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Episode Discussion => Season 7 => Topic started by: Heidi on May 07, 2007, 03:53:07 pm



Title: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Heidi on May 07, 2007, 03:53:07 pm
Unto the Breach: Richard and Emily throw a party for Rory on the night before graduation, and they perform a song for her. At the party, Lorelai reunites with Christopher for the first time since their breakup; and Logan surprises Rory with a big question that she waits until graduation day to answer. Also, Luke is hurt by something he overhears Lorelai saying regarding him.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: jennifer11334 on May 07, 2007, 05:11:40 pm
Cant wait!!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: gg4evr on May 07, 2007, 06:00:47 pm
Second to the last episode of Gilmore Girls.  I can't believe it's ending soon.  :(




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Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: kristin_coleman on May 07, 2007, 07:14:38 pm
I hope Logan puppose to Rory that would be so cool!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: HungryMuffin on May 07, 2007, 10:31:22 pm
Wow, I wonder what Lorelai will say to Luke. I'm nervous about Logan proposing. I don't know what to think about it. I really can't wait to see it!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lifesSHORTtalkFAST on May 08, 2007, 08:00:41 am
Wow, I wonder what Lorelai will say to Luke. I'm nervous about Logan proposing. I don't know what to think about it. I really can't wait to see it!
I feel the same way.† I really want every thing with Luke and Lorelai to be "smooth" by the end of the series.† I really cant think of what road i want Rory to take, i don't mind Logan but <3 Jess.
Can't wait!
November 5,2000 - May 15,2007


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: ohstennischic on May 08, 2007, 08:11:38 am
i cant wait...although now that i heard i think i want to...i just dont want it to be over...yet!!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lorelaikrazi316 on May 08, 2007, 10:43:30 am
i am really excited to see what happens. but i can definitly wait! it's ending so soon...i can't bear it!!!!!

:'(† Gilmore Girls Gone Forever?!!! NEVER!!! :what:

:hearts: lorelaikrazi

 Gilmore Girls Forever!!! :') [/color]


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: MIZ_CELLANEOUS on May 08, 2007, 12:00:32 pm
Sooooo sad.  Hating this.  Don't wanna see it go.  At least I can take solace in the fact that I get to watch the last 2 eps twice.  I am in the MDT time zone and get 7-8 PM on local channel and 8-9 PM on Canadian TV.  yay for that!  But still........I'm not ready to leave Stars Hollow behind!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: gg4evr on May 08, 2007, 01:37:43 pm
Just 3 1/2 hours until GG comes on here!!! 




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Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lorelaikrazi316 on May 08, 2007, 01:43:17 pm
Just 3 1/2 hours until GG comes on here!!!

Only about 3 left now!!! :'( :)

:hearts: lorelaikrazi

Luke and Lorelai Together Forever!!!
[/font][/size][/color][/glow]


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Devilina07 on May 08, 2007, 01:48:56 pm
The reality of this being the second to last episode is really starting to hit me.  I keep reading articles and seems unbelievable.  Make it a good one tonight.  Please.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: HungryMuffin on May 08, 2007, 02:14:44 pm
Wow, I wonder what Lorelai will say to Luke. I'm nervous about Logan proposing. I don't know what to think about it. I really can't wait to see it!
I feel the same way.  I really want every thing with Luke and Lorelai to be "smooth" by the end of the series.  I really cant think of what road i want Rory to take, i don't mind Logan but <3 Jess.
Can't wait!
November 5,2000 - May 15,2007

Yeah. I've always known that Luke && Lorelai were made for eachother. Same as you, I'm not sure about Rory. So many bad things could come up if she chooses Logan. But, ya never know. I really thought Jess was the one for her. I mean, he did make her go back to Yale. While Logan didn't do anything. Guess we have to see =) Can't wait.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Billie on May 08, 2007, 02:32:43 pm
This is so strange.... I almost can't wait (I'm in Europe so I have to wait until tomorrow noon to watch it via web), but then I wished it would take many, many more days so that the end won't be that near....

I guess I'd even like another stupid hiatus....  :'( :'( :'( :'(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lifesSHORTtalkFAST on May 08, 2007, 02:42:11 pm
Wow, I wonder what Lorelai will say to Luke. I'm nervous about Logan proposing. I don't know what to think about it. I really can't wait to see it!
I feel the same way.† I really want every thing with Luke and Lorelai to be "smooth" by the end of the series.† I really cant think of what road i want Rory to take, i don't mind Logan but <3 Jess.
Can't wait!
November 5,2000 - May 15,2007

Yeah. I've always known that Luke && Lorelai were made for eachother. Same as you, I'm not sure about Rory. So many bad things could come up if she chooses Logan. But, ya never know. I really thought Jess was the one for her. I mean, he did make her go back to Yale. While Logan didn't do anything. Guess we have to see =) Can't wait.
Amen sister i support you 100%!
November 5,2000 - May 15,2007


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: JavaJunkiee on May 08, 2007, 03:00:14 pm
It's the last Tuesday before the last Tuesday!! Oh no!!  :'(

Only 2 hours left for me...


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lifesSHORTtalkFAST on May 08, 2007, 03:03:03 pm
2 hours my friends
November 5, 200-May 15,2007


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: ObessedwithGG on May 08, 2007, 03:56:02 pm
I really can't think about it being one of the last Tuesdays of new GG.  I'm still desperately praying for another season, even if it is just a shortened season with 13 episodes.  I've got about an hour before the new one airs.  I can't wait.  I wonder what is going to happen...ah!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Sooks on May 08, 2007, 04:02:28 pm
1 hour...this will be a night to remember! It's the second to last episode, but thank goodness for dvd's these days! I'm so excited to see tonight's episode, but will be sad that there's only one more! I'm going to sit down and do nothing else but watch tonight's episode! (Something I don't often have the chance to do!) The show deserves my full attention! Though things are coming to an end, I'm fully perpared to enjoy the whole thing! Bring it on! :P

ObessedwithGG Where are you, may I ask? I'm in MN and on central time zone! Just noticed you said an hour too! Enjoy tonight!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: ObessedwithGG on May 08, 2007, 04:05:20 pm

ObessedwithGG Where are you, may I ask? I'm in MN and on central time zone! Just noticed you said an hour too! Enjoy tonight![/color]

I'm in Florida!  I can't wait for tonight, I kinda hope this hour goes by fast!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lifesSHORTtalkFAST on May 08, 2007, 04:36:21 pm
Less then and 1/2 and hour 4 me.
I just can't wait this 1/2 an hour better go fast.† ;D
November 5,2000 - May 15,2007


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: xdeartragedyx on May 08, 2007, 04:37:38 pm
23 minutes. ;D :'( ;D ;D

I got my popcorn and tissues ready.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: april-rain on May 08, 2007, 05:03:32 pm
It just finished airing here... I cried a lot because her graduation ceremony will be me in about 48 hours (just for high school, though).

I'm so sad that she said no, but still. I would have said no. What a jerk afterward -- I mean, come on, Logan. You still could've tried instead of being a prick and saying no. :(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreAddict7899 on May 08, 2007, 05:06:32 pm
it just started where i am...(i alrady knew she would say no....stupid spoilers.) I just cant wait to see what happens between luke and lorelai! At least she brought it up between her and Sookie. She admitted it! Yay! Those feelings probly are now...i hope.


We know that when lorelai told Babbette and Miss Patty the song didnt mean anything but woo, with luke walking in right then-badddd timing. But why doies marrige have to brake them up (if thats what will ahppen) i mean they both love eac other sooo much and they can still be together...just not married..as BF and GF.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: CathyCoffee on May 08, 2007, 05:18:26 pm
Its already amazing!!!

Its baaack!!!!!!!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: xdeartragedyx on May 08, 2007, 05:20:05 pm
It is really good so far, I just hope things start imporving with Luke and Lorelai!! :D

rofl @ emily and richards singing skills. soo cute though


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: CathyCoffee on May 08, 2007, 05:33:32 pm
I was rofling the whole time!

And what was the look on Lor's face?!


This whole no L/L thing is driving me insane.



Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreAddict7899 on May 08, 2007, 05:34:23 pm
ok...that was totally awkward with logan asking rory to marry him...i loveee them together and i would she would say yes sooo much, but there was sooo much pressue on her and i feel bad for her. okkk im kinda freaking out here.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: asense0fhope on May 08, 2007, 05:35:14 pm
EEK! I'M WATCHING THE NEW EPISODE RIGHT NOW!

its on a commercial break, i'm half way through, and i had to remind everyone not to miss it, because even though it's only half way done,  i feel like this episode is the girls we've been missing! this is probably one of the best episodes (so far!) that i've seen in a couple years!

i think you'll all be satisfied tonight, not because of any major details, but only because it seems like its our girls again!

sorry, i'm so happy that, i had to write it =D


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: #1DeanLover on May 08, 2007, 05:38:06 pm
Rory and Logan break up this episode.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: xdeartragedyx on May 08, 2007, 05:44:12 pm
Wow, they are really killing us with this Luke and Lorelai situation, huh!? haha. :)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: neverapuff on May 08, 2007, 05:45:44 pm
#1DeanLover- now why would you only write that one line? that's just a spoiler, and mean! :( (ok, well I get it by your username, but come on... what are you, liike 12?)

This episode is messing with my head! It's so good, and positive, and it all comes crashing down....

My CW station keeps messing up so I'm missing certain lines, errgh.

And the announcer guy didn't even say anything special about this being the "2nd to last episode of GG"-- why does noone care except us????


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Ggirlfan on May 08, 2007, 05:47:22 pm
It just finished airing here... I cried a lot because her graduation ceremony will be me in about 48 hours (just for high school, though).

I'm so sad that she said no, but still. I would have said no. What a jerk afterward -- I mean, come on, Logan. You still could've tried instead of being a prick and saying no. :(

Just curious, where is it finished already? †I thought being on the East Coast we saw it first?? †Are you not from the states?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: asense0fhope on May 08, 2007, 05:50:54 pm
there was a damn weekly test during it tonight.

i'm mad.

i hope it didn't happen to anyone else.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreAddict7899 on May 08, 2007, 05:54:12 pm
Logan and Rory are making me soooo nervous....i cant sit still and im about ready to cry. omg. i cant even believe it0 it just about over. Im trying to enjoy this epsiode and i am but i just cant stop thinking that this is it. One more.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: xdeartragedyx on May 08, 2007, 05:58:53 pm
#1DeanLover- now why would you only write that one line? that's just a spoiler, and mean! :( (ok, well I get it by your username, but come on... what are you, liike 12?)

This episode is messing with my head! It's so good, and positive, and it all comes crashing down....

My CW station keeps messing up so I'm missing certain lines, errgh.

And the announcer guy didn't even say anything special about this being the "2nd to last episode of GG"-- why does noone care except us????
My CW station was messed up like that last week and I missed half of Rory's dream in the beginning.

As for the announcer not saying anything, I thought they would to.. but as my mom said, most of the time they dont.. which is stupid, because you would think by announcing the end more people would be like OKAY GOTTA WATCH!

EDIT: They just announced the series finale now... *squeal* :'( :'( :'(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: LGLDandRGLH4evr on May 08, 2007, 06:00:47 pm
 † Wow. Okay, Sookie neumonic (sp?) device? Hahaha. Polly and Chaz. Or was it Chase? Gotta love Sookie. She's a great friend and very useful!
 † Paris and Doyle. Great couple. Truely perfect for each other.I think that's how they'll end the season for Paris and Doyle's relationship. Paris going off to medical school to fufill her dream as a doctor and Doyle following her and staying with her through it all. And I think that's beautiful. †
 † I don't think it's Lorelai disapproving of Logan proposing so much, as she is scared. She almost got married to Luke and did get married to Chris and neither of those turned out well. I think she's scared for Rory and she's just learned to trust Logan, so the two plus the stress of the Luke ordeal is freaking her out majorly. Has anyone noticed she hasn't had that same Lorelai glow in awhile? I've seen that glow before, when she was with Luke. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a Java Junkie. Seriously, look at the 6th Season and watch some of the 7th on youtube or on video clips or whatever. It's different. Logan's proposal was very, very sweet. I would have preferred a small, intimate proposal, but still. The speach he gave was great; very sweet, very true, very perfect. He said NO. I hate everything! I have to go run off and cry!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreAddict7899 on May 08, 2007, 06:01:49 pm
ok in tears now cring sooo hard and im so mad and i know i shouldnt be this emotionally attached to a couple on the tv but i am and i cant help it and it shouldnt end this way it shoudlnt


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: whiffenpoof on May 08, 2007, 06:02:08 pm
tears. i cant.. stop crying..


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: asense0fhope on May 08, 2007, 06:02:51 pm
i feel like the series finale is NOT going to be as satisfying as the cw and our girls are trying to play it to be.

i know it has to be amazing for any of us to be okay with the show ending,

but from the looks of it, it looks exactly like Lauren said, a GREAT SEASON FINALE and a good series finale .

this blows.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: CathyCoffee on May 08, 2007, 06:02:59 pm
I'm crying too!

After I saw "Series Finale" I started bawling.

I didn't know it could be so hard to let go of this show.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: whiffenpoof on May 08, 2007, 06:04:57 pm
i seriously feel like i just broke up with a 7 year boyfriend. husband. mother. i dont know.. the words " series finale" was like.. a stab in the heart. seriously.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: tessak on May 08, 2007, 06:06:21 pm
This was the WORST EPISODE EVER! Are you freaking kidding me? I am so sure that Rory spends 3 years with a guy and then says no to his marriage proposal. I am sooo mad at Rory. Oh wait no, I am EXTREMELY pissed off at the writers for being such idiots. And the Lorelai and Luke situation? I mean HELLO LUKE give her the darn necklace.

Wow, I am officially disgusted.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: whiffenpoof on May 08, 2007, 06:13:56 pm
I feel like someone just shot my dog that ive owned since i was a child. i am... sick. sick that its over. i am happy that Rory made that desicion just becuase it was... her. shes always been a determined individual and wanted to do her own thing. i have been diappointed in her for a while, bt i think she finally displayed that Lorelai Leigh Gilmore spunk backbone and independence that shes always had. this ending for rory makes me very happy. i thank the writers for giving rory a backbone again. The luke lorelai situation makes me sad, i wish we had more time to tie that up...

sigh. i probably spelled everything wrong. i cant see through tears..


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: JavaJunkiee on May 08, 2007, 06:14:29 pm
I'm really sad about Rory but omg if you watched the promo...I'M BEYOND EXCITED!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Courtney1983 on May 08, 2007, 06:14:52 pm
This was a good episode, I don't think Rory was wrong in saying no. I mean, she wanted to try and move on and have long distance with Logan...she just wasn't ready to have everything set out and planned for her. All her young life was spent focused on school...and now she wants time to live. I kind of wish everyone from Stars Hollow had been at the graduation, it would've been hilarious, but...it wouldn't work that way.

Anyways, I saw the promo for next week, and the second it went "After 7 years its time to say goodbye" I just burst into tears. I can't deal with this! I'm not ready to let go of these people that have spent a whole 7 years with me! I'm still crying, lol. I'm not ready to let go. I'm really not. I want everyone to know that I will be here at the ORG a long time to come because I'm not gonna get over this for a LONG time. I love you guys!!! †:'(

~Cody †;) :hearts:


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 08, 2007, 06:15:46 pm
I'm doing heavy screening of posts.  I'm not reading anyone's posts unless I have a good idea they won't make me want to shoot the monitor. 

So, Ausiello, or whatever crackpot wrote the description, this is your idea of bittersweet?  Bitter, yes.  Where's the sweet?  All the fake booze and drugs in the world didn't help this episode.  I don't buy that Logan wouldn't try a long distance relationship.  To me, this wasn't about what Logan would do, but just a slap dab way to break them up.  The writers wrote the lines without considering the characters.  And, I'm watching House now, which has to be better, what with dying patients and cranky (hot) doctors and drug addictions.  So, I'll continue the tirade later.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: CathyCoffee on May 08, 2007, 06:16:02 pm
Well I guess I'm just going to go over all my thoughts.

The begining scene was pretty funny. I always enjoy Lor/Sookie convos. And the n-word (sp is questionable) device was stupid.

Next was the Luke and Liz scene. I LOVED it. They've had really great parts together this season. And when she started talking about Lor and Luke, I could NOT stop smiling.

Kirk in a Box! The new and improved Jack in a Box. The was soooo Stars Hollow-y.

Taylor slipping in the bath tub, gotta love that guy!

Babbette was herself loudmouth self tonight!

The first LL scence seemed a tad forced, and the one after was SO out of character. You could tell Scott and Lauren are tired.

Rory, I'm aggravated at her. But not as much as I am angry at Logan. Wtf was that!? I was actually starting to LIKE Logan and even though we only have one eppy left, I still hoped he and Rory would still be together. But now I'm back to thinking he's jerk.

Lor/Chris stuff was perfect for me, becasue they were always three feet away from each other. =D

Overall, it wasn't my favorite.
That could just be because I am expecting too much.





Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: TheAcademyIs_ on May 08, 2007, 06:17:38 pm
Oh gosh, just... oh gosh.

I liked Sookie's pneumonic device. :)

It made me so upset to see how sad Luke was over Lorelai making it sound like it was nothing, because I know it means so much to the both of them. I am just so... torn over their relationship and where they stand now. Its terrible. I want it to work out. They need to work out.

I thought that the whole town wanting to attend Rory's graduation just seemed a bit.. I'm not sure, not them? I know that they've known her since she was a little girl, and they've all watched her grow up, and they're all a huge part in her life, but the writing seemed forced. Why was it such a big deal? And why did we get all of that dialogue about a party that we haven't even seen?

Emily and Richard's graduation party for Rory was a bit weird. I think the writing was off with the DAR girls; it seemed so.. last minute. And since when did Richard's hair become gray (though I guess it is about time). And, also, something big: I know that Emily might not be the best singer, but Richard should be fantastic: he was in the Yale Whiffenpoofs. And being "out of practice" can't be an explanation, because he's sang with them on other occasions even though he's already graduated. I thought that was a really big, glaring hole that the writers should have noticed.

Rory graduating. It was such an emotional moment.  She's finally done it, done what she's been talking about and waiting for and working for since season one: graduating from college. She looked so great standing up there, getting her diploma, it was amazing. And Lor looked so happy, and so proud, ... oh, gosh, it was so good. :)

I was so, so, so upset when she said no. I wasn't one hundred percent she was going to say yes, and I'm not sure that I wanted her to, but I admit, I was outraged when Logan told he all or nothing. I think that's terrible. I know that he wants to pursue his career, but if he really loved her, he should have understood that she didn't want to fully, completely commit this early in her adult life. I really thought Logan was going to last. :(



Edit: 8:27 PM

I remembered something else: I've noticed over the last three episodes how much Paris has really grown up. When we first met her, she was unstable, a bit insane, and overall whacky (and! she didn't like Rory). But now she has grown into a fabulous, amazing, outstanding young woman who will be attending Harvard (hah!) Medical School. Its incredible. I think she's really one of my favorite character transformations over these seven (sniff) great seasons. She's really, really matured.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: crayolamarker66333 on May 08, 2007, 06:20:11 pm
I really thought that this episode was very sentimental... I swore I started to see the shows old character again.. all the town's people, being the nutcases they are.. Christopher being there when all the important things happen, Luke trying to fight for Lorelai, Rory trying to find her place, and Logan.. of course the proposal, the whole show was about her getting through high school, and college, it would have ruined it, if she would have said yes.. so thank you God. †Also, the grandparents, emily being her old self, along with Richard trying to make everything better, but WHERE was Lane.. it's her best friend.. I mean really, everyone was pretty much in it but her...

This episode brought back a lot of when she graduated high school, and the apartment, the place she will be leaving, and may not be able to stumble upon again.. and the answer she gave to Logan, it was a big one, and she will not be able to go back to that one either, which is okay with me because I am a die hard fan of Rory and Jess... hahaha!

I love it.. and I am soo happy for the next episode, did you see in the spoilers, LORELAI AND LUKE KISSY POO POO!! YAYAYAYAYAYAY!

 I feel that it will get it's character back, things will be back to normal, like they should be, although the fact the show will over, but you never know, they could totally be 7th-Heavening it, because I'm sure the demand is high for it, and I'm sure rating are going up because it is the end of the season, and because this site has helped sooo much in keeping Gilmore Girls alive for me, in the sense they kept it a reality like everything was going to be okay... and it will be!!! †I am sure with all this support they will come back.. better than ever!!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: laurla205 on May 08, 2007, 06:23:35 pm
Argh.  Iím so torn.  I hate that Rory and Logan broke up.  I hate that it had to be all or nothing.  And I hate that she did it because she wants her possibilities to be wide open.  Hate it hate it hate it.  I donít see why long distance wouldnít work, it worked before.  And if anything, Loganís tried everything to make it work why not this one last thing?

I honestly donít see how Rory being miserable just off a three year break up is a ďgood endingĒ.  Not at all.  And I wouldnít exactly call Logan a jerk, he just put himself on the line in the most vulnerable way anyone can for the love of his life *sigh* 

What about Kirkís night terrors in that box of his?



Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: TheAcademyIs_ on May 08, 2007, 06:25:24 pm
What about Kirkís night terrors in that box of his?

hahahaha. :)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: violaplayer1234 on May 08, 2007, 06:27:10 pm
I'm crying.

I hated Luke for not bringing out the necklace.  I hated Lorelai for saying it meant nothing.  I loved Rory giving up Logan and the ring, making her choice.  I agree, they couldn't move back in their relationship.  But I agree, this will not be a good ending for Rory, still grieving over Logan.

The promo was the worst, hearing them admit it was the end.  This just sucks right now. 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: airangel85 on May 08, 2007, 06:31:14 pm
OOOO!!!!!!  I am sooooo pissed.  She should have said yes.  When she tried on the ring she smiled.  I could have sworn she was going to say yes!!!  That completly ruined the show ending for me.  He is sooo completely perfect for her.  I am beyond livid with the writers taking the show in this direction for the next to last episode.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: the girls4ever on May 08, 2007, 06:33:11 pm
Okay this episode was so emotional.

Firstly, my dear Rory and Logan. I am torn with this. On one hand, why did Rory not accept the proposal even though she said she could imagine them engaged/married? But I did not expect Logan making an ultimatum like that, how very Lorelai of him. I understand him not wanting to go backward with the whole long distance thing but if you've done it before, why not again? It was definitely sad when he was just like "goodbye rory" and walked away. Almost 3 years of that relationship didn't deserve in ending like this. Disappointing for Rogan fans everywhere †:'(


Luke and Lorelai. It is so like Luke to drop hints like he did in their convo outside by Kirk. I understand how Luke felt maybe she was putting herself out there and waiting for him to reciprocate (like Liz said. And great scene Luke and with Liz btw. Amazing! She knows him so well). And when he grabbed Rory's earrings and just stared at the necklace box, it scremed season 4 right before they hooked up to me. He has his feelings invested only to be let down, but soon enough they both got their acts together  :-* You could see the disappointment in his face when he overheard Lorelai say it didn't mean anything. He kind of built it up in his mind like "hey, maybe it did mean something". Lorelai was just trying to get the town off her back by saying it meant nothing, imo. There are definitely loving feelings still there and they will come up in the finale because it makes sense!

I was happy with the Lorelai and Christopher scenes. They're gonna get hold of the whole divorced parenting thing sooner than they think...even though we won't be there to see it †:'(


Emily and Richard were superb a always. They have always added more greatness to the show. I loved when Emily was obsessing about finding out Rory's answer, so like her.

*And did I hear Richard call Lorelai sweetheart? I think he did. I don't think he's ever said that before. It definitely shows the progression of their relationship.

Okay, I think that's all for now. This epi had me in tears and I'm sure next week's will too.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: iluvgilmoregirls! on May 08, 2007, 06:34:40 pm
I can't believe there is one more episode left ever I am so upset! but anyway. That was a good episode sad but good. I cried when Rory graduated and I was mad Luke didn't come. At first when I heard Rory was going say no I didn't really care to be honest because I figured they could just fix it in the next season but I don't think that is going to happen so now I am upset now we will never know who she ends up with mean that makes me smad. That was so cute with Emily and Richard singing. Oh also did anyone else notice that Emily was almost wearing the outfit she wore to her High school graduating it was not the same but prrety close. :)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: neverapuff on May 08, 2007, 06:34:52 pm
What a punch in the gut for the audience when the last view we had of Rory before graduation was her, trying on the ring, starting to smile....and then the big "Nope"-- ooh, writers, what a twist!! (the sarcasm is obvious, here, yes?)

It was very disheartening when Logan just coldly walked away and aloofily, quietly said, "bye, rory"... that was very uncharacteristic, I thought....

I can't wrap my mind around other things yet...

but, good pickup to whomever mentioned the Whippenpoof vs. Richard's off-voice thing- someone should prettystick you for that!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: xdeartragedyx on May 08, 2007, 06:36:03 pm
I am happy with Rory's final decision. †When they first brought Logan into the picture, I hated him.. I couldn't see him with Rory and their relationship irked me. †Over time, he grew on me and I didn't mind so much. †But even being a fan of the two of them.. it just didn't feel right in the end for them to get married. †I'm happy that Lorelai and Luke seem to be moving forward a bit, i think things will end up good with them.. but it's taking too long!! †I want him to give her that necklace.

I just want to hug everyone here, next weeks episode is going to require the usage of a box full of tissues.. or 10, that's for sure. †


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: iluvLandL17 on May 08, 2007, 06:36:43 pm
i posted this is the discusio of spoilers but will some one please help meeee....??? MY POWER WENT OUT RIGHT WHEN LUKE WALKED INTO LIZS IDK WHAT HAPPENS.... THE MYSTERIOUS PINK LONG BOX EVERY ONE IS TALKIN ABOUT MUST BE FOR LORELAI... but when, where, how can some one please tell me this stuff and where land when luke heard lorelai saying the song was a mistake??? †i need to get this info be 4 i got to bed or will not be able to get to sleep..lol PLEASE ??? :( :(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lsufan on May 08, 2007, 06:36:59 pm
This episode had a few great moments, but overall it was very disappointing. Almost boring, not emotional for me at all. I didn't feel any of the tension I think I was supposed to feel. Logan/Rory. Whatever. Christopher. Whatever. Blah. Blah. Blah.

And what the heck is up with those promos? They didn't leave much to the imagination, did they? Jeez, that was stupid.



Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 08, 2007, 06:38:29 pm
me having technical problems. can't post. 

Mad about Logan and Rory. Not believable. Stupid. Lorelai also stupid. No longer care that it is ending.  Too DEPRESSING for me - i am ready to stop being depressed now. Rory without Logan is too depressing and NOT believable for me. Young people DO get married. She is skitzo and her answer made NO GOOD SENSE.   :'(

Screw it - i am gonna give my energy elsewhere - to something GOOD not something bad which GG is for me at this time.

Throw tomatos, i don't even care.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: pantmusic on May 08, 2007, 06:38:37 pm
Honestly, I was not happy with this episode. I agree with Rory's decision not to marry Logan, just not with how he handled it. He grabbed the ring from her hand and practically stormed off. What was with that!!!!!

Just listening to the dialogue, it does not sound like our gilmore girls. I loved Richard and Emily's song but it doesn't sound like anything ASP would have written. It was funny but very out of character. Also, when Rory and Paris were out before the ceremony and drinking it just didn't seem like them (not just because they were drinking, I fully realize that they are adults and that is appropriate for them) but just the scene/actions/ and dialogue in general didn't fit their characters.

I can't imagine Luke and Lorelai really being in a good place next week to end it. Overall, I'm just really unhappy with everything that is going on right now.

I think next weeks episode would make a great season finale, but not SERIES FINALE. The fact that they are not using ASP's original final scene is really upsetting to me also.


p.s. read the Lauren Grahm interview; it showed, for me at least, that she is aware that the new writers are not living up to ASP standards.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: aryan2003 on May 08, 2007, 06:39:10 pm
It was overall a good episode. Next weeks promo seems to give a hint that the finale will round everything up. Yes it's time, and the story line is basicallly finished, however, arent shows based on views. they dont jst hvae shows for the sake of it. Us viewer, alot of people, want a GG season 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, etc..... SO GIVE US ONE

YAY RORY SAID NO, but logan clearly wants a girl for status, or he would have accepeted it longdistancd. He †pulled a lorelai :P


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: TheAcademyIs_ on May 08, 2007, 06:39:49 pm
It was very disheartening when Logan just coldly walked away and aloofily, quietly said, "bye, rory"... that was very uncharacteristic, I thought....

but, good pickup to whomever mentioned the Whippenpoof vs. Richard's off-voice thing- someone should prettystick you for that!

- yeah, I agree, it didn't seem like him at all. I mean, honestly, thiey've been together for so long. I think they've both changed immensely since they met, and you can tell they are deeply in love. But what, after they break-up, especially after his marraige proposal, he just walks off without so much as a "I'll miss you"? He might have been in shock, or maybe he didn't want to argue with her, but still. You feel more when you are let down from a marriage proposal. Ask Max Medina, I think he would have an even better view on the situation with a Gilmore Girl.

- thanks! :)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Ggirlfan on May 08, 2007, 06:41:39 pm
i feel like the series finale is NOT going to be as satisfying as the cw and our girls are trying to play it to be.

i know it has to be amazing for any of us to be okay with the show ending,

but from the looks of it, it looks exactly like Lauren said, a GREAT SEASON FINALE and a good series finale .

this blows.

I feel the same way. †I feel like I felt after I watched the season finale of season six. †I feel even more sick after I watched the previews for next week, which I know I can't mention here. †There is NO way the next episode is going to give the fans closure. I think you can tell that this episode and from the previews of next episode were planned on it only being a season finale. †

I was so frustrated when Lorelai and Luke both walked away when they were outside the diner talking. †I was yelling, "Wait...your not finished talking yet!!" †I was really hoping for more of a scene there.

I'm not sure how I feel about Logan and Rory yet. †I knew it was coming from the spoilers, but I don't understand why it has to be all or nothing.

I liked the conversation with Liz and Luke, and I did see the hurt in his face when he overheard Lorelai. †I was hoping Lorelai would have pulled him aside and said SOMETHING, because obviously she couldn't say anything with Miss Patty and Babette there. †Another frustrating moment.

I really liked Paris a lot in the episode. †The scene with her and Doyle was nice, as was the scene with the 4 girls talking about graduation. †

Oh, why would Rory tell Logan AT the graduation??? †Why not tell him no in a moment when it was just the two of them. †He just walks away and says "Bye Rory"???? ??? †Seems a little out of character to me.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: xdeartragedyx on May 08, 2007, 06:45:00 pm
i posted this is the discusio of spoilers but will some one please help meeee....??? MY POWER WENT OUT RIGHT WHEN LUKE WALKED INTO LIZS IDK WHAT HAPPENS.... THE MYSTERIOUS PINK LONG BOX EVERY ONE IS TALKIN ABOUT MUST BE FOR LORELAI... but when, where, how can some one please tell me this stuff and where land when luke heard lorelai saying the song was a mistake??? †i need to get this info be 4 i got to bed or will not be able to get to sleep..lol PLEASE ??? :( :(
Luke went to Liz's to get the earrings for Rory's graduation, the whole time Liz was talking about Lorelai and what happened with the whole karaoke thing.. and Luke was trying to say it didn't mean anything and she didn't know what she was talking about, etc. †He was looking at a necklace and said it was nice, Liz said she made it with Lorelai in mind and it would be perfect for her. †Luke said he just thought it was nice and decided to get it as a back-up for Rory... (but we all know it's for Lorelai, right!?) †

Forward to Lorelai sitting at Luke's diner next to Ms Patty and Babette, they were talking about the Karaoke as well, and she unconvincingly said it didn't mean anything, Luke overheard and you could tell he was upset. †Then he began to give Lorelai the cold shoulder.


Anything else you need to know that I didn't cover?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: mygirl6003 on May 08, 2007, 06:46:03 pm
very sad!!!! Rory rejected Logan! >:( :(
and Lorlei said in front of Luke that the karoke meant nothing! :( :( :o :o :o
can't wait for the series finale next week!!!!!!!!! :) ;D :D ;) :)
 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
 :P :P :P :P :P
 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
 :-X :-X :-X
 :-X :-X :'( :'( :'(
 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :) :) :) :) :)


Quote
so very sad!!!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: iluvLandL17 on May 08, 2007, 06:49:16 pm
i posted this is the discusio of spoilers but will some one please help meeee....??? MY POWER WENT OUT RIGHT WHEN LUKE WALKED INTO LIZS IDK WHAT HAPPENS.... THE MYSTERIOUS PINK LONG BOX EVERY ONE IS TALKIN ABOUT MUST BE FOR LORELAI... but when, where, how can some one please tell me this stuff and where land when luke heard lorelai saying the song was a mistake??? †i need to get this info be 4 i got to bed or will not be able to get to sleep..lol PLEASE ??? :( :(
Luke went to Liz's to get the earrings for Rory's graduation, the whole time Liz was talking about Lorelai and what happened with the whole karaoke thing.. and Luke was trying to say it didn't mean anything and she didn't know what she was talking about, etc. †He was looking at a necklace and said it was nice, Liz said she made it with Lorelai in mind and it would be perfect for her. †Luke said he just thought it was nice and decided to get it as a back-up for Rory... (but we all know it's for Lorelai, right!?) †

Forward to Lorelai sitting at Luke's diner next to Ms Patty and Babette, they were talking about the Karaoke as well, and she unconvincingly said it didn't mean anything, Luke overheard and you could tell he was upset. †Then he began to give Lorelai the cold shoulder.


Anything else you need to know that I didn't cover?
pretty much covers it... but one question how did liz find out about the karaoke night ? just from all the gossipers in stars hallow?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Gilmorefan xx on May 08, 2007, 06:52:28 pm
I think what Logan did wasn't the best thought out. Maybe he was just a little bit too confident that Rory would accept. I feel very sorry for Rory, the "all or nothing" was a really tough decision. I think she made the right choice in the end, though. Poor Rory. Two graduations where boyfriends broke her heart. =(

I think the whole no season 8 thing kicked in during the promo tonight. THE FINAL EPISODE. I hadn't cried at all after learning the sad news, but when I saw the promo, tears were flowin.†

Kirk=the next David Blaine.
I always get a kick out of him. He had on a pretty awesome shirt during the town meeting, too, I'd say. lol.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: laurla205 on May 08, 2007, 06:54:05 pm
I noticed Richard call Lorelai sweetheart too! †It was a nice moment. †And I thought Richard subdued Emily nicely. †He always stops her when she goes too far but he really put the kibosh on her complaining right away each time.

*deep breaths* †How was Logan supposed to react? †I agree I donít like that it had to be all or nothing but she just turned down his proposal, give him a minute. He wanted her to marry him for status?? *deep breaths, deep breaths*

I think Lorelai and Luke need to get on with it and have a real conversation. †All of this bickering to make things better, gah. †I liked the end scene of IJLRAB but itís sort of tarnished it if all theyíre going to do is keep taking cheap shots at each other. †Luke did call Lorelai out on just who they were talking about, but neither of them seemed to be talking about Rory.

Paris seemed a lot softer in this episode. †I love her hair down and curly like that.


Yes, Liz found out from the buzz around town.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: LovelyLaura on May 08, 2007, 06:59:46 pm
I am just so....pissed off at the way they treated Luke and Lorelai this episode. †And their last conversation?? †Wha...wha...what was going on there? †I'm still confuzzled. †So, Luke was saying that some people need to take relationships slowly. †And Lorelai says people just need to dive in. †Sooo, story of their breakup? †Aren't we over that by now? †Isn't this the time to be thinking of Luke and Lorelai's FUTURE?! †Shouldn't they be referencing their current feelings, not something that happened a year ago? †I mean, IF there was a season 8 (*cough cough*), I guess it would be ok to still be mulling over "breakup feelings." †But not when the freakin' show ends NEXT WEEK!

[Edit]
Am I allowed to talk about promos on here?  I don't know.  Anyway, took out a little bit about Luke and Lorelai, but other than that....
GIVE HER THE DAMN NECKLACE LUKE. †You know you love her. †She obviously loves you -- oh yeah, she said the song didn't mean anything. †But grow a backbone Danes. †She was talking to Babette and Miss Patty. †What else is she supposed to say? †"Oh yes, I sang that song JUST for Luke because I am still madly in love with him." †Yes, after seven years of Lorelai Gilmore, we know that she is never confused about her feelings. [bitter sarcasm]

I was very surprised at how the breakup between Logan and Rory actually happened. †As a spoiler-junkie, I was merely waiting. †However, much of the hoo-rah has been centering on how Rory breaks Logan's heart. †When actually, it was LOGAN who pounded the final nail in the coffin. †And how weird was that scene? †Alexis was obviously displaying plenty of emotion -- kudos to Rory for that. †But Logan seemed strangely formal throughout the whole thing. †And wait just one second: †Didn't he just say, a few weeks ago, that he didn't want to stand in the way of her career. †That he would follow her? †Now he's mister "all or nothing?" †Wha? †Well one) I don't blame Rory for doing what she did. †Yes, she's been dating the guy for three years but she's also graduating from college. †She's starting her career. †Like Rory said, she's at a place in life where everything is very up-in-the-air. †Marrying Logan would mean picking out that life RIGHT now. †And it would involve California, The San Francisco Chronicle and an avocado tree. †A great life, don't get me wrong. †But I don't think Rory's ready to choose quite yet. †And I CERTAINLY don't think it was fair for Logan to hand out ultimatums at this incredibly crucial juncture in her life. †He should know better. †And we all know how pissy Gilmore ultimatums make me (last season finale...grrrr)

I'm just so...disastified. †I know that the show has decreased in quality, and more often than not, this season has frustrated me rather than please me. †Which isn't right since this is a COMEDY, as well as a drama. †Above all, I have always laughed while watching Gilmore Girls. †Whenever I pop in a DVD, it's guaranteed to make me happy -- even if Lorelai is dating someone like Max. †But this season is just so STRESSFUL. †First Christopher (ugh) and now this whole blah-blah of L/L's relationship. †Rory and Logan haven't made me the happiest person in the world either. †It's just not right! †BUT, if there was a season 8, all of this could be fixed. †I really do believe that. †The story lines would be treated with RESPECT and given a PROPER conclusion. †This doesn't cut it.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: aryan2003 on May 08, 2007, 07:00:16 pm
logan did do teh final propertly, it was suitable.okay everyone. I refuse to come back on ANY gg site, for now, because their is something inside of me saying, march/april/may are really suckish, but try to pick up thepieces aryan, keep goign, dont let a set back depress you. I have a tight stomach right now. i feel,,,,, tight. i cant explain, when this hapens, my back hurts, like, feels lie slouchy. so, bye.

COME ON SEASON 8, PLEASE!

i sent 8 emails to dawn!



Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: iluvLandL17 on May 08, 2007, 07:00:30 pm
thanks again.... but i totally agree with you they need to like have a real converstaion... both of them arent that stupid they both knew they werent talkin about logen and rory they were talkin about themselves. i thought that was pretty good though how lorelai waslike wouldnt you know and luke was like wouldnt who know and then lorelai goes well rory. i have a question are you allowed to talk about other episodes on this like i mean can i ask somthing about the next episode... i am wantin to hear what people think but im not so sure where to put it??


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 08, 2007, 07:02:02 pm

I honestly donít see how Rory being miserable just off a three year break up is a ďgood endingĒ.  Not at all.  And I wouldnít exactly call Logan a jerk, he just put himself on the line in the most vulnerable way anyone can for the love of his life *sigh* 



Well, it would be the height of stupid on the writers' part to imply in the last episode that Rory has gotten over the break up, since she said she was in love with Logan and wanted to try the long distance, so unless they really are morons, she'll have to have some sadness next week.  So, some ending.  And, they had Logan going on about how he knew everything would be okay if he had her, so he has to miserable.  Yep, it's going to be one pile of happiness in the finale for Rory.  What an ending.


Meanwhile on House, we have the usual screwed up characters doing screwed up things and almost killing people.  And, there's more happiness and laughter in that show than this one.  And, it's coming back next year!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: sangria on May 08, 2007, 07:03:50 pm
Wow--

After a lot of pouting & being mad--I'm glad that our "two favorite girls" actresses are doing what they want. †They have said in interviews how grueling each episode is, and they've put their lives practically "on hold" while the series is airing. †I appreciate that they've done it this long. †7 years is a pretty long time of 14 hours a day.

I was shocked that Rory didn't say Yes, but if she can say it, and Logan's going to hang it up, then OK. †You gotta admit that Rory settling down and having kids would be a bit weird right now. †Maybe Logan's just playing hardball and will be back. †We'll have to see. †I think he's partly feeling insecure--going to be away from his homies, etc...he'll probably miss Rory, so I think all balls are still in her court.

Do you think they'll work Jess back in? †I didn't think it was possible before...I can hear Jess fans cheering everywhere!!! :celebrate:



Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreGal16 on May 08, 2007, 07:04:59 pm
Terrible episode! WOW is all I have to say. Emily ruiened the whole thing with her nagging and Rory and Logan. If the guy that I love for 3 years walked out of my life I would be a wreck!!! Terrible! just terrible!! I glad it is ending, another season like this and I would have died!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: ObessedwithGG on May 08, 2007, 07:06:50 pm
Well, frankly, if this really is the final season (God forbid) then they won't have time to work Jess back in and I don't think they would anyways. †This episode, well, it was definitly a good one. †As the graduation of Lorelai Leigh Gilmore should be. †However, one more episode just doesn't seem enough. †I really can't believe it...not even a little bit. †


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Gilmorefan xx on May 08, 2007, 07:07:54 pm
I wish they could've worked Jess in. That would have been my idea of an AMAZING series finale. =)

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when the show came on I saw under Executive Producer(i think) ASP's name. Has it been there the whole season, and I just didn't notice, or did she really help with this episode?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: elocin on May 08, 2007, 07:08:21 pm
i don't know what i'm going to do with out GILMORE GIRLS!!!!!
i'm mad that logan gave rory an ultimatium...even if i don't particurlary love logan i want her to be happy
AND didn't it seem somewhat out of character she wasn't more upset about it???
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhggggggggggggggggg. soooooo frusturated it's going to end!
<3 Nicole


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: LostInside1324 on May 08, 2007, 07:10:30 pm
I am so mad! My favourite TV couple does not end up together! :'(

They date for three years. They're in love. And Rory says no. After a very public marriage propose, she says no. Logan wanted it to be special, he wanted to show her how much he loved him. I understand that Rory would want to go out and see the world first, but come on! You don't have to get engaged and then married the next day! They could have waited a few years before setting a date!

And if the person I cared about most in the world didn't feel the same way, I'd be pretty mad too. What was Logan supposed to do, say, "It's okay" and give her a hug? He's a very emotional person; and his heart was just broken. Cut the poor boy some slack.

I would have preferred to see them tie up loose ends rather than open things up that way. You don't end a relationship like that before the series ends. Thank goodness there's hope for Luke and Lorelai; otherwise I'd take all my DVD's and throw them at my televison. †:wall: :smash:


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: neverapuff on May 08, 2007, 07:12:42 pm
I would just like to point out that 120 guest are viewing this page †;D Hello fellow fans! And they say ratings are down, puh-lease...

Anyway, someone brought up a good point... † an ultimatum, and making Rory move to CA to be with him doesn't sound like Logan "factoring HER in", now does it? †Logan may be many things, but doesn't seem like a hypocrite or one to go back on his word... just overexcited because of his job offer?? Ugh, the whole thing doesn't sit well with me; and no, not because I'm any sort of huge Logan/Rory shipper; and no, not because I got married at 22...

Luke and Lorelai conversation outside of the dinner was weeeirrrd as usual... when she was talking about Logan and Rory, at one point she said something like "She should know by now"... didn't it seem like she was yelling at him? and wasn't she really talking about herself?

And I think the banter between Richard, Emily, and Lorelai sitting, waiting for the graduation to start was the big "family bonding/resolution" we've all been hoping for... ::)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Rhiannon on May 08, 2007, 07:13:12 pm
More filler! Why is the second to last episode still wasting time repeating buildup of situations we've seen before? There is not enough time.
"...send-off the show deserves..." that is such a plastic PR waste of words. We get nothing. Even the parts where something actually happened: graduation, proposal, breakup... it was just a quick scene, then back to more filler. This whole season was almost all filler, and buildup... to what?

I think every relationship except for Rory & Lorelai and Paris & Doyle is being cheated. Poor Richard and Emily, they were a pivotal point and motivation for the entire show, and now they are what? Background fuddy duddy... they might as well be just another pair sitting at the Stars Hollow town meeting. I am not a fan of Christopher or Logan, but they've been part of the show for a long time... and that was their sendoff?

Luke and jewerly from Liz? That is what we get after all of these years and ups and downs? An old device that was lovely for a brand new couple... not a once engaged couple that have broken up twice and been through enormous pain. Weren't these last two episodes supposed to let us know that they've grown or turned a corner? No, it is like Rory and Jess walking to the diner door to talk, and then changing their mind back in season 3. From teenagers that behavior makes sense. What would Luke and Lorelai have to lose by saying something? Why did they tease us with that touching connection last week during her song just to jerk us back again?

How can there be time for a loving sendoff of mother and daughter when all of these plot holes still need filling?

And, yes, I had tears fill my eyes when the promo said "series finale" too. Not even just prick my eyes, but FILL them.

I just wish everyone (fans, cast, writers, the whole keboodle) had known that this was going to be the end at least by January.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: khadijahnm on May 08, 2007, 07:17:01 pm
First, I have to admit that I didn't read the previous four pages. I am too excited and upbeat to sit here and read them at this moment.

I loved this episode for the most part. I have alot to say about Lorelai and Luke but first let me address the Rory and Logan situation.

I am not as invested in them as I am in L&L. I will admit that.

But I am very disappointed that once Rory understood it was 'all or nothing' with Logan that her love for him didn't win out. I would have loved for her to have said yes at that point. I think the writers could have shown him leaving for CA and then her staying behind to tie up loose ends and then showing her with her mom and the town in the last episode. I don't understand why she had to say no.

I think the writers could still have had their ending with Lorelai and Rory but with everyone knowing that she was off to start her adult life with Logan.

Now on to the Luke and Lorelai relationship.

Oh my !!! Oh my!!! Oh my!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry for those of my fellow viewers that disliked this episode or thought that the interaction between L&L was forced or too predictable but I was anxious, then disappointed, then elated with their conversations.

I really think that it was brilliant to show how both of them are trying to deal with their feelings while trying to figure how the other one feels with out actually asking. I liked this because in the beginning of the series, it was Luke who was smitten with Lorelai but she was in denial about his feelings for her.

Now they are both "all in" but are unsure of themselves and it seems that each of them is waiting for the other one to say or do something significant. I mean it is cute (in my humble opinion) that each of them sees an action of the other as a sign and then reciprocates.

Bring on next week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course I am still in denial that there is only one show left.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: pantmusic on May 08, 2007, 07:17:35 pm
I wish they could've worked Jess in. That would have been my idea of an AMAZING series finale. =)


ooooo that would be incredible!!

No, but seriously I fully realize that the chance of jess coming back is practically impossible (but a girl can always wish, right?)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: laurla205 on May 08, 2007, 07:18:51 pm
thanks again.... but i totally agree with you they need to like have a real converstaion... both of them arent that stupid they both knew they werent talkin about logen and rory they were talkin about themselves. i thought that was pretty good though how lorelai waslike wouldnt you know and luke was like wouldnt who know and then lorelai goes well rory. i have a question are you allowed to talk about other episodes on this like i mean can i ask somthing about the next episode... i am wantin to hear what people think but im not so sure where to put it??

Either the spoilers thread or the season 7 assorted previews for discussing the previews for the next :)

Well, it would be the height of stupid on the writers' part to imply in the last episode that Rory has gotten over the break up, since she said she was in love with Logan and wanted to try the long distance, so unless they really are morons, she'll have to have some sadness next week.† So, some ending.† And, they had Logan going on about how he knew everything would be okay if he had her, so he has to miserable.† Yep, it's going to be one pile of happiness in the finale for Rory.† What an ending.

Meanwhile on House, we have the usual screwed up characters doing screwed up things and almost killing people.† And, there's more happiness and laughter in that show than this one.† And, it's coming back next year!

:wall: This is my new favorite emoticon. †Maybe after a little bit of banging my head against the wall I'll understand.



Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: violaplayer1234 on May 08, 2007, 07:20:42 pm
I wish they could've worked Jess in. That would have been my idea of an AMAZING series finale. =)


ooooo that would be incredible!!

No, but seriously I fully realize that the chance of jess coming back is practically impossible (but a girl can always wish, right?)

As much as I love Jess, I knew he was over after The Real Paul Anka. †He had a great role on the show, and they left Jess fans with a lot but wanting more (myself included) which sometimes a better way. †He left the show well. †

I'm still sad, although my crying has subdued. †I loved the Pussycat Doll referance...but Lorelai and Chris were SO friendly considering the breakup...


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Gilmorefan xx on May 08, 2007, 07:22:59 pm
Quote
No, but seriously I fully realize that the chance of jess coming back is practically impossible (but a girl can always wish, right?)

That's right! We're kind of setting outselves up for disappointment, but who cares?

Since I know everyone is eager to get their opinions out there, they don't always read the previous posts. And this question has been bothering me, so i'll just post it again, in hopes that some'll answer!

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when the show came on I saw under Executive Producer(i think) ASP's name. Has it been there the whole season, and I just didn't notice, or did she really help with this episode?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: neverapuff on May 08, 2007, 07:24:47 pm
It's been there the whole season; she's had nothing to do with the show since she left. It's some sort of technicality because she created the show.
(ASP is another one of those 'all or nothing' types)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: royalschick2910 on May 08, 2007, 07:26:18 pm
ugg I hate the ending of the series... >:(

It's my 16th birthday and they make the cute guy gets turned down.

Yeah i'm gonna tell him i love him and have loved him for 3 years and i'm going to let him walk right out of my life like that.

Kinda funny how Loralei did the same thing with Luke that Logan did to Rory....

now the series ends with a depressed Rory...

greeattt


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 08, 2007, 07:26:46 pm

I would have preferred to see them tie up loose ends rather than open things up that way. You don't end a relationship like that before the series ends.

Have a drink.  I passed some around to the shippers in the spoiler thread, but unfortunately all you guys (not that I know if you read spoilers or not) who prefer to be surprised got ambushed.  And, silly one.  Of course you end a relationship like that, where both characters have envisioned a future together (recall early on in the season, Rory complaining about Bobbi calling her cute or something and saying that The Great Wall of China and the pyramids or whatever -things that last -like what she thought her relationship would be- weren't cute) in one episode.  You manufacture a proposal that wouldn't have existed if it wasn't the catalyst for a break up, completely go against prior characterization so that a perfectly plausible lets try long distance and maybe a long engagement (or even an "ask me again later") isn't an option, garnish and serve.  All the cool writers are doing it these days.

Seriously, have a drink.  And, your choice of mind numbing drugs.  Makes it easier to swallow the tale.

And, you people post a lot.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Ggirlfan on May 08, 2007, 07:26:52 pm
I had tears in my eyes after the episode too. †I was talking to my 10 year old son and actually got all choked up and upset. †He was lookng at me like I was crazy crying over the ending of a tv show! †I am so glad when I come here to see that I am not alone. †I am so upset that everything was done as if this were a season finale. I am sure that the episodes would not have been wrapped up this way if they knew it was the end when it was filmed. †

I guess I am more upset about the Luke/Lorelai moments not because of the moments themselves, because it does make sense that they are awkward around each other right now. †I am only impatient because now I know that next week is it. †So there is no time for this awkwardness for them to get where I would like to think of them if this is the end of what we see. †Although part of me still sees that Luke and Lorelai still have communication issues as witnessed by their discussion of "Rory and Logan" when it should have been about "Lorelai and Luke".


Since I know everyone is eager to get their opinions out there, they don't always read the previous posts. And this question has been bothering me, so i'll just post it again, in hopes that some'll answer!
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when the show came on I saw under Executive Producer(i think) ASP's name. Has it been there the whole season, and I just didn't notice, or did she really help with this episode?


ASP has always been the producer. †I believe her name was always there because she created the show. †I don't think she had anything to do with this specific episode.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Gilmorefan xx on May 08, 2007, 07:27:04 pm
Quote
It's been there the whole season; she's had nothing to do with the show since she left. It's some sort of technicality because she created the show.
Oh, thanks for answering my question! I guess it was just some wishful thinking...


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 08, 2007, 07:28:20 pm
SERENADE! That's the word I was looking for all last week. Man, if the SAT board could see me now...

Emily and Richard are so cute together. That funny rhyming toast thing must run in the family. And I loved the way Richard was so random and interrupting. It's like they fast-forwarded over the hard parts of reconciling him with Lorelai and showed them having an incredible store of trivial observations together. Like father like daughter.

I really thought Rory was going to make faces on the walk. But Alexis played it with such a good nuance, I got the idea that she was going to, but couldn't for crying about the imminent separation. And Paris's hair was so pretty.

Paris and Doyle were just right. I liked the "I've got to work hard until I get a great residency, then I promise I'll cut back..." "I love you." They would make a great spinoff show.

Now, this is just my thinking, so you'll have to tell me if I'm crazy or in denial: Did that really look like the end of Rory and Logan to you people? I mean, she wants to hedge her bets, he wants to seal the deal, it could have been "Partings" all over again, only Logan was Lorelai and Rory was Luke. And the rejection was directly adjacent to Lorelai describing Luke as someone who might never be ready, even though we know he knows he made a mistake the night he said he couldn't take a leap with Lorelai. Not to mention the expression on her face when Lorelai was trying to console her. It looked just like Lorelai's the morning after her karaoke debut.

That, plus we know the spoilers are really foilers equals hope that it's all a massive fakeout.

Speaking of which, Lorelai said the SERENADE "didn't mean anything" to Miss Patty and Babbette. Luke was saying the exact same thing to Liz only hours before. He's thick, but it came in handy this time. They still hadn't had a conversation about the night they broke up (that wasn't about Lorelai's tramp-oline) and they probably wouldn't have if they hadn't chilled after her charged SERENADE.

It makes sense. Lorelai said she didn't know what she wanted - because she still hasn't forgiven Luke for making her wait and letting her worry about his feelings for her. Their discussion tonight may be all the closure we get on that, so I don't mind if the avenue was making Luke look as grouchy and closed off as the old Luke.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: JillianLovesFood on May 08, 2007, 07:30:18 pm
So much happened in this one episode, I wish it was LONGER so we didn't have to wait until next week to find out.

Anyway, I liked Lorelai and Sookie's little banter in the teaser especially when Lorelai brought up Luke.

I loved how Lorelai had a feeling her singing got to Luke in a good way but not being sure how he REALLY took it... that's totally like Lorelai in "Raincoats and Recipes" where she didn't know how Luke really felt and it drove her crazy thinking about it.

I loved Luke's scene with Liz! The way Liz can narrow down what people are really thinking even when they deny it is cool. She could tell straight off that Lorelai's singing got to him and Luke was well... Luke not admitting it did but totally having it reflect in his actions. I liked it when Luke told Liz he knew Lorelai didn't mean anything about it because she was drunk at the time that IF she really DID then she would visit him at the diner. Then she visited him at the diner that day. I also liked how he trying to convince Liz he wasn't buying the necklace for Lorelai... when of course he did.

There were two times when I literally covered my eyes like watching a horror movie because it was too intense to see. One was when Luke came in as Lorelai told Sookie her song meant nothing to her. The other was when Logan proposed to Rory.

I can't believe Lorelai didn't have enough sense to figure out "Gee Luke is all of a sudden pissed off, I wonder if he heard me?" HELLO! She's not that dense!

Logan's proposal was okay but way less impactful as I thought. I thought there would be more to it than what he said and because there wasn't I didn't feel as bad when Rory wasn't sure.

I LOVED how Lorelai asked Luke what his opinion was on Rory's proposal because two things happened that I loved most in this episode. One- Luke was ranting about Lorelai and not Rory but Lorelai thought he was talking about Rory. His whole rant reminded me of when in "Raincoats and Recipes" where he was on a rant about Jason while leaving Lorelai confused on what he was saying. Also like his "What about the kids?!" rant. So it was definately like old times. Two- what Luke said is EXACTLY what Lorelai was thinking and told Rory at the end. It showed how the two of them really do connect.

The town meeting was a classic town meeting. I loved Kirk in a Box... I wonder if he's related to any Jacks? Ah anyway, I also LOVED when Kirk insisted Lulu should reenact Rory's part in the graduation ceremony! I cracked up so loud!

Richard and Emily singing... ah, so THIS is where Lorelai gets it from. So she's not too detached from their sort of antics. I thought Richard was a hoot in this whole episode. I loved how he was during the graduation too.

I loved how Rory called Lorelai after the proposal and they were in that horse-drawn carriage together. That was a cute scene and what Lorelai WANTED to say you can SEE in her face but she refused to tell Rory what she was really thinking.

Lorelai and Rory's "spackle" back and forth really fast was great to watch because it was like the old days.

Lorelai with Christopher sucked to watch but I did notice that HUGE arched doorway in the background when they first met up outside. I wonder what that represented.

When Lorelai stood up and cheered for Rory at her graduation, I was wondering why Emily and Richard didn't but I liked that. It shows how much Lorelai will always be cheering for her.

I am glad Rory said no and Logan unwilling to stay just the way they are, is a little sneak peak of WHY. She is right on how everything is either all or nothing with him and for someone like Rory who needs to plan out things and way her options, Logan would only push her to make an answer based on impulse. She still can't make her on decisions and it would suck to have him do that for her. She has to learn how to decide on the important things in life and just like Lorelai let her do.

Emily's Ray Charles's reference was hysterical and how focused she was on the whole wedding thing when Richard would change the conversation. I liked his ponderment the Fonze.

Paris and Doyle's scene at the apartment was so cute especially when Doyle just stood there grining at Paris.

As for next week's promotion... gee why not TELL us everything that happens with Lorelai and Luke I don't think we heard everything yet. See, THIS is why I have been so ticked off with the promotion department at the CW. It would've been nice just keeping the bit about Luke organizing the party and then Lorelai's reaction to hearing that... then swtich to a nice scene with Lorelai and Rory enjoying the last day together. Put a "Something happens between Lorelai and Luke which will forever change their relationship" narration or something instead of spoiling it all! We were all wrong on WHERE this kiss would take place, weren't we?

The only downside was no Lane, Zach and Jackson. Not to mention it was a little boring here and there.

I can't wait for the last episode and yet I can because it will definately be bittersweet to watch. I hate the fact that will be the last episode of Gilmore Girls EVER. It makes me so sad that it had to end this way... just when things were about to get good. I just hope they leave us with some sort of closure and with Gilmore Girls fashion.

BTW, there were some seriously spooky connections between THIS episode and my episode I wrote. I really didn't have any idea the Town Meeting would be close to what happened or that the: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" reference was going to be in there! I'm both freaked out and yet proud at the same time.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 08, 2007, 07:31:35 pm
And, not only was Rory's graduation miserable (what is it with these writers and Rory's graduations?  Her Chilton one wasn't a ball of laughs either -did both ASP and DR have miserable graduations and they used Rory Gilmore as a pseudo therapeutic way of dealing with the pent up emotions?) but they didn't even show Kirk suffocating in the box!  At least seeing Kirk shuffle off the mortal coil or whatever would have raised the happiness quotient of the episode maybe 5%  More if not for the sheer gloom of the Rory/Logan break up which nothing can make good.

What are you people?  Speed typers?  I haven't posted a thing without reading that 1, 2, 5498 replies have been posted.

Oh yes.  And, I still feel bad for Logan, because not only did they build up how much he wanted to marry her but they wrote it so people could be angry at him for ending it and forgetting canon of how just a few episodes ago, he was saying to do what she wanted job-wise.  (Naturally, it's easier if you just believe that anything half way negative is the "true" Logan and not a contrivance and out of character writing)  And, I had some other sarcastic comment, but my mind just blanked.  Must be the drugs.  Or something. 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: royalschick2910 on May 08, 2007, 07:35:00 pm
Maybe Gilmore Girls is having a 7th Heaven Moment and will sign a deal this summer...last year at this time everyone thought it was the end for 7th heaven but it wasn't. Let's hope for the best and maybe we'll be given an angel


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 08, 2007, 07:36:21 pm
Tell me about it. It's all I can do to read everything and process.

Here's the thing, though, Kirk will have been in the box for a week at Rory's grad party, right?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: royalschick2910 on May 08, 2007, 07:37:25 pm
yeah next episode kirk suffocates lol


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Gilmorefan xx on May 08, 2007, 07:38:02 pm
 
Quote
Insert Quote
And, not only was Rory's graduation miserable (what is it with these writers and Rory's graduations? †Her Chilton one wasn't a ball of laughs either -did both ASP and DR have miserable graduations and they used Rory Gilmore as a pseudo therapeutic way of dealing with the pent up emotions?) but they didn't even show Kirk suffocating in the box! †At least seeing Kirk shuffle off the mortal coil or whatever would have raised the happiness quotient of the episode maybe 5% †More if not for the sheer gloom of the Rory/Logan break up which nothing can make good.

What are you people? †Speed typers? †I haven't posted a thing without reading that 1, 2, 5498 replies have been posted.

Oh yes. †And, I still feel bad for Logan, because not only did they build up how much he wanted to marry her but they wrote it so people could be angry at him for ending it and forgetting canon of how just a few episodes ago, he was saying to do what she wanted job-wise. †(Naturally, it's easier if you just believe that anything half way negative is the "true" Logan and not a contrivance and out of character writing) †And, I had some other sarcastic comment, but my mind just blanked. †Must be the drugs. †Or something. †

Believe me, it takes me about 2 minutes just to post something, because of all the "Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post." pop-ups. I noticed the sad graduations, too! Even with Lorelai's, her own daughter couldn't make it. Some seriously sad graduations in DR and ASP's past, I agree.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 08, 2007, 07:41:30 pm
yeah next episode kirk suffocates lol

Well, in the spoiler thread, I suggested that they do a time skip to everyone's headstones and have voice overs of how their lives turned out.  Maybe next week they have someone briefly say that Kirk died, doing something stupid.  It'll be the most believable moment of the whole show.  Toss in a sight of the troubadour spontaneously combusting and  I might even call it the best series finale ever!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: royalschick2910 on May 08, 2007, 07:43:02 pm
Thats a cute idea but headstones would be depressing...how bout just clips of them from season 1-7


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: laurla205 on May 08, 2007, 07:43:26 pm
I'm actually laughing at visions of Kirk in that box after a week. †:D Good stuff. †

IDK about R/L, all signs point to permanent. †ďGoodbye RoryĒ. †And Iím choosing to believe it until I see otherwise and shortly after someone pops up on my screen and yells ďsyke!Ē


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 08, 2007, 07:45:39 pm
It's just a theory.  Maybe there was a nuance malfunction in the last scene because they were daydreaming about peanut trees.

Anyone notice Micheal Winters's leg was broken?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 08, 2007, 07:46:49 pm
Yeah, as far as the relationship goes, I think they shot it, set it on fire, fed the ashes to Paul Anka, had him barf them up and sent them to space.  They killed it dead.  A convention of serial killers could take lessons from them.

And, if we don't have headstones, how will we ever know what Lorelai's great great great great great great grandchildren (from the Rory/poor pheremone victim line and the mythical twins with Luke line) were named and what careers they had? 

Quote
Anyone notice Micheal Winters's leg was broken?

Yes. 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Ggirlfan on May 08, 2007, 07:47:35 pm
I think it is strange that after an ending like last week, we didn't get to see Lorelai and Logan's talk. †We just heard about it through Lorelai. †I think that would have been a great scene to see.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: royalschick2910 on May 08, 2007, 07:48:37 pm
yeah it wouldve been

lol there is no hope for the Gilmore Girls to get married.

although that would make a nice comeback series


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 08, 2007, 07:51:21 pm
Shot it dead? They've been together for three years and their breakup looked like her breakup with Dean. Logan might choose her over his first real job offer, or she could move to San Francisco without marrying him. They ended it in one conversation that suggested that, for all her claiming to belong to him, she was never as serious about him as she was about having all her options open.

I'm not saying it couldn't be, just that if Rory's too young to pick a man for life, maybe Logan is too young to force the issue for keeps.

Edit* Dead Silence. Okay, at the very least, framing it against her mother's failed marriage sets Logan up to be Rory's Christopher, and every time she tries to do better in the boyfriend department, she will be able to break it off easily, knowing that somewhere, Logan still carries a torch under the avocado tree.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 08, 2007, 08:02:12 pm
Which break up with Dean?  There are so many to choose from.  Although in the end the relationship with Dean is deader than dead, too.  (And, so's the one with Jess, unless Rory wants to risk blowing up when his super powered alter ego explodes New York - maybe)  But, unless they plan to do a big fake out one episode later, I don't see any signs of resurrection here.  And, what would be the point of the pretty final, we move forward or we don't move at all, only to change it in the last episode?  To be fair, I didn't see the point of this (the break up) either, so maybe they will be pointless in a way to put them back together, but I'm not betting on it.  Optimism has left the building here.  It's doing the ghostly musical tour with Elvis and Jimmy Hendrix.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: jjpolitico on May 08, 2007, 08:08:28 pm

I honestly donít see how Rory being miserable just off a three year break up is a ďgood endingĒ.† Not at all.† And I wouldnít exactly call Logan a jerk, he just put himself on the line in the most vulnerable way anyone can for the love of his life *sigh*†



Well, it would be the height of stupid on the writers' part to imply in the last episode that Rory has gotten over the break up, since she said she was in love with Logan and wanted to try the long distance, so unless they really are morons, she'll have to have some sadness next week.† So, some ending.† And, they had Logan going on about how he knew everything would be okay if he had her, so he has to miserable.† Yep, it's going to be one pile of happiness in the finale for Rory.† What an ending.

That's my biggest concern. †I can live with the show ending, even though I'm very sad, I prefer shows to end while they are still popular rather than drag out. †That said, I have a sinking feeling that its not going to end well. †I want to buy the entire series, watch them for years to come and enjoy...

Is it just me or was some of the writing particularly Not Good...? †The breakup scene in particular....my sister who is not a huge fan, but does watch occasionally turned to me and said "wow the writing there was not good." †Very sad, it all seemed so contrived. It didn't fit, how do you go from "loving so much" to totally broken up....the script was just that, a script, it had no life and was almost as if the characters themselves couldn't figure why they were saying what they were saying...(if that makes any sense at all!). †Oh well, I'm spending way too much time analyzing a TV show... †:-\

I really hope the series finale does the show justice, that there is closure. †I love both Lauren Grahan & Alexis Bledel and the other actors/actresses. They've given so much to this show. †I hope the series finale honors them and is one they will be proud of. †


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: DeaDuchess on May 08, 2007, 08:12:18 pm
AHHHHHH! My episode of GG has just been interrupted by a special news report for a fire. I'm SOOOOO MAD!!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRR ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG  >:(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Heidi on May 08, 2007, 08:12:35 pm
Holy hell.

KTLA (The CW's affiliate in Los Angeles) just interrupted Gilmore Girls to show breaking news about the Griffith Park fire.  I'm not trying to make light of a terrible situation, but this is bad news for us ratings wise.   :-X

In seven years of watching the show, this is the only time I can think of this happening.

~Heidi


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 08, 2007, 08:13:52 pm
So what, she's going to magically skip the pining and smile for her graduation party? I mean, there's rushed Lorelai-and-Christopher-are-married-woops-they're-not and there's rushed. And they so love faking us out. And when Lorelai refused to advise Rory, I could almost see her letter from "Just Like Gwen and Gavin" hovering in the air. (Is that in the season finale? Please let that be in the season finale!)

What's happening with the fire?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: DeaDuchess on May 08, 2007, 08:14:33 pm
Holy hell.

KTLA (The CW's affiliate in Los Angeles) just interrupted Gilmore Girls to show breaking news about the Griffith Park fire.† I'm not trying to make light of a terrible situation, but this is bad news for us ratings wise.† †:-X

In seven years of watching the show, this is the only time I can think of this happening.

~Heidi

†I know that the fire is a big deal, but seriously. I've been waiting for this episode allll weeek. I'm really upset. They just keep talking. Make them stop Heidi Make them stop! I want to watch GG!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm getting really antsy and flustered the more the anchor talks! >:(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: HungryMuffin on May 08, 2007, 08:17:08 pm
Oh my god.. The episode just ended for me.

I knew she'd say no to Logan, but why do I feel weird about it? It's like, somewhere I feel she should've said yes. But, Lorelai thinks she made the right choice.
Luke seemed real upset about what Lorelai said. It will be interesting to see how they come together in the end.
They can't end the season. I have to know what happens to Rory. If she ends up with Logan at the end, if she ends up with someone else, or if she ends up alone. && What are they going to do with Luke && Lorelai? I read somewhere that the writer of this season said he was going to have them married at the end of the season. That's probably not going to happen now.
This was a crazy episode. This next one has to be something big.

I think the writing this hole season was a mess. Like, they bring up things that they drop that fast, they drag out every episode, && they've broken the plans that I'm sure the old writers had for them.

I still can't believe the show is over. =( I grew up a "Gilmore Girl". It's so sad to watch it end.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Heidi on May 08, 2007, 08:18:47 pm
Holy hell.

KTLA (The CW's affiliate in Los Angeles) just interrupted Gilmore Girls to show breaking news about the Griffith Park fire.  I'm not trying to make light of a terrible situation, but this is bad news for us ratings wise.   :-X

In seven years of watching the show, this is the only time I can think of this happening.

~Heidi

  I know that the fire is a big deal, but seriously. I've been waiting for this episode allll weeek. I'm really upset. They just keep talking. Make them stop Heidi Make them stop! I want to watch GG!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm getting really antsy and flustered the more the anchor talks! >:(

Wow. Wow. Wow. 

Again, I preface everything I say by acknowledging that this fire is terrible.  (I drove by it earlier today and it really is massive.)  But this is just bad, bad news for Gilmore fans.  I posted this just a little while again in the Great8Mandate thread ...

As I've said before, I am a Veronica Mars fan ... but let's be honest, we know what show has my true allegiance.  ;)

If there is to be any hope for season 8 (however small) ... Gilmore Girls needs to have had MONSTROUS ratings tonight.  HUGE.  Massive.  Colossal.  In addition, Veronica Mars, which airs right after our Girls, needs to have further dipped in the ratings department.

Start praying, rubbing your lucky rabbit's foot, tossing that penny into a fountain, whatever works for you.  Send out good vibes into the universe.   :clover:

~Heidi

If anyone hears when they'll re-air the episode, please let me know.

~Heidi


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: JillianLovesFood on May 08, 2007, 08:22:47 pm
Unfortunately also, GG's ratings were in perril tonight because the writing was a little off, AI was on, and a lot of GG fans are ticked about either Rory/Logan breakup or GG's cancellation that they might had decided NOT to watch this episode. Very sad to hear Heidi† :'(

It's like almost EVERYTHING was against this episode or GG tonight.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 08, 2007, 08:23:38 pm
Um, call me a tap dancing chicken (calling someone crazy is so last year) but I didn't think ratings had anything to do with whether or not the show had an 8th season. 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: DeaDuchess on May 08, 2007, 08:23:51 pm
Holy hell.

KTLA (The CW's affiliate in Los Angeles) just interrupted Gilmore Girls to show breaking news about the Griffith Park fire.† I'm not trying to make light of a terrible situation, but this is bad news for us ratings wise.† †:-X

In seven years of watching the show, this is the only time I can think of this happening.

~Heidi

† I know that the fire is a big deal, but seriously. I've been waiting for this episode allll weeek. I'm really upset. They just keep talking. Make them stop Heidi Make them stop! I want to watch GG!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm getting really antsy and flustered the more the anchor talks! >:(

Wow. Wow. Wow.†

Again, I preface everything I say by acknowledging that this fire is terrible.† (I drove by it earlier today and it really is massive.)† But this is just bad, bad news for Gilmore fans.† I posted this just a little while again in the Great8Mandate thread ...

As I've said before, I am a Veronica Mars fan ... but let's be honest, we know what show has my true allegiance.† ;)

If there is to be any hope for season 8 (however small) ... Gilmore Girls needs to have had MONSTROUS ratings tonight.† HUGE.† Massive.† Colossal.† In addition, Veronica Mars, which airs right after our Girls, needs to have further dipped in the ratings department.

Start praying, rubbing your lucky rabbit's foot, tossing that penny into a fountain, whatever works for you.† Send out good vibes into the universe.† †:clover:

~Heidi

If anyone hears when they'll re-air the episode, please let me know.

~Heidi
I am definitely not trying to deny that the fire is a HUGE deal. I know what it's like to lose your neighborhood to a fire. My neighborhood burned down in 2003 during the Lake Arrowhead/ San Bernardino fires.... It's really tragic. †I am just super dissappointed that The Gilmore Girls isn't on tonight, since we have been hyping up the episode all week and as you mentioned, the ratings tonight are a huge deal.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: mhmm on May 08, 2007, 08:24:18 pm

If anyone hears when they'll re-air the episode, please let me know.

~Heidi

You can try calling the KTLA station and ask them when/if they will re-air the episode. †I know its been done with other shows. †Not sure about primetime shows, but I know that soaps usually air the eppys late night if more than a half hour of it was interupted...so everyone in the LA area should try calling in and asking them and i'm sure the more calls they get the more inclined they will be to re-air the eppy either later tonight or sometime this weekend.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Sara on May 08, 2007, 08:34:25 pm
I am so mad Rory said no, they needed to end the series with at least one girls relationship worked out, and from seeing the preveiw for next week, I think that having both with their sole mates would have been perfect! Cant wait f or the big L&L kiss...hope david whats his face didnt screw up the SERIES (I hate typing that!) FINALE :-[  :-X  :-\  :'(  :'(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Heidi on May 08, 2007, 08:41:43 pm
Um, call me a tap dancing chicken (calling someone crazy is so last year) but I didn't think ratings had anything to do with whether or not the show had an 8th season. 

In my humble opinion, if the show still had its ratings of yesteryear the network could afford to offer the Girls even more money.  The network would be happy, advertisers would be happy, and who knows ... maybe the girls could have managed their grueling schedule for 13 more episodes had they been offered XX more money. 

Say what you want about scheduling conflicts, being tired, etc.  Higher ratings = more money.  More money gives you huge leeway do to what you want.

(This was just a general post of thoughts.  Not directed at anyone in particular.)  ;)

~Heidi


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GG3 on May 08, 2007, 08:43:53 pm
Is it considered a SPOILER to talk about the preivew for next week? 
I have a queston  about something I saw on it but do not want to do a SPOILER


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 08, 2007, 08:46:03 pm
Yes.  Previews are SPOILERS.  I believe there is a thread in the season 7 forum for previews and there's also the spoiler thread where your question would be appropriate. 

The caps weren't directed at you for asking (and thanks for actually taking the time to consider that they might be spoilers).


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 08, 2007, 08:46:28 pm
I am so mad Rory said no, they needed to end the series with at least one girls relationship worked out, and from seeing the preveiw for next week, I think that having both with their sole mates would have been perfect! Cant wait f or the big L&L kiss...hope david whats his face didnt screw up the SERIES (I hate typing that!) FINALE :-[  :-X  :-\  :'(  :'(

I know! I before e, except after c... headache. Thanks a lot, CW.

The news report, that's just for LA and the surrounding area right? I mean, three quarters of the country saw it four hours ago. What gets me is they don't count DVR viewings! I watch at broadcast time, I skip commercials the old fashioned way, by going to the bathroom or the kitchen. But I love cotton and kind of like Maybelline, and I'll never drive a car that weighs more than a pickup truck. Does that answer your question, Neilsen!?

Thanks for supporting AB, Dani I think it's just us...


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Lauren is my idol on May 08, 2007, 09:00:47 pm
This fire may also cause ratings to go down because since KTLA News interrupted GG, then a lot of the people went to go watch American Idol....I really wanted to see this epi! I agree with you Heidi...This fire is a big deal....BUT they interrupted GG :(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: nhiltner on May 08, 2007, 09:01:54 pm
Will someone explain exactly what happened on tonight's show because here in southern Calif. the show was preemted about 10 minutes in because of a fire in Griffith Park. Help!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: DeaDuchess on May 08, 2007, 09:07:49 pm
I (im)patiently waited through the whole hour on KTLA here in SO Cal just in case the episode came back on...but no luck. The fire is super tragic. I feel bad for all involved. I put in an email to Sam Ruben the entertainment anchor inquiring when they may re-air the GG.  I hope that they do.... :-[


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Burtnnator07 on May 08, 2007, 09:15:52 pm
 :wall: :fight:

Gah. Maybe I just have high expecatations because these are the final two episodes, but man, I thought that episode sucked.

*I'm not a R/L shipper, and I read spoilers so I knew they would break-up but wow, that was awful. I suppose it would be okay if that wasn't Matt Czuchry's exit. "Goodbye, Rory." So bad.

*Surprise! >:( Luke and Lorelai were again depressing because none of the old spark seems to be there.

*The episode just felt kind of disjointed and boring.

/non-spoilery promo rant
I have deliberately stayed away from spoilers for the last couple of weeks now because I wanted the finale to be a surprise. I'd like to send a big freakin' thanks to my best friend, the promo guy, for showing me the climax of the next episode. Gee, am I glad I suffered through avoiding spoilers. It's soooo worth it now.
/end rant

I know that's bitter, but I don't really care. I really wish I could just ignore the fact that this season existed, but then I've got season 6 as an ending and well, frankly that sucks too. Perhaps I'll buy the season 7 dvds and just chuck out discs 2-5. †>:(

I'm also kind of hurt that the fans are getting this kind of treatment. Don't we deserve some kind of thoughtful series finale? Not just a half-cocked excuse for one?

Props to Lauren and Alexis though for putting up with so much for GG. I just wish the network could have held out for ASP and ended the series properly †:'(.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: nhiltner on May 08, 2007, 09:28:45 pm
I didn't see the show because of the fire, but read a little about it. I am not upset that Rory said no to Logan. He was never right for her. First, he cheated on her with multiple girls and she took him back. Then, he botched his new job and lost money for the company. Rory is a winner. Logan is a loser, and she doesn't need to be with him. Remember the cute guy she got tongue-tied over a few episodes ago? I am surprised he hasn't shown up again and become a new love interest for Rory. I am so very upset this show is cancelled.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: DeaDuchess on May 08, 2007, 09:35:06 pm
anyone who missed tonight's episode of GG due to the fire in LA should email KTLA here http://ktla.trb.com/about/station/ktla-stationmanagement-email,0,5835532.htmlstory?coll=ktla-home-topnav and inquire about replaying the episode at a later time. The more we bug them the better chance we have!!nYou can also call 323-460-5500


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GGgirl4life on May 08, 2007, 09:35:52 pm
I'm sad. This is the second to last episode EVER and the episode seemed to lack those sparks between Lorelai and Luke. Plus, did Rory and Logan's break-up have to be so harsh? It felt like Logan was so cold-hearted and mean toward her. But the song for Rory was hilarious. Emily and Richard's singing was funny and it made the show seem a little cheerier tonight. I just hope the series finale is one of the best.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: JaymeSue on May 08, 2007, 09:37:57 pm
The episode tonight was really good. OK People, you knew that Rory was going to turn down Logan's proposal. It was all over the spoilers for this week so, this wasn't a big surprise for me to comprehend. IMHO, I really like Rory/Logan together as a couple and it would've been nicer to see them get engaged but, they are really too young yet to be stepping into a marriage. Lorelai isn't married so, why would they let Rory get married.

The scenes w/L/L could've been better. You can just see in both of them that they are still wanting each other so badly, it hurts. I think they are both afraid to make the next step or not sure how to approach the one another just to say, "I Love You". When Lorelai told Miss Patty/Babette that the karoke didn't mean anything, it really hurt Luke. You could just see it in his face. All of a sudden, he gave Lorelai the cold shoulder. Also, I watched as Lorelai was also hurt when Luke said, "Coffee to go" and she said, "How about a donut and a muffin to go w/it and after Luke brought the bag out and sat it on the table, Lorelai got this look of hurt in her face as well. They need to gt their act together so, why not give us a SEASON 8!! I would love to see these two get married, have a baby, etc. As for the promo's for next week series finale, I don't think were going to be disappointed.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 08, 2007, 09:39:24 pm
Recap Pt 1/3

After the thing with Lorelai and Sookie... Rory can't believe she's graduating and gets all sentimental about Paris packing up her stuff (after walking in on a sloppy kiss.) Paris is potentially a workaholic, but he loves her. She's so happy for them and she can't believe she's graduating.

Luke talks to Liz after he remarks on how different the garage looks housing a workshop instead of a boat, and he selects a pair of earrings to give to Rory. Amid protests that the SERENADE, which Liz can imagine clearly from the lengthy descriptions she's heard from half the town ("Half the town needs to get a hobby," Luke snaps) was just drunken Lorelai being drunken Lorelai, he also buys a necklace which coincidentally matches Lorelai's eyes as well as Rory's. And they mention Whitney, but not Dolly.

Liz doesn't let him pay, though.

Liz: After everything you've done for us?
Luke: No, no, I'll pay
Liz: After everything TJ's put you through?
Luke: Hey, thanks, that's really nice of you.

Me: LOL

Then, Lorelai goes to the diner as Luke is all aflutter, but he goes stiff when he hears Lorelai protesting to an overromantic pair of gossips that the song was just a song. And by the way, aren't they all invited to the graduation?

He quickly makes her coffee order "to go" and doesn't rise to her muffin vs. donut (was it donut?) musing, brushing it off with a cold but foreshadowy "Whatever you want." She's so hurt, she leaves her muffin and bagel on the counter as she dashes out.

Then she's on the phone with Rory, who tells her there's no way to get more than four tickets just now, she should have thought of that in September. Lorelai confides her hurt at Luke's cold shoulder, even though she didn't know what she wanted or expected. It's moot, she sighs, he doesn't feel that way anymore. Rory asks if she's okay, then there's a town council meeting. Kirk wants to hang over the town square in a transparent box. Lulu is supportive, Taylor objects on the basis that the tourist attraction would cause a parking crunch. The motion passes, and the town lets Kirk have his box.

Lorelai gets into a discussion about not being able to get tickets and Taylor (Being injured, drunk, and anxious to end the meeting so he can have it off with Miss Patty) admits the topic to the agenda. Lorelai begs forgiveness, promising to throw a party the weekend after graduation in the town square (two weeks from that day, catch the time shift?) The town quickly develops a (potentially annual) Reenactment of Rory's Graduation From Yale, insisting that Lorelai take all sorts of notes, minutes, and extra programs for accuracy. The legend lives!

I think there was a commercial, then Rory's grad party, the eve of her graduation. She and Christopher are okizzay, though Christopher wishes he'd been in on the "seeking the family's hand." And now they're divorced parents, how niche.

I can't remember the order much after the proposal, but there's a promo of Edward Hermann and Kelly Bishop singing a Rory-centric version of "You're the Tops!" as a graduation toast here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9g5K9Mvpzs)

Then Logan proposes, Rory needs to think, And Rory and Lorelai have a horse-drawn carriage ride on which Lorelai refuses to tip Rory either way.

Feel free to take it up, anyone, while I rewatch.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: CathyCoffee on May 08, 2007, 09:41:42 pm
This is my third post.
I keep coming up with new comments.

Why do they keep on messing up L&L?!
I mean, by now, can't they make them at least friends?
Normal friends?
Not akward fighting friends.
Rememeber in the 4th season when Luke actually confided in Lor about Nicole? I really miss those days.
And I KNOW that everyone will disagree with me here, but I think L&L where much better as friends.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE JavaJunkie. Thats the only reason why I kept up with the show at first, but they had less drama when they weren't involved.

And I thought it sooo out of character for Lor to not go after Luke in the diner.
And for Luke to look like that when she overheard Lor talking to B & Miss. Patty. He NEVER shows his emotions.

I agree with whoever said that DR just randomly wrote down lines without even CONSIDERING who the charcters are.
Seriously, does he want to be known as "the guy who ruined Gilmore girls"? Becasue he is sure heading down that path.

I am really holding a grudge against ASP, because she left there show in such a mess, that she must've known that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to bring it back to its entirety(sp??).

Gosh, I'm pissed.

The one good thing about this eppy was that it got me and my best friend talking again! We had been fighting for two weeks, and she texted me saying," You're the only one I can cry with about GG!"

I'll probably be writing back very soon!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 08, 2007, 09:41:54 pm
Honestly, I was not happy with this episode. I agree with Rory's decision not to marry Logan, just not with how he handled it. He grabbed the ring from her hand and practically stormed off. What was with that!!!!!


I thought it was RIGHT how Logan responded, considering.  I mean, what is he supposed to do? He went to great lengths, putting himself out there - they profess their love all the time. I am SO TIRED of this bs about a man turning into some qween for his woman - being a little patsy / doormat - and NOT asking for what HE WANTS. Where are all the REAL MEN? Well i think Logan was as good a representation as you will get from Gilmore Girls /  Gilmore Wusses....  No kidding. The men are all emasculated - and I liked Logan because he was not - i thought it was PERFECT that he wanted to make an honest woman of Rory AND even that he wanted to "rescue" her - there is nothing "wrong" with that - so Rory rejected him (idiot) but that does not make Logan wrong.

Yes, the traditional repsonse would have been some nice sweet civil goodbye - yeah, well that is a TV goodbye, ok? IN real life there is usualy much swearing, drinkking and throwing things. I LOVED his response. He was DEVASTATED and probably ready to CRY - plus peoople were WATCHING HIM take back the RING? Very sad, and HUMILIATING. Well, i guess i disagree with anyone who does NOT understand him "storming off" - in fact, he held his composure pretty well, but then, i forget myself, i have promised myself NOT to waste my precious REAL - REAL time on a VERY FAKE SHOW.  Sorry = i have all the DVDs too, but i mean, come on - way to RUIN IT.

I just hope these stupid writers don't work again - i would hate to get ripped off in yet another series.  I AM PRETTY FRIGGIN MAD.  >:(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: CathyCoffee on May 08, 2007, 09:45:54 pm
But he was SO out of character!
Logan is a beggar when it comes to Rory.
When they "broke up" in s5(?) he smothered her.

This is too grown up Logan.

But yes, at least it was better than swearing, and even MORE drama.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: gg4evr on May 08, 2007, 09:56:56 pm
Honestly, I was not happy with this episode. I agree with Rory's decision not to marry Logan, just not with how he handled it. He grabbed the ring from her hand and practically stormed off. What was with that!!!!!


I thought it was RIGHT how Logan responded, considering.† I mean, what is he supposed to do? He went to great lengths, putting himself out there - they profess their love all the time. I am SO TIRED of this bs about a man turning into some qween for his woman - being a little patsy / doormat - and NOT asking for what HE WANTS. Where are all the REAL MEN? Well i think Logan was as good a representation as you will get from Gilmore Girls /† Gilmore Wusses....† No kidding. The men are all emasculated - and I liked Logan because he was not - i thought it was PERFECT that he wanted to make an honest woman of Rory AND even that he wanted to "rescue" her - there is nothing "wrong" with that - so Rory rejected him (idiot) but that does not make Logan wrong.

Yes, the traditional repsonse would have been some nice sweet civil goodbye - yeah, well that is a TV goodbye, ok? IN real life there is usualy much swearing, drinkking and throwing things. I LOVED his response. He was DEVASTATED and probably ready to CRY - plus peoople were WATCHING HIM take back the RING? Very sad, and HUMILIATING. Well, i guess i disagree with anyone who does NOT understand him "storming off" - in fact, he held his composure pretty well, but then, i forget myself, i have promised myself NOT to waste my precious REAL - REAL time on a VERY FAKE SHOW.† Sorry = i have all the DVDs too, but i mean, come on - way to RUIN IT.

I just hope these stupid writers don't work again - i would hate to get ripped off in yet another series.† I AM PRETTY FRIGGIN MAD.† >:(


Likewise, I was fine with how Logan responded to Rory when she turned down the proposal.† This was such a great episode as we finally see Rory graduate from college-- that was a touching scene when Rory's name was called and Lorelai stood up to cheer her!!† And we finally had closure of the relationship between Rory and Logan.†



_______________________________

Vote for Gilmore Girls as your favorite TV show and let TV executives know what fans really care about!!† http://www.teavee.com/gilmoregirls/
Quote


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: kristylu27 on May 08, 2007, 10:15:03 pm
I cried almost through the whole epi.  It made it worse just knowing that it is the next to last GG show ever!  I was happy that Rory responded the way that she did,hoping that she would say that she just wasn't ready could he just wait.  On the other hand I was happy with the way Logan responded. He's finally grown up and taken responsibility, and Rory played a big role in that.  But now she wants to be independent and not settle, which is great for Rory.  Also, yay for the Yale graduate! It was so touching because it finally happened!  And Luke and Lorelai...I hope they settle some things before closing the book.  Overall this was a great episode!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 08, 2007, 10:19:45 pm
Recap pt 2/3

Anyway, then Lorelai takes a walk around the town square to process, and Rory goes home to spackle the walls so that Paris won't sue her for lost deposit money. Lorelai runs into a still-smarting Luke, who weighs in that if Lorelai were against the coupling, he would agree. Because Rory is young.

Lorelai takes the opposite position (for the sake of arguing, it turns out later) that there are some things that you can't know in advance you're ready for, and that she may never be "ready" if fear of choosing an option is motivating her decision.

Luke asks who she's talking about, surmising accurately that she thinks he will never be "ready" to marry her. She politely denies it, and he runs in to fetch Rory's earrings so she'll get them on graduation day instead of during the town's goofy reenactment. He briefly agonizes over the necklace he got for Lorelai, deciding not to give it to her.

She stares at the box for a moment before he explains it's for Rory, and she calls him "thoughtful."

Back at Rory's, she is alone packing and spackling. She has a bowl of cereal (dry to avoid incurring Paris's wrath by drinking the clearly marked reserve.) Then she tries on the ring and grins at it like a raven with a shiny thing as it sparkles.

After the commercial (I love cotton, the ad was surreal, though) It is graduation day, and Lorelai and Richard are getting along like naked frat boys while Emily tries to puncture the fun with friendly nagging about "helping" Rory make up her mind. Richard and Emily agree that "Unbearable Lightness of Being" Guy (finally got an obscure Gilmorism!) was a better writer than a speaker, and Richard openly admits he'd have preferred the Fonz. If in fact he knows who the Fonz is.

In the meantime, Paris is delivering the thesis of the episode to Rory. "We were buds, but now it's every woman for herself." Paris says sadly. "I haven't been able to get rid of you all this time, I think we'll be friends for a long time," Rory ripostes. "Who knows when we'll see each other again? You're going to do great things with your life, Rory Gilmore." Hug.

The G's are called to line up, and (I think this is important) Paris shouts "Once more UNTO the breach!" The quote is "into" the breach, as I'm sure Paris would have said if the show had been given one more year. The difference between "unto" and "into" is like the difference between "to" and "through." I get the weird idea the scene was shot both ways, making it Paris's "take a photo of me both ways so I don't have to sit through this" NUMBER 3. Call me crazy now.

Then Rory walks across the stage and cries instead of making funny faces, and ( in a much bigger display than all the other parents combined) Lorelai and Christopher stand and hoot for their daughter.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: erlend on May 08, 2007, 10:34:19 pm
I didnt wach the episode yet, im downloading it right now. So i might be out of place here, but i think that the negative response from Rory was the best. That was to sudden for all of them. Rory needs to have an independent life for a while. (And, i have to say, i was never sure if Rory was in love with Logan or not). If the girls learn something in the seven seasons of the show, is that the early engaments are not very good if theyīre to sudden (look Richard and Emiliy for instance: they finaly lost their daughter, and the experience of seeing little Rory grow up for a while) of course theyīre happy now, but no always was like that. Or even all the hurrys that Lorelai have regarding engaments: with Luke, Chris or even Max Medina in the early seasons...
Rory saying NO to Logan meens that she learn something all this seven years. Shows that Rory is probably the most mature, responsable and smart girl of the Gilmore clan.

(Excuse my lousy english)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 08, 2007, 10:35:44 pm
Recap Pt 3/3

After Rory turns her tassel (Plus I completely left out the recap of Lucy, Olivia, Paris and Rory chatting before they lined up) she lets Logan down gently. She's not ready to get married or settle on a location. He is. She wants to have her life wide open. He wants to take the next step. She wanted him to try to hang on until she was ready. He wanted it now. She gave him back his ring and he said goodbye.

Sorry it's a little dry, just trying to judiciously remove a bias.

Later, as Lorelai is helping Rory move the last of her tings out of the apartment "No more exercise, exercise is too hard." Lorelai groans. "Well, it wouldn't be hard if you exercised." Rory tells her mother about it and Lorelai finally admits she was against the marriage. Not because she was too young, but because she would find someone that would be the right guy and the right option for her, and she would know instead of wanting to hold back and be sure.

It was multilayered, but I'm not sure if she was talking about Luke or Christopher or even if it was meant as a setup for a reversal as Lorelai changes her mind about whether a person can say not now and not mean never.

And she can get her own house and have her own peanut tree and eat peanut butter all day. Except, college-graduate Rory points out, peanuts don't grow on trees.

The end.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: catshea on May 08, 2007, 10:40:29 pm
I CANNOT BELIEVE RORY SAID NO TO LOGAN!!!! I am 19, getting married next month, and 22 is so not too young to be married. Logan's right; it's pointless if she's not willing to take the next step. I can't believe this is the second to last episode, and she said no to Logan! Also, nothing happened with Luke and Lorelai! After they did the whole thing where April appears out of NOWHERE into Luke's life, and Lorelai marries Christopher out of NOWHERE, and ruin everything, you'd think they could put it together over the next SEASON not two episodes! I own seasons 1-5 on DVD, but I don't think I'll buy anymore if this is the way it is. So sad! I was hoping they would end the series with Rory in a prospective job engaged to Logan and Lorelai and Luke having been married and expecting a kid. So so sad. I am so disappointed. Is anyone with me?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: willowsprite on May 08, 2007, 10:42:52 pm
Watching this episode was like being with someone you love when you know they will soon be leaving you--I smiled when Sookie said 'if you want people to stay out of your business, don't serenade your ex in front of the whole town', I smirked when Taylor added Rory's graduation as a topic to the town meeting, my heart swelled with pride when Rory graduated, I thought -Oh no not now when Logan proposed at the party, I laughed when Richard and Emily sang to Rory, I shed a tear when Paris hugged Rory and said she was sure Rory would do great things. †I loved when Rory took the photos of Paris, and my heart was in my throat when she told Logan she can't get married. †I wanted to knock Luke and Lorelei's heads together over their stubborness. †And Kirk in a plexiglass box, well words fail me on that. †But threaded through it all was the knowledge that this is almost the end, and it tinged every moment with this sadness, I can't shake it even now. †I can't believe that whatever happens next week will be enough, that I will feel that it is a good end for these characters, these people I've grown to care so much about. †Of course, probably I'll never be ready to let go. I'm a mess, and can't imagine how I'll feel next week -- :P


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: amerikan_dreamer28 on May 08, 2007, 10:46:37 pm
I am super pissed off because of the Breaking News.  >:(

I waited and waited for this episode! This week has felt so long! I know the fire is a huge deal, but GILMORE GIRLS!!! I want to cry. Does anyone know where I can download it?

I really hate living in Southern California right now.   :-\


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: DeaDuchess on May 08, 2007, 10:51:02 pm
I am super pissed off because of the Breaking News.† >:(

I waited and waited for this episode! This week has felt so long! I know the fire is a huge deal, but GILMORE GIRLS!!! I want to cry. Does anyone know where I can download it?

I really hate living in Southern California right now.† †:-\
oh friend. I feel your anguish. I live in Irvine.... so you and I experienced the same problem. We need tons of people to call the station and ask for a replay..you can do so by calling 323-460-5500 also, you can email the station here: http://ktla.trb.com/about/station/ktla-stationmanagement-email,0,5835532.htmlstory?coll=ktla-home-topnav


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: september on May 09, 2007, 12:06:04 am
hello there,
I missed the part that Paris and Rory scene? can anyone tells me what did they say? did Rory said something about propose???

-tnX


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 09, 2007, 12:14:03 am
I'm editing out about half of this so if you people think it's long, you ain't seen nothing.

I really hate the whole "when it's the right guy, you won't hesitate" speech.  Sometimes, that might be true.  I know of a couple who met one day, got either engaged or maybe even married two weeks later and have been married for decades.  So, yeah, sometimes you know it, there's no hesitation.  But, I think it's a mistake to say that if you hesitate you're obviously not in love.  But, I do have to say there's some continuity, because it's similar to Lorelai's talk when she found out that Rory couldn't tell Dean she loved him.  Instead of telling her that maybe she didn't love Dean then, but that didn't mean she wouldn't ever love him, and that it was better not to lie about feelings she immediately jumped to wondering if she messed up Rory's ability to tell someone she loved him.  Actually, writing it out it doesn't sound that similar, but it does in my head.  Like if Rory isn't ready to jump, it means there's psychological damage or obviously the relationship wasn't meant to be.  So, I guess naturally deliberate, hesitant people are screwed in the marriage area, huh?  It was all done to facilitate the break up as the one right thing, and I guess she couldn't jump to tell Rory she was wrong at that moment, but it still feels like you jump or you're lost.

I have more to say (like some distinct objections and puzzlement to Rory's "wide open life" assertions) but I'll split it up for a later post.

What do you know?  It's short.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Heidi on May 09, 2007, 12:36:09 am
Screencaps are available here:  http://www.gilmoregirls.org/screencaps/episode721/index.html

I admit they aren't the best, but hopefully they're better than nothing for people who haven't yet seen the episode.

~Heidi


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Billie on May 09, 2007, 03:17:14 am
- The LL-talk in front of the diner: Great, I loved it.

- Now I do understand, why Rory couldn't give Logan the answer right away: He had time to think about, she didn't. He kind of rushed it and then even the "everything-or-nothing"-stuff... wow.... reminds me on another couple one year ago.....!!!!!
Strange, that now the roles are switched, right? But then - shouldn't Lorelai have much more understanding for Logan? Or even better - seeing Rory in Luke's position have much more understanding for HIM?? ??

- The party: Would "our" Emily *really* do such singing, in front of all those people? I highly doubt it. Very weired...

- When Rory is thanking the people "without whom she couldn't have done it" - would she think of Jess, without whose reproach she also (my point of view) wouldn't have made it??

- I didn't like the graduation scenes, loved the ones from Chilton back then better!!! The scene with the two girls (Olivia and forgot_her_name) were unneeded. Such scenes normally go to the "additional scenes"-stuff in the DVD-box. But, well, I forgot - we don't get any specials any more since S6. Thanks WB, by the way  >:(

- I loved the "Kirk_in_the_box"-thing!!! Very kirkish!!!

- Richard: "Bill Clinton, wonder if he records books on tapes..."  :D :D :D

- Did you notice the rack in the garage, where one shelf didn't fit (too small)? So cute!!! So TJish....  ;D

And - I LOVE it when they do German words in English: Emiliy: "I am schwitzing".... this is soooo funny!!!!! We do this a lot, my son plus my friend and me, we call this lanquage "denglish" (deutsch (german) and english).


One question - do you think we will see Mrs. Kim again? I'm missing her!!!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: rory101 on May 09, 2007, 03:51:25 am
I am kinda glad that Rory turned Logan down, b/c they are so young and if she said yes then she would have to move away from her mom and Luke and everyone from the Hollow. I am so MAD that they are ending it next week. im gonna cry b/c i love this show. it seems that they are ending all the good shows. but oh well.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: javajunkie93 on May 09, 2007, 03:59:55 am
I know...:( I was just thinking what a shame it is. All these other ending shows got this big hooplah - Will and Grace, Friends, Everybody Loves Raymond - not Gilmore Girls, which deserves the biggest hooplah of all!
Oh. My. Effing. God. Next week? AHHH!
I'm glad Rory said no, but again, they made it so it seemed insiginificant somehow. Bugged me. I liked seeing Lucy and Olivia, though, and it was sad when Lorelai was crying during the ceremony. I also thought they did the Lorelai/Chris thing REALLY well, better than I'd thought - it was tastetful and not annoyingly fighting, it was good.
I felt so bad for poor Luke, hearing her say it meant nothing! You totally saw his face fall. :( And I was like NO!!! when he didn't give her the necklace. That was sad. Did you notice how for a second she thought the earrings were for her? LOL.
Kirk in a box. Nothing more must be said.
Made.
My.
Day.
I can't wait until next week, but I'm also SO sad to know that it's ending.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: baileysmit on May 09, 2007, 04:02:43 am
that eppy was awesome..................i missed when Rory and Logan broke up because i was crying soooooo hard


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: purpleflippers on May 09, 2007, 04:57:16 am
ok, i know for certain now, i am going to be hysterical next week!!!!!!!!!!!! i started crying when Richard and Emily sang Rory a sing, and i calmed down just in time to start crying when the girls walked arm in arm to the line for graduation. then i calmed down on time to start crying over Paris telling Rory she would do great things, and hugging, i don't think i stopped after that!!!! Richard telling Lorelei the graduation was as much for her as for Rory, Lorelei being the only person standing for a minute, although i was expecting Rory to make a face like she did at the Chilton Graduation.† Then, Rory telling Logan no (the right answer, but still sad).....and then, Why did she have to pause before turning the light off?????? I went into hysterics at that point!!!! and the preview for next week made it worse!!!!!!!†


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: uncledub on May 09, 2007, 05:06:10 am
well, hmm, i never read spoilers but if i have my predictablity from the writers channeled in right i know what is going happen with the fate of luke & lorelei and rory & logan. i think however they did a terrible job at it if they were going for doing the ubersetback episode to have the ending be the uberhappy episode.
i said in the thread of "lorelei, lorelei" that rory & logan is way to young to get married and it's damn true. however should it have led to this? not really
i will still not give a rats arsed about the fate of luke and lorelei, so ye. kirk in the box, damn funny idea, but the idea fell flat.
Liza Weil looked beautiful with her hair like that in the graduation sequence. what else, best line of episode "After everything TJ's put you through?".
I thought the scenes with Christopher would get into the higher state of awkwardness, glad that it didn't. What else,,,, oh yeh, the intro with the mnemonic device thing was pissfunny


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: gilmoregirlfan4 on May 09, 2007, 05:26:28 am
So I am a Rory/Logan fan and I am alright witht he no, but i wish they didn;t break up. That just kinda sucked lol.  They should hav made a bigger deal about it I mean I didn't want to spoil rory graduation but you think that breakign up with your boyfriend of 3 years youd cry or something or show more emotion. I dont know Rory and Lorelai seemed to calm about it. I knew Lorelai knew that Logan was going to ask her but still it seems like it should have been a bigger deal.

purpleflippers I was doing the same thing you were. I couldn't stop crying esspecially after she paused before turning off the light.
also i was cring when she put the ring on when she was spacklying (sp?). I read the spoilers and knew that she was gonna say no but for a second there i thgouht that she was going to say yes.

Also I loved the talk between Lorelai and Luke about marriage and whne Lorelai said "After all this time how can you not know". and thne Luke goes inide he should have given her the necklace!!!! ergg.

Ok so I dont know how many people agree with me here but i don't think that they should have shown Luke and Lorelai kiss in the finale. I know most of us knew that was going to happen cuz its the lat episode ever but still I dont think they should have shown in. Anyway thats my opionon (?) off to watch it again.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Fantasy on May 09, 2007, 05:42:22 am
I'm doing heavy screening of posts.† I'm not reading anyone's posts unless I have a good idea they won't make me want to shoot the monitor.†

So, Ausiello, or whatever crackpot wrote the description, this is your idea of bittersweet?† Bitter, yes.† Where's the sweet?† All the fake booze and drugs in the world didn't help this episode.† I don't buy that Logan wouldn't try a long distance relationship.† To me, this wasn't about what Logan would do, but just a slap dab way to break them up.† The writers wrote the lines without considering the characters.† And, I'm watching House now, which has to be better, what with dying patients and cranky (hot) doctors and drug addictions.† So, I'll continue the tirade later.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I so agree. I can't take this anymore. (But hey, now he is single for me. ::Sighs::.) Where the hell is the sweet? OOO! L/L back together, like we didn't already know that would happen. PUHlease DR. Logan wouldn't propose to a girl and then be all "Fudge you" when she says she wants to be with him but not be married. STUPID EPISODE!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 09, 2007, 06:09:26 am
I CANNOT BELIEVE RORY SAID NO TO LOGAN!!!! I am 19, getting married next month, and 22 is so not too young to be married. Logan's right; it's pointless if she's not willing to take the next step. I can't believe this is the second to last episode, and she said no to Logan! Also, nothing happened with Luke and Lorelai! After they did the whole thing where April appears out of NOWHERE into Luke's life, and Lorelai marries Christopher out of NOWHERE, and ruin everything, you'd think they could put it together over the next SEASON not two episodes! I own seasons 1-5 on DVD, but I don't think I'll buy anymore if this is the way it is. So sad! I was hoping they would end the series with Rory in a prospective job engaged to Logan and Lorelai and Luke having been married and expecting a kid. So so sad. I am so disappointed. Is anyone with me?

BLESS YOU ! YOU ARE MY HERO!  No guts, no GLORY, Babe - you are SO RIGHT to marry when you LOVE the person, and screw the "AGE" of unenlightenment. Rory is brainwashed.

Looky here kiddies - i am FIFTY-FIVE years old, and actually a very hip person. I had a hip career, and i still write and write music/songs.  I traveled all over. Rode Harleys around America. I have no husband, no kids, i own Harleys, and Gibsons and Martins and and Alvarez too - i play blues harp. I am NOT yer gramma, ok?  So you should listen to ME you younguns.  Love may come to you BUT ONE TIME in your life - there is not an endless supply of LOVE - forget Gilmore Girls - that is FANTASY LAND. Do you ladies have any idea how many psychotic people abound?  Logan is, let's see - From money. Smart. Caring. A Man (gasp) Mature (we watched him mature, and Rory DID THAT - DUUUH, RORY!) He is resourceful, comes from a resourceful powerful family. He learned to be FAITHFUL. Let me pause there. Men are NOT born faithful, i hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Any young girl (or young guy) out there who is applauding Rory - is too young to actualy understand.  I also know young people who got married and are FINE. Life is SO very difficult. Please, if you find a man /a woman to love - don't say, "Oh, but Rory had her career first" - OK? PLease don't let your reason get clouded because you don't know where Gilmore Girls ends and LIFE begins.

I AM GOING TO WRITE MY OWN SCRIPT of how it should have ended and POST IT SOMEWHERE so we can all have the happy ending we want -put a  FORK in ROSENTHAL - IDIOT.

I am telling you, Rory turning down Logan has nothing to do with anything intelligent - all it does is expose the CARDBOARD SKELETON and THIN AIR GUTS of the team currently behind Gilmore Girls.  Look, these people are falible humans - I could DO BETTER - i could. I have, in my lifetime.

Going off with Logan WAS the thrilling, adventurous, crazy, BOLD spontaneous thing to do! DUH - For Rory to accept and just - GO - that would have been outside her comfort zone - BUT NO, the stupid writers will keep her locked in "unrequited - i need my career - let's look over the next horizon, as long as there are books there" BULLSNOT!  This is just VERY BAD WRITING, ok? Please oh please YOUNG ONES, don't make of Rory some folk hero who "followed her own voice" - you are way to young to understand that the writers did a quite passable job of getting those two to that point - for that much i do applaud them. But THEN, to just completely toss that - to ruin it and be so UNTRUE. That was NOT truth.  In Real Life - that girl would have been thrilled to go the next chapter with him.  Forget "long distance" and "can we try this" oh BARF BARF BARF.

Paris said it "YOu are Annette Benning! YOu landed the whale! (Warren Beatty) YES! Paris was RIGHT! Rory was THE ONE.

Hey, what about Logan, does no one care about Logan? He is not gonna just bounce back from this. He will probably go on to be a cheater, a drunkard, some loser who just uses women because that was THE WORST HEART BREAKING i ever saw some stupid woman pull off.  IT WREAKED OF "LET'S REALLY HEAT UP THE FORUM!"

See, the writers don't care, they don't even know the characters or love them as we do! It is just a job, maybe they even hate the whole thing. I say this BECAUSE any writers who CARED could not have done that to those two characters - exile them to "unrequited-ville"

Oh sure, Rory will just have a boatload of suitors, RIGHT? WRONG, kiddies - i was enuf like Rory (smart, beautiful, captivating spirit) to know - men adored me - from afar though, because i seemed untouchable. Rory was SO LUCKY to find Logan, who was NOT threatened!  I am going on about this becasue i feel this is a serious topic for girls.

OK, - tell me, those who feel Rory did the RIGHT THING - tell me WHY! - and not some lame*ss reason like "She has to follow her career" - that is NOT the right answer, since Rory is floundering, and could just work at ANY PAPER now.  I am a writer and guess what - i don't need a brick and mortor community! I can live ANYWHERE and do what i do!  So can Rory.  No no, you must give me REAL LIFE reasons why.  I mean, we know she loves him, she says so... he fits all criteria anyone in her life would want, so - in keeping with the SCRIPTS of the show - explain to me WHY she had LOGIC behind her refusal - if you can.

WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM WITH HIM AGAIN?

Ok GO - and i will promptly debate you and show any reason to be FALSE.  Remember, we can't say, "She did not really love him" becasue in the script she did. We also cannot say, "She is too young" since 22 is plenty old enuf - she is legal age, she is out of school, so you CANNOT arbitrarily say a 22-year old person is not old enuf to marry.That argument would not fly. PLUS - PLUS and this is huge - a woman's fertility is only high when she is at the start of her reproductive life - a woman's fertility goes down every few years, you know. So, to say, "I wanna wait, and have kids at 40" = GOOD LUCK!

DISCLAIMER: I must here interject that i am favor of childbearing ONLY through marriage - i am not in favor of a girl just decidiing to get pregnant on her own. I am talking about childbearing ONLY in the context of marriage. What i mean is, if Rory wants babies, and she loves Logan, then she has a better chance to get pregnant in her younger decades - rather than her older ones. Please do not misinterpret this in any way.  Thank you.

CATSHEA - i say again, YOU ARE MY ADVENTUROUS, COURAGEOUS HERO to just go with your heart and marry - i mean, it is ALWAYS a crapshoot - whether you are nineteen or 59 - there are NO guarentees - better to take the next step than to be a COWARD - which is what Rory is = RORY IS A COWARD and nothing more.

Sorry, little Rory lovers who feel Rory should remain this little girl frozen in time, but I HAVE LIVED ALL THOSE DECADES - i know. I know because i was there already....   I was the free spirit - who looked around one day and realized i had a career and money and lots of things - but no PERSON.  I followed every whim except to find a PERSON - until i was older - when all the good men are married or in their divorces and bitter - I WISH i would have found a man when i was young, but i matured slowly in that department, ok?  I was not even "active" until i was 23 years old. For Rory to develop that far and then - CUT IT OFF? No, that' wrong. Stupid.  Again i say BAD WRITING.

Do not let a poorly written show cause you to return a lovely diamond some day when you are 22 and the man of your dreams is before you. That is all i hope for you young teenagers.  Listen to Granny Hip over here.... LIfe is TOO SHORT.  :P Ok, i need coffee - and an enema maybe... Oh, sorry, wrong thread...

HELP ME i am having GG withdrawal already!  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: loganluvr on May 09, 2007, 06:11:52 am
I loved this episode. When Logan proposed to Rory it made me cry. Emily and Richard singing was just kind of odd.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Devilina07 on May 09, 2007, 06:33:43 am
I'm doing heavy screening of posts.  I'm not reading anyone's posts unless I have a good idea they won't make me want to shoot the monitor. 

So, Ausiello, or whatever crackpot wrote the description, this is your idea of bittersweet?  Bitter, yes.  Where's the sweet?  All the fake booze and drugs in the world didn't help this episode.  I don't buy that Logan wouldn't try a long distance relationship.  To me, this wasn't about what Logan would do, but just a slap dab way to break them up.  The writers wrote the lines without considering the characters.  And, I'm watching House now, which has to be better, what with dying patients and cranky (hot) doctors and drug addictions.  So, I'll continue the tirade later.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.
To be fair, Logan who was turned down by someone who gave no indication that she never wanted to marry him and seemed to agree to include each other in their future plans ('Hay Bale Maze') I would say that Logan is hurt more than anything else.  Perhaps if the show had gone on a little longer we would have found that they could have worked things through.  Last night we were shown a young man who wanted his girlfriend to be his wife.  Being turned down because "life is so open right now" is cause enough to have Logan walk away.  I do believe that they could or would have reconciled.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 09, 2007, 06:39:48 am
REGARDING LOGAN DOING LONG DISTANCE.

I thought it was RIGHT for Logan to not just say, "Ok, we will do LD then." People, ladies, you have to look beyond the scene, ok? You have to consider all the momentum Logan had, all the planning, all the resolution to just "do it" - to take Rory as a wife.  This was a huge step, esp. for "Warren Beatty" - so Logan has all this momentum, he is planning to be a married man - he wants to PROGRESS - PROGRESS, not go back - heck, at least the writers put that part in - "I don't wanna go backwards" - BINGO!

Here is an analogy that might help.  I was dating this manslut, ok? He - cheated.  Well, finally, we got more serious, and he had been faithful for a while, which is a joke, since either you are all faithful or not, you can't be "sorta faithful"  Wel, moving along... One day, after we had been getting along well (i had realy fallen in love with him, unfortunately) he "slipped" again.  At that very moment when i found out, i cut it off forever, never spoke to him again.  You see, after having a glimpse of how good we really were together, i was NOT willing to take a step back and be "one of the girls" again - it was beneath me, it made me feel bad - sad, depressed, used... many things.

YOu have to get inside Logan's head - if you think he should have opted to do the LD thing for a while, then you have failed to understand the TRUTH of the moment.  I absolutely agree with Logan.  See, WE - us, the viewers - WE want him to say, "Oh, ok, we will try the LD thing"  Because then we get everything we want - our cake and eat it too.    But for Logan this would be a false response.  He was correct - it would be going backwards.  To a time when you had to use the phone and text messages - like highschool.  It would NOT be Rory and Logan starting a new chapter, rather it would be some watered down, loser relationship.  Logan actually showed enormous courage to walk away - to say, "No, this is what we should be doing now - we should be getting married, after 3 years.  We love each other and we are not teenagers - this is the next step in maturity"

I have to say, i am so locked down on this thing - i so very much agree that Logan was right to just cut it off.  NOW THEN. I could see this.... I could see one of them finding out they can't live apart from the other, and making some new appeal. Yes, that i would buy. Such as.

SCENARIO ONE: Logan shows up and asks Rory again to drop her dawdling and marry him (but not do the LD - that is being a weener and settling and letting Rory lead him by the nose - NOT GOOD for any man, sorry)
SCENARIO TWO: Rory comes to her senses and find Logan and says, "If you stil want me, i have come to my senses - i want to marry you, will you take me back."

Well, see, this is the "dream" i will tell myself IF i ever wanna watch my DVDs again. I don't even know. I MAY need to just - stop - just leave Gilmore Girls by the side of the road, with that cheating boyfriend of mine. I mean, it was the right thing to do - drop him forever. That was the courageous thing to do - just give up, knowing he would never give me what i wanted.

Ok, now you know my gory details....

ADDITION: I see people here agreeing on parts of what Logan did, etc. I think the sad part is the show is ending, so we can't see if L/R come back together. People do that too - walk off in a huff, then reconsider. That could happen - ANYTHING can happen, of course. But all we have is what the show gives us. People may be sad that the L/R thing was not left more "open-ended" - but what would that accomplish that WE cannot think ourselves? I mean, unless someone dies, there is always a reconciliation in the future - that COULD happen. I almost got back together with my Ex-husband. We discussed it, and he said, "I think i wanna come back then" but then i said, "Well, let's just wait a minute here...." and my hesitation showed him that it was too late. BUT - we talked about it.   So, i mean to be technical about it, if i wanna "pretend" that Logan and Rory end up better than me and my boyfriends - i can do that - whatever gets you thru the night.

On that note - I HAVE A LIFE - and so maybe it is good that GG is ending? Maybe after 7 seasons of being passive / aggressive with a silly TV show - i can finally go on that big TELEVISION FAST that i have been wanting!  Yes!

As for Luke and Lorelai - i had become so engrossed in the Rory Logan story, that L/L is almost anti-climactic for me. It realy is, because Rory is the one who could have a happy life - a happy life that is full of love INSTEAD OF full of bad deadend dates.

Oh, THE WORST LINE of that whole show was of course Lorelai's speech to Rory at the end. "One day, it will just seem right, and you will know" OH BOOOGHWAH! Lorelai - have you gone INSANE? First off, Lorelai should be BANNED from giving "love advice" - to ANYONE. She is a train wreck in that department! Secondly, she cannot say that! Rory may NEVER MARRY and NEVER LOVE again. Yes, folks, it could happen that way.  I KNOW PEOPLE who got a broken heart, got guilted, whatever, and just stopped. I knew a guy - he got his heart broken - boom that was it - he would NEVER go on another date. He just had his life - alone, with his other persuits, hobbies, music, etc. But women - were a thing of the past.

It can happen, and Lorelai is too stupid about love and relationships to talk to anyone, i just had to repeat that....

OK, i think i may have to extricate myself - no kidding. This maybe be like a bad bad break-up .

I AM DREADING NEXT TUESDAY - JUST DREADING IT. Unless they have Rory reconsider, then nothing in that eppy would make me happy - L/L - Sorry, that is such old news to me now - come on, admit it= OTHERS of you are secretly thinking this too! Who will be fearless and come forward with me -ANYONE?

Thanks again. I prefer Asparagus to Tomatoes, btw - when you throw things...

I LOVE YOU ALL - I ENJOY THIS SO MUCH - THANK YOU.  Are we gonna continue posting and rewatching and all? I am serious about writing scripts. Maybe i will write a pilot for a SPIN-OFF with Rory and Logan. Yeah!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: rory101 on May 09, 2007, 07:01:48 am
Honestly i almost cried when Rory graduated, b/c it was like you went through it too. We all have been there since season 1 when she started Chilton, and i cried when she graduated there too. She made the right desicion about Logan. I wish they would have another season, just so they can completely end the Luke and Lorelai thing. They need to get back together. but i cant wait to see the KISS!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 09, 2007, 07:38:21 am
I am kinda glad that Rory turned Logan down, b/c they are so young and if she said yes then she would have to move away from her mom and Luke and everyone from the Hollow. I am so MAD that they are ending it next week. im gonna cry b/c i love this show. it seems that they are ending all the good shows. but oh well.

Hello, i know many of you are young, but i wil try again...

My Dad saw my Mom first in a cow barn, milking a cow.  I am writing a story about them, so i won't give a way all the details, BUT - it was love at first sight. They married and had a child, then my dad went to war, but on a merchant ship that supplied the troops - he made it all the way to the other side of the world.

My Dad was only 21 and my Mom was 23 and they married and survived the war and great poverty, and raising 4 kids in a tiny house, and they were NOT too young. They used their youth and vitality to grow together, to stay positive, and to work hard to make a life. They were not jaded and divorced and there was no "family blending" necessary - they were the purest expression of love i could ever see - they are the reason i have a spirit that draws people to me - all types of people. I am so very lucky to have that always in my heart.

What Rory did had no basis in logic. There is a huge difference between 15 or 16 and - 21 or 22.  Really, kids, there is. You do mature a lot in those years. I know some of you younguns may be responding as you would in YOUR OWN HEARTS. But when you are in your early 20's you will see that - it does not every get easier, ok? It is always some part gamble, some part hard work, some part luck, and all parts LOVE, Devotion, commitment. You can be a committed person at 21, as my Dad was - if you have such great character.  And then, some people will NEVER have that character.  AGE is not the proper measuring stick. It has to do with guts, commitment, belief in the right things, honesty, and what you want from life.  If Rory never wanted marriage, then in my opinion, she should have broken it off with Logan - LONG AGO, because only an idiot would not see that she was changing him, and causing him to commit to HER - and her alone. Only a completely stupid woman would be blind to that. And Rory is not stupid.  No, i think Rory is simply brainwashed by her Mother's bad choices with men. And she is a coward.

Sorry, but this one is on RORY.  IMO.

HI = i had to edit this because i goofed up and was responding to a different quote - i realized my mistake and deleted a section of my post. SORRY.

I mean, if you want a career and that comes first, then you may as well say, "don't ever get married" - is that what people are saying then? If that is true, then i am more depressed for this country than i ever was...   Sorry, but this is really bumming me out.

i think i will NOT BUY more DVDs. = I have to punish the bad writing and NOT give them any more of my MONEY or TIME. I will also try very hard NOT to get involved in any other series. Not worth it.

Timk - you are there somewhere?  WE should talk.

I want to keep reminding all of you, i am 55 and i made my love mistakes, and tel you what - adventures alone are fantastic, BUT, to have no one to share with - it gets very very old. And I had all that Rory had, and somehow i ended up alone in the end.  So, please stop diluding yourself that any woman can just ring a bell when she is "ready" to get married (old enuf, career enuf, whatever) and all these lovely men will come rushing in and she just picks one and gets a big rock and so on... OR she finds  her "Steadman" - Oprah found steadman - not rory, and maybe not you!  Think about it.............   Marry for LOVE, i say, not on some arbitrary timetable.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: haileyerin on May 09, 2007, 07:43:35 am
Oh, THE WORST LINE of that whole show was of course Lorelai's speech to Rory at the end. "One day, it will just seem right, and you will know" OH BOOOGHWAH! Lorelai - have you gone INSANE? First off, Lorelai should be BANNED from giving "love advice" - to ANYONE. She is a train wreck in that department!


Didn't anyone make the connection between her advice and her situation? It took Lorelai a while to realize her feelings for Luke, but when she decided that she wanted to marry him, she asked. She didn't hesitate. She just knew. The only thing that held her back was that she and Rory had not made amends. When they finally did, she continued to be ready to get married. She just knew. She's ready.

She just knows. No, we won't get a wedding, but we'll probably be left with the "she's ready" sentiment... and isn't that all we really ever wanted to begin with?

Hailey


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 09, 2007, 07:49:35 am
Hailey

I read your post, but i guess i don't see the logic here. Lorelai messed everything up with Luke, one way or another. How does that make her able to tell Rory what to DO?  Consider this Hailey - maybe Rory is just following in L's bad footsteps, hesitating, breaking engagements in a way - you know, you CAN start to believe that it is NEVER RIGHT. That is what they call cold feet.  I have to think on this more. but i have to get the bank right now.. LATER.

IF Lorelai "just knows" then why did she marry Christopher. I am sorry to say i find flaws in your logic, and i say that with utmost respect for you as a person. Thank you for your response to me.  Later on this........

NOTE: i am trying to key off of what i saw in the script.  Rory seemed SO in love with Logan, taking him back before, working thru ALL THINGS. I mean, if that is not a SIGN that he is the one - then i don't get it.  What MORE does Rory want?  Does she require GOD to come down with an engraved invitation.

Lorelai may be wrong - maybe you don't "just know" - maybe we are past that now in this ridiculous society with so much NOISE coming at us and idiots like "Uncle Phil" telling us how to be mean, rude, and overcontrolling to other people and also showing us the worst of the worst of peopl! YOu look at that footage and you think - forget it NOT ME, i am not gonna marry some guy..... Maybe the era of good hookups is OVER? Well, maybe that's the case. GG seems to be proving that.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: laurla205 on May 09, 2007, 07:57:45 am
Oh, wise zeddie ;).† Such a mistake Rory made.† Now that Iíve slept off the hangover I canít decide who Iím more upset with, Rory or the writers for creating this unpleasant situation.† Itís very much a doubled edged sword.† I can completely understand where both of them came from but it did not need to go down this way.† Not at all.† Logan put himself out there, he was ready to take the next step with this woman who meant the world to him and made everything worthwhile (one of the sweetest, most heartfelt proposals Iíve ever heard BTW).† He was truly committed in every way and that is incredibly admirable, not everyone can say that about themselves even when they believe they are committed.† He had everything planned out; maybe that is where he went wrong.† I donít know that there was any other choice for him once she said no.† Yes, I would have liked any of the other options, but once you have proposed and someone says Ďno but letís keep datingí, as Logan said whatís the point?† If a proposal has been turned down that means the relationship is not going to evolve past its current state, itís not going anywhere because a no is a no.† What makes it worse is that Rory does love him and she did imagine herself possibly being married to him one day.† Since that is the case and heís standing before you saying now or never you say now, honey.† You say yes I want to spend the rest of my life with you because I love you but letís have a long engagement so we can get settled first Ė I cannot fathom why she didnít say something along these lines other than the writers wanted these two broken up.† I could name a million other things she could have said but Iíll stop there.† Logan will be devastated, I agree.† I donít see him bouncing back from this one quickly at all.† Everything he thought his life was, is over.† All he will have left is his job if he can even concentrate enough to complete his tasks as he should.† At least he is moving 3000 miles away so there will be few reminders of her.† Hopefully he doesnít rent that house with the avocado tree, ugh.†

In a way I understand Rory not wanting to commit.† I really do, the world is her oyster and that can give a person a false sense of empowerment.† While I understand her wanting to have as many options as possible I donít see how committing to Logan closes any doors.† I donít see how she sees that it closes doors.† And I certainly donít understand her not running after the man she loves when he walked away.† What are you doing letting him walk out of your life??† Whatever is out there for her will not be as sweet because she will not have Logan to share it with, that is the simple truth, Lorelai will not be a substitute for that.† He brightened her life in so many ways no one else could.† And while I like the analogy of him telling her they should jump again I do think Lorelaiís Ďjumpingí and the consequences of it influenced Rory which is sad.† Did Rory learn nothing from Luke?† Her supposed father figure.† When the person you want to spend your life with is asking you to spend your life with them you canít back out in fear of the unknown.† You have to be strong and listen to your heart, the heart that was making her smile when she tried the ring on.† She may very well never find a love to match this one.† But she may.† It could go either way but no, love does not come knocking as often as we like to think it does.† I think it was too early for Lorelai to say something along those lines, but it is a comfort line fed to every woman coming off a bad break up so I canít blame her.† As far as telling Rory she did the right thing, that was not good.† Not good at all, you donít say that to someone so soon either.† Number one, because you will be eating those words for the rest of your life if they get back together.† Number two, after how badly she wanted Lorelai to give her the answer, Lorelai agreeing with her decision so soon after it was made taints her advice from here on out.† If Rory does decide she canít bear life without Logan and wants to go back to him she will always have Lorelaiís voice in the back of her mind saying she did the right thing.† It could, of course, be seen as a mother trying to comfort her child but she could have gone about it in a better way.† There is a way to make someone feel better about this type of decision without agreeing with everything they did.†

Lifeís short, get a divorce, anyone hear about this?† Sort of fits the situation - life is short donít waste time on love.† Well maybe not, but it makes sense to me.† This post OTOH (howís that for acronym usage?) is not the least bit short, I am aware of that.†

Aside from this glaring black mark I did like the episode.† The Sookie and town scenes were good.† I liked the resolution between Lorelai and Christopher but that will be saved for another thread so as not to make this post any longer.† I wonder if heís invited to Lorelaiís graduation party for Rory?† Emily and Richard, I found endearing, especially the song and didnít think that was horrible or tacky.† I thought it was cute and above and beyond for them which is only fitting for Rory.† Lorelai and Luke, eh, they have also gone by the wayside, zed but they werenít front and center to me for long to begin with so thatís not saying much.†


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: conradv on May 09, 2007, 07:59:26 am
Well, it was an interesting episode to say the least.  It was rushed, there are SOOOO many loose ends that won't be tied up in the season finale.

I'm a little discouraged that 7 years worth of plot lines will each be "ended" in about 10 minutes each.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Ggirlfan on May 09, 2007, 08:00:05 am
The only problem with the logic of getting married if you also both want careers is what actually happened to me. †I married my high school sweetheart after I graduated from college (23) and got a job right away in my career. †My then husband decided his career shortly after. †Our careers took us in two totally different directions, and we ended up growing apart and divorced. †I suppose the issue over career/marriage is pretty much based on personal experience, because everyone has experienced different situations. †What I have learned from my experience is that you need to figure out what YOU want in life first before you are able to share it with someone else!


I just want to edit my post to say that I am still upset that Rory and Logan broke up.† I think its a shame they couldn't have at least tried to stay together, but just put the marriage thing on hold.† I give Logan credit for what he did, but I agree that Rory was not ready to rush into marriage right now.† And don't get me started on the fact that the writers did this and now the last episode is next week.† Now we won't know what could have been† :(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: rebecca1280 on May 09, 2007, 08:13:44 am
I am so angry that Rory did not accept Logan's propsal! :-X :-X :-X  I just loved them together and that episode last night made me so mad. 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: rebecca1280 on May 09, 2007, 08:20:08 am
I don't think I can express how mad I am about Rory not accepting Logan's proposal.  The writers just messed up the whole Gilmore Girls show!  It was enough when they ruined Lorelei and Christopher's marriage, now this!!!  No one is ending up with whom I wanted and it is just a mess!! 

I am pissed!  Why I take this so personally, I do not know but I do and it just sucks.  I would have said yes to Logan.  What a hottie, good guy, just perfect!

Oh Rory, what have you done!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: jamhandsmom on May 09, 2007, 08:25:05 am
Well, this episode definitely felt like a wrap-up episode. Last week's did too, to some extent.

Sookie's comment about not publicly serenading Luke if she didn't want the whole town involved was pretty funny. Did Lorelai forget that she lived in Stars Hollow?

Lorelai in the diner--Luke should know better than to take anything seriously that Lorelai is saying to Babette and Miss Patty...what was she going to say? "Yes, I love Luke and I'm hoping we can work things out"?

Emily/Richard--I loved the song, but it seemed VERY un-Emily.

Logan/Rory--I honestly was expecting a much more grandiose proposal from the king of grandiose, I thought the proposal would be his crowning achievement. It was sweet though.

Chris/Lorelai--Sweet.

Paris--What the heck? They've gone back and forth between best friends and bitter enemies for 7 years, and that was the extent of their goodbyes?

Rory's refusal/Lorelai's advice--I think it showed a very TV view of love. As did Christopher and Lorelai's marriage. I think it's normal and natural for anyone to feel some hesitation, especially when they're in the biggest transition of their life. I could see asking for a longer engagement and using that time to figure out what she wanted professionally and find a way to make their lives work together. I think Lorelai's advice was a reflection of her experiences--with Luke she didn't want to hesitate, with Christopher she did and it didn't work out. But I have a hard time thinking there's someone out there that is better suited for Rory than Logan. Though if she ended up back with Jess, I wouldn't complain. :)

Previews--it was just WRONG of the CW to show what they did. Of course we all know what's going to happen, but they should have left a little something to the imagination. >:(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: nhiltner on May 09, 2007, 08:25:30 am
I just saw on TV that this episode will air to the viewers who missed it because of the LA fires this Saturday night at 8 p.m. Pacific time on KTLA Channel 5.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: conradv on May 09, 2007, 08:39:01 am

Previews--it was just WRONG of the CW to show what they did. Of course we all know what's going to happen, but they should have left a little something to the imagination. >:(

Yeah, wasn't that something?  Now I wish I would have turned the channel before they showed that.

(as I type I'm trying not to post any spoilers....lol)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Devilina07 on May 09, 2007, 08:51:34 am
Lorelai was just trying to get the town off her back by saying it meant nothing, imo.
Well sure.  She is stepping back into this with some trepidation because who knows what the outcome is.  She doesn't want her feelings trampled upon should Luke not reciprocate.  Same thing with Luke.  In his heart he probably knew that the karoke song was for him but he's denying it to everyone in town.  Even his sister.  Based on their history, they are taking it slow and are discovering clues as to each other's true feelings.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: LLfan2 on May 09, 2007, 09:19:49 am
Well, this was not what I was expecting for the second to last episode. It seemed like they left a whole lot to be tied up next week!  I can't believe the Logan/Rory situaiton.  Why spend all those years with a guy if you are just going to let him go like that?! And they have made a mess of the whole L/L situation.  For the LL fans out there, I don't believe that a DIRECTION is what they are looking for.  I just thought about something, I wonder if we will see Sookie's new baby.  Probably not, they'll leave us hanging on that one too.  Anyway, I'm a little dissappointed in where they are leaving us with the show.  I will be sooooo sad to see it go.  I wish Amy could have finished out the show.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: HBW on May 09, 2007, 09:56:18 am
Um, call me a tap dancing chicken (calling someone crazy is so last year) but I didn't think ratings had anything to do with whether or not the show had an 8th season.†

In my humble opinion, if the show still had its ratings of yesteryear the network could afford to offer the Girls even more money.† The network would be happy, advertisers would be happy, and who knows ... maybe the girls could have managed their grueling schedule for 13 more episodes had they been offered XX more money.†

Say what you want about scheduling conflicts, being tired, etc.† Higher ratings = more money.† More money gives you huge leeway do to what you want.

~Heidi

Heidi, maybe it's cynical, but I have to agree with you.  This show has made millionaires of more than one person.  I really feel like it's a little, disingenuous to talk about the hard schedule.  Yes they work 6 days for each episode.  That's 132 days a year for 14-16 hrs a day, that's 2112 hours a year.  My husband has a very good white collar job.  He works 260 days a year for at least 10-12 hours a day, that's 3120 hours a year.  It seems like the other 233 days a year would be enough to get your battery recharged.

I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to say that maybe Lauren and Alexis and whoever else, should just say,  "We're done.  This story has played itself out and we're all looking forward to moving onto to new equally as challenging and enjoyable opportunities."

I know they are artists and probably feel like they've done all they can do with the characters.  Honestly I really do think that there isn't much more to explore so it's probably time for the series to end. 

Anyway I will miss the show.  I can't think of any show that kept me entertained just waiting for next line of dialogue for its own sake, not because it was going to further the story, but because it was going to have some hilarious cultural reference or off the wall phrase "monkey monkey underpants." 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: iluvgilmoregirls! on May 09, 2007, 09:59:23 am
Ok I just wanted to add some stuff I forgot to say last night. First of all I loved the scene with Paris and Rory it was sweet what Paris said to her I am so glad they became such good friends even Paris can get a little nuts some times. I also loved the part with Liz and Luke. I did notice that Lorelai and Richard seem to have grown in their relationship and I really glad for that someone had asked if anyone nticed that Richard called her sweetheart I did notice that I loved it it was nice. One more thing to add I am not Chris fan by anymeans but I loved that Rory had both of her parents there for her and It was so funny when Emily asked what other pictures they still needed to take and Rory said duh mom and dad and me that was so funny. I was so glad for Rory that's all she ever wanted was for both her parents to be there for her. :)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: .::fleet::. on May 09, 2007, 10:04:26 am
 
Quote
He had everything planned out; maybe that is where he went wrong.
I TOTALLY agree with Rory's decision. She did not graduate from Yale to go follow her man's dreams around the counrty. I think the writers made a great decision there. I like Logan, and I'm sad to see them break up too. But the show is about Lorelai and how she raised a strong independant daughter. That daughter needs to build her own life. It's not about age. It would be one thing if Logan had proposed and announced that he would stay with Rory. But there is a condition to his proposal: she has to leave her dreams and follow his. He's got his life figured out, and he seems to have figured out her life out for her too. Logan may love her, tremendously, but he is being self-centered ( if not selfish). Life is revolving around him. Rory is too special a girl to follow another man's dreams.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: laurla205 on May 09, 2007, 10:27:38 am
Yes, yes, shame on Logan for daring to imagine a life for them.† I honestly donít see (as Iíve stated before so this one will be short, promise) how moving to Palo Alto hinders her career or her dreams in any way, or takes away any options she may or may not have.† I donít and probably wonít.† At this point she doesnít have a job anyway, sheís shut out of the Times and the Providence paper so there arenít many big fish left in the East to strive for anyway (because by this logic she also didnít graduate Yale to work for a rinky dink paper, right?† Did we forget that Logan also graduated from Yale?).† She has to have a home somewhere.† California doesnít hinder her in any way that Connecticut does not, especially if it means she gets to be with the man she loves living life to the fullest.† Committing to Logan doesnít make her any less independent.† Marriage doesnít automatically equal co-dependency (in addition Rory has always been a combination of Lorelai and Emilyís worlds despite anything Lorelai says or does, why not in this area as well?).† She could have had her career and he his.†

How is it that him asking her to come with him is self centered but her refusing to do so for her own benefit is not?† Maybe itís that itís okay for her to be self centered because sheís Rory and doesnít have to comply with the standards of decency that the rest of the characters do?† I donít quite get that.† Now, if Rory had pulled a 180 and said he was not the one for her, then that argument would stand because she would be giving up imaginary options for a man she didnít love.† But she didnít, she repeated multiple times that she loved him (and did fantasize about marrying him one day) just not enough to sacrifice, imaginary or not, or give of herself completely.† If thatís not selfish I donít know what is.†


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Devilina07 on May 09, 2007, 10:48:14 am
Oh, why would Rory tell Logan AT the graduation???  Why not tell him no in a moment when it was just the two of them.  He just walks away and says "Bye Rory"???? ???  Seems a little out of character to me.
Why drag it out further.  She already had a night and nearly half a day to think things over.  Plus Logan was nervous as he stood in front of Rory trying to make idle chitchat that was meant to hold off the inevitable.  He knew she was going to say no and hence his rapid speech that had nothing really to do with the moment.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: HBW on May 09, 2007, 10:49:13 am
laurla205 and Zeddie, I completely agree with you guys. †There has been no indication from Logan that being his wife means Rory can't have her career too. †In the meantime, she has someone that completely believes in her will support her emotionally and btw is, apparently, great in bed!

I won't repeat what both of you have said except to say that I don't believe anyone can have it all and do it all right all at the same time. †But marriage and career - which technically Rory, doesn't even have yet, can definitely be done without either one suffering. †Throwing in motherhood gets a little dicey (take it from someone who knows), but Rory isn't even close to that yet.

I did feel very sorry for Logan and I don't even particularly like him.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Rhiannon on May 09, 2007, 11:36:53 am
I did my main rant back on page 7, but I keep thinking of more little things to rant about. This seems likely to be the last episode featuring Logan, Christopher and Paris, and I think Paris was the only one who got at least an attempt at some kind of farewell.

Why did Paris say "You're going to do  great things with your life, Rory Gilmore," throw her arms around her close friend and roommate of all these years... and Rory just acts surprised "Whaaaaatttt?"  Didin't we already go through Paris having her first sign of big emotion, say, fifty times already? Why would Rory be so surprised, and not hug her back? And how rude to not say anything back to her, at least a "You, too, Paris."

Now if Emily reached out and hugged Lorelai like that, then I could accept a full-on cartoon-jaw-on-the-ground-eyes-out-aaaaooogaa! reaction from anyone, especially me.






























Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 09, 2007, 11:56:42 am
Poor statistical mean, don't mathematicians know Rory is special?

Setting aside for a moment my theory that it isn't over till it's over, I have to say, I can't understand all this backchat about how marrying Logan wouldn't make a difference to her career. He got a house and an avocado tree because she likes the guac (eww) and never once considered that she'd say no. He proposed at a party during a toast to her achievement, for crying out loud. Did he really think she wouldn't say no just because everyone was watching?

Spinsters, I know having someone to keep you warm at night is important, but, with no other guys in the picture, she said she wasn't ready. He said that if she still wasn't ready, he wasn't going to stick around and wait for her to get ready. Helloooo, Christopher/Lorelai.

Besides, the way he planned their life together, it was pretty obvious his job was the key element of his proposal. Would have he held onto the ring if he hadn't gotten a job but she had? I don't doubt Logan's readiness, now that he is secure and anxious to start the building phase, but Rory is still homeless, jobless, and uncertain of her choices. Marrying Logan could save her from all that, but she just doesn't want to be saved.

So I posit that, like Luke, even if she isn't ready to marry now, she may be someday, and Logan is a moron for walking away when she failed to meet his domestic fantasy. Like Christopher, who walked away when Lorelai wouldn't let him get a job and take care of her, he will regret it, and always wonder what could have been if she weren't the girl he fell in love with.

Yeah, I feel for Rory, an offer like that doesn't come along every day. But he wanted her to settle down and adapt to his career and live in his house with a joint avocado tree. And he broke up with her when she wouldn't. It's a 180 from his promise to factor her and not make her factor him, and, frankly, I just don't see it sticking.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Devilina07 on May 09, 2007, 11:58:21 am
I don't blame Rory for doing what she did.  Yes, she's been dating the guy for three years but she's also graduating from college.  She's starting her career.  Like Rory said, she's at a place in life where everything is very up-in-the-air.  Marrying Logan would mean picking out that life RIGHT now.
When does marrying someone you love deeply mean the end of your life as you know it? Rory's response was quick and swift.  We weren't privy to the conversation she had with Logan after he proposed but I would say that it wasn't as in depth as it should have been.  If your partner is understanding then things can be worked out.  And they could be engaged without jumping right to the wedding.  If Rory wanted to wait a year or two so that things could be put into place then that would have worked too.

What confuses me is that Rory had, in the past, talked about Logan being the "one."  He was supportive, was deeply in love with her, and wanted to spend the rest of his life with her.  She had no real prospects as far as jobs go and this move to San Francisco would not have ruined any sort of plans she already had in place (mostly because she didn't have any).  Logan spoke of factoring in each other regarding plans.  He did that when he took the job in California.  And by factoring her in he proposed to her.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: HBW on May 09, 2007, 11:59:35 am
I did my main rant back on page 7, but I keep thinking of more little things to rant about. This seems likely to be the last episode featuring Logan, Christopher and Paris, and I think Paris was the only one who got at least an attempt at some kind of farewell.

Why did Paris say "You're going to do† great things with your life, Rory Gilmore," throw her arms around her close friend and roommate of all these years... and Rory just acts surprised "Whaaaaatttt?"† Didin't we already go through Paris having her first sign of big emotion, say, fifty times already? Why would Rory be so surprised, and not hug her back? And how rude to not say anything back to her, at least a "You, too, Paris."

Now if Emily reached out and hugged Lorelai like that, then I could accept a full-on cartoon-jaw-on-the-ground-eyes-out-aaaaooogaa! reaction from anyone, especially me.

Rhiannaon - cool name. †I haven't done a full blown analysis yet. †I might not, its more fun to reply to specific comments from other posters. †Plus everyone has already said most of what I was thinking. †However, I really do want to reply to you, because I agree about the Paris goodbye. †Rory should have offered more than "oomph." †Bad writing. †I have always loved Paris' character and I was sorry to see her get short schrift.

A big hug between Lorelai and Emily would make me very happy. †Although it would be a little hard to believe. †Maybe an arm squeeze. :)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: inkdrone on May 09, 2007, 12:09:31 pm
Listen to zeddie - very wise.  I've been through a lot of the same.  When you're young, you think you have all the time in the world.  Well, guess what?  It goes fast.  :o Rory made a huge mistake turning Logan down.  Career, jobs?  You can always start a job, change a career, but the right person coming along who values who you are, who really loves you?  That is a very rare thing.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 09, 2007, 12:18:33 pm
I disagree. I think Paris's dialog in that scene was one of the finale's axles. And I should point out that Doyle and Zach have turned out to be the kind of guys we thought Logan was going to be. Lane is doing the long-distance thing with her husband as she procreates, and Doyle is following Paris around the world to watch her hone and recreate.

Plus, Paris delivered the episode title, traditionally bastardized from the original. The episode would not have flown with anyone else.

P.S. If Logan is really sure, why can't he wait? Most of the married people I know (whether bonded young or old) just married the person they were dating when they were ready. True love? I'd say about sixty percent, but only one divorce in the lot. If Logan is serious about spending his life with her, he'll put that in front of marking her third-left finger and just trust her to know when it's the right time for her.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Ggirlfan on May 09, 2007, 12:41:46 pm
I agree with Lessa.  Just like not agreeing with Lorelai saying to Luke, its now or never, I don't agree with Logan saying now or never.  I think relationships are full of compromises.  Maybe if Rory had some time to figure out what she was going to do first (who knows, maybe she would have looked around out in CA) then maybe they could have at least tried to factor EACH OTHER in.

I am also still dumbfounded as to why Rory would give him her decision (especially a no) at her graduation ceremony?  Seems like this should have been something said when they were not in a public place.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: sassygirl1958 on May 09, 2007, 12:43:36 pm
do you know where I can get a summary of what happened on last nights show?  I was watching the 5/8/07 episode when after the first 8 minutes the show was interrupted to follow the fire in Griffith Park in LA.  The show never resumed and I am dying to know what happened!!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: gilly girl on May 09, 2007, 12:45:45 pm
This episode was so good. †How could Logan say "All or nothing." †That is what Lorelai said to Luke at the end of season 6, and look what happened. †I am just now excited about the seris finale, just wish it was not the seris finale!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Devilina07 on May 09, 2007, 12:46:49 pm
They have said in interviews how grueling each episode is, and they've put their lives practically "on hold" while the series is airing.  I appreciate that they've done it this long.  7 years is a pretty long time of 14 hours a day.
Maybe it's bitterness and grief settling in, but I don't think that Graham or Bledel had it particularly hard.  Some of you might disagree with me but comparing their 14 hour days to those who put in longer hours doing manual labor is nothing at all.  Plus they get the comfort of having a hiatus, air conditioned sets and trailers. Not to mention a salary that well compensates their work.   I know and work with people whose jobs are much more demanding.  Some of these people have no other option but to work these sorts of hours possibly for the rest of their lives.  I make no bones about working a comfy job.  I feel for the people who work for me.  I have a position at a greenhouse where I get to sit in an office with regular breaks and air conditioning.  The people who work outside do so without the luxury of having a seat, without being told that they need to work from sun up to sun down.  I guess the term "hard work" is all relative, but I personally know people who do much more difficult things.  I would never say to these people who work at my greenhouse "I'm tired, it's been a long day" because I know they have it worse, ten-fold.

So to hear that the past 7 years have been grueling has to be put into perspective.  It's not that I dislike either lead, but I wish they would recognize this when making such statements.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 09, 2007, 12:51:57 pm
I think it had something to do with the subtext of the graduation. Paris didn't specify whether Rory would do great things for the world or her own little section of it, and Lorelai didn't say anything one way or another about the proposal. (For those who think she isn't qualified to advise - she didn't.)

But when she cried instead of making goofy faces, I couldn't help thinking "that's Alexis saying goodbye to her first home in the industry." She's only graduated, her dream was to see the world. Fez. Anywhere but here. Being tied to one location was the opposite of what she had in mind, even if she was open to being tied to one man.

Picking a dream now would ruin the fantasy, make graduating from Yale an end rather than a means to a bigger, deeper dream than simply not repeating her mother's mistakes. She gave him a reason to quit dicking around with his father and figure out what he wanted, it isn't her fault that a person doesn't always get what he wants just because he knows what it is. Especially concerning matters of the heart.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 09, 2007, 12:59:22 pm
Quick, someone post.  I want to respond about Lauren and Alexis and I can't add it to this post.

I'm jumbling responses to various things in this post, so some things won't be directed specifically to the quoted parts.  And, this is long people. 

  He was truly committed in every way and that is incredibly admirable, not everyone can say that about themselves even when they believe they are committed.  He had everything planned out; maybe that is where he went wrong.  I donít know that there was any other choice for him once she said no.  Yes, I would have liked any of the other options, but once you have proposed and someone says Ďno but letís keep datingí, as Logan said whatís the point?  If a proposal has been turned down that means the relationship is not going to evolve past its current state, itís not going anywhere because a no is a no.


i agree he was very committed and it was very sad since he had imagined them having this whole life together.  Especially since he felt that life would be fine as long as he had her (I think the writers were mean to throw that line in because it made his heartbreak seem even more devastating).  I do think it's sad if (sorry for anyone who is adamant that they're right, but I do) an "I'm not ready yet" means the relationship won't evolve.  I haven't watched the episode again, so my memory might be fuzzy, but Rory's no didn't seem like it was a "no, I can't ever marry you."  That definitely would be something that would be no point in going back.  But, I've never, and nothing will convince me otherwise, that unless you're on the same page at the same time from the start, it's pointless and can't ever go anywhere.  In fact, I find that incredibly scary and stifling.  Not that I think someone should wait forever for someone to be ready and I can see someone smack in the thing would not be able to look at things that way.  But, standing outside, I can't see that.  (zeddie we agree on the broad "It sucks that they broke up and it makes no sense in the context of their relationship"  At least I think we agree on the context thing.  We disagree on some of the finer details, and I'm not going to debate them, not deliberately. Some contradictions might come up within the course of my massive postings.  But, I'm not going to take on the task of debating, because we'll just have to accept that we disagree.  And, I'm not a young one.)  Anyway, one could (and many did) say that when Logan said he wasn't in love with Rory when she first said she loved him, it was a sort of "no" and that was a sign that the relationship wouldn't go anywhere.  Like I said, I don't really expect someone who just got rejected to be all philosophical and ho hum happy that the person they proposed to didn't immediately say yes.  Which again makes marriage something that seems like being put in front of a firing squad.  You'd better hop to, no matter what, or you're dead.   Needing time seems to be verboten.  Although this segues into the next part of your post.

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What makes it worse is that Rory does love him and she did imagine herself possibly being married to him one day.  Since that is the case and heís standing before you saying now or never you say now, honey.  You say yes I want to spend the rest of my life with you because I love you but letís have a long engagement so we can get settled first Ė I cannot fathom why she didnít say something along these lines other than the writers wanted these two broken up.  I could name a million other things she could have said but Iíll stop there.
 

I'd say a long engagement is one solution.  Only, I think a long engagement should only be considered if you're mindset is "I know at the end of this that we'll get married."  In a concrete sense.  Long engagements should be made on a timing issue, like you would definitely be married right now, but there's a timing issue. I also think if it's a question of readiness (for marriage in itself) a request to be asked at a later time (a fairly specific time, I'm not suggesting putting someone on hold indefinitely) would also be a reasonable option.  But, even if Rory had suggested a long engagement, they wouldn't have had Logan be understanding about that, because they wanted them broken up.  Any accommodations short of Rory saying yes right now (because that wouldn't have broken them up) would have been rejected by Logan.  And vice versa.  If Logan had suggested a long engagement, maybe under the reasoning that it's too fundamentally against Rory's nature to jump when it's something this important, so lets ease into it (and I could see Logan, as the character was written doing that), Rory would have rejected that. 



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Logan will be devastated, I agree.  I donít see him bouncing back from this one quickly at all.  Everything he thought his life was, is over.  All he will have left is his job if he can even concentrate enough to complete his tasks as he should.  At least he is moving 3000 miles away so there will be few reminders of her.  Hopefully he doesnít rent that house with the avocado tree, ugh.

Oh sure.  He'll be devastated.  He won't bounce back.  His life won't be ruined, though.  It'll take time, but I think he'll heal.  (and since the show is ending -sorry people, I think it's ending.  But, you don't have to take my word for it- there's no future canon to contradict my assertion that he'll heal)  And, no, Logan won't rent the house with the avocado tree.  He may be persistent even in the face of seemingly unbeatable odds, but he's not masochistic enough to rent the house he envisioned living in with his wife when said wife isn't there. 

Quote
In a way I understand Rory not wanting to commit.  I really do, the world is her oyster and that can give a person a false sense of empowerment.  While I understand her wanting to have as many options as possible I donít see how committing to Logan closes any doors.  I donít see how she sees that it closes doors.


That's my biggest thing.  I think there could be valid reasons why someone may not be ready for marriage.  But, Rory's reasons don't make sense.  How does being single open doors?  Rory's plans these last episodes were settle down in a city and write for a paper.  She wasn't making any concrete plans to go traveling to war torn countries or anything.  She was planning to settle down in one city (New York, Providence, wherever) and write for a paper.  She wouldn't have lost that being with Logan.  And, even if she did manage to have travel opportunities, being married wouldn't have stopped that either.  Spouses do travel.  Sometimes on their own.  Heck, Richard travels for his job.  I'm sure Logan, who's always been supportive of her goals wouldn't tell her she couldn't ever leave.  What other thing would Rory want to be wide open?  The only other thing I can think of is wide open in regards to relationships.  That being married would mean that she couldn't see other people.  But, that didn't pan out with Rory even asking to try a long distance relationship again.  As long as she was in the mind of having any type of relationship she had closed the door to other men.  So, you have a woman who had made plans to write for a city paper, live in that one city, and be committed to one man.  Being married to Logan would not have interfered with those specific issues.  Especially the last one since it was Logan she was prepared to commit to.  Not the commitment that marriage would bring, but when you're in a relationship, there is an understanding that you're going to be faithful.  Which again, says they just wanted to break them up, and they didn't bother to make it make sense.  They could have done the age argument.  Rory actually did make that argument.  And, immediately vetoed it.  These arguments are also debatable (allow me to toot my own horn).  In fact, it doesn't even make sense that Logan didn't get into specifics and argued her point by point, rather than just say what's the point.  Even if it was only out of hurt and with the full intention of walking away afterwards, I would have expected Logan to give some version of "That doesn't make sense.  Here's why."  But, if Logan had voiced specific objections, they would have had to have Rory give a rebuttal as to why they made sense.  And, I don't think the writers bothered to think whether her reasons could stand up under scrutiny.  If they had let her get the fellowship, that would have been a more valid reason.  But then, in character, Logan wouldn't have said the relationship was over if she had picked New York.  Not the Logan who said do what you want for you.  I don't think he was lying when he said it.  But, anyway, vague "wide openess" doesn't work as a reason. 

I still think the whole thing from proposal to rejection was contrived.  I don't think Logan would have proposed at that time if they didn't want it to be a way to break them up.  And, he probably would have been looking for jobs in various areas that would put him in the vicinity of Rory.  Again, because he told her to plan for herself and let him take care of the relationship stuff.  But, that's a moot point because it didn't come down to a choice of location.  You're idea laurla, of neither one being willing to let the other give up the jobs they got to be with the other would have made more sense.  But, they eliminated that by making Rory not have that reason either.  She wasn't choosing a job over Logan.  Even if people would think it was a bad reason, it would have been more concrete than "things are wide open"  I know I just wrote a massive paragraph questioning, but again, wide open how??  In what manner? 

If they didn't want them to break up, I think the story would have gone more like Paris and Doyle.  Logan's never had any professional dreams along the lines of "I've always wanted to work here" so my take is, he would have been willing to have Rory have the majority vote on where to live based on her getting the best job for her.  And, he would get a perfectly fine job, in that area and have qualms about it.  Most likely they would have settled into both of them being in their adult post college lives together and then someone would propose.  And, for any reasons why Logan would have proposed if he were real, I'm looking at this from a fictional character and writers' pov.  If the writers' intention was for Rory and Logan to be together at the end of the season, I don't think they would have written a proposal.  A proposal and rejection was just a quick way of a break up.  And, I'm getting repetitive. 



Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: purpleflippers on May 09, 2007, 01:15:10 pm
zeddie-

Don't forget, that Rory did the Long Distance Thing for Logan when he had to go to London, she didn't even hesitate....why is it so different for her to ask him?????

Also, I don't think that Lorelei screwed things up with Luke, she shouldn't have gone to Christopher, however, Luke was pushing her away for a long time, and he was mostly (both did their part, but it was mostly him) responsible for the shamble their relationship turned into.....Think about the person Luke was before he and Lorelei started dating....then how he was after they started........I only hope that if they were to get back together, he learned his lesson!!!† Look at that, i am writing what should happen, and they aren't going to get that far in one episode anyway!!!

Personally, I think that Lorelei married Christopher partially out of being so upset about Luke, and also because it has always been on her mind, since she was 16 and pregnant.

I think that marriage and career can be done at the same time, However, I don't think that Rory turned Logan down just for her career....She said that she for the first time, didn't have a clear cut path of exactly what to do and where to go, and that she needed that.† Also, if Rory wanted to marry Logan, she would have said yes. She wouldn't have had a hesitation in her head or her heart.†

The key to the Logan/Rory portion of thsi episode, is that Rory can (maybe even should) get her own Avacodo (sp?) Tree!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: .::fleet::. on May 09, 2007, 01:26:27 pm
Quote
Yes, yes, shame on Logan for daring to imagine a life for them.  I honestly donít see (as Iíve stated before so this one will be short, promise) how moving to Palo Alto hinders her career or her dreams in any way, or takes away any options she may or may not have.

Laurla205: You are missing the point. I don't think that anyone is saying that going to Palo Alto is bad for Rory in any way. Or that it takes away all her options. The point is that SHE needs to decide where she wants to live. Whether it's Pala Alto or Zimbabwe. SHE needs to decide where her carreer will begin. Especially now that she has just graduated and is about to BEGIN her new life. She needs to find her own direction, not just follow Logan.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: conradv on May 09, 2007, 01:31:03 pm
.......I only hope that if they were to get back together, he learned his lesson!!!  L

I only hope that if they were to get back together, she learned her lesson.

They shared the blame equally.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: royalschick2910 on May 09, 2007, 01:31:24 pm
I completely respect Logans decision to give Rory the all or nothing speech. Rory wanted to take a step back and do the whole long distance relationship thing again and he doesn't want to have to go through with that.

There is plenty for Rory todo in San Francisco and if she was so willing to just let him go like that then she wasn't all in it.

Terrible end to 3 seasons of their relationship >:(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: purpleflippers on May 09, 2007, 01:39:42 pm
How is it that him asking her to come with him is self centered but her refusing to do so for her own benefit is not?† Maybe itís that itís okay for her to be self centered because sheís Rory and doesnít have to comply with the standards of decency that the rest of the characters do?† I donít quite get that.† Now, if Rory had pulled a 180 and said he was not the one for her, then that argument would stand because she would be giving up imaginary options for a man she didnít love.† But she didnít, she repeated multiple times that she loved him (and did fantasize about marrying him one day) just not enough to sacrifice, imaginary or not, or give of herself completely.† If thatís not selfish I donít know what is.†

Lets not forget, that Rory didn't say, "I don't want to be with you anymore, go away!"  She said she wasn't ready to be engaged, and she didn't want to pack up and move to California.  She ask Logan to do a long Distance relationship, which she did for him when he had just graduated and went to London to work.  But Logan was not interested in that, he wanted her to fit him into her plans, despite the fact that he told her  an episode or 2 before that he would factor her in any plans he made......which makes me think, how long was this planned for, he told Rory to go for the New York Times thing in hay bale maze, what would he have done had she gotten it???

Anyway my point is, Rory didn't end there relationship because she didn't get her way, Logan ended it because he didn't get his......that is selfish.....


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: laurla205 on May 09, 2007, 01:40:30 pm
Iím going to quote you because I have specific (Iíll admit it, some are smart *** but not meant to be offending) comments in reply and I donít want them to get lost in seas of my paragraphs (which I will again try to keep to a minimum for everyoneís sanity).†

Poor statistical mean, don't mathematicians know Rory is special?

Setting aside for a moment my theory that it isn't over till it's over, I have to say, I can't understand all this backchat about how marrying Logan wouldn't make a difference to her career. He got a house and an avocado tree because she likes the guac (eww) and never once considered that she'd say no. He proposed at a party during a toast to her achievement, for crying out loud. Did he really think she wouldn't say no just because everyone was watching?

Does anyone really think that he proposed in the manner he did to force a yes from her?† I think exactly the opposite, that he chose to do it in a public setting because he was so sure that her feelings (and didnít consider no as a viable possibility) for him were the same as his for her and those feelings would result in a yes.† I donít at all think he set out to force a yes by creating a spectacle.† This is grand gesture Logan weíre talking about.† How does marrying him change her career plans again?† Iíve been looking for that answer all day.†

Agreed, guac yuk, even the real stuff in Mexico isnít good either (according to my tastes anyway).

Spinsters, I know having someone to keep you warm at night is important, but, with no other guys in the picture, she said she wasn't ready. He said that if she still wasn't ready, he wasn't going to stick around and wait for her to get ready. Helloooo, Christopher/Lorelai.

Reducing Logan to a body to keep her warm?!† I canít speak for anyone else but I hope I didnít imply that anywhere.† Christopher/Loreali or Lorelai to Luke ala Partings?† I guess they both work but I definitely compare Loganís ultimatum to Lorelaiís.†

It would be one thing if the words ďIím not ready to get marriedĒ came out of Roryís mouth.† But they didnít.† Instead it was ďI canítĒ and ďI like having my options wide openĒ.† She didnít ask him to wait longer for her answer until she figured things out, it didnít appear to be an option to either of them.† She asked if they could try a long distance relationship.† A long distance relationship is a far cry from a long engagement.† There was no Ďyes butí here.† There was simply a no in too many words.

Besides, the way he planned their life together, it was pretty obvious his job was the key element of his proposal. Would have he held onto the ring if he hadn't gotten a job but she had? I don't doubt Logan's readiness, now that he is secure and anxious to start the building phase, but Rory is still homeless, jobless, and uncertain of her choices. Marrying Logan could save her from all that, but she just doesn't want to be saved.

So I posit that, like Luke, even if she isn't ready to marry now, she may be someday, and Logan is a moron for walking away when she failed to meet his domestic fantasy. Like Christopher, who walked away when Lorelai wouldn't let him get a job and take care of her, he will regret it, and always wonder what could have been if she weren't the girl he fell in love with.

Yeah, I feel for Rory, an offer like that doesn't come along every day. But he wanted her to settle down and adapt to his career and live in his house with a joint avocado tree. And he broke up with her when she wouldn't. It's a 180 from his promise to factor her and not make her factor him, and, frankly, I just don't see it sticking.

I canít say I donít agree with this.† Iím just as befuddled about the complete turnaround from wanting to factor her in (which I interpreted to mean, at the least, him making his decisions based upon her decisions).† I wonít try and rationalize it because there is no rational behind it other than R/L needed to break up.† I wouldnít take it to a L/C comparison here either because R/L werenít high school loves with a child and so much history.† On the surface maybe, but not when you look beneath it and all the other *stuff* between Lorelai and Christopher.†

And if they do get back together next week, lessa I fully expect to see a big old ĎI told you soĒ typed somewhere in that episode thread once Iím done staring at my screen waiting for the ďsykeĒ. :D

I disagree. I think Paris's dialog in that scene was one of the finale's axles. And I should point out that Doyle and Zach have turned out to be the kind of guys we thought Logan was going to be. Lane is doing the long-distance thing with her husband as she procreates, and Doyle is following Paris around the world to watch her hone and recreate.

Plus, Paris delivered the episode title, traditionally bastardized from the original. The episode would not have flown with anyone else.

P.S. If Logan is really sure, why can't he wait? Most of the married people I know (whether bonded young or old) just married the person they were dating when they were ready. True love? I'd say about sixty percent, but only one divorce in the lot. If Logan is serious about spending his life with her, he'll put that in front of marking her third-left finger and just trust her to know when it's the right time for her.

I donít have any complaints about Paris or her role in this episode either.†

Doyle didnít propose and Logan did.† Thatís a huge step and different from just saying youíll follow someone.† But I agree P/D have it right, L/Z too for that matter.† Where both parties are making changes and supporting one another.†

I agree Logan would do so IF Rory gave him any indication there might be a yes off in the future somewhere.† She hinted at it, said she thought of it but in the end she only liked the ďideaĒ of being married to him and not actually putting it into motion.† If she had come right out and said that it was still a possibility and still something she liked the idea of he might have had a different reaction.† But all or nothing just doesnít sound quite right coming from him regardless of Roryís mistakes (well, mistakes imo) and thatís part of the problem.†

I still think the whole thing from proposal to rejection was contrived.† I don't think Logan would have proposed at that time if they didn't want it to be a way to break them up.† And, he probably would have been looking for jobs in various areas that would put him in the vicinity of Rory.† Again, because he told her to plan for herself and let him take care of the relationship stuff.† But, that's a moot point because it didn't come down to a choice of location.† You're idea laurla, of neither one being willing to let the other give up the jobs they got to be with the other would have made more sense.† But, they eliminated that by making Rory not have that reason either.† She wasn't choosing a job over Logan.† Even if people would think it was a bad reason, it would have been more concrete than "things are wide open"† I know I just wrote a massive paragraph questioning, but again, wide open how??† In what manner?

Heh, they threw reason out the window with this one, speccing was almost useless because I could never have imagined this being the only reason.† I mean, we knew it was so she could be independent.† But to want to be independent just for the sake of independence (which really isnít being independent when you take into consideration that the Lorelai and Rory relationship is more co-dependent then most romantic relationships on the show, most certainly more than R/L) and having options that arenít really options (because there arenít any options in front of her right now!).† Wait.† Now Iím confusing myself.† Maybe thatís the trick.†

The thread was moving warp speed when I started this post.† Itíll pick up.†

Oh boy fleet, it'll have to be a different post because this is way too long.† But my last paragraph is close to a response to that even though it wasn't intended that way.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: purpleflippers on May 09, 2007, 01:44:42 pm
.......I only hope that if they were to get back together, he learned his lesson!!!† L

I only hope that if they were to get back together, she learned her lesson.

They shared the blame equally.

I don't think it was equal, Lorelei put a lot into there relationship, especially once they got engaged, When April came into his life, i can understand him wanting to get to know her before Lorelei got involved (although keeping it from her wasn't so good), but once he had spent time with April and things were going well, Luke still kept Lorelei at a distance (i'm not talking about involving her with april) just in general....He thought iut was ok to give her times she could and couldn't come to the diner, and after the conversation they had on Valentine's Day, he knew she wanted to get married, and still, he just let it go......

Did Lorelei handle thing badly, yes, absolutly, she gets some of the balme, however, Luke takes the majority for the way he treated her for months!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 09, 2007, 01:49:31 pm
If Logan is neither a liar or someone who arbitrarily changes his mind on a whim without factoring in the other person (and I don't think he is) in character if Rory had a great offer from a job not in San Fransisco, he would have adjusted his plans to try and find a job somewhere else and an equivalent to the avocado tree.  He might have even been willing to try long distance for some concrete reason.  Okay, stopping that portion of my post before I get carried away again.

d grief settling in, but I don't think that Graham or Bledel had it particularly hard.  Some of you might disagree with me but comparing their 14 hour days to those who put in longer hours doing manual labor is nothing at all.  Plus they get the comfort of having a hiatus, air conditioned sets and trailers. Not to mention a salary that well compensates their work.   I know and work with people whose jobs are much more demanding.  Some of these people have no other option but to work these sorts of hours possibly for the rest of their lives.  I make no bones about working a comfy job.  I feel for the people who work for me.  I have a position at a greenhouse where I get to sit in an office with regular breaks and air conditioning.  The people who work outside do so without the luxury of having a seat, without being told that they need to work from sun up to sun down.  I guess the term "hard work" is all relative, but I personally know people who do much more difficult things.  I would never say to these people who work at my greenhouse "I'm tired, it's been a long day" because I know they have it worse, ten-fold.

So to hear that the past 7 years have been grueling has to be put into perspective.  It's not that I dislike either lead, but I wish they would recognize this when making such statements.

How do you know they don't have it in perspective?  Did they say their jobs are harder than anyone else's?  If I slam my finger in the door I'm going to scream.  It doesn't mean I have no sense of people who get shot.  Yeah, that's worse.  Doesn't make my finger throb any less.  I don't think only people who have it worse than others get griping rights.  And, I don't even think they were griping.  Weren't they just saying specifically why they were ready to stop?  I would say to someone that I'm tired and it's been a long day.  I've had long days.  I've never worked manual labor, but I've worked long days and been tired.  I would not tell someone in a more difficult job that I've had it worse than them.

And, I've never understood when someone says they're ready to leave a job and they do because they have that option, someone responds by pointing out the people who don't have the option of leaving a job they don't like.  How is that relevant?  Yeah, it's sad that some people have to work at jobs they would rather not do.  Does that mean someone who does have the option shouldn't go out of solidarity? 

Sure, acting isn't the worst or even one of the worst jobs.  You're in the upper level of actors (meaning the ones who are recognized by the public) and yeah, you have perks that most of us can only dream about.  In many ways it's easier than tons of jobs (I also don't think manual labor is the trump card of hard work.   I think an office job can be very grueling in it's own way).  Doesn't mean it's not also hard.  I could never act, and not just because of the talent issue.  I would find memorizing all that dialogue, getting on all those marks too hard.   But, also, from the little I've gathered, Lauren isn't denying the good of the job.  Just that the positives at this point don't exceed the negatives.  I  could speculate that Alexis feels the same way, but I'm not sure.  (Not sure about Lauren, but I feel more comfortable speculating there)  And, I feel it's great that she's at a place where she can make a decision based on that.  It's a shame that we all can't (okay, I have but it was on a much smaller scale).  But, I don't think the fact that we can't should be a factor in whether they can or should.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: conradv on May 09, 2007, 01:53:04 pm
.......I only hope that if they were to get back together, he learned his lesson!!!  L

I only hope that if they were to get back together, she learned her lesson.

They shared the blame equally.

I don't think it was equal, Lorelei put a lot into there relationship, especially once they got engaged, When April came into his life, i can understand him wanting to get to know her before Lorelei got involved (although keeping it from her wasn't so good), but once he had spent time with April and things were going well, Luke still kept Lorelei at a distance (i'm not talking about involving her with april) just in general....He thought iut was ok to give her times she could and couldn't come to the diner, and after the conversation they had on Valentine's Day, he knew she wanted to get married, and still, he just let it go......

Did Lorelei handle thing badly, yes, absolutly, she gets some of the balme, however, Luke takes the majority for the way he treated her for months!

How about Lorelai lying to Luke to his face about spending the night drinking with Chistopher?  There were things that she did wrong as well as Luke.


Anyway, this thread is probably not the best to debate this topic, and it's been debated to death anyway.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: purpleflippers on May 09, 2007, 02:12:21 pm
.......I only hope that if they were to get back together, he learned his lesson!!!† L

I only hope that if they were to get back together, she learned her lesson.

They shared the blame equally.

I don't think it was equal, Lorelei put a lot into there relationship, especially once they got engaged, When April came into his life, i can understand him wanting to get to know her before Lorelei got involved (although keeping it from her wasn't so good), but once he had spent time with April and things were going well, Luke still kept Lorelei at a distance (i'm not talking about involving her with april) just in general....He thought iut was ok to give her times she could and couldn't come to the diner, and after the conversation they had on Valentine's Day, he knew she wanted to get married, and still, he just let it go......

Did Lorelei handle thing badly, yes, absolutly, she gets some of the balme, however, Luke takes the majority for the way he treated her for months!

How about Lorelai lying to Luke to his face about spending the night drinking with Chistopher?† There were things that she did wrong as well as Luke.


Anyway, this thread is probably not the best to debate this topic, and it's been debated to death anyway.

I agree, this topic has been debated to death, just one last thought, though,the christopher/drinking incident was a while before, Luke and Lorelei had discussed that (when they had a good relationship) along with the phone call christopher made to her, Luke forgave her, and she promised she would talk to him about things, as a matter of fact, he said they couldn't have secrets if this thinng was going to work, she said she agreed, and they made up......a few scenes later, Luke found out he had a daughter, and spent the next few months Lying to Lorelei...When you tell someone you forgive them, you move forward, not backward.  Also, I made a point of mentioning that Luke keeping April a secret wasn't what i was talking about.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 09, 2007, 02:16:12 pm
I don't think I can express how mad I am about Rory not accepting Logan's proposal.  The writers just messed up the whole Gilmore Girls show!  It was enough when they ruined Lorelei and Christopher's marriage, now this!!!  No one is ending up with whom I wanted and it is just a mess!! 

I am pissed!  Why I take this so personally, I do not know but I do and it just sucks.  I would have said yes to Logan.  What a hottie, good guy, just perfect!

Oh Rory, what have you done!

Yes, i am also falling short of expression, even though i have showed my anger.  Ok. DEUCE - excellent analysis - did you take a sedative to write with such steadiness (i could not, i was too ticked off) - had i been calm enuf i might have phrased thing just as you did.

I have to repeat something i have said a lot. The WAS a TV show, ok?  Therefore, we the viewers (the lifeblood of the thing, really, ok?)  had EVERY RIGHT to expect certain things. I cannot do anything about those who wanted Jess instead of Logan - but let us consider the Logan supporters. Gosh Dang it, we had a right to assume that Rory would (maybe with some trepidation) accept the proposal, on condition of them working thru some issues; Something Like - "Yes, Logan, i will marry you - if you agree to a longish engagement, so that we both know we each have careers and also what we want out of marriage.  Things are a little unsettled for me. So, yes, i will gladly wear your ring, and now just give me enough time to feel good about ALL of it - not just you wanting to marry me. Is that fair?"

THAT is how i would have written it - something like that.....  And i LOVE avocados.   :) That was so SWEET of Logan. :-*   No, i cannot be dissuaded - this was a plain old writing FUBAR.  I felt so bad for Logan and i thought Matt really evoked my empathy.  :'(  I only wish i could ever have come that close to marrying such an adorable man.  See, the show is SUPPOSED to let me (and others) live vicariously.  Yes, we all know that marriages end, that marriage and career is had to mesh - but need it be shoved in our faces also on our favorite show? NO.

Ggirlfan, i have sympathy of course for what happened to you, regarding the career thing (am i quoting the right person?) Yes. of course, things do go wrong. But I remember going to Rome - and running thru the frenetic streets at 1am - just loving all of it, and then i got a twinge, and i said out loud "This is wrong, i should be sharing this with someone" - i wasn't dating, but i even thought of a good friend of mine - a married man who happened to be a friend and i thought, "I wish at least that so'n'so was here - i will never be able to describe this moment to him - or anyone...."

Choosing career over a man that YOU LOVE AND WHO IS PROBABLY YOUR SOULMATE, AFTER ALL (remember that factoid) is just idiotic BECAUSE - your career will let you down, most of the time. I mean, unless you plan to be the first woman to climb mount everest backwards or on your hands or something and you need your entire life to practice, then your career is NOT going to be more fulfiling that real love and marriage to your "perfect man" - it just isn't, ok? I have been down ALL of these roads already. I did the bit where i was crazy into my career - and i got f-ed over for it. I just don't have kids, but other than that - i did the bit where i loved someone who didn't love me, i also married a man who was not very committed, and i let THE ONE - THE ONE slip away from me.  So i have done all of it. I know from experience, not just from talking about it.

People are challenging my statements, and i would be glad to repond, but we are sort of overwhelming the posts right now, so i am not sure if i wil be able to cover al of this.  I see something about Rory doing the LD thing in London - PURPLEFLIPPERS Sorry, but i do NOT agree that this is the same thing for so many REASONS: Today, the relationship has matured, moved forward, etc. AND Logan was being pushed by his Dad to do the London thing - that was a temporary thing, and it also came at a time when the relationship was stil growing - Logan needed that separation to feel the full extent of his love for Rory - totally different - completely different now. NOW, Logan knows and so does Rory - that this is (should have been) for keeps - they got past all the "kid stuff" - into adulthood, the relationship TURNED A CORNER. I don't know how to explain this if a person has NOT experienced this in life.  But many of you have experienced this. There is this thing that happens - one day you both realize you are deeply commited to one another, deeply in love - there are these moments of "soul mate" feelings. You just "know" - and i felt that i did see that in Rory and Logan! I SAW IT and then i was ROBBED by some stupid writer. Maybe the writers are all non-sexual beings who don't love anyone.  Yeah, maybe that's it - some fluke of nature must explain this for me  since logic CANNOT. So, no, Rory and the LD with London - NOT the same thing. WHY AGAIN? Because today, that same arrangement WOULD be going backwards - Logan is exactly right! Been there, done that.  They were separated and it sucked - therefore, there is NO POINT in going back to such a "sophmoric" arrangement once again. It is a waste of good adult emotions to do that.  Plain and simple.



Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 09, 2007, 02:23:09 pm

I canít say I donít agree with this.  Iím just as befuddled about the complete turnaround from wanting to factor her in (which I interpreted to mean, at the least, him making his decisions based upon her decisions). 


I'm more angry than befuddled.  The writers didn't care about character integrity.  I mean the writers' integrity, not Logan's.  Very very few people in this world are 100% honest all the time about everything (I said that no one is, but got corrected in that before).  So, I won't say Logan has never lied, but lying is not one of his basic character flaws.  He's been presented as a overall honest person. By making him take an about face, they made him either a liar or someone whose willingness to compromise be restricted to only if it goes his way.  It would have been better if they never had the factor in conversation.  There was no point to that conversation (what, a false sense of security for shippers?  A cool way to keep people from guessing?  Not necessary and a cheap trick).  This episode could have played out in the exact miserable way even if Hay, Bale, Maze had never happened.  But, at least it wouldn't have led to "what happened to Logan saying he was going to factor her in?"  Although, I think at least in a small way, he was trying to factor her in.  He did research jobs for her.  And, the funny thing is, one of those papers was a paper Rory had applied to work at.  It's ridiculous.  The least they could have done to make some sense would be to have Logan find a job in Louisiana or something.  Somewhere she never considered working.  I do think he should have consulted her before making plans -a relationship is a partnership- but his plans were in line with things Rory had considered. 

I'm of the gloomy and pessimistic opinion that the writers meant the break up to stick.  They weren't looking at this as a cliffhanger or getting them back together if there was another season.  (I could be wrong, but that's how I read t).  Going by that reasoning, I wonder if the writers thought when they had Rory list the Chronicle as one of her choices and then have Logan get a job right in that vicinity.  Not that there wouldn't be issues, but at least if you're going to break a couple up, don't make it easy to knock down the reasons.  Put a little effort into it.  It's like they wanted every reason why they don't need to break up, but they do anyway.  Leaving aside grand issues of love and marriage, I still feel it was shoddy writing.  Not just for the outcome but the way the outcome came about.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: royalschick2910 on May 09, 2007, 02:25:44 pm
Way to say it Zeddie!

Logan was making the more mature decision...you can't tell me Rory had no clue it would never work out.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: purpleflippers on May 09, 2007, 02:29:30 pm
I am pissed!† Why I take this so personally, I do not know but I do and it just sucks.†

You've got it right there!!!

That is why we are all debating what should have happened, what did happen, and what will happen........We all take this show personally....

I think that is what makes this show great, we feel sorry for them, we get mad at them, we feel pride and sorrow, and hope. That is why the CW and WB should be ashamed that they are leaving us with a "searies/season" finale. We deserve closure, or should i say proper closure, and that can't happen in two episode!



Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Devilina07 on May 09, 2007, 02:34:49 pm
If Logan is neither a liar or someone who arbitrarily changes his mind on a whim without factoring in the other person (and I don't think he is) in character if Rory had a great offer from a job not in San Fransisco, he would have adjusted his plans to try and find a job somewhere else and an equivalent to the avocado tree.  He might have even been willing to try long distance for some concrete reason.  Okay, stopping that portion of my post before I get carried away again.

d grief settling in, but I don't think that Graham or Bledel had it particularly hard.  Some of you might disagree with me but comparing their 14 hour days to those who put in longer hours doing manual labor is nothing at all.  Plus they get the comfort of having a hiatus, air conditioned sets and trailers. Not to mention a salary that well compensates their work.   I know and work with people whose jobs are much more demanding.  Some of these people have no other option but to work these sorts of hours possibly for the rest of their lives.  I make no bones about working a comfy job.  I feel for the people who work for me.  I have a position at a greenhouse where I get to sit in an office with regular breaks and air conditioning.  The people who work outside do so without the luxury of having a seat, without being told that they need to work from sun up to sun down.  I guess the term "hard work" is all relative, but I personally know people who do much more difficult things.  I would never say to these people who work at my greenhouse "I'm tired, it's been a long day" because I know they have it worse, ten-fold.

So to hear that the past 7 years have been grueling has to be put into perspective.  It's not that I dislike either lead, but I wish they would recognize this when making such statements.

How do you know they don't have it in perspective?  Did they say their jobs are harder than anyone else's?  If I slam my finger in the door I'm going to scream.  It doesn't mean I have no sense of people who get shot.  Yeah, that's worse.  Doesn't make my finger throb any less.  I don't think only people who have it worse than others get griping rights.  And, I don't even think they were griping.  Weren't they just saying specifically why they were ready to stop?  I would say to someone that I'm tired and it's been a long day.  I've had long days.  I've never worked manual labor, but I've worked long days and been tired.  I would not tell someone in a more difficult job that I've had it worse than them.

And, I've never understood when someone says they're ready to leave a job and they do because they have that option, someone responds by pointing out the people who don't have the option of leaving a job they don't like.  How is that relevant?  Yeah, it's sad that some people have to work at jobs they would rather not do.  Does that mean someone who does have the option shouldn't go out of solidarity? 

Sure, acting isn't the worst or even one of the worst jobs.  You're in the upper level of actors (meaning the ones who are recognized by the public) and yeah, you have perks that most of us can only dream about.  In many ways it's easier than tons of jobs (I also don't think manual labor is the trump card of hard work.   I think an office job can be very grueling in it's own way).  Doesn't mean it's not also hard.  I could never act, and not just because of the talent issue.  I would find memorizing all that dialogue, getting on all those marks too hard.   But, also, from the little I've gathered, Lauren isn't denying the good of the job.  Just that the positives at this point don't exceed the negatives.  I  could speculate that Alexis feels the same way, but I'm not sure.  (Not sure about Lauren, but I feel more comfortable speculating there)  And, I feel it's great that she's at a place where she can make a decision based on that.  It's a shame that we all can't (okay, I have but it was on a much smaller scale).  But, I don't think the fact that we can't should be a factor in whether they can or should.
I'm going to have to disagree with you.  As someone who does care about worker's rights and has seen the effects that certain work can have on the body, I'd say that those who perform manual labor have a heavier toll on their body as well as not being compensated for their work.  At the end of the day, someone who has a tough day at an office job just doesn't compare.

And perhaps you didn't read my original post well enough and you should have a second look.  My problem with Graham's comments (and mind you, I already said that many people will disagre with me and this is my personal opinion) stem from the fact that the perspective I am talking about doesn't come into play.  Yes her job was demanding but considerably less demanding than many, many other people.  She can leave her role on 'Gilmore Girls' and I won't object but this grueling schedule that she mentions only lasted a few weeks a year.  In reading your response I don't think you are seeing or connecting the points I am making. I never said that I don't want Graham to leave her job because it isn't hard enough.   From the sound of your post it sounds as though you disagree that manual labor is not taxing.  Is that really the point you want to make?  I certainly hope not.

I'm sorry, what does your finger have to do with anything?  Physical pain such as being shot and stubbing your toe or what have you is different from what I am speaking about.  Your example seems highly irrelevant to the subject I was discussing.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.  Bless them for their work and keeping me entertained for all these years whether or not they think their jobs were hard or not.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lifesSHORTtalkFAST on May 09, 2007, 02:36:18 pm
O my goodness, i cryed.
The lorelai and luke, Bad Timing, so sad.
Rory and Logan, sorta happy shes not "tied down" to him. †However its sad to see the series end with her alone.
A week from 2day ill be in morning.
November 5,2000-May 15,2007


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 09, 2007, 02:49:20 pm

I canít say I donít agree with this.  Iím just as befuddled about the complete turnaround from wanting to factor her in (which I interpreted to mean, at the least, him making his decisions based upon her decisions). 


I'm more angry than befuddled.  The writers didn't care about character integrity.  I mean the writers' integrity, not Logan's.  Very very few people in this world are 100% honest all the time about everything (I said that no one is, but got corrected in that before).  So, I won't say Logan has never lied, but lying is not one of his basic character flaws.  He's been presented as a overall honest person. By making him take an about face, they made him either a liar or someone whose willingness to compromise be restricted to only if it goes his way.  It would have been better if they never had the factor in conversation.  There was no point to that conversation (what, a false sense of security for shippers?  A cool way to keep people from guessing?  Not necessary and a cheap trick).  This episode could have played out in the exact miserable way even if Hay, Bale, Maze had never happened.  But, at least it wouldn't have led to "what happened to Logan saying he was going to factor her in?"  Although, I think at least in a small way, he was trying to factor her in.  He did research jobs for her.  And, the funny thing is, one of those papers was a paper Rory had applied to work at.  It's ridiculous.  The least they could have done to make some sense would be to have Logan find a job in Louisiana or something.  Somewhere she never considered working.  I do think he should have consulted her before making plans -a relationship is a partnership- but his plans were in line with things Rory had considered. 

I'm of the gloomy and pessimistic opinion that the writers meant the break up to stick.  They weren't looking at this as a cliffhanger or getting them back together if there was another season.  (I could be wrong, but that's how I read t).  Going by that reasoning, I wonder if the writers thought when they had Rory list the Chronicle as one of her choices and then have Logan get a job right in that vicinity.  Not that there wouldn't be issues, but at least if you're going to break a couple up, don't make it easy to knock down the reasons.  Put a little effort into it.  It's like they wanted every reason why they don't need to break up, but they do anyway.  Leaving aside grand issues of love and marriage, I still feel it was shoddy writing.  Not just for the outcome but the way the outcome came about.

Ok, we are onto something here.  Check it out.
I was walking and thinking on this (much to my dismay) and here is what i figure... Consider something like a really fine movie where the lovers are unable to be together.  When the plot takes such a twist, it is necessary (in a well written thing) to have a very compelling reason WHY - the one lover cannot marry the man because it will mean she has to give up her kid - (for some reason, whatever) or the Man cannot be with her because to do so means his father will - die - for some weird reason. Or an entire villiage will be burned - WHATEVER. OH- take the classic one - the Prince cannot marry the commoner because it will rip the country apart - or start a war... These are BIG HEAVY REASONS why the lovers must split up.  And ah, i think it is extremely safe to say, that the lame*ss writers of Gilmore Girls had NO good reasons to split up this couple of Rory and Logan. Therefore, we are NOT able to understand, or to resonate with the outcome! All we can say is "What the f--- - What the Flying Wallendas was that? At least us adults who have some perspective due to our age, we would say that - the kids might say, "good, she is too young" but that might be becuase the 15 year olds ARE too young, and they are doing too much projecting. I have to put adults and children in two distinct classes on this one, and i hope that does not offend - but i mean, it is what it is. Some people are still fourteen.

Ok BAD REASONS / STUPID REASONS for Rory to refuse Logan

* I don't know what my next job will be (oh, big whoop - so, what you are saying is, you lack direction and could work ANYWHERE at this point)
* I don't really love you (sorry, rory, you have professed love too many times, and stuck by him.... you were primed to marry him)
* I don't wanna leave my mommy (bad reason - it is exactly WHY Rory needs to leave - she is brainwashed let's say overly swayed then, by Lorelai and following some of her BAD examples.)
* Avocado trees frighten me.....
* Some of the kids still hope Jess will come back

GOOD REASONS to refuse Logan:
* I don't really love you
* I DO have a new career move and i just accepted a 2 year stint in Africa.
* I have discovered that i am in fact a lesbian -(Hey, it is hard to find good reasons, please cut me some slack - i am actually seroius, this one would work...)
* I found out you cheated again
* You said you would factor me in, now you ask me to leave this brand new position in Africa!? (Oh, that's right, she HAS NO JOB)

I agree that Logan DID FACTOR HER! This is why there are no "movie" reasons for her to say no, ok?  Logan did take a job where Rory could see herself working! He made sure there were OPTIONS for Rory.

PLUS - and this is big, and i apologize i am not sure who else said this or not.... LOGAN ACTED ON INSTINCT AND PASSION - some things are not 100% planned all the time. We are glossing over the fact that just because you SAY "I will factor you in" that does not mean everything goes exactly according to plan! Logan did not PLAN on the big blowup with his internet deal! Also, he did not PLAN to move so far away.  It just - happened. And then, he acted ON PASSION AND INSTINCT to say, "Maybe this is a sign, maybe it is TIME for me to just put it all out there - past "bad script lines" be damned - i WILL pop the question!"

One of the things i love about Logan is his fearlessness - and he doesn't always makes a bunch of LISTS (gag Rory's lists at this point, ok?) he has the ability to ACT on FAITH and PASSION - apparently Rory will learn this the hard way - sadly - by letting THE ONE get away.

DEUCE thanks for backing me up by explaining that endless love does not grow on trees, only on episodic television.

WHAT ABOUT DIVORCE? So what - let them TRY and if divorce happens, oh well.  There is NO WAY to guard against divorce, and one again i hate to be the bearer of the bad news. It takes TWO people to avoid divorce, and sometimes that other person gives up or lies about their level of commitment -

Well, this brings me back to my point - there was NO GOOD REASON for this refusal of a marriage proposal. 

I am just writing LONG posts now because i not only feel very strongly about all of this, i also feel that i have studied enuf about business, marketing, broadcast television and movies to make intelligent analysis of all of this.   This is way long, so in another post somewhere i will discuss.

THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN A MOVIE AND AN EPISODIC TELEVISION SERIES.  For another time then....

The posts are really good about this topic... As for Lorelai and Luke, yeah, i have my thoughts on that - but like i said earlier, it is just too old news for me now - the writers botched that one - too much time passage - i don't care anymore, haven't cared for a while. L/L together again - big whoop - whatever. It is NOT the same - the thrill is GONE. When a relationship just hangs and hangs out there - eventually, the momentum is gone

ANALOGY.  Take one of those metal tape measures and stretch it out - it will stay straight for quite a while, right?  But eventually all the wait and time it took to stretch it out - creates too much stress on it, and it deflates and falls and bends - it passes the apex and can no longer hold itself up. A relationshiop is LIKE THAT!

But hey - what about that POOR MAN who had that boat he lived on and then it burned! Oh man, i was SOBBING for that poor man! I am too empathetic, actually, to watch  a lot of TV, esp. when the eppy SUCKS FARTS and ends badly.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: willowsprite on May 09, 2007, 02:55:00 pm

I canít say I donít agree with this.† Iím just as befuddled about the complete turnaround from wanting to factor her in (which I interpreted to mean, at the least, him making his decisions based upon her decisions).†


I'm more angry than befuddled.† The writers didn't care about character integrity.† I mean the writers' integrity, not Logan's.† Very very few people in this world are 100% honest all the time about everything (I said that no one is, but got corrected in that before).† So, I won't say Logan has never lied, but lying is not one of his basic character flaws.†

Yeah, the whole turn of events is strange. As far as I can remember, R/L had never talked about marriage, although I remember Richard and Emily and Logan's parents thinking/worrying about it. †I felt for Logan, up there pouring out his heart. †But was it in line with his character to suddenly decide to get married, and that it had to be now? †Most people give off a few hints, even when they lived together it was more of --you need a place to stay, you're welcome to stay here -- instead of a real desire to build a shared space. And I never got any hints that Rory was falling out of love with him, or uncertain of her feelings. †Her ability to refuse him within 24 hours didn't really seem like Rory to me. †She agonized over the job in Providence about as long. Anyway, I agree that it was done for expediency, to either end the series with Rory heading out into the world independent or so in case of season 8 there could be more drama ?new guy(s)? for Rory.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 09, 2007, 02:59:54 pm
Yeah, i think all of this can be in many respects chalked up to "Oh look, the series is ending, hey we better wrap up this McGillicutty, ana hey?"

"Ya, sure, you got dat right, once yet..."

With like - NO REGARD for the actual logic behind it. Just - end the sucker. Yeah, that's the problem here.  >:(

PEACE TO ALL  :)

i am sad...  :'( :-* :-* :-*


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 09, 2007, 03:00:19 pm


I have to repeat something i have said a lot. The WAS a TV show, ok?  Therefore, we the viewers (the lifeblood of the thing, really, ok?)  had EVERY RIGHT to expect certain things. I cannot do anything about those who wanted Jess instead of Logan - but let us consider the Logan supporters. Gosh Dang it, we had a right to assume that Rory would (maybe with some trepidation) accept the proposal, on condition of them working thru some issues; Something Like - "Yes, Logan, i will marry you - if you agree to a longish engagement, so that we both know we each have careers and also what we want out of marriage.  Things are a little unsettled for me. So, yes, i will gladly wear your ring, and now just give me enough time to feel good about ALL of it - not just you wanting to marry me. Is that fair?"

I will agree up to the point that shippers had every right (and every logic based on how they wrote the relationship prior to this) to believe it wasn't going to end this episode.  They gave no set up for a break up.  And, for every obstacle people assumed was the one Rory would dump Logan over (because the majority of cries for a break up were along the lines of Rory should leave Logan and not vice versa) the show wrote Rory not doing it.  But, I think only her break ups with Dean made sense in the context of how their relationship had been going.  Heck, I never even liked her with Jess and I felt that was contrived because the spin off they wanted was more important than continuity. 



Quote
Choosing career over a man that YOU LOVE AND WHO IS PROBABLY YOUR SOULMATE, AFTER ALL (remember that factoid) is just idiotic BECAUSE - your career will let you down, most of the time. I mean, unless you plan to be the first woman to climb mount everest backwards or on your hands or something and you need your entire life to practice, then your career is NOT going to be more fulfiling that real love and marriage to your "perfect man" - it just isn't, ok? I have been down ALL of these roads already. I did the bit where i was crazy into my career - and i got f-ed over for it. I just don't have kids, but other than that - i did the bit where i loved someone who didn't love me, i also married a man who was not very committed, and i let THE ONE - THE ONE slip away from me.  So i have done all of it. I know from experience, not just from talking about it.

Well, two things.  Rory didn't choose a career over Logan.  If she had that would have been something to debate.  She chose this vague wide openness.   That's what I don't get.  And, not taking away from your experience or even saying that this necessarily relates to the Rory/Logan situation.  But, your experience doesn't mean that someone else couldn't find fulfillment in a career.  And, be perfectly happy single.  I'm all for "I have experience and I think that should be taken into consideration."  I'm not big on "I'm right, no room for debate."  If I'm misreading, that's unintentional.  It just seems there's no room for considering the myriad of experiences that other people might have that could, for that person, contradict your experiences.  But, that's getting off topic and eh, I shouldn't say anything else on that.  Back to the show, again, Rory wasn't saying she thought a career was more important than Logan.  It was much vaguer and that very vagueness made it sillier in my mind.


i wasn't sure what to cut from the rest, so I cut the whole thing and am just responding blind.  First, I do think there's one big problem with a long distance relationship now.  Rory gave no indication that it would be temporary.  And, since it was again vague that made it difficult.  I think Logan and Rory were extremely committed and knew they loved each other and wanted to be together when he left for London.  I don't think there were any doubts in their minds.  Partings was one of the most romantic and solid episodes of their relationship.  So, I don't think he needed to do that to help his relationship.  But, I think I got off track.  My point is, I would say the difference in London and now had to do the fact that they both knew it was going to be temporary.  She knew it was a year.  Heck, since I believe Logan went to be responsible and do something, I believe even if Mitchum had wanted to extend the year, Logan would have still come back, only done something else.  But, I don't think he would ever have stayed in London indefinitely without her.  I think if things were the same now, a temporary separation would have worked.  And, I think Logan would have been open to it.  It's the whole, not knowing if the long distance would be a permanent thing. 

Although, apropos of nothing (if I'm using the phrase correctly) some married people, mainly actors, do have long term long distance relationships.  At least as long term as the duration of a tv series.  And, even in the Sodom and Gomorrah of Hollywood (what do you know?  I can't spell eighth without 5 tries each time, but I get Gomorrah without batting an eye) a lot of those marriages are completely faithful and stable.  And, I have no idea if that little digression has any bearing on the show, so feel free to ignore it. 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: laurla205 on May 09, 2007, 03:02:22 pm
I donít think Iím missing the point (referring to a page or two ago now). †Iím saying the point is baloney. †Pure and simple. †By choosing to make her own decisions regardless of anyone elseís feelings or situations (which is selfish) she chose no Logan (darn that Paris and her voodoo, just a joke just a joke, I havenít begun to think about how much Parisí situation influenced her decisionÖyet). †And thatís unfortunate any way you look at it and doesnít make sense according to statements she made regarding her feelings for Logan over the past 2-3 seasons. †Granted she doesnít have the hindsight to realize that making decisions independently just for the sake of not basing them on someone else is not worth losing a great love. †But I know better so I am upset with it.

Thanks, zeddie as I mentioned earlier, I slept off the hangover and it helped :D †And I think you said best why a LD relationship would be a step back and I agree, so Iíll leave it at that (keeping in mind I would be somewhat okay with a LD relationship IF it included a statement that the proposal would still be considered or a long engagement, since the proposal cannot be taken away). †I will say purlpleflippers (and this is not just directed at you but anyone that thinks Logan is a horrible person or immature for his immediate reaction) that once you have proposed to someone and had them say no to you, no matter the explanations, and you donít feel like walking away let me know (to be clear I wouldnít wish that on anyone). †Rory did say she didnít want to move forward with him through her explanations. †That was pretty clear; she wants to move forward by herself with nothing but the changing winds directing her (okay, that's an overstatement but you know what I mean). †But she also could have kept her word and factored him in to a point of coming up with a compromise. †They both could have (which as far as refusing to, I find more OOC for Logan than Rory). †

I think I got the angry out in a couple other threads. †Now I just want to understand, most things I can eventually wrap my head around, but nothing here is doing that for me. †Itís still baloney. †


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: gimoregirls1992ab on May 09, 2007, 03:20:04 pm

I canít say I donít agree with this.† Iím just as befuddled about the complete turnaround from wanting to factor her in (which I interpreted to mean, at the least, him making his decisions based upon her decisions).†


I'm more angry than befuddled.† The writers didn't care about character integrity.† I mean the writers' integrity, not Logan's.† Very very few people in this world are 100% honest all the time about everything (I said that no one is, but got corrected in that before).† So, I won't say Logan has never lied, but lying is not one of his basic character flaws.†

Yeah, the whole turn of events is strange. As far as I can remember, R/L had never talked about marriage, although I remember Richard and Emily and Logan's parents thinking/worrying about it. †I felt for Logan, up there pouring out his heart. †But was it in line with his character to suddenly decide to get married, and that it had to be now? †Most people give off a few hints, even when they lived together it was more of --you need a place to stay, you're welcome to stay here -- instead of a real desire to build a shared space. And I never got any hints that Rory was falling out of love with him, or uncertain of her feelings. †Her ability to refuse him within 24 hours didn't really seem like Rory to me. †She agonized over the job in Providence about as long. Anyway, I agree that it was done for expediency, to either end the series with Rory heading out into the world independent or so in case of season 8 there could be more drama ?new guy(s)? for Rory.

i totally agree....


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: gimoregirls1992ab on May 09, 2007, 03:21:37 pm
this episode made me cry, not because it's sad, just because it's so close to the end, the preview for next weeks episode pushed me over the edge, i was almost to the point of sobbing.....


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: runningsb05 on May 09, 2007, 03:32:28 pm
Omg, good episode but really really bad episode. I cried and cried and cried when Rory and Logan broke up. Cried, and hard. I am so upset. :[

I am going to cry the entire series finale. I don't want it to end, I don't want it to end. It will be so unfinished expecially with Rory single. I have always been there Gilmore Girls, faithful for seven years; can't it just be faithful to us fans for one more year?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: rogan4ever on May 09, 2007, 04:06:51 pm
Omg, good episode but really really bad episode. I cried and cried and cried when Rory and Logan broke up. Cried, and hard. I am so upset. :[

I am going to cry the entire series finale. I don't want it to end, I don't want it to end. It will be so unfinished expecially with Rory single. I have always been there Gilmore Girls, faithful for seven years; can't it just be faithful to us fans for one more year?

TOTALLY WHAT I DID!! i seriously started balling when she handed him the ring back and he walked away...this episode was HORRIBLE!!! i really don't want to see the finale...i don't think Rory and Logan are getting back together though I REALLY want them too!!!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 09, 2007, 04:31:46 pm
Off the break up for a moment, there were two things I appreciated about the episode.  One, Christopher was shown to still be a part of Rory's life.  They really couldn't avoid him missing her Chilton graduation, but they did remedy that here.  And, I still wish they would have delved deeper into the Lorelai and Richard relationship, but Richard telling Lorelai that Rory's graduation was as much her moment as Rory's showed a bigger respect for Lorelai as a mother than he's ever done.  Richard has always seemed, to me, to act like Rory either came to all her good points fully formed, due to his influence, or despite Lorelai.  It was nice to have him give Lorelai credit. 

And, the break up still sucks.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: jamhandsmom on May 09, 2007, 04:41:15 pm
As far as the idea of their break-up not being good for the show to end on, I think they forced it to make the last few episodes work. If they were together, how could Luke and Lorelai get back together in a way that would be satisfying and meaningful to the fans? Rory and Logan would have blissfully been making wedding/relocation plans, and Lorelai would have been devastated that her best friend and daughter was going to be moving 3000 miles away. Not much room in there for Luke, except to comfort Lorelai, maybe, if she'd let him after all the uncertainty in their relationship up until that point. I think that's the rub here--they had to tie up loose ends, they had to get Luke and Lorelai back together, and they couldn't have Lorelai literally looking as though she'd lost her best friend. Personally, I think the Rory/Logan break-up was logistical more than character-driven.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreAddict7899 on May 09, 2007, 04:44:13 pm
Let me just ask this: What is the point of Rory and Logan breaking up?? They built their relationship up for like 3 seasons! Theres not another season so its not something like he didnt want to do another one or something! Whats up with that??! (saddness saddness sadness) Did they just feel like ripping my heart out? Omg!


They were meant to be!
: ' (     : ' (      : ' (


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 09, 2007, 04:58:36 pm
Unto The Breach

ok, i blew away the last big post. Too much, who cares... i am done now.

Good luck to all of you, in case i don't come back here.....

becuz i am both dreading THE END and gonna be relieved that it came and went.  And afterwards i may just - check out completely. Unto the Breach

so, i wanted to say thank you to everyone. I have really enjoyed it. And i will keep in touch with those i have made friends without outside this forum. Many of you are really a part of my day now.  :)

Love,
Zed  :D :-* :-* :-*


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Morada on May 09, 2007, 05:11:46 pm
Wow.  I haven't been here for a LONG time.  I also just found out last night's episode was the 2nd to last one. Woohoo!  ;D

I am completely content that the show is ending now.  I barely made it through the *#%@ in Season 6.  I used to sit in front of the TV trying to make sure I never missed that first minute of the show.  After we got into Season 6, I downloaded the show then watched it when I got around to it.  Pretty much the same for Season 7.  The writers haven't been giving the actors the quality of scripts that made them love the show and their characters.  There's never a good way to tell fans who love your characters that you may have fallen out of love with the project - after all, they have to get jobs after this.  I support the cast in not agreeing to Season 8.  I believe they want to cut bait before it gets any worse.  CathyCoffee said it best:

Quote from: CathyCoffee
I agree with whoever said that DR just randomly wrote down lines without even CONSIDERING who the charcters are.  Seriously, does he want to be known as "the guy who ruined Gilmore girls"? Becasue he is sure heading down that path.

I am really holding a grudge against ASP, because she left there show in such a mess, that she must've known that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to bring it back to its entirety(sp??).

I am the biggest grudge holder.  I always thought the show was so special because it showed some of the very best parts about being a single mother and raising a child.  We saw Lorelai realize she was a little too self-absorbed and she grew up some...then it turned soap opera because Amy wanted to yank people's emotional chains around.  After that, Amy and hubs withdrew from the project to start another show.  That's cheesy.  At least stick with the thing until it's time to go.  Amy has always said she knew exactly how the show was going to end.  I fear the worst (Lorelai and Rory starting out alone just "The Gilmore Girls" and ending alone), but even if the best happens I will never trust another show Amy writes.  I've felt like a drug addict...too upset about what the characters have turned into, but loving who they were too much to be able to completely turn away.  Bleck!

Quote from: Laurla205 wrote
I donít think Iím missing the point (referring to a page or two ago now).  Iím saying the point is baloney.  Pure and simple.  By choosing to make her own decisions regardless of anyone elseís feelings or situations (which is selfish) she chose no Logan (darn that Paris and her voodoo, just a joke just a joke, I havenít begun to think about how much Parisí situation influenced her decisionÖyet).  And thatís unfortunate any way you look at it and doesnít make sense according to statements she made regarding her feelings for Logan over the past 2-3 seasons.

I thought Lorelai refusing to give any input to her daughter was just poor script writing.  She didn't even suggest writing a pro/con list.  She could have had a nice talk with Rory about what she thought the greatest parts of being with Logan would be and all the advantages of making a yes decision and then talked about Rory's fears and the legitimate reasons for considering a no verdict.  Instead she completely wimped out.  (Why do I always think they are going to credit Lorelai with wisdom?  Why, why, why?)  What I saw from Rory was a big TUMBLE backwards.  Rory gets the guy, then tosses him away carelessly whenever someone asks her to make any type of commitment.  We're back to self-absorbed girl again. 

Was it right for Logan to ask her to marry him at that big party?  Bleck.  No.  I would have thought he wanted a beautiful, quiet, romantic night to be alone with his girl to pop that life-changing question.  HOWEVER, I can understand why he did it that way.  Logan is starting to grow up and this is what he's grown up with.  Big announcements in a big place.  He had no idea there would be any hesitence on Rory's part.  She stayed with the guy when he was acting like a 2-year old. 

And Rory....UGH!  Seriously chick, couldn't you have had the SMALLEST amount of respect for the fact that Logan asked you to marry him?  He was nervous and deeply emotional and passionate about it.  All she can say is "can I talk to you outside??"  What kind of crap is that?  (Are we allowed to say crap?)  I'll be very honest, I thought Logan merged two things together - his love for her and the fact she hasn't been able to get a job anywhere and tried to create something for the both of them.  That way she could pursue her own career on the west coast, away from all the rejection of the east coast and he could show her how committed he was to her.  Personally, I would have asked him by whispering in his ear whether I could pick the actual date or not and if he said yes, I would have said yes....for one reason only.  Because that wasn't really the right place to propose marriage.  Sure, it was considering the way he grew up.  It certainly wasn't for Rory and having known her that long, he should have remembered her disdain for anything done at a gathering of her mother's friends.  So, he was a little wrong for doing it there, but she was way more wrong for acting the way she did when he proposed. 

My thoughts on the actual marrying?  I would have made it clear long before it got to this point that I would never marry someone until we had both had time to grow together.  Especially since Logan just started acting right.  I would want to see him fail at the job again and THEN make a marriage decision based on the way he reacted to his next business failure.  I would sure as heck live with him until that time though.  I believe in fate.  I believe if you really choose to have an amazing life, sometimes you have to let the universe drive because you won't know what the most amazing life is until it's presented to you (and that's from personal experience!).  Our conscious minds know so little about what really makes our hearts sing.  Lorelai should have pointed out to Rory that she didn't really have to make a solid decision because by the time they got to the prenup, Rory would have had a millions ways to back out if she really didn't think Logan was the one.  In simply TAKING the chance she was opening the door to a million possibilities! 

But that would have been the happy ending, the two lovers excited about their life ahead?   ;D  That would have ruined Amy's plans.

As far as Luke and Lorelai are concerned I couldn't even watch them.  Lauren Graham is a WONDERFUL actress.  The emotional scenes where she gets sad about her baby growing up and most likely moving away were heart-breaking...yes I cried at the graduation scene.  Just knowing you managed to get your kid through high school with honors being a single parent is enough to make that a tear-worthy event.  Been there.  I was happy to have my son go out into the world though while I finally got some peace and quiet.  ;)  Lauren's acting really conveys to me this lost, lonely and confused person.  And I LOVED Scott's acting too!  He loves Lorelai, but she's starting to pull that needy, self-absorbed crap again.  If she was watching his reactions and body language, she would have known he wasn't ready to discuss marriage in the beginning.  Her forcing the issue on him because SHE was ready was wrong.  Had he just been a regular guy instead of a quasi-hermit, ok, I can see her getting excited and asking him to marry her.  But he's quiet Luke.  He's getting used to things Luke.  He's a guy you can just be with forever and not have to get married Luke.  No, he's not perfect (especially with the hack job they did to him in Season 6), but he's still honest about his emotions and yes, with Lorelai being so overbearing I can see why he wouldn't tell her about his kid when he first found out. 

After seeing last night's episode, I maintain they are still not right for each other.  She's way too needy to be trying to stir that up again.  For God's sake woman, learn to be happy with your own little life before you try to add anyone into it.  I would think the breakup with Chris was example enough of why she should take some time to get to know herself. 

I'm expecting the worst from the last episode.  Rory and Lorelai alone on the steps mulling over the last seven years.  Yeah, we saw a clip of Lorelai and Luke kissing, but I couldn't tell whether it was a new clip or an old clip.  If they get back together, I may puke.  I LOVED them a long time ago, but after what the writers have done to their characters, I'm convinced more than ever that they need to just stay friends.  It's anyone's guess what they'll wind up being to one another after it's all said and done. 

What I DO want to see in the last episode?  All my favorite characters from Stars Hollow!!!  If the town troubador isn't there, I'm REALLY going to be peeved.  ;)  It's not a season ender/series ender without the troubador singing his last song.  I'm so VERY glad Maury has been there this last few episodes.  He was gone for a lot of them over the years.  I love his character!  My dream ending would have Mrs. Kim tell Lane she can't be away from her husband that long and agree to go on tour with them as the nanny.  Heck, if Faith Hill and Tim McGraw can do it, why not Lane and Zach?  I want to see a long pan over the town and all it's residents for the parting shot, including Paul Anka (the dog). 

This was an amazing show with some incredibly talented actors.  I greatly appreciate every thing they have put into this show.  I'll keep my Seasons 1-5 DVDs, but I hated Season 6 so much, I never bought the set.  I probably won't buy 7 either.  I'm going to remember the good times and how wonderful Scott Patterson's body moves when he's taking a woman in his arms and how hard I laughed and how hard I cried.  Then I'm going to move on and be glad Tuesday night is free for me now. 

Life is the most incredible, exciting thing once you decide to let it be that way.  In my last episode, they all allow it to be!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreAddict7899 on May 09, 2007, 05:54:28 pm
Im sorry, but why are you happy gilmore girls is ending?!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Jiyu-chan on May 09, 2007, 05:57:18 pm
I just saw the episode. (I conned one of my friends into recording it while I was at the band concert.) So, I'll put my thoughts into all this.

First off, with the proposal. I guess I was kinda shocked, with Logan proposing to Rory at her graduation party, but it was also kinda expected. I'm on the wall this one.

Kirk in a box. Kirk is in a box! OMG! Crazy Kirk. >_>;;;

I cried during the graduation scene. It was sad to see her graduate.

Rory said no. ;~; And Logan dumped her. I cried.

I'm really on the wall with this entire episode. But, I cried. And I guess it was really meant to be sentimental. I can't say it's the greatest episode ever, but it was alright for the second to last episode.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: haileyerin on May 09, 2007, 06:05:41 pm
Im sorry, but why are you happy gilmore girls is ending?!

I kind of agree... yeah, it sucks that the show is ending but do you want it to end with low ratings, lame storylines and a lack of original dialogue?

People resent 7th Heaven because it isn't the show it once was (which isn't saying much but still...). Do you really want the show to be resented because it turns into something it wasn't meant to be?

I'll probably get blasted for that, too. It just seems kind of logical


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Jiyu-chan on May 09, 2007, 06:12:51 pm
I kind of agree... yeah, it sucks that the show is ending but do you want it to end with low ratings, lame storylines and a lack of original dialogue?

People resent 7th Heaven because it isn't the show it once was (which isn't saying much but still...). Do you really want the show to be resented because it turns into something it wasn't meant to be?

I'll probably get blasted for that, too. It just seems kind of logical

I kinda agree. I mean, I don't want it to end, but I don't want it to turn into something that just ends up with trite diolauge and terrible storylines. But, on the other hand, I want to see what happens with Luke and Lorelai. I'm on the wall with wanting it to end and not wanting it to end. >_>;;;


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Heidi on May 09, 2007, 06:17:08 pm
Im sorry, but why are you happy gilmore girls is ending?!

I kind of agree... yeah, it sucks that the show is ending but do you want it to end with low ratings, lame storylines and a lack of original dialogue?

People resent 7th Heaven because it isn't the show it once was (which isn't saying much but still...). Do you really want the show to be resented because it turns into something it wasn't meant to be?

I'll probably get blasted for that, too. It just seems kind of logical

I totally understand your point ... and respect it. ;)

In my humble opinion, a season 8 with 13 episodes would have been pefect.

- If you look back at some of the show's highest ratings, most have been Lorelai/Luke moments, which is what a fair deal of season 8 would have been about.
- Advertising/counting down the show as having only 13 epsiodes left, would have a better impact on ratings than this 'two episodes left' stuff we were stuck with.
- If the Gilmore writing crew knew, without a doubt, that there were only 13 episodes left to write for ... we could have had some amazing storylines.

~Heidi


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: sarasmile18 on May 09, 2007, 06:28:53 pm
....You've got to love a show that prompts so much discussion. I have been a fan for the past 4 years and am proud to be a javajunkie. I felt Amy had a way with her writing that touch all of our hearts in one way or another. Her characters were so real....living ,breathing, loving personalities....people you grew to love and care about. I have been happy to tune in every Tuesday nite to laugh, cheer and cry with televisions most interesting and delightful characters. I am although a bit apprehensive as to how the last eppi will go. I miss Amy's writing. I hope that when all is said and done, that Amy will let her fans know what was her original plan for our girls' final episode. I truly want to know those last words between Lorelai and Rory from Amy. The story feels incomplete.....I don't know if there will be a Season 8....but I'll keep hoping. At this point.......the writers should at least give us a full end but I don't think that will happen-too many loose ends. What do you think the last scene will be? We know it takes place at Luke's...


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: xxLL4Everxx on May 09, 2007, 06:31:12 pm
I loved this episode. I thought that the Luke and Liz scene was great. I love Liz, she's so funny and she's one of the many people who want Luke and Lorelai back together. And I love how excited everybody was about Lorelai's serenade. It's good to see that they want them two together as much as we do.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Nat on May 09, 2007, 06:33:35 pm
I cried basically the entire episode, i can't believe there is now 1 more episode to go, EVER. I just can't imagine how they are going to be able to wrap everything up in 40 odd minutes.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: xxLL4Everxx on May 09, 2007, 06:37:16 pm
I was surprised that I didn't cry.. I was so pruod of myself for not crying and then they showed the promo for next week and that's when I broke down. Some were tears of joy because of the kiss and some were tears of sadness.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 09, 2007, 06:50:17 pm
As far as the idea of their break-up not being good for the show to end on, I think they forced it to make the last few episodes work. If they were together, how could Luke and Lorelai get back together in a way that would be satisfying and meaningful to the fans? Rory and Logan would have blissfully been making wedding/relocation plans, and Lorelai would have been devastated that her best friend and daughter was going to be moving 3000 miles away. Not much room in there for Luke, except to comfort Lorelai, maybe, if she'd let him after all the uncertainty in their relationship up until that point. I think that's the rub here--they had to tie up loose ends, they had to get Luke and Lorelai back together, and they couldn't have Lorelai literally looking as though she'd lost her best friend. Personally, I think the Rory/Logan break-up was logistical more than character-driven.

Well, I find that to be the most despicable reason of all.  (I'm not calling you despicable, but I do find the reasoning especially if the people who created the show and should think of all the characters -at least the two leads- important in their own right).  If they broke up a relationship at the last minute just so that Lorelai and Luke can have a meaningful reconciliation (which incidentally only some fans would have any interest in, since not everyone cares about the "glorious" and "illustrious" L/L relationship) that sacrifices one lead character for the other.  How much room there is for Luke in Lorelai's life should have no part whatsoever in Rory's storyline, unless it directly relates to Rory.  This doesn't.  Rory's not just there to make sure that L/L's relationship gets whatever so called good ending some people might want.  And, seriously, why the freaking heck couldn't they have gotten Lorelai and Luke back together without a break up of two characters who aren't directly attached to the story?  The L/L story shouldn't even come into play with this.  Just like the L/L story shouldn't come into play when discussing Lane and Zack or Paris and Doyle.  So, Rory plays sacrificial lamb to L/L because having L/L together in a meaningful way is the most important story?  So, if Rory can't be married if Lorelai and Luke aren't together, can she have a job?  Or can she have a job only if it's close by?  And, if Rory gets a job at the Stars Hollow Gazette, and she miraculously gets to interview a famous author, only she has to go to Florida for a week, does she not get to go, unless Lorelai is married (to Luke, of course) and lets throw in a couple of twins to make sure Lorelai's life is fine?  If Rory gets a Pulitzer, does she need to tell them to hold it until Lorelai and Luke get together in a meaningful way? 

And, does it work in the reverse?  Take Logan out of the equation.  Maybe Lorelai and Luke shouldn't be even talking until Rory gets a job.  Rory's fans might not like it if the L/L shippers got something before Rory was all set.

Sorry, but this and other things is why I've always been apathetic to the L/L relationship and I'm growing to hate it.  Heck enough people in the spoiler thread have said they were glad Rory and Logan broke up and it's their right.  So, although it's wishful thinking (cause they wouldn't dare mes with the revered L/L relationship) I'm going to say right now I'd be so elated if L/L NEVER got back together that I'd probably do a pole dancing strip tease.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 09, 2007, 06:59:05 pm
Please let them get back together, please let them get back together, please let them get back together...

I love L&L truly, but I wouldn't have tossed Logan off just for the synchronicity, either. If in fact he's tossed. Though I admit, laurla, that I've warmed so much to the argument for Rory's freedom, I'd be a hypocrite for tossing any "I told you so's" around. If I guess everything, something must be right, n'est-ce pas?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: ObessedwithGG on May 09, 2007, 07:01:40 pm
I was sad to see her turn Logan's proposal down and felt for him.  I can understand why he made it an all or nothing like deal.  They've been together a long time, he's ready for the next step and she's not?  It's gotta kill a guys confidence.  I'm very sad not to see them end up together, especially with the show ending.  How sad.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: wheredidmickgo on May 09, 2007, 07:42:40 pm
i thought i would be more upset than i was when they broke up.  i mean, i'd read the spoilers and knew it was coming.  i thought it was totally unfair and cruel and was sad to see the series end that way.  but after watching the episode, my mind changed.  maybe it was hearing rory's side- it's such a huge decision and there are a lot of things she needs to figure out before she can get married (like what job to take, which will lead to where she can settle down).  if she settled in the bay area, she'd have to give up a lot of other jobs and try for one in that area.  she might miss something that would give her personal fulfillment, lead to bigger things, etc etc.  anyway.  maybe what helped me come to terms was hearing lorelai's words to her daughter- that there will be someone else that she can fall in love with, and maybe with that person there won't have to be questions or hesitation before getting married.  it struck a cord with me since i'm dealing with my boyfriend of 1.5 years and i breaking up last week... lorelai's advice made me feel good. 

anyway, oh luke!  i'm so frustrated with the situation!  i hated it when he overheard lor saying it didn't mean anything...  but their little argument on two levels about rory and logan (but really themselves) was funny.  i can't wait to see them get back together next week! 

kirk in a box...  classic.  hilarious.  i loved it.  taylor breaking his leg in a sketchy way... also classic and hilarious.  it is the little eccentric things like this that make me love this show :)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 09, 2007, 07:42:58 pm
Sorry, i know i sort of promised, but here i am back - i'm BAA-AACK....  :D

The TV people... >:(

Well, i just had a wonderful experience. See, i picked up another Guitar - because Guitars are - Guitars- and i forgot to remember that a good guitar is better than a bad boyfriend ANYDAY.  8)

In the words of my hero Jimi - said after the girl leaves him and changes the locks...(Red House)  "That's ok, i still got my guitar..." You got THAT right.  8) 8) 8)

So, i picked up a Gibson Dove - sweet - but it is a custom build - with sunburst - black into tan into a sunny warm yellow pine. The Spruce top smells of FRESH - fresh wood - and the tone is so pure - so balanced and bright, that i had to go to great lengths to tune it to perfection - because you can hear every little off note - it is a marvel of acoustic wonderfulness - i have the Alvarez and the Martin D-35 (which is a smashing good guitar of course - excellent) and now the DOVE - is - magical. Yeah. Ok, there are better things than a guy... hehehehe....  ;D

In fact, i think i am ALL BETTER! 

SOUL CONNECTIONS...
Ok, i am gonna try to say something now, and it is DEEEEP - possibly too deep for some of the younger crowd, (and i must interject here - we ALL have this at some point with a child or with a parent or a sibling or a twin - but it may go so far back in time, that we are no longer aware - or it happened when we were very tiny).  So, we may have this burried inside us, or we may be waiting to discover this, OR we may go thru life blinded to this. Because the world if full of NOISE.  I am talking about a profound connection with another person of course.  But then, beyond that - when you find this connection with a person who is not a parent or a child, but another energy out there, it can be very unique and not to be missed.  Hmmm.....

If you are very lucky in your life, you meet that "someone" who is your mirror - who not only shows you yourself, but shows you God. It is an elusive concept, hard to come by, and often we create barriers to it - or we might find it more often and more deeply. In fact, since my soulmate and i have not been together for a couple years - i have forgotten.  I have forgotten that magical chord that is struck whenever your eyes meet - my soulmate and i - we had this "thing" - everyone could see it - people were even "reverent" about it, because it was something so special to witness - how closely aligned our spirits were - and still are, in some way. He will always be my one and only soulmate in that particular way. In my case, it did not lead to marriage, becuase of some weird discord. I did not see  quite such depth in Rory and Logan.  There were no scenes where Rory says, "I never told that to anyone before you...." and it needed that - to qualify as some "great love" - you know? 

To me, marriage is not what it may be to a lot of people.  I can't even put it into words. There is only one person out there who ever put it into words for me. John Gray once wrote a paragraph about the purpose of marriage, etc - and i read it and said, "YES!" because he nailed it - one time. In one paragraph. And most everything else i have read about marriage is - pedestrian and not at all on target.  ???

And yet, i am still upset that Rory did not follow the call of this relationship.  The "marriage" part is both irrelevant and vital at the same time.  Here is why i am disappointed. I think in this case - these two actually needed marriage to get to that thrilling place.  My SM and i - we told each other spiritual secrets that no one else will ever know.  No matter what happens in the future - and it was not something we could avoid - there was an instant soul connection - i feel very fortunate to have experienced it.

And here is the real secret.  I knew i had "arrived" at what deep soul love is, when i was able to say, "If this person disappeared, but existed only as 'energy' - i would love him just the same way- and i would know his energy and recognize it - the same way" - in other words, i did not need any of the physical part to feel like the other half of him.  I do not have a child, so i cannot liken it to that. Ok, don't laugh, but the other times i have felt this are with siblings - but not quite the same, and with - my dog. My dog and i had a more pure connection than i have had with most people - because of the TRUTH of a dog.  My dog tried so hard to "talk" to me - he would gaze into my eyes with this yearning look - as if he was trying to tell me how much he loved me.   When my doggie died, he appeared to me audibly - he made his special little whine that he always did at his food dish.  This happened within 72 hours of him passing.  The day my dog went - i had the worst migraine of my life - i was also sick to my stomach - it was a very dark day.  In some very unique way, our souls had intermingled. The power of the love i felt for him - is still something i charish, and God did not allow my body to have kids, but i think i felt most of the same emotions, because i wanted to - i wanted my dog to be my "baby" and so he was.  He was never "just a dog".  After all, so much of a person's life takes place in the mind.

Lorelai and Luke have had glimmers of this type of deep connection - yes, i have seen that.  But i did not so much see that with Rory and Logan - and in a way, i am sorry they were not able to pull that off as actors - i mean, they had plenty of chances.  So, all my upset, etc. - is based on me projecting a better connection. Now and then i saw something quite believable, but it did not reach "Wuthering Heights" - you know?

Wow - that line, where Cathy says "I am Heathcliff" - RIGHT ON! That is exactly the speech i would say about my soulmate.  I mean,theoretically, he is the one i want at my deathbed - along with my siblings. Strange but wonderful too.

One more thing. I don't think Rory (Alexis) was able to lose her baby-voice even to the end.  Maybe once in a while. For me that is a flag that says, she is still living in some sort of sheltered world.  That is just my psychological analysis of her - my ear picking up some sort of vulnerability that borders on "please take care of me, i am still a baby" - that did bother me, i have to admit.

OPTIONAL READ...
One more thing about me and my SM (sorry to bore y'all, but maybe this strikes a chord with some of you? I would think so....) We worked together (not for same company tho') and we would "create" and we were in our own little world that 'the others' could not breach.  I remember one time, we were working out a scene, and talking in our little language we had, and this "executive producer" (person with money) walked up as if to be part of it, and SM and i just stopped. We just stopped communicating, and waited for the interloper to get the hint and walk away - and finally, she did.  It was like "what are you DOING? You are not welcome here - you cannot communicate on our level - please leave..." So she walked away (i'll give her that much, she was pretty perceptive) and then SM and i continued (i don't wanna say his name) ... It was so funny because the rest of the crew knew better - they just hung back, when the two of us would go into this "ritual" - those were wonderful days, when i did my best work, and i really loved my career then - it was going in the right direction.

Anyway, i just wanted to talk some about that amazing yet elusive thing called soulmate - and those times of wonder when you realize that God expects us to recognize and learn of the essense of God in each other - but so often we ignore the instructions......   :-\ So for me, Rory passed up a chance with a man who IS a fearless person who would one day say, "I want to know you on a deep soul level" - Logan was that person, and maybe Jess would also develop into that person, but he was NOT in his scenes - he was still too busy being hip, cool, duplicitous, mad at the world, manipulative, and phony.  Sorry, Jess-lovers.  I did however see potential in him, and they did show that potential in some of the last scenes with him.

Ok, back to my DOVE? Or bed.  Tired. 
PEACE LOVE DOVE.  HEHEHEHE.  :D :P ???


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Nat on May 09, 2007, 07:56:16 pm
So Logan isn't going to be in the finale? I can't believe that they've built this relationship for 3 odd years and now it's over. It leaves you with absolutely no satisfaction, not for me anyway. I'm really upset that the R/L relationship ended like that.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreGirlNumber3 on May 09, 2007, 08:00:40 pm
I was left in tears when Rory gave back the ring. I thought that they were going to make it along with Lorlei and Luke but I guess not everything can be happy. Mrs. Gram herself said "I'm glad that the show isn't ending with a wedding." which is sad but she was true when she said it was abouit the family not the relationships that went along with it - but it helped it along. I would have loved to see Rory and Logan together - he really loves her and she loves him. I couldn't think at my age, 18, being married but I could at 21 or 22 - after finishing my schooling - but then again things change.


Rory + Logan Forever!!!!
[/font][/glow][/color]


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreGirlNumber3 on May 09, 2007, 08:03:32 pm
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j36/freidaz/gilmore%20girls/RORY5.jpg)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: neverapuff on May 09, 2007, 08:31:48 pm
Aww, zeddie, thank you for sharing that with us! I agree with you about so much, I don't know where to start ;) Rory and Logan did have a special connection, although we did not get to really see a 'soulmate' moment...it bothered me how she seemed to get sort of apathetic towards him at the end; she did not value just how special their relationship was. When Paris said, "You're Annette Benning", she was right, and truly, only a soulmate can pin down a playboy like that.Trust me, I caught one of my own :) †Rory really should have cherished what they had; I will never really understand why she was willing to lose him. "She didn't want to have to go CA, have her plans decided for her, blah, blah, too young, blah blah"...and it bothered me how unaffected she seemed in the empty apartment afterward; she said "I already miss him", but then moved right on to "oooh, maybe I'll get my own avacado tree- yay!"...

When I was 19, I had to take a semester off from college because 3 of my friends died in a car accident and I just couldn't handle it.... I got a job at a clothing store and worked with this gorgeous guy who flirted with every single girl who walked by, had several casual girlfriends, was confident to the point of being cocky (you get the idea...) Now here I am, a rather plain, rather depressed, on-hold English major who should've totally hated this guy, but as I started talking to him, I saw right through him and knew almost immediately that he was The Man of My Dreams..... 3 weeks later, he asked me out. Even though I saw with my own eyes, and heard all the stories of what a 'player' he was, it didn't phase me, and we had the most amazing time.... He said "I love you" within a month!! People at the store couldn't believe it.....

Anyway, I did go back to college, and he came with me and we moved in together. Unlike Rory, I wasn't able to catch up on my credits effortlessly and graduate on time. But it was ok, because in June 2002, when I should've graduated college, my very own Warren Beatty and I got married instead. It was the best day of my life. He and I have that kind of special connection that you just don't have with anyone else. I knew how young I was when he proposed, and I knew we could've waited to get married, but I just thought... why? I know he's the right person, it's not my fault I was so young when I met him! I wouldn't have done anything differently if we had waited until I was 25 or 27 to have the actual ceremony, I would've still taken the same jobs, we would've still moved to the same crappy apartments. Because, geez, life is really hard, and when you meet someone who wants to share it with you and be your partner along the way, you take their hand and say "Let's go for it!". I'm glad we didn't wait, because now this year, we get to go on a great vacation to celebrate our 5th anniversary!

And thank you again zeddie for reminding me how special soulmates are... lately, my husband has been kind of irratating, and I've just been thinking of him as "ugh, that guy who didn't get up with the baby again"...


*I think Rory might be kind of doomed to repeat her mother's legacy of non-committment... if this opportunity with Logan wasn't good enough...?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: wheredidmickgo on May 09, 2007, 09:20:50 pm
to me, the word soulmate implies that they are your one and only- the person you're destined to be with, and the only one you can find true happiness with.  i disagree with this concept.  i believe that if both parties give enough effort and strive to live a good life, most anyone can have a beautifully working marriage/relationship.  there are some people in the world that you would work better with (and on the other hand some people you wouldn't want to put effort into and therefore it wouldn't work).  there are some people that you can build an incredible and special bond with, when the timing is right and you let down barriers and communicate well and seek together the light.   i'm not saying there can't be fireworks and happy endings and deep undying love.  i just believe that you aren't limited to feeling that with just one person in the world. 

[gets off soap box]


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Morada on May 09, 2007, 09:27:44 pm
Im sorry, but why are you happy gilmore girls is ending?!

Because of the damage the writers have done to the characters and their lives. 

I live in uber happy world.  :D  In my world, Logan and Rory got married and Rory found 100 different opportunities to choose from and they set a wedding date for a year in the future.  And then Luke kissed Lorelai like he really meant it and she realized she didn't HAVE to have a wedding ring. 

But that's not the real world.  ;) 

Instead, Luke became emasculated because Lorelai asked him to marry her, then he found out he had a kid of his own that his ex wife just had to FIGHT over (instead of the writers celebrating Luke learning about fatherhood).  Lorelai about bust a gut when he wouldn't marry her and then she forced him for an ultimatum (yeah, that's what a guy really wants), then when he wouldn't acquiesce, she ran off and slept with Christopher.  Then because she was so needy, she married Christopher so she wouldn't have to be alone.  Then she showed Chris what she REALLY thought about him when she couldn't get excited about their REAL wedding.  Then she was alone again because Chris realized she didn't love him and she mourned the loss of Luke, but instead of being honest with Luke about her feelings they have some veiled argument over Rory's breaking up with Logan like she and Luke were still in high school and .... yikes, I'm depressing myself! 

This show could have done so much to show the incredible strength that today's single mom's need as they raise their kids and for a while it did.  Then Amy got bored and screwed everything up.

Every interview I've seen where they've talked to the actors on the Gilmore Girls, they said the thing they loved about doing the show the most was the incredible writing.  That's not what they've been getting.  I'm not one for making an actor do something they hate.  Scott's an amazing actor, both he and Lauren should be out doing films now.  They both know how slow the shooting process is for films compared to the breakneck speed they have to learn their TV scripts in.  I don't blame them for wanting to have the opportunity to seek out incredible scripts instead of just doing mediocre work.  I think they've handled it as gracefully as possible without pointing fingers at the writers, like say for example, Kyle Chandler did after they screwed up Early Edition by creating a story line and filling it with a prima donna like Kristy Swanson.  He was pretty harsh with his words about ending the show in the last season that aired.  Everyone I know who met him in person as a fan said he was just as sweet a southern gentleman as you could ask for, but when it came to ending that show...

So, you can see why I am all for the actors going out when they felt it was right and keeping their happy memories.  Maybe 10 years from now we'll get a Gilmore Girls movie of the week or something.  I'd love to see Lorelai with a husband who loves her and two or three more kids and I'd love to see Rory have some confidence to strike out on her own and know she can make great things happen all by herself...even after she's stumbled.  I think that's what we'd hope for anyone.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: purpleflippers on May 09, 2007, 09:36:01 pm
†I will say purlpleflippers (and this is not just directed at you but anyone that thinks Logan is a horrible person or immature for his immediate reaction) that once you have proposed to someone and had them say no to you, no matter the explanations, and you donít feel like walking away let me know (to be clear I wouldnít wish that on anyone). †Rory did say she didnít want to move forward with him through her explanations. †That was pretty clear; she wants to move forward by herself with nothing but the changing winds directing her (okay, that's an overstatement but you know what I mean). †But she also could have kept her word and factored him in to a point of coming up with a compromise. †They both could have (which as far as refusing to, I find more OOC for Logan than Rory). † †

I never said that Logan was a "horrible person", i just said that his ultimatum was selfish.....my biggest reason for saying this, is that Rory was ok with a long distance relationship with Logan when he had to go to London, but he wont extend to her the same thing. †Logan didn't just propose to Rory, he wrote out the next few years of her life, and told her it was his way, or no way. †Also, big times of change are emotional enough, without having a proposal, Rory's graduation was a turning point, a huge accomplishment in her life......and it shouldn't have been about Logan and what he wanted.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Morada on May 09, 2007, 10:01:25 pm
I never said that Logan was a "horrible person", i just said that his ultimatum was selfish.....my biggest reason for saying this, is that Rory was ok with a long distance relationship with Logan when he had to go to London, but he wont extend to her the same thing.  Logan didn't just propose to Rory, he wrote out the next few years of her life, and told her it was his way, or no way.  Also, big times of change are emotional enough, without having a proposal, Rory's graduation was a turning point, a huge accomplishment in her life......and it shouldn't have been about Logan and what he wanted.

Honestly, I thought Logan felt foolish for misjudging how much she loved him and felt used.  Ultimatums are typically what guys do in fear situations.  Other than the screwup at his dad's company that was recent, he really wasn't trained how to overcome failure. He is in the middle of learning that.  He's finally learning to commit and the woman of his dreams treats the pouring out of his heart to her like she's trying to choose between tacos and burritos.  Ultimatums are never right, but I think Logan did the right thing.  If you want to fly with the eagles, you have to be with someone who's willing to soar in the sky, not be still until something better comes along.  Rory's more interested in options than love.  If that's the way she feels, than that's the way she feels, but that's not the signals she was sending Logan. 

It WAS really tacky of Rory to talk to him about something so important in the middle of the campus.  They should have talked about it in a quiet, controlled atmosphere.  That was kinda trashy on Rory's part.  Logan's going to be a businessman now.  He needs a partner that can show some type of social decorum and I think Rory put the question about whether she has it or not to rest pretty soundly with that last move.

Wow, I've edited this three times.  I was just thinking, Lorelai never really supported that relationship anyhow.  She was shocked when Logan came to ask if it was ok to ask Rory to marry him.  She didn't ask him how he was going to do it or make any suggestions like she might have with Jess or Dean.  She was no help at all.  If it was my daughter (I didn't have a girl), I'd want to know his intentions for the whole thing.  That way the social presentation of the ring would have been nipped in the bud.  Or she could have suggested he have "the talk" about what they really meant to one another before asking her.  Lorelai let Logan fall on his own sword.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 09, 2007, 10:55:33 pm
She let Dean fall on his sword, too. In fact, the only guy she's felt comfortable lecturing about the way he treated Rory was Jess.

Logan didn't screw up by making the proposal at her graduation party or hiring a hack and ponies or misjudging her affection. He just got his stuff together before she did. He's an all-or-nothing kind of a guy, and he knows what he wants. She's a pro-con kind of a girl, and (maybe because) she doesn't know what she wants.

For Logan, his family issues are neutralized, his dream job is bagged, and he's got a keen eye for backyards with trees in them. He's totally ready, and he can't figure out why Rory hasn't already fantasized the perfect dress.

Rory, on the other hand, is making an (hypothetically vain) attempt to compartmentalize her love life from her career. Yeah, she's a liberal career woman, not too keen on compromise (either hers to him or his to her,) but Logan was with her as long as Jess and Dean combined, and you don't just get over that in one episode. How many meltdowns is Rory going to have this year?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 09, 2007, 11:30:07 pm
What did Lorelai say to Logan?  I know they didn't show the scene (yet another important scene for a MAIN MAIN MAIN character that they'd rather have off screen, although we've had the privilege of seeing a recurring character like Zach freak out about being a dad on screen) but did Lorelai allude to the specifics of the conversation?  I'm just wondering if she told Sookie that she didn't give him any advice or if that's just the assumption. 

I'm not going to address any specific post (it would go on and on) but I really wish the show wouldn't made every marriage proposal something that was just there with no preparation for the viewers.  Logan's proposal was the least spontaneous, but no one ever talked things over with their significant other.  Did Sookie and Jackson?  Lorelai proposed because she just knew listening to a rant (Go, female proposers!  A strong man is strong enough to handle a woman doing the asking!).  Max blurted out a proposal during a fight.  Christopher was swept up in the whole Paris atmosphere.  Zach proposed in lieu of an apology.  Is sitting down and discussing marriage (with the person you want to marry) before you propose really that unusual?  My brother is a unique creature (in good ways and strange ones) but I don't think he's so out there that he's the only one who talked to his girlfriend about the idea of marriage before he actually asked her.   

Ugh.  I disagree with some things (from people I agree with in the basics) on a really fundamental level, and so I think it's best that I just leave this post right here with the lamenting of unexpected proposals. 

Ah, I think I can safely respond to some things.  Realistically, no, Rory wouldn't get over her longest, most intense relationship in one episode.  But, I think they'll let realism fly.  It's the series finale and I doubt that they'll let one of their stars be unhappy in the last episode.  It's again, a double edged sword.  If Rory is still mourning the loss, that's a crappy way to send off one of the two leads.  Gilmore Girls doesn't strike me as an "innovative" show which would say they'd go for realism and let one of their stars be unhappy at the end.  On the other hand, if she's not still sad in the time frame (and they said no time jump) it makes her relationship with Logan seem shallow, and these writers didn't write a shallow relationship. 

As far as Logan being an all or nothing guy, Logan has always also been very understanding of Rory's pro-con mentality. 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: nhiltner on May 09, 2007, 11:48:26 pm
Why did they have that cute guy a couple episodes back if they weren't going to develop it into something for Rory? Remember him? He smiled and so did she and she was embarrassed?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 10, 2007, 12:56:23 am
Well, supposedly the cute guy (I assume you mean the TA) was there to show how strong her relationship with Logan was.  That simply finding a guy cute doesn't mean you want to jump ship with him, and someone secure in their relationship and not a hypocrite can accept that their girlfriend doesn't have to find every other male on the planet ugly.  If something developed between me and every guy I found cute, I'd have more play than Logan in the height of his playboy days.  Logan would seem like a monk compared to me if mere physical attraction was enough to develop something.

But, now, who knows why they did anything they did this season with Rory and her relationship? 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: uncledub on May 10, 2007, 03:03:53 am
the rory/logan plotlines this season has been the most interesting in this season but also in many ways they have been nothing but lame, innocent and dumbfound. i think everytime they sparked up something interesting they ended up downplaying it so much in the end it became like just a feather again


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 10, 2007, 04:55:40 am
I was left in tears when Rory gave back the ring. I thought that they were going to make it along with Lorlei and Luke but I guess not everything can be happy. Mrs. Gram herself said "I'm glad that the show isn't ending with a wedding." which is sad but she was true when she said it was abouit the family not the relationships that went along with it - but it helped it along. I would have loved to see Rory and Logan together - he really loves her and she loves him. I couldn't think at my age, 18, being married but I could at 21 or 22 - after finishing my schooling - but then again things change.


Rory + Logan Forever!!!!
[/font][/glow][/color]

Wow, see, this is just the kind of intelligence that i have grown to love here at this forum.  For you to be 18, but able to project into 21 and 22 - that is cool.  I posted elsewhere (but maybe i blew it away - not sure) that my parents were young Dad - 21 and Mom 23 - but that they were responsible.  These days, all this talk about career and you forget one small factor

SOMEONE is gonna have to move for someone eles's career at some point, probably... These days, Maybe not my generation.  So - Logan found the job first - so, Rory moves.  DUH. Yeah, this is truly some saddistic writing hack job on the ending of Gilmore Girls.  This is why i have to basicaly abandon the ending of it and PRETEND that Rory and Logan do get together in the future - the logical, satisfying FUTURE that we all hope into - i mean, come on, how else do half of us live each day, if not looking to the future....  Whatever.

As for what someone else wants - it is the viewer who keeps the show going or kills it. We have always had the power - if we really wanted to use it, we would all BOYCOTT the last show - well, that ain't gonna happen.  :D :D :D 

Seriously, these writers are just flipping us all off if you ask me - Why, any common person walking by can see that Rory would accept. DUUUUHHHH. No, the "team" at GG is pissed, and so they are talking it out on the viewers - you can FORGET all this crap about "Oh, Rory and her career"  - that is their lame cover. YOU READ ME YOU TURDS? (in case the writers come here... hehehehe  ;D )

Oh - oh, and what was the little smile bout on Rory's face with the ring, was she just laughing saddisticaly at her conquest (no, that was a 'red herring' to throw off those of us who did NOT read spoilers - i read them though.....)

DANI257
i like what you say about marriage proposals, etc.  I remember when i got "engaged" (and it should have been a good solid marriage, but for my husband being a child of alcoholic fighters who messed him up, so....) Well, we were spooning on the couch, watching TV and he said, "You wanna just get married?"  And i said, "Yeah, i think we should..."  We had been hanging out every single night - together since the first date.  The first date - he got a little drunk and crashed with me (no um, hanky panky, ok?) and then in the morning he left, and i watched him out the window, and for the FIRST time in my life i said, "I am going to marry that man..."

No kidding, just like many other people, i just knew right away.  As i said, he had many "control issues" and so....  He needed a "started wife" to train him. Lucky me.

RE: RORY. Hmm. Let us consider the creation Rory.  She is a "for keeps" girl.  Logan called it right in the beginning - he said, "You are a 'girlfriend" girl" or whatever - at the wedding.  First dance.  OOOO - i feel SO SAD, Dani thinking now of that scene - i want to cry and KILL SOME WRITERS AND PRODUCERS NOW.

So, LOGAN KNEW - Lorelai knew, and Rory sure had to know - Rory is "in it to win it" - she don't just sleep around with a boy for 3 years - BECUZ. So, um, tell me again what Rory was "waiting for?" Oh, let's see, she didn't get the fellowsh*t, she didn't get ANY OTHER JOBS. Ok, so she cannot now marry Logan because WHY?

Dani257 - if you will believe with me, then i will believe that after this abysmal bleakness of an ending to this otherwise lovely show, Logan and Rory will be together in California - SOON.


FOR THE ENDING. Maybe they will jump far into the future - ala THE OC. That was a great ending, as endings go....  GG may be far into the future you know.

IF THEY HAD ANY GUTS AT ALL. They would have a little flashward, of Rory walking with Logan, PREGS. Yeah - that will be MY IMAGE - what do you say, Dani? Even if you hate me some of the time, do you like my fantasy?  :D :D :D

ok, i am off to spoilerville...


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: ohstennischic on May 10, 2007, 05:54:09 am
i kind of wish we could have seen the ring up close   :-[


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 10, 2007, 06:03:50 am
Aww, zeddie, thank you for sharing that with us! I agree with you about so much, I don't know where to start ;) Rory and Logan did have a special connection, although we did not get to really see a 'soulmate' moment...it bothered me how she seemed to get sort of apathetic towards him at the end; she did not value just how special their relationship was. When Paris said, "You're Annette Benning", she was right, and truly, only a soulmate can pin down a playboy like that.Trust me, I caught one of my own :)  Rory really should have cherished what they had; I will never really understand why she was willing to lose him. "She didn't want to have to go CA, have her plans decided for her, blah, blah, too young, blah blah"...and it bothered me how unaffected she seemed in the empty apartment afterward; she said "I already miss him", but then moved right on to "oooh, maybe I'll get my own avacado tree- yay!"...

When I was 19, I had to take a semester off from college because 3 of my friends died in a car accident and I just couldn't handle it.... I got a job at a clothing store and worked with this gorgeous guy who flirted with every single girl who walked by, had several casual girlfriends, was confident to the point of being cocky (you get the idea...) Now here I am, a rather plain, rather depressed, on-hold English major who should've totally hated this guy, but as I started talking to him, I saw right through him and knew almost immediately that he was The Man of My Dreams..... 3 weeks later, he asked me out. Even though I saw with my own eyes, and heard all the stories of what a 'player' he was, it didn't phase me, and we had the most amazing time.... He said "I love you" within a month!! People at the store couldn't believe it.....

Anyway, I did go back to college, and he came with me and we moved in together. Unlike Rory, I wasn't able to catch up on my credits effortlessly and graduate on time. But it was ok, because in June 2002, when I should've graduated college, my very own Warren Beatty and I got married instead. It was the best day of my life. He and I have that kind of special connection that you just don't have with anyone else. I knew how young I was when he proposed, and I knew we could've waited to get married, but I just thought... why? I know he's the right person, it's not my fault I was so young when I met him! I wouldn't have done anything differently if we had waited until I was 25 or 27 to have the actual ceremony, I would've still taken the same jobs, we would've still moved to the same crappy apartments. Because, geez, life is really hard, and when you meet someone who wants to share it with you and be your partner along the way, you take their hand and say "Let's go for it!". I'm glad we didn't wait, because now this year, we get to go on a great vacation to celebrate our 5th anniversary!

And thank you again zeddie for reminding me how special soulmates are... lately, my husband has been kind of irratating, and I've just been thinking of him as "ugh, that guy who didn't get up with the baby again"...


*I think Rory might be kind of doomed to repeat her mother's legacy of non-committment... if this opportunity with Logan wasn't good enough...?


OK, i am IN TEARS here for your story. Wow. Yes. That's what i am talking about!  When we were introduced to Logan, the writing was so good around him - we SAW all the Warren Beatty stuff - YES!  See, this IS WHAT LIFE IS ABOUT, KIDDIES.... reread the above and TRY to find your soulmate.... Oh, i LOVE how you knew not to care about the other women - yes... that's right.... forget "logic"

Stupid Rory. But had they been able to have on screen soulmate moments, it would have been imposible for her to reject him and SO idiotic that the earth would shift badly and we would all be very very cold for a long time.... And maybe become extinct.

thank YOU for sharing! Your story is SO MUCH BETTER than mine! I Love You now!

ALSO - THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for proving my point. A CAREER IS NOT A SOULMATE. Ok, GOOD, and i mean it, you get it, like i get it and i guess i just feel sorry that many people out there will NOT have it - i mean, i had it briefly, but not for life - and that is very sad - but i had it for several years with this person.  I tasted it at the very least. And it is SO not physical, but the physical of course becomes a big part of it - it is very hard to describe, is it not?

Oh, i like - want to know you now.....  i will PM you. 

OK PEOPLE - we are all sad. SO i am gonna try to work up something funny in my FANS OVER 50 (SENIOR) thread. It is like a ghost town over there cuz everyone went out for a walk to the mall and instead ended up senile and wandering in the woods.. I tripple posted - talking to myself over there.

But GO there for my LAST POST - just a JOKE OF THE DAY if you willl........... THANKS. LOVE YOU BABIES  :-* :-* :-*


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 10, 2007, 07:09:27 am
I disagree with Dani. (Didn't need a spoiler to call that one, didja?)

Talk about married life before the proposal is just fantasizing. The question has to be asked and answered before any meaningful plan can be set in motion.

And with Rory and Logan, the discussion has to be two-way. He didn't allow her any input in the planning, he just dropped the job, house, and avocado tree at her feet like it was a dragon head or something. And because of his choices, he is completely inflexible (or so it would seem) about his plans.

If Rory had really been ready to pick a place, pick one job for life, and settle down with a bag of tortilla chips, it would be one thing. But, like Lorelai in "The Road Trip to Harvard" she hasn't even gotten started with her big dream, she just graduated.

So if I wanted to fake it all out, not only would Logan have a change of heart (or priorities, anyway,) but Rory would get a job at the NYT after all (since she was first alternate or something and somebody had to back out.)

I actually kind of buy that the writers are taking it out on her character. I've heard of that happening. But she didn't seem all that shallow to me, just like someone who could keep her wits about her while the guy was trying to sweep her away. She's come a long way since she started dating him, and doesn't seem so eager to just deal with whatever comes along to be with him anymore.

What drives me to despair is the blase attitude to Luke and Lorelai. I mean, Dani threatened a pole dance if they don't get back together, people!

Besides, Luke hasn't made his big speech yet. lorelai is still confused and hurt over how she could be so sure while he was still so unwilling to take a chance on her, and I have a feeling the explanation's going to sting a little. It doesn't seem like a flat path to me, I wonder how they're going to pull it off. And I heard LG is partially responsible for the dialog.

I just remembered, I need to buy Kleenex.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: runningsb05 on May 10, 2007, 07:16:21 am
Wow. Still can't believe Rory and Logan are gone, broken up, done. We watched the relationship rise, then fall, rise, then fall, rise a lot, and then fall forever. What have these three years been, if they are just going to break it off like this. Rory and Logan have no time now to fix it.

In my opinion it was a horrible break up. Using a proposal to break up. What was he thinking (Dan)? If you really want Rory and Logan to break up, find another way. Using a proposal is just a emotionl break down waiting to happen for us GG fans.

Wow. They're done. What a horrible way to end the greatest show in the world.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: neverapuff on May 10, 2007, 07:24:45 am
How ironic that we spent most of this season beating the dead horse that is Luke and Lorelai and lamenting (at least I was) how rathing boring Rory and Logan had become: well look at as now folks!

I don't have a ton of time, but zeddie, I will PM you back asap! And yes, I can't believe I was able to ignore the other women either ;) Usually I am not so confident. Robert (my guy) would acted shallow, macho, etc. to the bimbos, and yet in the stock room he and I would have this witty banter, talk about music, and it was like he was a differet person. It was like how Logan challenged Rory when they would have their little debates when they first met- I loved those little scenes between them- there was such an intstant spark- that was special! Oh crap...I lost my point.... I don't think R&L needed to get engaged right now, but damnit I will never understand why they had to break up...

edit-now that i'm back, I found my point- all the spontaneous engagements on this show seemed weird to me also, like its a way to solve a problem or something. I know that we joked about moving in together on our first date and probably started talking about getting engaged after being together for 3 months, so maybe I'm not the right person to chime in, hehe. I even went with Robert and picked out my own ring.

And yes, lessa, the fact that Logan said, "this great house to *rent*" shows that Logan wasn't forcing Rory to go CA forever or anything... and she hadn't even really considered any west coast jobs, what would be so terrible about going there for a few years?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: laurla205 on May 10, 2007, 08:30:15 am
Okay lessa, leave the I told you so, but it would be perfectly understandable despite your feelings on what maybe should happen :D

So thereís thought that the R/L breakup was used to illustrate L/L differences.† Ouch.† Is that all Rory is?† A contrivance used to show her mom how to live, love, and understand/relate to others?† Never mind the fact that it should be the other way around, thatís just low.† I understand that Lorelai is emotionally stunted in the romance department but taking cues from Rory, and those cues being written in with only that goal, is just not right.† If she and Luke would get over themselves and just have an adult conversation none of these crutches would be necessary.† I know Iím jumping back and forth from the writers to the characters so I will explain.† Lorelai and Luke have issues that are in character and believable and very much a real part of their story.† If this is indeed why the R/L breakup occured, itís as if the writers couldnít figure out how to get these two (Lorelai and Luke) to fully realize and come to terms with their mistakes and their differences so they just threw in a breakup (of the other main character and what happens to be one of the most stable relationships on the show) to facilitate L/L.† †How about the principal of them (again Lorelai and Luke) finding their way back to each other on their own and learning the things they needed to through each other and some calm and well thought out explanations?† I also understand that neither of them really knows what they want from each other but itís pretty clear that at the least they want a friendship and this type of resolution is also required to mend a friendship, so it works no matter where theyíre headed.† Oh but wait, that wouldnít be packed with drama to screw any growth anyone has shown and letís just box.† † :fight:

I do also think that Rory and Logan needed to have a longer conversation, his rational outside at the party was fitting and her answer at the time was okay (although I really like the whispering in his ear about her setting the date and then a yes, kudos to whoever it was that suggested that) seeing as though it was sprung on her without any prior marriage discussions (I suppose the HBM statements could be seen as somewhat of a discussion but the word married didnít enter that conversation so I donít count it).† So I can understand taking a little time to digest and think about it.† Iím not going to go into detail on the hesitation for this reason; I donít necessarily think it means they werenít meant to be considering the situation but at the same time when you know, you know and darn it I think she knows but is ignoring it for this intangible wide openness.† Anyway, a nice long conversation was needed, not a quickie attempt at her graduation ceremony.† Which I also understand, this would be hanging over them until she gave an answer but go back to the apartment after the ceremony and talk there, all of the Gilmores (and Haydens :o) would have understood.† I re-watched the proposal and rejection scenes this morning.† Before anyone calls me cold and heartless, it was necessary to for me to clarify my thoughts.† And I can concede the tiniest bit and say that Rory tried to throw out the LD suggestion in a softer manner than Iíd originally remembered.† But she didn't try nearly hard enough to keep the man she ďloves so muchĒ.†

As to soul mate connections.† Well I think when weíre referring to the show itís all relative and in the eye of each beholder just like chemistry is.† I definitely saw a profound connection between these two on more than one occasion.† Even the way he told her she was beautiful at the graduation party was deep.† Of course, he knew what he was about to do but it was there and she was just as much in the moment as he was in that particular instance.† I could go back and reference the scene which is ruined for the moment, the jumping, well I canít go into detail but everyone knows what I am talking about, and I saw something there.† Loganís apologies, both of their ILYís, the YDN save from Parisí meltdown, living together, the farewell party, Partings (which was mentioned and I also believe it was a very touching scene), their texting, his surprise visits, their ability to work through problems, their solidarity in the face of Mitchum.† I could keep going but these are several of the places I saw something there and believe it did exist.†

A LD relationship while Logan was in London and a LD relationship in response to the proposal is not the same thing.† But I think Dani covered that perfectly and I donít want to seem repetitive.† I donít see that Logan wrote out her life for her, that was another a sarcastic comment of mine, he was offering a home base which is not a terrible thing in any way.† He was offering her support.† Working at the Chronicle or the other paper he mentioned wasnít a demand it was an option, to show that he thought he had considered every concern they could have had.† Logan didnít set out to make her graduation all about him.† He set out to make it one of the happiest days of her life.† If the girl canít handle more than one serious event at a time sheís going to have problems down the line because life doesnít come at you one thing at a time.† It just doesnít work like that, everything comes at you at once sometimes and you learn to balance it and deal with it, you donít cut portions out because they become too much to handle, thatís part of the fun of life.†

Thank you neverapuff and zeddie for sharing your stories, they are very touching.†

And I had stopped until I read lessaís response.† Hmm, talk about marriage before a proposal is fantasizing.† But its conversation and it shows that both parties are considering it and on the same page or not.† It can turn into a serious conversation with serious results.† Doesnít have to, but it can.† If these two had even discussed it Logan would have known that Rory didnít want to commit until a couple more things in her life were decided.† †And I donít think Logan was proposing settling in CA for life, they would only be renting the house after all, but Iím pretty sure that was just to make your point.† Sheís going to have to make some concrete decisions soon enough.† If the series were to continue she could have taken all the time in the world to pick her paths but she doesnít have that time.†


Ah, Bob Dylan made my morning today.† I flipped through the channels and on came Like a Rolling Stone on my way into work.† How inappropriate and appropriate at the same time.

*sings* You've gone to the finest school all right, Miss LonelyÖ How does it feel To be on your own With no direction homeÖ


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: ykgc on May 10, 2007, 09:12:59 am
I don't post much, but am a longtime fan (have seen every episode) and short time reader of this forum. I felt compelled to write that I sort of agreed with the person who said that they were glad the show was ending because of how messed up the writing has been and what they did to the characters. After the last 2 episodes, I agreed. These are not our people. The writing has them behaving so out of character. I thought it was getting better, but then I thought the karaoke episode was a slide back and so was this episode. But just as I was sitting down to write it, the link to Lorelai on YouTube singing was right in front of me, so I clicked on it and watched it again. I was crying within seconds. It was great. She was great. Luke was great. Rory was great. Miss Patty was great. OK. I'm very sad the show is ending.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 10, 2007, 09:24:17 am
The point about her settling down is that Logan's job is just as demanding and has as much potential as her prospects, and he isn't likely to give it up once he gets some momentum. Nor would Rory want him to, anymore than Lane wanted Zach to give up Vapor Rub because she couldn't follow him. Or anymore than Zach wanted Lane to give up her support structure so they could move forward together.

It would seem that to Logan, a relationship like Lane and Zach's would be a step backwards. But I still think that Rory would have kept the ring if Logan had made that compromise.

And I can't take seriously any discussion about marriage that includes the word "someday." A permanent arrangement can be reached without a marriage, but a marriage can't be arranged without at least a modicum of consent. Don't get me wrong, knowing the answer in advance is a benefit if you're proposing in public. But some people don't know without asking. Heck, some people (Rory) don't even know until they've been asked.

So here's the thing, Logan has changed a lot. He's graduated from Yale and his family busines, and now he is essentially rootless. If he's as much like Lorelai as they've finally admitted he is, he's probably desperate for some anchor that will make him feel like he's home. Lorelai had a baby, and Logan wants a wife. Hmm, I don't think Lindsay's seeing anyone right now...

But while Dean was wrong about Lorelai's unwillingness to get static, he was on-the-nose about Rory. She gets bored, she breaks out and finds a new horizon. She no longer retreats into novels, but keeps clippings of her favorite newspaper articles from around the world. She wants to go places and have big newsworthy adventures. That used to be pie and cake to Logan, but now he craves stability that she isn't ready to give him.

I Like Rory and Logan together, I really do. And I think the character is perfect the way she is, even if it means she's unwilling to give up her big dreams for her big love. It seems immature that her feelings aren't in the right place, but I think Lorelai had a point, too. Isn't one of the core tenets of the show that being with the "right" right guy means you don't have to let go of everything else to make it work?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 10, 2007, 10:42:03 am
I disagree with Dani. (Didn't need a spoiler to call that one, didja?)

Talk about married life before the proposal is just fantasizing. The question has to be asked and answered before any meaningful plan can be set in motion.

I suppose my brother and Paul Reiser (My Two Dads, Mad About You, Alien -just clarifying for those who might not have seen any of these) are a minority of two.  Like I said, my brother discussed marriage before proposing.  And, I know from reading Couplehood that Paul Reiser knew his wife was going to say yes when he asked formally because they had discussed it.  And, I didn't say you needed to have all your plans post wedding set, but at least it helps to know (not assume) that you'll get the answer you want.  So, some people do just risk everything and ask blind.  But, some people (and if there are two, there are more, we humans are neither as unique or common as we like to think) do bring up the subject of marriage before formally asking the question.


Quote
I actually kind of buy that the writers are taking it out on her character. I've heard of that happening.


Why would they want to take it out on her character?  Do you mean an actress thing?  Take it out on Alexis by writing that for Rory?  Or something else?
Quote
What drives me to despair is the blase attitude to Luke and Lorelai. I mean, Dani threatened a pole dance if they don't get back together, people!

Hey!  I may need to lose some weight, but I don't think the idea of me pole dancing should drive you to despair!  But, seriously, I've never been an L/L shipper, and a certain overwhelming attitude about their importance and lack of importance of people who just don't ship them makes me hate them.  I'm fully aware of the inevitability of them getting back together, but constantly being told that EVERYONE wants them to get back together -including Alzheimer's patients, people on death row, and the Amish, and the implication that I don't exist (or I exist, but like those other pesky non L/L shippers, it's better that they stay a shameful little secret)  makes it impossible  for me to ever like them.  And, then,even the speculation that these writers would break up Rory and Logan for that??  *flames shoot out of head*  I mean, at least the idea of breaking them up because Rory has to be single (which I disagree with -maybe at one time that's how her story went, but that's another thing) allows for the writers to make a decision on Rory's storyline based on what they think is good or necessary for Rory.  Nope, never never never going to be anything more enthusiastic than blase, and it would take an effort to work up to blase now. *spins on poll*



Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Arlinda on May 10, 2007, 10:45:47 am
Regarding the season finale
I am sad to see the show end so poorly.  I miss the original writers - They kept the magic going for the previous 6 seasons, this last season was painful for me.  From the beginning until today.  I keep watching because I love the characters not the writing.

Regarding the Logan and Rory marriage proposal
Logan was not really in love the idea of being a good husband...if you look at that scene at the graduation, when he is trying to convince Rory to marry him - he describes what this marriage means to him.  He describes it like the time they were in the "life or death brigade" and they were going to take a leap.  A leap that just meant another way for him to get his kicks and see how it goes.  Logan really hasn't changed.  He is still a thrill-seeker - he did it with his business venture, also when he went to hang out with his old friends, did you see him at the graduation? LOL - what's with the thumbs up sign he was doing.  That was idiotic to write in.  Also, the rental situation in California just tells me that he isn't even going to commit to an address.

I don't love this season and how long and drawn-out it has been.  I am not looking forward to the last episode.  I know I am not going to be amazed by the 40 minutes left of writing.  We are all going to be disappointed.  The only positive side to the finale and cancellation is that the writer can't destroy the characters any further.

Luv you guys.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 10, 2007, 11:10:32 am
Sorry, I was exaggerating the horror and I misjudged my own comedic hyperbole. (Boob Fairy!) There are probably lots of people here who want to see Dani on a pole. I guess I meant that I can understand being blase about Luke & Lorelai, I just don't see why anyone would be opposed to them working it out. To the point of elation if they don't, I mean.

And I'm familiar with Paul Reiser's work, but I think you made my point. Paul Reiser and his wife agreed to marry before they began working out the details (like the guest list for the "official" proposal.)

By taking it out on her character, I mean, they're giving her the Jessica Biel treatment, making Rory seem like she can't get serious about a single option because they resent Alexis's lack of commitment to the team. But it's pure speculation, as I remain politically oblivious to any theoretical resentment caused by the continuation controversy.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 10, 2007, 11:30:55 am
Almost everyone I've known have rented houses.  Not many people I know can afford to buy a house.  Renting-a sign of a transient personality.  *plays NBC chimes*  The more you know. *NBC chimes*

Of course, it's not uncommon for people to move from more than one house within the course of their lifetime.  Sure, sometimes you have a family home and stay for decades, but moving isn't a sign of anything, except you're moving.  I've lived in various houses (rented!) and it didn't hurt me.  But, renting isn't in and of itself a sign that you're not settling down.  It's a sign that you're renting.

Considers responding to rest of post.  Decides it's an exercise in futility. 
Quote
Paul Reiser and his wife agreed to marry before they began working out the details (like the guest list for the "official" proposal.)

I don't have the book on hand, but I do recall him saying that he was nervous when he asked his wife but he didn't know why since they had already talked and he knew (because she literally told him she would, not because he assumed they were on the same page) she'd say yes when he asked.  So, I didn't mean deciding all the details beforehand, just kind of finding out that you're both in the same place as far as whether or not you both want to get married in a concrete way before the actual proposal. 

But, why should it be surprising that someone might not want L/L together or even be happy to see them break up?  People were happy when Lorelai and Christopher broke up.  When Rory and Logan broke up.  Lorelai and Jason, Lorelai and Max, Rory and Dean, Rory and Jess.  I'm sure there are people out there that wish Lane and Zach had never gotten back together.  I wouldn't fall over in astonishment if there were anti Paris and Doyle people.  I bet somewhere in the mass of Gilmore fans, someone wishes that Richard would dump Emily, or vice versa.  Just like every character on this show is hated by someone watching, every ship is open to people hating it.

And, I got the joke about my pole dancing *shakes her booty for good measure*  I guess I just come off as overly serious, even online.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: AbFab on May 10, 2007, 12:25:47 pm
I agree with those who stated that Rory and Logan are not too young. I mean they've both graduated from college it's not like they are 16 and 17!

Also, I never "just knew" that I was going to marry my husband. No body in this world is perfect, hence there's something wrong with them that might annoy/bother you and you'd think twice about marrying them. Therefore you don't "just know" when it's right.

I'm so sad that GG is over! This show has helped me to take my mind off some really really tough times in my life. I will really miss this show.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 10, 2007, 12:27:56 pm
I agree about the rented housing thing - maybe they just didn't want to get Logan too locked in, out of sympathy for the character. Or to indicate (quite accurately, imho) that Logan will be brilliantly successful for a loooong time before he can afford to buy a house in southern California.

In any case, unlike Mr. and Mrs. Paul Reiser, Logan and Rory had yet to discuss it at all at the time of his proposal. Instead they discussed it after the question, but before the answer. The discussion went badly when Logan added a lot of qualifications to the proposal.

More to the point, I know Logan knows he's ready, but is he more committed to his momentum than he is to Rory? (As, not to put too fine a point on it, Lorelai was with Luke.) Lorelai hasn't changed her mind about Luke's untenability yet, but Luke has changed, so she might.

By the same token, Rory would have to change to be right for the new-and-improved Logan. She may trade in the potential for professional globetrotting or another shot at The Times for Logan's stability and his avocado tree (I love referring to that avocado tree.) I really think she may. But not if Logan insists on behaving like one of her options instead of part of her team.


Title: RE:
Post by: neverapuff on May 10, 2007, 12:30:59 pm
Quote from Dani-"Almost everyone I've known have rented houses.† Not many people I know can afford to buy a house.† Renting-a sign of a transient personality.† *plays NBC chimes*† The more you know. *NBC chimes*


Considers responding to rest of post.† Decides it's an exercise in futility/"



Is that last part directed towards me, considering I'm the one that recently brought up the renting thing? If so, please go ahead, because this is the first time I believe you have at least alluded to something that I have mentioned...
edit- man, I really don't know how to do this quoting thing...

Maybe it just comes down to options and goals and the fact that Logan changed and Rory didn't... people change, and if, as a couple you don't change together, or can't at least meld and be symbiotic, then you can't be together- maybe it is simple...


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 10, 2007, 12:38:31 pm
You're doing fine. I remember when I was still working it out, almost every post was all purple. I kept leaving stray tags in. :D


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 10, 2007, 12:57:20 pm
HEY DEUCE  - (laura205)

I did think of those scenes in the hospital, etc. in fact, i do believe there are enuf good scenes that should have made Rory just go for it.  What i meant was, i could not REMEMVBER one full=blown "Heathcliff" moment - off the top of my head. I did not mean to infer that i saw no possibilities, and i am sorry if i did give that impression.  Quite the contrary i actually agree with you. 

Ok, for example, there could have been a scene where Rory actually says, "Logan, i don't know how to say this but - i think you are my soulmate"

There was a scene in  Oh crap what is the movie - hold while i GOOGLE.... Something's Gotta Give - where Jack Nicholson looks at Diane Keaton and (well he has been talking about how meaningful the connection had been AND he also had just almost died, ala Logan) Anyway, Jack's character says, "I even thought at one point - 'soulmates'"  And Diane sort of nods in agreement (i think she is shocked - i would be!)  Ok, Deuce, so what i meant was, if someone said to me, "Zeddie, tell me the scene where you KNOW there will not be a better choice than Logan" - i guess i cannot do that beyond a shadow of a doubt, but i would point to the body of scenes that leads up to a soulmate future...  Did that make any sense ???

Ok, i wanted to clarify that and here is why:  Part of the reason i am so ticked at the falseness of the breakup IS because of some very carefully crafted things...Such as (forgive any repetition - there are so many words on this thread i am going dizzy!)

SOULMATE TYPE INDICATIONS / FORESHADOWING....

* Logan instinctively knowing he could NOT just plough forward, as he would with any other girl - i think MAYBE Rory was the first girl who made him look first and then leap
*Everything that happened at the wedding where they danced i mean, if that was not a big green arrow "this one" i don't know what was!
*Logan let Rory in on the Brigade thing.
*Logan insisted Rory jump with him - that was one of the first real tests and a real indication - foreshadowing, "Rory is the one for me" - i mean, you had to read that into it right?  Logan wanted Rory to trust him, follow him if necessary, put her hand in his - he was already trying the idea on for size.  That is what i read into that.
*How he was SOOO jealous to see her with another man. He was already "owning her" in his mind
* Sticking by her regardless of family.
*Sticking with her no matter what
*Going toe to toe with Lorelai when necessary - never wavering really, in how much he wanted her to be his woman (if you will pardon how neanderthall that sounded)
*And this for me was HUGE - the words he chose (they wrote) on his sick bed, when he said, "just be patient with me Rory" - i mean, that MEANS, "You are the one, but i am just adjusting, don't leave me, i am gonna be here for you, stay with me - it's you and me kid, marry me in the future." FOR ME there was no other way to read that.
* Paris's very deliberate statements "You're Annette Benning - you bagged the Whale- Warren Beatty"  however she said those things - more than once. She frequently called him young Warren Beatty. 
* Logan calls her GIRLFRIEND - for the FIRST time.
*The entire dinner thing
*How they were with each other after he almost died from the jump - that was like - I WAS SO HAPPY after that because i actualy thought 'That seals it, they are getting married - YEAH!"
*The times of forgiveness, when another couple would just - break-up from the pressure. But no, they stayed together!
* I'll think of more later.

OK? So i guess what i was realy trying to say before was that there was maybe no "Heathcliff" moment.  (btw - you all know what i mean, right?)
Wuthering Heights. There is that speach were there is no more doubt about how Cathy is eternally devoted to Heathcliff. And of course we already know he is to her.  I mean, that movie - is the poster movie for two souls that are inseparable (even by death it seems). I cannot think of a more moving statement of devotion than Wuthering Heights. Even strange devotion sometimes.  But see, i understand W.H on my own level and so do many of us....

{SIDEBAR: To me, Logan was much more "Heathcliff" than Rory was Heathcliff.  In fact, Rory was a bit Cathy - she showed more hesitancy, although she was first to say I LOVE YOU.  Yeah, she said that first (after her mother's prodding) but - I think Logan actually said more things, all totalled up.  For me, the "bridesmaids" thing? - Sorry, but that was a LITERARY FART - no other way to say it. That's like a Musical Fart - only stinkier.  That BM thing did not belong in their story - it was incongruent FOR ME}

Rory and Logan are young- ish. NOW if there was another season, see, they could realize the mistake - both of them, and come back together AS IN Wuthering Heights.  Heathcliff is nastily rejected - so he leaves in a huff - he travels far, makes something of himself, but he cannot be away from Cathy anymore, so he returns - and finds Cathy married to the neighbor for real.  Well - Cathy proves that she still loves Heathcliff - they have a sort of reconcilation, but on her deathbed. Basically, she dies for him - she cannot have him, so she dies of a broken heart - sort of trumping his jesture.  Very well written, even for a maudlin attempt.  It works - you cry at the end. She is smiling, because at least she knows they are still so deeply in love and connected. Her spirit haunts him - and he eventually follows her spirit to the craig (their castle) and freezes there, joining her in the afterlife.  AH-AAAH -AH AHHHHH. FADE OUT.

Wow - my brain must have been sonstipated all right..........   Sorry.  Did that smell bad too ???   :P


Title: Re: RE:
Post by: Dani257 on May 10, 2007, 12:59:13 pm
Quote from Dani-"Almost everyone I've known have rented houses.  Not many people I know can afford to buy a house.  Renting-a sign of a transient personality.  *plays NBC chimes*  The more you know. *NBC chimes*


Considers responding to rest of post.  Decides it's an exercise in futility/"



Is that last part directed towards me, considering I'm the one that recently brought up the renting thing? If so, please go ahead, because this is the first time I believe you have at least alluded to something that I have mentioned...


edit- man, I really don't know how to do this quoting thing...

No, if you mentioned the rent thing, I didn't see it.  I was responding to:
Quote
Also, the rental situation in California just tells me that he isn't even going to commit to an address.

People "commit" to an address when they rent all the time.  With the exception of a few times when my family knew we were in a temporary situation from the start (like living with relatives) I don't we ever rented a house with the idea from the start that it was meant to be temporary.  That we went in from the outset deciding not to commit.  But, like I said, renting is normal to me.  It's not a sign of commitment.  Some people do live for years in the same house that they rented. 

Quote
In any case, unlike Mr. and Mrs. Paul Reiser, Logan and Rory had yet to discuss it at all at the time of his proposal. Instead they discussed it after the question, but before the answer. The discussion went badly when Logan added a lot of qualifications to the proposal.

I think we're talking at cross purposes.  I wasn't saying Logan and Rory had done that.  I was saying I wish they would have done it. But, then, likely there wouldn't have been a break up.   And, then, I was just making a general statement that in my opinion surprise marriage proposals are too risky.  So, if any of you big boys here want to pop the question with me, introduce the subject up theoretically, before you do it an official capacity.  *tosses hair seductively*


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 10, 2007, 01:02:00 pm
I agree about the rented housing thing - maybe they just didn't want to get Logan too locked in, out of sympathy for the character. Or to indicate (quite accurately, imho) that Logan will be brilliantly successful for a loooong time before he can afford to buy a house in southern California.

In any case, unlike Mr. and Mrs. Paul Reiser, Logan and Rory had yet to discuss it at all at the time of his proposal. Instead they discussed it after the question, but before the answer. The discussion went badly when Logan added a lot of qualifications to the proposal.

More to the point, I know Logan knows he's ready, but is he more committed to his momentum than he is to Rory? (As, not to put too fine a point on it, Lorelai was with Luke.) Lorelai hasn't changed her mind about Luke's untenability yet, but Luke has changed, so she might.

By the same token, Rory would have to change to be right for the new-and-improved Logan. She may trade in the potential for professional globetrotting or another shot at The Times for Logan's stability and his avocado tree (I love referring to that avocado tree.) I really think she may. But not if Logan insists on behaving like one of her options instead of part of her team.


Crap, i am not meaning to double post - what am i doing here - i was trying to add it on....

Ok, just one comment - i think sometimes lessa and others maybe are giving the "engineers" of this little expedition too much credit - i think sometimes they wake up and say, "Oh crap, the scripts are due today - where are my pants?"  ???

DISCLAIMER: btw - in my big Heathcliff post, i wanna say -that is an example of obsessive, destructive and manipulative behavior - it leaves the rhealm of "soulmate" and into some twisted obsessive - death causing thing. NOT GOOD. I do not what anyone thinking i condone that or that i think, "wow, that is love" - i should have said that earlier - you have to separate the good from the bad in that movie to see both the good and the bad, IMO. Thanks.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreAddict7899 on May 10, 2007, 01:23:18 pm
Im sorry, but why are you happy gilmore girls is ending?!

Because of the damage the writers have done to the characters and their lives.†

I live in uber happy world.† :D† In my world, Logan and Rory got married and Rory found 100 different opportunities to choose from and they set a wedding date for a year in the future.† And then Luke kissed Lorelai like he really meant it and she realized she didn't HAVE to have a wedding ring.†

But that's not the real world.† ;)†

Instead, Luke became emasculated because Lorelai asked him to marry her, then he found out he had a kid of his own that his ex wife just had to FIGHT over (instead of the writers celebrating Luke learning about fatherhood).† Lorelai about bust a gut when he wouldn't marry her and then she forced him for an ultimatum (yeah, that's what a guy really wants), then when he wouldn't acquiesce, she ran off and slept with Christopher.† Then because she was so needy, she married Christopher so she wouldn't have to be alone.† Then she showed Chris what she REALLY thought about him when she couldn't get excited about their REAL wedding.† Then she was alone again because Chris realized she didn't love him and she mourned the loss of Luke, but instead of being honest with Luke about her feelings they have some veiled argument over Rory's breaking up with Logan like she and Luke were still in high school and .... yikes, I'm depressing myself!†

This show could have done so much to show the incredible strength that today's single mom's need as they raise their kids and for a while it did.† Then Amy got bored and screwed everything up.

Every interview I've seen where they've talked to the actors on the Gilmore Girls, they said the thing they loved about doing the show the most was the incredible writing.† That's not what they've been getting.† I'm not one for making an actor do something they hate.† Scott's an amazing actor, both he and Lauren should be out doing films now.† They both know how slow the shooting process is for films compared to the breakneck speed they have to learn their TV scripts in.† I don't blame them for wanting to have the opportunity to seek out incredible scripts instead of just doing mediocre work.† I think they've handled it as gracefully as possible without pointing fingers at the writers, like say for example, Kyle Chandler did after they screwed up Early Edition by creating a story line and filling it with a prima donna like Kristy Swanson.† He was pretty harsh with his words about ending the show in the last season that aired.† Everyone I know who met him in person as a fan said he was just as sweet a southern gentleman as you could ask for, but when it came to ending that show...

So, you can see why I am all for the actors going out when they felt it was right and keeping their happy memories.† Maybe 10 years from now we'll get a Gilmore Girls movie of the week or something.† I'd love to see Lorelai with a husband who loves her and two or three more kids and I'd love to see Rory have some confidence to strike out on her own and know she can make great things happen all by herself...even after she's stumbled.† I think that's what we'd hope for anyone.



your right...i agree with everything you said but im still sad its going.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 10, 2007, 01:28:40 pm
the quotes within quotes is making me dizzy, so i don't reaaly know who i am agreeing with ok? but i really like what is above my head.  :P

I like the many points made. I would add, writers of episodic TV (that also has a running storyline - series arc) have to do a couple things - move along the story line and also give the motivation for it, AND create the drama and conflicts that resolve within one show or hang as a cliffhanger for another show.  Ok, i am not telling any tales, we all know this.  But what i mean is, i think writers get into this rut like "Oh, who is gonna grow another hand off the side of her face this week - or did we already do that too many times?

I believe that people behind TV shows MISTAKENLY believe that all of the viewers want outrageous, conflicting, darkly strange and tear jerking CRAP to happen on these shows, when in reality, plenty of people are fine with a bit of drama but MORE fine with great dialog, some happy endings, friendships, good love-relationships.  I think many of us tire of  yet another illegitimate child (i don't have any - well, none that i know of...)  and we just wanna see some great moments and some challenges and surprises.  But OY with the POODLES and the breakups already!  I can get that right here, ok?  >:(

Sex and the City dealt with a lot of these same issues, but did it with more class than a lot of these so-called "family shows" if you ask me, ok, there were some fun words thrown in, but i mean, they stayed away from the hackneyd (sp?) cliches of "Oh he has a kid" except Miranda did get pregnant- but that is different than a skeleton) and they managed to deal with serious things, without me saying, "Oh COME ON!" even one time. And people got married, and people had soulmates in the end... So if Sex and the City can do it, how come GG managed to mangle itself?

PS. i agree with Dani257 (i think) or whomever said, "Why did they waste time on Zach with our Girls having so much more to wrap up. AND HOW! What about the Emily / Lorelai relationship? Or even Logan and his parents - would be more important than Zack changing diapers or whatever. He got cringy and boring to me at the end of this season........ I liked the BAND quite a bit better i think than Zach the dad - all in all.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: laurla205 on May 10, 2007, 01:37:57 pm
No one is asking Rory to let go of everything else, thatís what Iím hung up on (well one of the things).† No one is really asking her to let go of anything.† Iím all for reaching for the stars and all, I just think people can reach for more than one at a time without the stars interfering with each other and causing a new big bang.†

I honestly didnít see Roryís no as having anything to do with Loganís job (and his motivation) other than the location, not that she said anyway, her no was all about her options.† Maybe we could derive that his career would hinder her but I didnít hear it anywhere.† No job is permanent (rarely anyway) and anywhere they went they would have had to deal with the possibility of job changes and the moves required by it, thatís not only a result of marriage especially if they really were going to factor each other in anyway.†

As far as the rental, what I meant there (even though I now realize that was not response to my comment) was that it doesnít automatically imply permanence.† Renting and buying alike I guess, although it is easier to move from a rental than to sell a house.† Renting has been easier for me to make temporary when I needed to, short leases and the ability to break them if needed, etc.† But youíre right there are people that live in the same rental house or apartment most of their adult lives, especially in the bigger cities where housing is so costly.†

Okay, I know nothing about Paul Reiserís personal life despite liking Mad About You.† How were his talks before an official proposal different from anyone elseís?† His wife told him she would say yes?† Doesnít that question come in up any marriage talks?† Consideration/conversation doesnít always equal a yes, of course, but thatís what the talk is for even if the fact that the talk itself is hypothetical - it always will be because the official question is not being asked.†

Hey, theyíre getting shorter!†

Hmm, pole dancing.† Now that takes coordination.

Oh boy, moving quickly again, maybe it wonít be short at all. †The hospital zed, how did I miss those? †There was the Ďyou belong to meí convo. †That could be pretty Heathcliffy. †(Never seen Wuthering Heights but it does make sense to me, I think.) †I would agree that Logan was more Heathcliff because even in the 'you belong to me' convo he was the one fully admitting it first and making Rory realize why and that she felt (not any more, or maybe she really didn't in the first place) the same way even if she didn't realize it.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 10, 2007, 01:46:03 pm
TOUCY TOPIC HERE...

I am curious, who found their soulmate /a soulmate-ish person and is currently with that person
Who is stil looking
Who messed something up (that would be me)


OK - this is personal, and your signif. other could read it. Maybe i am being to nosey - but i only wanna know as a matter of taking a poll.. OH, hey is that possible?

CAN I DO A POLL MYSELF? then it is anonymous. But i mean, we are batting about these issues, and only some of us have spilt the pork and beans about stuff. So i am just wondering - Well, is everyone out there hooked up and happy or are more people divorced or did anyone get locked in the baseement (i had Uncle Phil on, and this dude is way possessive - obsessive - over his wife, and she is afraid, etc. Abbusive. And then i thought - Gee this could be someone on the forum or down the street. You dont know, and here i am. lalalala, talking about this and that because i have been very lucky - or smart one or the other  - i have never been struck by a man - just cheated on of course. But no physical abuse. No verbal abuse i could not easily handle.  I guess when i "preach" i should remember - someone reading may have a bad situation, and i would be very sorry about that.

Ok, well, i just wondered is all.   thanks


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: LoraleiAndLuke4EVA on May 10, 2007, 01:56:31 pm
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH OMG I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE THAT GILMORE GIRLS IS ENDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M GONNA CRY MY EYES OUT ON THE LAST EPISODE. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
 † † † † † † † † † † † † † † † † † † † † † † † † Kate


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 10, 2007, 01:58:14 pm
I don't know if Rory/Logan fit into the need for break ups that tv writers seem to cling to, but I do agree that they have this mistaken need for it.  I'm not sure about the R/L break up, because that was done at the end of the story, not at the start or the middle.  And, usually, they have break ups and couples with illegitimate children, and being stranded on separate deserted islands and all that muck so that people will keep watching wondering when they'll get back together.  And, I think that's because writers have twisted Tolstoy.  He said, "Happy families are all alike" which has since been bastardized (perfectly legitimate word) by television writers as "Happy stable couples are all boring."  I think both Leo and the writers of television have it wrong. 

And, pole dancing takes coordination?  Okay, you can stop covering your eyes.  I'm out.

Okay, if they never got back together I'd, um, I'd go out in the street and sing "I Could Have Danced All Night" from My Fair Lady.  Even though my singing is about as lovely as my pole dancing would be.

Locked in a basement?  I feel I've missed a train of conversation.  Um, I'm single, always have been.  Have no immediate desire to get married. Not opposed to the idea of marriage completely, but feel I can be perfectly happy and content single.  Not sure if that's at all the gist of what you wanted to know.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: .::fleet::. on May 10, 2007, 03:13:27 pm
Quote
And with Rory and Logan, the discussion has to be two-way. He didn't allow her any input in the planning, he just dropped the job, house, and avocado tree at her feet like it was a dragon head or something. And because of his choices, he is completely inflexible (or so it would seem) about his plans.

If Rory had really been ready to pick a place, pick one job for life, and settle down with a bag of tortilla chips, it would be one thing. But, like Lorelai in "The Road Trip to Harvard" she hasn't even gotten started with her big dream, she just graduated.

So if I wanted to fake it all out, not only would Logan have a change of heart (or priorities, anyway,) but Rory would get a job at the NYT after all (since she was first alternate or something and somebody had to back out.)

I actually kind of buy that the writers are taking it out on her character. I've heard of that happening. But she didn't seem all that shallow to me, just like someone who could keep her wits about her while the guy was trying to sweep her away. She's come a long way since she started dating him, and doesn't seem so eager to just deal with whatever comes along to be with him anymore.
Amen!

I understand that the Logan and Rory fans are just sad that they broke up, so that is why they can't see how unfair it would be for Rory to just get up and follow Logan around the country. I'm sad that they had to break up too. Or did they? I haven't read the spoilers, but there is one more episode left, who knows what will happen? Maybe Logan will realize how self-centered his ultimatum was, and reconsider. Maybe he will ask her to marry him again and say: " Marry me Rory, I will follow YOU wherever you want to go". Then Rory will say " I want to go to Palo Alto with you. ". And they'll live happily ever after. Hey, one can dream.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: laurla205 on May 10, 2007, 03:15:54 pm
Severely OT because Iím getting weary.†

Well they have classes for it...† Pole dancing I mean.† I imagine it takes more coordination than dancing on a bar and Iíve almost fallen off one of those so yeah more coordination that I could ever hope to have anyway.† Now the singing that might make it all a little easier to take.

Whoís in a basement, did I type that?† Whoís on first?† Where are my pants anyway?† Oh, sheís talking about relationships with maybe emotional, verbal or physical abuse and that us going on about true love might be hurtful or trivial to someone in that type of situation.†

Engaged to be married in the fall.† Quite sure heís a soul mate of sorts, although I donít really like the term soul mate, we are very much connected.† Known him for a little over ten years and only dated the previous four.† Happily settled in the burbs.† Surprisingly enough I never had a strong desire to get married until four years ago, maybe a little earlier, and I definitely didnít want a family.† And no it doesnít help me to understand Rory any more in this situation.† If I had seen in him then what I see now I would have changed everything.†

I believe you can create a poll on any thread for which you are the owner, zed.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: khadijahnm on May 10, 2007, 03:53:30 pm
I just saw this on the CW website, so I thought I would post it for those fans whose episode was interrupted.

Gilmore Girls and Veronica Mars
to Rebroadcast Saturday, May 12th

(May 10, 2007 at 5:31 pm ∑ Filed under CW NEWS, Network News, SHOWS, Gilmore Girls, Veronica Mars )

On Tuesday, May 8, KTLA interrupted episodes of Gilmore Girls and Veronica Mars in order to bring Los Angeles viewers live breaking news coverage of the wildfire burning in Griffith Park.

The interrupted episodes will be rebroadcast in their entirety on Saturday, May 12. The schedule is as follows:

8:00 p.m.: Gilmore Girls
9:00 p.m. Veronica Mars

We appreciate your patience in this situation and thank you for your loyalty to the shows. Enjoy!

 





Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreAddict7899 on May 10, 2007, 05:12:18 pm
Is this ^ for everyone..like aorund the US...befause i just check my listing on my TV and it doesnt say gilmroe gilrs is on that time.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: willowsprite on May 10, 2007, 05:26:07 pm
the quotes within quotes is making me dizzy, so i don't reaaly know who i am agreeing with ok? but i really like what is above my head.† :P

I believe that people behind TV shows MISTAKENLY believe that all of the viewers want outrageous, conflicting, darkly strange and tear jerking CRAP to happen on these shows, when in reality, plenty of people are fine with a bit of drama but MORE fine with great dialog, some happy endings, friendships, good love-relationships.† I think many of us tire of† yet another illegitimate child (i don't have any - well, none that i know of...)† and we just wanna see some great moments and some challenges and surprises.† But OY with the POODLES and the breakups already!† I can get that right here, ok?† >:(

PS. i agree with Dani257 (i think) or whomever said, "Why did they waste time on Zach with our Girls having so much more to wrap up. AND HOW! What about the Emily / Lorelai relationship?

I don't know if Rory/Logan fit into the need for break ups that tv writers seem to cling to, but I do agree that they have this mistaken need for it. I'm not sure about the R/L break up, because that was done at the end of the story, not at the start or the middle. And, usually, they have break ups and couples with illegitimate children, and being stranded on separate deserted islands and all that muck so that people will keep watching wondering when they'll get back together. And, I think that's because writers have twisted Tolstoy. He said, "Happy families are all alike" which has since been bastardized (perfectly legitimate word) by television writers as "Happy stable couples are all boring." I think both Leo and the writers of television have it wrong.

Agree with you both, and the person before zeddie w all the quotes.  You can make couples interesting w/o keeping them apart, just takes work.  Friday Night Lights this season is a good example.  I'm guessing its harder to do that way, since its done so seldom.  And On Logan/Rory, I'm guessing they broke them up thinking there would be a next year, as others have said its makes for a weird finale to have Rory in the thros of a new trauma.  And time on Zack--well I guess it would be for the same reason, they were leaving room for Season 8.  Which is why I think long running series deserve NOTICE when they are ending as courtesy to the cast and crew, and to allow at least the possibility of finishing the story and giving fans the ending it deserves.  Very few shows do this for one reason or another (network execs mainly).  The aforementioned Sex in the City did, but they planned the last season, knew it was the end.  GG didn't so we're stuck.  I am hoping for a movie update sooner rather than later.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Brittney_Gilmore on May 10, 2007, 06:53:15 pm
I liked this episode.
The Kirk in the box was hilarious.
But it's hard to believe that the Gilmore's are almost through. :-[


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: neverapuff on May 10, 2007, 07:07:30 pm
Kirk is supposed to be in the box for 20 days...? I don't think they skip 3 weeks, so Kirk will still be in the box, so that will be our last Kirk moment... I'm not sure if that is a completely appropriate or wasteful way to conclude his character- this is a question I apparently have to ask about every character now.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: ObessedwithGG on May 10, 2007, 07:08:56 pm
I thought I saw him in the preview for next week...so I don't think that'll be his last shot.  Kirk is too much of a essential character of the town to end that way. That would just purely not be right.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: neverapuff on May 10, 2007, 07:12:55 pm
Oh, really? Well, either it wasn't 20 days, or something doesn't compute... but either way, I'm relieved. Kirk is one of my favorite of Stars Hallow's quirkiest, and a finale without him in *classic* form would just not do. I mean, c'mon people, you're killing me here, at least give me some killer deadpan Kirkisms!!!!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: ObessedwithGG on May 10, 2007, 07:23:35 pm
Yup, just went back and rewatched it, and he's definitly there!  Yay Kirk.  He's totally one of my favorite supporting actors ever...gotta love the Kirk.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: dartgrl4u on May 10, 2007, 07:23:44 pm
I don't know if maybe I just missed the cake, but I didn't see one in either Lorelai or Sookie's hands when leaving the bakery. I thought Lorelai said that they were there to pick up the cake, but I didn't notice her leave with one. She even signed the receipt or something...

Sorry if this has already been talked about by the way...

Oh, and just fyi, I am highly disappointed that this upcoming week will be the series finale. I cried (and threw the remote at the television) when I heard the announcer say that. It definitely ranks as one of the most depressing moments in my life. haha


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: calida on May 10, 2007, 07:31:10 pm
I don't think they were picking up the cake. I think they were just checking on it or something and would pick it up later. At least I think so.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: wheredidmickgo on May 10, 2007, 07:57:12 pm
maybe there will be some awesome kirk storyline where he had a panick attack in his box when he saw a squirrel run across the top of the box and had to come down before 20 days? haha, i hope so.

also, did anyone notice that when they were talking about needing tickets for graduation, babbette mentioned that lulu would need one.  she didn't mention kirk...did i miss something or are they still dating?  why would lulu (who has only hung out with rory like 3 times) want to go to graduation without kirk?  strange.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Lauren is my idol on May 10, 2007, 07:57:56 pm
Ok, I don't know if this has been posted already or not, but for those of us in Southern California who missed this episode because of the KTLA News interruption, the episode will be airing Saturday at 8 on the CW.  


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: JG on May 10, 2007, 09:08:52 pm
First, comments on other people's comments:

Wow. Okay, Sookie neumonic (sp?) device? Hahaha.

Since you asked, it's spelled "mnemonic" :->

I can't believe Lorelai didn't have enough sense to figure out "Gee Luke is all of a sudden pissed off, I wonder if he heard me?" HELLO! She's not that dense!

Absolutely agree and I thought the look on her face showed that she *did* think he heard her and had picked the worst possible time to come in. I really thought she was going to mention it later during their conversation outside the diner, that she only said it because of Miss Patty and Babette. I was really surprised that she didn't try to talk to him about it.

Any young girl (or young guy) out there who is applauding Rory - is too young to actualy understand.  I also know young people who got married and are FINE. Life is SO very difficult. Please, if you find a man /a woman to love - don't say, "Oh, but Rory had her career first" - OK?... [snip]

Going off with Logan WAS the thrilling, adventurous, crazy, BOLD spontaneous thing to do! DUH - For Rory to accept and just - GO - that would have been outside her comfort zone - BUT NO, the stupid writers will keep her locked in "unrequited - i need my career - let's look over the next horizon, as long as there are books there" BULLSNOT!

Sorry to disappoint you,  but I'm 52, not a young whippersnapper, and I couldn't disagree with you more. In what universe is marrying a rich guy, moving to a house he's providing for you, and maybe finding a job in the place where he's moving for his job any kind of independent, thrilling, adventurous move? I couldn't think of anything more bourgeoisie if I tried! Saying "I love you and I have pictured being married to you but I want to have some life adventures on my own before I close down all my options" seems a lot more adventurous to me. And I agree with Lorelei: if it was really an "until death do we part" love, then she wouldn't have hesitated when Logan asked her, she would have said Yes and known it was the right thing to do.

Quote
Sorry, little Rory lovers who feel Rory should remain this little girl frozen in time, but I HAVE LIVED ALL THOSE DECADES - i know. I know because i was there already....   I was the free spirit - who looked around one day and realized i had a career and money and lots of things - but no PERSON.  I followed every whim except to find a PERSON - until i was older - when all the good men are married or in their divorces and bitter - I WISH i would have found a man when i was young, but i matured slowly in that department, ok?  I was not even "active" until i was 23 years old. For Rory to develop that far and then - CUT IT OFF? No, that' wrong. Stupid.  Again i say BAD WRITING. Do not let a poorly written show cause you to return a lovely diamond some day when you are 22 and the man of your dreams is before you.

No offense to you or to anyone else who has shared their own stories of love, age of marriage (or not) and so on, but I don't believe there is any way to make a global rule out of one person's experience. The issue should be judged on the character and relationship of the people involved, not some rule that is determined by one person's experience, whether for good or bad. Every person is different and every relationship is different so to say "You should always marry the first guy you fall in love with" or "You should never marry that young" isn't really useful.

It WAS really tacky of Rory to talk to him about something so important in the middle of the campus.  They should have talked about it in a quiet, controlled atmosphere.

A couple of people have mentioned this but I thought Logan pretty much forced her to -- there were a few shots during the graduation segment before that where he kept waving at her, reminding her he was there. I don't see how they could have had a conversation *without* her dealing with the issue, and I don't see how she could have kept ignoring that he was there, either.

(BTW, did anyone else expect a scene right afterward with Emily? I'm sure the whole family was watching and saw her give Logan the ring back and him walk away -- I was sure there was going to be some sort of scene with them right then.)

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That was kinda trashy on Rory's part. Logan's going to be a businessman now. He needs a partner that can show some type of social decorum and I think Rory put the question about whether she has it or not to rest pretty soundly with that last move.

I would think that proposing in front of a bunch of people with no warning and not in a quiet, controlled atmosphere would also be considered trashy, then.

=================================================

As for my own reaction to the episode, I didn't buy the L/L scene at night outside the  diner, especially after last week's episode. (And did anyone else think, as I did, when Lorelei was twitting Luke about hesitating about marriage that, wait a minute, he *was* married before, no matter how stupidly or briefly?) They had made some progress last week in breaching their awkwardness, not to mention the karaoke, and to have it all vanish just because she said something to Babette and Miss Patty didn't work for me.

Regarding Logan's proposal and reaction, obviously based on what I said above, I agreed with Rory's decision. And I wasn't surprised at all that Logan reacted the way he did: as I said in my comments about last week's episode,Logan is self-centered and selfish and although he has grown a lot through his relationship with Rory and I eventually came to believe he loved her, when it comes down to it he's always going to choose what's best for him and react that way, too. So his cold reaction to Rory's rejection, essentially saying "You don't want me? I'm outta here" seemed perfectly in character to me. Would have been nicer if he'd genuinely wanted what was best for her and maybe later he would have thought of that but I believe that his reaction fit the character.

Mind you, I don't think that it's necessarily evil of him not to want to try to continue the relationship long distance. If it's not going towards something permanent in the foreseeable future, I think he has a right to be free to look for a new relationship in his new home rather than continuing this one in the hopes that Rory might someday want to settle down with him.

BTW, a small point: I had to giggle when Parris promised Doyle that once she had a prestigious residency she would start taking it easy -- anyone who knows anything about med students knows that residency is incredibly grueling and intense.

Finally, I agree with everyone that showing that much in the promo really sucked. If the ending of the finale is the same as the ending of the promo, they owe us all a big apology.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: JG on May 10, 2007, 10:43:41 pm
And - I LOVE it when they do German words in English: Emiliy: "I am schwitzing".... this is soooo funny!!!!! We do this a lot, my son plus my friend and me, we call this lanquage "denglish" (deutsch (german) and english).

Ummmm, "shvitzing" is a Yiddish expression. It might be German, too, but I believe in this context it's supposed to be Yiddish. Emily prefaced her remark by saying something like "As my dear friend <Jewish-sounding name> would say..."


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Morada on May 11, 2007, 03:13:45 am
Quote from: Dani257
What did Lorelai say to Logan?  I know they didn't show the scene (yet another important scene for a MAIN MAIN MAIN character that they'd rather have off screen, although we've had the privilege of seeing a recurring character like Zach freak out about being a dad on screen) but did Lorelai allude to the specifics of the conversation?  I'm just wondering if she told Sookie that she didn't give him any advice or if that's just the assumption.

Nope.  She told Sookie what happened, but if Lorelai had said anything back to Logan she would have told Sookie.  Or so that's been their relationship in the past, to relate the event down to the nitty gritty.

Quote from: laurla205
I also understand that neither of them really knows what they want from each other but itís pretty clear that at the least they want a friendship and this type of resolution is also required to mend a friendship, so it works no matter where theyíre headed.  Oh but wait, that wouldnít be packed with drama to screw any growth anyone has shown and letís just box.

What I'd really like to know is what idiot went to Hollywood and decided to make THAT the standard for all TV shows?  That people can't be a symbol for a stable life.  I'm still trying to figure out why they killed off Gerald McRaney on Jericho!  Would it have been SOOOO horrible to have ONE stable person in that town?

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although I really like the whispering in his ear about her setting the date and then a yes, kudos to whoever it was that suggested that)

That was me.  I'm always hoping they show that Rory has grown into a smart, confident, all out woman.  ::)

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And I can concede the tiniest bit and say that Rory tried to throw out the LD suggestion in a softer manner than Iíd originally remembered.  But she didn't try nearly hard enough to keep the man she ďloves so muchĒ.

I just watched the episode over again.  By the time they got to that scene, Rory really didn't seem like she even cared about him, which really makes me respect the two actors for flipping emotions so easily over one issue.  They had such a wonderful vibe as a couple.  The two of them each tore that entire structure down and left us with nothing.  Kudos to Alexis and Matt.

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If the girl canít handle more than one serious event at a time sheís going to have problems down the line because life doesnít come at you one thing at a time.  It just doesnít work like that, everything comes at you at once sometimes and you learn to balance it and deal with it, you donít cut portions out because they become too much to handle, thatís part of the fun of life.

My point exactly.  Rory has always been the weakest link, even in the way she holds her posture.  She acts like one of those women who have to be taken care of (i.e. ALWAYS have a boyfriend or someone running to her aid when things don't go right) and doesn't have the strength to make strong decisions.  The sad thing is that all the people in her life enable her to do so.  Her grandmother never quite gave her the strength and backbone she had herself.  Although Emily took the "housewife" role, she always played an important part in what she did.  You are as powerful as you allow yourself to be.  Each one of us has an amazing strength inherent in us.  Some are afraid of that strength and choose the lesser path.  The bottom line is your life will only be as happy as you allow it to be.  You CAN have it all.  You just have to believe you deserve it.

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Hmm, talk about marriage before a proposal is fantasizing.

I'm really surprised to hear so many people say they would never discuss such a thing in the process of a relationship.  Maybe I watch too many TV programs or movies.  When I see someone doing something boneheaded or bad writing on the writers parts I'll comment on it after the program.  (I do the same thing when I'm watching a football game, but its usually after the fumbled ball *smirk.*)  During such a conversation (if you've chosen a guy because you like to hear his opinions on things) you talk about people's attitudes towards marriage.  It doesn't have to be a conversation about the two of you getting married, but a conversation on anyone's choices in regards to marriage.  People getting married and divorced are all around us - in every day life, on TV...how could it not drift into conversation?  How can you be in any type of relationship, whether new or old or just friends or lovers, without discussing the world that's happening around you?  Sure, there are some guys out there who are very quiet, but even those I've managed to spark conversation about other people's choices in life.  And I'm not even a Gemini.

Quote from: lessa

I Like Rory and Logan together, I really do. And I think the character is perfect the way she is, even if it means she's unwilling to give up her big dreams for her big love. It seems immature that her feelings aren't in the right place, but I think Lorelai had a point, too. Isn't one of the core tenets of the show that being with the "right" right guy means you don't have to let go of everything else to make it work?

I think the problem is thinking that doing such a thing is letting go of everything.  Why does being with someone you love get viewed as being stuck in a box.  If you only had a certain amount of money and you had to move to an area where you could afford the rent, does that automatically take away all of your options?  If you let it, yes, it does. If you realize you can be anything you want to be then no, it doesn't.  It's how you look at life that makes the difference.  Good love shouldn't be an either/or situation.  Yes, Logan made it that way in the end, but there were so many hard feelings leading up to that last scene I don't blame him.  Rory made it clear she didn't love him enough to say yes to the proposal when it was made.  Would you REALLY want to marry someone that wasn't excited about the prospect of marrying you?  Yes, Logan acted a bit immature at the end, but he realized who Rory was.  A person who didn't love him as much as he thought she did.

Quote from: Arlinda
I keep watching because I love the characters not the writing.

Amen.  I loved who they were, I loved who I was hoping they would become.  I couldn't STOP watching it, even when the writing in Season 7 headed straight down the tubes.

Quote from: lessa
By the same token, Rory would have to change to be right for the new-and-improved Logan.

Again, why oh why do people think you have to become someone else to be in a marriage?  Isn't the person you are now the person your lover fell in love with?  Logan isn't expecting her to become the same spouse component Emily is.  In fact, he lists a couple of esteemed places Rory could work.  He's already factored in her following her dream of working for a newspaper into the equation. 

You should never "change" to be with someone else.  If the you and your partner can't find your "sync" in the relationship after being together as long as Rory and Logan then it's probably not a good relationship to begin with. 

Quote from: zeddie
Sex and the City dealt with a lot of these same issues, but did it with more class than a lot of these so-called "family shows" if you ask me, ok, there were some fun words thrown in, but i mean, they stayed away from the hackneyd (sp?) cliches of "Oh he has a kid" except Miranda did get pregnant- but that is different than a skeleton) and they managed to deal with serious things, without me saying, "Oh COME ON!" even one time. And people got married, and people had soulmates in the end... So if Sex and the City can do it, how come GG managed to mangle itself?

Well, mainly because they actually had people who could write (unlike the people who took over Gilmore Girls) and those people weren't malicious (like Amy and Dan - "Oooo, can't have them falling in love yet...let's have Lorelai melt down because Luke won't marry her and go sleep with Christoper!). 

I *LOVED* Sex and The City.  It was smart, it let it's characters grow up and explore self-improvement both physically and emotionally and it let it's characters explore many different aspects of themselves (like I had hoped Gilmore Girls would do).  They tried things on and decided whether they were good or bad things.  And in the end, it let all of it's characters reach the pinnacle of something fabulous in their lives.  Each woman did so in accordance to the wonderful, independent women they were.  My favorite quote of all times is the very last words of that series:

"Later that day, I got to thinking about relationships.  There are those that open you up to something new and exotic, those that are old and familiar, those that bring up lots of questions, those that bring you somewhere unexpected, those that bring you far from where you started, and those that bring you back.

But the most exciting, challenging, and significant relationship of all is the one you have with yourself, and if you find someone to love the you *you* love, well, that's just fabulous."


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I am curious, who found their soulmate /a soulmate-ish person and is currently with that person

There are a lot of people who say they are with their soul mates, but I don't believe they really understand what a soul mate is.  You can be in the deepest of love and believe you are with a soul mate.  The truth is, if you make a decision not to be with that person than you really haven't found your TRUE soul mate.  There's a spiritual way to love someone and sometimes people get that deepest of loves mixed up with the person with whom every minute is nirvana.  I often think of Garth Brook's song unanswered prayers when I hear people say they let their soul mate go and they regret it. 

I've loved completely and I've been loved completely.  I knew, however, that I would never be able to be myself in that relationship.  I gave up the most incredible, intense love (emotional, spiritual and physical) and I have never regretted it.  I keep that in my pocket and remember it when I have someone trying to tell me to date someone who may be "the perfect guy for me."  The perfect guy for me isn't someone I can quantify.  The perfect guy for me is someone who knows who he is and isn't afraid to let me be the person I am.  He's the guy who champions my empowerment in any situation as much as I champion his.  A soul mate isn't someone you need to complete your life.  A soul mate is someone who compliments your life the same way the perfect pair of high heels compliments a dress.  The same way you compliment the person he is.  When people see you together, they can't imagine you apart. 

If people understood the only person who can "complete you" is yourself, there wouldn't be so much disappointment in relationships.

Quote from: willowsprite
The aforementioned Sex in the City did, but they planned the last season, knew it was the end.  GG didn't so we're stuck.  I am hoping for a movie update sooner rather than later.

Amy said from the beginning she knew what the last scene was going to be in the last episode.  However it ends, they already had a plan for it.

Quote from: JG
Sorry to disappoint you,  but I'm 52, not a young whippersnapper, and I couldn't disagree with you more. In what universe is marrying a rich guy, moving to a house he's providing for you, and maybe finding a job in the place where he's moving for his job any kind of independent, thrilling, adventurous move? I couldn't think of anything more bourgeoisie if I tried!

I'm only a few years behind you.  Having a little stability when you're about to embark on the greatest changes in your life is only a prison if you allow it to be.  You can do a lot more with the essentials available to you than you can without them.  Bourgeoisie is moving into a house being provided for you and sitting on your rear-end eating truffles all day.  Rory's base of operations has time and again been in Paris Geller's crappy apartment (even though she's lived in Logan's apartment too).  Most people like to upgrade their living conditions upon the culmination of a stage of life.  It's not a sin to live in a nice house with a man who loves you. 

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A couple of people have mentioned this but I thought Logan pretty much forced her to -- there were a few shots during the graduation segment before that where he kept waving at her, reminding her he was there. I don't see how they could have had a conversation *without* her dealing with the issue, and I don't see how she could have kept ignoring that he was there, either.

Which supports my assertion about Rory's weakness.  You are the master of your life.  People don't control you, you give control to them. 

People who are in the military often lament their boot camp instructors as being the meanest, most sadistic people in the world.  The truth is boot camp is about you understanding where your own limits are.  If you don't know where your limits are, you do stupid things in the field and get killed.  People who are the most successful in boot camp are the ones who know who they are and allow their instructors to become nothing more than a little background noise.  The ones who fail are the ones who give all their power away to the people trying to take it.  Again, it's up to us to decide.  It's how we view what is happening around us.  Either you allow other people to make you believe you're not worthy of the best or you understand you can be anyone you want to be. 

Any woman worth her salt knows how to stall a man...or a conversation he wants to have...until she's ready to have it.  She could have suggested they go to a restaurant and have a great dinner, taken a wonderful last walk around the city she's been living in the last four years of her life, she could have told him flat out she wanted this last day to be a wonderful day she'd remember forever and they could talk about it later.  That's why they say women have all the power.  We really do!

Rory just gave the impression that it was something she had to "get over with" which indicates to me she didn't really love Logan as much as she thought she did to begin with.

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I would think that proposing in front of a bunch of people with no warning and not in a quiet, controlled atmosphere would also be considered trashy, then.

Have we not been watching the same show?  Everything in Logan's and Emily's world is about propriety.  Rory went to a cotillian for heaven's sakes!  As Rory's boyfriend, he should have factored in that she wasn't for all the fanfare (he did mention he considered that when they went outside - about how he finally decided it was appropriate because both her parents and grandparents were going to be there), but he did what was socially acceptable for a man of his stature and upbringing.  His father and Emily and Richard would have been proud and ecstatic they were able to be there to witness it...if Rory had said yes.

Quote from: LoraleiAndLuke4EVA
I'M GONNA CRY MY EYES OUT ON THE LAST EPISODE.

You and me both!  I'm not only going to miss the one male character that I loved the most out of all the male characters in every show I've ever loved (Luke - the way that man holds a woman makes me weak at the knees), but I'm going to be sad that the girls never got a chance to explore everything they could be.  They kept going around in circles, returning to the same place they started instead of gaining some wisdom (Lorelai's neediness, Rory's inability to commit).  I'm going to miss all the town's people that I've come to know over the years, but most of all I'm going to miss the troubador!



Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Devilina07 on May 11, 2007, 07:08:03 am
As I've said before, I am a Veronica Mars fan ... but let's be honest, we know what show has my true allegiance.  ;)

If there is to be any hope for season 8 (however small) ... Gilmore Girls needs to have had MONSTROUS ratings tonight.  HUGE.  Massive.  Colossal.  In addition, Veronica Mars, which airs right after our Girls, needs to have further dipped in the ratings department.

Start praying, rubbing your lucky rabbit's foot, tossing that penny into a fountain, whatever works for you.  Send out good vibes into the universe.   :clover:

~Heidi

If anyone hears when they'll re-air the episode, please let me know.

~Heidi
Regarding the ratings, Nielson only checks to see if you kept the tv on the channel for a second.  So if anyone was asked whether they tuned in to 'Gilmore Girls' even if for a few minutes, then the show gets the ratings.  I doubt the show will be hurt by what some people what consider some questionable writing because of the fact that people like to tune in to long-standing shows that are coming to an end, if only to be part of the experience.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: AbFab on May 11, 2007, 07:45:59 am
TOUCY TOPIC HERE...

I am curious, who found their soulmate /a soulmate-ish person and is currently with that person
Who is stil looking
Who messed something up (that would be me)


I don't believe in just one soulmate....but the first person I was ever "with" and I had a very strong soul mate type connection. I couldn't figure out if it was just because he was my first love or my "soulmate" but I had a friend that I worked with who read aura's and I asked her if he and I were going to get married. Her responce was that sometimes people do no marry their soulmates and that she had not married hers.  Now I'm married to someone who I have a different type connection with but a more realistic and less puppy love-ish....I do consider him my soul mate but on a different level. That's why I don't believe there's just ONE soul mate for everyone.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 12, 2007, 12:16:34 am
Well, even the mating of souls has to be put into perspective for a practical matter such as marriage. Supposing your soulmate is dealing with problems that are too much for you to support? Or supposing your soulmate has a demanding career, or a mountain of debt or a tendency to sexually harass your mother? A real soulmate doesn't "get away" because you think marriage is a little premature.

In Rory's case, she fantasizes about different jobs and locations more than she fantasizes about being married to her admittedly princely steady. She wants to be with him, but she doesn't want to live on the West Coast in his rental and choose between working at the Chronicle or the bookstore. (Yet, anyway.) It isn't a crime just because Logan can't stand the idea of being engaged to a girl he isn't living with.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: JG on May 12, 2007, 01:45:43 am
Quote from: JG
Sorry to disappoint you,  but I'm 52, not a young whippersnapper, and I couldn't disagree with you more. In what universe is marrying a rich guy, moving to a house he's providing for you, and maybe finding a job in the place where he's moving for his job any kind of independent, thrilling, adventurous move? I couldn't think of anything more bourgeoisie if I tried!

I'm only a few years behind you.  Having a little stability when you're about to embark on the greatest changes in your life is only a prison if you allow it to be.  You can do a lot more with the essentials available to you than you can without them.  Bourgeoisie is moving into a house being provided for you and sitting on your rear-end eating truffles all day.  Rory's base of operations has time and again been in Paris Geller's crappy apartment (even though she's lived in Logan's apartment too).  Most people like to upgrade their living conditions upon the culmination of a stage of life.  It's not a sin to live in a nice house with a man who loves you.

I never said it was a sin, or even a bad thing. I was disagreeing with someone else's comment that it would have been an "independent, thrilling, adventurous move."

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A couple of people have mentioned this but I thought Logan pretty much forced her to -- there were a few shots during the graduation segment before that where he kept waving at her, reminding her he was there. I don't see how they could have had a conversation *without* her dealing with the issue, and I don't see how she could have kept ignoring that he was there, either.

Any woman worth her salt knows how to stall a man...or a conversation he wants to have...until she's ready to have it.  She could have suggested they go to a restaurant and have a great dinner, taken a wonderful last walk around the city she's been living in the last four years of her life, she could have told him flat out she wanted this last day to be a wonderful day she'd remember forever and they could talk about it later.  That's why they say women have all the power.  We really do!

This sounds like game-playing to me. If she'd already made up her mind, I think it would be cruel, not to mention emotionally difficult, to have a light, airy conversation about trivialities with him and refuse to give him an answer to such an important question that affects both their lives.

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I would think that proposing in front of a bunch of people with no warning and not in a quiet, controlled atmosphere would also be considered trashy, then.

Have we not been watching the same show?  Everything in Logan's and Emily's world is about propriety.  Rory went to a cotillian for heaven's sakes!  As Rory's boyfriend, he should have factored in that she wasn't for all the fanfare (he did mention he considered that when they went outside - about how he finally decided it was appropriate because both her parents and grandparents were going to be there), but he did what was socially acceptable for a man of his stature and upbringing.  His father and Emily and Richard would have been proud and ecstatic they were able to be there to witness it...if Rory had said yes.

Again, you have taken my remark out of context. I was responding to your specific comment that it was trashy of Rory to talk about Logan's proposal in a public place rather than a "quiet, controlled atmosphere." If it was inappropriate for her to talk about the proposal in a public place, then it was inappropriate of him to ask her in a public place. Even more so in her case, because she at least did so in a private conversation between the two of them, unlike Logan's very public proposal. Can't have it both ways.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 12, 2007, 11:09:28 am
Just sticking my nose into the R&L debate with a point on Luke and Lorelai. She's finally admitted her long-standing resentment of his uncertainty to him, so the ball is squarely in his court. And even if it wasn't true, Lorelai's assertion that the song meant nothing was an important one.

Like she told the whole town she still loves him, but that doesn't mean she wants to hop back into bed with him again. She said she didn't know how she wanted him to respond, and it would have been unfair to Luke to let him go in there and try something if she still didn't even know she would say yes.
I know it's not a her-fault his-fault thing, but she apologized for sleeping with Christopher and admitted it wasn't who she really was, and he's apologized for leaving her hanging while asserting that he was being himself. Maybe she really isn't ready to just accept that about him and take a leap.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: friend on May 12, 2007, 02:08:37 pm
I hate that the show is ending... I watch it 2x a day (ABC Family), 3 on Tuesday but Unto the Breach was so lame it was heart breaking.  Did the person that wrote the episode actually watch any GG from the past?  Richard calling Loralie "Sweetheart"?  Rory breaking up with Logan and not one tear?   Well maybe... but it ended as if they had just been dating for a week.  Are we to believe that Logan just walks off into the sun set?   Someone hijacked this show and turned it into their own play ground for their own purpose... LG.  Just beacsue you can't see the show ending in a marriage, that does not mean the fans agree!   


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: LGLDandRGLH4evr on May 12, 2007, 02:42:04 pm
I cried for an hour after that episode. I am now severly pissed at Rory. I agree with a few of you, after three years she justs ends it? WHAT THE HELL? But Logan was a tad pushy. But I'm still on his side. He really loves her. I mean, he was scared to commit and just have her as a girlfriend. He fricken PROPOSED to her. That says that he really, really loves her. I'm so mad at Rory right now I can't even explain it. I just... ugh. Don't misunderstand: I'm not mad at Alexis or Lauren. I'm mad at the writers and Rory and Lorelai. And then Lorelai's all "You'll find someone and you can have peanut trees" What the hell is that? It's a load of bull. I'm seriously writing hate mail to the writers. And I'm going to be depressed for weeks. I changed my happy R/L background to black. And my screensavers, too. My parents and friends think I'm overreacting. But I really don't care.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: LGLDandRGLH4evr on May 12, 2007, 02:47:35 pm
I haven't read the spoilers, but there is one more episode left, who knows what will happen? Maybe Logan will realize how self-centered his ultimatum was, and reconsider. Maybe he will ask her to marry him again and say: " Marry me Rory, I will follow YOU wherever you want to go". Then Rory will say " I want to go to Palo Alto with you. ". And they'll live happily ever after. Hey, one can dream.

Sorry to double post, but I just saw this. And I wanted to say that fleet, you are a genius!!! Pray, pray, and pray!!!!!!! I love your idea!!!! I doubt it will happen :( but I love it! :)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Gilmore_Lover on May 12, 2007, 03:45:02 pm
THAT MAJORLY SUCKED MONKEY BUTTT FOR ALL SO-CAL VIEWERS.  >:(
There was  a huge fire in Griffith Park [a huge park in southern california] and we got the first seven minutes of the episode and then it was intereuptted for breaking news.
GGRRRRR.
I basically checked youtube hourly and i finally was able to see it this morning.
sdjfalskdfjsadlkfjsdlkfsjdfasddfjasfk.

--Rory, what the hell?
--I guess thats the last we're seeing of Logan...
--OMG Emily would you just SHUT UP? So annoying  during the ceremony.
--The Luke/Lorelai fight was good. I think it was great for them.

A series this fantastic deserves a spectacular ending.
<33


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Devilina07 on May 12, 2007, 04:23:11 pm
He quickly makes her coffee order "to go" and doesn't rise to her muffin vs. donut (was it donut?) musing, brushing it off with a cold but foreshadowy "Whatever you want." She's so hurt, she leaves her muffin and bagel on the counter as she dashes out.
I was hoping she would realize that she forgot the muffin/donut, go back inside and clarify what had just happened.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Tanna on May 12, 2007, 05:08:55 pm
ok-took me awhile but I have read all the posts about Unto the Breach.† I have to say that I have not seen this episode yet.† We had a tornado hit about 2 miles away from our place last weekend.† We luckily had no damage but electrical poles don't mix well with 120mph winds.† We lost power about 3am on Sunday and it didn't come back on until 11:50 on Tuesday night.† Yes-I only a had blank TV to look at my normal GG time.†

With that confession out of the way I must say there is something about reading all of these posts and not seeing the episode.† I know that will be looking at certain scenes more carefully then I think I normally would(when I finally get the chance to see it).† I was not a Logan fan in the begining and only recently have I begun to see him in a new light.† I don't think a public proposal is a smart idea especially if you had not seriously discussed marriage.† †I know that my hubby and I discussed marriage and what it meant to each of us lots of time before we actually picked out a ring.† I can't recall Rory or Logan discussing marriage to each other but my mind does fail me now and again.† I don't like how the writers handled the breakuip from what I've read here.† Could be interesting to see if actually seeing the show will change that.† I can't see Logan handling things the way they were laid out in the posts.† He had just talked about who should factor who in their futures.† To go from this to all or nothing doesn't feel right.† This to me is a huge turn around and an example of bad writing and poor understanding of show history and recent history at that!†

I loved reading all the strong opinions in this episode discussion.† Can't say I agree with all of you but very eye opening to see things through a differing point of views.† I think that reading the posts at this forum helped change my view of Logan in the long run.† I had something else I wanted to say but heck if I can remember now.† So, instead of blathering on I'll stop.†

Tanna

Hey-this was my 100th post.  (doing a little happy dance)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmanGirl on May 12, 2007, 06:49:08 pm
THAT MAJORLY SUCKED MONKEY BUTTT FOR ALL SO-CAL VIEWERS.† >:(
There was† a huge fire in Griffith Park [a huge park in southern california] and we got the first seven minutes of the episode and then it was intereuptted for breaking news.
GGRRRRR.
I basically checked youtube hourly and i finally was able to see it this morning.
sdjfalskdfjsadlkfjsdlkfsjdfasddfjasfk.

--Rory, what the hell?
--I guess thats the last we're seeing of Logan...
--OMG Emily would you just SHUT UP? So annoying† during the ceremony.
--The Luke/Lorelai fight was good. I think it was great for them.

A series this fantastic deserves a spectacular ending.
<33
Glad to hear you saw it on YouTube.† I finally get to see it tonight (Sat. May 12), when KTLA will rebroadcast the May 8 episode at 8:00 p.m.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: gilmore_luver09 on May 12, 2007, 06:53:17 pm
omg i cant beieve she said i kno i was sure she wud sayy yes!!  :'( im soo sad that its end soo soon after only 7 seasons.. :(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreAddict7899 on May 13, 2007, 06:44:31 am
i totally agree with you...i feel the same way. I cried forever


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: willowsprite on May 13, 2007, 10:50:33 am

Quote from: willowsprite
The aforementioned Sex in the City did, but they planned the last season, knew it was the end.† GG didn't so we're stuck.† I am hoping for a movie update sooner rather than later.

Amy said from the beginning she knew what the last scene was going to be in the last episode.† However it ends, they already had a plan for it.

That's true, but as this episode was planned as a season finale, not a series finale, we aren't going to have that last scene as Amy planned it.† Lauren Graham said in an interview that she thought Amy probably would have given her the last words/scene if they had known ahead of time the show was ending, but they didn't.† So we won't have the ending the creator envisioned.† Which is almost criminal in my view--this wonderful world was created, and not finished.† Its like a great book without the final chapters.


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I would think that proposing in front of a bunch of people with no warning and not in a quiet, controlled atmosphere would also be considered trashy, then.

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Have we not been watching the same show?† Everything in Logan's and Emily's world is about propriety.† Rory went to a cotillian for heaven's sakes!† As Rory's boyfriend, he should have factored in that she wasn't for all the fanfare (he did mention he considered that when they went outside - about how he finally decided it was appropriate because both her parents and grandparents were going to be there), but he did what was socially acceptable for a man of his stature and upbringing.† His father and Emily and Richard would have been proud and ecstatic they were able to be there to witness it...if Rory had said yes..

Yes, I agree, that if Rory had accepted, had had no hesitation, it would have been a great moment, and the perfect way to propose.†

Quote from: LoraleiAndLuke4EVA
I'M GONNA CRY MY EYES OUT ON THE LAST EPISODE.

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You and me both!† I'm not only going to miss the one male character that I loved the most out of all the male characters in every show I've ever loved (Luke - the way that man holds a woman makes me weak at the knees), but I'm going to be sad that the girls never got a chance to explore everything they could be.† They kept going around in circles, returning to the same place they started instead of gaining some wisdom (Lorelai's neediness, Rory's inability to commit).† I'm going to miss all the town's people that I've come to know over the years, but most of all I'm going to miss the troubador!

Agreed!!! Tueday evening will be a sad night for me.† And thanks for your whole post Morada, had many good points and insights througout.†
Quote


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmOre_fan4life on May 13, 2007, 03:48:10 pm
I can't believe Rory said no, she said that she loved him and stuff so what made her say no. I don't think Logan should have given Rory and ultimatum, like come on man.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: neverapuff on May 13, 2007, 05:18:27 pm
The more I think about this R/L proposal thing, the more I think that Rory just didn't love Logan as deeply as we were supposed to think she did (and no, not because she didn't say 'yes', but just because I've been thinking about Rory a lot). And truly, I have seen her apathy grow towards him throughout the season. I do believe she cared for him, but when it comes right down to it, he just was not one of her priorities. I think she will have Lorelai's committment problems in the long run... But even her friendships are kept at arms-length--she never seemed to reciprocate Paris' affection, and she deliberately distanced herself from Lane.† It's like she's so co-dependent on her mother or something that she never bothers to let anyone else in; or she's too self-centered...I don't know. Or she's just the kind of person that doesn't really value romantic love; she's just so confident, it's insignificant; or she's so focused on her career that love seems frivilous and inconvenient right now- a nice bonus, but it's easily eliminated as soon as it becomes a hinderance... I dont get it still I guess ???


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: trickyiu on May 13, 2007, 05:33:30 pm
Even her friendships are kept as arms-length-she never seemed to reciprocate Paris' affection, and she deliberately distanced herself from Lane.

I don't believe she deliberately distanced herself from Lane, I just think they have grown apart.  Their lives are very different and its sometimes hard to keep your friendships strong after high school especially b/c Rory went away to College.  I do agree with your thought about her relationship with Paris.  I feel like Paris really appreciated all the things Rory did for her and values their friendship.  Rory to me just doesn't seem to care as much about her friends as she does Lorelai.  That is the one thing that bugged me about Rory over the years, she never really developed any close friends throughout college besides Paris and you can almost not count her because she has known her since Chilton.  I met so many wonderful friends in college it just seems weird to me that she never seemed to be close with that many people....I don't get it either. 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 13, 2007, 05:41:07 pm
Huh.  I didn't see any apathy growing.  I saw her a little high and mighty over things being done on her terms in Gilmore Girls Only (that's a rant for another thread, and probably pointless at this stage now.  Not that I might not get into it anyway) but no apathy.  There was more anger or annoyance.  I saw her horrified that she could find another man attractive because she was scared she was looking for trouble.  I saw her crestfallen when misinterpreted Logan saying he didn't want her to factor him in as he didn't want to be a factor, period. 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: neverapuff on May 13, 2007, 07:13:32 pm
For some reason, I think the word apathy keeps coming to mind when I picture that scene when Logan calls her on cell and he's in CA (oh, I can't even remember what epi this is from- bear with me, I've seen them only once and with children not quite in bed yet) I think she's outside of Luke's (?) There's something about her face and voice that seems like she could care less what he is saying. For some reason that feels like her tone of the relationship to me, I'm in dire need of season 7 re-watching. But you don't think apathetic is at least an appropriate word for how she acted after she rejected the proposal? It really kills me, when although she admits that she misses him already, Lorelai gets giddy over the prospect of her own avacado tree, distracting Rory with the quickness of a 3 year old, and she practically squeals with glee, "Oooh, guacamolee!!"... Logan? Eh, whatever. Avacadoes? Yay!!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 13, 2007, 07:49:41 pm
Oh, I can see apathetic after the proposal (although the memory of exactly how she was isn't sharp because I refuse to watch it again) but I felt that everything about this episode was contrived to break them up and sweep Logan away.  Clean up duty, before the end of the series.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: fcajoymartin on May 13, 2007, 08:35:32 pm
Ok, I am a total newbie to this cite...and it has probably been discussed repeatedly...but is anyone else MAD that Rory said no to Logan and they are apparently not going to be together?  I personally loved the two of them together and I was so disappointed/mad after last weeks episode.  I cannot believe that GG is coming to an end.  I wanted them to have L/L get married, have babies, and let there be more Gilmore Girls.  Does anyone else feel this way?  I think they could have done so much more with the show...instead they did the same things over and over.....I will truly miss this show. 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: CathyCoffee on May 14, 2007, 05:54:39 am
I had my mom watch it last night, and she came into my room almost crying!
She's usually the stable positive one.
I hope tomorrow is better.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: rad7462 on May 14, 2007, 09:42:39 am
Cant wait!!

Help - I was unable to see episode 20 ( Lorelai,Loerlai) - does anyone no where I can find it on line oe on tape????????????????????????????????    SDM]


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: HBW on May 14, 2007, 10:06:28 am
Neverapuff, I completely agree with you about Rory's feeling for her friends.  I honestly think that some of it is Alexis' acting abiblity.  I"m not trying to be mean here but I've always noticed that when she hugs someone, she always avoids getting her face too close to the other persons and kind of holds her body stiff (except for Jess and Logan.  It doesnt' sound like much when you describe it, but it was definitely an awkward posture whenever she hugs, Emily or Richard or Luke or any of the Stars Hollow Characters (Sookie, Patty, Babette), school friends.

Anyway maybe it was only part real discomfort and part her character.  Maybe she is supposed to be a little aloof from everyone but Lorelai.  Maybe the single self-sufficient mother makes the kids feel less need for outside love, validation, interaction?  Or maybe I'm full of it.  Anyway I still really think that Rory did not give Paris the send off you'd give a stray dog!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 14, 2007, 11:31:56 am
I think the hugging thing is an Alexis thing, not a character thing.  It makes sense when someone hugs her when she's not expecting it or she doesn't see herself as that close to a person.  I recall a couple of Paris hugs where Rory seems to be thinking, "Who are you, and why are you touching me?"  (I do think that Paris sees her friendship with Rory as more important and close than Rory sees it)  But, the stiffness of Rory's hugs with her grandparents make no sense for the character.  One thing that I've picked up is that Richard and Emily are pretty free and easy with their hugs to Rory and they never hug Lorelai.  Even in their most tender moments with her.  And, she never hugs them.  And, the one time she attempted to, Emily balked.  I always took that to be a clever way to show the difference in the relationship Rory has with them and Lorelai has.  Rory is supposed to feel more comfortable around her grandparents than Lorelai, and I would think that would translate into her hugs being more natural, so we could take note of how much easier it is for her to show and receive affection from them.  So, all I can think is, the way Alexis hugs is not how Rory is supposed to be hugging her grandparents.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 14, 2007, 01:22:55 pm
Or maybe she's just too pretty to pull off hesitance. I like to think that she's extremely literal-minded and doesn't really expect emotional behavior the way Lorelai does. Her own feelings catch her off-guard often enough.

I guess that's why I'm so conflicted about Logan suddenly congealing into Married-with-avocado-tree guy. She loved him so much that she never knew what she was going to do or feel or jump off of or argue about with him next, and suddenly she'll never know (for now.) The guy who could do anything and go anywhere just to be with her is gone along with his white ponies and grand gestures, and Rory is stuck with "knowing she loved by the way she behaved."

I get the hug thing between Lorelai, Emily, and Rory as one of the ways Emily visibly favored Rory to make Lorelai jealous or punish her. Lorelai never openly resented it apart from my favorite and only reference featuring the Boob Obsessed Fairy ("Kill Me Now" 1.03) when she got angry at Rory for borrowing a sweater without asking because she couldn't relate to her own parents the way Rory did. We never got any proper closure on how Richard felt about being openly more affectionate to Rory than Lorelai, though. Live, Season 8, Live!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: neverapuff on May 14, 2007, 06:53:22 pm
Yes, Alexis does seem uncomfortable with hugging! Her Luke hugs are the worst- they're practically comical. Although, when Rory drops out of Yale and she breaks down in front of her grandfather, that hug is very sweet. But that is really the only moment I can think of- her hugs with Emily are also awkward.  And about how much she loved Logan, I guess that's my issue, I don't know if someone so aloof can love so deeply...I hope she did...???


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: wmushell on May 14, 2007, 08:11:29 pm
The more times I watch this episode, the more things I find valuable in it.  My very favorite scene would have to be Lorelai, with an indescribably emotional look on her face, cheering on Rory as she graduates.  Their original dream (except insert Yale for Harvard) has been accomplished.   I love that this is such an important redeeming moment for Lorelai.  When she was 16 and came home and shocked her parents with the news that she was pregnant it must have seemed that nothing positive could be between her and her parents again.  Especially after she ran away a year after Rory was born.

Richard giving her the compliment that she should be proud was, in my opinion, the bond I needed to see between them and I was finally satisfied.  He has been the "hard sell" on Lorelai's choices in her life.  Even more than Emily.  I think Emily was more hurt by Lorelai running away and got over the shame of having had a pregnant teenage a long time ago.  Richard I don't think ever got over that.

As I think of the series ending, I'm very much okay with Lorelai and Emily's current relationship -- have been for most of the end of this season.  Two major things have made me confident they will be okay ... Emily supporting her concerning the divorce in "I am Kayak, Hear me Roar" and Lorelai and Emily being able to joke around at the end of "Gilmore Girls Only" after attending Mia's wedding.

I'm sad Luke wasn't at Rory's graduation.  Oh well!

I thought that this was a nice closure (in regards to the series ending) for Christopher and Lorelai as well.  They clearly care about each other as human beings and are able to express that to each other so that makes their failed romantic relationship more bearable to them.  It is wonderful they were able to come together for Rory.

The L/L conversation was frustrating for me because I'm over them talking around their relationship.  I just want them to get it out already!!!

Ahhhh, Rory and Logan.  So much to say.  However, I think I'll skip most of it and just say their "goodbyes" to each other had no sort of closure for two people who have been so close.  Therefore, me imagining them meeting up in five years and getting back together seems even more feasible in my mind now.  I do like that I can make up my own endings sometimes! 


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: ChocolatGilmore on May 14, 2007, 09:20:19 pm
Neverapuff, I completely agree with you about Rory's feeling for her friends.† I honestly think that some of it is Alexis' acting ability.†

† I think you might be onto something there. :)
† For some reason, I noticed the hugs, too.† The most genuine-looking Rory hug was when she took a picture with Lane on Lane's wedding day.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 15, 2007, 07:37:25 am
I AM SO SORRY THIS IS SO LONG. Hey i invite only my diehard readers to go forth on this. Deuce. Lessa. Neverapuff... Those with the stomach to read MILES of my crazy words........ Everyone else, PLASE FEEL FREE TO TAKE A BIG PASS around this.

Here, i have built a ROAD.

894 BYPASS....   proceed to THE END NOW.

NOTE - I SAY ALL THIS FULLY BELIEVING THAT JG MAY BE A highly INTELLIGENT PERSON, WITH MANY DEGREES AND ACCOLATES AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS,  MAYBE A PHD, ETC. i in no way think i am "smarter" or "better", etc. I would never think that, it is a bad assumption after all. All i know is, i seem to be blessed with intuition and a way to read the collective consciousness with some degree of accuracy. So, i concentrate on what i have learned, not what someone else has learned - someone i don't know..... Thank you.


Any young girl (or young guy) out there who is applauding Rory - is too young to actualy understand.  I also know young people who got married and are FINE. Life is SO very difficult. Please, if you find a man /a woman to love - don't say, "Oh, but Rory had her career first" - OK?... [snip]

Going off with Logan WAS the thrilling, adventurous, crazy, BOLD spontaneous thing to do! DUH - For Rory to accept and just - GO - that would have been outside her comfort zone - BUT NO, the stupid writers will keep her locked in "unrequited - i need my career - let's look over the next horizon, as long as there are books there" BULLSNOT!

Sorry to disappoint you,  but I'm 52, not a young whippersnapper, and I couldn't disagree with you more. In what universe is marrying a rich guy, moving to a house he's providing for you, and maybe finding a job in the place where he's moving for his job any kind of independent, thrilling, adventurous move? I couldn't think of anything more bourgeoisie if I tried! Saying "I love you and I have pictured being married to you but I want to have some life adventures on my own before I close down all my options" seems a lot more adventurous to me. And I agree with Lorelei: if it was really an "until death do we part" love, then she wouldn't have hesitated when Logan asked her, she would have said Yes and known it was the right thing to do.

Quote
Sorry, little Rory lovers who feel Rory should remain this little girl frozen in time, but I HAVE LIVED ALL THOSE DECADES - i know. I know because i was there already....   I was the free spirit - who looked around one day and realized i had a career and money and lots of things - but no PERSON.  I followed every whim except to find a PERSON - until i was older - when all the good men are married or in their divorces and bitter - I WISH i would have found a man when i was young, but i matured slowly in that department, ok?  I was not even "active" until i was 23 years old. For Rory to develop that far and then - CUT IT OFF? No, that' wrong. Stupid.  Again i say BAD WRITING. Do not let a poorly written show cause you to return a lovely diamond some day when you are 22 and the man of your dreams is before you.

No offense to you or to anyone else who has shared their own stories of love, age of marriage (or not) and so on, but I don't believe there is any way to make a global rule out of one person's experience. The issue should be judged on the character and relationship of the people involved, not some rule that is determined by one person's experience, whether for good or bad. Every person is different and every relationship is different so to say "You should always marry the first guy you fall in love with" or "You should never marry that young" isn't really useful.

Quote

IN WHAT UNIVERSE? I WILL TELL YOU OH 52 YEAR OLD - in GILMORE UNIVERSE. duh. What do you think i am referring to???  This is my overly maudling, overly involved overly ventful response to GILMORE GIRLS, ok?

HEY ALSO- i am quite sure i was not even talking TO YOU, JG. .
Number Two. Why don't you actually understand what i am SAYING? I am talking about RORY AND LOGAN in context of THAT SHOW.  Ok, maybe i spoke a little bit globally - but if you actualy think i am that much of an IDIOT to believe this is the end all be all of statements - well, i cannot comment. This is ONE RESPONSE among all the things i know and believe and so on.  This is VENTING, and FRUSTRATION. This is about GILMORE GIRLS. Of course i do not believe MY ONE AND ONLY LIFE is the handbook for life - DUUUUUHHHHHH.. Who are you?

JG said...
No offense to you or to anyone else who has shared their own stories of love, age of marriage (or not) and so on, but

BTW - when you say "BUT" that indicates that everything you said before it is something you DO NOT BELIEVE, therefore, i know that you found our stories stupid and maudlin or just plain unimportant to you. And i also know that you are not particularly trying to "not offend" me. Just thought you might like to know how language works in this case.  :)

Hmm., if i did not quote right i will hve to go back and fix this.......

I WIL TRY AGAIN. Rory is the cautious one who could NOT say "i love you" to Dean. She was worried about it - she was sort of unable to "go for it" with a man.  SOOO, for RORY (not necessarily ANYONE ELSE - are you following finally?) GOING WITH LOGAN would have been HER LEAP OF FAITH.  Getting her job with a political internet thing or whatever is NOT outside her comfort zone. That is all on the ONE NARROW PATH.

In the words of Robert Frost
"Two paths diverged in a wood....

Rory - NOT YOU, not your kid, whatever.  RORY should have taken the LOGAN path.  As for my advice to young kids, i don't really actually think most people will allow a TV show to let them make such a decision (nor will ANYONE take my words to heart! face it, i am talking TO MYSELF at best, duh). ON the other hand, THERE ARE many posts here where people actualy do consider these characters to mirror their own lives.

JG SAID...
No offense to you or to anyone else who has shared their own stories of love, age of marriage (or not) and so on, but I don't believe there is any way to make a global rule out of one person's experience. The issue should be judged on the character and relationship of the people involved, not some rule that is determined by one person's experience, whether for good or bad. Every person is different and every relationship is different so to say "You should always marry the first guy you fall in love with" or "You should never marry that young" isn't really useful.


There i think you have GROSSLY misquoted me and misinterpretted me. Please don't do that, you make it necessary for me to waste my precious time! I never ever said, "You should always marry the first guy you fal in love with" =- ARE YOU HIGH?  i do believe my correct words were MAN OF YOUR DREAMS, which is VERY DIFFERENT - VERY DIFFERENT from "always marry the first guy you fall in love with" - have you not beenin love with "the one"? because i have - and i am 55, and it did NOT come around again. I pulled a RORY. It happens. I know many people who could tell me the same story-

CONVERSELY. I know a couple who met at a wedding - went home together, did it, and got engaged, all in the space of like TWO HOURS. They have one child, and live about ten miles from me. I stood up in the wedding and they have been happily married for TWENTY YEARS plus. So, it DOES HAPPEN like that - and wouldn't SHE have been silly to "be cautious" and 'MISTRUST herself, based on some stupid "women's liberation" crap - passing on this man?  YOu think i am only talking about MYSELF - but i am not of course, i would not do that, i am highly intelligent and i usually prefer to speak from RESEARCH, not just off the top of my head, I have a MASTER'S DEGREE like everyone else, i have learned to do research and find things to back up my statements.

LISTEN, JG - you don't know this but MANY people have been secretly emailing me telling me how they followed their hearts and are HAPPY for it!  Just because it is not "politically correct" to say that maybe it is ok to follow a man, that DOES NOT mean, i am all wrong. I happen to still BELIEVE my statements, IN FACT i am working on a book outline about this topic. Maybe this idea's TIME HAS COME - it worked for OUR GENERATION, didn't it?  There are so many ways to find SELF ACTUALIZATION - you do not have to "give up the rich guy" OH, and WHY do you mention RICH? HUH? I don't care about Logan's wealth like you do, or his house hunting. That is all - IRRELEVANT. This is a SPIRITUAL thing to me.  Yeah, i think you are pressing me on to WRITE THAT BOOK to refute statements such as yours JG.

Ok, well, you challenged me, so i can go as many rounds as necessary. And if i have gone too far, that's ok, the show is ENDING and if i would get kicked off - oh well, Oh. well. I have made my special wonderful friends from this site. So let the ax fall.  IN OMNIA PARATUS!

OOOOOOOOOOOO - I AM IN FINE FORM TODAY  HEHEHEHEHHEEEEEEEEEEEE HAZAAAAH! (sp?)

IF - IF a person is so unimaginative that he or she cannot figure how to combine LOVE and CAREER FULFILMENT - well, then i don't suppose i can talk to that person anyway.....  Hey, i stand up for myself, and if that makes me aggressive, SO WHAT. You gotta problem with that?  >:(  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
 
ON 'WOMEN'S LIBERATION"

IMHO - that means  IN MY HUMBLE OPINION. I have tried to put IMO OR IMHO on these, and so i am actualy kind of irritated at how JG went after me, but i say again, IMHO AND - and also, from MY RESEARCH and reading and FOLLOWING THIS and watching EVERY STORY i could on this subject, I have the following things to say....

Women's Liberation (begun in 60's and 70's)  had a weird backlash - it caused many women to just across the board reject marriage and /or kids, and go full force into the career life. They somehow believed it was one or the other, and maybe looked down upon sole role of "wife".  Some of these women married later in life and had kids or tried and could not have kids due to old eggs. Still others had kids early but probably secretly cursed the entire situtation.  THEN - something regulated.   The NEW "women's lib" movement was about BEING A WOMAN and ALSO HAVING EQUAL PAY. Oprah did a big show on this.  It was about OLDER WOMEN - AH, LIKE ME- giving SAGE ADVICE to the younger women. AND younger women speaking back and saying, "This is what we reject about YOUR movement" But actually the older women ALREADY KNEW what was wrong with it, as they had the benefit now of 20/20 hindsite! So there was much unity! It was a great show.

the younger women were saying "We don't wanna work so hard, AND we would like a family life ALSO"- so , actually, there is an air of Universality to what we are debating  here.   

When i get on my soap box and say, "Little girls, gather round" - i feel i have a right (an obligation to be honest too) to do that. It is just MY OPINION.  And i am not even talking bout ONE EXPERIENCE, rather all the experiences i have had and those of all the people i have known, and all the research,etc. as i have said.  People don't live in VACUUMS. A person who has lived almost 6 decades has more experiences upon which to draw.  I feel i have to keep explaining this....  Because people think i am some blowhard, and young ones probably are ignoring me anyway, but - MANY PEOPLE are secretly PMing me, egging me ON for MORE STUFF that i should say.  So, i WRITE MORE - because i am being ASKED to write more.

I know what i know.  I KNOW - i KNOW, i don't "guess" that my girlfriends spend some time lamenting that their careers have left them flat. AND MORE TIME probably lamenting that they had no romance in their lives.  I do not know EVEN ONE single woman who has no significant other who is calling me up and saying, "Wow, i am  SO GLAD i just stayed on this career path and left my soulmate in the dust - i just bought a new car! I mean, how bout that! Screw love, cars RULE." No, i don't know even one woman talking that way. 

I am also not a fan of "hooking up" or "friends with benefits" and that is MY OPINION and being challenged has given me MORE FUEL to speak my mind - YOU HAVE FED ME to say even MORE HAHAHAHAHA!

Well, nobody KNOWS me on this forum, all they know is what i say.  But i know me. I know just how many people seek me out for counsel and advice and help. I know who i am - and i know that life without love is no life at all. That is what I KNOW. And that has nothing to do with 'marrying young" - that is IRRELEVANT. what is relevant is DON'T SHUT THE DOOR ON LOVE based on some VAGUE "WOMEN'S LIB CRAP" in your head.

CHECK IT OUT - "If a man follows a woman he knows is "the one" he is celebrated as liberal and evolved, blah blah - BUT - let a woman do the same and there is suspicion of her being week or SELLING OUT = i ask you WHY - WHY- WHY - is not the LOVE the same? Are not both genders serving the SAME DEEP LOVE? Then WHY does it matter who goes to California? Oh, what would have happened if it was LOGAN who said no? HUH? Think about is, all of you who want to throw stones at me.

Search your hearts and ask yourselves, "What if Rory had the job and Logan was not prepared and then they broke up?" Would we have said, "Stupid Logan, he should have swallowed his male pride and gone for it!"  Ok, be honest now. It is my assumption, since i have to make one for sake of argument - my ASSUMPTION that if Logan has said, "No, i am sorry, things are not settled with me" we would have thrown things at HIM - not Rory, believing Rory to be the RIGHTEOUS ONE. But, since Rory was the unsettled one, WE (some of us) APPLAUD HER BREAKING UP THE "GREAT LOVE" of two soulmates - WHY - why do we do this? (Not me, i think she was wrong)

I wanted EQUALITY - that means, whoever found the great job FIRST gets to say "Let's move here now and get married"  OH, i am also NOT a fan of shacking up indefinitely.  For me, that is like going to church and not praying.  It just is. Think about it. I very much loved that Logan had an integrity about him to the end. Maybe - maybe Rory does not deserve Logan.

I have made it a priority in my life to SEEK GOD - if i do nothing else of note, i will talk to God. So, i have that to be thankful for. I can never say "i am a loser" or "life does not matter without (fill in the blank)"  because God is here, all around me. Sometimes in such amazing ways....

But as i watched Gilmore Girls, i just felt such FALSENESS in Rory's scripting if Rory were BRAVE. But maybe that is the point, maybe Rory is NOT BRAVE. For Logan i felt truth, THAT i understood. I wanted Rory to take THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED - for her.  For her. as Robert Frost says,

"And that has made all the difference"  Although it is believe he did NOT mean "it was better down that road" - he actualy meant, he chose one, and YES it made a difference, BUT he only knows that becuase the other road was DIFFERENT - not necessarily better. In either road, you don't know the ending.  If i find my Robert Frost book i will elaborate.......

Well, i WANTED RORY to PICK THAT ROAD LESS TRAVELED. The one where the young graduate with stars in her eyes and Christiana A. in her mind who can ONLY think of career....choses the OTHER ROAD. The Logan adventure.  Logan "gets it" - he gets it. Rory does NOT. End of story.

JG if you stil don't see what i am getting at, well, then, i can't spend even more time on this, i went way overboard already. We will never see eye to eye so i guess i just wasted a lot of time anyway on this. And IMO you would never "concede" anyway, this is only a game now, after all this. So, i will forget you and just pretend i am THINKING TO MYSELF and if anyone wants to eavesdrop - HERE IT IS - my rollercoaster mind whirling about.... And to repeat, this is not "universal" - this IS me basing all this on the SCRIPTS and what happened for THOSE TWO CHARACTERS. If i knew two young people in this same situation, i WOULD take Rory aside and say, "Rory, what are you afraid of? Did you NEVER see yourself married to Logan (she did)" I would talk to her to get to the bottom of it and i would NOT - NOT just say, "Oh well, men are like streetcars, there will be another one, and hey, you will know that car when you see it...Ok, DINNER!" as Lorelai hastily did. I would have more interest than that.

I REPEAT: To have Rory REJECT Logan and stay stuck in "i am a famous journalist - forevermore" kept her stuck in her little childhood dream. Think about it - think about it. But to move her to California B*LLS TO THE WALL- WFO - now THAT's entertainment!  I am MUCH MORE interested to see that story evolve, rather than her DOING THE SAME D*MN THING SHE DID FOR SEVEN SEASONS - BOOORINNNG.

OH, GREAT STORY! One day at work, at lunch, two men sat at my table. Just the three of us. I knew them both, liked them both. "Jack" was lamenting things going weird with this woman he was into.  Well, i overheard and finally i said, "Ok, ok, you men have this all wrong - allow me to explain this..." I proceeded to explain the woman to the man, and told him how to proceed. I then bought his a book "Mars and Venus on a Date" which i think is so far THE BEST book about serious dating out there (John Gray)  Well, before i got hold of this guy, he was about to give up and move one. After our conversation and a few more sessions, things turned around. I saw him in the hall way, and he was all smiles and he told me he was ENGAGED. I was the SECOND person he told.  I attended the beautiful wedding, and now they have a precious baby.  OH, they are YOUNG ish - in their 20's. She is i think a little younger. And yeah, there was trepidation. But i was actually able to make them see that SOMETIMES there is no great wisdom about your "age" and so on.   Sometimes, YOU TAKE A RISK becasue you are able to see the WONDERFUL POSSIBLITIES. And THAT is also ADVENTURE and GROWTH and AS GOOD AS a career ANY DAY - IN - MY - HUMBLE - MASTER'S - OPINION. HA!

Well, if you put a nickel in me, i am very efficient!  Oh and i am stil older than JG.   This is FUN.

I truly hope this is my LAST POST of any substance. I just don't think i can do this in the future. Time to - move on....


THE END.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 15, 2007, 11:10:15 am
I don't think Rory choosing a career over love is the big controversy. The Road Not Taken is having both, waiting until she's done nurturing herself before she begins to nurture Logan and finally nurtures a next generation. She isn't ready to get married, the canon is the canon, and we have to take her word for the fact that having her options wide open is something she wants or needs for herself.

The controversy, I think, is Logan choosing his career over Rory, choosing his stability over Rory, and choosing his avenue for redemption after his gaffe with HBI over Rory. They could have been engaged, or just stayed committed to one another, but it wasn't good enough, he wanted her by his side.

Well, Logan, the deal is, if you want to be by her side, you put yourself there. Rory doesn't need to be standing next to him to love him and trust him, nor does she need to hold his hand while she's reading her rejection letters. If she did, she would have put herself in Palo Alto next to him. He needs her presence to make it work, not the other way around, and he was given a simple choice (as Rory was so many times.) Either keep up or give up.

They aren't one flesh yet, so spare me the "whoever finds a job first is the primary breadwinner whose career must be followed." They haven't thrown their lots in together, just said they loved one another. She doesn't even know what her lot is yet, and she shouldn't be expected to turn it over to her lifemate so soon after finishing all the work to get to that point in life.  What options she exercises with her life is important, and choosing it for herself is way more important than falling into the sheltered arms of someone whom, while he loves her very much, considers her a factor instead of an equal.

I get that Logan likes to figure everything out himself and then turn over his results to the person he's trying to convince. That lack of desire to make status and interim reports is an established part of his character. McMasters-Bujold would love this guy. That habit would make a great provider of him, but I get that Rory is more of an I-need-to-be-consulted kind of a girl. Besides, we know that she doesn't like mooching off Logan, with or without his blessing.

So here's the thing, he might just be doing it for Lorelai. Maybe the house and the stability and the inflexible plans are his way of trying to be a dependable guy per Lorelai's anxiety about him, and he misjudged the impact of the gesture on Rory. After all, Lorelai always did like the guys who treated Rory well more than Rory did. If I'm right, there's still plenty of time for him to throw it all out and go back to being a bad influence if it's the only way they can be together... in New York!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: ChocolatGilmore on May 15, 2007, 11:16:05 am
 † †
Quote
In what universe is marrying a rich guy, moving to a house he's providing for you, and maybe finding a job in the place where he's moving for his job any kind of independent, thrilling, adventurous move? I couldn't think of anything more bourgeoisie if I tried!

† †I don't know exactly how I feel about the whole thing (my experience as a journalist-turned-SAHM has been that you can have it all, but not all at once).† †But this part above is absolutely true. †Well said. † :)
† †


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Devilina07 on May 15, 2007, 11:58:43 am
What gets me is they don't count DVR viewings! I watch at broadcast time, I skip commercials the old fashioned way, by going to the bathroom or the kitchen. But I love cotton and kind of like Maybelline, and I'll never drive a car that weighs more than a pickup truck. Does that answer your question, Neilsen!?
That's actually false now.  As of mid-December, Nielsen began to also count what the viewing audience records on their DVRs.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 15, 2007, 01:57:10 pm
Note - i did not say that quote somewhere above about "rich guy" - i would not reduce Logan to "rich guy" - sorry. That just got mangled up because i quoted it from - JB if i said that right, No. JG? Sorry.  BUT - i think there are parts to the quote that are ok. My problem was, this person who wrote it was trying to attribute some stupidity to me that i NEVER SAID quite that way.  It was a MISINTERPRETATION of my meaning.  I do not like that very much, when a person does not take the time to READ and at least address what is actually being said. One of my pet peaves.

SO, the little quote above should NOT read Zeddie - i just wanted to be fair on that.

You know what? We all have our BIASES - no one on this forum speaks the absolute truth or the best possible answer, blah blah, even those who try to "police" the others speak from their own prejudices and own experiences or what they read or whatever. Therefore this is like 99% BS from all of us.  :D

Lessa i disagree with you about the Logan chosing issue... later on.....

Lessa - i have to revert back to something i said earlier.  My argument works ONLY if Logan is her soulmate - if he is "the one" - if he is NOT "the one" then i have nothing to say; Rory should have split two years ago after she figured out he was not "the one", rather than waste Logan's time.

AND I DON'T THINK LOGAN CHOSE HIS CAREER OVER RORY - lessa.  I think that was COINCIDENCE.  I think LOGAN thought "We WILL work all of this out - let's just DO THIS, RIGHT NOW - let's TAKE THE PLUNGE and not worry so much about NEXT YEAR - we wanna be together IT IS TIME FOR THE NEXT STEP. And he was RIGHT, after three friggin years? I would have to hear his speech AGAIN, but i think he saw Rory graduating and thought - "Gee, what are we waiting for, here is an opportunity where Rory is free from school, AND she did not get the fellowship - I THINK THIS IS A SIGN"  Hey i have had a few romances peter out after 3 years because NOBODY WOULD MAKE THE NEXT MOVE. One day you are just looking at each other like the end of that one SEINFELD - like "Ok, well... see ya....". You are left with this LIMP FEELING IN YOUR HEART. I know for sure, there are like TWO MEN i could have married, had one of us spoken up and said, "I love you and would like to marry you" but no, we just were too scared or proud or whatever.  No, this Logan thing was NOT a  thing five years in the planning = this was LOGAN BEING EMOTIONAL as maybe he never was before this. Forget "choosing" - this was an affair of THE HEART, not a PRO/CON LIST. Am i the only person who believes this then? OH, I FORGOT - IN MY OPINION.

But if you do NOT think Logan was Rory's soulmate, then i am just saying NOTHING to you in particular.


IN ALL FAIRNESS . I also have a friend who travels all over the world, as a broadcast journalist. And she is not with anyone, i don't think, unless she hides this fact - she lives in London. BUT - that was her bag - ok? She did not find some guy and move in with him and gush and say "I love you Logan" as if she was open and then say "Oh, sorry, i want to be Christiana Amanpour, with my little Baby Voice here, so - naw, screw you , dork you will only slow me down." My friend stayed a loner - which i happen to think is the more honorable thing to do. IN MY OPINION.

IN MY OPINION. IN MY OPINION. IN MY OPINION. 
I still believe all signs pointed to engagement. A LONG ENGAGEMENT! Some of us have pointed that out = WHY didn't Rory just say YES and then qualify it later with "I NEED a longish engagement, Logan" Did she ever TRY - NO. Ok then, maybe she does not love him.

But GEE WHIZ the show is ending. So we don't get to meet the man Rory will marry?  That sucks, IN MY OPINION. 

Ok, say, why is is FINE that Doyle wants to follow Paris around - but Rory can't follow Logan around? Are we back down to the that old song?

"O - Hard is the fortune of all womankind
She's always controlled, she's always confined
Controlled by her parents, til she is a wife
A slave to her husband, for the rest of her life"

Is that the hidden song running in some of the minds in Forumville? I am just asking!

And here is another POINT - If she was "not ready" pray tell, WHAT would make her ready?  When she is the third female President of the United States? When she replaces  Christiana A. (sp?)  Or maybe when she gets her PhD?  WHAT - WHAT is the "right time" for a career person?  WILL SOMEONE TELL ME?" And if you say, "When it feels right" I will throw something at you... And also if you think she is TOO YOUNG, then we do disagree on the age thing and cannot debate that.

Just BECAUSE i messed up MY CHANCES that does not mean that 30 years later we cannot come up with better solutions. In my opinion.  As i said before, i do not think you just throw over a SOULMATE based on CAREER - i think you SHOOT FOR BOTH - and you either get divorced when you become CEO in London OR, you quit when you get demoted and pregnant - AH! OPTIONS!


Oh, ye of LITTLE FAITH. Just because half of us FAILED and messed up = that does not mean it is NOT POSSIBLE. There are people on this forum who feel they pretty much have it all - as much as they can. Believe it. We who failed, maybe we needed to do more, be smarter, speak up, have COURAGE, be more creative - take your pick.  In the future marriage and great career will be OLD HAT and NO PROBLEM becuase we will have solved not only all the logistics but also all the mental crap that holds us back.

I REFUSE TO LIVE IN A WORLD where i have to choose MY SOULMATE OR A JOB. Duh. QUADDUH.  I called it a "job" becasue HALF THE TIME Career ends up being nothing but a fancy name for going to work every day. Sorry, but that can be the sad outcome. You can find GREAT HAPPINESS in a job that is not perfect, OR, you can be miserable in a job people would kill you for!  So, even if Rory was waiting for everything to "settled" - define "settled" for me. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN unless it is code for 'I am not feeling it, Logan, i don't love you that much"  AHH = maybe that's it - they are not soulmates. Ok, my work here is done.

And if you are the type to launch your own business and so on where you KNOW you will never have time for a husband for like 15 years, then  WHAT ARE YOU DOING LEADING A GUY ON FOR THREE YEARS? Rory is NOT STUPID - she knew Logan was going to ask her to marry him one day. She KNEW. So she played him, as far as i can see.

Oh, what-  Logan should say, "Oh, ok, honey - what do you need then - another year, two years? five? Sure, Rory - take ALL THE TIME you need" What does that prove or do? NOTHING. Today, tomorrow..........

If you recall, Rory's answer to Logan when he posed some of these questions was NOTHING of an answer at all. She just dribbled on herself. No clue. No definitive anything.  So, then i should conclude that Rory is nothing but a little Tartolette who shacks up with rich guys in fine apartments and who is secretly so selfish that she just breaks a fine man's heart on a whim, with NO GOOD ANSWER. Great - she IS LORELAI isn't she!

Well, as you can see, i can spin this story anyway i want to - Lessa, while you are always thoughtful, articulate, well rehearsed, etc - you still have done nothing to change my opinions, so i respectfully turn from this argument now - as in, i don't think there is any hope in me getting my viewpoint across, since NO ONE is backing me up, except for a few people who PM me.  i can't keep flapping my gums - this is my precious time and i have RAPED my precious time allll day long now. Wow, i feel ike - INSANE after all this. TIME OUT. i gotta Stop. won't debate anymore because we won't move each other's needle.

I pretty much am writing all day long because i have proclaimed this GILMORE GIRLS DAY- a day of infamy.  I plan to stop after this. I cannot keep this up - it is wasteful for all of us........

OH, Sex and the City did it RIGHT - when Adin wanted to go to Vegas and marry Carrie - she said, NO (though she had the ring on) and Aidin looked at her and said, "If you don't wanna marry me RIGHT NOW, you won't ever wanna marry me"  I BELIEVE IN THAT STATEMENT, IN MY OPINION.

And again i say i disagree with Lessa, i don't think this is about Logan chosing a career. NO NO NO. Logan - only walked away because HE FELT REJECTED down to his very core. That was NOT him chosing his career - that was a broken hearted man realizing "This woman does not love me as i love her, and she never will" - Logan was hardly contemplating his career at that moment.  I think Matt the actor really played that scene well. I believe him, and i could read his inner thoughts. Very well done.

Um, oh yeah,  IN MY OPINION, AND IN MY OPINION.

GOOD BYE CRUEL WORLD.


PART TWO - I wrote this insane thing AL OUT OF ORDER.
Why Logan had all those plans.  My theory on that is twofold. Yes, for Lorelai's benefit, due to the past grief - he wanted all the questions answered.  Yes, i think he overstepped it, HOWEVER i also think he had a little "plan" - and it backfired. I think, maybe the writers wanted me to see Logan as that guy who is sweetening the pot, precisely because he knows just how much he is asking. YES, my goodness Logan knew he was going out on a limb (he was shaking on it)- he knows Rory - better than most people. He is smart, intuititve, he picks up on stuff - he is with Rory step for step in the Intellect Dept. whereas maybe some other admirers were not there.

[uMARRIAGE NEED NOT BE A DEATH SENTENCE TO YOUR OTHER DREAMS [/u]- if that is what we seem to be saying, then forget it.

I think this old paradigm  "marriage means i can't have freedom" is OUTDATED - just very outdate for me.

One of my conclusions is that Logan was indeed trying to do a salesjob that failed.  Seeing him as pushy or controlling is, IMHO, being unfair to Logan.

I WILL POST THIS AND THEN I A LITTLE WHILE COME BACK AND BLOW HALF OF IT AWAY - IT IS JUST TOO LONG and i don't think i deserve this much space. So, don't worry THIS WILL DISAPPEAR. I just copy it and keep it for myself.  :)

BETTER EXPLANATION OF WHAT I MEAN - maybe.

Logan got a job in California. He did not want to leave Rory. Hmm. (Logan's inner thoughts) "What to do. I know! I am gonna ask Rory to be my wife at some point anyway, and i don't wanna leave her, and i wanna make an honest woman of her and (DING) - OH MY GOD, Rory is THE ONE - she's IT - i love her and she is MY SOULMATE! And the time is NOW - it's a sign. (HALLELUJIA!) Ok, i am gonna propse at her graduation party! Wow this is great - scary but great!"

Proposes, gets NO ANSWER.  Sweats the entire time until she cuts him down in parking lot. Meaning, Logan was already very dejected, but gave it one last try to SAVE HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH RORY. Because a definitive NO means this: It means, Rory is quite willing to LOSE LOGAN FOREVER. Yes, folks, that IS what it means. THINK "DEAL OR NO DEAL!" HA! Does that ring a bell in your head?

ONCE A MAN ASKS TO MARRY YOU, IF YOU SAY "NO" - THE REASON DOES NOT MATTER. YOU SAID NO. and that MEANS HE CAN SAY, "Oh, ok - NO then. Bye" and he can walk away and never ask you again. Therefore, if you say NO that means you are OK WITH NEVER MARRYING THAT MAN. See how it works?  Everyone is talking about her career and is she too young - well that is not how it went down, she just FUMBLED and NEVER said, YES - she did not say "YES, IF WE CAN WAIT A WHILE" or "YES, but if i get a dream career you must be willing to relocate." SHE - SAID - NO.  Got it?

This was not just some little thing, he did not ask her to PROM for frick sake, he asked her to MARRY HIM.

Cut to GRADUATION.

RORY: "Oh um, i cannot marry you, the answer is no."
LOGAN: "Huh?" (o no, she does not want me..... i am crushed)  But, haven't you ever wanted to marry me, wasn't this where it was going some day (whatever he said, i was busy crapping my pants)
RORY: Ah, well maybe... but you know, i just don't like the color blue anymore... 
LOGAN:    ??? But, you can work ANYWHERE - In California at one of the fine papers!"
RORY: Hmm, no, i would rather - wait for something else - i have no idea WHAT - but - you know, maybe i will run into Christiana Amanpour in the diner, and Lord knows if i leave right now with you that will NEVER HAPPEN - ever - my life will be OVER.
LOGAN: (Ok, well, i am so stunned, i see you fading away from me. YOu are drifting back to a dot on the horizon. And i do not even know you.  I cannot kiss you because - you are but a phantom now.  Where was i going?  I don't know anything, except, YOU HAVE REJECTED ME BECAUSE YOU DON'T LOVE ME, AND I LOVE YOU. Ok wow. I have to walk off now...) "Goodbye Rory. "

This was not about Logan choosing his career, i say again.

Bye.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: zeddie on May 15, 2007, 03:52:31 pm
HEY = LET'S ALL WATCH THE PILOT LIKE RIGHT BEFORE THE LAST ONE! I am gonna do that NOW - i hve my DVDs out. Well, how bout it? We could all do this sort of TOGETHER - full circle! Ok, maybe think about it, LOVE YOU ALL SO MUCH.    :-*

I am probably gonna leave this forum for a while, so i just double posted - i broke a rule, and i am sorry but that other one was so long.

Hey, i just wanted to say that on YouTube i saw some nice tributes to Rory and Logan. I was looking for the breakup speach which i have not found

CAN ANYONE LINK ME TO THE BREAKUP SPEECH PLEASE? THANKS! if you can, i would be grateful.

Anyway.  You know, i can understand people feeling Rory is too young and all that, and even thinking Logan "did too much" with the avocado tree and all.  Ok, i can consider those things.

And then there is the matter of me, the viewer being happy.  I think i see MORE people unhappy about the breakup - i think that is what i counted. So I still have to ask, why did the writers/producers have to make me SOOO unhappy at the very end of the season.

CHECK THIS OUT - they could have had Rory get a great job in California too! IN the Same city! WHY NOT? Why can't my favorite show act on my "suspension of disbelief" just this one time, and give me my happy ending.  Why?  Is there a LAW? No.  There is no law.  Rory and Logan COULD HAVE found work in the same town and decided to get married - Rory could have been ready (if only she could learn to talk like an adult anyway)

All this analysis - me the WORST of all of us. And yet, all i wanted was a little Hollywood Magic - just give me a little magic AFTER i have been FAITHFULLY watching, delivering my eyeballs to the sponsors for seven years - can't you reward me with a wedding?  I mean, is that asking SOO MUCH?

Sorry for double posting, but i wanted to say the header separately.

My last four words i want....

"I WILL marry Logan."  No just kidding. How about
"I'm a Gilmore Girl." that says it all.......  :D  :'(


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: scrsftbalgrl19 on May 15, 2007, 04:40:26 pm
Yeah... watching the first episode is a good idea. It will give us a contrast of the characters then and now.

BTW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kciK4u6SgqU&mode=related&search= here is the last part of the episode which includes the breakup speech.

I am just really sad about how everything ended up the last episode. I thought that going all or nothing was pretty immature by Logan. I mean, there are so many couples that went back and forth. I think that if he really loved her, he could have waited. But can I just say it, "WHAT AN ASSHOLE!!!!"  He should have been way more understanding. I mean come on!!! She's what like 22? Younger than all the people I know who are married. By several years.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Dani257 on May 15, 2007, 04:42:14 pm
Quote
I get that Logan likes to figure everything out himself and then turn over his results to the person he's trying to convince. That lack of desire to make status and interim reports is an established part of his character. McMasters-Bujold would love this guy. That habit would make a great provider of him, but I get that Rory is more of an I-need-to-be-consulted kind of a girl. Besides, we know that she doesn't like mooching off Logan, with or without his blessing.

Can you give some examples?  Any that directly involve their relationship?  I don't think Rory needed to be consulted on what Logan did when he decided to go ahead and buy the internet company (or whatever lead to the business failure) just like I don't think Rory needed to discuss with Logan what classes she registered for in her senior year.  The only thing that I can recall Logan did that would relate to them as a couple without consulting Rory in the process was this last episode, with the whole house, the proposal without any discussion beforehand.  And, one episode late (and late is an understatement) doesn't count to me as an established pattern.  So, are there incidents I'm forgetting?

I also don't think Rory would have been mooching off of him.  At least, the way he described it, he was picturing them as both having careers within the marriage.  They would have been contributing to their lives together, neither one mooching off the other.



I also have to say, although I have no plans on getting married, just in case something happens (never say never) I truly hope the entire universe doesn't believe that if you can't say yes the very first time someone asks you, that means the relationship is doomed.  That a no must automatically be interpreted as "I don't love you, I never loved you that much"  Since it's so easy to get things misconstrued here, I'll say that these are my words.  In fact, unless the words are encased in the nifty purple background, anything I say are my words only.  Obviously, I'm referring to other posts, but I'm not trying to imply that I'm directly quoting anyone or trying to misquote anyone.  Got it?  Anyway, now that that is possibly straight, I couldn't guarantee that the minute someone, even someone I'm deeply in love with, proposes to me, I'll know beyond a shadow of a doubt, without questioning or reservation that I'll be able to say yes right away.  I don't particularly agree with Rory's reasons (although I do think there are legitimate reasons for why marriage at this time wouldn't have worked -and I still think Logan would not have proposed if it wasn't a quick and easy way to break them up and make the break up stick) which were very vague, but still think sometimes there are good reasons to hold off on a marriage, and the relationship can still hold strong and a couple can get married later.  And, I'm sure Logan is glad that at least one woman didn't feel like unless you can say "I love you" when she does, it means that you won't ever love her.  And, I'll say right now, stubborn or not, my views are set in stone.  I won't believe differently. 

I still think the end of things was out of character for Logan.  At the very least, even if he had ended up walking away just the same, the Logan I know would have at least argued more.  After their first break up, he's always been very tenacious, even against seemingly impossible odds (your girlfriend believing you cheated on her with multiple women is a pretty big hurdle, and he tackled that).  And, I really need to know why his behavior is in character for Logan.  No generalities, no "this is how men act" or "this is how someone of Logan's upbringing or cultural status would behave" but specific to Logan, based on prior episodes that helped establish his character.


Setting aside my shipper disappointment, one of my problems is that it happened so late.  I was a Rory/Dean shipper.  I hated when they broke up at the time(s) but it was okay.  And, not because he was her high school boyfriend and I didn't expect that she would stay with one guy from high school until the end of days, although I didn't expect that.  But, because the show didn't end on that note.  There was time to get used to it to focus on other stories.  Okay, it would have been better if they didn't keep trotting Dean out to show how much he still was a slave to the charms of Rory, but even that stopped sometime in season 5, and it left two seasons to fade away the image of a break up.  You can't have a happy ending with a break up.  I never liked Rory and Jess together, but if the show had ended at Rory's Chilton graduation (where Rory said goodbye to Jess over the phone) or even an episode after, that would have been a sad ending.  Maybe that supposed "bittersweet" one that Ausiello had the nerve to call this.  I do not think that word means what he thinks it means.  But, it couldn't have been happy.  Taking away my feelings about the pair, Rory couldn't have ended the show happy, or excited, or content at that time.  It took time to get there.  They didn't give the R/L relationship the necessary time to heal from a break up.  They should have done one of two things.  Either break them up much earlier (while Logan was in London would have been an ample time) or accepted that, no matter how they originally assumed Rory's story was going to end when they started, the story developed in a different direction.   And, I don't buy that they didn't know the show would end with a break up.  They said that tonight's episode could serve as either a season or series finale.  So, they knew the possibility was there that anything they wrote in these last episodes was going to stick.  And, I can't buy that they were going to stick their heads in the sand like ostriches, and say, "We'll break them up now and bring them back together in the eighth season.  Because we are getting another season!  We are!  We are!  I can't hear you!  Na-na-na!  I won't listen to the faintest hint that it might not happen."  Too many signs pointed to the possibility that no matter what, it could end. 

But, maybe just contradicting everything I said, even if they had come back, I don't think Logan would have been there.  What I saw was pretty much not only slamming the door shut on the relationship, but having a big dragon swallow the door and then dive into the ocean, never to be seen again.  (I don't know why I'm getting all descriptive here)  If nothing else, I think they gave Lorelai the words that we were supposed to take to heart.  Rory wouldn't hesitate with the right guy.  She'd have no qualms.  She did with Logan, Logan's not the right guy, he never will be.  I disagree, naturally.  Heck, I have qualms and hesitate deciding if I really do want to eat a brownie, even when I'm already headed into the kitchen to grab one. And, I have no doubt that I love brownies.  I would think, even though yes some people don't need to think and are happy and everything words great, that qualms in the decision of getting married are natural for some people and doesn't define the seriousness of your relationship forevermore.  Er, my point, is, regardless of all that, laying aside all debates from the factions of the audience, Lorelai, speaking for the writer of the episode, who was ultimately speaking for David Rosenthal was telling the audience that Logan isn't the guy.  Case closed, end of story.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: ~*SailorMoonFan*~ on May 15, 2007, 07:28:29 pm
now after having seen "bon voyage" , i personally have to say that i found this episode a little more emotional...everything rory and lorelai building up for ended. i started crying during the very last scene where rory & paris are leaving the good ol' apartment and rory flicks the lights off and then "executive producer: David Rosenthal" pops up.  :'( that truely felt like the end of everything

I also liked how lorelai was more serious at the yale graduation. The chilton grad. was funny and the yale grad was serious...just like our adorable gilmore girls. oh well.

Sayonara and goodnight  :)


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: lessa on May 16, 2007, 11:00:17 pm
Quote from: Dani257
...
Er, my point, is, regardless of all that, laying aside all debates from the factions of the audience, Lorelai, speaking for the writer of the episode, who was ultimately speaking for David Rosenthal was telling the audience that Logan isn't the guy.  Case closed, end of story.

She hated surprises like Richard's impromptu Yale interview at the Bulldogs game, and she was irritated to highly annoyed by Logan's pop-theater courtship. Particularly, though, I meant the way she overreacted, criticized, and eventually grew a distaste for his surprise visits from faraway places without calling first. She liked to be prepared for things, even swoony things like being proposed to in public. And with important things, surprise springs her into action with lots of stress, self flagellation, and excessive verbalization about pros and cons.

As for Logan and Rory not being done yet/ not having time to unravel their breakup, I agree. But with imagination and a concerted effort of fans, all things are possible.

I think you may be reading a little too much manipulation into the final remarks, though. For one, just because Logan isn't "right" now doesn't mean he never could have been. As for scriptwriter denial, all I can say is, at least you finally agree they should have broken up while he was in London. But in hindsight, a stable, highly committed relationship with few demands on her time seems perfect for her.

And I thought Lorelai was trying to tell her that being with the right guy would be "right," and that's how she would know who he was. Logan wasn't, it seems, because keeping him open as an option required that too much of her presumably limitless potential be factored out. I don't mind that it didn't look harder on her, I'm not a sadist. But big things were happening for Rory, things she wanted and presumably deserved, and Logan, like Dean, tried to get in the way of that in order to possess her. And, like Dean, (and maybe Lorelai) broke up because he needed to come first. Was Lorelai comparing Rory to herself or Luke?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Ace Girl on June 01, 2007, 02:34:02 pm
I am so sad and why can't she say yes to that cute cute boy!!!![/
() :'(color]


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: JessMoo14 on June 21, 2007, 09:54:58 pm
i can't believe that rory said no to logan! i was so hoping she would say yes to his proposal!!! i an terribaly sad she said no!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: PrettyTownSpinster on June 22, 2007, 10:38:04 am
I don't think she was sure about what she wanted to do as far as relationships go.  I think she made the right choice.  I like Logan a lot but if you aren't right for someone th best thing to do is move on


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Ggirlfan on September 04, 2007, 06:55:04 pm
I agree that Rory made the right choice in not jumping into marriage with Logan. She's young, just graduated college and has her whole life ahead of her.  It's interesting that the same girl who was devastated and bawling (and I was bawling right along with her) in the season finale of Season 6 saying goodbye to Logan when he was going to London, didn't seem to have much of a reaction when Logan gave her the final "Goodbye Rory". 

The only thing that I can summize is that Rory did a lot of growing up in her last year of Yale with out Logan, and realized that it doesn't mean she isn't complete without him.  She made some new friends on her own, and wasn't always tagging along with Logan's friends anymore.  She had developed a life for herself.

Don't get me wrong, I really liked Logan and I think he was great with Rory and I was very disappointed they didn't stay together, but I agree with Rory's reasons.  I hated that the show ended so abruptly with the final "Goodbye Rory" though.  It made it seem so emotionless. 

Oh, if Rory was going to say no, then WHY would she tell him at the graduation???  Wouldn't it have been a little more respectful to talk to him when they were more alone?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: gilmore2972 on September 09, 2007, 06:38:39 am
I'm glad that Rory said no but why did Logan have to walk out on her?
...and can Luke and Lorelai just marry already!
everyone knows they belong together


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: gilmore2972 on September 21, 2007, 02:48:41 pm
ok im mad that logan asked infront of everyone
and emily was annoying and the presser from the town made lorelai a reck
but richard was nice to lorelai to make this speaical for lorelai


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: homegrown_bliss on September 23, 2007, 10:43:52 pm
IMO its good that Rory didnt say Yes to Logan... she needed to figure things for herself.. experience the world.. travel.. be the person she wanted to be.. Marriage right after college just doesnt seem right.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmoreAddict7899 on September 24, 2007, 01:03:27 pm
This is one of my favorite and least fav. eppi.

I thought it was absolutly amazing to see Rory graduate from college. I felt like I did the whole Yale/Chilton thing with her.  :D

I hated how Logan proposed to Rory,though. I dont think they should have gotton married, but I really wish they stayed together. I just think they couldnt have ended a little less.....sad.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: homegrown_bliss on September 24, 2007, 09:35:55 pm
ambush proposal... thats how i look at it..

good decision tho from Rory to go out and talk about it. It was already a hint that she will say no coz she thought twice right there and there.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: iloveegilmoregirls on November 23, 2007, 12:56:41 pm
I think it's really sad that Rory says no to logan. I mean, i know that she wanted wide open options and that she wanted to be able to choose her life without limitations, but i just think that she should've said yes because she could've worked at a really good paper in San Fransisco. and also, i don't think Rory truly loved logan, cause if she did, she would've given up anything to be with him. and plus she really wasn't giving up anything yet, because there wasn't any jobs that she would've had to turn down to move there with him. idk. it's just sad, and i don't think Rory really loved him.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: iloveegilmoregirls on November 23, 2007, 01:01:16 pm
also.. i forgot to add: even though i think getting married right after college is a little insane, they could've waited like a year to get married and just been engaged and live together for a while. they worked so hard to get where they were to just give it up. but i also think that it was dumb of logan to say basically all or nothing. i mean if he really loved rory he would've tried long distance for a little while. I can understand where he's coming from though, because he would rather find someone who's willing to drop everything and be with him because they love him, but still. idk. i just think it's devastating because i loved them together.

i wish gilmore girls would have one of those things.. i forget what they're called, but like where they come back and make like a 2 hour thing of what's happened since the end of season 7.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Marieke on June 09, 2008, 10:01:29 pm
I think too that Logan and Rory could have waited for a year or more and just been engaged... this "all or nothing" reminds me at Lorelai and Luke and for Lorelai and Luke it was definitely   wrong to decide their future in one second
I thought Logan and Rory were the perfect match

all in all the episode was really sad and emotional


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: katie_lou on June 13, 2008, 10:31:57 pm
So Matt Czuchry has said that he was contracted on to appear in the shortened season 8 if it went ahead. <see news board>.
I wonder if the writers didn't force them to break up to wrap up the story if the series ended (as it did) but then kept the door open for Rory to change her mind should more episodes go ahead. Though their break up is a little hard to come back from, I can't imagine in what other context Logan was supposed to return. He was sent by the writers to the west coast and he's working in Silicon Valley so technology investment not newspapers. The only scenarios I can concoct are: Something happens to Richard and they all return to Connecticut (but we already had one heart attack), or Rory contacts Logan and goes to see him in California (though she's on the campaign trail with little down time) or she runs in to him on the campaign trail as his job fell through?
Thoughts?


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: sadie99 on August 19, 2008, 07:37:35 pm
When I saw this episode, it made me so sad! Not only because it finally sunk in that the series was ending, but also because Rory said no to Logan! I think it stunk that she didn't get the job at the New York times like she wanted, but that meant that she could move to California with Logan and not have anything to hold her back! She so should have accepted! They were so great together!


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Steph-x3 on October 19, 2008, 07:22:59 am
When I saw this episode, it made me so sad! Not only because it finally sunk in that the series was ending, but also because Rory said no to Logan! I think it stunk that she didn't get the job at the New York times like she wanted, but that meant that she could move to California with Logan and not have anything to hold her back! She so should have accepted! They were so great together!

I totally agree, the fact that she said no in the first place was really awful. Like, logan had went to all that touble, he even asked Lorilai if it was okay by her to ask rory to marry him, and when he asked, she said, "can i talk to you outside for a minute". But the fact it was finished forever was probably the worst of it  :( I still get to see it every saturday, cause it's scotland, and we're cool and have it on E4, but it isn't the same (also, not implying scots are better than everyone else).


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: steph_ on October 19, 2008, 09:34:35 am
I think it's really sad that Rory says no to logan. I mean, i know that she wanted wide open options and that she wanted to be able to choose her life without limitations, but i just think that she should've said yes because she could've worked at a really good paper in San Fransisco. and also, i don't think Rory truly loved logan, cause if she did, she would've given up anything to be with him. and plus she really wasn't giving up anything yet, because there wasn't any jobs that she would've had to turn down to move there with him. idk. it's just sad, and i don't think Rory really loved him.

& also logan said he'd go where ever she went. like, he'd go with her to whever her work takes her and stuff.
also it solifites that it was the end. i have a feeling that if they had an eighth season they would have reconciled.
i have a feeling rory will regret it.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: GilmOre_fan4life on December 13, 2008, 07:05:53 pm
I didn't like this episode. Personally, I thought that Logan put too much pressure on Rory to marry him. If he really did love her as much as he said he did, then why couldn't he be satisfied with just having her in the first place. He should have been able to appreciate the fact that she doesn't want to get married so young, and he shouldn't have pressured her so much. This episode showed me a different side of Logan. For me it was a sad episode, because I thought Rory and Logan would be together forever. As Rory once says to Lorelai "these could be the ones".


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: Gilmore Gyrlie on April 27, 2009, 07:14:56 am
pretty good episode, liked the scene with Rory/Paris in the Graduation line.

While Logan did end up being a decent guy, Rory made the right choice.

All the pre-planning and public proposal, dude was ASSUMING waaaaaaaaay too much that she would accept.


Title: Re: 7.21 - Unto the Breach
Post by: thevoid99 on July 07, 2009, 03:11:04 pm
This was great.  It was like things were wrapping up for the series though I didn't really want it to end.

It was great for Rory and Paris to graduate and after 7 years of knowing each other.  It's amazing how close they are and Paris' hug was a surprise. 

It was good that Lorelai and Christopher could still talk to each other and be friends.  In the end, it was about Rory and I think Chris is starting to get that now.  They were OK as a couple until they got married.  I think it's a relief that they can be friendly to each other.

I loved Richard and Emily's song tribute to Rory.  I thought they were really good.  It was funny as well.

Whe Luke heard Lorelai said "it didn't mean anything".  He looked so hurt and he was excited about maybe getting a chance to start things right with Lorelai.  It was like the little boy in him got all sulky and such.

Kirk in a box.  That ruled!

Logan's proposal was a shock and I could understand Rory being confused and such.  In the end, I think Rory did the right thing.  She's 22 and has a whole life ahead of her.  As great as Logan was.  He could be the one but he's about to take a huge step into his life as well.  I think in a way.  Rory saying no to the proposal is her telling Logan that now he's about to embark on his own journey.  He's going to have to do it by himself and for himself now.  I think if it wasn't for Rory.  He would still be stuck as a party boy living off his parents and forced to work under his dad and be this complete screw-up.  In the end.  Logan became a better person through Rory.  He's got a future.  Hell, I think of the boyfriends Rory had in her life.  Jess and Logan were the ones that got something out of it.  Jess is now a writer and running a publishing company and Logan is about to start an internet company that's about to take off.  If there wasn't Rory in their lives.  They still would be bad boys. 

The scene with Lorelai and Luke talking about the proposal showed that despite things being good between them.  Things are still awkward over what Lorelai had said at the diner and I think both of them aren't sure what to do.  Should they just be friends or more than that? 

We wait till the next episode and sadly, it will be the final episode.  Unless we can get that GG movie going.