Rory's Boyfriends Discussion

[missusmariano]

*kicks something and throws a fit*  I had a long post replying, and I stupidly closed the browser before I hit send.  Okay, lets see if I can give the reader's digest version, because I'm not trying to type all that again.

I would have been so mad that I would've just quit.  You did a good job retyping your thoughts.

In my mind Jess has not been thinking only of Rory for these years they have been apart.  He has gotten a job and friends and probably girlfriends.  However, when Rory showed up, he thought she must want to be with me and dwas willing to jump out there again. 

I don't think it's because Rory's so amazing that no one can forget her.  (I mean there have been a few boys who have passed on her) I liken it to how I feel about everyone I've every loved/crushed on (that hasn't ended with us not talking because we hate each other). I still think about them and like them for whatever reasons AND because I don't see them often, I am able to forget why we aren't together and think about the good things.  So that if I were to meet one of them under the right circumstances again, I might think that everything could be good with us again.

That said, GG is my escape from reality.  One hour a week, 24 (?) weeks a year.  And I like the old Jess and Rory together and want to see their grown up characters find a way to reunite as lovers.   No matter what Rory said about loving stupid Logan  haha

[Liz]

It’s my turn to apologize for my late reply. Sorry!

*kicks something and throws a fit*

Eep.. I thought at first those kicks were meant for me.

I had a long post replying, and I stupidly closed the browser before I hit send.  Okay, lets see if I can give the reader's digest version, because I'm not trying to type all that again.

Aw bummer. I know how that feels.

Okay, about realism, I'm not looking for complete realism, I'm looking for something that allows me to suspend disbelief, and at least let me believe what's happening while I'm watching the show (I can actually make a case for the believability of Lorelai and Rory's relationship, but that's for another thread).  And, I can't suspend disbelief for a lot of things with Rory, and for this thread her power over men. 

I understand your view but what I see is that the other “realities” AS-P offers are just as hard to accept in my mind as the men who can’t get over Rory so I suppose that is why I find it easier to overlook them. To me the whole show is disbelief – even if it is written to try to touch on reality so it makes no difference to me to add one more element (ok 5 more lol) that is unrealistic.

Jess noticing Rory?  I can believe that.  I think we differ in out views of Rory, so that says a lot about who we think would more likely be interested in Rory.  And, as far as your description of a Byronic hero, I agree with some things (meaning in how they fit Jess) and disagree or think there isn't enough info.  I agree that he was a dark (kind of) troublemaker, but I didn't see him at the start being someone with this secret or unconscious (or conscious) desire to be worthy of his life.  I saw someone who just matured into an upstanding man.

Well definitely, yes. But behind the man is a Byronic figure who has matured as well. Jess still has the qualities, although we haven’t been given the chance to explore them since Milo isn’t a regular anymore like we could in seasons 2 and 3 but he’s still Jess. I think he will always have inner battles going on because that’s the way his brain works but I just think now that he has proved to himself that he doesn’t NEED to prove anything – he’s able to live his life without succumbing to them.

But, what kind of girl would you say would interest a Byronic hero.

What a great question. I honestly don’t really know when it comes to the way it was portrayed on GG. I just don’t believe Rory would have been it. I think that there are a lot of people (myself at the top of the list!) who love the thought of the moody, troubled guy falling for a girl that is the only one that can help save him from himself. I whole-heartedly admit I get suckered into that story most times –whether it be television, film or literature – but I know that it is make-believe. When it comes to the real world, I become very cynical and have to accept that that is not how things really happen (hence why I like to watch shows to escape reality).

But, the thing is, even knowing that, doesn't change me not liking it.  And, I don't talk about it because I think it's going to change anything.  I talk because it's a topic that interests me.  And, also annoys me, and I don't get resigned.  I just get more annoyed the worse it gets and talk more (first point of complete unbelievability for me was Rory being valedictorian)

lol Don’t get me started on that either.
I’m truly impressed that you can continue to put your blood pressure up every week knowing the likelihood that you will be aggravated by what occurs. I personally have stopped watching regularly. These Hollywood television producers can only lead me so far before I get frustrated enough to walk away (as much as I do love the characters). But Kudos to your willpower.

But, to get this back to boyfriends, I don't believe in real life that most people would be that hung up on Rory.  However, and this is really sad, the way they destroyed Dean, I can believe that the guy who made his last appearance in Stars Hollow begrudging Luke, would feel that way about a girl he knew in highschool.  His meltdown wasn't realistic in the "exactly like real life sense" -but, despite my writing of realism, that's not what I'm asking for- but once they started him on that path, it would make sense that he would turn out that way.  But, the path that Jess ultimately ended up on doesn't seem to me to be one that someone who can't get over his high school girlfriend would be.  The Jess I saw who came to see Rory with his book was not the type of guy who would still continue to have feelings for Rory.  Not those feelings.  So, it was like a change in personality, when he was still hung up on Rory (who was going to use him) only a few episodes later.  And, whether or not it's how it is, or if tv does it all the time, it still bothers me, and whether or not it's going to happen, I still wish they'd let someone escape from Rory's web.  It was bad enough seeing Dean be who he was, but I think it's worse that they had Jess who's come so far still be that way.  It's like they let him get so far, and have to keep him back in that one way, not for anything but to emphasize that Rory is someone who Cinderella would scream, "Oh, come on!  Her life is sooo ridiculously unbelievable."

I respect your opinion but it looks as though we will have to agree to disagree on a few things. For starters, yes I find it sad that Dean was reduced to what he was in the last of his appearances but I really don’t find it all that hard to believe of his character. He’s not as strong as Jess is. To me, Dean never matured one way or the other. Even after he married Lindsay, I still saw him as the simple high school boy who never really developed. Whether that is all because he couldn’t get over Rory, I don’t know, but, in my eyes, I can see him remembering and wanting to return to how nice things were for him in high school and his pre-Jess; sweet; oh-so wonderful girlfriend of a Rory and therefore got himself down on his hands and knees trying to get her back.
I do think Jess still has feelings for Rory now even if he has come so far in his life. He still knows who believed in him and saw him for what he truly was and saw the ‘special’ in him and I don’t think he’ll ever forget her. But at the same time I don’t see him becoming Dean either. Jess has a spine, he won’t grovel for Rory but I also (because of that Lit in me and probably the one too many 80’s ballads I’ve listened to ) don’t see him being 100% happy in his life without her. If he never did get back with Rory, I can see him being with another girl but it would be his second choice (or at least that’s what I want to and will think).

And, I can agree that Rory didn't go through the emotional steps of dealing with Jess, but I think it's clear at the end of their last episode, that she doesn't feel for Jess the way that she did.  When she pulled back from the kiss, I think it was clear that her feelings were with Logan, and she couldn't go through with anything because she cared about Jess too much as a friend to use him to cheat on Logan when she no longer had any romantic feelings towards Jess.  So, Rory doesn't have those feelings and Jess still does?  Especially since in my mind, he showed no trace of feeling that way when he came back to Stars Hollow to show her his book (and I mean before he knew about  Logan, so I don't think he was putting on a brave face then).  It must be the pheremones.  And, the more they push the pheremones, the more annoyed I get.

Yeah, I wish I had Rory pheremones lol. But about her being ‘over’ Jess. I don’t think she’s in a position emotionally to make that call. I’m not trying to be blind to what happened last Tuesday. I saw what you saw – she pushed him away and told him she was in love with Logan (blech – but yes it happened). But what I’m saying is I don’t think Rory knows herself what she’s feeling/thinking and least of all what she wants romantically. She’s too immature for that. So I believe that since she never fully dealt with the end of the Jess relationship, I don’t think she can say she doesn’t care about him anymore. Now, having said that, I think SHE thinks she loves Logan but in my opinion she is still being led around in a relationship that has no direction. To me, Logan and Rory are just….together. There’s no substance or solidity keeping it that way and Rory is too confused to make any kind of decision whatsoever. Don’t get me started on what I believe are the delusions going on in Logan’s head but needless to say, he doesn’t know either despite the words ‘I love you’ that often come out of his mouth.

P.S. Don’t worry about lumping it all but please let me know if you’d rather end our discussion. I don’t want to annoy you with constant replies. I’ve found our debate interesting and am not looking to spur you on or make you mad.

[Liz]

In my mind Jess has not been thinking only of Rory for these years they have been apart.  He has gotten a job and friends and probably girlfriends.  However, when Rory showed up, he thought she must want to be with me and dwas willing to jump out there again. 

I don't think it's because Rory's so amazing that no one can forget her.  (I mean there have been a few boys who have passed on her) I liken it to how I feel about everyone I've every loved/crushed on (that hasn't ended with us not talking because we hate each other). I still think about them and like them for whatever reasons AND because I don't see them often, I am able to forget why we aren't together and think about the good things.  So that if I were to meet one of them under the right circumstances again, I might think that everything could be good with us again.

That said, GG is my escape from reality.  One hour a week, 24 (?) weeks a year.  And I like the old Jess and Rory together and want to see their grown up characters find a way to reunite as lovers.   No matter what Rory said about loving stupid Logan  haha

Ah, yes yes I like your description. I just finished saying he will never forget Rory but I mean it as you say it. Not that 'she's so wonderful so no one can forget her' but rather, to him I think she meant more to him than just being his girlfriend and he will always have that soft spot for her whenever she re-enters his life. (I think that's what I mean lol)

[Dani257]

But, what kind of girl would you say would interest a Byronic hero.

What a great question. I honestly don’t really know when it comes to the way it was portrayed on GG.

What about just in general?  I don't mean to be unnaturally nosy, I just find it interesting.

I respect your opinion but it looks as though we will have to agree to disagree on a few things. For starters, yes I find it sad that Dean was reduced to what he was in the last of his appearances but I really don’t find it all that hard to believe of his character. He’s not as strong as Jess is. To me, Dean never matured one way or the other. Even after he married Lindsay, I still saw him as the simple high school boy who never really developed. Whether that is all because he couldn’t get over Rory, I don’t know, but, in my eyes, I can see him remembering and wanting to return to how nice things were for him in high school and his pre-Jess; sweet; oh-so wonderful girlfriend of a Rory and therefore got himself down on his hands and knees trying to get her back.

Well, technically, when Dean married Lindsay he really wasn't that far off from being a high school boy.  He was either still, or had just left his teens.  But, the Dean who broke up with Rory at the dance marathon had much more strength and self respect than the guy who left the show.  And, the Dean who attacked Luke went beyond just wishful remberence of how nice things were.  I can't imagine any kind of happy or productive future for that Dean.  They could have salvaged it, though.  I mean, take the adultery.  I mentioned this in one of the episode threads, (and maybe here, it's hard to remember) that when Rory and Dean got back together, it was through a lot of old feelings.  They were remembering their high school days and reverting back to them.  Rory even seemed more childish "He was my boyfriend first!"  But, even though what they did was terrible, I think that they could have brought something out of it.  Even if they left it off with Dean leaving Rory at the Yale party at her grandparents.  Both of them could have realized that they were living off the past, not forging a new relationship, and that wasn't possible. Dean leaving, Rory not going after him.  It was sad, but it was like them finally waking up to the truth.  You could even imagine him going home and doing whatever guys do when they deal with a situation like that. Why, oh, why did AS-P have to add that final appearance with Dean and Luke, where Dean seemed like someone who wanted everyone else to be miserable and who wanted to actively destroy anyone's happiness.  She really could have given Dean some dignity when he left. 


Also, I would like to see Rory and one of her exes just be good friends.  To show that it can happen.  And, out of all of her boyfriends, I see that happening with Jess more than anyone.  And, I like them better as friends.  I like Jess and occasionally I like Rory, but one or the other always seems (in my mind) to not be at their best when anything romantic is in the mix.  Before they got together, they both treated Dean terribly.  And, Rory wasn't too great to Jess either.  And, after they got together, Jess wasn't really that good of a boyfriend, and Rory had her moments of not being a good girlfriend (Swan Song, I think that's the name, comes to mind).  And, now, Jess has matured, but think about Rory.  I'm sure she came to Philadelphia to see his opening, but I think the idea of cheating on Logan was somewhere in her mind, even if it just came up when Jess started to kiss her.  To me, they both come off at their best with each other when both of them are going on the understanding that they're friends.  Like their last two episodes together.  When Jess came with his book, they just seemed so comfortable and natural and nice.  But, this last episode was just painfully (for me) awkward.  I don't just mean the kiss.  The way Rory stood when Jess first noticed her and they started talking.  I was thinking, "Straighten up! (although that might have more to do with Alexis' posture -sorry, people, but she's a sloucher), stop fidgetting.  And, could your reading of that line be any more awkward?"  So part of the reason I don't want them back together is that I've never liked it when they were.  I don't have any good memories of them in the boyfriend/girlfriend state that others might have which would make me want them to be together the way a Jess/Rory shipper might want.

P.S. Don’t worry about lumping it all but please let me know if you’d rather end our discussion. I don’t want to annoy you with constant replies. I’ve found our debate interesting and am not looking to spur you on or make you mad.

Don't worry, I might have to ask you if you want to stop.  I can talk a subject to death, and just when you think there's nothing more to say, I can find another angle.  I just love debating an issue and can go on and on and on.  So, if you ever get tired, just say the word.

[rorylovesjess]

Here I go: LOGAN IS A TOTAL SPOILED RICH BOY WITH A PERSONALITY LIKE POISIONED HONEY AND ONLY ONE THING ON HIS MIND, Dean is a cheater and just kind of boring, and Jess is attractive, interesting, intimidatiing, deep, and downright perfect for Rory. Plus, he has always loved her unconditionally and never strayed. Which one? HMMMM... it rhymes with Tess!

[irish_gilmore_girl]

i dont like dean he seems so posesive and jess was just a bit mad dont know much about logan yet i'm only at the part where she has met him but i'll get back to you all and let you know what i think!
in all no one is yet good enough for rory!

[blaqamex]

I was still umming and ahhing about Logan until today. Through out Season 5 and the first 10 episdoe of Season 6 I wasn't sure what I felt about Logan. But now I don't THINK that I like him ...oh no..I KNOW that I like him for Rory. I think he's a great guy..far from perfect but definitely a potential life long partner/companion for Rory.
I guess I've been like a protective father with my arms cross watching, waiting and snarling over this Logan..but I think he's alright. In fact I think he's great. He can definitely stand toe to toe with Rory.

[kkfly]

I'm curious to see who you all think Rory should be with and who you think is best for her.

Jess is such a hottie! If he could just get his atitude straight he'd be PERFECT for Rory!!!
He's way cuter than Dean, and a little more down-to-earth than Logan.
I love his confidence!

[pmb]

Who do u think is the hotter Dean or Jess 

[Kukalaka]

pmb, you can discuss this topic in the Rory's Boyfriends Discussion Thread.

[Midnight]

Here I go: LOGAN IS A TOTAL SPOILED RICH BOY WITH A PERSONALITY LIKE POISIONED HONEY AND ONLY ONE THING ON HIS MIND, Dean is a cheater and just kind of boring, and Jess is attractive, interesting, intimidatiing, deep, and downright perfect for Rory. Plus, he has always loved her unconditionally and never strayed. Which one? HMMMM... it rhymes with Tess!

I'd have to disagree. I thought Jess was unbelieavly rude to her at times. He was inconsiderate to Lorelai, got upset at Rory when she didn't want to have sex, simply left her without notice around the time of her graduation, got her in a car accident. So for the never strayed part, I would definitely disagree. Plus, Rory herself even said it, when he asked that night when he randomly came to her dorm room window

"Only say no if you really don't want to be with me" (I think thats what it was!)
"No"

[nikki]

While I understand and respect that it's just someone's opinion, I get a little sad when someone's justification for a guy being boyfriend-worthy (and no I don't mean worthy of Rory or not, just boyfriend worthy in general) is that he is hot.  I worry that they will end up in unhealthy relationships just because a boy is hot.  But I know there's nothing I can really do about that.

I'd have to disagree. I thought Jess was unbelieavly rude to her at times. He was inconsiderate to Lorelai, got upset at Rory when she didn't want to have sex, simply left her without notice around the time of her graduation, got her in a car accident. So for the never strayed part, I would definitely disagree. Plus, Rory herself even said it, when he asked that night when he randomly came to her dorm room window

"Only say no if you really don't want to be with me" (I think thats what it was!)
"No"

I never got the feeling that Jess got upset at Rory for not having sex with her.  I definitely think that's what Rory thought was going on, and of course what Dean thought.  But I always saw it this way:  Jess found out he wasn't going to graduate.  He was going to have to admit to his girlfriend that he couldn't get prom tickets because he wasn't going to graduate.  He knew that would disappoint her.  He knew that graduating was important to Luke and that he would disappoint him - the only adult who actually stuck with him and loved him no matter what crap he pulled.  He felt like a major grade-A loser.

So he took some comfort in her arms and things escalated - possibly because he wanted to forget his troubles.  Rory stopped him, and he felt like an even bigger loser partially because he felt rejected and partially because he probably felt like a jerk.  So he huffed off.

And I think this loser feeling is why he left without telling her.

I'm not saying any of this was right, but I think it makes sense.  Not only does it explain his behavior but makes it forgivable in my opinion.

[missusmariano]

I'd have to disagree. I thought Jess was unbelieavly rude to her at times. He was inconsiderate to Lorelai, got upset at Rory when she didn't want to have sex, simply left her without notice around the time of her graduation, got her in a car accident. So for the never strayed part, I would definitely disagree. Plus, Rory herself even said it, when he asked that night when he randomly came to her dorm room window

"Only say no if you really don't want to be with me" (I think thats what it was!)
"No"

I never got the feeling that Jess got upset at Rory for not having sex with her.  I definitely think that's what Rory thought was going on, and of course what Dean thought.  But I always saw it this way:  Jess found out he wasn't going to graduate.  He was going to have to admit to his girlfriend that he couldn't get prom tickets because he wasn't going to graduate.  He knew that would disappoint her.  He knew that graduating was important to Luke and that he would disappoint him - the only adult who actually stuck with him and loved him no matter what crap he pulled.  He felt like a major grade-A loser.

So he took some comfort in her arms and things escalated - possibly because he wanted to forget his troubles.  Rory stopped him, and he felt like an even bigger loser partially because he felt rejected and partially because he probably felt like a jerk.  So he huffed off.

And I think this loser feeling is why he left without telling her.

I'm not saying any of this was right, but I think it makes sense.  Not only does it explain his behavior but makes it forgivable in my opion.

Oh I totally agree.  People keep saying that Jess was bad because he didn't accept Rory saying she didn't want to sleep with him and I'm like "WHEN?" 
That's not what happened.  He was having the worst time and not handling things the healthy way (like young Jess did).  He would never force himself on her.  Rory thought it was her that he was mad at but it wasn't. Of course he said this (JESS: You didn't do anything. Rory. . . ) but only after she left the room.  Poor boy needs a communication class or two.  But he loved and respected Rory.

[Dani257]

While I understand and respect that it's just someone's opinion, I get a little sad when someone's justification for a guy being boyfriend-worthy (and no I don't mean worthy of Rory or not, just boyfriend worthy in general) is that he is hot.

I feel the same way.

I never got the feeling that Jess got upset at Rory for not having sex with her.  I definitely think that's what Rory thought was going on, and of course what Dean thought.  But I always saw it this way:  Jess found out he wasn't going to graduate.  He was going to have to admit to his girlfriend that he couldn't get prom tickets because he wasn't going to graduate.  He knew that would disappoint her.  He knew that graduating was important to Luke and that he would disappoint him - the only adult who actually stuck with him and loved him no matter what crap he pulled.  He felt like a major grade-A loser.

So he took some comfort in her arms and things escalated - possibly because he wanted to forget his troubles.  Rory stopped him, and he felt like an even bigger loser partially because he felt rejected and partially because he probably felt like a jerk.  So he huffed off.

And I think this loser feeling is why he left without telling her.

I'm not saying any of this was right, but I think it makes sense.  Not only does it explain his behavior but makes it forgivable in my opion.

That's how I always saw it.  And, I honestly thought that the whole fight thing was contrived.  It's been awhile since I've seen it, but I thought the way Rory acted was out of character and just designed so that Dean would overreact.  Because from past behavior, I don't think Dean would fight unless he thought Rory had actually been attacked or hurt, and Jess fights with words.  If Rory had just looked upset or mad, I think Dean would have argued with Jess, but not fought.

[rorylovesjess]

Here I go: LOGAN IS A TOTAL SPOILED RICH BOY WITH A PERSONALITY LIKE POISIONED HONEY AND ONLY ONE THING ON HIS MIND, Dean is a cheater and just kind of boring, and Jess is attractive, interesting, intimidatiing, deep, and downright perfect for Rory. Plus, he has always loved her unconditionally and never strayed. Which one? HMMMM... it rhymes with Tess!

I'd have to disagree. I thought Jess was unbelieavly rude to her at times. He was inconsiderate to Lorelai, got upset at Rory when she didn't want to have sex, simply left her without notice around the time of her graduation, got her in a car accident. So for the never strayed part, I would definitely disagree. Plus, Rory herself even said it, when he asked that night when he randomly came to her dorm room window

"Only say no if you really don't want to be with me" (I think thats what it was!)
"No"

Yes Jess was rude...but that was just a sideffect of his intresting/exciting  personality . He wouldn't be Jess without throwing a few insults around. And he never meant to be rude to Rory, he just wasn't all that swell when it came to talking about feelings. And he NEVER tried to force her to have sex he thought she wanted it too and she did, just not there...which i totally understand. Santa Claus could have come down that chimney. And I know he shouldn't have left Rory like he did but hey Logans no better. "Bridesmaid Revisited" ring a bell? Oh and for the car accident? Rory wasnt even upset about that so why should you be?! Geez.   But I'm sorry I got all crazy with the capitilized letters up there, I don't mean to be mean