7.21 - Unto the Breach

[zeddie]

Yeah, i think all of this can be in many respects chalked up to "Oh look, the series is ending, hey we better wrap up this McGillicutty, ana hey?"

"Ya, sure, you got dat right, once yet..."

With like - NO REGARD for the actual logic behind it. Just - end the sucker. Yeah, that's the problem here. 

PEACE TO ALL 

i am sad... 

[Dani257]

I have to repeat something i have said a lot. The WAS a TV show, ok?  Therefore, we the viewers (the lifeblood of the thing, really, ok?)  had EVERY RIGHT to expect certain things. I cannot do anything about those who wanted Jess instead of Logan - but let us consider the Logan supporters. Gosh Dang it, we had a right to assume that Rory would (maybe with some trepidation) accept the proposal, on condition of them working thru some issues; Something Like - "Yes, Logan, i will marry you - if you agree to a longish engagement, so that we both know we each have careers and also what we want out of marriage.  Things are a little unsettled for me. So, yes, i will gladly wear your ring, and now just give me enough time to feel good about ALL of it - not just you wanting to marry me. Is that fair?"

I will agree up to the point that shippers had every right (and every logic based on how they wrote the relationship prior to this) to believe it wasn't going to end this episode.  They gave no set up for a break up.  And, for every obstacle people assumed was the one Rory would dump Logan over (because the majority of cries for a break up were along the lines of Rory should leave Logan and not vice versa) the show wrote Rory not doing it.  But, I think only her break ups with Dean made sense in the context of how their relationship had been going.  Heck, I never even liked her with Jess and I felt that was contrived because the spin off they wanted was more important than continuity. 

Choosing career over a man that YOU LOVE AND WHO IS PROBABLY YOUR SOULMATE, AFTER ALL (remember that factoid) is just idiotic BECAUSE - your career will let you down, most of the time. I mean, unless you plan to be the first woman to climb mount everest backwards or on your hands or something and you need your entire life to practice, then your career is NOT going to be more fulfiling that real love and marriage to your "perfect man" - it just isn't, ok? I have been down ALL of these roads already. I did the bit where i was crazy into my career - and i got f-ed over for it. I just don't have kids, but other than that - i did the bit where i loved someone who didn't love me, i also married a man who was not very committed, and i let THE ONE - THE ONE slip away from me.  So i have done all of it. I know from experience, not just from talking about it.

Well, two things.  Rory didn't choose a career over Logan.  If she had that would have been something to debate.  She chose this vague wide openness.   That's what I don't get.  And, not taking away from your experience or even saying that this necessarily relates to the Rory/Logan situation.  But, your experience doesn't mean that someone else couldn't find fulfillment in a career.  And, be perfectly happy single.  I'm all for "I have experience and I think that should be taken into consideration."  I'm not big on "I'm right, no room for debate."  If I'm misreading, that's unintentional.  It just seems there's no room for considering the myriad of experiences that other people might have that could, for that person, contradict your experiences.  But, that's getting off topic and eh, I shouldn't say anything else on that.  Back to the show, again, Rory wasn't saying she thought a career was more important than Logan.  It was much vaguer and that very vagueness made it sillier in my mind.


i wasn't sure what to cut from the rest, so I cut the whole thing and am just responding blind.  First, I do think there's one big problem with a long distance relationship now.  Rory gave no indication that it would be temporary.  And, since it was again vague that made it difficult.  I think Logan and Rory were extremely committed and knew they loved each other and wanted to be together when he left for London.  I don't think there were any doubts in their minds.  Partings was one of the most romantic and solid episodes of their relationship.  So, I don't think he needed to do that to help his relationship.  But, I think I got off track.  My point is, I would say the difference in London and now had to do the fact that they both knew it was going to be temporary.  She knew it was a year.  Heck, since I believe Logan went to be responsible and do something, I believe even if Mitchum had wanted to extend the year, Logan would have still come back, only done something else.  But, I don't think he would ever have stayed in London indefinitely without her.  I think if things were the same now, a temporary separation would have worked.  And, I think Logan would have been open to it.  It's the whole, not knowing if the long distance would be a permanent thing. 

Although, apropos of nothing (if I'm using the phrase correctly) some married people, mainly actors, do have long term long distance relationships.  At least as long term as the duration of a tv series.  And, even in the Sodom and Gomorrah of Hollywood (what do you know?  I can't spell eighth without 5 tries each time, but I get Gomorrah without batting an eye) a lot of those marriages are completely faithful and stable.  And, I have no idea if that little digression has any bearing on the show, so feel free to ignore it. 

[laurla205]

I don’t think I’m missing the point (referring to a page or two ago now).  I’m saying the point is baloney.  Pure and simple.  By choosing to make her own decisions regardless of anyone else’s feelings or situations (which is selfish) she chose no Logan (darn that Paris and her voodoo, just a joke just a joke, I haven’t begun to think about how much Paris’ situation influenced her decision…yet).  And that’s unfortunate any way you look at it and doesn’t make sense according to statements she made regarding her feelings for Logan over the past 2-3 seasons.  Granted she doesn’t have the hindsight to realize that making decisions independently just for the sake of not basing them on someone else is not worth losing a great love.  But I know better so I am upset with it.

Thanks, zeddie as I mentioned earlier, I slept off the hangover and it helped  And I think you said best why a LD relationship would be a step back and I agree, so I’ll leave it at that (keeping in mind I would be somewhat okay with a LD relationship IF it included a statement that the proposal would still be considered or a long engagement, since the proposal cannot be taken away).  I will say purlpleflippers (and this is not just directed at you but anyone that thinks Logan is a horrible person or immature for his immediate reaction) that once you have proposed to someone and had them say no to you, no matter the explanations, and you don’t feel like walking away let me know (to be clear I wouldn’t wish that on anyone).  Rory did say she didn’t want to move forward with him through her explanations.  That was pretty clear; she wants to move forward by herself with nothing but the changing winds directing her (okay, that's an overstatement but you know what I mean).  But she also could have kept her word and factored him in to a point of coming up with a compromise.  They both could have (which as far as refusing to, I find more OOC for Logan than Rory).  

I think I got the angry out in a couple other threads.  Now I just want to understand, most things I can eventually wrap my head around, but nothing here is doing that for me.  It’s still baloney.  

[gimoregirls1992ab]

I can’t say I don’t agree with this.  I’m just as befuddled about the complete turnaround from wanting to factor her in (which I interpreted to mean, at the least, him making his decisions based upon her decisions). 

I'm more angry than befuddled.  The writers didn't care about character integrity.  I mean the writers' integrity, not Logan's.  Very very few people in this world are 100% honest all the time about everything (I said that no one is, but got corrected in that before).  So, I won't say Logan has never lied, but lying is not one of his basic character flaws. 

Yeah, the whole turn of events is strange. As far as I can remember, R/L had never talked about marriage, although I remember Richard and Emily and Logan's parents thinking/worrying about it.  I felt for Logan, up there pouring out his heart.  But was it in line with his character to suddenly decide to get married, and that it had to be now?  Most people give off a few hints, even when they lived together it was more of --you need a place to stay, you're welcome to stay here -- instead of a real desire to build a shared space. And I never got any hints that Rory was falling out of love with him, or uncertain of her feelings.  Her ability to refuse him within 24 hours didn't really seem like Rory to me.  She agonized over the job in Providence about as long. Anyway, I agree that it was done for expediency, to either end the series with Rory heading out into the world independent or so in case of season 8 there could be more drama ?new guy(s)? for Rory.

i totally agree....

[gimoregirls1992ab]

this episode made me cry, not because it's sad, just because it's so close to the end, the preview for next weeks episode pushed me over the edge, i was almost to the point of sobbing.....

[runningsb05]

Omg, good episode but really really bad episode. I cried and cried and cried when Rory and Logan broke up. Cried, and hard. I am so upset. :[

I am going to cry the entire series finale. I don't want it to end, I don't want it to end. It will be so unfinished expecially with Rory single. I have always been there Gilmore Girls, faithful for seven years; can't it just be faithful to us fans for one more year?

[rogan4ever]

Omg, good episode but really really bad episode. I cried and cried and cried when Rory and Logan broke up. Cried, and hard. I am so upset. :[

I am going to cry the entire series finale. I don't want it to end, I don't want it to end. It will be so unfinished expecially with Rory single. I have always been there Gilmore Girls, faithful for seven years; can't it just be faithful to us fans for one more year?

TOTALLY WHAT I DID!! i seriously started balling when she handed him the ring back and he walked away...this episode was HORRIBLE!!! i really don't want to see the finale...i don't think Rory and Logan are getting back together though I REALLY want them too!!!

[Dani257]

Off the break up for a moment, there were two things I appreciated about the episode.  One, Christopher was shown to still be a part of Rory's life.  They really couldn't avoid him missing her Chilton graduation, but they did remedy that here.  And, I still wish they would have delved deeper into the Lorelai and Richard relationship, but Richard telling Lorelai that Rory's graduation was as much her moment as Rory's showed a bigger respect for Lorelai as a mother than he's ever done.  Richard has always seemed, to me, to act like Rory either came to all her good points fully formed, due to his influence, or despite Lorelai.  It was nice to have him give Lorelai credit. 

And, the break up still sucks.

[jamhandsmom]

As far as the idea of their break-up not being good for the show to end on, I think they forced it to make the last few episodes work. If they were together, how could Luke and Lorelai get back together in a way that would be satisfying and meaningful to the fans? Rory and Logan would have blissfully been making wedding/relocation plans, and Lorelai would have been devastated that her best friend and daughter was going to be moving 3000 miles away. Not much room in there for Luke, except to comfort Lorelai, maybe, if she'd let him after all the uncertainty in their relationship up until that point. I think that's the rub here--they had to tie up loose ends, they had to get Luke and Lorelai back together, and they couldn't have Lorelai literally looking as though she'd lost her best friend. Personally, I think the Rory/Logan break-up was logistical more than character-driven.

[GilmoreAddict7899]

Let me just ask this: What is the point of Rory and Logan breaking up?? They built their relationship up for like 3 seasons! Theres not another season so its not something like he didnt want to do another one or something! Whats up with that??! (saddness saddness sadness) Did they just feel like ripping my heart out? Omg!


They were meant to be!
: ' (     : ' (      : ' (

[zeddie]

Unto The Breach

ok, i blew away the last big post. Too much, who cares... i am done now.

Good luck to all of you, in case i don't come back here.....

becuz i am both dreading THE END and gonna be relieved that it came and went.  And afterwards i may just - check out completely. Unto the Breach

so, i wanted to say thank you to everyone. I have really enjoyed it. And i will keep in touch with those i have made friends without outside this forum. Many of you are really a part of my day now. 

Love,
Zed 

[Morada]

Wow.  I haven't been here for a LONG time.  I also just found out last night's episode was the 2nd to last one. Woohoo! 

I am completely content that the show is ending now.  I barely made it through the *#%@ in Season 6.  I used to sit in front of the TV trying to make sure I never missed that first minute of the show.  After we got into Season 6, I downloaded the show then watched it when I got around to it.  Pretty much the same for Season 7.  The writers haven't been giving the actors the quality of scripts that made them love the show and their characters.  There's never a good way to tell fans who love your characters that you may have fallen out of love with the project - after all, they have to get jobs after this.  I support the cast in not agreeing to Season 8.  I believe they want to cut bait before it gets any worse.  CathyCoffee said it best:

I agree with whoever said that DR just randomly wrote down lines without even CONSIDERING who the charcters are.  Seriously, does he want to be known as "the guy who ruined Gilmore girls"? Becasue he is sure heading down that path.

I am really holding a grudge against ASP, because she left there show in such a mess, that she must've known that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to bring it back to its entirety(sp??).

I am the biggest grudge holder.  I always thought the show was so special because it showed some of the very best parts about being a single mother and raising a child.  We saw Lorelai realize she was a little too self-absorbed and she grew up some...then it turned soap opera because Amy wanted to yank people's emotional chains around.  After that, Amy and hubs withdrew from the project to start another show.  That's cheesy.  At least stick with the thing until it's time to go.  Amy has always said she knew exactly how the show was going to end.  I fear the worst (Lorelai and Rory starting out alone just "The Gilmore Girls" and ending alone), but even if the best happens I will never trust another show Amy writes.  I've felt like a drug addict...too upset about what the characters have turned into, but loving who they were too much to be able to completely turn away.  Bleck!

I don’t think I’m missing the point (referring to a page or two ago now).  I’m saying the point is baloney.  Pure and simple.  By choosing to make her own decisions regardless of anyone else’s feelings or situations (which is selfish) she chose no Logan (darn that Paris and her voodoo, just a joke just a joke, I haven’t begun to think about how much Paris’ situation influenced her decision…yet).  And that’s unfortunate any way you look at it and doesn’t make sense according to statements she made regarding her feelings for Logan over the past 2-3 seasons.

I thought Lorelai refusing to give any input to her daughter was just poor script writing.  She didn't even suggest writing a pro/con list.  She could have had a nice talk with Rory about what she thought the greatest parts of being with Logan would be and all the advantages of making a yes decision and then talked about Rory's fears and the legitimate reasons for considering a no verdict.  Instead she completely wimped out.  (Why do I always think they are going to credit Lorelai with wisdom?  Why, why, why?)  What I saw from Rory was a big TUMBLE backwards.  Rory gets the guy, then tosses him away carelessly whenever someone asks her to make any type of commitment.  We're back to self-absorbed girl again. 

Was it right for Logan to ask her to marry him at that big party?  Bleck.  No.  I would have thought he wanted a beautiful, quiet, romantic night to be alone with his girl to pop that life-changing question.  HOWEVER, I can understand why he did it that way.  Logan is starting to grow up and this is what he's grown up with.  Big announcements in a big place.  He had no idea there would be any hesitence on Rory's part.  She stayed with the guy when he was acting like a 2-year old. 

And Rory....UGH!  Seriously chick, couldn't you have had the SMALLEST amount of respect for the fact that Logan asked you to marry him?  He was nervous and deeply emotional and passionate about it.  All she can say is "can I talk to you outside??"  What kind of crap is that?  (Are we allowed to say crap?)  I'll be very honest, I thought Logan merged two things together - his love for her and the fact she hasn't been able to get a job anywhere and tried to create something for the both of them.  That way she could pursue her own career on the west coast, away from all the rejection of the east coast and he could show her how committed he was to her.  Personally, I would have asked him by whispering in his ear whether I could pick the actual date or not and if he said yes, I would have said yes....for one reason only.  Because that wasn't really the right place to propose marriage.  Sure, it was considering the way he grew up.  It certainly wasn't for Rory and having known her that long, he should have remembered her disdain for anything done at a gathering of her mother's friends.  So, he was a little wrong for doing it there, but she was way more wrong for acting the way she did when he proposed. 

My thoughts on the actual marrying?  I would have made it clear long before it got to this point that I would never marry someone until we had both had time to grow together.  Especially since Logan just started acting right.  I would want to see him fail at the job again and THEN make a marriage decision based on the way he reacted to his next business failure.  I would sure as heck live with him until that time though.  I believe in fate.  I believe if you really choose to have an amazing life, sometimes you have to let the universe drive because you won't know what the most amazing life is until it's presented to you (and that's from personal experience!).  Our conscious minds know so little about what really makes our hearts sing.  Lorelai should have pointed out to Rory that she didn't really have to make a solid decision because by the time they got to the prenup, Rory would have had a millions ways to back out if she really didn't think Logan was the one.  In simply TAKING the chance she was opening the door to a million possibilities! 

But that would have been the happy ending, the two lovers excited about their life ahead?     That would have ruined Amy's plans.

As far as Luke and Lorelai are concerned I couldn't even watch them.  Lauren Graham is a WONDERFUL actress.  The emotional scenes where she gets sad about her baby growing up and most likely moving away were heart-breaking...yes I cried at the graduation scene.  Just knowing you managed to get your kid through high school with honors being a single parent is enough to make that a tear-worthy event.  Been there.  I was happy to have my son go out into the world though while I finally got some peace and quiet.    Lauren's acting really conveys to me this lost, lonely and confused person.  And I LOVED Scott's acting too!  He loves Lorelai, but she's starting to pull that needy, self-absorbed crap again.  If she was watching his reactions and body language, she would have known he wasn't ready to discuss marriage in the beginning.  Her forcing the issue on him because SHE was ready was wrong.  Had he just been a regular guy instead of a quasi-hermit, ok, I can see her getting excited and asking him to marry her.  But he's quiet Luke.  He's getting used to things Luke.  He's a guy you can just be with forever and not have to get married Luke.  No, he's not perfect (especially with the hack job they did to him in Season 6), but he's still honest about his emotions and yes, with Lorelai being so overbearing I can see why he wouldn't tell her about his kid when he first found out. 

After seeing last night's episode, I maintain they are still not right for each other.  She's way too needy to be trying to stir that up again.  For God's sake woman, learn to be happy with your own little life before you try to add anyone into it.  I would think the breakup with Chris was example enough of why she should take some time to get to know herself. 

I'm expecting the worst from the last episode.  Rory and Lorelai alone on the steps mulling over the last seven years.  Yeah, we saw a clip of Lorelai and Luke kissing, but I couldn't tell whether it was a new clip or an old clip.  If they get back together, I may puke.  I LOVED them a long time ago, but after what the writers have done to their characters, I'm convinced more than ever that they need to just stay friends.  It's anyone's guess what they'll wind up being to one another after it's all said and done. 

What I DO want to see in the last episode?  All my favorite characters from Stars Hollow!!!  If the town troubador isn't there, I'm REALLY going to be peeved.    It's not a season ender/series ender without the troubador singing his last song.  I'm so VERY glad Maury has been there this last few episodes.  He was gone for a lot of them over the years.  I love his character!  My dream ending would have Mrs. Kim tell Lane she can't be away from her husband that long and agree to go on tour with them as the nanny.  Heck, if Faith Hill and Tim McGraw can do it, why not Lane and Zach?  I want to see a long pan over the town and all it's residents for the parting shot, including Paul Anka (the dog). 

This was an amazing show with some incredibly talented actors.  I greatly appreciate every thing they have put into this show.  I'll keep my Seasons 1-5 DVDs, but I hated Season 6 so much, I never bought the set.  I probably won't buy 7 either.  I'm going to remember the good times and how wonderful Scott Patterson's body moves when he's taking a woman in his arms and how hard I laughed and how hard I cried.  Then I'm going to move on and be glad Tuesday night is free for me now. 

Life is the most incredible, exciting thing once you decide to let it be that way.  In my last episode, they all allow it to be!

[GilmoreAddict7899]

Im sorry, but why are you happy gilmore girls is ending?!

[Jiyu-chan]

I just saw the episode. (I conned one of my friends into recording it while I was at the band concert.) So, I'll put my thoughts into all this.

First off, with the proposal. I guess I was kinda shocked, with Logan proposing to Rory at her graduation party, but it was also kinda expected. I'm on the wall this one.

Kirk in a box. Kirk is in a box! OMG! Crazy Kirk. >_>;;;

I cried during the graduation scene. It was sad to see her graduate.

Rory said no. ;~; And Logan dumped her. I cried.

I'm really on the wall with this entire episode. But, I cried. And I guess it was really meant to be sentimental. I can't say it's the greatest episode ever, but it was alright for the second to last episode.

[haileyerin]

Im sorry, but why are you happy gilmore girls is ending?!

I kind of agree... yeah, it sucks that the show is ending but do you want it to end with low ratings, lame storylines and a lack of original dialogue?

People resent 7th Heaven because it isn't the show it once was (which isn't saying much but still...). Do you really want the show to be resented because it turns into something it wasn't meant to be?

I'll probably get blasted for that, too. It just seems kind of logical