Headliners/Sophies (Logan and Rory) - In omnia paratus

[bingbong]

I don't assume that if Rory said yes to Logan's proposal she would have gotten a job on a newspaper in the San Francisco area. Logan brought up the idea but he did not say that he had a connection for her. I am guessing she would have gotten the same job with the web site that took her on the road for Obama's campaign. That would have meant lots of road time for her, with a home base in CA at Logan's swingin' pad. Logan would probably be traveling also in his work, so it would be a struggle for them to share quality time together. Even aside from time apart, their relationship would have challenges because they are both young and still discovering who they are. And i'm not convinced Logan would be faithful to Rory long-term.

[SIDNEY]

I don't assume that if Rory said yes to Logan's proposal she would have gotten a job on a newspaper in the San Francisco area. Logan brought up the idea but he did not say that he had a connection for her. I am guessing she would have gotten the same job with the web site that took her on the road for Obama's campaign. That would have meant lots of road time for her, with a home base in CA at Logan's swingin' pad. Logan would probably be traveling also in his work, so it would be a struggle for them to share quality time together. Even aside from time apart, their relationship would have challenges because they are both young and still discovering who they are. And i'm not convinced Logan would be faithful to Rory long-term.

I don't agree that Logan wouldn't be faithful to Rory long-term. She was his first real girlfriend and he did pretty good for the most part. He was so serious about her that he proposed. He wasn't afraid of commitment because he did find the perfect one for him. I am convinced they would have made a great couple. They went through so much and survived.

As for the ravelling issue, If Logan travelled because of his job, he would do so some of the time maybe for a month or two. But Rory said with her job, she wouldn't be coming home for two years so i don't see how that can work. So as Logan said, she really had to choose something.

[Dani257]

And i'm not convinced Logan would be faithful to Rory long-term.

Long (understatement) time, no post.  Been more interested in another show.  But, I came and saw this, and want to know why you feel that way?  To me, Logan's history both with and before Rory make me sure he would stay faithful to her long term.

[bingbong]

^ Woah, look who has made an appearance!

I know this is an Appreciation thread, but...

I view Logan's past, both before knowing Rory and during the early stages, as a bad omen for their future. I give him credit for developing into a great boyfriend. He has a couple of years worth of loyalty behind him and that's a good start. But i have doubts when the discussion turns to the lifetime commitment of a marriage. I think old habits die hard and Logan is too young to be considered a fully-formed person if we stretch it out for the long haul. Five-ten years down the road, their marriage in a bumpy patch or worse, i can imagine Logan falling back into bad habits such as promiscuous behavior (possibly accompanied by alcohol). With all those years of playboy activity compared to his time with Rory, i think the playboy in him would show itself at some point. I think they should both wait a long time before considering marriage to anyone.

As for the ravelling issue, If Logan travelled because of his job, he would do so some of the time maybe for a month or two. But Rory said with her job, she wouldn't be coming home for two years so i don't see how that can work. So as Logan said, she really had to choose something.

If they were going to have any chance of making it work, Logan would have to show flexibility about Rory's career. Relying strictly on the few newspapers in the Bay area for employment would greatly limit Rory's career options. But if we go by what you're saying, i take it as a further example of why she did right in turning him down. She has waited for this moment all her life and i'd hate to see her sacrifice her dream in journalism at the moment it's about to begin.

[Dani257]

Welll, now I'll expand (evil grin) my thoughts on why I don't see Logan being unfaithful.  Prior to Rory, Logan was never portrayed as a cheater.  He was promiscuous, but it was never that he was in relationships or had the women believe that he was in relationships with them.  He may have been with more than one woman at a time, but none of them had any expectations (or had any right to, considering the casualness of the situations) that they were exclusive.  They said upfront who Logan was - and none of it involved cheating.

Okay, after he got with Rory, the bridesmaids were the only time Logan ever slept with or had any non platonic interaction with any other women besides Rory.  As far as the bridesmaids, well, I do think that the Rory/Logan relationship was extremely well written (with the obvious final break up exception).  And, I say that because I believe Logan did consider himself broken up from Rory at the time.  He said it, and it would have been bad writing, to me, if the intent was for that not to be true.  Ugh.  I mean, it would have been bad writing if he had been lying, since at no point did his story change and at no point did the show contradict that he honestly felt that way.  People can and have disagreed, but that's not the point of this.  Logan should have, and likely did know that Rory would be hurt if she found out, which is partly why he hid it (as well as the whole not wanting to get "caught" -a perfectly human, if not totally noble desire).  But, he didn't knowingly, or consciously betray their relationship, because in his mind there was no more relationship to betray.  And, post bridesmaids was actually a very bumpy patch.  He was coming home every night to a sullen woman who hadn't forgiven him for the bridesmaids (and others have disagreed, but I say being in the apartment wasn't the same as forgiving him) and, although it was never stated either way on the show, I believe certainly wasn't sleeping with him.  And, since the idea that he found affection somewhere else didn't come up on the show, it didn't happen.

And, Logan had two prime opportunities to cheat post bridesmaids.  London was one (a big, almost year long opportunity).  But, actually, I don't think it was that amazing that he didn't cheat on her in London.  He went there to make good for her and to be grown up, and doing that wouldn't have fit.  I'd say if anytime was a real prime temptation, it would have been in Vegas after his website deal fell through.  He was at a low point, he was running, likely he wasn't just drinking cokes there with Colin and Finn.  And, he didn't cheat. 

To me, being unfaithful would consist of Logan being perfectly aware that he was still in a relationship with Rory -and it's pretty easy to know when a marriage is broken up.  Not until the divorce- and sleep with someone else.  (I also think the experience with the bridesmaids would mean that Logan would be quite aware that both he and Rory would have to come to an agreement that things were over.  There wouldn't be any repeated "I thought/decided we were broken up without finding out from/informing you" in this case) As far as I can see, there's nothing like that in his history, promiscuity or no.

Of course, I'd like to think that if they got married, they'd work out all the difficulties of jobs and all that and be together as long as Richard and Emily.  But, if that didn't happen, I don't see adultery as the thing that would do it in. 

[bingbong]

Well, thank you kindly for expanding your thoughts with evil grin!

I don't know if adultery would be the cause of their problems, but it could be a by-product of them. It's a good point that Logan doesn't have a history of cheating. But how could he, when he was never in a genuine relationship before Rory? He never had the opportunity  to cheat, so to speak. On the other hand, he never had the inclination to commit before Rory graced her regal presence upon his blessed life, and he did well with it. I give the guy his due. I've always had doubts about the way the bridesmaids thing played out. It smelled too much of Ross & Rachel in "Friends" and Rory was a tad too quick in letting it slide. But even if they were technically on a break, what does it say that he was so quick in jumping in bed with other people? Not that it automatically speaks about Logan in a married future, but it's a sign of his inclination to fall back into old habits; i mean, there are different ways to deal with a break-up and he chose that one.

Maybe i'm too cynical for my own good, but i have doubts believing a guy with a playboy background gets into his first bonafide relationship and it's going to last for the rest of his life. Rather than immediate marriage, i feel more comfy with the scenario of them splitting up and pursuing their careers and possibly other relationships. If in time they find their way back to each other, go for it. Which, come to think of it, is how it could work out for them, if they ever recover from Logan's take-it-or-leave-it ultimatum marriage proposal. 

[Dani257]

Well, I'm not normally for the whole breaking up, getting into other relationships and finding each other again thing.  Too star crossed, "meant to be" thing that turned me off L/L (not that I was ever turned on).  But, if the other relationships were definitely finished for a good time before- no being with someone and then realizing that the other person was wrong because they ran into each other again, and if none of those other relationships were too serious, I could go with that.  I'd hate to think of Rory or Logan leaving a trail of broken hearts just to find each other again.  Not my idea of romantic.  And, if they slowly built the relationship back up - starting as friends and getting closer.  No magical immediate reunion.  That would work.

As far as not having the opportunity to cheat, I'd say it had to do with more than circumstance.  The thing is, I think Logan could have been in a relationship with some - maybe most- of the girls and women he dated casually.  Strictly from a shallow pov (and I get the feeling that he dated a lot of shallow women), Logan was a pretty good catch.  Fun, exciting, super rich.  That's not even adding the more substantial qualities.  If nothing else, I think at least some would have jumped to be considered Logan's girlfriend just for the status alone (I tamed Logan Huntzburger!).    If I remember correctly, they never said he gave any woman any false ideas or made false promises to her.  He could have pretended to be in a relationship and still seen other women behind his girlfriend's back.  If that were the case, there probably would have been a scene where Rory encounters the betrayed woman and she warned her about who Logan really was.  I know I'm setting my argument up for a fall, but what the heck.  Adultery just seems too deceitful for him.

[bingbong]

Ha, that last paragraph essentially adds up to, "Logan did whatever he wanted to do" and much of it wasn't pretty. He and those gals who wanted to "tame" him for their status deserved each other. But i don't hold his pre-Rory past against him. He was a college frat-boy party animal like others before him. I confess my hunch about him commiting adultery is wearing down, but not my feelings about them as a young married couple, which was more to my original point. 

I reckon Logan was considered a good catch before, during and after his frat-boy years, by all kinds of people. Emily & Richard were probably not the only members of the Hartford elite who wanted a Huntzberger to mate with their daughter or grandaughter or niece or any other female relation with a pulse. But Logan at the end of the series was only at the bare beginning of the "grown-up" phase in his life. The marriage proposal had too much of the rush of the moment about it. I felt like he was looking for Rory to fit into his plans for his life. It wasn't a true joint effort between them, more of her fitting into a slot he selected for her. That's just one more of the problems i saw for them, even if i forget about the possibility of infidelity.

I'm not a fan of the on again-off again thing either, but i prefer it to a marriage where i see them as too young and too unsettled to make it work until death do them part. It's a long-shot that they would hook up at a later date, but i see their living happily ever after as a long-shot in any scenario. They could end up as a new version of Lorelai & Christopher, never getting the timing right. I don't see it as comparable to Lorelai and Luke because those two didn't have timing issues when they finally got together, they had idiot  issues. The timing issue was a big factor in Rory & Logan's break-up and even though the break-up was poorly written, i buy into the fact that Rory did not want to take that step at that particular point of her life.

[Dani257]

Guess I didn't make my case that within the promiscuity there was a decency about Logan's dealings. Oh, well.

Okay, detour.  I actually agree about them being too young.  I never wanted them to get married at that time, and I think DP knew that the issue of marriage at that point would lead to a break up.  What I think would have been better would be if Rory had the job offer in the first place.  With a concrete offer, I don't think Logan would have proposed.  I think he would have said, "you do this, and I'll wait."  I don't know how it all works, but I assume the two year thing isn't something that would happen all the time.  I mean, she might still have needed to travel, but not go off for years at a time on a regular basis.  And, then, they could have settled down in a home base and gotten married.  I just haven't decided whether I think they would have agreed to break up for those two years in the belief that tying themselves down to long distance relationship for that long wouldn't be fair and that they'd see what happened when she got back, or if it would have been a longer example of what they did when Logan was in London.  I'd prefer they just kept up a long distance relationship, since the show would have ended before she got back.

That would have satisfied me, because they would still be looking forward to being together.  It should have satisfied people who equated being with Logan (or any man) with being dependent, because Rory would have had two full years of being independent.  Even if she and Logan still considered themselves a couple, I'd say that's pretty independent being states away from friends, family, and your boyfriend.

[bingbong]

My idea of Logan's sense of decency applying to his pre-Rory women amounts to, for example, giving them cab money to get home after a night of drinking and sexual activity. I look at it within the framework of a less than virtuous lifestyle. Essentially harmless, but not exactly something to boast about. Looking at his decency more generally, he had his careless moments but he was not one to deliberately hurt people, and his bad-boy aspects were mostly the stuff of prankish party animal.

If Rory had landed the job before his marriage proposal, it's safe to say Logan would have been flexible in his reaction. He's the guy who pushed for her to go for the NY Times internship and, as i recall, he urged her to prioritize the internship over him. But no matter how it's sliced, so long as she stayed with her career choice and he was set on moving to CA, they were going to have problems spending quality time together for the long run. It's possible that Logan's original suggestion when he proposed, a job for Rory covering the local beat in the Bay area, would be their future solution. After she got the experience of the two-year job out of her system, she might have decided she's ready for him in Frisco. Logan might have used his connections to help her find a local reporting job (no easy task; the jobs must be limited and the competition fierce).

Of course, that scenario assumes their relationship survives the two years. Also, if she does a good job covering the Obama campaign (and she will, because she's Rory), new opportunities could open up. She could receive an offer to cover the political scene in D.C. or something else that makes her career juices percolate and she might want him to relocate for the sake of her career. I suppose journalists find a way to make it work, and at least once she talked about Christine Amanpour being married with a family. But it's got to be tough and, again, more so because of their relative youth. Hey, love is never easy for a Gilmore Girl.

[laurla205]

Holy heck, I go away for a couple weeks and I miss a Dani return?  @#$%^


I’m starting to think that Logan needed some independent time before getting married.  He had just cut ties from Mitchum and was moving to the opposite coast with a great new job opportunity in essence starting a brand new life.  It could have been, in part, neediness that caused his proposal in the first place.  Out of all of these things Rory was the only one that gave the opportunity for a constant in this new life.  Despite his risk-taker personality he always had the Mitchum safety net and that will assumedly no longer be available.  Say she had said yes and gone with him, he’s have depended on her.  She wouldn’t have been bailing him out of any failed business ventures but she would have been the only emotional support (outside Honor who would be miles and miles away) he had and he needed to believe in himself for the sake of believing in himself rather than continue doing so because Rory did. 

I do still agree that a long distance relationship sans proposal is preferred to all other scenarios but I think it’s good for Logan, considering the way it was written, that he will be on his own.

[bingbong]

I agree with the neediness factor for Logan. He genuinely loved her, but he was looking at the pieces he wanted in his new life and Rory fit right in with his needs.

I think they would have leaned on each other for emotional support. It would have been completely new turf for her, she would not have known anyone, and she would have had her own career uncertainties, especially if she attempted to get a local job with a Frisco paper. So, yeah, there would have been a whole lot of leanin' goin' on.

[Sooks]

Hey everyone!
I know that there are bunch of different things going on at the ORG right now, but I wanted to remind people of the upcoming ORG REUNION!
Please feel free to 'wear' this sig as a reminder to those visiting.
Don't forget to be here sometime during August 22nd - 24th, 2008 - more details coming from Heidi soon!!
Come celebrate with ORG members past and present - all that is Gilmore Girls!