7.16 - Will You Be My Lorelai Gilmore?

[AusGGaddict]

Hi folks, I am a newly registered member.  I have been visiting this site for some time and have the full set of GG dvds up to the end of season 6.  I became a follower of the series late in the piece but have made up for it since.  This is a really interesting, funny, and, I think, more real than a lot of the ridiculous reality shows we have seen emerging.  Real in the sense that it explores the strengths, weaknesses and mistakes of human nature in a mostly light hearted way with the occasional heart wrenching scenes that make you say to yourself "well that felt very familiar".  I am probably a few years older than most of you that are posting on this site and when I read how you were all confused about Lorelai's actions, I felt the need to put my thoughts accross.  I have not seen any of the episodes in season 7 but I look through the screencaps for each new episode and read the spoilers and some of the discussions so I think I can speak with some accuracy.

Firstly, let's return to the end of season 6 where Lorelai was feeling very uncomfortable about the fact that Luke now had a daughter that he was unaware of and was trying to bond with.  He was also insecure about what sort of Father he was going to be to this impressionable young person who had suddenly popped into his life.  Being the independent guy that he is, he wanted to see how he would fair without Lorelai's intervention but that meant shutting Lorelai out to large extent.  If you recall, Lorelai became so insecure about her current situation with Luke that she talked to the blind date that Emily had set up for Chris who just happened to be a counsellor and ended up in the back seat of her car saying that she had never really loved anyone until Luke.  The advice that she received was that she needed to confront Luke with her feelings and if it didn't turn out the way she hoped then perhaps it just wasn't meant to be.  I think that Luke couldn't handle any extra pressures at that time and couldn't commit to Lorelai's now or never.  She saw that as a sign that it wasn't meant to be and went to the only other man that she has really cared about for comfort and ended up allowing Chris to be the rebound guy.  They got together for all the wrong reasons, and stayed together for all the wrong reasons.  She still loved Luke but in her mind she needed to right that relationship off as "never meant to be" and was settling for the next best man, Christopher.  The more Luke showed that he was still there for her the more she realised her mistake.  She cannot go running back to Luke now, she has too much 'stuff' to work through and needs to do a bit more growing as a person before that can happen so that all of the insecurities she felt before don't get in the way.  Am I correct in saying that she does not go into the diner?  If I am correct, she is not going because she loves him and is sorting through her feelings about everything that has happened.  She'll be back when she is ready, all the signs are there.
Let me know if you disagree.

[laurla205]

First, welcome to the ORG AusGGaddict

I think you’re probably right.  And I think this is possibly what was supposed to be conveyed through the mysterious looks I referred to.  However, when Lorelai and Christopher were together (when they were just dating) they seemed perfectly happy and there was no sign of these regrets, or even a hint that this was an issue, from Lorelai.  And maybe that was purely denial which was sort of explained in Farewell My Pet, but she seemed truly happy with him either way.  The first look started after they got married and had returned to SH.  And I can understand that one; they were in Paris, got swept up in the romance and got married on a whim.  I think most people would have one or two regrets (i.e. family wasn’t there, did they really think it through properly, etc.) if they were married under those circumstances.  But nowhere through those looks, did I ever get the feeling Luke was an issue (Christopher was insecure about it but Lorelai did not convey that in any way until To Whom It May Concern, and that’s debatable too).  We can assume that of course there were some lingering feelings regarding their relationship because it was so recent but everything she had done indicated that, if they did exist, they were not romantic in nature and she was simply moving on.  She made the mistake of jumping into the marriage before working through those feelings but that doesn’t hinder her capability to move on while working through it.  If this was the problem from day 1 (meaning the season premiere) she really should have been ‘off’ during the time L/C were dating too.  It’s odd that she was fine and then all of the sudden it just popped up out of nowhere that yes, part of the problem is her feelings for Luke (not all of the problem). 

I guess what I’m getting at is that her actions didn’t seem to follow this explanation even though it’s probably correct.  I’m usually okay with inferring these type of things so long as they all fit the same pattern.  But they don’t and that’s where I think we (well me, anyway) need more closure on it from her confirming that this is the case.  People (characters) make mistakes.  Breaking off an engagement and then marrying another man (whom you’ve loved since you were 16) only to break that off (regardless of how mature a fashion it was done in) only to consider the possibility of returning to the first man - all in a matter of less than a year, is extreme.  One might even call it despicable.  I like Lorelai, I’m just having a hard time rationalizing how lightly it was portrayed all for the sake of her figuring out what (or who) she wants from life.  Two men were ruined.  They’ll both move on, obviously, but it doesn’t erase it. 

You’re correct, she has not gone into the diner.  But part of that could also be out of respect for both men.  I don’t agree that her stepping foot in the diner means all things are right in the world.  Maybe in her head but that doesn’t make it so for everyone around her (or those trying to follow her changing emotions).

[AusGGaddict]

Thank you for the welcome Laurla205 and for the response.

It would really help if I was able to watch the episodes, but we won't get them in Australia for a long while so I have to get my fix here.

I was thinking about what you said about Lorelai and when you really think about it, she really is not behaving out of character.  She has been leaving a string of broken hearts behind her from season one.  Max being one example.  I think she has wanted to settle down for a long time and thought she had exactly what she had always wanted with Luke until the arrival of April threw a spanner in the works.  I have not seen the looks you are referring to so it is hard to comment but if she seemed happy when she was first with Christopher, it would have been because she felt safe with him.  At first that was probably enough with everything that had been going on and I do believe that at one time she did love Christopher but that was before she got together with Luke.  She was commited to Luke and in her eyes he let her down.  I think you are right that denial played a big role in her behaviour but all unresolved and buried emotions eventually find a way to surface (and I am talking about all of us, not just the characters of GG).  This is one of the reasons I like this show so much because it has flawed characters who make mistakes that most of us either have already made or probably will make at some time in our lives.  Wow, I am really getting deep and meaningful now aren't I?  Sorry, didn't mean to.

[laurla205]

Yeah, it’s too bad the rest of the world doesn’t get to watch the episodes the same time as us When will it air in Australia?

Oh I don’t think it’s out of character at all and I agree that it’s been her pattern since Season 1.  Generally I enjoy it because she seemed to be growing (even if it’s only a little bit) from each relationship and we got to see that growth.  With Max I thought she learned that not every man could fill the shoes she was looking to be married to and she couldn’t create love even if she really liked someone.  With Jason it was that there’s a point where family takes precedence (even her family!).  With Luke it was that she needs someone that can be completely open and share his life with her.  I’m not sure yet what came out of this marriage other than the fact that Christopher is not the guy for her (and really I’m not even sure why I don’t consider that a reasonable lesson either…). 

This is one instance where we really don’t know what’s going on in her head while it’s happening and the explanations that have been given as of yet are not resolution for me.  We have 5 episodes left so I expect there will be more, I just wish I had more of a clue all along as well.  Even when you’re denying something you still know in the back of your mind that it exists.  It nags at you constantly no matter how hard you try to deny it.  A marriage may make you finally deal with the reasons for it head on but it doesn’t make them appear out of thin air.  When I said that she ruined two men, I didn’t mean to imply that she was the only party involved in either demise because I do think both Luke and Christopher had parts in why each relationship failed .  If she’d taken her time for herself in the first place as she said she was going to, she would have saved everyone involved a lot of heartache and still could have arrived at the same conclusion.  Granted it’s how they write the character and I am glad there’s some resolution with Christopher even if it doesn’t measure up to what I thought they could be together.  All in all I don’t find very much of it out of character at all, I just want to know more.  She’s as much as said she wants the ‘whole package’.  A couple times, it’s the detour she took on the journey to that ‘whole package’ that I’ve recently lost her on. 

I agree that Christopher was safe for her.  I hate to harp on this but it was a marriage with Christopher, not just a relationship or engagement, they were bonafide married (as far as we know).  That’s big, just to figure out whether or not he’s the guy for her and have her own opinion on that change so quickly. 

I prefer meaningful most of the time, as can be noted by the length of most of my posts

[lessa]

Heh, television producers and show owners should provide YouTube with complete fine copies of the show with corner advertisements. Everybody gets to watch and everybody gets paid. Nobody loses.

I can see why Lorelai didn't go straight back to Luke! If her whirlwind marriage has left us so shellshocked, I can only imagine what it would be like to go through it. Maybe it was like the girl-version of Logan's near-death experience where she's come face to face with the realization that it is her relationship process and her coping mechanisms the drove a wedge between her and Luke in season 6. (True or not, facing her doppleganger in a relationship seems to have opened her eyes about her own sense of romance.)

But as affected as Christopher and Luke are, I don't see that the breakup-marriage-breakup has ruined them. Quite the opposite. Christopher no longer has his safety net, and he's gone through the steps with his unattainable dream girl. Now he knows that life is not like a fantasy (subtle irony, n'est?) and he can get on with his, coping and compromising like a normal person instead of holding out for the nonexistent 'perfect.'

Luke, on the other hand, has learned about many different types of love with Lorelai, and that isn't gone just because she's not in his life anymore. Like the proverbial flower, once it's fallen from the hand, the smell and the memory of its beauty remains. (Sorry, it's a Star Trek reference) Lorelai has made a bigger person of Luke, even though it ended in a bad breakup. With Rachel and Nicole, he got only the lingering impression that he wasn't good enough to make anyone happy. Lorelai showed him that he was good enough for everyone before she broke his heart.
She changed his life for the better, and he may have focused on regret for a while, but I think he's beginning to realize how much love he's surrounded by because of her.

I know it's all a little shocking when every angle is wrung out for the sake of drama, but frankly I'm impressed they hit so close to my own values with respect to what the marriage had for and against it. I do believe that marriage is an elevated state that comes with certain privileges and responsibilities, but I also believe that what they had was wholly secular and only a marriage in the most technical sense. They weren't one flesh and one mind, they were just reliving the same past.

[laurla205]

Most of the networks do, on MySpace, silly CW.

Interesting comparison.  I can concede a little and admit that good things come out of both Lorelai and Christopher learning that what could have been doesn’t always equal what should be. 

The commitment they made by saying “Je” (“I do”, is that right?  That’s how Babel Fish translated it for me, I studied French and that doesn’t look right but that was almost 10 years ago so I’m very rusty) was to be connected in the way you describe.  Maybe you’re right and their marriage was only on paper, it shouldn’t be entered into that lightly.  They both thought they were in love with each other and wanted that commitment so it’s hard to say that and back myself up, but you know I’ll try.  That’s why you live with someone before you marry them, to sort all these types of things out .  Okay, maybe you don’t live with someone before you marry them (blasphemy and all) but you certainly date them for a little longer (regardless of how long you’ve known each other).  Especially with how much baggage was involved.  The first stages of a lot of relationships (before you learn of the other person’s faults) are like a fantasy world where both people are happy and content and see each other as perfect.  And Lorelai said repeatedly when she agreed to date Christopher that they would take things slow.  She knew the reasons this was important.  If she forgot them on a whim, that’s part of the problem in the first place.  It’s nice to be wistful and romantic but not to the extend of ignoring what’s really best for you.  I admire that Christopher said he pushed her too fast, that they both took the blame in that respect.  They both rushed into it when they knew very well they shouldn’t.  So that’s one redeeming factor.  Again, denial only pushes things so far out of our consciousness.  It doesn’t get rid of them completely. 

Ruined.  Eh, guess I exaggerated that one a little…again, someone always picks up on those .  I wouldn’t say that there were no negative consequences though.  Shaken up is a better term.  They’ll all take good lessons out of it regardless of the negative consequences.  Lorelai did change Luke and Christopher’s lives for the better through her actions (in the long term sense).  I usually find those actions to be justifiable.  But just because you realize you may have broken up with someone for the wrong reasons doesn’t make it okay, if we’re talking about that theory.  The ends don’t necessarily justify the means.  All three were ‘shaken up’ when their respective relationships ended, regardless of how long that shaken up period lasted.  Again, the lessons learned and growth in this case just doesn’t wipe out a broken engagement and a broken marriage. 

On the other hand Luke needed “time”.  So you could look at it as Lorelai giving him all the time in the world (another exaggeration). 

[lessa]

Their voeux de mariage would traditionally have been Je jure or je te jure. It's an idiom for swearing something.

[LostInside1324]

Anyone else notice that Logan is always begging Rory to take him back? It's like Rory thinks she never does anything wrong. I think it's very sweet that Logan is so willing to fight for her, but gosh, it's like he always has to explain himself for her to "take him back". Maybe a few of these times were justified, but I think this fight in particular is just Rory being much too cold, and not understanding enough. I mean, this was Logan's JOB, his future, his finally proving to everyone, including himself, that he's worth something.  I completely understand that he would get upset of screwing it up. Why can't Rory understand that?

Also, how long do ya'll think we'll have to wait for the two of them to get engaged? >.>

[AusGGaddict]

Ok, I am going to put another 2 cents worth on the Lorelai love triangle.  I know I haven't actually seen the episodes, but didn't Christopher push Lorelai quite firmly on the marriage idea?  Even though he knew that Lorelai had only just broken up with the man that she chose over Christopher when Emily & Richard renewed their vows?  He coerced her while she was still vulnerable, no one is in their right mind after a break up, let alone a break up with someone who you thought was 'the one'.  This was set up as a triangle right from the start.  Lorelai couldn't count on Christopher and when she though that maybe she could, he was with Sherry.  Christopher broke up with Sherry and wanted Lorelai, but she was with Luke.  Luke could never seem to pluck up the courage to start something with Lorelai and when he finally did and they were heading for the alter, April showed up.  In my opinion Christopher saw a chance and took it without much thought about what might happen next.  This was definitely a rebound relationship for Lorelai, she just didn't have the emotional clarity to recognise it.  If you recall, when she was in the back seat of the councellors car she said she did not want to wait anymore, she wanted to be married and she wanted to have another child.  She was forgetting that Luke had to wait patiently for Rory to come back before Lorelai would commit to a wedding date!!  But she wasn't giving him the same courtesy with April.  Lorelai's insecurities got in the way with all of her choices, but then this is not the first time.  The relationships we have seen Luke in before he was with Lorelai showed him to be very uncommited to those relationships and it's obvious that he was settling and both Rachel and Nicole told him as much.  Lukes marriage to Nicole was on an impulse and I think the same can be said for Lorelai's marriage to Christoper.

[ella]

On the subject of growth in this storyline: Lorelai and Luke had some serious problems in their engagement, and Lorelai had reason to believe the relationship was not ideal.  Rejecting a bad relationship, moving on to a new relationship and even finding out that the new relationship (though unfortunately it was a marriage) was not right, can all be considered growth.  But if Luke is it, Lorelai's ultimate destination and soulmate, then their problems were just a huge misunderstanding and rejecting Luke and marrying Christopher was a mistake and a form of digression or regression, not growth.  But if Luke is so ideal for Lorelai, why did they have so many problems?

The problem I have with the storyline and I’ve heard many other people say this too: it’s circular.  Probably ASP never should have broken up Lorelai and Luke and DR never should have married Lorelai and Christopher.  But those things happened.  And when you add new developments to the storyline, things change.  Lorelai and Luke's relationship was destroyed and Lorelai did move on.  To decide that Luke and Lorelai belong together just because of what they were and because of the potential they had, would be as foolish as Lorelai and Christopher trying to recreate a teenage relationship. 

If any "growth" has come out of the events of season 6 and 7, the mistakes and failures far outweigh it.  At the end of this season how will anyone be significantly different from, say, the end of Season 5 where Luke proposed?  If the end of the Luke and Lorelai relationship suggested that they were just incompatible, that's something learned--but it seems we're supposed to believe they are ideal for each other.  Lorelai has learned that she doesn't want to be with Christopher, but did wishful thinking about Christopher ever threaten her relationship with Luke?  As for Christopher, granted he now understands that he and Lorelai aren't meant to be but if Lorelai had married Luke he would have had to accept this as well, just in a slightly different way.

Now, no matter how strong their relationship becomes Luke and Lorelai will have some pretty painful memories of a very badly damaged relationship, Lorelai will be divorced and Christopher will be divorced twice.  Plus, is it really better to be married knowing for sure that you have no other "possibilities" out there?  I mean suppose Luke and Lorelai had married and years later Lorelai found herself a widow, wouldn't it have been wonderful for her if she had been able to reunite with Christopher and found that she could have two great loves in her life?

[coffee-coffee-22]

i love this show

[TreKat]

If anyone has screencaps from this episode email me please. lifekillsrebels@yahoo.com

I'm just looking for pictures of the onesies they showed at Lane's party..

[gilmore2972]

i love the bed seene

[Gilmore Gyrlie]

Lane's baby shower was cool and quirky, just like her.

Looks like Logan is falling back into bad habits, with Dumb and Dumber.

[thevoid99]

This was a pretty good episode.  OMG!!!!!  Did anyone see who was at the final scene at the party?

Geddy Lee!!!!  RUSH!!!!  Geddy Lee, bass player/vocalist from Rush man!  WOW!!!!! 

That just adds extra coolness to the show!!!!  Geddy Lee!!!!

I liked the conflict between Lane and Mrs. Kim and Lorelai having to mediate everything.  Plus, Lorelai mentioning that her mother missed a lot of things when Rory was little and didn't want the same thing to happen between Lane and Mrs. Kim.  That was good of Lorelai. 

Rory's job interview things seems good though what's going on with Logan doesn't seem good.  The old, reckless behavior is starting to crawl back.

My favorite thing about the episode is what Luke is doing.  I think Liz did a good thing in confronting him about their father.  She knew that Luke is just doing the same thing like their dad did and I think she got him to think about something.  I can't imagine Luke at Disneyworld or in Florida.  That's just weird.  Yet, I think what Luke did in just selling his father's boat like that was him realizing that he does need to change.  Not for his sister.  Not for April.  For himself.  I think that old boat really represented a lot of emotional baggage in relation to a lot of things in his life.  Giving it to Kirk seemed like the right thing because Kirk would have some use for it.  In getting the new boat just like that.  It's really Luke letting go of things in the past and just think about the future.  It's a step in the right direction for him to be himself.

For Lorelai though, it must've shocked her that Luke.  Someone who takes a long time to think things through just do something so unexpected, so spontaneous, and so unpredictable.  That must've surprised her.  When he said that things change.  I think she was a bit hurt because he just did that.  After all, she saved his boat in 5.10-Not Cute as Pushkin.  Yet, giving it to Kirk like that and getting a new one must've surprised her.  Yet, it's clear things between her and Luke aren't great either because she's getting a divorce and she is aware she messed things up with Luke.  At the same time, it shows that neither Luke and Lorelai are ready to get back together.  I mean, if they get back together right away.  What's going to happen?  Go back to the same old mess they went through for the past few years.  It can't be like that.  What Luke did for himself is to show that they can never really go back to the way things were.  I think for Lorelai, it kind of hurt because she was afarid of going back to Luke but now realizes that things won't be like they used to be.  Luke is starting to become a different person for himself.  I think if she wants to get back together with Luke, she needs to grow up a bit as well.