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1 / Announcements / Re: Heidi's Soapbox: News, Opinions, and Things You Never Wanted to Know on: November 25, 2016, 05:55:18 am
In heaven watching Winter right now  Celebrate Hearts
2  Episode Discussion / Season 4 / Re: 4.02 - The Lorelais' First Day at Yail on: January 31, 2009, 04:26:14 pm
I like the parallel between Rory & Paris in this episode and itís a great point, Sidney, that Paris was being dependent in a roundabout way by going to Yale.  Rory needs her mom like Paris needs Terrance to get settled in the first big day.  Lorelai took it a little further throwing a party for the whole floor but the end result was the same in helping them both to feel as comfortable as possible in their new environment.  I love the moment at the end when Rory confirms to the other girls which is the best coffee place thanks to Lorelai.  Itís a sign that not only will she be okay on her own but that Lorelai can be there for her even when sheís not physically there. 
3 / Announcements / Re: Heidi's Soapbox: News, Opinions, and Things You Never Wanted to Know on: January 07, 2009, 11:58:37 am
MOAR info for you, Heidi Smiley  I logged in this morning using IE7 and had no troubles, all of the threads were loading just fine Celebrate  I logged in just now using IE6 and the pages are loading a little slow but I am able to post.  Hope that helps!
4  Episode Discussion / Season 3 / Re: 3.15 - Face-Off on: October 13, 2008, 08:30:54 am
In this episode it certainly appears that the thrill was in the chase as far as Jess was concerned.  He may have been more interested in getting Rory than actually having her.  That or Lukeís lecture about the proper way to treat a girl like Rory didnít stick.  Lorelai was close to the line when telling him off for not calling Rory as he said he would but that would fall under taking off her fake-face and being straight with him.  Is it possible that Rory really does know Jess isnít the type to kowtow to a schedule?  At this point itís hard to picture them having a conversation to set the guidelines of their relationship with Roryís inability to explain that she does live by a schedule. 

Caryn and Sidney, I couldnít agree more that Rory was annoying in this episode.  Iím sure that she was disappointed in herself for doing what Lorelai advised her not to by being ďthat girlĒ.  I think she would have been regretful for not telling Jess how she really felt even if Lorelai hadnít said anything and her forewarning only made it worse. 

I liked Emily and Trixís resolution.  Their shared moment wasnít cheapened even though Trix went back to being just as nasty as ever towards Emily.  Rather, it fits the Gilmore pattern of emotional progress taking one step forward only to take two back. 

The contrast between Dave/Lane and Rory/Jess is sharp.  Is there anything about Dave Rygalski that isnít perfect for Laneís first official boyfriend?  He might even rival Dean in the first boyfriend department. 
5  Episode Discussion / Season 3 / Re: 3.13 - Dear Emily and Richard on: September 28, 2008, 08:58:59 am
You covered this episode so well, Mel, itís hard to follow!†

Sometimes, I think that what teens go through while they're figuring out who they are and what they want to do with their lives, clouds their vision of their parents and I wonder how much of that vision isn't still with Lorelai today? I'm not saying that Emily and Richard haven't done or said things that hurt and upset Lorelai. For those times, I completely understand where Lorelai is coming from. I came to appreciate their relationship a lot more during this viewing of the episode.

I think the point you make here is important and one of my favorite things about this episode is that we get to see how Lorelaiís relationship with them has grown.† Emily and Richard have both proved Lorelaiís points about them being manipulative and elitist time and time again but we are rarely shown their point of view favorably.† The flashbacks showed us that life back then was very much like their life as we see it.† Emily and Richard were busy attending functions and keeping up appearances, upholding the good Gilmore name.† Their interest is and was in what is best for their family as they see it regardless of anything else.† Itís how they see it that Lorelai takes issue with.† A lot of that stems from being a typical rebellious teenager but I think Lorelai and Christopherís flashback conversation on the stairs is the key as well as Christopherís model Dear John letter.† Emily and Richard never take into consideration what Lorelai wants.†They make all of the decisions because they know whatís best and itís one of the biggest problems Lorelai still has with them.†To a point this is understandable, Lorelai and Christopher were kids but if they were old enough to get pregnant they were old enough to have a say in what happened.† Lorelaiís reasons for running away were that she didnít fit comfortably into that Normal Rockwell painting which resulted in her hating her childhood (exaggerated or not) and she didnít want Rory to be raised the same rigid way.† I think the flashback scenes we were given illustrated that point nicely.†

I also love that Lorelai brings Emily the DVD player at the end of the episode.† While itís too late for apologies on everything else they went through back then and a DVD player is not quite an olive branch it shows that they can keep moving forward.† I also like that it shows Lorelai knows enough about the good sides of Emily to know exactly which DVDs to pick out.
6  Episode Discussion / Season 3 / Re: 3.12 - Lorelai Out of Water on: September 19, 2008, 05:49:59 am
I wonder just how much of Luke asking Nicole out was a result of Lorelai and how much was Jess.† It seems that most of it was Lorelai and even though Jessí comments came first they only meant something when coupled with the fact that Lorelai had a date.† †I also have to wonder if he didnít have in inkling as to why Lorelai was all of the sudden interested in fishing.†The way he half-grilled her about who she was going fishing with seemed to imply that he knew something was up and it wasnít Sookie she had a fishing date with.† By contrast Mrs. Kim would surely never make the mistake of telling someone she was into an activity that she wasnít, sheís so direct about absolutely everything.†

Lessa, my GG dead patch was Season 2 Wink
7  Episode Discussion / Season 3 / Re: 3.11 - I Solemnly Swear on: September 11, 2008, 01:47:32 pm
I think that with Lorelaiís sarcastic answers she did as much damage as she would have with honest, negative answers.† The damage perceived by Emily was the same either way.† At what point do you write off the feelings of the individual who feels hurt.† The fact that each of Lorelaiís answers was draped in sarcasm/attitude speaks volumes about her opinions.† I understand her refusal to lie under oath and that is admirable.† I think she couldíve tried a little harder to make it work favorably, or at least neutrally, for Emily.† ďGee, how much time do you haveĒ in response to being asked to expand on Emilyís reasons isnít even making an effort.† She could have named one or two instances and moved on.† I do agree that Emilyís lawyer would have prepped Lorelai.† I think the lawyer should have been invested in the outcome, the Gilmoreís are paying him/her after all.

Each instance does stem from how Lorelai, Rory and Sookie relate to others.† Sookie and Jackson are an exception in how it ended up because despite their usual bickering, when it comes to the serious stuff they definitely have a couple issues with communication.† When push comes to shove Lorelai comes out with it and so does Rory.† Things went a little too far in each situation but that could also be seen as picking their battles.†
8  Episode Discussion / Season 3 / Re: 3.11 - I Solemnly Swear on: September 10, 2008, 01:59:02 pm
Sookie, Lorelai and Rory all had different degrees of disloyalty here and Sookieís seems to be the least harmful.† Sookieís and Roryís have less of a foundation in reality as well.† It's cute that Jackson automatically knows Sookie cheated/flirted by the few buttery actions she took.

I was reading through some of the comments in this thread and I noticed that the consensus seems to be that Paris believed exactly what Francie said about her and Roryís ďmeetingĒ.† I had the impression that Paris didnít believe what Francie was telling her about how and why the meeting went down.† The evidence was damning in that it confirmed Rory did meet with her in private manner.† That was what Paris took issue with; the actual occurrence of a meeting was the official betrayal.† The friendship betrayal was Rory practically confirming that Paris had a boyfriend.† Maybe Paris can be faulted for believing that part of it except for the fact that Rory did as much as verify it. Rory is still learning about the wonderful world of manipulation but it should have already started to sink in to a point where she wouldnít play right into Francieís hand like that.†

Lorelaiís deposition was of course humorous in the typical Lorelai-rant kind of way but the fact that everything about it would hurt Emily in every way overshadowed the humorous portions.† Lorelai canít really have thought that Emily wouldnít find out how it went.† This seems to be a complete contradiction to the previous episode where Lorelai proved that she has Emilyís back when push comes to shove.† It certainly almost tipped the scales back to neutral in showing that Emily isnít the only one responsible for the constant one step forward two steps back that defines their relationship.† What stands out is the way Emily approached it at the end of the episode, they sort of continued down the path of the two of them airing their grievances without getting into a screaming match.†

All three actions raise the question of what betrayal is exactly and how itís justified.† Sookie saw her non-actions as the worst possible betrayal where until called out Lorelai didnít seem to give hers a second thought even after Rory rationalized how she should handle it.† Rory seems to be the only one who was levelheaded about the cause of her betrayal once she was confronted with it.†
9  Episode Discussion / Season 3 / Re: 3.10 - That'll Do, Pig on: September 04, 2008, 04:56:15 am
Rory pheromones can be a powerful thing.† Iím not sure of the reasoning behind Dean being sincere with Rory.† Maybe heís stuck at stage two: anger.† Iím tempted to say that for now revenge on Jess is the main motivation due to their two confrontations even though the nostalgia factor is very much present for both Rory and Dean.†

I also wonder about Richard standing up for Emily when it comes to Trix.† When we later find out about the letter she wrote to him on his wedding night itís hard to imagine that he wouldnít have responded.† Unless going through with marrying Emily was a response and he figured it was all that was necessary.† To make matters worse he laughs off Trixís nasty comments towards Emily.† Perhaps thatís his coping mechanism.†
10  Episode Discussion / Season 3 / Re: 3.10 - That'll Do, Pig on: September 03, 2008, 07:39:34 am
For me this episode is mostly about the Gilmore women and how they relate to each other.† Trix all the way down to Rory and most importantly the small amount of bonding that occurred between Emily and Lorelai.† It always amazes me how matter of factly Lorelai is able to explain her coping mechanism to Emily as well as how easily Emily accepts it.† She scoffed a little bit at Lorelaiís statement that she even takes a little pleasure out of Emilyís displeasure but it didnít turn into an issue.† Emily channeled her inner Lorelai very well at dinner with Trix.† It also strikes me that despite Lorelai enjoying watching Emily squirm she is supportive which relates to the previous episode when Emily sort of accepted Lorelaiís disappointment at finding out Rory went ahead and applied at Yale.† She actually knew when to leave well enough alone for a change.† Sookie and Lorelaiís quick exchange in the kitchen about over the top perfection for the dinner with Trix matched Emilyís usual preparedness for the woman.†

Rory is at a point where she is literally having her cake (pie) and eating it too.† Sheís learned well from Lorelai that if she doesnít want to hear her motherís comments about her relationships she should just leave her out of the loop.† I think she demonstrated a little bit of this when she didnít care to discuss how she felt about Dean dropping off her things.† Of course Lorelai and Rory are different and Rory does seem to fill her in on everything at the end of the episode but I canít ignore that little lesson she seems to understand a little more each season.† Rory and Emily both find a way to deal with their respective arch enemies head on.† Both Emily and Rory had tried the passive approach of smoothing things over and going with the flow.† Both also seem to have had enough of that tactic and took the aggressive stance for a change.† A little of Lorelai in all of them.† †

I see a similarity in Francie and Dean in that they are being rather sneaky in this episode.† Scheming behind the scenes about staging their respective coups.† †Itís nothing new for Francie but is a new, distasteful, side of Dean.† At the same time itís hard to blame him for wanting to get a little revenge for all of the poking and prodding Jess was responsible for.
11  Episode Discussion / Season 3 / Re: 3.08 - Let the Games Begin on: August 23, 2008, 09:43:49 am
However if he had divulged the interview with the rest of his plan when he so deviously ambushed Rory in the kitchen it would have gone much smoother.† If Rory was true to her word and would have taken the interview just because he asked, she would have succeeded in convincing Lorelai that this was something that would be a good experience for her.

Thatís the course of action Richard would have been best suited taking, laying all of it out for Rory in the kitchen.† I believe Rory would have agreed to it in the same manner that she agreed to the trip.† Rory wouldnít have had the chance to talk Lorelai down in front of Richard.† Just like with the car from Dean.† Lorelai might have let Richard finish his spiel but I donít think there wouldíve been any reasoning with her about what he was saying until well after she put him back in his place and she and Rory were back in SH.† In which case they may not have gone to Yale with Emily and Richard on this trip but would have considered taking a (rescheduled) meeting with the dean of admissions on Lorelaiís terms.†
12  Episode Discussion / Season 3 / Re: 3.08 - Let the Games Begin on: August 21, 2008, 12:40:44 pm
I was thinking about Lukeís lecture as it correlated to his relationship with Jess as opposed to with Rory.† I do agree that Luke gets way too overprotective of Rory and it can be strange.† To be fair, the whole town favors her a bit more than is normal.† Lukeís overprotective nature with her is the motivating factor and as a result, as it relates to Jess, he had to use his new strategy.†

Luke was naive the first time around with Jess.† He wanted to believe that Jess could, and had the desire to, do well in the SH environment.† He thought just getting him out of Lizís house was enough to do the trick and that each talking-to and the simple act of having a good male role model was all it would take for Jess to straighten up.† He said himself that he didnít realize how bad the situation was when he agreed to take Jess on.† He was, and still is in some ways, clueless and didnít know how to parent a troubled teenager.† So the second time around heís trying the structure approach.†

I donít know, Iím not positive that Loreali wouldíve had that reaction had Richard held a pow wow with everyone at dinner.† Richard leaving Lorelai out of the decision to take the trip to Yale was only one of the problems with the situation.† The main problem, and the one it always comes back to, is that Richard has no say in how Rory is raised and doesnít get to make suggestions.† Plus, the fact remains that the words would be coming from Richard which results in Lorelai automatically shutting them out regardless of the approach.† I think she would have reacted similarly to how she reacted when Rory told her that Richard cornered Rory in the kitchen.† If Rory had let her, Lorelai would have marched back into the house and set Richard straight using the same backup she used when it was confirmed that heíd manipulated them.† I think he was right and if heíd approached Lorelai directly she would have shut him down (that doesn't excuse his tactics).† She might have gone to bed with the pamphlets anyway but I think it would have been just a variation of the same struggle getting to that point.
13  Episode Discussion / Season 3 / Re: 3.08 - Let the Games Begin on: August 20, 2008, 01:00:50 pm
I agree that the focus here is Richard but firstÖ

I love that someone steals Kirkís trophy every year, Iíd forgotten about that.†

Lukeís lecture to Jess was fantastic.† It's fun to watch Luke go from being a cheerleader of the Rory/Jess coupling to the paranoid guardian in a matter of minutes.† I imagine that having skipped the formative years of raising a kid itís harder to just let it be as Lorelai was doing at the end of the episode.† Of course, imo, heís justified to be suspicious but nonetheless itís endearing.†

A little happy dance for Deanís continued spinage Dance

I swear Lorelai is the MacGyver of seamstresses.† Okay, what she did with that paper clip isnít all that outstanding but who has a paper clip (among the several other items she had in there to use in a clothing pinch) in her purse?

Richard was on point with every defense he gave Lorelai for doing what he did.† Lorelai (as is confirmed later) is being short sided about Harvard.† And of course the ďcrazyĒ reason Richard spouted about Lorelai not wanting Rory to go to Yale because Richard went there is true (at this point anyway).† Rory had the correct response this time despite Lorelai being right about Richard having motives.† Iím a little surprised that Richard overlooked the fact that Rory would be wiling to take an appointment.† Once she agreed to take the trip to Yale without much reluctance he should have gone for the gold and asked about setting the appointment as well.† I donít think Richard was betraying himself (the upbeat self) when defending his decision, unless I read that wrong lessa.† The two selves arenít mutually exclusive.†

We did have one instance so far which lead to the idea that in another time and place Lorelai was Richardís little girl (unless Iím getting episodes mixed up which does happen) when she called him ďDaddyĒ.† I always interpret that to mean something.† I still find it hard to think of Lorelaiís early years as a hard life.† They werenít perfect or even close to perfect.† I do think that she blocks out the good moments though, however sparse they were.†

I donít mind Richardís mention of Lynnie Lott.† He made his point, she was not the gal for him and didnít hold a candle to Emily, especially in that dress Wink† They could almost (almost, not quite) refer back to this moment later to calm at least one of Emilyís fears.†

I now have to find a way to burn the image of Emily and Richard in compromising positions out of my memory† What
14  Episode Discussion / Season 3 / Re: 3.07 - The Shoot Gilmores, Don't They? on: August 15, 2008, 08:57:03 am
Ha, lessa, the picture I have in my head of a revenge notebook is more Billy Madison themed so itís definitely scary.† I like your version better.

I blame Jacksonís perceived creepiness in this episode on Sookie.† She as much as admitted to phrasing her statement to Jackson as ďso I was talking to Lorelai and she thinks four in four is preposterousĒ.† Thatís not the way to approach the conversation.† When it comes down to it, after a certain extent it isnít any of Lorelaiís business.† Other than providing support to her friend, Jackson was right, she doesnít get a say in the matter.† Again, the way Sookie must have said it to Jackson made it sound like Lorelaiís opinion had changed her mind and the only person that should have an influence on how many kids a couple has and when they do it are the people that make up the couple.† I do think Jackson was avoiding the actual problem by taking it out on Lorelai as vehemently as he did but, imo, Sookie needed to approach that differently and leave Lorelai out of it.†

I thought the horse shot was the R/D relationship.† Now Iím really confused Cheesy

I'd be okay with Luke cooking breakfast but not for the same reasons, Caryn.† I love a good old greasy spoon.

OT: Boy Meets World was a great show (not as good as Wonder Years), Iím not sure how they made it work with that sort of plot either though.† Guy gets girl, guy keeps girl.† Who wants to watch that?† Mr. Feeney mustíve been a big draw Wink
15  Episode Discussion / Season 3 / Re: 3.07 - The Shoot Gilmores, Don't They? on: August 13, 2008, 10:16:27 am
I love the FND exchange in this episode.† Itís easy to forget about, being that itís at the beginning and considering what happens at the end.† Emily actually tried to brighten Lorelaiís mood, picking up the Elizabeth Taylor comment, after she found out that Stanley was ditching her for the dance marathon.† Sure, it was in a total Emily sort of way but it was lighthearted nonetheless.† And then offering to let Lorelai make the asparagus talk, thatís some kind of breakthrough folks.† I love when Emily plays along.†
I think itís interesting that Lorelai and Kirk are feuding so soon after their almost-date.† Perhaps Kirk took a little extra satisfaction out of beating the woman who turned him down, though it sounded like his demeanor was right on par given the descriptions of past dancathons.† Iíve always wondered why his dance partner didnít do the victory lap with him.†
There is so much going on in this episode in the ways of relationships.† Paris and Jamie, Lane and Dave, the official ending of Rory and Dean which leads to the official beginning of Rory and Jess.† Nothing but negative sentiments come to mind with regards to Rory and her predicament so Iíll leave that one alone for now.† Both Paris and Lane were floundering their way through handling a boy that is interested in them (for the right reasons) for almost the first time.† Iíve never thought of Paris as sweet but when Jamieís holding onto her hand I canít think of a better way to describe her.† After she was sure heíd written her off as most boys do, so sure that he was in the revenge notebook (there is something truly frightening about the fact that she has a revenge notebook, which she keeps updated).† Sheís still the in-your-face Paris we love, calling him out for his mistake (which not all women would), but she just seems so helpless as to how to respond to him in this moment that it is sweet.† Similarly Lane, while not as concerning as a revenge notebook of course, had nothing on Dave but a bunch of hung up phone calls.† Like Jamie, Dave showed up when hope of a relationship was faltering.† Any guy who can take Mrs. Kim on like that while simultaneously making plans to meet up with Lane is worth his salt.† Both of these guys are putting themselves out there where neither girl could.†

Sookie is very much like Paris and Lane as far as not having a lot of experience in the relationship department and floundering through dealing with sensitive situations.† I hate to see Sookie and Jackson fighting.† Really fighting not Ďthese turnips are too smallí fighting, the latter is always a good time.† In this situation itís healthy and all but theyíre the rock and itís just not supposed to happen.† If only Sookie could've siphoned a little of Parisí umph a tad earlier and told Jackson her opinion up front instead of framing it as Lorelaiís.† †

A couple of my favorite quotes from this episode that donít have much meaning, they just hit me the right way this week:
Emily (at FND): Nobody likes chicken that much, Lorelai

Luke (in response to Taylor): If he asks for a free cup of coffee, gimpyís going down.
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