2.11 - Secrets and Loans

[lessa]

Heh, I like this episode for the Real vs. Reel component. I mean, the current housing crisis sort of implies that many homeowners were in exactly her position, and many predatory bankers would have been only too happy to misreport her income and give her a third mortgage. They could easily have thought they were doing her a favor by turning her down. But that would have been more of a sleeper plot for later when her interest rate exploded and she was really desperate. Makes me hope Amy is writing now, if anyone could capture the problem from Joe Poorperson's POV, it's ASP.

Hey, would Lorelai be comfortable letting Luke sink a lot of money on her mortgage if they were/were almost married? There's a law against putting up the Inn as collateral on her house, I think it would make a good plot. Or retake of an old plot, whatever.

[bingbong]

I'm not a big fan of this episode, but it's refreshing to see L & R have a genuine argument once in a while, so long as it does not result in Rory dropping out of Yale and moving in with her grandparents.

I can't bring myself to excuse Rory for disobeying Lorelai. Rory knows the emotional baggage Lorelai carries about ol' Em. She could have tried pressing the point further to Lorelai in private.

Bu-u-u-u-t i think there are extenuating circumstances on Rory's behalf. The way Lorelai's behavior was swinging back and forth between child and parent in this episode, i almost understand if Rory decided she knows best. Lorelai is accustomed to leaning on Rory, and she is entitled to get panicky, but Rory cannot always be expected to march lock-step beside her. Rory over-stepped her boundaries by blabbing to Emily, but Lorelai did her best to blur those boundaries. It's shaky ground when a mom vents everything onto her daughter, treats her almost like an equal partner, pays little mind to the fear she might be instilling into her, and then expects the girl to stand quietly on the side while she fumbles for a solution. Maybe when the daughter is a child, but Rory's at that teenage in-between zone and she is a highly intelligent, solution-oriented over-achiever. Lorelai boasted her track record as a Parental Provider at the end, but perhaps she should have made that worthy speech when Rory began pushing her Emily solution. By the time Friday Night Dinner rolled around, despite Lorelai's objection to the Emily solution, Rory was in her own mindset. As i said, i don't excuse it, but i can understand why the problem arose. Hey, Rory was the victim of Lorelai's middle-of-the-night termite terror and witness to Lorelai's financial panic: Time to take charge with a Rory Solution! She's got great test scores, Paris is (momentarily) under her thumb and she doesn't walk around with pom-poms: Rory knows best! Perhaps if Lorelai installed two buttons on Rory's forehead, one saying Parent and the other saying Child, she could press each as needed and avoid any confusion about Rory's role. 

I enjoy seeing Lane dealing with questions of self-identity, where to fit in and the effect those struggles can have on a friendship. Those seem like perfectly normal issues for a teenager in high school. Lane was bold in searching for something to feel part of, and why not something unexpected such as cheerleading? She didn't find her calling until she discovered the drums and Hep Alien, but she was searching. Unlike Rory, she doesn't know exactly what she wants to do with her life or if she will even be allowed to make her own decisions along the way. Rory comes across as more aloof and above it all (shades of Richard), but Lane wants to be part of the action. Rory can keep a cool distance from the Chilton crowd and go home to a boyfriend and an understanding mom/sister/best friend. Lane does not have that flexibility in her life. Not that i fault Rory for her initial reaction. She was perplexed and a bit judgmental at the sudden sight of Lane dressed as a cheerleader, but i think Lane would have had the same reaction if it was reversed. Rory & Lane have always mocked cheerleaders, and now Lane is hanging with them. They are attending different schools in different towns and it makes sense that they would each explore separate interests. But for all these differences, they are kindred spirits and by the end of the episode their friendship was if anything even stronger.

[SIDNEY]

Bu-u-u-u-t i think there are extenuating circumstances on Rory's behalf. The way Lorelai's behavior was swinging back and forth between child and parent in this episode...

That's a great point! Lorelai is so confusing the way she shifts between a childish act and a parental one. She shows Rory how much she can't handle the situation and how desperate she is, making Rory feels so responsible to figure a solution. Making Rory feels so equal with her but then when Rory takes a step to do something, Lorelai gets so angry. Rory didn't ask a stranger or a friend to help. She asked a close relative, her grandmother. I don't really think she was so wrong to do that because the only reason Lorelai didn't ask for her help is because of her pride, nothing more. If the matter involved Lorelai alone then that's ok but it also involved Rory and she had to do something reasonable.

She was perplexed and a bit judgmental at the sudden sight of Lane dressed as a cheerleader but i think Lane would have had the same reaction if it was reversed. Rory & Lane have always mocked cheerleaders, and now Lane is hanging with them.

Wow, I would love it more if Rory was the cheerleader. I can't really picture her like one. It would have been a great storyline!   

[bingbong]

^ ^  Ha, you took the Rory Defense further than i would have. Despite everything else i wrote, i can't get past the fact that Rory went to Emily, because Emily is not simply a grandmother, Emily is Emily and Rory normally knows the implications for her mom/sister/best friend.

Lorelai likes to say she is stubborn but Rory is her mother's daughter. During their make-up scene, Rory was still attempting to justify what she did even after she apologized. Lorelai had to cut her off. I also noticed that Lorelai did not apologize for anything, which i can understand because in that moment she needed to reassert her parental authority. I really liked the way the whole story line played out, right down to the resolution. When i compare it to their conflict over Rory's Yale drop-out, it is much better written.

[SIDNEY]

^ ^ I don't think Rory really understood the issues between Lorelai and Emily until late seasons. She only knew the warm and fuzzy grandparents! So i don't think it was wrong for her to ask help from her "loving" grandmother.

Stubbornness is a gene passed on from one Gilmore Girls to another. Emily to Lorelai to Rory! It's part of what makes the Gilmore Girls who they are!  I think if people think they did the right thing then they shouldn't apologize, so i think neither Lorelai or Rory needed to say sorry. Even if they said it they wouldn't mean it.

I liked that the Yale drop out made Rory move in with her Grandparents. That was a great storyline. But also the communication with L & R, the core of their relationship wasn't there and that what made it confusing because there was not a good-enough reason for it.

[lessa]

Here's another angle: she just lost Max. Lorelai brutally rebuffed her offer of a hand to hold so she wouldn't be so scared of a jump with him, and now Rory's concerned that what's best for Lorelai isn't always what's best for both of them. She wanted Max in their lives, and she didn't care that it "wasn't right" for her mom. Same goes for fuzzy Emily and Richard. Rory is just beginning to think Lorelai is wrong to keep her parents out of her life, and with Max fresh in her mind, she might have been genuinely afraid that Lorelai would rather lose the house on her own than accept help with a few strings attached. She's sixteen, it's too old to not say your piece in a family crisis, but not old enough to call your mom a liar when she says everything will be fine. Tough year.

Lane's metamorphosis was probably hard on her, too. I mean, who wants to lose her house and find out that her best friend was only making fun of cheerleaders because she wanted her to in the same week?

I actually thought it was part of the ongoing plot with Jess. I mean, Rory and Lane are as different as Rory and Dean, in this episode we get to see why none of what Jess said about her boyfriend mismatch applies to her bff. When Rory drifts out, Dean gets jealous and demands attention. Lane sulked for a while, then joined a club she couldn't join with Rory to occupy her time until Rory came around. Sure, she was hurt, but she told Rory that she felt let out and didn't fit with her anymore, then left it with her, instead of demonizing the rest of Rory's life and making her choose.

Sigh, I guess that's one of the differences between a best friend and a boyfriend. And nary the twain shall meet at age sixteen.

[honkifuluvGG]

I agree with those previous posts that suggest Rory over-stepped the mark in revealing to Emily the situation that Lorelai and her found themselves in.  Even in this early stage of the series Lorelai had made it abundantly clear where she stood in this debate.  I mean she left home at 16, pregnant, single and destitute to make it on her own.  If that doesn't give you a clue of where she stands, I don't think much will.  And I do understand that Rory may have been basing her decision on some of Lorelai's more immature moments where she didn't exactly shine as the parent out of the two of them, but Lorelai's protests at the table should have been enough of an indication that she need to zip it, immediately.  And I also agree Jim, that if she had perhaps discussed with Rory, as she does everything else, where she really was at on the whole matter, then perhaps ROry may have been more at ease.  Her speech about always providing for and having a roof over their heads might have been handier earlier on in the situation.

The Java Junkie in me also really adores their moment in this episode also.  I love that Luke so completely gets Lorelai enough to know that he had to dodge the whole "I'm lending you the money" part of the conversation until it was absolutely forced out of him.  That he knew she would not be able to accept it on principal.  But that he tried (so terribly) was just adorable.

I also love that we get to see the best friend moments between Sookie and Lorelai.  You really get an understanding of how close they are when you know that they can traipse over there at midnight and still be welcomed with opened arms (and picture pjs).

Other highlights were the classic line from Lorelai "No, verbal is my thing", and the mental image I get of Luke dressed as Dr Frank'n'furter.

[lessa]

Heh, I don't know if Rory over-stepped or not. I mean, if Luke actually sees enough of a problem to butt in like that, it must be pretty bad. Besides, she's sixteen, that "mom say, daughter do" has long since worn off, if it ever even applied to them in the first place.

Anyway, right or wrong, I can see why Lorelai put her foot down. Emily isn't just a helpful outsider, she's a force of nature. A manipulative one. Once she was involved, there was no getting her out of it, and that would have happened every single time Rory went behind Lorelai's back with her hand out.

Getting Emily involved makes it a lot harder to trump with the mom card, and that's an elbow-jog she just doesn't need. It's a matter of practicality. That is, it must have been, since it turned out Lorelai had no other option, anyway.

[honkifuluvGG]

Heh, I don't know if Rory over-stepped or not. I mean, if Luke actually sees enough of a problem to butt in like that, it must be pretty bad. Besides, she's sixteen, that "mom say, daughter do" has long since worn off, if it ever even applied to them in the first place.

I do agree lessa that the lines of mother-daughter are always a little blurred with Lorelai and Rory, and that given Rory's age this may not have even been a factor in her 'outspoken-ness', but still in a more traditional sense I guess I would never see this as an issue that my child should have to deal with.  And I'm thinking that's where Lorelai was coming from also.  And I don't entirely blame Rory for wanting to find a solution, or wanting to help in assuring that she continues to have a roof over her head.  I just think that Lorelai's actions/comments at the dinner table should have been enough for Rory to know that she was going against Lorelai's wishes and should have stopped.

And as for the Luke part of the quote above, I don't think he was butting in.  I always took it as Lorelai having asked him there to confirm Kirk's assessment of the situation.  As Lorelai taking one last ditch effort to perhaps find out that she wasn't in as dire a situation as first thought.

[lessa]

By butt in, I meant the little no-interest loan he arranged for her. Not that he isn't invested in repairing her house or keeping a roof over Rory, just that he tried to manipulate her into it for her own good. When Luke Danes is trying to shove money down your throat, you know you're looking poor.

And, yeah, I get she knew darn well she wasn't obeying Lorelai's wishes, but I also get she doesn't see why she should. She didn't want to lose her house the way she lost Max over Lorelai's failure to anticipate the future. Giving up the crap shack and moving back into the Indy constitutes keeping a roof over her head and feeding her, remember?

At the risk of spouting "she's only human," I have to say the brattiest thing she did was taking it to Gramma instead of offering to drop out of Chilton and get a job.

[wmushell]

Great discussion everyone - in fact so much so that I even went back to the Luke scene and rewatched it keeping everyone's comments in mind.  After doing so, I definitely think that Luke is not inappropriately butting in.  He puts it out there as a possibility (in case she's truly desperate) in an extremely gentle manner.  The minute she was on to him - which took no time at all - and refused, he immediately backed off.  No arguments, no discussion.  There was definitely no shoving down her throat at all.  He was being a really good friend by offering assistance, and then understanding when she didn't accept.

I'm not sure a comparison between Lorelai not marrying Max and possibly losing her house really works here.  While Lorelai may have difficulty making up her mind on the men in her life, she was never shown to be fiscailly irresponsible.  These are very different characteristics.  Lorelai has done all in her power to make sure Rory had all that she needed and has proven to be a hard worker through and through working up the ranks to management.  I really love how she very forcefully points out to Rory that she has never gone without.  I do very much think Rory was out of line in filling Emily in.  Rory has known from the pilot when she heard Emily and Lorelai arguing about the money for Chilton that Lorelai's pride is very much on the line when it comes to her parents - she doesn't want to rely on them unless she has no other options (which she did for the Chilton money).  Whether or not she would need to come to them in this instance was not for Rory to decide, just as it wasn't in the pilot.  She understood what it cost her mom in the pilot - I don't buy that she wouldn't get it now.

I love how the town troubadour sings "Be True to Your School."  It cracks me up.

[lessa]

You can't say she's done everything in her power to provide for Rory, she moved out of her cushy house and subject her to baby-in-a-hotel-room conditions (don't even get me started, seriously.) Rory understood that Lorelai could give away her father figure because she wasn't in love, but she won't let Lorelai give away their house just because she doesn't want her parents to have a presence in their home. Even if it is Lorelai's choice and no "buts." Her speech to Rory wasn't about trust, it was an "as long as you live under my roof" spiel.

And I said Luke butting in was uncharacteristic, not inappropriate. The only difference between what he tried to do and what Rory tried to do is that he offered up his own money. I think that's what hit home with Lorelai, that if mister MYOB was trying to force a handout on her, maybe (just maybe) it wasn't a secret she was in over her head.

[wmushell]

You can't say she's done everything in her power to provide for Rory, she moved out of her cushy house and subject her to baby-in-a-hotel-room conditions (don't even get me started, seriously.)

Ahhh, see I disagree with you here.  I believe that by moving out of the Gilmores she was doing something very important to provide for Rory.  A cushy house (particularly that of Emily and Richard's) doesn't necessarily promote the best of environments to raise a child.  The material items are very much secondary - what matters is that Lorelai was in a location with Rory where she was emotionally and spirtually able to become the best person (therefore mother) she could possibly become.  She felt stifled and trapped in the Gilmore house - not conducive to being a great maternal figure.  Richard and Emily were not even quite over the fact that their daughter had gotten pregnant at 16 as the series began - I can't imagine they were in a place to warmly support Lorelai as a teenage mother a year after Rory was born (when she left). 

As far as the conditions of the shed in which Rory and Lorelai first lived, I am not sure that Emily's assessment of it as so terrible is really fair.  What completely strikes me is how Rory remembers her time there - in "Emily in Wonderland" she recalls it as very happy and enjoyed living there.  For me, that is the true judgement - certainly not someone who lacked for anything she needed.  Also, I think Lorelai is allowed this "stepping stone" in life to make her way in the world.  Goodness knows that so many of us live in less than stellar apartments during our late teens and early 20s (I did in college!) so that we may work to what our true goal is - home ownership which Lorelai accomplished.  From what the show informed us of the past, Rory lacked for nothing.  Again, living in a mansion isn't necessarily doing everything in her power to provide for Rory - that is merely a matter of material items.  She is equally responsible for her emotional well-being.  Clearly, Lorelai raised a well-cared for, strong, and eloquent daughter. 

[lessa]

She didn't move out, she ran away into the night with no place to go. And the potting shed? Well, I'm thankful to say you still haven't gotten me started. I'm not going with the assessments of the characters, just my own. (And I've lived in a hotel with a baby.) My assessment is that she took a huge risk to get away from her mother, and she sacrificed a lot of things that could have been good for Rory to maintain the distance. Sure, she made it up to her, but the consensus of the forum and Lorelai seems to be "Rory doesn't need a house."

Maybe that figured into her calculations in defying Lorelai. Don't forget, it was that well-brought-up, eloquent daughter that didn't trust her to do what she had to do to keep the Crap Shack. Would Lorelai have accepted a cosigner for her loan if Rory and Emily hadn't conspired against her dug-in heels? I mean, it's Lorelai, she would have figured something out, but if that something was going to be Emily anyway, putting Rory in her place for anticipating her seems a little harsh. (Especially since the 'something ' might also have been moving.) Was she playing the mom-card or the best-friend-card when she lectured Rory about her betrayal?

Umm, and as well turned-out as Rory is, I don't think there's such a thing as an emotionally well-adjusted Gilmore Girl. Rory's different from the other kids in bad ways, too, ya know.

[thevoid99]

I don't think Rory did anything wrong, she just asked for help from her grandmother.  Though she did disobey Lorelai leading to Lorelai being very angry.  Yet, the Gilmore Girls are stubborn.  Lorelai's pride is what kept things at bay where she was forced to turn to Emily.  That last line at the end of the episode from Emily is hilarious.

I love this episode.  It's classic.  I loved the way it opened to "Que Sera, Sera" and then, termite hole! 

Paris, wanting to know Rory's score.  Even turning to Madeline for help and Rory being too smart to fall for anything Paris is trying to do.

I don't like cheerleaders yet cheerleaders dancing to Madness' "One Step Beyond".  I'll take.  Just as long they don't dance to crappy music.  Jackson's pajamas.  Ha-ha!!!