Fans over 30

[wmushell]

Lori, I love that you "Gilmored" a movie with your daughter!  I haven't seen Step Up, but maybe I'll "netflix" it based on your recommendation.

Okay, I came here to rant a little bit.  A younger member actually posted a topic entitled "Gilmore Girls - stop being so smart!" or something to that regard.  The main point being there were too many smart characters on the show.  As a teacher, this makes me crazy!  It is so frustrating when being intelligent is considered "uncool".  I was probably way less diplomatic than usual in my responses, which I do feel a twinge of guilt about.  However, the thread really bothered me!  Especially since all of the literary and political references make the show so great.  Scott Patterson said on the season 1 dvd extras that Gilmore Girls is an educated person's dream.  I agree.  Anyhow, this same person said in the Jess unappreciation thread "Who cares if Jess treats Rory bad and is wrong for her?".  Oh boy.   I'm afraid I didn't hold my tongue on that one either! 
    Thanks for listening.  Rant over.

[Loridhhp]

Hey Michelle! You can't netflix the movie Step Up yet because it is in the theaters right now (unless you live in another country besides the U.S. and it hasn't been released there) so all the afore mentioned "Gilmoring" happened live in the theater! I KNOW my daughter and I were getting eyeballed by people around us for our juvenile excitement! Or maybe the crazy mother was! Hey my motto is" If you're happy and you know it clap, flap, high five, or do some other thoroughly embarrassing thing to show your glee!"
Also, if being smart is uncool then I'm the biggest DORK of all! I'm pretty intellegent and I've never been cool. That's why I like GG so much. Not only is it witty and entertaining, I LIKE having my brain cells challenged! It's what keeps you from going senile! Hahaha! Have a great day!

[Dani257]

What to do, what to do.  Respond to the question of catch phrases or too many smart characters?  Since you know either response is going to be long, and both together will be a length to make babies cry and grown men call for mama.  Er, I'll do them in order, and since the deja vu came first:

I think when plots are repeated too many times without significant variation (since what plot is ever original anymore?) in how they're told, that could be lazy writing.  Or, simply that sooner or later, even the best writers run out of ideas for the same characters.  However, I think catchphrases are realistic.  Dialogue is one way we get characterization.  People use the same jokes, the same types of phrases.  And, I don't really consider things like Lorelai and Rory making references to Lorelai going to hell a catchphrase.  To me, a catchphrase is something that a character says at least once an episode.  I like to forget 70's and 80's tv exists, but for the sake of the example, "kiss my grits"  *shudder*  That's going to loop through my head all night.  To me, something like that is much more artificial than the repeats of anything said by characters on Gilmore Girls, because I don't get the feeling that any phrase they say is a schtick (sp), or something that's an easy marker for the character.  Also, I think we have to remember that the show is being told in one voice.  Ultimately (up until this new season) the show is in ASP's voice.  But, like all writers, she just has multiple personalities.  Still, even with those personalities (I mean the characters) they share her stamp.  Which is why GG's has its own style, and why some people can tell an ASP episode from a DP episode or episodes written by other writers (and since she has final say, it's still her voice).  I'd guess anything that gets repeated, especially if done by more than one character (or more than characters who would be likely to pick up on each other's language -like Lorelai and Rory would) might be just that we're hearing something more of ASP's voice.  But, I think the show does enough that even though it's her voice, everyone sounds unique.

Me shall tackle the idea of too many smart characters in a later post. (Unless after I hit post I see this one is shorter than I thought, then I'll edit.)

[wmushell]

Dani, I love your posts. You rock.  Thank you so much for eloquently putting into words everything I was feeling about the "smart" thread, but was too tired to communicate properly.  I just read your posts over there and I thought they were perfect.  And they were so much more diplomatic than mine!  Really, that whole thread should probably be merged into the April unappreciation topic, since it seems that what it's really about.

Also, I enjoyed your thoughts on the deja-vu topic.  Very good point about the show being in ASP's voice.  Now that I've heard her speak several times (through the magic of the internet!), I can actually hear her saying the girls' lines.  I can't wait to see if you post about the "too many smart characters" subject here as well!

Lori, I laughed out loud that your movie experience was at a theater!  I was, indeed, picturing you and your daughter sitting on a couch with the buttery popcorn.  The fact that it was in a theater makes it even more of a Lorelai/Rory moment!  Your daughter will always remember it.  Also, thanks for your support to my rant!  Us smart girls need to stick together!

[Dani257]

I was pathetically just waiting for someone to post so that I could give my thoughts on the smart characters without a too long post (or succumb to the temptation to double post )

First, I love smart characters.  I'd want as many smart characters as possible.  The majority (with some exceptions) of characters I like fall into two categories.  The studious geeks (and geeks are cool!  Geeks rock!) and the arrogant -insert unladylike descriptor of your choice.  And, heck, the arrogant characters are all geniuses, too or their arrogance would be even more insufferable than arrogance normally is. 

Like I said in the too smart thread itself, one reason I like how the show has smart characters is, they're all very different and have different mental strengths.  It would have been so easy to just make stereotypical nerds.  They could have even have given them a subject as a specialty (the math character, the English character, the science character) and considered that diverse, but they went deeper.

And, one thing I love, although this is more about education than characters, is that there isn't a message that if you're not in college you're not intelligent or you can't succeed.  You have people like Rory and Paris who are the school type and will succeed that way.  You have Lane, who chose not to attend college, and isn't portrayed as a dummy.  Same with Jess.  The adults have reached success and are all articulate and intelligent people (for the most part) with various degrees and types of learning.

And, frankly, I think dumb characters are only good for comic relief anyway.  Since I doubt they'd go for a sincere storyline of a person struggling with their lack of intelligence and the trauma of being teased for it.  That might make for an interesting story, but since it's not the type I see happening, dumb characters would pretty much be fodder for "dumb blonde" (or brown, black or red) jokes.  Not what I consider entertaining.

[kilverstone]

Just as there are smart and not smart characters there are also smart and not so smart posters. I have discovered that by expressing my  opinions with some of the members here I get the snark stick or whatever the h*** they call it. Seriously could we just eliminate the practice of pretty sticking/snarking already? Sorry that's all I'm going to say on that.

On the note about smart characters though I agree Dani that the range of characters on GG is part of its charm. The intelligence and wit of these characters is what makes the chemistry of the show so good and so much fun to watch. I also appreciate the fact that all of the characters come from such different backgrounds and experiences and are all intelligent or smart in their own way. Lane and Lorelai didn't go the typical route through college but are both bright, intelligent and well spoken women, I love that! I would hate for GG to ever be "dumbed down" just because someone thinks it is "uncool" to be smart.

Lori, I laughed so hard about your Lorelai/Rory moment in the theater with your daughter, that's so neat. It's great that you two have such a loving relationship and can share something.

[MasBYUgal]

Okay after reading this past page, I think I am going to start posting here.  I love reading the intelligent conversation that is occuring here.  Also after gazing apon the new threads, I don't exactly fit into the Younger Fans thread and I'm not i nmy 30s yet -- but I really don't feel like creating a 20 - somethings thread, because I'm not the kind of person that needs to create a click to feel like I belong or am wanted.

I have not seen the thread about the intelligence of GG, that's insane.  If I posted there they would probably get mad at me, like they did on the Dejavu thread.  I was literally accussed from the author of 'spamming' her thread and I didn't think I was doing that at all.  To me, I felt like they weren't looking for a broad discussion, but a narrow one that suited their needs.  KNow that I know Dani has posted on that thread, I will definitely check it out.

I can tell I will continue to enjoy the discusion here - I sure hope you don't mind me butting in.

About the 'Gilmore moment at the movies!"  Whenever I'm with my family, especially my sister we do that all that time.  I also like to talk during the movie and I got shushed during a full theatre at the beginning of one of the spiderman movies -- that made me so mad.  I don't think the movie had started yet, it was just during the previews!  When my sister and I saw Take The Lead(with Antonio Banderas!) we were dancing in our seats and cheering the dancers on.  It was so much fun.  I have found it is easier to to that either on opening night -- with the excited crowd -- or later on when the theatre is empty.  I think movies are so much better if you can get into them. 

[wmushell]

Yay, Melissa was here!  You should definitely post here, the discussions are great IMO.  I believe that kilverstone is in her 20's as well, so don't let age stop you.  Besides, I've heard that 30's are the new 20's .  Okay, that is actually my wishful thinking!  What's new with you job decision?  Give us an update.  The beginning of the school year is upon us.

kilverstone, I understand how stressful it is to be snarked.  I'm glad it hasn't stopped you from stating your opinion.  Don't worry, the pretty sticks will come as well.  In the end, having conviction in your beliefs is what matters.

I am feeling much, much better today and not half as crabby as yesterday.   When I posted in the "smart thread" (as I'm now calling it), it was way past my bedtime and the only reason I was up and on the computer was because I couldn't fall asleep (lots on my mind with school starting).  [Note to self -- do NOT post when exhausted  !  Just watch GG dvds.].  Anyhow, the most amazing thing has happened since Dani's post in that thread -- the conversation has actually become interesting!  I may go there later and write about Howard Gardner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences, which is what I should've talked about yesterday had I been coherent enough to think of it.

Another thought on the deja vu thread, many of the examples given are spaced apart by quite a bit of time (at least 2 or 3 seasons).  That seems like a reasonable span of time that a person might make a reference again in real life. 

Caryn, I can't wait to hear your take on this whole "smart thread" thing!  I hope you're enjoying time with your little ones now.

[Ggirlfan]

Ever since I found this thread, I just keep checking back to see such interesting posts!  I love the fact that Gilmore Girls a "smart" show!

Its funny, I had a friend of mine tell me a couple years ago when I told her I was hooked on GG, "They use big words on that show!"  I was at my parents house one night having dinner and didn't think I would make it home in time for GG so I put it on there, and my father told me he couldn't keep up with the banter back and forth!  I told him that is the charm of the show, the dialogue, the fact that Lorelai and Rory just speak so fast!  Although I have been told I speak too fast too, so maybe thats why I like it! LOL!  Seriously, I love the "banter" back and forth and the fact that they use "big words"! It is a show to challenge you with its quick references. Maybe its our generation that gets it, so thats why we like it!  (Again, why I love this thread!)

The great thing about the show being quick witted and full of references, is that when I watch the show in reruns or on dvd, there are so many things that I might catch the second time around, that I missed the first time I saw it!  I watched the last 4 episodes and finally finished my Season 5 dvd and just laughed at the references that I missed the first time I saw it because I was so enthralled in the drama in the story line!  As a matter of fact, at the end of the Season 5 DVD, the actress that plays Sookie comments that when they are reading the script, sometimes it might take someone a minute to figure out the reference or they don't "get it" so someone has to explain it later!

By the way..when I read the "movies" story, being silly and getting all buttery- LOL! I pictured Lorelai and Rory doing something like that! (at Kirk's theatre!) Very funny!

[kilverstone]

Ggirlfan - I too love the banter on the show, it's incredibly amusing and always leaves me giggling. Since I am also a coffee junkie those lines are especially heartwarming to me. I always smile after I watch a GG episode and that to me says that it is good television. I've decided to take a couple of seasons on DVD with me on my vacation to see if I can get my mom and sister hooked on it. I don't think it should be a problem and since we're taking a girl's vacation together all next week it seems like the perfect time to reintroduce the joy of the Gilmores. I'm beyond excited to to have my own GG vacation. 

wmushell - I think I too was rather exhausted when I last posted but I still get annoyed with the snark/pretty stick thing. I am happy being me and don't care what everyone else thinks anyway. That's the security that comes as you go along in life you stop obsessing about how others see you and realize that if someone decides not to like you there isn't much that can be done about it.

[honkifuluvGG]

Wow, disappear for a couple of days and the thread has exploded - and with lovely thoughtful posts!!!!  I love it.

Can't actually stay here now but I was having a quick lurk without logging in, read that the thread had taken off and felt the need to come on and be proud of all of us  

Did want to add a thought along similar lines as everybody else here about the smart thread though.  Yep, I too am loving the fact that all the characters have some level of intelligence about them.  It doesn't mean that every character is smart, and if I understand the gist of what the author of that thread was saying, that ASP has created some uber brainy society, just that they all have their thing.  Yep Lorelai and Luke are great at business, but not so great on the relationship side of things.  Sookie by her own admission, is not that smart about business, but throw her a culinary challenge and she will kick your butt!  Rory has a general nerd or geek (and this is not a derogatory statement in my books) intelligence, however is young and naive in the way of relationships and grown up things.  Jess was street smart and well read, but hello does he have any idea how to interact with all levels of human beings - no way!  There are your average run of the mill characters as well, I mean, we dont get to see a lot of personal stuff about Gypsy, Ms Patty and Taylor etc., even Kirk to some extent, but at the end of the day they are not genius by nature.  Sure, they are knowledgable, especially when it comes to their area of expertise, but far from above average when it comes to intelligence.  Logan, again  smart enough to go to college, obviously he graduates (yep unfortunately my spreeness does not reach all boundaries of my investigations throught the boards), but far from uber intelligent.  Again he knows a lot of great literary and journalistic information and references, but that is the family business. Lane, well she a music trivia god, but again you dont get the impression she aces everything when it came to school work.  I could go on and on......

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think just about every character is balanced out in some way or another, which is not that different from life.  They all find themselves confident and knowledgable when it come to what they are passionate about, but they also have their flaws in some instances, or, they are just average.  You can speak to just about anybody in everyday life and be assured that that person can kick you butt in some subject or another.  My 5 year old son can tell you anything and everything about the magical world of Harry Potter.  Now I've read all the books, seen the movies  as has he (we read them to him) but we have a Harry Potter Trivia Game and he wipes the floor with us every time!  That is his area of specialty (I just hope when he is older he can apply the same sort of dedication to, oh I dont know, being a doctor, lawyer, rock god )  So I say the balance of the show is perfect.  I, as all of you before me have mentioned, love the level of intelligence in the show. I love the quick witted banter, the great pop culture references and truly fascinating relationship interactions, and I for one hope that with the change in writers that this facet of the show never changes.

Phew!!  I thought I'd never get through that thought process - is this how exhausted you feel after every post dani? 

My rant is over my friends....have a lovely day

[wmushell]

Very well put, Caryn!     I thought that was a fantastic take on "intelligence" on the show.  Thank goodness, that thread got kind of interesting and the conversation ended up being well-rounded.  I posted some educational research that I hope didn't put anyone to sleep.

Your son sounds so intelligent, himself!   How great that you read him those books, it is the best thing to do with children.  My fondest memory of childhood is my mom reading to me (and later us reading to each other) before I went to bed every night.  We would laugh and giggle and have a blast.  Then, when she left and I was supposed to be sleeping, I got the flashlight out and would go over all of my books again!  One book she read to me was Pippi Longstocking and whenever I hear a Pippi reference (how much did I LOVE "We Got Us a Pippi Virgin"?) I think of my mom reading it to me.   Most likely, whenever your son hears a Harry Potter reference in the future, he'll think of you sharing the books (and your love of them) with him!

I think it is so nice that the younger fans decided to create their own thread and the 19-29 year-olds have one too.  Sometimes, you just want to connect with people from your particular generation.  Although, I hope kilverstone and Melissa still post here!  I love your insightful comments!  

[kilverstone]

Unfortunately I have never connected well with many people my own age. I always found my peers to be umm how shall we say this politely...somewhat ridiculous. I was never a partier in college, I was a bookworm, much like our beloved Rory. I didn't really date until after college and then found myself in a long-term committed relationship...oh wait that's what they call marriage. Thanks for the kind words wmushell. I already checked out the other thread and quickly backed out of the forum. The vibe isn't my pace, maybe when it gets a few more posters and some direction.  It's nice that someone started it all the same.

[honkifuluvGG]

haha well of course Michelle.  Both my children are genius'  .  We do a lot of reading in our family and our house is over-run with books of all sorts.  I remember seeing the graduation from Chilton episode for Rory and loving the part where she thanked Lorelai for all the culture - through books, music and movies - that she had brought into her life.  That is also what I have always wanted to achieve.  Listening to that part of the speech made me really proud that my hubby and I do the same with our children.  My boys love all sorts of music especially movie soundtracks (the instrumental kind) and have a great ear for it.  They love classical, jazz, pop, rock, indie....you name it.  It can be funny to watch them one day dancing a round to the wiggles and the next day singing along to current songs on the radio.  yet when it comes to bed at night, we read a book (or part of) then they request the Harry Potter soundtrack, or Miles Davis.  Very diverse little beings

Oh and I agree about the other age thread creation - everybody really has a place that should suit them now.  And I was also very remiss in my earlier post by not saying how great it was to see all the wonderful non-30 postee's making a wonderfull contribution.  Please hang around - you will be guaranteed (well as much as one can) to be able to state your mind whether it goes with the popular flow of opinion or not without fear of snarking

[wmushell]

haha well of course Michelle.  Both my children are genius'  . 

Your children both being geniuses is a given!   What you wrote about all of the music, books, and culture you and your husband are giving your little ones was beautiful.  Rory's speech about Lorelai made me cry, I'm not ashamed to admit .  I love how she refers to her as "the dazzling woman from which I received my name" (or something like that).  How old is your other son, Caryn?  I remember you saying that one of their names was Jackson.  I love that he has a GG name, although I think you also wrote you didn't know about our "gg Jackson" at the time.

kilverstone, being bookish is a good thing!   I had a lot of fun in college, but I didn't party like most of the kids did.  Feel free to hang out on this thread anytime!