7.10 - Merry Fisticuffs

[laurla205]

this episode seemed a little odd to me. the way lucy totally freaked about rory and marty pretending to not know each other didn't make that much sense because I didn't think it was that big of a deal. and then neither lucy or  her roomate would even let rory explain any thing.

I have not finished reading all of the posts yet, so apologies if this has already been said.  I think Lucy's reaction was totally appropriate.  Okay, maybe she took it a little too far by refusing to hear an explanation, but I know I wouldn't be too happy to find out my boyfriend and new friend have been lying to me about having known each other for years (we are talking years here not just a couple months or something).  I would definitely think there was something going on or else why hide it in the first place?  I do not like that Rory played along with that lie at all.  Kudos to Logan for blowing the top off of it, as someone else mentioned I don't know if I trust Rory to tell Lucy herself.  

[peaceful]

The way i feel about the Lucy situation is as follows

Lucy hasnt been friends with Rory for that long and in Lucy's eyes I think that getting betrayed this early on maybe says something.  I think Lucy should dump rory as a friend

[lessa]

Well, Lucy's reaction would have made perfect sense if it had been Jess and they'd been hiding their torrid high school romance and Jess's role in her problems with Logan. Come to think of it, that would have snapped Logan's reaction into place, too: What did Marty ever do to him?

Maybe the trust fund shot really burned because of the events of last week's episode (two weeks ago in the timeline, anyone else catch that?) But Logan was being pretty cool about the fact that Marty had to work really hard to go to Yale. The old Logan would have said something mean about one of those jobs being his true calling instead of... well, whatever his actual major is. I missed it if they said.
Anyway, Logan had an easy out on the secrecy thing- Lucy had already figured Rory and Marty had met, and stretching it to include Marty introducing them and Rory forgetting about it would have been a snap without telling a bald-faced lie. I've been in Logan's shoes too many times to believe he was thinking lofty thoughts about honesty when he humiliated Lucy by blowing the whistle on his girlfriends' deception. He may have been 'within his rights' but what he did was petty, insecure, unnecessarily cruel, and none of his business to do.

Besides, if he liked Lucy so much, why didn't he come to her birthday party?

On the flip side, it wasn't that big a deal. It would have come out anyway, eventually, and I don't think any amount of tact would have prevented Lucy feeling betrayed. It bugs me that Logan could get so angry on the inside that he would want to be the agent that brought that about, but I'm sure Rory has lain awake a few nights figuring out how to deal with it.

[allalone]

So that epsiode, swell huh.

Like most others, I agree that Gilmore Girls is losing its spark.  It used to be about the girls, but now it seems that the only thing that defines the girls are the boys.  Stars hollow is seeming pretty empty these day, probably because of the lack of ASP.  The fight between Luke and Chris just felt empty, there was no background music to give it that fun stars hollow laughter in the background.  It was just a pointless catfight that only felt gilmorish when the tinkling christmas in the background began to kick up.

The producers want us to know that Luke is really the right guy for Loralai, but they are feeding us these story lines that jump all over the place. We missed out on the trip to paris, we missed out on the wedding, we missed out on Lane getting bigger, we missed out on everything.  What happened to the slow moiving stars hollow? We are just made to assume now that time had passed magically and what we hear on screen happened some brief time before.  That's where this season has failed to connect to viewers.  They give us episodes, but with vital episodes missing in between.

Loralai in her selfish ways has been proven to be childish and subserviant this season.  She is changing who she is to please Chris when we as viewers know that Loralai has been and always will be an independent woman.  She will not give in so easily, and to let her give in to marriage with Chris is just absurd.  Rory on the otherhand, though not the innocent girl she was in high school, has become more and more like her mother.  Why would she lie to Lucy? In earlier seasons, Rory wouldn't have done so.  I know, we can all say that people change, but what we liked best about Rory was that although she was a nerd, she did what was best and stood up for it. Logan was right to tell Lucy how they met, and if Rory cannot believe that, then she too has turned her back on what she originally stood for.

I don't know, I think we need some more fast talking between the folks in gilmore girls. The talking has been slow while the pace of the storylines has been unusually fast.  Infusing it with some feel-good music and just more crazy nonsense from the town will help brighten up the whole environment.  Cause truth be told, we all watch because of what it presented to us in the past, and if it weren't for that we would dump gilmore girls in a secoond.

[ella]

I think a few people have mentioned that Christopher is acting immature in this episode.  I didn’t see that happening too much to tell you all the truth.  I think he senses that something is up with Lorelai.  He’s professed his love to her and she is not reciprocating in the same manner that he loves her.  I would get upset as well.  I wouldn’t say that it is immaturity that he is showing but rather frustration at the fact that Lorelai doesn’t seem to be into their marriage.  

I totally agree!  Well, I do think he is acting immature, but I can see his reasons.  When someone tells you they love you and wants to spend the rest of their life with you, you expect them to act that way, and Lorelai isn't.  She's acts like she married Chris just so he could be around--she's happy with him as long as every other aspect of her life stays exactly the way it always has been.  And married life isn't like that.

Lastly, would the entire series sink if things actually worked out between Christopher and Lorelai?  Isn’t the point of us liking the show to have Rory and Lorelai be happy?  I really want Luke and Lorelai to get back together again but not through some artificial and contrived means.  I want this whole story fleshed out before we go at light-speed towards reconciliation between Luke and Lorelai.  Christopher’s character at least deserves that much.

I agree, and disagree.  I've come to realize that people watch a TV show not so much because they want the characters to be happy, but because they want to see their fantasies fulfilled.  And most people have been wanting Luke and Lorelai to be married for so long that they feel cheated if this doesn't happen.  The way people treated Christopher in Stars Hollow last week is the way many fans want to treat Christopher--like he's an "outsider" on the show and doesn't belong with Lorelai.  But in real life, people shouldn't treat other people that way.

If Gilmore Girls was real life, and I truly cared about the people in Stars Hollow, I would not want Lorelai and Chris to divorce.  Since they're married now, whether I thought it was a wise decision or not, I'd want them to really work at their marriage, because they have a very long, complicated, and painful history, and divorce will not make it any better.  Also, a divorce would affect many people other than themselves--Gigi, Rory, the elder Gilmores, Luke, all of Lorelai's friends who will have to be her support system when her marriage breaks up.  But if they really couldn't make the marriage work, I'd hope to see them treat each other with a degree of maturity when they did divorce.  Nor would I want to see Lorelai going back to Luke, at least not anytime soon.  But that's assuming I care about the emotional wellbeing of each of the characters, which most people really don't, because this isn't real life.  There are only a few months left before the last episode of the season and if it's the last season, we probably will see that "light-speed reconciliation."

[Dani257]

I also think that the situation between Rory, Logan, Lucy, and BFL might be blown out of proportion.  People are saying either, "oh no, will Rory and Logan break up?" or "Rory and Logan should break up!" over one fight.  Logan spoke out of turn.  It doesn't, in my opinion, make him unsuitable for Rory.  It also does not put their relationship on the rocks.  Take any couple that's been together and people are going to fight and say the wrong thing and do things that you want to slap them for (not that I personally want to slap anyone) but it's something you work out.  Yes, I would have preferred that they had fixed things in this episode, but if they do break up over this (since who knows what writers have in mind) after everything else they've been through, I won't just be disappointed over the fact they broke up, I'll find the reason to be a very poor one.  

And, am I the only one who doesn't think that it's a sure thing that Rory and Lucy's friendship is ruined?  Setting aside whether it's justified or logical, Lucy is mad.  People get mad.  While it's a possibility that she'll never forgive Rory, there's also the equal possibility that after a few days, she'll calm down and accept Rory's apology.  Sometimes people do need a few days.

And, screw it.  I like Christopher, Logan, Rory/Logan, Rory in seasons 6 and 7 better than Rory in seasons 3-5.  I'm Miss Unpopular Opinion.  So, me finding the nickname Boyfriend to be cute is small potatoes.  So, on that subject, I don't think the nickname suggests a lack of commitment or wanting to show off that she has a boyfriend.  I don't think it's any deeper than three things.  1.  Initially for the surprise factor for those viewers who weren't spoiled that Marty was going to appear when he came back.  2.  It's a nickname, plain and simple.  Some people may hate it (and I totally get that, because believe me, I'm still not sure why I like it) but I don't think it means anything.  It's no different than Ace (but I know many people hate the nickname Ace) or any other nickname.  3.  It's silly, like Lucy.

Maybe I like it because I have a strange aversion to "normal" nicknames between couples.  Babe, baby, those things make my skin crawl.  Compared to those, "Boyfriend" is freaking Shakespeare to me.

Besides, if he liked Lucy so much, why didn't he come to her birthday party?

Because he didn't know Lucy then.  You can't like someone you've never met.  He met her in this episode, he hit it off with her at the dinner and he said he thought she was a nice girl.  Plus, he had a business dinner when she had her birthday party (which again, at that point she was a stranger -he hadn't set eyes on her at that point).

And are people so one dimensional that they can't both feel that they don't want to be part of a lie to someone who seems like a nice person (again, based on their initial meeting) and to also be jealous?  Does one emotion or motivation exclude the other?

[Aimmers514]

As I keep reading these entries...

Everybody always blames Christopher for what happened with Lorelai's life when something goes wrong and what a bad guy he is.  Well, yes I think he is to blame for some of the issues.  BUT he's not the only one involved.  Lorelai makes the decisions as well.  She's the one that does what she wants.

In this episode, both Lorelai and Christopher are at fault.  She shouldnt try to 'hide' or 'downplay' their marriage.  And Christopher should know her better enough not to want to get a house outside of Stars Hollow.

And technically, when she went over to Christopher's the night she gave the choice to Luke to get married that day or that's it.  They were over.  He made the decision to end their relationship by not going after Lorelai. 

Let's just hope the writers finally get Lorelai back into a great place.

[wildfleurcotage]

I love Luke w/ Lorelai and will never get used to her & Chris married. Hes ok when they are friends but not married. Im curious about Rory & Logan & where they will end up. I want to see more of the "old" Gilmore girls, don't like seeing them falling apart so mucg because of their men.

[lessa]

I also think that the situation between Rory, Logan, Lucy, and BFL might be blown out of proportion.  People are saying either, "oh no, will Rory and Logan break up?" or "Rory and Logan should break up!" over one fight.  Logan spoke out of turn.  It doesn't, in my opinion, make him unsuitable for Rory.  It also does not put their relationship on the rocks.  Take any couple that's been together and people are going to fight and say the wrong thing and do things that you want to slap them for (not that I personally want to slap anyone) but it's something you work out.  Yes, I would have preferred that they had fixed things in this episode, but if they do break up over this (since who knows what writers have in mind) after everything else they've been through, I won't just be disappointed over the fact they broke up, I'll find the reason to be a very poor one. 

I don't know if it makes him unsuitable... yet. He was wrong to out Rory and Marty because she'd already said she was going to fix it, and he'd gone along with it. Rory has no grounds for yelling at him or anything, but he still knocked her feet out from under her without apologizing, which to me means he has some unresolved issue about the situation.

What I'm saying is, whether Rory will break up with Logan over this may not be the hot topic- Logan is obviously much angrier about Rory forgetting to mention that Marty was back in her life than he admitted. Unless he can work through that, he might break up with her.

[laurla205]

The way i feel about the Lucy situation is as follows

Lucy hasnt been friends with Rory for that long and in Lucy's eyes I think that getting betrayed this early on maybe says something.  I think Lucy should dump rory as a friend

Yes, exactly.  I understand and agree that Logan should not have aired all of this out while they were out to dinner but he was kind of up against a wall and you can't expect him to lie for everyone, especially Marty after the couple jabs at Logan.  Lies on top of lies just make the situation worse and harder to explain later, much less have the offended party believe a word after being fed so many lies.  Yes Rory told him about it before hand but he's a blurt-out-whatever's-on-his-mind-regardless-of-who-it affects kinda guy.  Yes, his reasoning afterward may have been tainted (kinda missed the fight after, friend crisis, thank god for the DVR I'll re-watch tonight) but it shouldn't have gone on any longer, much less at all.  Whew, that was a lot of yeses.

I've read almost all of the posts now (yes all!) except for the last few that have been posted as I type.  Very very good points from all sides, I don't know exactly what to make of everything now  .  Emily's speech.  I liked it.  I think Lorelai needed to hear it.  You should be happy in a marriage.  But when you enter a marriage you need to enter it knowing that it's right and willing to make changes/do things to make the other person happy.  And she let Chris change her mind (notice I don't say persuade, she made the decision to say yes) and rush into it without thinking it over and now she's feeling the effects.  Righfully so, it shouldn't be taken lightly, Emily had a point there, and I think they both rushed it and didn't think of the after-effects.  I was somewhat surprised to hear Emily say she liked Chris.  Not because I thought she didn't like him I've always thought she preferred him to Luke, but because of the comments she made about him just prior to that during her speech.  I also think that it is a big change for her, she's never been married, let alone lived with someone else and she does need time to adjust.  I don't think chris is being to pushy but I think that he can sense something's wrong and is freaking out.  And we assume what's wrong is that they're not meant for each other but maybe it's just that Lor needs a lot more time to adjust, this is a big change for her.

I liked the fight.  It was hillarious and I was cheering for Luke all along, seems like nothing can go right for him at the moment.  I don't hate Chris and I won't go out of my way bash him I just think he's a victim of circumstance.  He enters into everything with the best of intentions and doesn't think about the consequences, see my theme?  But I can't help to think that Lor enabled everything that's going down right now.  I mean, she ran to Chris, right?  Can't blame her, he's always been her safety net kinda...

That's all for now because I feel like I just wrote a novel and I need to learn about community points because I just lost my only one   

[baileysmit]

i was on the floor laughing soo hard last night during the luke/ crhistopher fight!!!   i do feel sorry for lucy but i don't think olivia should hav been so cold to rory. logan should hav said something like "we met at the paper" or something think like that.  marty and rory should have told lucy that they hav been friends since freashman year.  and wat was with emily showing up at lorelai's house out of no where.  don't u think lorelai would hav seen her car??? and the out of nowhere chris wanting a baby? i am sooo with lorelai on being mad at him.  he should not hav gotten mad at her like that.

 

[ggrox]

i was on the floor laughing soo hard last night during the luke/ crhistopher fight!!!   i do feel sorry for lucy but i don't think olivia should hav been so cold to rory. logan should hav said something like "we met at the paper" or something think like that.  marty and rory should have told lucy that they hav been friends since freashman year.  and wat was with emily showing up at lorelai's house out of no where.  don't u think lorelai would hav seen her car??? and the out of nowhere chris wanting a baby? i am sooo with lorelai on being mad at him.  he should not hav gotten mad at her like that.

 

omg i totally agree, notice how chris is so impatient....first he wants to get married, now he wants to have kids!!!? he is always moving way too fast. whats with "its always about you" HE is the one that wanted to get married, HE is the one who wants a baby, why should he be mad at her?!! what is she supposed to say "yeah, sorry for not wanting to have a baby" she is the one who has to actually have the baby anyway. besides, i wouldn't want to have another baby w/ chris anyways, considering what he did last time. chris was also really immature..a bar?? THE FIGHT WITH lUKE!! (even tho that was funny)
DIE CHRIS!!!! 

[Devilina07]

Ok so um ya. Chris is pushing way to much change at Lor, maybe they should wait a minute befor they start moving and changing everything. Poor Luke with April. Anna had no right I mean no right to do what she did. It is not Luke's fault that he has not been April's life that was Anna's decession and he can't be blamed for that. Everyone is forgetting about April and her needs and wants. She is old enough to know what she needs.

But as a minor, she has to do as her mother is told.  She can't divorce herself from Anna because Anna thus far has been a good mom.  Anna does have a right as April's guardian to decide where she is going to live.  And if Anna felt threatened by Luke, then she does have the right to restrict visits.  They are not under some court order to allow visitations.  And until that time comes, Anna is really under no obligation to let Luke see her child.  It's just the way that things go here.  Luke is under the burden to prove that he is a suitable father that is allowed rights of a parent in the eyes of the law.

[jayde]

A lot more to talk about, but I'm still debating.  I don't like the idea that Lorelai is going to get a divorce and then go running to Luke.  Marriage is a big deal and I hate that she entered it lightly, is going to exit it lightly and overall, have experienced it without any major negative benefits.  They are treating marriage like buying a car.  You get one, don't like it, sell it back, possibly at a loss, but how much worse off are you? Not much.  I think that marriage is more than that and I don't like the light tone it has taken with the Lorelai/Chris marriage. 

Wow, I could not agree with this statement more!  I've read that this marriage is part of Lorelai's "journey" to show how she and Chris could never be married. But marriage isn't just part of a "journey".  It's not something you try out to see if it works.  That's why it really bothes me when I see people saying "Divorce!  Divorce!  Get her back with Luke!"  People just want Luke and Lorelai back together at any cost because they think they're soulmates.  You can decide who your soulmate is before you get married; but once you're married, the person you should be with is your husband.  Lorelai and Chris dating and breaking off their relationship because they realized it wouldn't work would have shown maturity and respect for each other. Then, Lorelai and Luke could have (possibly) slowly resolved all the conflicts that broke them apart and enjoyed a stable marriage. But Lorelai and Chris impulsively marrying and hastily divorcing shows that: a) Chris is, was, and always will be immature and is doomed to have marriages that fail (which I hate because I still like Chris and felt he'd matured over the years); and b) Lorelai cannot be without a man and will do anything to be with one, until he shows that he is less than perfect, in which case it is time for a new one.  How can people want Luke and Lorelai together when Lorelai has ceased to be admirable?

Wow. Thanks to both of you for saying what I've been trying to say for weeks but haven't had much success with. I blame school. Brain mushy.

This (doomed) marriage is being seen as a part of a journey which is belittling the whole marriage thing. Is this because Lorelai being engaged pretty much doesn't mean much anymore and they had to up the ante? And the Luke and Lorelai reunion just isn't going to feel real to me because why should Lorelai take a marriage to Luke seriously? Right now Lorelai and Chris eventually splitting will seem due to Lorelai's inability to be honest and to take marriage seriously, not because Chris is an unreliable ass. If this is the case, then if she and Luke were to marry, then all she needs is a big enough disagreement and a reason for her slowly pull away from the relationship. A lot of the L/L shippers seem to have pure belief that Luke and Lorelai will get back together and live.. well happily ever after. I'm just having a hard time jumping on that bandwagon.

[conradv]

...A lot of the L/L shippers seem to have pure belief that Luke and Lorelai will get back together and live.. well happily ever after. I'm just having a hard time jumping on that bandwagon.

But by the time that it happens (and the way things are looking now, it will), she will be a much different person than she is now.  Luke is already a different person than he was in season 6.  I don't like them turning Chris into an evil guy to get to that point though.