Reconcilers (Emily and Richard) - You've been Gilmore'd

[Shelly]

I am the biggest Richard Gilmore fan ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh I love Kelly Bishop too she is the greatest. The show would not be the huge sucess that it is, if it weren't for Kelly and Ed.  I can't imagine them selling there beautiful home in Hartford to move to Stars Hollow.  Back to Ed Herrmann I often tune into the history channel to see if he is narrating an episode, I love to hear him speak.  I bought the movie The Cat's Meow because he is in it.  Anything that he is in I like (just because he is in it).  I love when they have them dancing together, that is great.
They need to use them more, Kelly and Ed make the show.

I loved Ted Koppel's Big Night Out.  Richard looked  awesome in his Yale stadium coat and hat. They need to have him less formal,  DITCH THE BOW TIE RICHARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I loved when he sang the Yale fight song that was priceless.  Like I said ,he is AMAZING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kukalaka]

Wow, that were many exclamation points!   

But you're right, Edward Herrmann is great.

[thelostgilmoregirl]

I think Kelly Bishop and Edward Herrmann are very talented.  Its great to have them on the show.  Although sometimes Emily annoys me I still know what great actors the two of the are.  Without them the show would'nt be the same.

[MikeinLA]

Just generally: Edward Herrmann and Kelly Bishop are marvelous thespians who flesh out and bring to life two very complex and fascinating characters. Now that we've been watching them for six seasons, it's difficult to imagine anyone else playing either role.

I really came back to this thread to bump it up and add to my thoughts about these great characters.

In a way, Richard and Emily are the foundation for the show. To appreciate the strength and resourcefulness of Lorelai, for instance, you have to see where she came from. She gets her iron will from Emily and her brilliance from Richard. Kids aren't just copies of their parents, of course, so Lorelai added her own personality, which included being fiercely independent. Being overly protected and regimented, she felt smothered and threw off the traces and went wild. Getting herself knocked up probably wasn't specifically what she had in mind, but it was kind of a believable result of generally rebellious and reckless behavior.

Richard Gilmore is admirable in many ways. He evidently began his own insurance agency and had to borrow a sum from his mother, which he repaid in a few weeks. From this, he built a successful life and provided a fine home for his family. For this to be believable, he has to be a very strong person. Young Richard, for instance, would be completely unlike the young Christopher, who is a loser who can't focus on anything or get anything done.

Being a success often requires hard choices. Doing the right thing is not always the easy thing. A person will make mistakes, and some can be corrected and some you just have to live with. Richard probably stepped in it a few times on his way up, but he is an honorable, successful man of high character. He also has an open, kind of flat-footed approach to things. If Emily can be manipulative, Richard is the blunt one of the two. He is definitely smart enough to be devious, as seen in the story line with Jason and his dad, which I still don't completely understand. I guess he did it for his family and the company. Jason was  a worm, after all.

At this point, Richard is a devoted husband who loves Emily and is protective of Lorelai without smothering her. He learned from her, also. He loves and dotes on Rory and was vicious in protecting her from Dean, whom he saw as a slug. He was at his best when he defended Lorelai to Christopher's parents and even threw them out of the house, then tore into Lorelai in order to make her understand that a lapse in judgment is not the same as lack of character, and that honor is not something you equivocate the way Bill Clinton defined sex.

Richard Gilmore has great strength of character, moral fortitude, a gentle sense of humor, and the self-esteem and self-discipline to meet head on the complexities of Emily and Lorelai and Rory and their familiars. Richard Gilmore is a real man.

 

[Dani257]

See, I've always seen Richard as someone who can be proud of Lorelai and who cares for her in his own way.  But, what stands out for me, is he can be incredibly cruel, hardhearted, unwilling to listen, and extremely manipulative and worse than Emily, in a way.  Yeah, he's a good businessman, and he is a not bad husband (although there is still that whole neglect storyline that I wish they had really dealt with) but a real man in my opinion would never speak to his daughter the way he did in Christopher Returns.  That was still one of his worst hours.  Him telling Lorelai that Emily had been devestated after Lorelai left was fine.  It needed to get out.  Him telling Lorelai that he was defending the Gilmore name, and only the Gilmore name, and then makes sure to drive the point in, is not acceptable.  Him telling Lorelai that she was welcome and that he would always defend his daughter against malicious attacks, and then going on to tell her that there was still years of hurt that didn't get wiped away, that would have been acceptable and manly.  A real man doesn't send barbed attacks to his flesh and blood, like in the pilot, when he told Rory she must have gotten her brains from Christopher, and the unspoken, not Lorelai. 

I used to think Emily was worse, because she was always in your face.  She didn't like something, she wouldn't be tactful, she would tell you to your face in the most blunt way.  But, with the exception of season 5 (where they made Emily into a cartoon character) I've decided that Emily's way allowed real healing between her and Lorelai.  Even though I don't like Emily half the time.  Emily's attacks Lorelai can respond to.  And, because Emily is usually a put it in your face person, (with the exception of the early seasons hiding her need to be needed) she also is more open to hear Lorelai, especially as the seasons went on and she developed.  So, yeah, she and Lorelai probably squabble more than Richard and Lorelai, but they really have an understanding and the making up means something. 

But, Richard.  Richard doesn't want to deal with Lorelai as she is.  It's too uncomfortable.  So, instead of an episode like Rory's Birthday Parties, where Emily won't accept Rory's apology at first, but then comes to the Stars Hollow party and comes to realize that she doesn't really know Lorelai (a significant break through) we have the episode after Christopher Returns, and Richard letting Lorelai sneak out the window.  A cute scene, a nice smile from him, after a Lorelai's "thank you, daddy" but did it touch on the previous episode?  Did it even touch on Lorelai being proud of who she was?  No.

And, manipulative?  He manipulated Rory, the grandaughter who cares about as Rory, not just as his granddaughter, into an interview at Yale.  And, also, the episode where Emily goes and tells Luke to go back to Lorelai (like a command from on high) he totally agreed that they had to handle Lorelai.  He just disagreed with Emily's method, because it blew up in their face.  But, he absolutely agreed that Lorelai couldn't make decisions on her own. 

The biggest problem with Richard and Emily is that they love their daughter, but they don't have a handle on loving Lorelai.  Although, I have to say Emily does better because she actually deals with Lorelai in all her Lorelainess, and more than at FND.

And, not that Richard is a horrible person.  I think he does care about Emily, and Rory, and his daughter (even Lorelai when she's behaving properly) and he's for the most part an honerable businessman, but to me, the essential quality for being a "real" man or woman or anything is the absence of deliberate cruelty.  No one is perfect, and people can be cruel in a fit of anger or even annoyance.  We've seen Lorelai do it at various times.  Her telling Sookie that she hadn't been out on a date in a long time in Paris is Burning.  But, right after, she realized she was way out of line, and apologized (one of the best traits Lorelai has).  Too many times, I've seen Richard (okay twice, but twice is too many) deliberately say something hurtful to Lorelai, and not even have the saving grace to admit he hurt her later or that he was upset.  I never see any hint that he even realizes that he might be wrong.  Not even a silent look in the eyes, even if his actions don't show it.  (And I think Edward Herrmann is a good enough actor to add those subtle touches if that's what he wanted to portray)  And, it may be partly because Lorelai is my favorite character that his actions towards her stand out more.

And, I'm sorry, but I thought his behavior to Dean was reprehensible.  He had no evidence whatsoever (not even circumstancial) that Dean would hurt Rory (and it really turned out to be the other way around).  The way he acted in Sadie, Sadie showed a complete lack of class.  He attacked Dean, not because Dean had hurt Rory, but because Dean was a boy, and because he didn't know what college he wanted to go to and what he wanted to study.  Which isn't a crime in a 17 year old boy.  Emily at least had the decency to remember that Dean was a guest in their home and to treat him with respect (especially since Dean was behaving like a good guest) and Emily was actually there in Rory's Dance. 

So, I can't agree that Richard acts honorably in all the instances you brought up. 

[MikeinLA]

Hey Danielle - Thank you for your well thought-out and expressed post. Like you, I've watched the show from season one. I have never had the impression Richard was cruel or hardhearted. He can be manipulative and domineering, as can anyone with a brane cell or two, but I've never seen him to say or do anything to Lorelai which could not be seen as corrective or for her own good. He is not a saint, and has been known to make the occasional hurtful remark. Everyone over the age of six does this.

Let's turn the coin over and look at the other side.

Lorelai was raised in a fine home by two loving parents. Emily, who is seen to have a will of iron, insisted Lorelai have manners and breeding and an education and what for lack of a better term we might refer to as class. Teenage Lorelai found all this smothering. Poor Lorelai. So, as shown in the flashback ep, she drinks and screws and otherwise behaves reprehensibly and finds herself pregnant. From an adult point of view, she might be thought of as a spoiled, ungrateful, rebellious brat. Sixteen-year-olds do not get to dump their parents' lives and homes and disgrace their families. Sixteen-year-olds are children with little understanding of life and frequently full of what we'll politely refer to as ****.

The story is not that Lorelai was disowned or thrown out of her home when she became preganant. To the contrary, Emily and Richard, and even Christopher, tried to include the pregnancy and child in a normal, supportive, loving lifestyle. Alas - Lorelai found all THIS smothering, too. Again - poor Lorelai. So, she runs away from home. Not having lived a life of privilege, I don't know whether or not it would be "smothering" to have a loving, supportive family who provided me with every opportunity and material thing I wanted.

As seen in all six seasons, Lorelai is shown to be disdainful and ungrateful to her parents, who continue to attempt to be loving and supportive. As seen from their point of view, Lorelai is very hard to love. She is condescending, patronizing, scornful, and openly deriding and ridiculing of her parents, not just to Rory, but to outsiders like Sookie and Luke. She is still a spoiled, ungrateful, rebellious brat.

It would be interesting to shrink Amy S-P's head to see why she would make Lorelai an admirable character and her parents monsters. Lorelai didn't just make a mistake; she enormously and consistently and deliberately screwed up her life.

In the face of all this, Richard and Emily try to keep their family together by bringing Lorelai and Rory to dinner, by paying for Rory's education at both Chilton and Yale, by taking Rory on a vacation to Europe, by advancing Lorelai money to buy the Dragonfly, by buying Rory a car, and, finally, by buying Lorelai and Luke a new home. Alas, Lorelai finds all THIS smothering, too. For the third time - poor Lorelai.

Given the way Lorelai treats her parents, maybe they ARE saints to keep reaching out to her and loving her and looking out for her. The more they try to do for her, the more abusive she becomes toward them.

And THAT'S why Richard Gilmore is a real man.

[Dani257]

Okay, I'm taking it you're playing devil's advocate.  But, I see Richard and Emily as being like mosquito bites.  One mosquito bite compared to a stabbing isn't anything to complain about.  But, when you're getting bitten by a whole swarm of mosquitos, I don't think anyone is going to blame you if you're swatting yourself and running, instead of sitting down thinking, "thank goodness I'm not getting stabbed."  And, even if you're on a tropical island with fresh ocean breezes, I don't think it would be out of line to have a problem with a whole bunch of mosquitos.  So, yeah, Richard and Emily provided her with a lot of material possesions and didn't beat her.  They even did a lot of things for her own good.  I don't think they're monsters.  But, I think Lorelai had some legitimate problems. 

How is implying that Rory got her brains from Christopher trying to do something for Lorelai's own good?  Especially since Christopher wasn't even there, so it couldn't be that he was saying something nice for Christopher's sake.  I just don't see a lot of caring and concern for Lorelai.  I see a lot of trying to mold Lorelai into being the kind of person they want her to be. 

I also don't see Lorelai as being abusive.  And, Lorelai doesn't find them paying for stuff smothering.  She finds the cost of those things smothering.  That they want to tell her how to run her life.  And how to be a parent. She's a grown woman.  Turn the tables.  If Lorelai had gone to Richard's job at some point and told him that he was doing his job wrong, told him in front of his clients, would that be construed as just friendly advice, or would that be trying to undermine his authority?  I can imagine how Richard would see it.  Or, how would Richard feel if Trix had come when Lorelai was a teenager and arbitrarily decided his method of parenting was wrong and overrode his decisions? 

That's the problem with privelege.  People see the privelege and see that as the main thing.  They provided her.  Who cares if they tried to understand her?  Lorelai may joke to people about her family (her sense of humor is similar to Emily's, like Rory said, it's the Gilmore way) but she's not cruel.  And, when she is, (the biggest difference between her and Richard) she acknowledges it.  Lorelai is fine to let Richard and Emily be Richard and Emily except when they interfere in her life.  And, good for her.  She's never told them that they should have her kind of life.  She's tried to smooth out problems between them.  Lorelai doesn't think the Gilmore lifestyle is a good one.  But, she never tried "for their own good" to make them have any other kind of life.  But, Richard and Emily think it's perfectly fine to try and make Lorelai into the kind of person they want her to be, whether or not it's the life she wants. Even if that is for her own good, that's not acceptable to me.  I don't believe manipulative and domineering is just an average normal trait for any halfway intelligent person.  And, of course Richard has some good qualities (he's for the most part a good grandfather, and not because he provided Rory with opportunities), but to me, his flaws are the flaws that take him out of the running for being a real man in my assessment.   Being unwilling to accept a person for who they are, especially when it doesn't hurt you, doesn't interfere with your life, and makes the other person happy, even if you can't understand why, is not the quality of a good man.  And, I know it's pretty late considering Luke's behavior in the last episode, and with the whole April debacle, but to me, that's a much bigger problem than whether or not someone dresses well and whether they run a franchise rather than a diner.



But, I don't think you do think Lorelai was some evil bad seed and Richard and Emily are poor put upon saints.  First, you seem to respect Lorelai and like her from other posts, and I'm not sure how you could if you saw her like that.  And, you have posted on how you think the show is good.  And, a good show wouldn't make the main character totally bad and unsympathetic (unless they were the villian and even the villian would have to be somewhat sympathetic as the main character), which is what Lorelai would be if she was what you described.  And, it would make these characters totally one dimensional.  Which is why I'm thinking that was just playing devil's advocate, but also why I can't see that argument as an example of why Richard is a real man.

I think we just have different priorities.  For you, and I'm just assessing from what I read from your posts, being the good provider, the successful businessman, the guy who wants to do things for someone's own good.  For me, what matters is kindness, and understanding as the most important quality.  You might be able to convince me that Richard thinks his overbearing ways are kind (in the "Lorelai doesn't know what's good for her" way) but I'm afraid I'll never see understanding from him with his actions.  Take two examples from Christopher Returns and Raincoats and Recipes.  Richard tears into Lorelai, but never acknowledges that maybe she might have been hurting at 16.  Lorelai heard him that they had been hurt.  btw, where did he get the idea that Lorelai did feel that everything had been swept away by him kicking Christopher's parents out?  I saw Lorelai coming to him out of gratitude, but I never saw her imply that suddenly everything that happened didn't matter.  He just somehow came to that conclusion.  But, she still listened, acknowledged that he and Emily had been hurt and just asked for her side to be heard.  At which point, he became tired and had enough drama.  Eh, but back to the comparision.  Lorelai lectures Rory on sleeping with a married man.  She tells her how wrong it is to blame Lindsay for what was Dean's and Rory's actions.  She's being moral and doing it for Rory's own good.  But, aside from that, what was upfront in Lorelai's mind (and in her words?)  She didn't want Rory to be hurt.  Rory's Dance, Lorelai wanted Rory to experience it, but she also said that she loved Rory for being who Rory was.  For being the non joiner not popular and happy with that person.  I don't get the impression that Richard felt that being Miss Cotilian and model society girl was an experince that he thought Lorelai should have, but in the end he loved Lorelai for who she was. 

We just have a fundamental difference in what's important, and what makes a real man.  The very fact that Lorelai's way of life is something that Richard sees as something that needs to be corrected (and that he feels he has the right to come in and correct) is something that I find extremely annoying.

[MikeinLA]

Hey Danielle - Thanks again, and you make a couple of good points.

I am being a devil's advocate in suggesting there is another side to the story and we need to look at Lorelai and her behavior and her life from her parents' point of view. Lorelai is not some evil seed, and there is no indication Richard and Emily think of her as one. They very obviously love and want to protect her. Especially recently, both may be seen to be proud of her. I seem to recall Richard correcting someone way back in one of the early seasons who asked if she worked at the inn. "She RUNS it," he replied, or something like that.

Just often enough to remind us, we've seen both Richard and Emily fly to her defense, not because she's helpless or blundering, but because they love her and are proud of her. I don't know the eps by titles, but recall Emily calling Lorelai in a panic because she didn't know what to wear on her date. She wanted Lorelai to help her pick out her wedding dress, too. I have these visuals of Richard being very proud of both Lorelai and Rory to others.

The shot about Rory getting her branes from Christopher was just that - a zinger. Everyone in Stars Hollow, and most of the ones we've met from Hartford, are given to zingers. It was a little cold for a mere zinger, but I don't think it was a hateful remark. Richard's savaging of Dean at the dinner table was over the top, but in his defense, he was right. Dean was a dud and no fit match for Rory. Richard was right about Yale, too, we must also note. Rory decided to go there on her own after seeing both schools.

A thing you can't do is turn the tables. Emily and Richard are Lorelai's parents, and even if they are heavy-handed now and then, they get to make input in how she does things. A good parent knows when a kid is growing up and needs less supervision or "helpful suggestions", and many times when we have long become adults, our parents still make us crazy now and then.

But - Lorelai would have no right and no place to come to Richard's business, in your example, and comment on it or critique it. He did, however, in the ep in which he was just starting his own business, consult with and rely upon Lorelai, and that was a funny and sweet sequence. Once again: A real man knows when to ask for help and be gracious about it.

You're right in that I don't think Richard and Emily are saints. They can both be a real pain in the ass, and this is also something you can expect from bright, accomplished, perceptive people. I wouldn't be surprised if Trix did come and meddle in their parenting methods. That woman was beyond strong; she was an unfeeling harridan. There's another point in Richard's favor: A real man knows the time may come when he has to stand up to his own mother and pursue the woman he loves. Standing up to Trix took a set of balls THIS big, and you'll have to give him the points on that one.

Much of the charm of the show comes from the way Lorelai has grown from a spoiled, pregnant teenager to a bright, feisty, self-sufficient woman. She has a very strong moral center, and I was delighted at the way she tore into Rory for shagging Dean. Young kids think they are in love and can justify such an action, but Lorelai was wonderfully unequivocal. Rory was looking for Bill Clinton's definition of "marriage" and Lorelai wasn't having any of it.

There are gags and bromides about kids as they grow older realizing how often their parents were right about things. The child psychologists insist our characters are formed in our earliest years. Lorelai could not be the product of cruel parents.

This is a great discussion! The genius of the show is that these characters are so complex and realistically drawn, we can discuss them as if they are real people.

 

[Dani257]

Richard and Emily had a right to have input on how Lorelai did things when she was 16 and living in their house.  They do not have that right when Lorelai is almost 40.  There's a point when parents have to realize that their child is no longer a child but an adult.  And, they have to respect that.  Talking to your child like she's 16 is not the lifelong privelege of a parent. They get to voice an opinion but then, if Lorelai disagrees, they should back off.  And, they should treat her with the respect they treat any adult.  You never go into a person's place of business and lecture them like a naughty child.  Even if, especially if, you are their parent.  But, even if Richard has the right as a parent that Lorelai doesn't as a child (still disagree) I think Richard would object greatly if it had been Trix who had come to his place of business and tried to pull that kind of thing on him.

And, I don't know that Richard was "right" about Yale.  Was he right that Yale was a good school and just as good as Harvard?  Yes.  (I'm assuming, having never been to either)  But, does the fact that Rory chose Yale mean he was right in deciding for himself that Yale was the right school without even considering that Rory might prefer Harvard?  Did the ends justify the means of him manipulating the whole Yale interview?  Yes, Lorelai had a dream of Rory going to Harvard, but she also had the self awareness to realize it was her dream and to question whether or not Rory was just doing it to please her.  If Rory was torn between Harvard and Yale and her list leaned more towards Harvard, would Richard have given her the push to be able to say, "I wanted you to go to Yale, but I see you want to go to Harvard, and since this is your choice I'm not going to keep pushing my dreams on you, but let you know that I'm okay that you chose a different college"?  I don't know, but I doubt it.

I also don't think Richard was right about Dean.  I think Dean was perfectly fine as a first boyfriend for a 17 year old.  It's not like they were going off to get married.  And, Richard couldn't have predicted anything that would happen in later seasons (where I still say AS-P sacrificed Dean on the altar of Rory goddess/mankiller) just because at 17 years old he didn't know what college he wanted to go to and what he wanted to major in.  And, even if he did have some super future telling powers, him being "right" did not justify his behavior towards Dean when he was a guest in his home. 

But, interestingly, Richard has no problem with Logan (even after finding out he and Rory were having sex, and that was just about the idea of anyone deflowering -he thought- his precious granddaughter) even though at 22 Logan had no plans, which is a lot more troubling than a 17 year old.  And, I like Logan (liked Dean, too), but I think the only reason Logan's lack of direction didn't bother Richard, or why his grilling of Logan was only what plans they had was because Logan had "breeding" and was part of society.  Richard has no idea what's going on with Luke and Lorelai.  So, his objections had nothing to do with Luke keeping Lorelai in the dark about April for 2 months or not letting her be a part of that aspect of his life afterwards.  Two things I could agree with if he had raised those objections.  No, his objection is Luke is a filthy diner owner who won't fit in if they invite him to the country club.  Not a good reason to agree with Emily's dirty work.  I don't see that the ends justify the means.

I also disagree that the comment about Christopher was a simple zinger.  I really don't think Richard is the zinger type.  Lorelai and Emily are.  Rory is kind of, but not as much as either Lorelai or Emily (because in a lot of ways, Rory is more like Richard) But, I would say a close zinger would be how they mocked Lorelai on her birthday.  Richard asking if she wanted to blow out the tapers.  Not a good example, but I don't think Richard and Lorelai really have a zinger relationship.  I could think of better Emily examples.  To me, a zinger isn't designed to hurt.  It's designed to mock, maybe cause a little bit of irritation, embarrasment, but mostly it's just meant to be witty.  That remark about Christopher was designed to hurt.  Or, once again, it was a subtle punishment to Lorelai by praising Christopher to the skies.

And, Richard didn't ask for help, Lorelai volunteered.  But, I admit I'm just being nitpicky.  For the majority of the episode he wasn't a cold, my way or the highway, you don't exist if you're not doing things the way I want kind of guy.  It was, for the most part, a good bonding moment between them.  So, I'll refrain (at least in this post) from ranting about that moment when it wasn't good.

I don't agree that Lorelai couldn't have been the product of cruel parents.  Kids do sometimes overcome their environments.  Not that I think Richard and Emily are fundamentally cruel. I just disagree with the idea in general.  I think Emily often says a lot of cruel things, is overly critical, and in the beginning was extremely unbending and petty.  And, I think Richard is also domineering, has a tendency to shut people out when they don't do what he wants, very rarely admits that he's wrong or even that he's right but might have been more sensitive in how he presents himself, overbearing, and like Emily (and like most people of a certain financial bracket and age in AS-P's world) unbending in how "things are supposed to be."  And, of course they have their good points, and have their good points in the relationship between them and Lorelai.  Just like every character has their good points and bad. But, I think it's a matter of what flaws a viewer feels are worse than others.  To me, what I see as Richard's flaws make him much more unsympathetic than a great deal of the people -a great deal of the men- except with how Luke has been behaving lately. 

I think Richard is moral.  Uintil Jason, I would have said a totally honorable businessman, and I don't think Jason being a "worm (disputed) justified his actions.  But, anyway, I think Richard can be nice and at times kind.  But, I think he lacks an essential quality of understanding, and his judgement is rarely tempered with mercy.

[emily14N]

What i love about Kelly Bishop, is that you really do begin to hate her (maybe thats to strong, but you begin to be anoyed by her) which is exactly how she is supposed to be portrayed in my point of view.
Edward Herrmann, is just such a talented actor. I can't really put it any better than that.

(my post seems so short compared to everyone elses on this thread! But you have all seemed to sum up exactly what i wanna say! so im in total agreal with you all)

[Dani257]

Don't worry.  Some of us are just longwinded blowhards

[MikeinLA]

The ABC Family Channel just reran the ep in which Stobe and Francine Hayden visit the Gilmores, Stobe goes off on Lorelai, and Richard leaps to her defense. He specifically defends her:

How dare you come into my house and insult my dotter?

Lorelai is very successful in what she does!

Then, I watched the scene in his office, when Lorelai comes in to thank him for defending her. In light of Danielle's posts, I watched the scene very carefully with an eye to whether or not Richard was cruel to Lorelai.

I believe he was not. It was a powerful scene in which he reminds Lorelai that she hurt Emily and him very much.

Your mother couldn't get out of bed for a month! Did you know that?

It was well of him to remind her of the impact of her actions on others. He did not condemn or berate her, but drove home to her that the situation was not all about HER. As furious as he was, I thought he was restrained. He was more of a man than I would have been, as I'd have clocked Stobe after about his second sentence.

Emily then gave Rory a wonderful, loving, supportive pep talk out in the kitchen.

I like Richard and Emily.

[Dani257]

We'll have to agree to disagree on Richard.  I think he was cruel, and I found it very odd that he felt that time, when Lorelai did nothing but thank him, was the time to tell her that everything wasn't okay.  Where did he get the idea that Lorelai thought that nothing mattered because he defended her?  How did "thank you, Dad" get interpreted as "hey, it's all okay, nothing that mattered 16 years ago makes any difference now"? 

Plus, when I watched the episode (just today, so it's more fresh in my mind than it had been) he said that he had to tell his friends that Lorelai was leaving school because she was pregnant.  Lorelai said that it must have been devestating.  For him.  She said that "we've" all been through hell.  She was not trying to make it all about herself.  And, that whole night she never tried to make it all about herself.  She stood through his lecture, acknowledged his points and his hurt, and when she did try to let her feelings be known (because it was a two way street), he shut down.  No, what she wanted did not matter at all, because it wasn't following the procedure.  Suddenly, he had dealt with two many emotions.  He left it with nothing resolved. Lorelai was willing to continue, to work things out, and she had to know if they kept going, he was going to keep telling her how she had disappointed them.  And, she was willing to go through that, and also to put her input, until hopefully they could reach an understanding or at least move forward.  But, Richard wasn't willing to.  Not when Lorelai might have spoken up, and had a voice. 

If Richard had quit with defending Lorelai, I would have said he was fine.  If he would have had a discussion with Lorelai afterwards (including hurt feelings, yelling, and whatever happens when a whole bunch of difficult issues that have built up over 16 years) I would have said that he was making progress and helped move the relationship forward.  Discussion meaning listening as well as talking.  Realizing there were hurt feelings on both sides, letting your feelings be known, but be willing to listen to the others.  Not saying "I'm tired" especially when you're the one who decided that everything needed to be aired out.  If he had done that, I wouldn't have been as upset with him. I might have had more sympathy for him. (To me, Richard is king of making it all about him) Although, I would still wonder why he felt that Lorelai needed that speech right then, and what she did in her thank you to make him think that she was going to take away that everything had been forgotten.

And, no arguments about Emily in that episode.  That was actually the first episode I liked Emily, and she was great with Rory.  Her speech to Rory telling her that neither her person or her existance was ever a disappointment was very good.  And, that existance thing was a very important distinction.  So, no problems with Emily in that episode. At least none that I can recall.  Lots of problems with Richard.

[MikeinLA]

I'll agree we'll have to agree to disagree about Richard. I know that sentence makes sense because I read it over four times.

That scene served an important purpose in the drama. I think it was the first time the impact of Lorelai's actions on Richard and Emily is even mentioned, and whether we think Richard is too hard on Lorelai or not, the viewers need to see Richard and Emily's point of view. It was important to show right there in season ONE that Richard would defend Lorelai against an attack from someone like Stobe. In a sense, Stobe was beating up Richard and Emily, too, which is why Richard ganged up on him.

We're leaving!

You're not leaving! I'm kicking you out!

Richard and Emily have to be shown to have a cold, hard side, or Lorelai's rebellious behavior and leaving home make no sense.

I like to stay in with the characters, but I must say that ep was a tour-de-force for Edward Herrmann.

 

[JusTcaLLmeRedhEad]

Edward && Kelly are both amazing actors. They bring sOo much to their characters. The show just wouldnt work with out their charctors or their charactors relationship with each other and other charactors. ((i just used the word charactor ALOT- sorry)).

Just wondering..why does it always say SPECIAL APPEARENCE BY EDWARD HERRMANN?? is it just because he's famous??