7.11 - Santa's Secret Stuff

[Heidi]

Oh my!  What fast service.

Thank you! 

~Heidi

[Devilina07]

Well, the engagement was definitely over. I don't think of it as cheating because she had no intention of ever sleeping with Luke again when she did it. I doubt this is the first time Luke's been dumped because he couldn't hold up his end of a breakup speech.

Besides, if they were still engaged when she slept with Chris then why wouldn't they still be engaged after Luke found out about it? He didn't want to marry her because she slept with Christopher, but that's not saying much since he didn't want to marry her to begin with.

How can you infer that "she had no intention of ever sleeping with Luke again" when this isn't exactly clear either.  She had her feelings hurt and possibly out of an act of desperation and to feel wanted she saddled up to Christopher.  She broke off their engagement but that doesn't necessarily mean that things could have been talked through in some adult fashion.  Luke had wanted to marry Lorelai but the circumstances of their trio (I'm including Rory into this equation) changed once April was introduced.  I've mentioned before that I think that it was the right thing to do as far as postponing the wedding in order to better know his new daughter.  It was the events after where it seemed everyone screwed up.

[lessa]

She also said she needed it to be over because she couldn't cling to his bumper on the road of life. Compared to true interdependence implicit in the "whole package" she wants (which Luke knew perfectly well,) asking for a piece of paper that says he's still even headed that direction wasn't much to ask.

The only "should have" I mentioned was that Luke should have been considering (or at least remembering) his marriage while it was still in front of him. Lorelai said he needed to figure out where April fit into their lives and not the other way around, but he wasn't even doing that. If Luke had even tried to work out how Lorelai fit into his and April's life together, he could have offered her something.

I don't see the ultimatum as sudden because this had been going on for a long time already. She couldn't call him out on it because he wasn't doing anything wrong, just intentionally disincluding her in business he considered delicate and private. His life doesn't revolve around her feelings, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have any.

The irony, I suppose being, when Luke told Liz about it, he said he was keeping it a secret because he was afraid of how April would affect him and Lorelai as a couple. He must have Gilmore blood or something.

[Alexandria]

I don't see the ultimatum as sudden because this had been going on for a long time already. She couldn't call him out on it because he wasn't doing anything wrong, just intentionally disincluding her in business he considered delicate and private. His life doesn't revolve around her feelings, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have any.

The irony, I suppose being, when Luke told Liz about it, he said he was keeping it a secret because he was afraid of how April would affect him and Lorelai as a couple. He must have Gilmore blood or something.

I don't feel that the ultimatum was sudden either. It didn't just come the day after she found out about April. It came after a series of events, including her accidental discovery of April and then Luke admitting that he had known about April for two months and had kept it from Lorelai. The ultimatum also came after Luke had been away with April on a field trip and a confrontation Lorelai had had with Anna.

I don't think Luke's entire life should be about how Lorelai feels, but if he loved her then he should be thinking at least a little bit about how she was feeling. That is part of being in a relationship: Thinking about how your actions might affect your partner's. And from his conversation with Liz, he obviously had some guilt over keeping April a secret from Lorelai so he cared for her feelings in that regard. He just didn't know how to handle them, while simultaneously dealing with Lorelai's feelings. So I think that is at least part of what Lorelai was fed up about and gave Luke the ultimatum. As she told Sookie in season 7, that she felt like she wasn't even in the car with Luke anymore but barely hanging onto the bumper of the car.

[ggrox]

The ultimatum was sudden to luke obviously...but lorelai kept her feelings bottled up and she didn't let luke know how she was feelings (well, kind of in Vineyard valentine) but, I have hearda lot of ppl blame it on luke, but I don't think it was entirely his fault.Yes, he should have given a thought about how Lorelai feels, but she never told him how she was feeling. Thats lorelai, she keeps things inside until they all come out at once. If L/L get back together *crosses fingers* then Luke will definitly be more tuned in to her feelings, my worry is that the writers will make him too worried about her feelings...hopefully the writers won't do that *crosses toes*

[Alexandria]

The ultimatum was sudden to luke obviously...but lorelai kept her feelings bottled up and she didn't let luke know how she was feelings (well, kind of in Vineyard valentine) but, I have hearda lot of ppl blame it on luke, but I don't think it was entirely his fault.Yes, he should have given a thought about how Lorelai feels, but she never told him how she was feeling. Thats lorelai, she keeps things inside until they all come out at once. If L/L get back together *crosses fingers* then Luke will definitly be more tuned in to her feelings, my worry is that the writers will make him too worried about her feelings...hopefully the writers won't do that *crosses toes*

I didn't mean to point blame completely to Luke. I don't feel that way at all because I think fault for the relationship problems lies with both of them. It takes two to tango, right?

I agree with your points about Lorelai, that she could've tried harder to express her feelings to Luke about how she was feeling left out or excluded from his life in regards to April just as he could've tried harder to consider her feelings and what she might be thinking about the April situation.

I think that when they get back together, they will need to address the relationship and communication issues that they each have.

[ggrox]

i wasn't blaming you for blaming luke *takes a deep breath* i do think it falls on them equally tho

[ouiwiththepoodles]

who else wanted 2 cry when Loralei was walking the letter out to the mailbox?
but OMG i cant wait 2 c the fight between Loralei and Chris

Luke+Loralei=LOVE!!!

[shadow_geek]

Someone needs to give Chris a little bit of cancer so that he could cool off his jets. The paranoia is pathetic. It's almost seems as if he's searching for reasons to get angry with her, to push her away in the same way that he suspects she will (hm?).

And the grandfather cannot die. Loralie has gone through enough. Through the course of about two episodes, she'll be losing both someone she is constantly dissapointed by (Chris) and someone who can appreciate the modesty and beauty of a 1990 tv set (her grandfather).

That's one heck of a trade-off.

[Luke Danes Fan]

When Lorelai needed time until Rory came back, Luke was there for her 100%. He wanted to get married. He wanted to go through with everything, but he stopped and gave Lorelai the space she needed. Why couldn't Lorelai have given him that same space? He's the one who was dealing with the real pressure. Can anyone join the "Gilmore Girls"? Can Lorelai actually make that big commitment?

[lessa]

That was different. Lorelai had hope that Rory would get straight and come home. The situation with April kept escalating with Luke pushing her further and further away the more into his parental responsibilities he got.

I saw the ultimatum as Lorelai expressing her feelings. She could have told him sooner that she was feeling left out, but I don't think it would have changed anything. What could Luke have done to assure her besides going ahead and marrying her? Why would he have said yes just because she asked quieter?

[LovesToRead]

That was different. Lorelai had hope that Rory would get straight and come home. The situation with April kept escalating with Luke pushing her further and further away the more into his parental responsibilities he got.

I saw the ultimatum as Lorelai expressing her feelings. She could have told him sooner that she was feeling left out, but I don't think it would have changed anything. What could Luke have done to assure her besides going ahead and marrying her? Why would he have said yes just because she asked quieter?

I agree 100%.  And Lorelai did express her feelings to him and he told her he loved her and wanted to marry her.  However, actions speak louder than words.  He said he wanted to marry her but wasn't taking any action in that direction.  I don't think her saying it differently would have done anything either.  He was focused solely on April and had effectively cut her out of his life.  Lorelai is not the type of person to take the back burner.  I don't think it was a good idea for her to jump into Christopher's bed right after but I don't think she was going to get the results she wanted no matter what she did.



 

[Luke Danes Fan]

That was different. Lorelai had hope that Rory would get straight and come home. The situation with April kept escalating with Luke pushing her further and further away the more into his parental responsibilities he got.

Yes it was different. Lorelai's approach was to sit back and do nothing, Rory would eventually realize on her own what a big mistake she made and come back.

Then when Luke was doing other things like re-modeling the house so they could live there once they eventually get married, she ran around helping everyone else, except Luke.

Now Luke was make efforts to get closer to April, so they could get back on track. He was actually taking an active part in what he was doing so they could get married. He wasn't sitting around and waiting for April and Anna to come to him, he set up things, volunteered things, he wanted to bond with April.

I saw the ultimatum as Lorelai expressing her feelings. She could have told him sooner that she was feeling left out, but I don't think it would have changed anything. What could Luke have done to assure her besides going ahead and marrying her? Why would he have said yes just because she asked quieter?

She never should have given him the ultimatum. She knows Luke doesn't like them, and can't deal with them, it's why they broke up the last time. On top of the ultimatum she drops the whole talking with Anna behind his back bomb also. She sabatoged everything.

Plus by that time Luke was willing to let Lorelai in, Anna was the one who had the problem with it, not him, and she ignored him after she found out Anna didn't like her being a part of the party. Luke reached out to talk to her numerous times, and she ducked him. He was ready to bring her into his relationship with April, which would have been one step closer to getting married, but Lorelai went and gave Luke the ultimatum, dropped the Anna bomb then jumped into bed with Christopher.

I agree 100%. And Lorelai did express her feelings to him and he told her he loved her and wanted to marry her. However, actions speak louder than words. He said he wanted to marry her but wasn't taking any action in that direction. I don't think her saying it differently would have done anything either. He was focused solely on April and had effectively cut her out of his life. Lorelai is not the type of person to take the back burner. I don't think it was a good idea for her to jump into Christopher's bed right after but I don't think she was going to get the results she wanted no matter what she did.

How about fixing up the house so they could live there after they get married? That's an action. Like I said above, Lorelai was the one who didn't do anything, she wouldn't make a decission on paint, yet helped her everyone else decide what color would look best in their house.

How about him actually making the effort to get to know his daughter? That's an action. Again when they were waiting for Lorelai and Rory to reunite, Lorelai sat there and was waiting for Rory to come to her own senses, she didn't take action to repair that rift, she just waited. While Luke actually went out to forge his relationship. Luke waited for Lorelai when she did nothing, the least she could have done was wait for Luke esspecially since she could see he was making every effort he could.

[LovesToRead]

How about fixing up the house so they could live there after they get married? That's an action. Like I said above, Lorelai was the one who didn't do anything, she wouldn't make a decission on paint, yet helped her everyone else decide what color would look best in their house.

How about him actually making the effort to get to know his daughter? That's an action. Again when they were waiting for Lorelai and Rory to reunite, Lorelai sat there and was waiting for Rory to come to her own senses, she didn't take action to repair that rift, she just waited. While Luke actually went out to forge his relationship. Luke waited for Lorelai when she did nothing, the least she could have done was wait for Luke esspecially since she could see he was making every effort he could.

Yes, those are all actions but they were all pre-April.  And trying to bond with April wasn't a step towards getting married.  In fact, it was several steps back. 

And I never saw the paint thing as her avoiding helping with the house.  It's not like she wasn't trying to pick a color for the house, she was just having a really hard time doing it. 

[Luke Danes Fan]

Yes, those are all actions but they were all pre-April.  And trying to bond with April wasn't a step towards getting married.  In fact, it was several steps back. 

Luke wanted the marriage to put the marriage on hold until he sorted things out with April. How is bonding with her a step back? He told Lorelai he wanted to get married, but he needed some time to get to know his daughter and get things situated with her. Luke bonding with April is him taking an action towards getting married, not a step backwards, he even started to include Lorelai, another step forward.

And I never saw the paint thing as her avoiding helping with the house.  It's not like she wasn't trying to pick a color for the house, she was just having a really hard time doing it. 

She was avoiding. She placed her trying to pick  color on the back burner, and helped everyone else, so she could keep it on the back burner.