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Author Topic: 3.04 - One's Got Class and the Other One Dyes  (Read 54556 times)
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Sooks
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« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2008, 04:50:53 pm »

As the person above said, I'm so thrilled that Lane was in this episode more! I loved the scenes with her. Especially the one where she's talking to herself, trying to convince herself to go talk to her mom, telling her feet to move! She's a good purple head! Very rock n' roll as Rory says! It's great to see Rory and Lane together - being friends. I really miss her as the seasons progress. And their friendship.

What an ambush! I don't think Lorelai deserved that! She did try to change the subject. Maybe they should be talking to their children about what's appropriate to ask in class and what's not?! Maybe they should be talking to their children about staying out of other people's business?! Maybe they should be teaching their children to be kind and respectful towards others. It seems that they [the other mothers] might just be the ones who need to take a look at how they're raising their children. This episode is a good example of how Lorelai doesn't regret. She looks ahead and not back. She's a great inspiration for single women who may be trying to decide whether or not to keep a child or raise a child or how well they will do or if it's worth it. It totally was for Lorelai! And she's proud of what she's accomplished with Rory...and rightly so!

Luke and Jimmy Buffet...alright, I'll take it. I don't see it really but I love the shirt!! Tongue

The exchange between Luke and Jess - he'll figure it out - he meaning Jess. It's sad that he doesn't just remain single when not with Rory but I guess he's trying to show her something. And Rory is getting flustered by the two of them together. So, maybe Jess's plan is working in some strange way?! I know there's a plan, motivation behind dating Shane, he even says there's nothing there.

This episode had some good moments! But again, I'm lovin' Lane in this one!! Grin
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 04:52:33 pm by Sooks » Logged


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« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2008, 07:09:10 pm »

Mel, i agree that Lane rocks (literally and figuratively) in this great episode. I can't view it without thinking of her eventual breakaway from Mrs. Kim. She's taking one step forward and two steps back, but steps are being taken. Hilarious when Lorelai is at the school and sees Lane running frantically through the street. She's also a trip in the hair-coloring scene with her attempts to divert from the burning in her head and blurting out her love for Dave. Dang, that didn't take long! It took Rory the entire first season with Dean to use the "L" word. Granted, Lane didn't say it to Dave (a wise move), and it's so early i take it more as infatuation., but it's fun watching her burst over a guy.

Shane gets a bad rap around this forum, including the "slut" crack on this thread. I don't blame her because Jess used her in double-duty as a fallback for Rory and to make Rory jealous. I believe Jess when he says he doesn't care about her. But he says they treat each other like dirt, and based on what we see in this episode and others, i don't sense anything bad from Shane's side. We see her kissing Jess. We see them walking arm & arm down the street. When she's talking to him on the phone at the beauty shop, she sounds sweet. When she tells him, "you're such a jerk sometimes and i'm always nice to you" i tend to believe her. Maybe not the "always", but generally. Granted, this is pretty sketchy but that's all we can go by. I feel safe in saying she is not using him to make another guy jealous.

I of course agree with you, Mel, that Lorelai can serve as a great inspiration, as she does for Rory and Lane. The thing is, Lorelai was invited as an example of a "success story." Well, that should include her struggles from her teenage years onward. How does her pregnancy not come up in her story? I think those students asked her pertinent questions. Managing the inn by itself isn't a great success story, it was the journey that got her to that point, all that she overcame. What cracks me up is that Lorelai's prepared speech, what we heard, sounded like a snooze. As if those kids cared about the nuts & bolts of running an inn. Trying to divert their attention by talking about "late check-in"? I don't think so!

I wish we heard Luke's speech. I assume Stepford Deb would have approved the death of his father as part of his diner success story. Unless she thought it was too morbid for the precious kiddies. I'd love to see her reaction if they peppered Luke with questions about Jess!

Wow, last week we had the Stepford-inspired Springsteen family and this week we get the Stepford-inspired Deb and her gang. Scary! The Deb Gang could be the "seedy underbelly" Paris was looking for. I suspect they get along well with Taylor.

Zach & Brian are a great comedy duo. A double-date with another funny duo, Madeline & Louise, would have been a riot (but a short date for Brian).

ZACH: Dude, Brian’s breathing is louder than the song.
BRIAN: I’ve got a deviated septum. All the women in my family and me have it.
ZACH: Well, it’s throwing me off.
LANE: Hold your breath when we’re playing, Brian. There, problem solved. Okay, come on, now, let’s rock. One, two, three –
ZACH: Wait. The bottom line here is that breathing should not be louder than a rock band. Am I right or am I right?

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lessa
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« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2008, 01:40:48 pm »

Heh, I can't see Stepford Moms getting that snooty about sex. Don't they want their kids to get pregnant and settle down early?

I figured it was more of a socialist angle than a conservative one. If I'd been Lorelai, I'd have pointed out that, while I loved my daughter as I loved life, having her so young meant that we both missed out on a lot of things, and there was a lot that I wanted to give her and myself that I couldn't because I got pregnant before finishing school. That if they were committed to parenting instead of a profession, they still needed to cover their bases and make sure they could support themselves before cranking out any dependents, because anything can happen and you need to be ready.

Then I'd go on to say that that's what the Independence was to me, and that I'd had to work twice as hard and twice as fast as everyone else to get to where I was in life while giving my daughter my full attention. Hard work is very important to success. Hard work and the ability to keep going in the face of setbacks. But that no matter how much those kids loved babies, if they wanted independence and success in life, they should secure it for themselves first to make sure that they have everything they wanted to offer a real family. It's not about how well their kid could turn out, it's about being the person they want to be.

It wouldn't have had the same funny consequences with the Donna Reed club, but it might have made a great lead-in for Luke's "never let the jamhands near the napkin supply" speech. XD

I thought the "dye" went really well with the "class" because Lane is a perfect example of how things can change even when everything goes according to plan for the mother or parents. I mean, Lane went against everything she believed in to abort her hair color decision, but until she's ready to face her mother with the truth and face the consequences, she's nowhere near the independence she craves, even about something as small (to everyone but Mrs. Kim) as hair color, let alone something like protected teenage sex. If a kid has his stuff together, complete with a job, a support structure, and a place of his own, parental approval of his decision to "change his hair color" becomes a luxury rather than a necessity.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 01:51:39 pm by lessa » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2008, 06:16:11 pm »

it weird that lorelai knew jess had girl in the apartment. and when we found out luke liked jimmy buffet ha ha!!! Smiley
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« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2008, 07:51:26 pm »

Yeah, me, too. I mean, you can tell Jess knows she knows, and he's wondering how cool she's going to be about it right up until the lecture from Luke starts. Sorry, Jess, it's the mom code.
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« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2008, 10:03:07 pm »

Yeah, as if Jess needed one more reason to resent Lorelai. Not that he expected anything else from her or particularly cared. He probably sees her influence as one of the factors in Rory choosing Dean over him, keeping Rory on a leash the same as she keeps Luke on a leash.

Lessa, you should have been Lorelai's speechwriter. Those are the words of someone whose success is reflected in her philosophy about life. Dean & Lindsay could have benefited from hearing them. Lorelai touched on a few good points but bumbled her way over them in the confusion of the moment.

Lane is just beginning to figure out who she is. She has always known who she is not. Listening to music provided a haven, but playing music provided an actual path to her independence.
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« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2008, 12:40:16 am »

Thanks for the speech cred. Women's rights are my favorite thing, but it's not enough to give someone the right to act rationally. They also need a reason.

Like Lane, she's genuinely afraid of what her mother would do to her if she dyed her hair. Fair enough, since her mother might force her to quit going to public school, forcing her to walk out, forcing her mother to close the door, forcing her to temporarily move in with Lorelai as she explains to her parent-bound bandmates that she'll be homeless, but in Hartford so at least she can make practices, forcing Lorelai to intervene with her mother and capitalize on the fact that Mrs. Kim loves her daughter to open a nonconfrontational dialog, and so on.

Then again, she might not. The point was, Lane is a kid, and she needs her mom to feed her and house her and make sure she survives to majority in accordance with the law. She wants to be honest with her mom (in a sporadic, schizophrenic kind of way,) but open defiance has consequences that might include her being unable to rock, and would definitely include losing her mother's trust and respect, inasmuch as she has them. This way, she doesn't have to choose unless something goes wrong. Or she caves to a Manic Panic ad.

Lorelai's defense of the comical version of my speech suggested that parents should have anticipated the questions the students threw at her. Their disapproval of sex talks and Lorelai's insinuations gave me the impression a lot of their kids were "rocking" without telling them. What's that about, do parents have to just love everything their kid does or lose them? Wups, forgot what I was watching...
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« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2008, 04:12:16 pm »

Ha, i don't doubt some of the S.H. high school students are "rocking" and not all are as G-rated in their physical activities as Rory & Dean have been. I have the impression of a "don't ask, don't tell" non-communication between the teenagers and their parents. In a way, Lorelai's battle with these parents is the battle she had against the Hartford cotillions and other aspects of her own parents life. Lorelai's street cred is about keeping it real, not living in fantasy land. She's had plenty of her own nervous moments over Rory, and Rory has had plenty of her own "don't tell" moments, but there is a kind of understanding between them that puts them in the same orbit. I mean, they had an agreement that Rory would tell Lorelai when she was close to having sex for the first time. Not that it worked out that way in Fast Forwardy Lane, but still, that's quite an agreement to have between a parent and child.
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« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2008, 04:36:36 pm »

Well, darn it if things don't go pear shaped even when you've thought of everything, kept an open mind, and have a good plan, too.

I kind of wondered if Lorelai's awkward dithering on the subject wasn't an artifact from her own rocking days. I mean, she's never been able to talk to her parents about sex for the same reason Lane can't talk to Mrs. Kim about rock. Would it have been the end of the world if her parents had managed to prevent her having sex? Would they be one big happy now if Emily and Richard had said they were fine and offered up their bedroom when they were out of town?

Mrs. Kim never really got a chance to explain why she felt as she did about sex and satanism because Lane never brought it up between them, not the other way around. I know a really determined kid is gonna do what she wants anyway, but Lane can't force her mother to accept her decisions unless she tries. Every important stage in a dream starts with someone saying "you can't do that because _____,"

Lane is only beginning to learn the trouble that lies and evasions and having it both ways can cause, she isn't ready to face her mother because some not-yet-matured part of her really believes her mother doesn't need to know and couldn't help if she did. Yeah, it's a lot like the teenage right to sex.
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« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2008, 04:49:51 pm »

This is a classic episode.  It's funny throughout the entire show except Luke's confrontation with Jess.  

I loved the story of Lane trying to dye her hair and her running around was hilarious.

OMG!!!  "Butch" Danes!!!  That crew-cut, that stupid look in his face.  OMG!!!  LMAO!!!!!  I too would laugh and say "mock me, mock me" if I was Lorelai.  Boy, she talks about teenage pregnancy and gets confronted by the Stepford Wives... oooh scary.  At least Lorelai got to defend herself and such.

I like angry Rory.  The way she acted towards Shane was funny.  Jess is just angry that he's not with Rory and takes it out on Luke about how he's pining for Lorelai.  Thus, Jess' words would lead to Luke to the Great Big Red Monster... Nicole.  
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« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2008, 08:13:51 am »

I kind of wondered if Lorelai's awkward dithering on the subject wasn't an artifact from her own rocking days. I mean, she's never been able to talk to her parents about sex for the same reason Lane can't talk to Mrs. Kim about rock. Would it have been the end of the world if her parents had managed to prevent her having sex? Would they be one big happy now if Emily and Richard had said they were fine and offered up their bedroom when they were out of town?

Mrs. Kim never really got a chance to explain why she felt as she did about sex and satanism because Lane never brought it up between them, not the other way around. I know a really determined kid is gonna do what she wants anyway, but Lane can't force her mother to accept her decisions unless she tries. Every important stage in a dream starts with someone saying "you can't do that because _____,"

Lane is only beginning to learn the trouble that lies and evasions and having it both ways can cause, she isn't ready to face her mother because some not-yet-matured part of her really believes her mother doesn't need to know and couldn't help if she did. Yeah, it's a lot like the teenage right to sex.

Lorelai had no problem with the idea of talking to them about the subject per se, because she began suggesting a get-together over coffee for further discussion and only stumbled when she felt Deb's burning eyes on her. I think she would have been comfortable talking to them, but she would have been careful about what she told those teenagers under any circumstances. She would have given them sound advice, such as you described in your version of her speech, but would have been thoughtful about the way she presented her words.

Ha, i don't know if you were being rhetorical, but according to Lorelai, her problems with her parents started long before the question of sex. She has said she knew she was not suited to her parents world when she was a small child. Perhaps she was over-stating it, but i think she was destined to be at odds with them and find her own way.   

Mrs. Kim was sort of like an officer in the army who gives orders without explaining them and expects them to be carried out without questions. I think it was understood by Lane that Mrs. Kim's literal fundamentalist views on sex and satanism came out of the Bible. With all the Bible study Lane sat through, i'm sure Mrs. Kim pointed out example after example to support her views. 

There are similarities between Lorelai/E&R and Lane/Mrs. Kim, but one difference is that Lorelai, while perhaps not openly rebellious, was not one to shy from speaking her mind and using her quick-witted mouth. Lane was intimidated by Mrs. Kim in a much deeper way and never dared to utter a cross word or speak in a tone that was less than respectful. She had a tougher uphill battle in breaking out of her mom's grip. She had her underground existence in her bedroom but lived in 'round the clock fear of being found out. Lorelai had her own out-the-window underground existence as a teenager but probably did not fear the consequences the way Lane did.
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« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2008, 02:23:16 pm »

If she didn't fear the consequences, why did she run away? Though, I guess not putting up with the consequences isn't quite the same thing. Not really the point, they were both the same age and lying to get away with things your parents won't let you do is both immature and dangerous no matter who your parents are. And let's not forget the strange case of Henry Cho, about whom she had no need to lie, but did so anyway to retain her standoff with Mrs. Kim.

I figure Lane chooses obedience because she isn't ready to walk away like Lorelai did. The band is like her baby, but it's not the kind of commitment (at this stage) that gives her physical independence.

But if she were honest about her needs, straightforward in her requests and firm in her ultimatum, she might not have had to. Pedagogy is not the same as discussion, and Lane had never even considered giving her mother her answer to the restrictions placed on her because she saw her mother as an absolute power with the authority of God. Kids see their parents that way, not adults, irrespective of current age.

Anyway, I saw Lorelai's hemming and hawing as bending over backwards to avoid verbally regretting Rory while trying not to endorse or glorify teen pregnancy. It's exactly the same problem she has discussing it with Emily - she knows she was a wild child who made a lot of stupid mistakes, but she can't or won't drive it into her mother's stubborn skull that even an unintended pregnancy with no father in the picture was better for her than what Emily had intended.

Fortunately, she doesn't have to, since Rory has a way of making herself unregrettable to the people to whom she belongs. Giving Emily a piece of Rory is worth a thousand words.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 02:39:31 pm by lessa » Logged

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« Reply #57 on: July 26, 2008, 12:32:53 pm »

Or... since it's entirely possible I'm completely wrong, how about this?

Mrs. Kim never told Lane how she really felt about rock, she always outsourced it to the bible and her religious community. If Lane had argued, she'd have been referred to the good book, end of story. Likewise, Lorelai. When her parents learned of her prolific habits, they didn't sit her down to discuss risks and her future, they invited a Rabbi, a Preist, and a Minister to dinner to exhort the value of chastity for its own sake. (And now she's gonna have to get the next guy a sweater.)

If that's what you meant, I guess I can totally see it in the Debs. They didn't want to talk to their kids about sex, but they sure as heck didn't want anyone else to do it.
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« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2008, 07:17:26 am »

How could you be completely wrong? You pack enough ideas in one post that would normally fit in two or three.

I can picture Emily cringing at the thought of talking openly to teenaged Lorelai on the subject, and her relief at dumping her dirty work on the clergymen. Emily & Richard were consistent, because they repeated themselves by bringing in a Reverend for Rory when they discovered her activity with Logan. The Gilmore household was secular - did E & R even make incidental references to religious beliefs? - and no wonder Lorelai described the clergy lectures as a joke and opportunity for wise-cracks, while Rory could hardly believe E & R took that route. With Mrs. Kim, religion was integral to everyday life in the household and at least there would be no element of hypocrisy in Lane's eyes. It must have had some resonance for Lane because she, when with Zach, decided to wait until marriage to have sex, and she was stunned to discover it was one lesson from her mom that took root in her psyche.  
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« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2008, 03:06:45 pm »

Yeah, I like that. It was kind of funny that Emily chooses clergy, but sometimes it seems like they're the only ones who care before the consequences come down.

And it's not like she'd had any luck indoctrinating Lorelai with her true religion - the dignity of society and appearances.
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