3.19 - Keg! Max!

[I LUV JESS~!!]

Dean has always had jealousy issues, with Tristan and Jess. I honestly don't like that, if a guy is always jealous then he is insecure with himself. I do agree with you though Ashley, I just think Dean blew it way out of proportion.

[logansLover]

Ok so with the way out of proportion thing, I agree. dean alwayd did have those issues, even when he wasn't dating her. I think he had a hard time letting go. And then  critisizeing rory for telling him it was too early too get married, and telling her she's just jelious (SP) because jess treats her like dirt was so far gone. I really do think he has mental problems

[Imy]

dean did blow it way out of proportion and even before this episode in the 'That'll do Pig' and in 'Deep Fried Korean Thanksgiving' he was a real jerk to Jess and yeah Jess wasn't very friendly to Dean either. and the fact that jess was having a bad week and that everyone in stars hollow doesn't excuse his supposed trying to sleep with rory it still says that everyone has bad days and everyone makes mistakes and as brenda said cut him some slack no ever cuts jess any slack and that's way he was so screwed up!
LogansLover~ yeah Dean does have mental problems and rory wasn't jealous of Lindsay she just thought that dean was being an idiot! and Jess did not treat Rory like dirt! I think that Dean is just as or maybe even more screwed up that Jess was!
Brenda~ Dean was insecure he just really needed to let go of rory and move on cos rory moved on when Jess moved in!
to Sweets i think that yeah you might want your ex to ask you what's wrong but its still none of his business and Rory didn't want Dean to say anything she just wanted to go home!
I think that in most of series one dean was fine until it came to Tristan and Dean should have known that Tristan didn't stand a chance with Rory so Dean should have just dropped it but he didn't and he should have dropped it with Jess too cos Dean didn't own Rory. And yeah dean was sweet and got along with Lorelai but he also had big issues!

[chloe]

I am a MAJOR Jess and Rory fan but honestly Jess was a jerk in this epidode and deserved the punch from Dean. He shudn't have taken his issues out on Rory. 

Jess finally Reaps what he has sown in this episode.

So true! And you were completely right about the Dean thing also!

I am a million percent sure that if it was Logan who acted the way Jess did then people would hate him for it, but because they love Jess they let it go.   

[Aimmers514]

that party...I love Kyle...he was great with the Hummels.  That was funny.

I loved how Hep Alien played.  And how Rory introduced ... very not normal but a very Rory intro...

and I also liked how she looked...I thought she looked really pretty there.


And interesting stuff with Max, how he avoided with Lorelai.  I was glad that storyline was over....

[GrimRX]

I really don't think he was purposefully trying to sleep with her these kind of things just happen and he if he was doing it then it wasn't cos had a bad night.

Watch that part again girly: Rory says no, and makes motions to stop him a couple of times even BEFORE his hand reaches down to her belt.  It's only After that, after he grabs and tries to undo her belt that she pushes him off.

So he wasn't trying to sleep with her because it was him having a bad night?  Yet it "just kinda happened"?  If things "just kinda happen" it's usually because of the circumstances that take PLACE when it "just kinda happens."  But you're telling me that although it "just kinda happens" that it had nothing to do with his bad mood.  Ok, well what about AFTER she pushes him off.  Is that something that "just kinda happens" too? or Is THAT anger because of his bad mood?   And if it IS because of his bad mood, then I gotta say, that still makes him look no better.  Reason: Because a male who takes his anger out on his girlfriend, even though she has no bloody clue of WHY he's so angry because he WON'T tell her, is not much of a man at all.

oh yeah and what exactly has jess sown?

Resentment from Dean, Anger from the Town, flunking out of highschool.  These are all things that he's sown, and in this episode, he reaps it.

I still say that dean had no right doing that he didn't even no what happened he assumed and stuck his nose in where it wasn't wanted rory would have walked right past dean and run out but he stopped her probably just cos he wanted to pound jess cos dean is a violent, angry jerk.

Dean had no idea what happened when he stopped her.  All he KNEW was that she was crying.  Then he looks up and sees that she's run crying from a bedroom.  Then he sees Jess emerge.  Then, Jess acts like a moron.  You know what?  If Jess had said something like "I'm sorry" or anything OTHER than "figures" that whole fight would have probably been avoided.  But Dean was RIGHT: Jess WAS the reason that she was crying, that Jess HAD done something pretty stupid to MAKE her cry.

I ask you one more time:  Someone that you care about, someone who is your friend comes running down the staires crying: Do you at least ASK them what's wrong?  Or do you let your friend run out crying into the streets with no help at all?  Because at that point, Dean wasn't trying to get with Rory, for that point at least, he was satisfied with his girlfriend.

He did what any male friend would do.  But if you would just like one of your friends run out on to the streets crying... well. *shrug*

and you know what everyone makes mistakes atleast rory and jess were together i mean rory slept with dean when he was married!

Yes, and you don't see me celebrating that all over the board now do you?  Not like you Jess lovers when Rory and Jess had their first kiss.  Yes, I thought that the first scene in Season 5 with them in bed was very very cute and it did fill my heart with Joy.  HOWEVER, I also knew that it was WRONG, and because it was wrong, I can never fully enjoy that scene.  Now WHERE could Rory have found out it was ok to cheat with no consiquences?  Oh yeah, when she Kissed Jess that first time.

and once again jess didn't ask for her to come up there she went up without his invitation he wasn't encouraging anything.

She's his girlfriend.  She cares about him.  All she knows is that he's in a crappy mood and she would like to make him feel better.  If he had just MAYBE, for once, opened up to her, the whole fight could have been avoided.

and you know what jess ahd a right to say 'figures' cos you know what it did figure dean shouldn't have encouraged rory crying in his arms and she wasn't going to anyway.

She wasn't Crying in his arms.  They weren't really even touching.  From what I can remember, he was barely touching her arm with his finger tips.  Encouraging to cry in his arms?  Or not being an insensitive bastard by leting her run by him, crying.

and Jess didn't start the fight dean did cos like i said he's a violent and angry jerk! just like he started the fight with tristan.

You're wrong.  The moment Jess went after Rory, Jess started a fight with Dean.  As for Tristan:  Excuse me?  Dean's at a dance with Rory and out from the blue, Tristan comes up to him and starts in with an agressive stand and agressive tone.  But for all of that, Dean doesn't wanna fight.  He walks away when he could have KILLED Tristan.  As well, who was it that first took a swing at the other?  Oh yeah, it was Jess when Dean pulled him off that other guy.

[GrimRX]

So, by having a bad night, he was justified in doing that to Rory? Gee, so when I'm having a really bad night, and won't tell my girlfriend why, and when she tries to comfort me I try and get into her pants.... can I hit her too? 

What do you mean "can I hit her too?"? What does that have to do with anything? Well to answer your question, that's really your choice. Anyway, I'm not saying Jess was justified in what he did, I'm just saying cut him some slack. He was failing out of school and his dad just popped into his life after seventeen years, he had a lot on his mind. Though, Jess should have told Rory what he was going through, that was a bad decision on his end. I think if Jess would have confided in Rory, it would have prevented the break up.

Well, you're saying that Him having a bad night is an excuse for him to do what he did.  Well, how far does that excuse go?  Had she kept at him to try and reveal what the hell was going on, and he had hit her, because he was "having a bad night" would that have been a good excuse?  Having a "bad night" does not give you the excuse to treat ANYBODY like crap, especially not your girlfriend.  His failing out of school was due to his arrogance, and his "rebel" attitude, nobody else's fault but his. His dad poping out from out of no where?  Ok, not his fault.  But you know what solves things like this?  Is it shutting down and being all moody before trying to force your girlfriend to have sex? (And make no bones about it, had she been less forceful in her rejection of that, had she gone down the path of "oh, maybe this might make his mood better" that some girlfriends take even if they really DON'T wanna have sex at that point, they would have had sex.)  No, it's opening up to your girlfriend who obviously loves you, who chose you over another man.

But if you understand that, then why don't you understand that if I see a girl that I still care tremendously about, no matter what our history, running down the stairs, away from a bedroom, CRYING, and then the obvious source of the crying being that damn callous (cause the "figures" was a pretty damn callous thing to say) I would also be quite hostile.  Combine it with the heartache that the boy caused me... yeah, biatch is going down.

Why I don't understand? I was brought up not to get myself in someone else's bussiness and in this case, I don't see it as any of Dean's. You say he still tremendously cared for her, I don't think that's the case. I think he was still in love with her despite the fact that she had clearly moved on. As for the "figures", it might have been a callous thing to say, but appropriate as well. Rory has always compared Jess to Dean, no one could measure up to the "perfect" and sweet boyfriend he was. He might have been a sweet boyfriend, yes, but people seem to overlook how controlling and overprotective he was.

-Brenda [/color]

Well now, see, I was brought up to care about my friends, yet I can still understand your point of view (though I may dissagree with it).  I know this may sound alittle weird to people, but try and keep with me here.  People always bring up the whole Dean sleeping with Rory thing that happens later on as an indication that he was obviously still pining for her all through season 3.

That's not always true, and in this case, I don't believe that is IS true.  I think that at some point in Season three, probably some point before starting to go out with Lindsey or some point right after, I think he gave up on trying to get back with Rory.  Though he may have cared about her tremendously, or even still loved her, his attitude seemed to be of one that went "well... she made her choice.  Doesn't mean I have to be NICE to Jess though".  At some point after Dean sees Rory again during "Chicken or Beef" I think the old feelings started to resurfaced (of course, when you're drunk, you say a LOT of things that you may or may not mean).

Whether appropreate or not, it was obviously the WRONG thing to say, as it really only hurt Rory more and it pissed off Dean (which it was clearly designed to do, to get revenge if nothing else).

Well, you know, when you steal someone's girlfriend, having her compare you with him is kinda just-deserts.  While Dean did do some pretty cringe worthy things in Season 2, in the end, he was right.  Jess was after Rory, and Rory liked Jess no matter how much she lied to herself and to him.  No one likes being lied to.  So overprotective?  No, not really.

[GrimRX]

Dean has always had jealousy issues, with Tristan and Jess. I honestly don't like that, if a guy is always jealous then he is insecure with himself. I do agree with you though Ashley, I just think Dean blew it way out of proportion.

Jealousy Issues?  That means that Jess also had Jealousy issues and thus was insecure with himself. 

A guy steals the woman you love and does it in a way that cuases Max pain to you.  Blew it out of proportion?  Well, he didn't stab Jess and throw him into a river so... no.

[GrimRX]

dean did blow it way out of proportion and even before this episode in the 'That'll do Pig' and in 'Deep Fried Korean Thanksgiving' he was a real jerk to Jess and yeah Jess wasn't very friendly to Dean either. and the fact that jess was having a bad week and that everyone in stars hollow doesn't excuse his supposed trying to sleep with rory it still says that everyone has bad days and everyone makes mistakes and as brenda said cut him some slack no ever cuts jess any slack and that's way he was so screwed up!

Oh he got LOTS of slack cut to him.  His mom cut him all sorts of slack (she never brought the boom down on him, but that slack was cause she was flakey).  His problem was that he was cut TOO MUCH slack.  What Jess needed with Dicipline, not more slack.  And hey, don't forget, in "That'll do Pig" Jess went after Dean, approaching him with accusations and insults.  Dean just responded in Kind.  "Supposed"?  Hey, when my hand is reaching for your belt to try and take it off (see the scene again) and you start crying bloody murder, I'll just tell the cops that you're blowing it waaay outta proportion.

LogansLover~ yeah Dean does have mental problems and rory wasn't jealous of Lindsay she just thought that dean was being an idiot! and Jess did not treat Rory like dirt! I think that Dean is just as or maybe even more screwed up that Jess was!

Well, that's not the first time I've heard love being called a mental problem, lol.  And yes, Jess DID treat Rory like dirt: Lieing to her.  Never telling her what was bothering him, Closing her out when something bad happens, then yelling at her when she's all confuzzled.  Then hurting her again when she goes to someone else for some comfort.  Yeah, that's treating someone like dirt.

to Sweets i think that yeah you might want your ex to ask you what's wrong but its still none of his business and Rory didn't want Dean to say anything she just wanted to go home!
I think that in most of series one dean was fine until it came to Tristan and Dean should have known that Tristan didn't stand a chance with Rory so Dean should have just dropped it but he didn't and he should have dropped it with Jess too cos Dean didn't own Rory. And yeah dean was sweet and got along with Lorelai but he also had big issues!

It's his business if you make it his business.  Lets take this one step further.  You see a women on the street that you know that has obviously been beaten by her Boyfriend.  Is it "your business"?  Or should you just walk on?

In season one: Tristan wasn't a big deal to Dean.  Dean only mentions Tristan twice: When Tristy tries to pick a fight with him, and when Tristy follows Rory out with her books.  It's Season Two where we see a bit of Jealous start to creep in.

[xAlisonx]

I love this episode! with the rory && jess-ness! 
and i think its kinda sweet that dean stands up for rory when he thinks jess has done somthing to her. but he shouldnt jump to conclusions i suppose.
but then jess gets in the police car...its sad no he doesnt!! i dont know whats wrong with me!!! when he walks away its sad...=[
lane is so dunny in this episode! i love drunk lane!
x

[chloe]

but then jess gets in the police car...its sad

Jess didn't get into a police car did he??

[Courtney1983]

I just re-watched the episode, (for like the billionth time) and no, I don't see Jess in a police car anywhere. He walks away from the party right when the cops show up, and Rory looks like she's going to go after him, but instead tends to Lane who is throwing up in the bushes.

Okay, I'm ready for tons of criticism for this opinion, but I agree with Brenda. I mean, in a sense. Jess is meant to be a complex character when it comes to his attitude, I think. Because, you realize that with his mother giving him up, his father never being around, and being sent to a town where he is immediately frowned upon has gotta make you bitter. I mean, he's a teenager, and we tend to get bitter over stuff way less traumatic than that. This may seem beside the point when it comes to this episode, but it's really not. I think that when he found that Rory cared for him so much and believed in him, kinda like Luke, he felt he could actually deal with the other crap that had happened to him. When he finds out he isn't graduating, he feels like he failed her. (and Luke, but that comes later on.) So, when he goes to this party he's already super depressed and wants to process everything that's been happening. I think when Rory and him are in the bedroom, he's mostly just looking for comfort and reassurance that she'll still loves him, no matter what happened with school. He's really frustrated and is really just trying to figure things out. Blowing up at her probably wasn't smart, but he was mad and was saying that if she doesnt wanna be with him, she doesnt have to be. (not in those words, but i think thats what he was feeling.) This came out of the blue to her, and she wonders what she did wrong therefore running away. He even mutters when she leaves that it wasn't her fault, and he realizes what he did wrong. He's going to fix it when he sees Rory with Dean and this just compacts with the fact that he's realizing he's not perfect for her, like she thought Dean was and that he's messing everything up and he doesn't have a chance to fix it because she always runs back to Dean. That all together has got to push you over the edge emotionally, and when you have Dean all up in your face for reasons he doesn't even get because he wasn't around at the time, finally getting your punch in at him has gotta be lookin pretty good at that time. So I really don't blame him for everything that happened. Rory looking in would've needed a lot of clarification after this, but if she let him explain later I can't see why she would be that angry. Fighting Dean=bad. The reason for all the hostility= sad. But he has his reasons for always being so angsty.
Later on in season 4 he blows up at Luke telling him to stop helping people because it hurts really bad to let him down in the end. I think this refers to everything that you realize in this episode (he didn't graduate like he promised, he messed up everything with the town and Rory) and he felt like he let the one guy in town that was on his side no matter what down. He loved Luke, you can tell, and it must've been really hard to realize that you hurt the one guy who believed in you.
In the end, I don't think he needed too much slack when it comes from people like Luke, who he made a promise to, but more from Rory, a chance to explain everything before she freaked. Rory shouldn't have stopped with Dean, I mean, she should've realized that would hurt Jess a lot. And she needed to know why he was acting this way to her, not only for his sake but for hers. She could've went on forever wondering what she did wrong, or she could've given him a chance to say whats on his mind. No guarentees he would've opened up, but a chance would've been nice. Luke has the right to blow up in the next episode, but I think this episode held missed opportunities to explain things. Then again, we're looking in from the outside, right?
 

[Gilmore_Luver_08]

I soo totaly agree! i mean,hes just one guy,no matter how many times he tries to hide it,he has feelings too.And his mother didnt care,she through him away to his big brother.He was angry when he first saw Lorelai,I mean,he had just gotten abanded! and to have Lorelai mention all thats great about Luke,hes bond to get mad.No one really likes the guy that basicly agrees to take u away from ur family(at first i mean) and **in my opionion** during keg!max! he relised how much he truly cared-or even loved- rory,when he relised how much it hurt to dissapoint her.He wanted to apoligies,but then he sees her with dean.And as Courtney1983 said,it made him remeber how much Rory thote Dean was perfect,how much the town loved Dean and hated him.How can u be buds with the guy they compare u to,and choose him?I totaly agree,tho.

[Courtney1983]

I'm glad you agree. It took a long time to write that out, and I think I could post opinions that long on every episode thread, but really... it takes a lot out of me. It's just that this episode always frustrated me so it was nice to explain what I thought.

~Cody

[Imy]

Cody~ I completely agree with all of that post earlier. Ok so maybe Jess could have handled it a little better but he was in shock and confused and upset cos he just found out he wasn't graduating from high school -kinda a big deal!

Now maybe this is just me being a total Literati however just as Jess was about to walk away at the end of the episode he looked Rory in the eye and this look told me that he was saying "I'm sorry Rory. I love you." but maybe i'm the only 1 who saw it that way -I'm wierd like that!

Gilmore_Luver_08 ~totally agree too!!!

He was upset cos he thought he had disappointed the one girl who he really loved and who had faith in him