some little story line that estranged him further from L & R.

[SIDNEY]

About Rory’s early upbringing, it has never been clear to me if Lorelai kept Chris away or if he chose to stay away or if it was mutual. But it’s always seemed like Lorelai with Rory against the world, and Lorelai was not inviting Chris in. Perhaps after Lorelai rejected marrying him and ran off to S.H. with Rory, Chris himself realized he was not wanted and went about his own life. Maybe it was their unspoken understanding..

I think you're right. I've alwaysd felt that Chris's lack of apparence is partly because of Lorelai. When he first appeared with his motorcycle;  she seemed annoyed. And used a kind of harsh tone when she told Rory not to take off with her dad on his motorcycle for a short ride, she didn't want to let him sleep on the couch and she spent a lot of time convencing Rory that it's a matter of time before he leaves again, completely ignoring the fact that he did come to SH for the first time for her & Rory and ignoring what everybody was saying about his success in business. And even though she was probably right but she did seem awfuly stuck with the idea that he can't or shouldn't be part of their life but the worst part is that she didn't keep the idea to her self but shared it with Rory as i said.

Rory made a point that was Chris's first time in SH. which makes me wonder where did they used to meet?!!

One big moment for Chris came after Rory had the car accident with Jess. He showed up, became involved, and when Lorelai asked about Sherry, he said that Rory comes first. But even before then he had become a more reliable dad. When Sherry first appeared, she said how Chris never misses his regular phone call to Rory and talks about her constantly.

People always seem to say that Chris wasn't there for Lorelai but Luke always was. They completely ignore the  fact that he doesn't live in SH. and ignoring the fact that everytime Lorelai reached for him he came through to be there for her like the time you mentioned after the car accident with Jess or the coming-out party or even with more simple thing like Lane/Zach wedding. I think Chris always seemed happy when they reached for him because he felt wanted, needed.

When Chris and Luke had their gladiator fist-fight in season 7, Chris had more of a legitimate reason to fight. He was the one who was married to Lorelai. Luke had his shot and blew it. If Luke was pissed at anyone it should have been himself, not Chris.

I think that was the silliest scene in the whole show. After Luke'd known Lorelai slept with Chris; instead of talking to her, he goes to Chris to punch him. Like Chris is the problem. Then what's with the gladiator fight? Like we suddenley moved to the stone age.

[bingbong]

... I've alwaysd felt that Chris's lack of apparence is partly because of Lorelai. When he first appeared with his motorcycle;  she seemed annoyed. And used a kind of harsh tone when she told Rory not to take off with her dad on his motorcycle for a short ride, she didn't want to let him sleep on the couch and she spent a lot of time convencing Rory that it's a matter of time before he leaves again, completely ignoring the fact that he did come to SH for the first time for her & Rory and ignoring what everybody was saying about his success in business. And even though she was probably right but she did seem awfuly stuck with the idea that he can't or shouldn't be part of their life but the worst part is that she didn't keep the idea to her self but shared it with Rory as i said.

Rory made a point that was Chris's first time in SH. which makes me wonder where did they used to meet?!!

I think this speaks to what Dani said about the vicious cycle for Chris, who did not feel welcomed by Lorelai and it only became more difficult for him when he would see them. Also, the fact that Rory was 16 and Chris was making his first visit to S.H. tells how outside their world he was. It was sweet the way Rory proudly showed him around town but you'd think it would have happened earlier in their relationship. As for Lorelai, even in that first episode of Chris' appearance, her feelings are conflicted and she talks about feeling connected with him. There is much tension from both sides (Chris makes that snarky comment about Lorelai's gift of gab being annoying) but there are deeper feelings as well.

People always seem to say that Chris wasn't there for Lorelai but Luke always was. They completely ignore the  fact that he doesn't live in SH. and ignoring the fact that everytime Lorelai reached for him he came through to be there for her like the time you mentioned after the car accident with Jess or the coming-out party or even with more simple thing like Lane/Zach wedding. I think Chris always seemed happy when they reached for him because he felt wanted, needed.

Detractors will also use the fact that Chris lives far from S.H. (whether its CA or Boston) as further proof that he is not much of a dad. But i think this again ties in with the background of him being shut out of L & R's world and not having much choice than to try living his own life. I'm pretty sure in the later seasons he was living in Hartford and that seemed to be a sign of a new level in his relationshp with Rory and possibly with the hopes of being closer (in multiple ways) to Lorelai. He was making hiimself available if needed. Chris' own emotional development was tied to his relationship with Rory. I agree that when Lorelai opened the door to Chris he was always quick to walk through.

[gg crazy]

CHRIS ROCKS!!!!!!! I LOVE HIM AND LORELAI TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    GO CHRIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thevoid99]

When Chris and Luke had their gladiator fist-fight in season 7, Chris had more of a legitimate reason to fight. He was the one who was married to Lorelai. Luke had his shot and blew it. If Luke was pissed at anyone it should have been himself, not Chris. 

Actually, Luke had his own reasons.  He was going through the frustrations that he might not get custody of April.  One fan fiction perspective that I read by Mags got it right.  Luke, having just been through his meeting with lawyer over his custody battle was just frustrated and Chris was just jealous of Luke.  So they both had a reason to fight.  Chris wanted to beat up Luke because Luke had all the things Chris didn't have like a big wedding plan, a remodeled house, and all the things Luke & Lorelai were supposed to have.  Luke, was just angry over his custody issue and the last thing he needed was some smug, preppy-looking guy to kick his ass.  So, it was on.

Yet, neither won.  What Mags suggested was that Luke felt that Chris had already won.  He got Lorelai so why did Chris go after him is what maybe he's trying to figure out. 

I don't think Chris is a villain.  He's a good guy.  He's just not the right person for Lorelai.  Sure, Luke had his flaws yet Chris' flaws outweighed Luke's.  In Virtual Season 8, Chris had only appeared twice.  The first time was when Rory called him just before the holidays as she asked what to get Gigi for Xmas.  The second time was when Rory had quit her job a few months ago and Chris, concerned, wanted to reach out to Rory.  Yet, what he did was go through Lorelai and it didn't sit well with Rory.  Yet, what that episode did was re-establish Rory's relationship with her father.  Luke meanwhile, doesn't seem bothered as much since he knows that Chris is Rory's father and is willing to step aside. 

Chris is an important part and with Season 9 coming on 9/30/08, I think there's more to tell about Chris and his relationship with Lorelai and Rory.  Sure, he and Luke won't hold hands and skip around the block.  Yet, maybe there will be a bit of peace.  Plus, I'm more interested in Chris being the father Rory needed. 

[SIDNEY]

Actually, Luke had his own reasons.  He was going through the frustrations that he might not get custody of April.  One fan fiction perspective that I read by Mags got it right.  Luke, having just been through his meeting with lawyer over his custody battle was just frustrated and Chris was just jealous of Luke.  So they both had a reason to fight.  Chris wanted to beat up Luke because Luke had all the things Chris didn't have like a big wedding plan, a remodeled house, and all the things Luke & Lorelai were supposed to have.  Luke, was just angry over his custody issue and the last thing he needed was some smug, preppy-looking guy to kick his ass.  So, it was on.

I don't agree with you because Luke was angry and frustrated because Chris was with Lorelai, because Chris was always around, and because he knew deep down that Lorelai belonged with Chris. He said so in the super market scene in season 7. It had nothing to do with April. If April was the issue he would have beaten Anna's car, not Chris. Luke made bigger mistakes with Lorelai because he did all his mistakes by choice. Chris didn't have much of a choice with his mistakes because fate was always in the way.

I don't think Chris is a villain.  He's a good guy.  He's just not the right person for Lorelai.  Sure, Luke had his flaws yet Chris' flaws outweighed Luke's.  In Virtual Season 8, Chris had only appeared twice.  The first time was when Rory called him just before the holidays as she asked what to get Gigi for Xmas.  The second time was when Rory had quit her job a few months ago and Chris, concerned, wanted to reach out to Rory.  Yet, what he did was go through Lorelai and it didn't sit well with Rory.  Yet, what that episode did was re-establish Rory's relationship with her father.  Luke meanwhile, doesn't seem bothered as much since he knows that Chris is Rory's father and is willing to step aside. 

Chris is an important part and with Season 9 coming on 9/30/08, I think there's more to tell about Chris and his relationship with Lorelai and Rory.  Sure, he and Luke won't hold hands and skip around the block.  Yet, maybe there will be a bit of peace.  Plus, I'm more interested in Chris being the father Rory needed. 

Here is a flash" there is NO season eight. You can't judge the characters by a fan fiction.