7.16 - Will You Be My Lorelai Gilmore?

[lsufan]

Not quite sure what you mean by 'they need to get on with it'.  Get on with what exactly?  And I do think we know a lot about what she thinks.  She broke up with Luke because she didn't think he really wanted to get married, rushed into marriage with Christopher on the rebound, discovered she couldn't make herself be in love with him just by sheer desire and willpower, and right now is struggling to get back in balance after the failure of the marriage.  That's a lot of stuff, and she did tell Miss Patty she was moving on.  But give her a bit of time, please.

But I feel as though I didn't understand her thought process through ANY of it, as though she is keeping it hidden. I didn't understand the horrific jump from issuing an ultimatim to Luke to sleeping with Chris in the same evening. Then from the intense regret of sleeping with Christopher to dating him and the rushed marriage. Then the rushed marriage falls apart nearly as quickly and she admits that there are still feelings there for Luke, which came as a surprise to me because she didn't show any signs of thinking of him that way. Maybe I shouldn't say that we don't have any idea what she thinks and feels, but that we don't have any idea if these thoughts and feelings are relevant or if they are based on something genuine or if they more of a reaction to outside influences. And how long are they true? A day? two? perhaps a week? a month?

I feel as though I have given her a bit of time. The season is nearly 75% done and I feel as though I understand Lorelai less than I did two minutes into the pilot episode.

Merely my opinion. Obviously most do not agree with me. Oh well.

[laurla205]

I get the changes from ultimatum: what she saw as the last attempt to make things work, to Christopher: sealing the deal on her and Luke being over and falling into comfortable arms, even to marrying him: they love(d) each other and he was offering what she wanted so badly at the time.  Most of this (not all) was said outright, it's after the marriage that I got lost.  That's when the regretful looks started.  Some of it was explained in Farewell My Pet, that L/C just didn't work together plain and simple (even though I feel there was lack of proof that they didn't work, it was enough for them so it has to be enough for me).  That still leaves plenty of mysterious looks to be interpreted.  And like I said earlier, now Luke's starting to have them (must be contagious, please don’t let Rory or Logan catch it).  I feel like these looks are intended (by TPTB) to be conveying more than I personally am able to take out of them.  I understand that Lorelai is trying to move on, but we haven't seen any beginning to resolution as far as her feelings are concerned, just one short conversation with Rory and a statement that she’s moving on.  A failed marriage is a lot to cope with even if it was for the wrong reasons in the first place.  I've taken to the theory that her feelings for Luke still being there is mainly to please most of the audience.  If that was intended to be the story arc (and that’s not clear either) from the beginning it's natural that it would finish that way, getting from point A to point B.  We just need more detail on how and why they get from point A to point B. 

You're not alone in your confusion even if we’re confused for different reasons.   

[lessa]

At least we have the option of seeing what happens next. Lorelai is pretty reliable about explaining her out-of-place reactions to Rory or Sookie after the fact. Luke is supposed to be all Stonehenge-y about his feelings, but his explanations after the fact make sense, and are at the same time so stupid you can understand why he kept his mouth shut.

It's kind of funny how in season six he was able to open up to so many of the people in his life and still keep Lorelai at arm's length. He settled with Jess, and was able to tell him how he felt about him and where they stood. He knew Rory's feelings well enough to stand up for them when she and Lorelai "broke up." And he may not be a perfect father yet, but he's been unstoppable in making up for lost time with April.

He was pretty goofy showing people how much he liked them, but they seemed to like it. Why would he think he had to hold it back in his relationship with Lorelai? It seems she was the only person with whom he still let nearly every opportunity to tell her how he felt about her and what he wanted for them slide.

[lsufan]

At least we have the option of seeing what happens next. Lorelai is pretty reliable about explaining her out-of-place reactions to Rory or Sookie after the fact. Luke is supposed to be all Stonehenge-y about his feelings, but his explanations after the fact make sense, and are at the same time so stupid you can understand why he kept his mouth shut.

It's kind of funny how in season six he was able to open up to so many of the people in his life and still keep Lorelai at arm's length. He settled with Jess, and was able to tell him how he felt about him and where they stood. He knew Rory's feelings well enough to stand up for them when she and Lorelai "broke up." And he may not be a perfect father yet, but he's been unstoppable in making up for lost time with April.

He was pretty goofy showing people how much he liked them, but they seemed to like it. Why would he think he had to hold it back in his relationship with Lorelai? It seems she was the only person with whom he still let nearly every opportunity to tell her how he felt about her and what he wanted for them slide.

That is what leads me to believe that this was pure ASP with her determination to keep the Luke/Lorelai relationship from being "mushy" in season 5 to the extent that it went so far the other way as to be ridiculous and OOC. And then her determination to destroy nearly everything she had created with season 6.

[lessa]

Maybe not. It could all make sense from a certain point of view. Luke's big roadblock to letting someone all the way in was his need to be able to go back to being the same old live-alone guy who only loved baseball and fishing if it didn't work out. He is without a clue in matters of romance and has such a bad track record that he thinks any relationship can go south at any time for any reason. He needs a fallback position.

The boat could have been a symbol of that the way Christopher was for Lorelai: as long as he had his father's boat, he could be like his father and take his feelings out in working on it. He is still connected to his father - doesn't the sign above Luke's indicate it's a hardware store? But he no longer has his symbol of isolation for when he screws up and has no one to turn to. Maybe he really doesn't need it anymore.

[uncledub]

one thing that i remembered today, when two mates of mine was talking today, one of them was talking about his fathers boat and whatever, and then i remembered about kirk's name of the boat, the writer screwed up, SS = Sailing Ship, MS = Motor Ship.

[ggrox]

I guess its the effect..and its also Kirk... who is pumped for tonite's eppi???

[~*emily*~]

I guess its the effect..and its also Kirk... who is pumped for tonite's eppi???

ME ME ME!!! i am so relieved the chris thing is over. tonight's episode looks like it's gonna be great i can't wait! the roadtrip looks funny and eventful. i hope logan patches up things with rory. i thought he was being so sweet and everything was going awesome. if only he hadn't decided to go to vegas... ugh... they better make up! and lane better pop out those kiddies quick since i was expecting it from this episode. this was a good epi, anyway, especially in the end. i didn't like the beginning that much. i mean, "do people really dress like babies?" come on. the the whole bed-throught-the-streets was cool and everything else that happened. exepct for the rogan thing, as previously mentioned.

[willowsprite]

Most of this (not all) was said outright, it's after the marriage that I got lost.  That's when the regretful looks started.  Some of it was explained in Farewell My Pet, that L/C just didn't work together plain and simple (even though I feel there was lack of proof that they didn't work, it was enough for them so it has to be enough for me).  That still leaves plenty of mysterious looks to be interpreted.  And like I said earlier, now Luke's starting to have them (must be contagious, please don’t let Rory or Logan catch it).  I feel like these looks are intended (by TPTB) to be conveying more than I personally am able to take out of them.  I understand that Lorelai is trying to move on, but we haven't seen any beginning to resolution as far as her feelings are concerned, just one short conversation with Rory and a statement that she’s moving on.  A failed marriage is a lot to cope with even if it was for the wrong reasons in the first place.  I've taken to the theory that her feelings for Luke still being there is mainly to please most of the audience.  If that was intended to be the story arc (and that’s not clear either) from the beginning it's natural that it would finish that way, getting from point A to point B.  We just need more detail on how and why they get from point A to point B. 

You're not alone in your confusion even if we’re confused for different reasons.   

Isufan, after reading your post and that of Laurla205, I get what you mean.  I agree with Laurla205, I get lost after the wedding, before I followed along with what I thought the implied reasons were (even if explained later).  But what went on with Chris, I gave in my post what I think is the writer's explanation for why the marriage ended, but that's just a guess.  And frankly it doesn't make good real life sense to me as was played out, but this is TV sense after all.  We know where a lot of us would like the L/L relationship to go, but whether it will and how fast is a puzzle. Which is probably how the GG powers that be like it.

[Ggirlfan]

Sorry to jump in here, and its been a rough day so maybe I'm just losing my mind, but has there been a thread started for tonights episode? I figured this would be the best place to post this since its about season seven???

[Niffykat]

I was hoping to see some discussion about tonights episode also,  I missed the first half

[ella]

Not quite sure what you mean by 'they need to get on with it'.  Get on with what exactly?  And I do think we know a lot about what she thinks.  She broke up with Luke because she didn't think he really wanted to get married, rushed into marriage with Christopher on the rebound, discovered she couldn't make herself be in love with him just by sheer desire and willpower, and right now is struggling to get back in balance after the failure of the marriage.  That's a lot of stuff, and she did tell Miss Patty she was moving on.  But give her a bit of time, please.

But I feel as though I didn't understand her thought process through ANY of it, as though she is keeping it hidden. I didn't understand the horrific jump from issuing an ultimatim to Luke to sleeping with Chris in the same evening. Then from the intense regret of sleeping with Christopher to dating him and the rushed marriage. Then the rushed marriage falls apart nearly as quickly and she admits that there are still feelings there for Luke, which came as a surprise to me because she didn't show any signs of thinking of him that way. Maybe I shouldn't say that we don't have any idea what she thinks and feels, but that we don't have any idea if these thoughts and feelings are relevant or if they are based on something genuine or if they more of a reaction to outside influences. And how long are they true? A day? two? perhaps a week? a month?

I feel as though I have given her a bit of time. The season is nearly 75% done and I feel as though I understand Lorelai less than I did two minutes into the pilot episode.

Merely my opinion. Obviously most do not agree with me. Oh well.

I think you're totally justified in having those opinions.  I feel exactly the same way, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that 7.14 didn't offer a full, perfect explanation for Lorelai's thoughts and emotions.  And I've seen others get totally frustrated, because every time they think they have a comprehensive explanation for Lorelai's actions, they find a detail that doesn't fit.  Every so often someone comes out and timidly suggests, maybe it's just bad writing and this story arc doesn't actually work as a whole.  I wish more people would admit that, I think it would save them a lot of mental stress!

I think the problem is I think the problem is that Lorelai has not really been given a consistent internal personality in the last little while.  If we were all blank faces who simply reacted to events (happy event = smile, sad event = frown) we wouldn't be individuals, we'd be robots.  People can act differently from time to time, but their basic motivations, fears, desires, etc. are somewhat constant.  That's what makes personality.   And that's what's missing from Lorelai.  We don't really know what she wants--is it Luke, Christopher, marriage, independence? And because Lorelai exhibits different desires and emotions in each episode, it doesn't seem like we're viewing one continuous person.

I get the changes from ultimatum: what she saw as the last attempt to make things work, to Christopher: sealing the deal on her and Luke being over and falling into comfortable arms, even to marrying him: they love(d) each other and he was offering what she wanted so badly at the time.  Most of this (not all) was said outright, it's after the marriage that I got lost.  That's when the regretful looks started.  Some of it was explained in Farewell My Pet, that L/C just didn't work together plain and simple (even though I feel there was lack of proof that they didn't work, it was enough for them so it has to be enough for me).  That still leaves plenty of mysterious looks to be interpreted.  And like I said earlier, now Luke's starting to have them (must be contagious, please don’t let Rory or Logan catch it).  I feel like these looks are intended (by TPTB) to be conveying more than I personally am able to take out of them.  I understand that Lorelai is trying to move on, but we haven't seen any beginning to resolution as far as her feelings are concerned, just one short conversation with Rory and a statement that she’s moving on.  A failed marriage is a lot to cope with even if it was for the wrong reasons in the first place.  I've taken to the theory that her feelings for Luke still being there is mainly to please most of the audience.  If that was intended to be the story arc (and that’s not clear either) from the beginning it's natural that it would finish that way, getting from point A to point B.  We just need more detail on how and why they get from point A to point B. 

You're not alone in your confusion even if we’re confused for different reasons.   

The marriage, exactly where I got lost too.  Up until then, I could make an argument for Lorelai's actions that made sense, whether or not it was a popular argument.  I think when Lorelai gave Luke the ultimatum, she really doubted that he'd ever make her a full partner in his life and even her desire to be with him was starting to fade.  I think only a really dramatic response by Luke would have been enough to override the doubts that had been building for months, and give her energy enough to fight for their relationship.  (Parallels with Christopher doubting that Lorelai wanted to be in their marriage?) When Luke didn't respond, that was it for Lorelai.

Then her running to Christopher...well, it isn't exactly the first time they slept together impulsively, so I can believe it.  At the same time, it made sense that she didn't want to start dating Chris so soon after a failed engagement.  When she did start to date Chris, forgive me for thinking that she was happy with Chris and while she still had unprocessed feelings about her relationship with Luke, she wasn't experiencing any romantic yearnings for him.

But I started to get lost at the Paris marriage.  I feel as though the writers themselves weren't certain about Lorelai's reasons for marrying Chris.  Either her romantic feelings for Luke had dissolved (even if she hadn't fully mourned their relationship) and she wanted to try again with Christopher because she'd always wanted to, deep down.  Which is a good argument for the need for closure with Christopher, right?  Then the end of their marriage could be explained by the fact that the Christopher Lorelai came to know as an adult just wasn't the person she thought she'd always wanted to be with.  And then she could fall in love with Luke all over again some time down the road, given time and personality change.

OR Lorelai had strong feelings for Luke that she simply "buried" because she thought he didn't want to marry her.  And just "settled" for Christopher because he was her "option B".  But if that were the case, there would be no need for closure with Christopher.  If she never really wanted to be with Christopher as much she wanted to be with Luke (as many here and elsewhere have argued), there was no need for this storyline, because any "what ifs" about Christopher wouldn't have been strong enough to threaten her relationship with Luke.

I agree that 7.14 did its best to explain why the L/C relationship was necessary and why it failed, but to me it still didn't make up for the all-over-the-place writing in previous episodes.  I was scratching my head thinking, "yes I saw the rushing part, but these feelings for Luke and this 'it's not right' didn't seem to fit with what was shown earlier on."  Of course it's too late now, but I really wish some of these reasons could have been hinted at while they were dating.  Because I saw them as a good couple, at least at one point, without issues and unresolved feelings hanging over their heads.  Now possibly the happy, 100% unconflicted scenes with Lorelai and Christopher were few enough that most people can gloss over them and take the explanation that accounts for the majority of the scenes.  I guess I just can't forget those other scenes in there.

So while I give the writers credit for giving possibly the best explanation anyone could give, no explanation could be comprehensive enough to account for everything in the past storyline.  It simply contained too many blatant contradictions.  Which to me is a sign of bad writing and that the storyline never totally "worked."  I think we just have to go with the explanation from Farewell My Pet, ignore details that don't fit, and move on from there.

[lukenlorelai4ever5]

Yes, it seems like the writing is getting worse this year...

[elocin]

this is a great episode...one of the better ones for the season! but it drives me insane, the little previews they do after each episode? because sometimes i can't watch them (which sux BIG TIME) and then it drives me insane...lol.

[lukenlorelai4ever5]

this is a great episode...one of the better ones for the season! but it drives me insane, the little previews they do after each episode? because sometimes i can't watch them (which sux BIG TIME) and then it drives me insane...lol.

I concur, I sometimes miss the episodes because of school and then I miss the promos!  It makes me angry!  I sometimes can catch them on youtube though, but I usually have to wait a few days.  I think that's the best way to see the promos and the episodes if you have to miss.  They are pretty efficient at getting them up on the site. That's what I would reccommend.  This week, in case you missed, they had no promo so I wouldn't bother going on youtube to try and find it, but just for future reference.