Off topic: Political thread

[skftex]

I agree...it wasn't President Bush's fault, he can't stop a hurricane. 

Okay before I say what I came here to say. I just wanted to add that the way Bush acted was the second reason why I was shocked. Cause when out country was floated our old queen actually helped the people, sure she was wet and looked like hell, but she did her job as a queen: she represented the nation, she cared for her people and didn’t give a shit if she got wet doing it. Cause ‘the same day’ she was out there helping people. Kinda like I saw Oprah do. She gave hope to those who needed it. She DID NOT fly over to see how wet they were and wait till it was safe to talk to the people….well if a camera was present that is. Okay I’m getting of track here.
 

He also did what ANY other President would have been ALLOWED to do.  The cameras are ALWAYS there when a President does something so it's not like he was waiting for the cameras...the press flies with him every where he goes.  Plus there is the whole security issues, the secret service would have never allowed him to go in there right away, nor would the same secret service allowed any other President in there that early.  Yes it was sad.  Yes help didn't get there as it should have but that was  mostly because of FEMA.  A government agency yes, but not run personally President Bush, their response would have been the same even if Kerry had been elected.  He did give aid, right away, in form of declaring it a National disaster area which is the go ahead for FEMA.  By the way, my sister was hit by Katrina and you can't IMAGINE the amount of help she received, and pretty much right away and is still receiving.  She was in one of the worse places hit in Mississippi but luckily didn't lose her home (had major damage but it is repairable). 

The added problem in some areas of New Orleans was that when the help tried to get in, they were being shot at.  Even if the relief were not there right away I cannot ever justify shooting at someone trying to help you.  Plus the looting.  If they were stealling food, ok, I would get that, but in the middle of a flood do you really need to steal a TV set?  That was just a few areas I know, but no one seems to be blaming the people that behaved like that.  If you were a relief working trying to come in, after being shot at, how hard would you have tried to return to that area?  That doesn't excuse the areas where law enforcement were literally driving by people that needed help and were dying.  There were several things that proved we are not ready for this sort of disaster.  Hopefully they've learned from it and, god forbid there be a next time, they'll be better prepared.

Sharon

[Phoenix]

Let's see, my opinons on these topics will mostly just be a repeat of what's already been said, but here goes:

Government: I voted that my government sucks because we're having a Christmas election, our current prime minister is boring and the premier and prime minister look like their going to allow health care to be privitized.

Birth Control: Whether you believe in it or not, who says you have the right to decide what other people do with their lives and their body.  If a pharmacist doesn't want to hand out b/c perscriptions, then s/he should have taken that into consideration before becoming a pharmacist.  You don't believe in birth control? Don't use it for yourself.  Don't stop others for so you can pretend you ha ve a conscious.

Abortion: I'm pro-choice.  Abortion should be available to anyone who wants it.  Don't believe in abortion? Don't have one.  But for the women who are raped or don't want a child, they should have the option of abortion if they want it.  I do have a problem with abortion as a means of birth control however.

Viagara: If it is covered by health care, so should birth control be.

[Brittani]

Before I give my thoughts Let me tell you about what I do and where Ive been.  I am a US Navy Seabee I went to school and spent 6 years stationed in Gulfport MS.  Recovery and construction are my buisness, thats what seabees do.  I am currently stationed in Virginia and have been here a little over a year.  After Hurricane Katrina hit we set up a comunication center here for millitary and dod civilians to call in to check in that they were all right.  Within a matter of days we mounted up and flew to Gulfport support the relief.  I got sent to Stennis the NASA center on the border of Mississippi and Louisiana. 

While I dont always agree with what President Bush says I dont in this instance believe he was anyway at fault.  For years New Orleans was recieving money to fix the leveys, but they wernt spending the funding the way they were supposed to.  So befor Hurricane Katrina hit President Bush stoped their funding.  Anyone familer with the French Quarter knows that the areas most greatly affected by the Hurricane were the section 8 housing.  They could have fixed the leveys 20 yrs ago but they were waiting for this to happen so they could get rid of what they consider the eyesore of their comunity.  Now they can build that area up and fatten their purses off of it.  (I dont believe that they wanted it to be as bad as it was just bad enough to get what they wanted) Atleast its gonna be years befor they get it.

I was there for five weeks helping clean up the mess very sad. 

Abortion- I am pro-choice.  Childeren who are raped should have a choice since they didnt have one in  the getting pregnant.  I am adopted my parents do foster care.  Ive seen girls come in to care who have been raped by a father, brother, uncle, Friend of the family or stranger.  So sad, they deserve the chioce.

BC- Free BC for all!!  If they are gonna provide men with viagara they should provide women with BC. 

These are my opinions such as they are.

[Stephanie]

Amen sister friend! You know your sh*t, and you do and have done great work so I applaud you and I also prettisticked you (also, no newbie deserves to be on -1, what was with that). Ok cool back to it...

Pro-choice, if we don't have proper abortion clinics, backyard abortions will come of age again - and I'll be damned if that is going to happen! Their are some sick people out there, girls deserve the choice to have some control over their lives.

BC - I agree, free for all!

Government: I voted that my government sucks because we're having a Christmas election, our current prime minister is boring and the premier and prime minister look like their going to allow health care to be privitized.

That doesn't sound good - privitised health care - thank God we have medicare!

[Jaredloverforever]

I have a question for everyone about abortion. In the abortion bill, doesn't it provide for rape and incest? I'm pretty sure it does, and if it does, which to a certain degree I agree with. I'm 100% pro-life, but I do understand about why it should be in there for rape and incest, but if it is in there, then does that change everyone's opinion? Just curious.

[Phoenix]

Government: I voted that my government sucks because we're having a Christmas election, our current prime minister is boring and the premier and prime minister look like their going to allow health care to be privitized.

That doesn't sound good - privitised health care - thank God we have medicare!

We've got public health care, and it's pretty good (i live in canada), but I don't like the idea of it being privitised.  However, I need to do more research into it to make a fully informed decision.

[Jaredloverforever]

Government: I voted that my government sucks because we're having a Christmas election, our current prime minister is boring and the premier and prime minister look like their going to allow health care to be privitized.

That doesn't sound good - privitised health care - thank God we have medicare!

We've got public health care, and it's pretty good (i live in canada), but I don't like the idea of it being privitised.  However, I need to do more research into it to make a fully informed decision.

Seeing as though you live in Canada maybe you can answer this. I've heard that there are quotas and long waiting lists for any type of surgery in Canada and once quotas are met for certain procedures, it's pretty much, just too bad for anyone else. Is it really like that in Canada?

[Aims]

Ok well i think the US government is HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE! There needs to be some serious change there.

I have a reasonably great government down here in New Zealand, we just had our elections and again we have a centre left party running our country (wicked!)
We have a public health system that covers everyone, we are deeply concentrated on convservation and remaning a nuclear free country.

Btw Bush is a retard, there's no stopping that - i guess it's not his fault he's a muppet with lots of different hands up his ass.

[Jaredloverforever]

Ok well i think the US government is HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE! There needs to be some serious change there.

I have a reasonably great government down here in New Zealand, we just had our elections and again we have a centre left party running our country (wicked!)
We have a public health system that covers everyone, we are deeply concentrated on convservation and remaning a nuclear free country.

Btw Bush is a retard, there's no stopping that - i guess it's not his fault he's a muppet with lots of different hands up his ass.

Umm, not to be mean, but I thought we were all suppossed to be respectful. I try very hard to keep my feeling about Kerry and the democrats to myself, especially if they are unmerited and disrespectful. I'm not just saying this because I'm a Republican who whole-heartedly supports President Bush and in your statement you are technically implying that I"m stupid to, since I voted for him. And for the record, here, we don't use that "r" word. It's very offensive to anyone, no matter in which context it is used.

I would be open to your opinions on President Bush if you were willing to go about it in an informed and unbashing way. Just for the record, what is your problem with President Bush?

[Aims]

My most major problem with Bush would be the whole Iraq thing. What your countries government has done to countries surrounding it e.g. Nicaragua is just stupid!

Why are you a republican? I know you have to choose between the lesser of two evils.....

Infact i think the whole american system of getting in is rediculous too - we used to have something similar - before they realised it just wasn't fair ....1 vote = 1 vote.... you shouldnt need to win areas, you should take on board something like MMP.

I take back all mean things and i'll just say i really really really dislike him.

[Jaredloverforever]

I'm a Republican becuase I know that being a Republican, is financailly in my best interest. I also agree with going into Iraq, we had to get Sadaam out, we just had to, he was a horrible man, doing horrible things to his people. I also don't believe in abortion nor do I believe in gay marriage. I also don't believe that we need the government overly involved in every aspect of our lives. I am a business major, I want to be big business, and Republicans support big business, democrats don't normally tend to be as supportive of big business, they feel that it is horrible for society, I tend to disagree. I also just believed that Kerry was not the right person to lead. I had a serious problem with his stand on North Korea, and I wouldn't have felt comfortable, or safe, waking up everyday with a person in charge who saw nothing wrong with that stance on NK, it was just a recipe for disaster. The whole, bilateral talks thing was ridiculous, that was one of the major reasons I couldn't let him get elected. I've stuided economics and I believe in Reganomics and Laissez-Fairre economics and that the government should just stay out of the economy. I am not a fan of Keynsian economics at all, which alot of democrats support, I don't.

The whole 1 vote=1 vote thing, our founding fathers believed that that would lead to too many cooks in the kitchen so to speak and that to count all of those votes would take too long and be too chaotic, which is why we have the electoral college, think of it what you will, but that is it's purpose, to prevent mass confusion, it isn't always successful.

I wasn't angry at your for disliking him, afterall, this is America, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I was just angry with the way you said it, that's all. It made you seem uninformed, and I hardly think that was your intent. All I was trying to do was to get you to tone down the way you stated your opinion, and you did, so that's fine, it no longer angers me. The fact that you did gives me a ton of respect for you since I see that it was not your intent for what your said to come out the way it was taken.

[skftex]

My most major problem with Bush would be the whole Iraq thing. What your countries government has done to countries surrounding it e.g. Nicaragua is just stupid!

I'm not trying to cause trouble really but this statement confuses me beyond anything. Countries surrounding what?? IRAQ?  If that is what you meant, Nicaragua is in Central America, between Honduras and Costa Rica.

Jaredloverforever, would you mind explaining why you are against gay marriage?  I would like to hear from someone that is against it to hear exactly where the problem is.  Not that I think it'll change my mind or yours but I'd like you to expand on it.  Thanks!

By the way, I tend to vote Republican too, not that I think that part matters. 

Sharon

[Jaredloverforever]

I'm against gay marriage, not gay rights. I want to point out that there is a difference. I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. The purpose of marriage, technically is so that one can reproduce with the spouse, in the case of gay marriage, they can't biologically reproduce. I also believe that it's been that way for thousands of years, and it's worked fine. My bigges problem is something that we discussed in one of my Poli Sci classes, I'm minoring in Poli Sci. We were discussing how, once you allow people to marry people of the same sex, by saying they have a right to be "happy" where do you draw the line? Technically, under that argument, then, if someone would be happy marrying their dog, then it should be legal. It isn't, for a reason. Not that most people would, but there are a ton of whackos out there who might do something like that. In saying everyone has a right to be happy, the line becomes blurred and you have the case of people who marry cousins, which is illegal, but if it makes them happy and that's what they want, then why not? That's my biggest issue, is where do we draw the line? If we extend it for some people, then we have to do so for everyone who wants to be "happy". As crazy as it sounds, there are people out there who would do things like that.

I do however, believe that gay couples should be entitled to the same rights as others, but marriage is between a man and a woman, "by the powers vested in me, by the state of [insert state] I know pronounce you husband and wife". That's the way it's always been for a reason. I also don't think it's an issue to be taken up in a Presidential election. States recognize marriages, hence, by the powers vested in me by the state of, so it's a state issue, to be determined by the individual states, not by the President. Also, the President, even if we had a 100% Republican Congress wouldn't pass the law, he would never get it through and he won't now if he tries. So it frusterates me that people spend so much time focusing on this when it is a non-issue for the President, they should take it up with their Senators and their state governments. I mean, we have so many other things to worry about right now, the war, terrorism, hurricanes, the economy, worriying about this seems like a waste of time to me. Especially when everyone is all over the President about it and failing to recognize that they are barking up the wrong tree so to speak.


Sorry to get all wordy and ranty, but I felt the need to elaborate. Bottom line, I'm against gay marriage, not gay rights, and I want people to see that there is a difference-not intended at you-just people in general.

Hope that helps you to see it from a different view point, and just to be fair, I do understand people's reasonings for wanting it, I just don't agree with it.

[skftex]

I understand the difference and I didn't feel like you were ranting at all.  That's why I asked why you are against it, just to hear some reasons behind it, and you present your side very well so I thought you'd be a good person to ask.   I have to say, I don't really like that you said it has been that way for thousands of years, because that's not the best argument against something, just because thats the way it has always been doesn't make it right.  Other than that, I think you made good points.  My problem with not allowing it is that I do feel it steps on some of the rights that being married gives people in the US at least.  I agree it's not a Presidential issue and I honestly don't think it'd be able to pass Congress.  The problem is that President Bush chose to make a statement saying he supports the ban, which moved it into his area when he really had no intention of trying to get it passed I don't think.

Sharon

[Stephanie]

I agree with Sharon. I think your ideas were clear Jaredloverforever, but I would like to hear soem solid reasoning behind why you think marriage isn't allowed for gay couples, I understand you have a problem with the word marriage and that it applies to male/female - but I beleive marriage is the union of two people who are in love and BTW whose to say gay couple can't have kids anymore. I think gay couples not being allowed to marry is quite outdated and a little ridiculous when you think about all the technological advances we make and everything else going on this world - bring on more love baby, god knows we need it!