Litliners- for those who can't decide between being a headliner or literati.

[bingbong]

Laura, thank you for calling her "Jim's dear Lorelai". Has a certain ring to it! Hey, that Lorelai chick ain't getting married new year's, is she? I might have to bust up that wedding! 

I agree about early Dean being a good first boyfriend because he was so sweet, etc., but who's to say Rory couldn't have handled Jess at that point? How well did she handle Jess when they actually were together? I think she would have been attracted to Jess if she had met him before Dean and if her first boyfriend was the "bad-boy", then so be it. I think she would have struggled with Jess just as she did later on. But she would not have fallen apart in dealing with him, just as she did not fall apart and stood up to that jerk Tristan.

As for Lorelai not being ready for Jess (or Logan) at that early point, she was not ready for them later either. She never fully came around on Jess and rarely on Logan, but Rory did as she pleased and that's how it should be. Rory had to decide these things for herself and Lorelai had to deal with it, for better or worse.

lol - Now i'm thinking of how Lorelai was so fond of early Dean and how this little notion was the seed that created "Sicko Gilmore Girls" on the Literati thread. 

[the girls4ever]

Laura, thank you for calling her "Jim's dear Lorelai". Has a certain ring to it! Hey, that Lorelai chick ain't getting married new year's, is she? I might have to bust up that wedding! 

lol - Now i'm thinking of how Lorelai was so fond of early Dean and how this little notion was the seed that created "Sicko Gilmore Girls" on the Literati thread. 

I was just stating the truth  You can have Lorelai in Sicko GG but you better behave at that wedding 

And as for you last statement....no comment 

[Laurao]

In the beginning when Jess appeared I didn't think at that Rory and him could be a good couple, but later when he matured a little and pulled his life together he became a HUGE possibility. Besides the fact that I wanted him for myself (Haha.), I was really mad at Rory when he came to Yale (To try to get her back! ). They could have been great together...

On the other hand, Logan is a good boyfriend. Yes, He could be a jerk sometimes , but for the most part he was nice and stuck up for Rory when Mitchum was being a real pain in the neck. Bt I really didn't like him when he got jealous about Jess, He didn't have any right!

[SIDNEY]

In the beginning when Jess appeared I didn't think at that Rory and him could be a good couple, but later when he matured a little and pulled his life together he became a HUGE possibility. Besides the fact that I wanted him for myself (Haha.), I was really mad at Rory when he came to Yale (To try to get her back! ). They could have been great together...

Are you kidding? That's my favorite Rory scene. It was bad enough that he was so messed up but to ask her to through her life with him was just extreme. She worked her whole life to enter a great university and he comes (after he'd left her without goodbye) and tells her leave school and run with me. Did he seriously expect her to say yes. That's crazy!

[Laurao]

I wasn't mad that she didn't leave Yale, but the fact she just like...I wishthat she could have forgave (Forgivin? Whatever) him, or something.

[the girls4ever]

I don't really think Jess was looking for forgiveness when he went to Yale. While reading the self-help book was a step in the right direction, he was a bit naive. He knows how devoted Rory is to school, Stars Hollow, and Lorelai...how could he ask her to leave all that? He really hasn't given her much reason to trust him, that this time would be different. He left without saying goodbye and then he told Rory that he loved her and left again. They both weren't ready at that point to give a relationship another try. I think it was Rory's rejection that further led him to mature, he already read the self-help book and then he went on to really get his life together.

[GilmoreAddict7899]

I don't really think Jess was looking for forgiveness when he went to Yale. While reading the self-help book was a step in the right direction, he was a bit naive. He knows how devoted Rory is to school, Stars Hollow, and Lorelai...how could he ask her to leave all that? He really hasn't given her much reason to trust him, that this time would be different. He left without saying goodbye and then he told Rory that he loved her and left again. They both weren't ready at that point to give a relationship another try. I think it was Rory's rejection that further led him to mature, he already read the self-help book and then he went on to really get his life together.

totally true. Did he actually think Rory would leave Yale, Stars Hollow, and Lorelai? He didnt give her a reason to trust him. Last time he appeared he told her he loved her then drove away without even waiting for a response. How could you believe that he has changed without seeing him after that incident?

(btw: I love your sig... PS!)

[superstarmonkey]

Did he actually think Rory would leave Yale, Stars Hollow, and Lorelai?

No, I don't think he did. I don't think his coming to Yale was actually about him wanting her to run away with him. Well, perhaps it was on the surface but underneath it was a cry for help, a cry for redemption, if you will. He knew his life was a mess and that he had to get it in order. Rory was one of the only people who had believed in him and encouraged him, along with Luke. He had already patched things up with Luke, now he had to find forgiveness from Rory. Screwed up logic that didn't work, yes, but her rejection did give him a push in the right direction. He realised that he couldn't change the past by Rory forgiving him, or saying she loved him. It was something he had to do for himself and work hard at.

So although it may seem like this huge jerky thing Jess was doing, it actually was good because the rejection gave him the true realisation about how he needed to grow up. He saw what Rory had accomplished and knew that it was time he did something too.

[bingbong]

^ ^ That's a great take on Jess' plight. We didn't see much of him again until he reappeared in season 6 with his book and his act together. But what a turnaround for him and it felt right about his character, not some wacked-out change that other characters go through (such as early Dean compared to later Dean). In that episode, Jess appeared to be maturing in the way he acted towards his mom and Luke, making real strides. But at the end we saw the problems that remained underneath and how desperate he was feeling. He was at a crossroads.

[katie_lou]

I agree about early Dean being a good first boyfriend because he was so sweet, etc., but who's to say Rory couldn't have handled Jess at that point? How well did she handle Jess when they actually were together? I think she would have been attracted to Jess if she had met him before Dean and if her first boyfriend was the "bad-boy", then so be it. I think she would have struggled with Jess just as she did later on. But she would not have fallen apart in dealing with him, just as she did not fall apart and stood up to that jerk Tristan.

I dislike Dean but think he was an awesome first boyfriend for her as remember how shy and timid she was in season 1? When Dean kissed her she said "thank you" and ran out of Doose's.
I think that meeting Jess , the 'bad-boy' at 15 would have just intimidated her. Rory really grew in confidence from the girl who was invisible at Stars Hollow High and then, for several episodes, Chilton. I think having Jess 'borrow' her book and return it would have been met with a stammer rather than the "that's a felony" retort if she was still the 15 year old who babbled when she first met Dean. Though she still babbles in season 5 when she meets up with Logan at the Pub to give him her notes, so who knows, maybe you're right and Jess could have been her 1st bf or 2nd.

[Una]

I have to activate this topic just to say that, even though I will always, always be a die hard literati fan, and even though Jess is someone that makes the whole show worth watching...now that I've watched the whole 5th season again, I gotta say, it's refreshing seeing a guy that hits on a girl like Logan hit on Rory. Of course, it's not like he was anywhere close to Jess's performance while he was trying to win Rory over, but, still, compared to Marty's awkward and insecure attempts (and myself being surounded more and more by guys like that idiot on their spring break, that was fascinated with Rory and Paris's kiss), Logan's secure, selfconfident, cool and relaxed way around Rory makes me rethink my belief that they are completely not for each other.

And one more thing that I have just noticed - I don't think Rory ever loved anyone more than she loved Logan. She made the first move, she told him she loved him first, she cried her eyes out when he left (she didn't cry even a little bit when she broke up with Dean for the second time, and so much as two weeks before, she told him she loved him), she got drunk and cried in her mother's lap on the bathroom floor (and we all know how proud Rory is) when she thought Logan didn't like her...As much as I hate it, she didn't do any of those things while she was with Jess even thought he used to hurt her continuously, and especially not with Dean.
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