Mitchum Huntzberger / Gregg Henry Appreciation
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Author Topic: Mitchum Huntzberger / Gregg Henry Appreciation  (Read 26550 times)
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2006, 11:59:36 pm »

Interesting about Shira being vain and shallow.  Since it was implied that she was of a lower social class than the Gilmores before she got married, I guess she must be overcompensating now.  And, I've read that people who don't grow up wealthy but become wealthy later on are sometimes more snobbish than the people who grow up around it.  Probably trying to distance themselves from their old lives.

As for Mitchum, if he's second generation, maybe he grew up having all the comforts, but also hearing about how his family had to work that way to get where they are.  If the fortune was made by Grandpa Huntzberger, than the time from when they weren't rich and the time they were wouldn't be too far apart when Mitchum was younger.  Hmm, not sure if I'm explaining it right.  I mean, Logan most likely doesn't even have a second hand experience of not having a lot of money.  All the way back to his grandfather, he's seen a bunch of people who've never had to do anything since he's known them.  But, the difference with Mitchum is, he feels that he should (and it seems his own father also felt that way) and he seems to like his work. 

I do wonder what will happen if they decide to make Logan find an interest that's not in the newspaper world.  Is Mitchum stuck on the whole joining the family business?  Or would he just be happy to see Logan on a path, and right now, the path he took is the one he knows how to guide Logan to? 

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« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2006, 09:26:36 pm »

I'm not usually an appreciator of Mitch Huntzberger, but this opinion is driven by the assumption that he is both evenhanded and benevolent.

When he told Rory she didn't have 'it,' and suggested she become an assistant she came back and earned his respect (which he admits by taking credit for her dazzling comeback.) It, I assume, is the ruthlessness and fearlessness she learned from the DAR and the LDB.

Having lived through it himself, Mitch knows the desperation and hopelessness Logan is feeling about his future right now, and while it is the only way he knows how to push his son to be more than a waste of brains and talent, he may secretly be hoping his son will defy him and earn his respect another way like Rory did.
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« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2006, 02:48:35 am »

I don't know if I really like Mitchum, but i definitely find him interesting, and that he is "growing on me".

It is funny he really reminds me of some old fashioned movie star, perhaps a mafioso or something. Especially his voice has some kind of chichago mob-boss tone to it Wink Which I like Smiley

I think that Mitchum can be a bit harsh and perhaps cold to his surroundings, but I also sees him as somebody who is trying to do what he thinks its best for the people around him... So even if you don't agree with his actions I at least can't help "admiring" him for being so hmmm focused (in lack of a better word)

In the case of Logan, I see where he is coming from, even if I do think that perhaps it would be better to let him sort himself out, like I'm sure he would. Though I'm sure that London will sort him out as well, but still it would be better for him to have found his own way and realize what it is he wants to do...

With Rory, I think that he as a man of privileges, think that he has the right to talk to people as he sees fit (as Logan did in the beginning as well)... In the end I guess he did her a favour, but I also think she could have found her inner resource with out the crush from him.
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« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2006, 11:14:33 am »

I think one thing we have to remember is Mitchum got this same treatment when he was younger.  So, from his experience, it's a good thing.  It makes you grow up and he hasn't regretted it. From the perspective of people on the outside (us) it's easier to see alternatives or holes in his plan.  But, it's like a custom that seems perfectly normal to you, but others who haven't done it think of it as odd.  It's also possible that Mitchum was just as "wild" as Logan when he was young, so if he's going by his own experience, this seems like the best option to him, since he enjoys what he does now.
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« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2006, 11:34:18 am »

And from what we have been told, Logan is smart and a very good writer (Doyle mentioned this to Rory when Logan made his first appearance in the Yale news room).  Where the problem lies isn't because Logan isn't interested in journalism or making it work, but in being told that he would one day be the heir and forced into the business.  Logan has the ability, he just was wasting it during his college years.  He enjoyed not having the responsibility or direction...and even claimed he was going to party it up while he could.  To me that is just immaturity - not necessarily a rejection of the chosen path.  There is, as has been said, a certain work ethic being instilled here in Logan....where he will know that all the wealth didn't just appear one day-but was worked for.  As a parent,  Mitchum would fail if he didnt give Logan a push at this point in his life to make something of himself.  Logan doesnt appreciate, yet, what his father has done for him .  The view he has of his dad is off.(remember hindsight is 20/20)  What young adult/teenager doesnt often question or dislike the plans their parents have for them...or the push for them to grow up.  No bird really wants to leave the comfy spot in the nest. 
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« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2006, 12:07:40 pm »

I think one thing we have to remember is Mitchum got this same treatment when he was younger.  So, from his experience, it's a good thing.  It makes you grow up and he hasn't regretted it. From the perspective of people on the outside (us) it's easier to see alternatives or holes in his plan.  But, it's like a custom that seems perfectly normal to you, but others who haven't done it think of it as odd.  It's also possible that Mitchum was just as "wild" as Logan when he was young, so if he's going by his own experience, this seems like the best option to him, since he enjoys what he does now.

'Aye, therein lieth the rub.' If you think Mitchum Huntzberger is happy with his own life, it's easy to rationalize his behavior into concern for his son. (But even then I find it a little controlling.)
I don't believe he is happy for reasons I've stated. But even if he is happy with his professional life and only miserable with his home life, he's still not setting the best example for his son. Mitch could keep pressing Logan in the hopes his son will eventually catch up to him, or he could set Logan free and have a chance at his son being great instead.

I concede that Logan is a bit spoiled, but he's not a child, and his parents are no longer capable of unspoiling him. His life of privelege has distorted his sense of reality and made him fearless of the consequences of his actions. Rory is the only thing he has that he can lose by acting recklessly, and so far, she has been the only one who could change his mind about any of his childish behavior.
If Mitch got her on his side about the London trip by accident, not knowing how it would affect Logan's attitude, then  the man must be able to shoot holes-in-one blindfolded on luck alone.

Still, it's possible. If that's the case, then I'd like to know why it's so important to him to see his son in charge of the family dynasty. Logan has never shown any interest in the business end of journalism, and he doesn't seem to approach his work with a good ethic. Is this really a good choice for a man who cares about either the company or his son? Maybe Mitch's father is the driving force behind this 'destiny' and Mitch goes along because he is so thoroughly disgusted with Logan's choices so far. He just doesn't trust his adult son to be anyone special without it being forced on him, and so his actions are well-intentioned, but couterproductive. A more enlightened but less caring father would simply toss Logan out to sink or swim on his own.
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« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2006, 12:23:02 pm »

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It's also possible that Mitchum was just as "wild" as Logan when he was young, so if he's going by his own experience, this seems like the best option to him, since he enjoys what he does now.

I agree, that this propably is why Mitchum is doing what he is doing, and thinks that giving a push is the best way to get what he sees as his somewhat out of order son to mature is apropriate since this was what his father did to him...

I agree though with Lessa, that Mutchum doesn't seem to be fully contend with his life... his worklife perhaps, but his he doesn't seem to have much respect for his wife...





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« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2006, 03:23:28 pm »



I concede that Logan is a bit spoiled, but he's not a child, and his parents are no longer capable of unspoiling him. His life of privelege has distorted his sense of reality and made him fearless of the consequences of his actions. Rory is the only thing he has that he can lose by acting recklessly, and so far, she has been the only one who could change his mind about any of his childish behavior.
If Mitch got her on his side about the London trip by accident, not knowing how it would affect Logan's attitude, then  the man must be able to shoot holes-in-one blindfolded on luck alone.

Sure they can unspoil him.  Take away his cash flow.  How do you think Logan is paying for that apartment, the car service, his liquor bill?  Daddy's deep pockets.  As long as the flow is there, Logan doesn't have to do anything but party.  But, Mitchum doesn't want to just take away his means of living and cast him to the lions.  He wants to give him something better than a check book. 

Quote
Still, it's possible. If that's the case, then I'd like to know why it's so important to him to see his son in charge of the family dynasty. Logan has never shown any interest in the business end of journalism, and he doesn't seem to approach his work with a good ethic. Is this really a good choice for a man who cares about either the company or his son? Maybe Mitch's father is the driving force behind this 'destiny' and Mitch goes along because he is so thoroughly disgusted with Logan's choices so far. He just doesn't trust his adult son to be anyone special without it being forced on him, and so his actions are well-intentioned, but couterproductive. A more enlightened but less caring father would simply toss Logan out to sink or swim on his own.

Well, there's family pride.  It's not so uncommon to want your kid to join in the family business. And, this is an area where he can help Logan get a foot in, again beyond just throwing money at it.  He knows the business itself, the right people.  Plus, maybe he's thinking that Logan hasn't really shown much of an interest in anything beyond partying and only recently Rory.  So, he doesn't really know of any alternative options.  He's seen Logan treat the actual reporter aspect of journalism as a hobby (must be aggravating for him if he sees Logan's talent).  So, he can't give him talk and say, "Logan, I'm your father and I don't like what I see.  You can't just waste your life, just because you have money.  Okay, you don't want to be part of the business.  But, you like -insert possible career leading interest- so why don't you try to do something with that, and I'll help you out."  Unfortunately, we're left again with Logan having no interests that we know of that could lead to that. 

Now, I must have missed your post about Mitchum being unhappy.  Can you point me in the direction of it, so I can read it?
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« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2006, 11:37:10 am »

Sure they can unspoil him.  Take away his cash flow.  How do you think Logan is paying for that apartment, the car service, his liquor bill?  Daddy's deep pockets.  As long as the flow is there, Logan doesn't have to do anything but party.  But, Mitchum doesn't want to just take away his means of living and cast him to the lions.  He wants to give him something better than a check book. 

Mitch doesn't want his son unspoiled, he wants him to follow his own footsteps. As long as bribing him with (and making him dependent on) fabulous wealth will secure that, he doesn't care how Logan spends the money.

Quote
Well, there's family pride.  It's not so uncommon to want your kid to join in the family business. And, this is an area where he can help Logan get a foot in, again beyond just throwing money at it.  He knows the business itself, the right people.  Plus, maybe he's thinking that Logan hasn't really shown much of an interest in anything beyond partying and only recently Rory.  So, he doesn't really know of any alternative options.  He's seen Logan treat the actual reporter aspect of journalism as a hobby (must be aggravating for him if he sees Logan's talent).  So, he can't give him talk and say, "Logan, I'm your father and I don't like what I see.  You can't just waste your life, just because you have money.  Okay, you don't want to be part of the business.  But, you like -insert possible career leading interest- so why don't you try to do something with that, and I'll help you out."  Unfortunately, we're left again with Logan having no interests that we know of that could lead to that. 

Logan doesn't need a leg up, and Mitch knows it. And even if that's what he wants to do for his son, it won't do any good until Logan begins climbing by himself. A lot has been made of how Logan can't escape his family business without an alternative, but I think that alternative doesn't exist because he isn't planning on escaping. Honest, I don't think he even knows he can. His father's reaction to the idea of him taking the Summer off to see Asia with Rory at the Vineyard (heck, the way he reacted to Logan taking Valentine's weekend off) is probably just one event in a long line of Mitch crushing Logan's dreams before they can develop past the 'clown school' level.

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Now, I must have missed your post about Mitchum being unhappy.  Can you point me in the direction of it, so I can read it?

The thing is, it dropped off the face of the earth. I'll reiterate: Mitch barely knows his daughter, his wife is a stress-smoking sycophant to his father, (undoubtedly a hollow shell of the girl he married,) and his father, a crotchety and vindictive elitist, has the final say in all his family business. And Emily says he cheats on Shira, even though it apparently makes her stress-eat. It's no wonder he doesn't bother showing up for dinner, even when his roundabout son is bringing a girlfriend(!) home to meet him. And it's no wonder he makes Logan, who actually resembles him a great deal, the focus of all his hopes and disappointments.
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« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2006, 12:23:07 pm »



Logan doesn't need a leg up, and Mitch knows it. And even if that's what he wants to do for his son, it won't do any good until Logan begins climbing by himself. A lot has been made of how Logan can't escape his family business without an alternative, but I think that alternative doesn't exist because he isn't planning on escaping. Honest, I don't think he even knows he can. His father's reaction to the idea of him taking the Summer off to see Asia with Rory at the Vineyard (heck, the way he reacted to Logan taking Valentine's weekend off) is probably just one event in a long line of Mitch crushing Logan's dreams before they can develop past the 'clown school' level.

Why doesn't he need a leg up?  And, if Logan isn't going to climb, what would a man like Mitchum do?  Just sit there while Logan just sits there?  Plus, Mitchum's reaction to going to Asia or to the Vineyard was the reaction to Logan again goofing off.  No, actually, I don't even know that Mitchum knew about Asia.  Logan probably doesn't talk about his plans with Rory to Mitchum.  So, he wasn't crushing Logan's plans to make a trip to Asia.  Not deliberately.  He just had a plan set for Logan to start doing doing something responsible (aside from his identity as a boyfriend).  The Vineyard thing was because the meetings Logan was supposed to be going to had all been set, and Logan went off and played hooky.  Without saying anything, leaving a bunch of busy people hanging.  I think Logan may feel that he doesn't have any alternatives, but I don't think we've been actually given any real examples of him having a dream or trying to pursue it and being shot down.  I really don't count not being able to spend a weekend with Rory as dream crushing.  And, even if it was, it's not Mitchum actively trying to crush his dreams, because as far as he knows, Logan doesn't have any.  He's not trying to keep Logan from Rory.  I'm sure if Rory was able to find some way to go spend the year in London, Mitchum wouldn't send Logan somewhere else.


Quote
The thing is, it dropped off the face of the earth. I'll reiterate: Mitch barely knows his daughter, his wife is a stress-smoking sycophant to his father, (undoubtedly a hollow shell of the girl he married,) and his father, a crotchety and vindictive elitist, has the final say in all his family business. And Emily says he cheats on Shira, even though it apparently makes her stress-eat. It's no wonder he doesn't bother showing up for dinner, even when his roundabout son is bringing a girlfriend(!) home to meet him. And it's no wonder he makes Logan, who actually resembles him a great deal, the focus of all his hopes and disappointments.

Ah.  Okay, I meant professionally he seems to be happy.  He enjoys his work, he has a purpose.  And, he got his start not by just deciding to be a journalist, but because his dad pushed him into it.  And, if he was like Logan in his youth (they were both in the LDB) he might have been initially as reluctant.  So, he still could assume that once Logan was firmly on the path, that Logan would start liking it.  He might very well be wrong, but based on experience, I could see why he would think so.

I just wish we knew more about who Logan was aside from his problems with his dad and his relationship with Rory.  For one thing, I wish we knew what his major was, if he picked it out himself.
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« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2006, 12:44:20 pm »


Why doesn't he need a leg up?  And, if Logan isn't going to climb, what would a man like Mitchum do?  Just sit there while Logan just sits there?  Plus, Mitchum's reaction to going to Asia or to the Vineyard was the reaction to Logan again goofing off.  No, actually, I don't even know that Mitchum knew about Asia.  Logan probably doesn't talk about his plans with Rory to Mitchum.  So, he wasn't crushing Logan's plans to make a trip to Asia.  Not deliberately.  He just had a plan set for Logan to start doing doing something responsible (aside from his identity as a boyfriend).  The Vineyard thing was because the meetings Logan was supposed to be going to had all been set, and Logan went off and played hooky.  Without saying anything, leaving a bunch of busy people hanging.  I think Logan may feel that he doesn't have any alternatives, but I don't think we've been actually given any real examples of him having a dream or trying to pursue it and being shot down.  I really don't count not being able to spend a weekend with Rory as dream crushing.  And, even if it was, it's not Mitchum actively trying to crush his dreams, because as far as he knows, Logan doesn't have any.  He's not trying to keep Logan from Rory.  I'm sure if Rory was able to find some way to go spend the year in London, Mitchum wouldn't send Logan somewhere else.

Logan doesn't need a leg up because he's brilliant, talented, witty and convincing. He knows how to make contacts, and he knows how to write a resume. Mitch can't be afraid Logan won't be able to find work. And if Logan doesn't tell his father about his plans with Rory, then either he isn't too serious about them, or he really is afraid of his father. (Rationally, as it turns out. Mitch immediately lowered the boom when his plans were questioned.)
As far as dreams go, what do you think is more important? Dream job or dream girl? Logan has only one of these if he stays, but neither if he goes. (Except Rory wouldn't be his dream girl if she made him stay.)
What I want to know is, why the heck does Logan need to be on the path to some job, anyway? To teach him the value of a dollar? (Believe me, joblessness is a faster teacher.) London isn't a path to a job, it is a job, and Logan can't go into it half-heartedly hoping that his father will eventually cut him loose for not trying now that he's out in the 'real world.'
Besides, Rory is on her way to a dazzling career and a brilliant future. She can easily support Logan (maybe not as richly, but far more happily) and that way, she can have children, too while Logan takes care of them.

Quote
Ah.  Okay, I meant professionally he seems to be happy.  He enjoys his work, he has a purpose.  And, he got his start not by just deciding to be a journalist, but because his dad pushed him into it.  And, if he was like Logan in his youth (they were both in the LDB) he might have been initially as reluctant.  So, he still could assume that once Logan was firmly on the path, that Logan would start liking it.  He might very well be wrong, but based on experience, I could see why he would think so.

I just wish we knew more about who Logan was aside from his problems with his dad and his relationship with Rory.  For one thing, I wish we knew what his major was, if he picked it out himself.

At the risk of sounding New Age, I don't think you can be happy with a full career and an empty home. And I ask, what's more important? Dream job or dream family?

As far as Logan, though, he seems to be whoever you want him to be if he likes you and nothing you want if he doesn't. That sort of psychic mirroring implies a long-suppressed personality that may not even exist anymore. Perhaps, like Lorelai, he will seize on the first job he finds once he's free and turn it into his dream (but much faster without a baby on his hip.)
In any case, I feel certain his dreams will burst into bloom the second he strays out from under his father's shadow. (It's not just good psychology, it's good scriptwriting.)
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« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2006, 03:10:01 pm »


Logan doesn't need a leg up because he's brilliant, talented, witty and convincing. He knows how to make contacts, and he knows how to write a resume. Mitch can't be afraid Logan won't be able to find work. And if Logan doesn't tell his father about his plans with Rory, then either he isn't too serious about them, or he really is afraid of his father. (Rationally, as it turns out. Mitch immediately lowered the boom when his plans were questioned.)

A helping hand never hurts anyone, and even the most brilliant people can use a helping hand, and if you can help, it just seems like something to do.  And, I don't think Logan is scared of his dad.  He just doesn't like him, and they aren't the type to talk about his girlfriend.  And, it's not that Mitchum is scared Logan won't be able to find work.  He's scared that Logan won't ever make the effort to do so.  And, so far, Logan hasn't given him any reason to think differently.

Quote
As far as dreams go, what do you think is more important? Dream job or dream girl? Logan has only one of these if he stays, but neither if he goes. (Except Rory wouldn't be his dream girl if she made him stay.)
What I want to know is, why the heck does Logan need to be on the path to some job, anyway? To teach him the value of a dollar? (Believe me, joblessness is a faster teacher.) London isn't a path to a job, it is a job, and Logan can't go into it half-heartedly hoping that his father will eventually cut him loose for not trying now that he's out in the 'real world.'


Logan doesn't lose Rory by going to London.  He's separated from Rory, and it's hard and sad, but losing her would be them breaking up.  And, a job is not just about learning about a dollar.  It's about doing something with your life.  It's about fulfilling your potential.  Just because your rich doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing something.  And, Logan's life has got to be more than just being Rory's boyfriend.  He's not even a househusband.  I can see taking care of a home as a job (no degeneration meant to housewives) as a responsibility, as something you can work at and be good at on a day to day basis.  And, I think even housewives (I'm using that term because really there are more women who stay at home than men) should also have some purpose or skill or thing to do aside from taking care of the home.  And, it doesn't have to be a paying thing.  But, I don't think Logan can be described as that.  And, Logan has to be more than just a boyfriend.  And, if a job was only about money, than writers and artists and people who have careers but usually don't have a steady income (until lots of time and struggle have passed) wouldn't be doing anything worthwhile, and I don't believe that.  And, London is only for a year.  But, like I said Mitchum could very well think Logan would change his mind once he got used to it (especially if Mitchum had the same attitude as Logan had)

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Besides, Rory is on her way to a dazzling career and a brilliant future. She can easily support Logan (maybe not as richly, but far more happily) and that way, she can have children, too while Logan takes care of them.

But, Logan shouldn't just plan on that.  Besides, what if they don't have kids?  What if they don't get married?  What if they break up?  This isn't all about Rory, his existence shouldn't be all about Rory, and this problem has probably been going on way before Rory.  Why shouldn't Logan have a dazzling future of his own? 

If Logan wanted to do something and Mitchum was blocking him from it, I'd say he was wrong.  Logan's not doing that.  But, not letting Logan sit around, or jump off cliffs, or thing like that, just because Logan has money, isn't the way to help a person be a fulfilled and contributing human being.  Maybe making him do a job he hasn't shown interest in isn't the best way to go (but I'd still like to see what he would do if Logan showed an interest in something else) but to me, it's a heck of a lot better than rich parents just setting up a trust fund and telling there kids to go party because the cash flow won't run out.



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At the risk of sounding New Age, I don't think you can be happy with a full career and an empty home. And I ask, what's more important? Dream job or dream family?

I think it depends on the person.  Some people don't want a family.  But, in the area of his job, Mitchum seems satisfied.  I just mean he enjoys his work.  And, based on his own experience, especially if he started as reluctantly when he was young, he has every reason to think that once Logan gives it a shot, he'll come to enjoy it as well.

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« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2006, 04:00:26 pm »

A helping hand never hurts anyone, and even the most brilliant people can use a helping hand, and if you can help, it just seems like something to do.  And, I don't think Logan is scared of his dad.  He just doesn't like him, and they aren't the type to talk about his girlfriend.  And, it's not that Mitchum is scared Logan won't be able to find work.  He's scared that Logan won't ever make the effort to do so.  And, so far, Logan hasn't given him any reason to think differently.

He isn't giving Logan a hand, he's shoving it down his throat. And if Logan isn't scared of his dad, why didn't he tell him about Asia? (Not about Rory, but a 'hey, I can't start the new job this Summer, I promise it's not an LDB thing.') He may be scared Logan will never do anything with his life, but Logan can (and will) figure that out for himself. This London job just gives him an opportunity to keep drifting.

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Logan doesn't lose Rory by going to London.  He's separated from Rory, and it's hard and sad, but losing her would be them breaking up.  And, a job is not just about learning about a dollar.  It's about doing something with your life.  It's about fulfilling your potential.  Just because your rich doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing something.  And, Logan's life has got to be more than just being Rory's boyfriend.  He's not even a househusband.  I can see taking care of a home as a job (no degeneration meant to housewives) as a responsibility, as something you can work at and be good at on a day to day basis.  And, I think even housewives (I'm using that term because really there are more women who stay at home than men) should also have some purpose or skill or thing to do aside from taking care of the home.  And, it doesn't have to be a paying thing.  But, I don't think Logan can be described as that.  And, Logan has to be more than just a boyfriend.  And, if a job was only about money, than writers and artists and people who have careers but usually don't have a steady income (until lots of time and struggle have passed) wouldn't be doing anything worthwhile, and I don't believe that.  And, London is only for a year.  But, like I said Mitchum could very well think Logan would change his mind once he got used to it (especially if Mitchum had the same attitude as Logan had)

I disagree. Logan and Rory may not be broken up, but this will affect their relationship. They sleep in the same bed, work in the same place and share a lot of friends. Logan is going from being closely in tune with Rory to not even seeing her face every day, and he's going to suffer if he loves her. He is losing her in that sense, even though she will be waiting when (if) he comes back.
And you can do something with your life without a job. Even with a job that isn't the center of your attention. Logan loves life and people and he gets along with anybody he chooses to. I don't think his dreams will be about landing a major account. (Perhaps, like Jason, he will build a dream out of getting revenge on his father.)
I do agree that, Like Lorelai, he will not be ready to get married until he has filled his life with something he loves, but until he gives up trying to make his father happy, he will never find that thing. Once he's done that, once he knows what all is out there, he may very well settle on being the best househusband/stay-at-home father he can. Knowing Logan, it would rival the work of Mary Poppins.
But come on, we both know that if Logan doesn't warm up after a year in London, Mitch will send him on to the 'next step' after that.

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But, Logan shouldn't just plan on that.  Besides, what if they don't have kids?  What if they don't get married?  What if they break up?  This isn't all about Rory, his existence shouldn't be all about Rory, and this problem has probably been going on way before Rory.  Why shouldn't Logan have a dazzling future of his own? 

You said it yourself: he doesn't want one. No amout of pushing or goading or begging by his father will make him want one, and for better or worse, the only way he's ever going to have one is if he finds it on his own. If Rory will still have him under those conditions, why not marry her, and live his life sharing his gifts with only the people closest to him?

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If Logan wanted to do something and Mitchum was blocking him from it, I'd say he was wrong.  Logan's not doing that.  But, not letting Logan sit around, or jump off cliffs, or thing like that, just because Logan has money, isn't the way to help a person be a fulfilled and contributing human being.  Maybe making him do a job he hasn't shown interest in isn't the best way to go (but I'd still like to see what he would do if Logan showed an interest in something else) but to me, it's a heck of a lot better than rich parents just setting up a trust fund and telling there kids to go party because the cash flow won't run out.

Logan may have wasted a lot of time, but Mitch has blocked him from seeing what's out there. He feels that there's only one door open to him, and that he's being shoved through it (to quote him.) Until he tries everything and is really free to see what the world has to offer him, he can't choose effectively for himself. Taking a little time away from the LDB is a good first step, but he could do that in Asia with his good influence charm by his side just as easily. In London, he will be alone, depressed, and trapped in a situation he swore up one side and down the other that he would find a way out of. He may not be very open to possibilities.

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I think it depends on the person.  Some people don't want a family.  But, in the area of his job, Mitchum seems satisfied.  I just mean he enjoys his work.  And, based on his own experience, especially if he started as reluctantly when he was young, he has every reason to think that once Logan gives it a shot, he'll come to enjoy it as well.

And without another influence, Logan will be equally satisfied with his job and equally unhappy with his home life. Mitch may have the best of intentions, but if Logan is committed to a Gilmore Girl, he can never follow a path that would put his family in front of the people in it.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2006, 04:03:14 pm by lessa » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2006, 05:50:57 pm »



He isn't giving Logan a hand, he's shoving it down his throat. And if Logan isn't scared of his dad, why didn't he tell him about Asia? (Not about Rory, but a 'hey, I can't start the new job this Summer, I promise it's not an LDB thing.') He may be scared Logan will never do anything with his life, but Logan can (and will) figure that out for himself. This London job just gives him an opportunity to keep drifting.

Why does fear have to be his motivator?  Why can't it just be that he doesn't share his life with his dad?  That he figures Mitchum doesn't feel a romantic pleasure trip trumps work, and isn't going to say, "Well, my boy, you want to be with your girlfriend, so forget about the job."  But, not because he's afraid, because he's resigned.  I know there are certain things I can't change people's minds about (same goes with me) so why would I bother?  But, that doesn't mean I'm scared of them.  And, right now, Mitchum has no sign from Logan that he will do anything else but be a dillatante.  Working in London, is doing something with his life.  I just can't agree that Mitchum should just sit there and be something of a male Paris Hilton (personal relationships excluded) and just assume one day sometime he'll get his act together.

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You said it yourself: he doesn't want one. No amout of pushing or goading or begging by his father will make him want one, and for better or worse, the only way he's ever going to have one is if he finds it on his own. If Rory will still have him under those conditions, why not marry her, and live his life sharing his gifts with only the people closest to him?

Sometimes, you can't always do what you want.  Not about marrying Rory, but people work jobs they don't like all the time.  And, it's not ideal, it's not the best thing in the world, but whose life is perfect anyway?  They survive.  They're even happy.  Not everything in your life has to be working out for you to be happy.  But, Logan could be doing volunteer work or painting or gardening or something.  It doesn't necessarily have to be a nine to five job.  Although, I personally think he should work he should experience work, because I don't think anyone should just count on someone else being able to take care of you.  You may not choose to work for a time, but you should have the experience.  It's what people do. 


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And without another influence, Logan will be equally satisfied with his job and equally unhappy with his home life. Mitch may have the best of intentions, but if Logan is committed to a Gilmore Girl, he can never follow a path that would put his family in front of the people in it.

I disagree.  There's no reason why his professional life can't follow Mitchum's path (it doesn't have to) and his personal life take a detour.  Rory isn't Shira. Logan isn't Mitchum.  By those very facts, the odds that their lives will be different is pretty good.  If Logan discovers that he absolutely loves the business side of journalism, he could work in Hartford or somewhere else and Rory could be with him reporting or doing whatever, and still be in love and together? 

The thing is, Logan did spend a year off doing what he wanted.  He could have found some purpose in his life then, but all he did was sink a yacht. 

I just don't agree that it's enough for him to be boyfriend extraordinare.  If he has all this talent and charm it's wasteful for him to not to do anything with it.  And, maybe having such a heavy hand isn't the right way to go, but not doing anything, when all evidence suggests that it'll just give him free reign to be continue being king of the sloths (all his time and growth with Rory didn't change that) is a much worse tactic, in my opinion.
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« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2006, 09:05:49 pm »

Why does fear have to be his motivator?  Why can't it just be that he doesn't share his life with his dad?  That he figures Mitchum doesn't feel a romantic pleasure trip trumps work, and isn't going to say, "Well, my boy, you want to be with your girlfriend, so forget about the job."  But, not because he's afraid, because he's resigned.  I know there are certain things I can't change people's minds about (same goes with me) so why would I bother?  But, that doesn't mean I'm scared of them.  And, right now, Mitchum has no sign from Logan that he will do anything else but be a dillatante.  Working in London, is doing something with his life.  I just can't agree that Mitchum should just sit there and be something of a male Paris Hilton (personal relationships excluded) and just assume one day sometime he'll get his act together.

It doesn't matter if fear was his motivator. The alternative is that he decided early on he was spending Valentine's Day with his girlfriend (likely considering the amount of planning that went into it) and he didn't tell his father because he knew he couldn't make it stick to his face. He lied to his father, fully aware of the consequences. He may have told himself it was for Rory, but she would have understood if he'd cancelled and told her the truth. I think deep down, he's started to question that his father gets to decide how he spends any of his time, let alone the next year of his life. I'm hoping his progressive rebellion since he met Rory is a sign of that.

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Sometimes, you can't always do what you want.  Not about marrying Rory, but people work jobs they don't like all the time.  And, it's not ideal, it's not the best thing in the world, but whose life is perfect anyway?  They survive.  They're even happy.  Not everything in your life has to be working out for you to be happy.  But, Logan could be doing volunteer work or painting or gardening or something.  It doesn't necessarily have to be a nine to five job.  Although, I personally think he should work he should experience work, because I don't think anyone should just count on someone else being able to take care of you.  You may not choose to work for a time, but you should have the experience.  It's what people do. 

These aren't real people. They'll eventually get whatever life they deserve. I know he isn't much on the inside yet, but Logan deserves better than to be tossed into the daily grind far from home immediately after he finishes the daily grind of graduating from Yale. Be that as it may, Rory and Logan were getting just a bit too steady, even though they had a long way to go. (A near-death experience may make a fight about unfaithfulness seem small, but it doesn't make it go away.)




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I disagree.  There's no reason why his professional life can't follow Mitchum's path (it doesn't have to) and his personal life take a detour.  Rory isn't Shira. Logan isn't Mitchum.  By those very facts, the odds that their lives will be different is pretty good.  If Logan discovers that he absolutely loves the business side of journalism, he could work in Hartford or somewhere else and Rory could be with him reporting or doing whatever, and still be in love and together? 

Sure there is. Mitch works long hours and he notices others who do. He deals ruthlessly with his partners, making it difficult for him to be friends with professional associates. He separates people by undefinable standards and consistently rewards raw capability over character and dedication. This makes him incredibly successful, but it's a part of who he is that can't be removed in his more intimate or personal interactions.
Mitch doesn't care who Logan dates the way Lorelai cares about who Rory dates. Maybe because his personal life is such a mess that he knows he has no useful advice to give. But that doesn't mean Logan doesn't need advice, and considering his mistakes, I kind of wonder who he does ask seriously about that kind of thing. Probably his exes. Cheesy
I think following Logan around would interfere with Rory's current plans. I wonder if Shira gave up her 'lower class' career to follow Mitchum?

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The thing is, Logan did spend a year off doing what he wanted.  He could have found some purpose in his life then, but all he did was sink a yacht. 

Sinking a yacht isn't nothing. How else could he be ready, willing and able when his girlfriend needed to steal a yacht? Like Lunk, he's seen enough trouble to keep a level head in almost any crisis. I picture Lorelai's bf as more of a recreational fishing boat theif in his reckless youth. But I've digressed.

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I just don't agree that it's enough for him to be boyfriend extraordinare.  If he has all this talent and charm it's wasteful for him to not to do anything with it.  And, maybe having such a heavy hand isn't the right way to go, but not doing anything, when all evidence suggests that it'll just give him free reign to be continue being king of the sloths (all his time and growth with Rory didn't change that) is a much worse tactic, in my opinion.

Wasteful to whom? If he has no dreams to apply himself to, it's all wasted for him. I still think he secretly dreams of making his father happy. He always sounds so nonchalant when he's describing what a disappointment he is, but he never strays far enough from the straight and narrow to violate 'the fine print on the family crest.' Graduating Yale isn't easy for a true slacker, but he can't be part of the family legacy if he doesn't do it. What drives his late-night study sessions during finals week?
Logan doesn't want to let his family down, he just doesn't think he's the son his father wanted. He hankers after life and people and doing things on the spur of the moment. He takes life as it comes relying on wit and energy to deal with the emergencies that life brings. The only way to avoid being suffocated by his father's hopes for him is to ignore them until he has to deal with them, then go back to ignoring them afterwards, by whatever means necessary. Maybe it's time for Mitch to openly admit he'd love Logan no matter what he did.
And Mitch doesn't have to stand back and do nothing just because he kicks his son off the treadmill. Heck, Mitch should start him at the bottom rung meeting correspondents and cameramen instead of executives and VIP. I bet he could talk his way up faster than he could get used to having a corner office handed to him with strings attached.
But without that flexibility, or anything about it that recognized Logan's particular talents, it seems more like a 'So Long to Daisy Miller' situation, (As Rory herself was in when she couldn't control herself around her married boyfriend.) It seemed like an excuse to get him out of the country during a delicate stage of his life and give him a chance to step back and evaluate all his personal relationships and how they fit into his life. (In which case, just this once, Huntzberger policy is directed at her, and anyone else Logan could become irrationally attached to.)
As a career move, the trip to London is meaningless (I'd wondered why the writers never fleshed it out) but as a bit of personal space for Logan to clear his head and think alone (imho) it shouldn't last five episodes.
Perhaps realizing this, Rory has decided her relationship with Logan is stronger than any test to which Mitch might put it. But if his cooling-off period does run too long, Rory may take it as an indication that he is happy growing into his father's dream and 'give him his freedom' to avoid discouraging him. Maybe Mitch will suggest it.
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