Off topic: Political thread

[White Onyx]

 I totally agree!

In the Netherlands our government arrested 7 suspected terrorist this week. Two of them were arrested before for terrorist. For one of them it's his 3e time....every time our government didn't have enough evidence. Now they even have evidence that he tried to buy the weapons and he made 2 tapes to his loved ones. But his defence said that that wasn't admissible in court. 'I feel safe'! 

[Morada]

Both Viagra and BC have “frivilous/non-medical” uses as well as valid medical uses.  Therefore they should be covered in the same fashion whatever that may be.

When I had "real" insurance (instead of the joke that is Medicare), they would pay for birth control pills ONLY if they were for medical reasons; i.e. endometriosis and the like.  The problem with setting a standard for any type of prescription medicine is there are always doctors out there who are willing to abuse the system.  When I was younger, the doctor put me on birth control pills for medical reasons, but as I got older I had to get off of them because they have bad side affects if you use them for too long a period of time.  Sure, there are women who can take them all their lives and never have a problem, but as you get older you have to worry about things like cancer and heart attacks from a combination of deadly lifestyle choices that are only exacerbated by birth control pills. 

When it comes to Viagra, there will always be those physicians who seek to abuse the use of the medicine by giving it to men who really don't need it, but instead are using it to attract younger women with their staying power.  The pharmacist isn't going to know the difference between the two types - those who have a serious problem and those who use it recreationally.  They can only fill what the doctor gives them to fill. 

The one thing people should keep in mind about birth control pills is that they are NOT 100% effective.  I believe in everyone's right to choose their own sexual relationship guidelines, but my own personal beliefs are don't sleep with a guy unless you are willing to be married to him for the rest of your life and bear his children.  I know several people who were on the pill and STILL got pregnant.  Living with someone just because they knocked you up really screws up the kids, because they can sense that neither one of you is committed to the other and that will color the way they view their own relationships and the respect that should exist between a man and a woman. 

[Kukalaka]

In Germany, I think there we don't have problem that pharmacists refuse to fill out prescriptions for Birth Control products. That might be, because Germans aren't so religious.

[Alliansa]

I can't really choose an opinion from the list, heh. In some ways they're doing a great job, like decent school meals etc. Other ways they suck, like Iraq. I don't mind them supporting the US (hey, our countries are like, the closest in the world, lol), and our troops seem to be doing great with the kids from what I've seen and heard, but they need to send some more of them home to their families I think. At least in time for Christmas, before they can't do it again.

[seacloud49]

In Germany, I think there we don't have problem that pharmacists refuse to fill out prescriptions for Birth Control products. That might be, because Germans aren't so religious.

Yeah, when I started reading this thread, I was like "Huh?? What pharmacist doesn't fill out a BC prescription??". I've never heard of something like that happening in Germany.

[Krisleigh]

I actually think the state choices given to pharmacists (on not giving out birth control) is fairly new. It's only in certain states at the moment, but many pro-lifers are trying to turn it into a federal case. And, of course, the pharmacists refusing say that they can't prevent the bringing of a human life and live with themselves. And really, the thing is that instead their causing more unwanted children to be born into unhappy families which causes more poverty and overpopulation. Thing is, the god of the many triumphs the good of one.


And then there's the medicinal reasons, of course. Endometriosis; as Morada mentioned, heavy bleeding, post-partum problems, debilitating cramps, hormone imbalance, et cetera. ANd the pharmacist's just get a little slip of paper with a perscription and a signature, they have no idea why Susie Homemaker has a perscription for Ortho Tri-Cyclen, they only know that their against the use of contraceptive.

I wish these peoples mothers had been advocates of such methods.

Along with condoms, diaphragms and about everything else.

[White Onyx]

  Okay my opinion on the prevention matter is kinda hard to explain. I believe in God and I life like my heart and ethics say that's right. Not in what a man who thinks his point of view is what Gods wanted. I believe in God but I'm not religious (to me every religion is basically the same and I respect everybody’s religion because of it, cause if you believe you believe in the same thing I do, you just name it differently). So prevention to me isn't murder. Cause I believe God controls everything. Everything happens for a reason. So me choosing to prevent getting pregnant is also Gods work...cause he made me to think this way. Abortion would be a totally different matter. Cause part of me thinks that it’s murder and it’s never good, but well if you prevent a seriously screwed up kid (cause daddy reaped mommy or mommy didn't want you and now hates you for it) well that's something to think about. If I look at it from a religious point of view....to me everything happens for a reason. It was Gods will that I became pregnant. But it isn't Gods will (to me)  that I automatically keep the baby, cause maybe the abortion part was the thing that I was meant to go threw as Gods plan for me. To make me learn something from it. So I kinda don't have an opinion on the abortion issue. I can say it's not something for me, but as long as you're not in that situation you don't know.

Okay different subject….homosexual’s. As I said I was raised religious. So when I was little my schoolteacher said it was against Gods will. My uncle is gay so my parents didn’t think that way about it. Which kinda made me think as a little girl. Now that I’m bigger and well I’m Dutch so you can guess what my opinion is about this matter. I feel that everything happens for a reason. God created that man with a brain that makes him attracted to other man. I don’t believe God makes mistakes. And I get really pissed of if a priest thinks that God was against gay people. That (to me) would be the same thing as saying: ‘I know better what God wants than God does himself’. God made a gay person that way for a reason….maybe he/she is suppose to learn something from the experience of being a gay person in a heterosexual world. Personately I’m not gay. But to me that only means that God has other issues for me to deal with on my path. I wish them luck on their path just like I hope they wish me luck as well. That’s why I’m happy my government lets gay couples get married and have kids like every other human on this planet. They have the right. And to not let another human be happy, find love, have a family or beat the crap out of them for being themselves is unethical to me and against my believes. God would never EVER say yes to hurting someone or taking away someone’s rights, just because they are different. I saw a show on TV a couple of weeks ago and this was being discussed on it and a guy said; ’Yes, but paedophiles are different as well, so should they have the right to  be with kids’. To me that kind of thinking makes me sick. You can’t compare a paedophile with a gay person. First of all gay people don’t hurt nobody. And a child should be protected…a fully grown guy that loves man shouldn’t cause it’s his free will to sleep with men….a kid doesn’t want to sleep with a grown man.

I hope I didn’t offend anybody, but that’s just what I feel. So if you don’t agree, feel free to post back. But don’t snark.


 

[Stephanie]

Think about this: if abortion became illegal, then poor girls and women would be forced to use backyard abortions again - I'm not sure if you understand what this is but it isn't pretty!! If abortion became illegal it would prove that the government (whatever the nation) is out-dated and quite frankly ignorant and idiotic.
Which leads me to the homosexual debate! A relationship should be based and judged on love and stability irrespective of sexual preference. People should be judged on their content of character and personality. We are all humans!! I think it is about time the old guys in government should freakin' realise this and get the damn imagined social hierachy out of their heads, I mean they just keep proving that they are racist, purist, homophobic, ignorant old people who for some reason beleive they are better than the rest of the world.

[skftex]

Sadly it's not just the people in the government that believe that gays shouldn't marry.  It's a huge percentage of the US population.  Personally, I don't understand what they are accomplishing by denying gays the right to be married.  They say it "degrades the sanctity of marriage" but how?  Basically they don't believe in the lifestyle, but denying gays the right to marry doesn't stop them from being gay, or having a long term relationship and living with another man (or woman).  All they are REALLY accomplishing is making things hard money wise for a gay couple (can't put a non-working partner on a working partners medical insurance, etc).  It isn't going to stop gay people from having relationships that suit them. 

Sharon

[White Onyx]

Stephanie I totally agree! skftex I agree with you too, the thing I don't get is that 'degrades the sanctity of marriage' argument. Sorry but look at the divorce rate....those are man and wife....THAT'S degrading the sanctity of marriage. Those gay guys just wanna be married like every other human on this planet. Sure some will get devorced and degrade the sanctity of marriage, but a lot of them just want to have a lovin' home with the person of their dreams. I know I the Netherlands their are only people anti-gay people. But luckely our government has always done the things most countries didn't so;
- being a ho is a job and they need to pay tax. So that their 'working'conditions can be inspected...they gets tests and everything. They don't need to walk the streets, and have alarm buttons if something goes wrong. 
- small amounts of dope are 'legal'...well they won't arrest you for it....hence the coffee shops. The idea behind that is that people get clean dope and don't have to deal with shady characters. And they can get help if they are addicted. That way you know who uses, instead of having everything happen on the streets.

Sure I am against ho's and dope, but you can't stop people from doing these things. At least you can help them and make it more safe for them. Instead of telling them how wrong they are...what is that gonna do...besides fill up the prisons. 

[skftex]

Good points about "the sanctity of marriage" White Onyx.  I really don't understand that either, how a man and a man living together in a house down the street (or wherever) would hurt MY life if I chose to get married (since I'm not gay and if I married it'd be a male/female relationship).   

I've always thought that prostitution should be made legal here in the US.  It'd take it off the streets and make it a tax paying job as you said! Of course that's assuming they'd make enough to have to pay taxes on.  Getting medical insurance would be a bit harder here since they'd have to work for an employer that offers it and I can't see a lot of pimps, even if their business were legal, having an insurance plan!

Sharon

[White Onyx]

In The Netherlands the ho's get checked, depends on the ho. A company wants to help them. They even have a panic button neck to their beds if a guy goes nuts or something. Sure I think going to a ho is well.....pretty sad and I would definitely dump my man if he would go to one. But for those guys that can't get any even if their life depended on it, a union for ho's might be a good thing. Kinda funny story. When the profession of being a ho got recognized in the Netherlands the computer had a little glitch. A nurse who lost her job got a letter by the government telling her she was qualified to be a ho. They fixed it, but it was kinda funny....our government recruiting woman to be ho's.   Well that’s what I heard anyways.

[White Onyx]

Okay new political topic: Water management / climate changes.
When I saw the horrible events in the USA  mounts ago it really shocked the crap out of me. Not only because of how horrible it was or because the levees were really old-fashioned. But also because it reminded me of a history class I took years ago. In 1953 The Netherlands was floated by a massive storm surge because our old levees gave way. Those images I saw on CNN looked so much like the history footage, pictures and stories we saw. Many years ago we too only had those levees and some pumps to keep us dry. And just like Louisiana etc we too are a delta nation. Our country lives of it’s shipping so you can’t just close it off. But when the levees give way most of the Netherlands will be floated cause we are below sea level.

Okay before I say what I came here to say. I just wanted to add that the way Bush acted was the second reason why I was shocked. Cause when out country was floated our old queen actually helped the people, sure she was wet and looked like hell, but she did her job as a queen: she represented the nation, she cared for her people and didn’t give a shit if she got wet doing it. Cause ‘the same day’ she was out there helping people. Kinda like I saw Oprah do. She gave hope to those who needed it. She DID NOT fly over to see how wet they were and wait till it was safe to talk to the people….well if a camera was present that is.  Okay I’m getting of track here.

I saw on the Dutch news that the USA will send over some officials to visit the Dutch water management vacillates this January.  They’re a little late, cause the Japanese etc have been here years ago, but anyways I wanted to post some stuff about the Dutch water management so that you guys will know it before your officials do. Okay I don’t know that much about it, but I can tell you the stuff I do know.

After the storm surge off 1953 when our levees gave way and most of our country was floated. The Dutch government started spending a lot of money on water management. Well to be earnest I use to think that they were making the taxpayers pay for something very pointless. Cause I never knew about that storm surge, I’m from an era that had no trouble with water what so ever….I just thought: ’so your garden is a little wet, so what?’. Keep in mind that I was younger than 10 at the time, so don’t snark me for being heartless and dumb, cause I realise that now. Although some politicians are still thinking that till this day (what’s their excuse?) , but that’s a totally different subject so moving on… After that horrible storm surge the Dutch Government started building a new project in 1979 called: the delta project. It’s a storm surge barrier that’s flexible to allow water to flow threw it to keep our marine life alive, but it will be closed when necessary. This ,next to several levees threw out the nation (as sort of a back up system), will keep the north of the Netherlands dry. The problem was Rotterdam. It’s a hugh port that must stay open cause it supply’s a big part of Europe…hell it supplies even outside of just Europe. So they built a floating gate that will stay open so that our port can stay in business, but when needed the computer (which checks out weather forecasts and is connected to sensors on bays in the Nothsea) will close the gate. In 2002 it was tested and it worked. Well it started to close but opened again, cause the computer noticed that it was 1 cm below the danger level. And our government thinks that we can better have a non-emotional computer decide when to close the gate then a human who will close the gate when he’s scared his house might get wet. But anyways, it worked. The ships even got their 4 hour warning to get the hell back inside the gate. So that’s basically the Dutch line of diverse. It’s taken very seriously in the Netherlands. Our future king even works at the department that manages the water. Apparently he knows a lot about these things. He kinda has to if he wants to have a country to ‘rule’. But lately the earth has gone insane, which is why we signed the Kyoto treaty. And we are getting wetter and wetter due too climate changes. So in the Netherlands they have started building floating homes and floating roads in areas that are high risk. If a levee does break the roads and homes will simply flood in place and rice with the water level. Kinda funny actually, it’s like looking at the movie ‘water world’. And last year the Dutch government has started doing something different which they informed us the people of by making commercials staring our local weatherman etc. When water levels get to high our government will deliberately break levees to get the pressure down. They will float grasslands and small villages to prevent a floated city. Of course they will warn and evacuate the people before they do that. And they will actually pay for the damages to the homes and stuff. So instead of just those levees we have a several layered plan of defence against the water.

I was raised to believe everything has it’s purpose. So I guess something good came out of the USA and Asian tragedy. Maybe this was a wake up call. And now maybe more countries will join the Netherlands and will invest in water management. Our climate is getting worse, it will happen again if we don’t put our heads together and think of something. The Dutch already have some experience but we are small…so the more the merrier I guess. I also love what Italy is planning on doing to help Venice.

[Stephanie]

Totally agree with you!!!

On the Katrina tragedy, I agree with you on the George Bush thing - what an idiot. AND you can't tell me that if the effected area had been populated with white rich folk that that area wouldn't have been evacuated and cared for a lot sooner and efficiently than what it was. I heard the police chief say that the tragedy wasn't Katrina herself but what happened after she that was the real tragedy. And yes, thank God for Oprah putting the real issue out there and digging in, but on that note I didn't see her doing too much for the tsunami victims (a tragedy which saw much more death and disease than Katrina), which leads me to my next point. Yes USA is the richest country in the world, but they are not immune to natural destruction - for some reason they (when I say they I usually mean the government in charge) think because they are "american" crap doesn't happen to them, this one lady said to the news camera "this is happens to 3rd world countries, not to America" - what the hell!
They have so much money but sometimes I think they waste it on cowboy causes and not worldly issues.

[Jaredloverforever]

Totally agree with you!!!

On the Katrina tragedy, I agree with you on the George Bush thing - what an idiot. AND you can't tell me that if the effected area had been populated with white rich folk that that area wouldn't have been evacuated and cared for a lot sooner and efficiently than what it was. I heard the police chief say that the tragedy wasn't Katrina herself but what happened after she that was the real tragedy. And yes, thank God for Oprah putting the real issue out there and digging in, but on that note I didn't see her doing too much for the tsunami victims (a tragedy which saw much more death and disease than Katrina), which leads me to my next point. Yes USA is the richest country in the world, but they are not immune to natural destruction - for some reason they (when I say they I usually mean the government in charge) think because they are "american" crap doesn't happen to them, this one lady said to the news camera "this is happens to 3rd world countries, not to America" - what the hell!
They have so much money but sometimes I think they waste it on cowboy causes and not worldly issues.

We spent tons of time talking  about this in my Western Political Heritage class, Bush is not responsible for what happend, even if Kerry, God help us all, had been elected, and he had been in charge when this tragedy I wouldn't turn around and blame him. The President is not the one to look to here, no matter who he is. What about the city gov't or the state gov't for that matter? They are the "first responders". It was their responsibility to step in right away and do something and to make the situation better, they didn't. Yet noone seems to look at that. It's all let's blame the president for everything. I suppossed next people are going to say that Bush caused the hurricane. What else is new? I don't mean this to anyone in general, just society, because I am sick and tired of hearing how the President failed to do something, while noone even stops for a second to examine the actions of the state/local governments, or lack there of for that matter. We were talking in class about what the state/local people were doing while all this was happening. They were doing nothing. It took them like 3 days or longer to get a bus in there, that's ridiculous. They are also, and not to sound biased, or anything, just talking factually here, one of the most corrupt local governments in the country. That's why people are concerned about handing over money, because they know from previous experience that it's going to be $2 for the government officials who steal it, and maybe, at best $1 for the people who need it. As tragic as it is, that's the way some of those governments work. What I'm saying, is that people need to look first to the local government, then to the state, then the Federal Government. Everyone seems to bypass the local and state part and go right to blaming the Federal Government. I am not saying their reaction was the best, it wasn't. It was weak, but you can't sit around and put all the blame on them, to do so is ignorant. You must acknowlede the role, or lack there of, that the local and state government played in what happened.

And yes, people in America seem to be under the impression that stuff like this can't happen here, well it can and it does. It's unfortunate, but that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger and we learn from our mistakes. It was tragic and my deepest apologies go out to those affected, but we must learn from our mistakes and do our best not to repeat them. The first step is rebuilding and that will involve elected a non-corrupt government in New Orleans that will see to it that the allocated money goes towards the relief effort not into the pockets of politicans. Then levees must be improved, because the ones we have now clearly aren't working. Then we must find a way to prevent tragedies like this from happening again, possibly by raising all the houses. I did read in the paper awhile ago about the floating houses, I think it was in the Wall Street Journal. They sounded like a good start.

As for the climate, well, unless we are able to change society and their consumption habits, I'm not sure that much is going to matter. I'm an environmentalist, but I'm also a realist. I would love for this to be an ideal world, but unless people find a way to change an entire world, I don't think that goal is ever attainable. It would be nice if it could happen though.

Remember, my intent was not to attack anyone specifically, it was simply to point out the common trend of just blaming the Federal Government for something that they should not be entirely blamed for. I want people to understand that the local and state government is just as responsible if not more for what happened. I just get so frusterated with everyone failing to place the blame where it is actually due.