GilmoreGirls.org Forum

Episode Discussion => Season 7 => Topic started by: Heidi on February 13, 2007, 02:28:34 am



Title: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Heidi on February 13, 2007, 02:28:34 am
Farewell, My Pet: While Richard recuperates, a new professor takes his place and steals Rory's heart with his charming ways. Meanwhile, Lorelai finds ways to avoid facing her problems with Christopher, including planning a funeral for one of Michel's departed dogs.

Click here (http://www.gilmoregirls.org/news/380.html) to read an exclusive GilmoreGirls.org interview with Cameron Bender, who plays Tucker Culberston in tonight's episode.  Then come back and comment with your thoughts and opinions!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Gilmore-Fan-13 on February 13, 2007, 07:41:47 am
I can't wait to see this episode!  I predict that Lorelai and Christopher will break up in this episode.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: javajunkie93 on February 13, 2007, 08:22:11 am
I think it's almost definite they'll break up here, I see no reason for them to drag out their relationship any longer.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Southern Lorelai on February 13, 2007, 08:25:24 am
I think that this will be another long episode. I do not think that the break-up will be that fast, but you never know with those Gilmore Girls. I'm so glad that feelings will FINALLY be discussed. It's been a long wait. I can actually watch this episode when it comes on... night class has been canceled! :) yay!!!! I hope to see more Logan and Rory... their relationship is perfect.

*Spoiler warning for sprees* I hope that her crush on the TA is only a "crush". Logan is just right for her!

*Spoiler over*

I think that it will take a long time for Luke and Lorelai to find their way back to each other. I just hope that they do make it. Love deserves a chance. Only 8 HOURS, 32 MINUTES AND 28 SECONDS LEFT!!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Gilmore-Fan-13 on February 13, 2007, 08:32:37 am
I am on the Academic Team at school the game is cancelled and so is my school is cancelled.  So I can watch Gilmore Girls tonight!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: GilmoreGirlFan2006 on February 13, 2007, 12:44:12 pm
If you go to youtube.com and type in Gilmore Girls 7.14 and go to the Audio Spoiler(If you want to hear it) listen to the end where Lorelai talks to Chris.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: JavaJunkie52 on February 13, 2007, 01:04:54 pm
I did not like how Cameron called luke and lorelai fans lukelais in his intreviews! if he knew anything about the show and the fans he would know that it Java Junkies. i have never heard what he called tham inmy life! lol. i just wanted to point that out.
im so excited for tonight im jiggling around doing nothing......its too far away! i cant wait for L/C to break up! FINALLY! I predict that Rogan are going to get engaged soon...just a thought....so i cant wait! anyway....i like marty better for rory but im fine w/ logan too hes become a lot more mature. only 5 hours 55  mins !!!!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 13, 2007, 01:26:21 pm
I predict that the much anticipated Lorelai & Christopher break up won't happen until the last 5-10 minutes of the episode.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: javajunkie93 on February 13, 2007, 01:37:23 pm
Ugh. Of course. They always, ALWAYS do that, leave us hanging so we THINK the next episode will take off the last but it doesnt and then we're all confuzzled.
BTW, person with the red font, it's insanely hard to read. Gave me a headache.
But Lukelais? UGH! That would be for when people combine names of couples to give them a singular identity, like Brennifer or Mondler or Brangelina, in that case it would be Lukelai or Loreluke, but that's not what the fans are called! WE'RE JAVA JUNKIES BABY!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 13, 2007, 01:55:06 pm
Ugh. Of course. They always, ALWAYS do that, leave us hanging so we THINK the next episode will take off the last but it doesnt and then we're all confuzzled.
BTW, person with the red font, it's insanely hard to read. Gave me a headache.
But Lukelais? UGH! That would be for when people combine names of couples to give them a singular identity, like Brennifer or Mondler or Brangelina, in that case it would be Lukelai or Loreluke, but that's not what the fans are called! WE'RE JAVA JUNKIES BABY!

I know he is way off. Fans of those couples, aren't refered to by that, that is what they refer to the couple as.

I hate the combo names for the most part, but there are afew that fit, like on Days of Our Lives, Sami and Lucas are refered to as Lumi, by the fans, and it fits them, but in general I dislike the whole combo names.

We are Java Junkies, we do not refer to Luke & Lorelai as Java Junkies, Lorelai is one, but that's a whole other meaning. We refer to Luke & Lorelai, as Luke & Lorelai, not some combo name. Why can't they just stop combining couple's names already.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: MonkeyKid on February 13, 2007, 01:55:44 pm
I did not like how Cameron called luke and lorelai fans lukelais in his intreviews! if he knew anything about the show and the fans he would know that it Java Junkies. i have never heard what he called tham inmy life! lol. i just wanted to point that out.


Crickey -- give the guy a break. Just because he doesn't know all the Gilmore Girls lingo doesn't mean you have to get all bent out of shape. Him not knowing what a java junkie is doesn't make him any less of an actor. It was a good interview to read. He took time to partake in it and as a supposed fan, you should be thankful that someone involved with the show -- at whatever capacity -- is kind of to interact with a fansite. Plus Lukelais is a fun wood anyway. You should do like Cam said and chillax.

-MK


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 13, 2007, 02:11:56 pm

Crickey -- give the guy a break. Just because he doesn't know all the Gilmore Girls lingo doesn't mean you have to get all bent out of shape. Him not knowing what a java junkie is doesn't make him any less of an actor. It was a good interview to read. He took time to partake in it and as a supposed fan, you should be thankful that someone involved with the show -- at whatever capacity -- is kind of to interact with a fansite. Plus Lukelais is a fun wood anyway. You should do like Cam said and chillax.

-MK

My problem with it, isn't that he refered to us as Lukelais, it's about the whole combo name thing in general. I just really dislike it, come on Ben Affleck was a part of two "Bennifers", in a row.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: wmushell on February 13, 2007, 02:25:29 pm
Crickey -- give the guy a break. Just because he doesn't know all the Gilmore Girls lingo doesn't mean you have to get all bent out of shape. Him not knowing what a java junkie is doesn't make him any less of an actor. It was a good interview to read. He took time to partake in it and as a supposed fan, you should be thankful that someone involved with the show -- at whatever capacity -- is kind of to interact with a fansite. Plus Lukelais is a fun wood anyway. You should do like Cam said and chillax.

-MK

Well said, MonkeyKid.  I agree - definitely give the guy a break.  The fact that he took time to give this site an interview is very cool and I loved reading what he had to say.  As far as the terms Rogan and Lukelais, try to be really fair to him because I HAVE seen those terms used on other sites and articles (not necessarily forums).  We use java junkies and headliners on the org, but he's here as a guest and should be considered respectfully as such.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 13, 2007, 03:09:26 pm
Only 2 hours left!!  Cannot wait to see Cameron Bender in tonight's episode.  I am a fan already b/c I am also a Michigan State University graduate. When I read this in the interview it made me very happy! Should be a good one tonight.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: iheartadamb on February 13, 2007, 03:42:05 pm
I NEED this break-up to happen tonight!!! I think it should happen in the last like ten minuites of the show, and the end should be Loralei running to Luke and telling him that it's over with Chris because it's him she loves.
 But I know that the latter dream isn't going to happen...yet anyway. So I'll settle for the end of this disaster (a.k.a. Loralei+Chris!!!)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: bethany on February 13, 2007, 03:46:27 pm
I swear to you, if the last 15 seconds of the episode are of Lorelai saying to Chris "we need to talk" and it cuts out, I would seriously go bonkers. I'm much comforted after the interview I just read. :)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Heidi on February 13, 2007, 03:48:07 pm
I swear to you, if the last 15 seconds of the episode are of Lorelai saying to Chris "we need to talk" and it cuts out, I would seriously go bonkers. I'm much comforted after the interview I just read. :)

Anyone who reads the interview has my thanks.  I hope you enjoyed it.

~Heidi



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 13, 2007, 03:48:41 pm
I can't wait for tonight!    ;D

Ew, Lukelais is just weird.  Really weird.  

And you people are right...if the episode ends on a freakin' cliffhanger -- Chris and Lorelei sitting there, everything still up in the air, unresolved -- I'll be severely pissed off.  I can't live on cliffhangers forever Rosenthal.  Throw me a bone!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Burtnnator07 on February 13, 2007, 04:11:46 pm
Amen!



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: april-rain on February 13, 2007, 05:04:37 pm
Ok, so this episode just finished airing here.

Chi Chi's funeral was remarkably sad, even for a dog. Michele was his usual horrible self, but when he said he was going to eat a hamburger in memory of his doggie, I cried a little.

Lorelai finally breaks down and tells Chris he isn't the right one for her - and he said something along the lines of "It took me 20 years for you to say yes, I should've known" or something along these lines. The ending made me swoon and cry! I totally adore Chris, but I know that Lorelai doesn't belong with him.

Rory and Logan are most definitely getting married, I see that somewhere in the future. I hope, anyway. This new teaching assistant is just a "crush", which she fully talks to Logan about.

omgz yo!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 13, 2007, 05:21:38 pm
"When you weren't there, part of me wasn't surprised."

OUCH Christopher Hayden.  OUCH.   :P


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: honkifuluvGG on February 13, 2007, 05:23:57 pm
Crickey -- give the guy a break. Just because he doesn't know all the Gilmore Girls lingo doesn't mean you have to get all bent out of shape. Him not knowing what a java junkie is doesn't make him any less of an actor. It was a good interview to read. He took time to partake in it and as a supposed fan, you should be thankful that someone involved with the show -- at whatever capacity -- is kind of to interact with a fansite. Plus Lukelais is a fun wood anyway. You should do like Cam said and chillax.

-MK

Well said, MonkeyKid. I agree - definitely give the guy a break. The fact that he took time to give this site an interview is very cool and I loved reading what he had to say. As far as the terms Rogan and Lukelais, try to be really fair to him because I HAVE seen those terms used on other sites and articles (not necessarily forums). We use java junkies and headliners on the org, but he's here as a guest and should be considered respectfully as such.

I agree completely.  And what a guest he is!  Congratulations Heidi on yet another remarkable piece you have attained for us Org'ers.  He really went into detail and appeared to be happy to give responsive answers as opposed to some you read, whereby the answers are short and uninformative.

Was it just me, or did anybody else get the impression that the Powers That Be may very well have suggested to him there could be future episodes for Tucker.  I kind of got the feeling that maybe if a season 8 was to oocur, we might see more of him.  He kept saying Headliners had nothing to worry about....for now   :-\.

Again thanks for the great efforts Heidi - it was a great read  :-*


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: the girls4ever on February 13, 2007, 05:31:44 pm
Did i hear this right? Did Chris just say he took advantage of Lorelai?!?  :o   ???


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: zeddie on February 13, 2007, 05:35:38 pm
WARNING: SPOILER.

Yeesh.  I am hating this whole breakup thing dragging out.   :wall: GET IT OVER.  I almost wish Chris would DIE - then we would not have to hate him.  

If this entire breakup is made to be CHRISTOPHER'S FAULT then that is BOGUS. I am hating Lorelai definding herslelf claiming, "Oh, i am perfect - you are the problem!"  That is BOGOSITY. After all, she hid that letter - she should have TOLD HIM. She still has feelings for Luke, RIGHT? Ah, it has to be YES, otherwise, how do they get back together??

Ok, show back on...


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: honkifuluvGG on February 13, 2007, 05:36:59 pm
You're sig is fantastic the girls4ever.  You just brought a huge smile to my face ;D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: gilmoregirllvr4eva on February 13, 2007, 05:37:56 pm
OMG i really really hope that lorelai and chris DIVORCE!!!! Michele is annoying...BTW LORELAI BELONGS WITH LUKE........


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 13, 2007, 05:40:21 pm
Lorelai looks really sad throughout this episode.  I really hate how she is telling Rory that everything is ok between her and Chris.  I feel like she is defending Chris's actions. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 13, 2007, 05:42:02 pm
Oh my God did she just say she wanted to cut Luke out of her life!!! NOOOOO


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: gilmoregirllvr4eva on February 13, 2007, 05:45:02 pm
OMG sookie just said if luke was outta her life if loreli would choose chris NOOOOO!!!!! Lorelai belongs with luke!!!!! Chris get offa the show we all hate you dont we??? If any one has links to pics i can have for my siggy please pm me i really want onle plz and thx


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: zeddie on February 13, 2007, 05:46:27 pm

I was TICKED OFF that Rory is having the hots for her teacher and like FANTASIZING ABOUT HIM (oh, and Googling him) at the drop of a hat. She isn't even all the way in love with Logan yet.

What is it with these darn kids?  If her head can be turned that fast, she will be doomed to a life of casual encounters, if not careful.   Logan has BEEN THERE for her, and here she is openly flirting and encouraging this guy.  Ok, i am bummed out now.  Can't ONE RELATIONSHIP be ok on that show?  Oh, maybe Sookie and Jackson -NO there was lying and deceit there too.

crap.  :smash: :wall: :fight:

Ok, GOOD, Rory came clean. But i am still "worried" - she sure seemed taken with that guy - she Googled him.  That ain't good.  When i was in love with my husband and married, i can honestly say i never did that kind of thing.  I didn't think about other men during - you know.  You have to COMMIT - ya know? In your mind, heart and soul.

I am underwealmed.  While the last scene was somewhat touching - it left me cold, depressed - it felt awkward - like the whole storyline was one big bogus detour.  Sorry if i am being to cynical, but... her "explanation" at the end was - blah.  It did not fit into the other six seasons somehow.  In my opinion, with their history, if she had WANTED to love him, she could have.  I am old enuf to know how you can learn to love someone - Love is a verb.  I think it IS LUKE - not just that Chris is not the right guy.  Why?  Because for a woman who SO DESPERATELY was "ready for marriage" she sure didn't put much soul into it.  She was ALL TALK but no action.  She sabotaged it in her heart, then cried wolf.  Whatever.   i am just GLAD this chapter is over now.

At this time, i am not even that excited about Luke and Lorelai coming together again, becuase i smell some more BAD WRITING around the corner. I hope not. I hope there will be some GOOD WRITING for the reconcilliation. Ok, i suppose i wil be unpopular on this.  I am just being a hard realist here. Thanks for allowing me to express myself.  Thank you.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: gilmoregirllvr4eva on February 13, 2007, 05:51:45 pm
SPOILER


OMG did u just see the smile on lukes face and lorelai's??? THEY so  belong together!!!! AWWWW


If any one has links to pics i can have for my siggy please pm me i really want onle plz and thx


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: gilmoregirllvr4eva on February 13, 2007, 06:00:51 pm
YES lorelai admitted to having feelings for luke!!!!!!!!


OMG did u just see the preview next week??!!!????!!!! YESSSSSSSS LORELAI AND CHRIS ARE BREAKING UPPPP!!!!!!!!


If any one has links to pics i can have for my siggy please pm me i really want onle plz and thx


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: rainbow on February 13, 2007, 06:04:30 pm
I think that Rory's crush is fine...  You can have a crush on someone and still love your true love...  I'm glad that Logan acknowledged that and told her that...  He has grown A LOT during the last year...

Poor Chris and Lorelai...  Even though I've never wanted them together it's pretty heartbreaking to see how sad it makes them to finally come to the realization that they aren't really "meant to be."  I really do think that no matter who Lorelai was with she had Christopher in the back of her mind...  I think she's finally come to a place where she's being honest with herself... and everyone else...  I wish Sookie or Rory could have been there to hug her... I hate that she came to that realization all alone!

Who knows if she and Luke will get back together... I guess we have to figure (and some of us will hope) that they will...


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 13, 2007, 06:04:51 pm
Wow what an emotional episode!!  All I have to say right now is that Lauren Graham's performance tonight was sensational!!  I must gather my thoughts before I post.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: j3zzzi on February 13, 2007, 06:09:05 pm
I was pleased to see Chris say, "I do," "I know" at the end of the episode. He may have ran out on Lorelai, but he can't run away from the reality of Lorelai's attraction towards Luke.
Hopefully we'll see a slow, slow progression in Lorelai and Luke's relationship.

I was also really happy to see Rory and Lorelai's little chat earlier in the episode. "I'm always on your side." "Bye Hilde..." I was so happy to see that mother-daughter relationship despite their own individual love lives. I feel like I haven't seen this all season, and I'm so happy I saw it.

I remember somebody saying before that Sookie acts as a "voice of reason" for Lorelai. I really saw that tonight. "Would it still be Christopher?" It made Lorelai realize - No - Christopher was a rebound because Luke declined Lorelai's invitation to elope last season. Go Sookie!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LGLDandRGLH4evr on February 13, 2007, 06:10:16 pm
*Squeals* IT'S OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GOD BLESS AMERICA! YES YES YES THE HORRID MARRIAGE IS DONE!!!!! I literally cannot sit still. I am grinning like an idiot! But IT'S OVER!!!!!!!!!! Yes, we all knew it was comming, but still IT'S OVER!!!

Poor Michel! I loved Chin-Chin! And the hamburger at Luke's thing was funny.

Sookie! OMG, She really made Lorelai think! And IT WORKED!!!!! *Gives Sookie medal and Nobel Prize*

Rory, oh Rory! She felt so bad about thinking the TA was cute. I was worried! I was like, No Rory. Don't do anything stupid. Stupid me! Rory was VERY sensible and talked to Logan and it worked out! YAY LOGAN AND RORY! And the senior year package? Very cute. Doubt she'll use the beer thingie though.

Paris funny, as always. Would've been PRICELESS to see her bellydancing.

Richard is getting well and is going to win a gold medal at the Olympics in really slow hospital walking in the caridac wing. YAY RICHARD!

And once again: IT'S OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LGLDandRGLH4evr on February 13, 2007, 06:10:35 pm
*Squeals* IT'S OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GOD BLESS AMERICA! YES YES YES THE HORRID MARRIAGE IS DONE!!!!! I literally cannot sit still. I am grinning like an idiot! But IT'S OVER!!!!!!!!!! Yes, we all knew it was comming, but still IT'S OVER!!!

Poor Michel! I loved Chin-Chin! And the hamburger at Luke's thing was funny.

Sookie! OMG, She really made Lorelai think! And IT WORKED!!!!! *Gives Sookie medal and Nobel Prize*

Rory, oh Rory! She felt so bad about thinking the TA was cute. I was worried! I was like, No Rory. Don't do anything stupid. Stupid me! Rory was VERY sensible and talked to Logan and it worked out! YAY LOGAN AND RORY! And the senior year package? Very cute. Doubt she'll use the beer thingie though.

Paris funny, as always. Would've been PRICELESS to see her bellydancing.

Richard is getting well and is going to win a gold medal at the Olympics in really slow hospital walking in the caridac wing. YAY RICHARD!

And once again: IT'S OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kamakazedeer on February 13, 2007, 06:10:49 pm
My Thoughts:

Chin Chin's funeral: someone earlier said this was sad I personally found it hilarious. "My Heart Will Go On" lmao. It annoyed me, however, that they panned over to Lorelai during the song how CHEESY!!! Whenever I hear that song I just think "I'll never let go Jack"...(throws up repeatedly).

Rogan/Tucker: I think this was just to show how strong the Rogan relationship really was. Tucker doesn't seem to be a threat at all. I definetley feel that based on their conversation (especially the whole "I belong to you" part) that they're going to be heading down the aisle soon.

Chris/Lorelai: I found it amazing that the writers were able to end this on such amicable terms. I mean Chris really seemed to understand, which is amazing since he hasn't understood anything for their entire marriage. Really?? Where was the understanding "break up" version fo Chris during the last few episodes?? That Chris would still probably be married to Lorelai!!!

In general I really liked this episode it was the first time I genuinley laughed during Gilmore Girls since last season. Although I did find some of the pop culture references extremely forced, just kind of like they were thrown in their at the last minute.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 13, 2007, 06:11:13 pm
JAVA JUNKIES!!!!!!!

i am truly.. ecstatic. i cannot express to you the sheer joy coursing through my veins. gilmore girls is now alive thanks to the deaeth of christopher. (thank you sookie for your beautiful words.)  i am now going to let out a sigh of relief that has been weighing me down this season.

sigh.

thank you.

now... although this joy runs through my veins, there is a.. pang of sadness that flows along with it. i shall never forget the day that Michelle got chin chin and paw paw.... a moment of silence please....


thank you.

and now.. a moment of radom spurts to signify.. EVERYTHING AWESOME ABOUT THE BREAKUP OF THAT IDIOT CHRISTOPHER AND OUR DEAR CONFUSED FRIEND LORELAI!!!!

D;FHSADLK;FJSLFJLSA;KFJIAJSEFSLKD;WIEJFSKMKL;SDFJEIJSKL;DFM;ELIJFS;LKDF;LJSEIFJSDJF;SLDKJF;EOFJSA;DKHFSL;DNVS;AJR3456789SDFIJVSFIA6E5789PIOYJGNFVIUWRTYPEI;RHGN;KJSFBNKJSDHFIHSDKJFHSJKFLSKFJLKSJFLJSLFJLSFDJLKSJFLSJFLSJFLJSFLJSLFJSLKFJSLFJLS!!!!!!!!

thank you.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LGLDandRGLH4evr on February 13, 2007, 06:11:20 pm
Sorry for the double post! *Kills double post* STOP RUNING THE BOARDS!!! *Double post runs away crying*  ;)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ggrox on February 13, 2007, 06:11:41 pm
I missed the first 1/2 hour!! someone pm me with details about the first chris/lorelai confrontation.....PLEASE...I"M DYING!!
I loved how Chris finally admitted that he "pushed her"......SHE LOVES LUKE!!!  :D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Devilina07 on February 13, 2007, 06:12:17 pm
Rory and Logan are most definitely getting married, I see that somewhere in the future. I hope, anyway. This new teaching assistant is just a "crush", which she fully talks to Logan about.
One just hopes that since this is the beginning of the school year, no further feelings develop over the course of the semester.  On either side.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: gilmoregirlslover8 on February 13, 2007, 06:14:15 pm
I will have to agree that this was a very emotional episode.  I like that Lorelai finally admitted that sh still has feelings for Luke.  

I am happy that Logan told Rory that he didn't have a problem with her having a *crush* on the teacher as long as she is still in love with him.  I see them getting married in the near future.

I love the preview for next week.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Devilina07 on February 13, 2007, 06:15:04 pm

I was TICKED OFF that Rory is having the hots for her teacher and like FANTASIZING ABOUT HIM (oh, and Googling him)
Fantasizing is a strong word.  She said she giggled and recommended a book.  Then Googled him.  That is NOT fantasizing.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 13, 2007, 06:18:57 pm
My thoughts on the episode...

Chris/Lor- Their conversation at the end was completely heartbreaking.  I am total JJ but the emotion these characters showed brought me to tears.  I am so glad Lorelai finally admitted to Chris she still has feelings for Luke...FINALLY.  I am also glad that their relationship did not end each of them blaming the other for things.  I believe Lor and Chris have a special bond.  Chris admitted he rushed Lor and her admitting she jumped really helped settle things in my mind.   Cannot wait to see the hopeful slow progression of Luke and Lorelai

Logan/Rory- loved them in this episode. The chemistry was great and I love how understanding Logan is being.  I just feel like Rory and the professor was out of character. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Gilmorefan xx on February 13, 2007, 06:23:24 pm
I thought Lauren Graham was amazing in this episode! I'm so glad she realized she didn't love Chris, I personally think she really didn't know she didn't love him until now. Like she said, she just wanted to love him.

One thing I didn't really like was how can you be attracted to someone that instantly? Like right when Rory set eyes on Tucker Culbertson she was mesmerized. He didn't even look that great. And he never really flirted with her or anything and yet she got totally nervous. I guess I've just never seen her or anyone else think someone's cute that fast.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: snicklefritz on February 13, 2007, 06:23:55 pm
Aww... the ending was so sad and not cause Chris and Lorelai are over.  but we see how sad Lorelai is... she feels the guy she really loves doesn't want to be with her. So she has been trying to make it work with a guy who loves her and wanted to be her husband (chris). I guess she realized that wasn't enough.

I thought Rory's crush on the TA was cute... she was even blushing when she met him, lol.  I still don't understand why she told Logan though. I realize that she was worried about him being jealous...after the whole Marty fiasco. But, you don't tell your bf/gf everytime you find someone attractive... thats stupid, lol

I agree that Sookie's question about whether chris would still be the one if there was never a luke was great!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Devilina07 on February 13, 2007, 06:24:11 pm
Chris/Lorelai: I found it amazing that the writers were able to end this on such amicable terms. I mean Chris really seemed to understand, which is amazing since he hasn't understood anything for their entire marriage. Really?? Where was the understanding "break up" version fo Chris during the last few episodes?? That Chris would still probably be married to Lorelai!!!
Props to Christopher and the writers for not making the character just another bad guy that needed to be disposed of.  I'm glad that he finally came to terms with the fact that things were handled badly.  He was upset understandly but I am glad that he came to his senses and realized that things progressed a little too quickly.  I thought this was good writing on the whole.  He could have stretched out being an ass for a long time.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: gilmoregirllvr4eva on February 13, 2007, 06:24:52 pm
OMG did u just see the preview next week??!!!?!!!!
If any one has links to pics i can have for my siggy please pm me i really want onle plz and thx
A very emotional eppy i agree
 JAVA JUNKIES ALL THE WAY FOR ME!!!!

IF ANY ONE OUT THERE HAS ANY LINKS TO PICS OF GG BECAUSE I AM NEW AND WOULD LIKE SOME HELP...i have posted in the siggy thread but no one replied to it so please someone reply to this one!!!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Burtnnator07 on February 13, 2007, 06:25:34 pm
Whew, finally. Horribly sad, yet satisfying.

This episode feels like it has been 7.5 seasons in the making. Finally, Chris realizes that he pushed Lorelai too hard, too fast. Finally, he realizes that Lorelai didn't do any of this intentionally. Finally, the viewers are told why Chris pushed so hard and fast. Finally, Lorelai realizes that she "jumped" after the break-up with Luke. Finally, she realizes that things will never be right with Chris, Luke or no Luke. And there was much rejoicing.

Overall, I thought it was a well-written and acted episode. The pacing felt good, not everything was jammed into the last 5 minutes. The humor seemed to balance out with the melancholy mood surrounding Christopher and Lorelai. Lauren's looks conveyed as much as her words.  And all the emotion when she was talking to Chris at the end? Perfect.

Sorry for all the Rogan fans, but did anyone else feel that things were going too perfectly for Rory and Logan? Like they were setting up something?

Favorite funny moments:
*Zach playing "My Heart Will Go On"... I actually like the way he played it too. Weird.
*Michel's story about eating a hamburger at Luke's
*The opening scene with all the hospital gossip and the slowest walk

Also, loved the promo. "Perhaps the the hen belongs with the rooster!" :hearts:


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: thatdamndonnareed on February 13, 2007, 06:25:58 pm
another good episode

Where to even start...Sookie might have had one of the best lines of the evening finally questioning lorelia's love for luke and her love for chris. It finally got the message through to Lorelai. Life isn't about settling, or the Rockwell dream. Its about falling in love and making it work. and love wasn't enough in the Chris/ Lorelai marriage.
 The best line was however when lorelai told chris his absence didn't surprise her. I was glad to see that their breakup didn't come in the last 5 minutes, but that there was 3 different scenes with three completely different approaches...I really liked Rory and Logan in this episode. Logan is maturing before our very eyes, and that fact that he can both admit and handle the "crush" situation is great. It adds a touch of reality.

The last scene was very well played out. Even for a real L/L lover like i am, i was truly saddened by the failure of the marriage. I was impressed with Chris' maturity (it took him long enough) But it was really nice to see that they both came to the realization that neither was at their happiest. I thought the entire episode was very well acted and really enjoyed it


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ashley723 on February 13, 2007, 06:26:35 pm
this was a great episode!! im so glad lorelai finally admitted to chris that she has feelings for luke...and im so glad their marriage is over!.....i think rory and logan will end up getting married, i just hope no more feelings for the TA teacher evolve. can any1 fill me in on what happened during the first 5 min of the show...cuz i missed it, was it just them at the hospital??


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Devilina07 on February 13, 2007, 06:27:44 pm
One thing I didn't really like was how can you be attracted to someone that instantly? Like right when Rory set eyes on Tucker Culbertson she was mesmerized. He didn't even look that great. And he never really flirted with her or anything and yet she got totally nervous. I guess I've just never seen her or anyone else think someone's cute that fast.
Being attracted to someone instantly is completely possible.  It's happened to me.  I knew the moment that I met my best friend that there was something there.  Almost love at first sight.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: jjpolitico on February 13, 2007, 06:28:29 pm
Show just ended and I'm still mulling it all through, but have to say that I think this was the best episode so far this season.  Not because of what happened, but how things happened.  I think this episode did DR proud - he said at the beginning of the season that we would see character growth, relationships change, some deepen, and after weeks of setting the stage, it finally happened.   I was getting worried that DR and this season was going to be just a string of episodes not culminating until the season finale.  I hope this is a turning point and not a one time occurance.  Watching the GG grow together as women is part of why I love the show so much.

The conversations between R/L about the TA crush made me proud.  We're all human and as my mom's friends say "just cause we're married (one could insert "or in a relationship") doesn't make us blind.."  ;) Its normal to feel an attraction to an attractive fella or girl, its what one does about that makes difference.  So glad Rory talked about it with Logan.

Second, both discussions between L/C should great improvement in Lorelai's communicating skills.  They had a real, open talk - something that I believe is vital to relationships.  I also take from their discussion that they will part as amicably as possible - not in anger.  Yes, it will take time, but that's reasonable, there's still a lot to work through on both sides. On a side note Lauren Graham is an amazing actress.  Her performance was stellar.

Lastly, thank the Lord for friends who are willing to ask the tough questions! Way to go Sookie....if Lorelai had asked herself that question a long time ago she may not be in this mess.

I know I said lastly above, but have to add one thing...did anyone else thoroughly enjoy the conversation in the hospital at the very beginning!  It was classic Gilmore!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kamakazedeer on February 13, 2007, 06:29:55 pm
I don't think it was "love at first sight" w/ Rory. It was just a "hey he's cute and makes my palms sweat" kind of thing lol.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 13, 2007, 06:31:06 pm
I thought Lauren Graham was amazing in this episode! I'm so glad she realized she didn't love Chris, I personally think she really didn't know she didn't love him until now. Like she said, she just wanted to love him.

Lauren Graham was Sensational in this episode!!  But I have to disagree about the Chris issue.  I think Lorelai still does love Chris but knows that he will also be second.  That is something she cannot change but wish she could as she said," your the one I want to want."


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: snicklefritz on February 13, 2007, 06:31:46 pm
I don't think it was "love at first sight" w/ Rory. It was just a "hey he's cute and makes my palms sweat" kind of thing lol.
yeah i agree... she was just attracted to him, and I think it scared her a little bit, because she loves Logan


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Courtney1983 on February 13, 2007, 06:32:24 pm
Wow...you're right. This has been looongg awaited. I think I liked last weeks episode better, but, Chris and Lorelai ending was very exciting. I actually like how he realized what was going on, and she was finally willing to give in and admit it.

The Rory and Logan "it's okay" conversation seemed too "acted" for me, but Alexis' acting when it came to being nervous and flirty...amazing. lol I felt embarrassed for her! I was thinking "Stop babbling!!" lol. But typical Rory to feel like she was totally wrong for doing it.  :D

I like how the Chin Chin funeral panned out, and I liked the "My heart will go on" sequence too! lol. I also like how Zach offered alternatives to Celine Dion...I'd do the same. Heehee.

I can't wait for next week, Promos seem great! I love when Ms.Patty and Babette get to talkin'. lol

Till next week,
~Cody ;)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 13, 2007, 06:32:54 pm
I think all my fellow Java Junkies can join together in one voice tonight and FINALLY rejoice...

IT'S OVER!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

*Phew* Finally.  I mean, that relationship/marriage was seriously the stupidest thing ever, but we finally don't have to sit through week after week.... And OMG, I was SO proud of Lorelei and even Christopher for saying all the things that I have believed all season long.  He pushed her.  She jumped.  She STILL HAS FEELINGS FOR LUKE.  Even if Luke wasn't there, Christopher isn't "the one."  Near far, her heart will go on...

Yeah, that was Celine.  Blame Michel (whom I thought to be adorable this episode...when Lorelei found the sheet music, that expression?!  AW!).  Anyway, I'm so happy so many things were finally discussed this episode.  The fact that Lorelei jumping from engagement into Christopher's bed was WRONG.  WRONG-WRONG-WRONG.  Not right, wrong!  The fact that Lorelei has never really been "into" this marriage, despite what she says.  I was really peeved when she kept trying to defend him to Rory, but happy that Rory took a stand and told it was all right...she was allowed to be upset.  And I was REALLY upset when Lorelei uttered those words in Sookie's kitchen...something about Luke, out of life...I don't know, I've blocked them from my memory they were so horrible.  But that look through the diner window -- ah fate.  Destiny.  Call it what you like.  She knew and she knew it THEN...ONCE LUKE DANES IS IN YOUR LIFE, HE'S IN IT FOREVER.  Oh yayness.  And ah -- the final bliss.  She finally admitted to feeling for Luke....YAY!  We all knew they were there, she was just so STUPID and blind and AH.    

I also thought the Rory/Logan scene was amazing.  YES, even when you're in a committed relationship, it IS possible to have crushes.  It's human to find other people attractive.  That doesn't mean that you want to sleep with them.  It doesn't even mean you "like" them like that -- it's just a *crush*  I was so proud of Rory for sitting Logan down and admitting these feeilngs.  For me, that was such a great signifier of how strong their relationship is.  I'm usually not a Logan/Rory cheerleader (lately, their relationship has been boring me) but I was pleased with them tonight.  And I was pleased with Logan being so accepting of everything.  Finally, Rory's in a good place.  At least she is...I guess ONE Gilmore has to be stable while the other's life is in complete shambles.  

Don't you find it kind of ironic though...in the preview, Lorelei tells Rory that she and Chris split up in the jeep.  Isn't that where she told Rory about her and Max's split up?  On their way to Harvard.  Mmmmhmm!  Good one Rosenthal.  

So proud of Sookie for being a wonderful voice of reason tonight.  You get my pretty sticks tonight, missy.  

Oh and Lauren Graham's acting tonight was SUPERB.  That last scene was amazing.  


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: khadijahnm on February 13, 2007, 06:35:12 pm
I am posting even though here in the Mountain time zone, this episode is not over.

I am so disgusted with Chris' attitude. Why is Lorelai in the position to be the one to fight for this relationship? Let him go. Good riddance to bad rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay I am going back to finish watching. I will read all the posts when the episode is finished.

Then, I am sure I will have lots more to say.



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Gilmorefan xx on February 13, 2007, 06:37:39 pm
Quote
Quote from: kamakazedeer on Today at 06:29:33 PM
I don't think it was "love at first sight" w/ Rory. It was just a "hey he's cute and makes my palms sweat" kind of thing lol.

yeah i agree... she was just attracted to him, and I think it scared her a little bit, because she loves Logan
That's true. I guess I was just thrown off that Rory thought it was that important that she had to tell Logan.

Quote
I thought Lauren Graham was amazing in this episode! I'm so glad she realized she didn't love Chris, I personally think she really didn't know she didn't love him until now. Like she said, she just wanted to love him.


Lauren Graham was Sensational in this episode!!  But I have to disagree about the Chris issue.  I think Lorelai still does love Chris but knows that he will also be second.  That is something she cannot change but wish she could as she said," your the one I want to want."

No, I agree with what you said. I think I didn't word what I said clearly at all. She does love Chris but Luke will always be first, so the love for Chris can't compare to that of Luke's. -that's what I should've said! Wow, I need to work on my wording skills. :)



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 13, 2007, 06:39:32 pm
Quote
Quote from: kamakazedeer on Today at 06:29:33 PM
I don't think it was "love at first sight" w/ Rory. It was just a "hey he's cute and makes my palms sweat" kind of thing lol.

yeah i agree... she was just attracted to him, and I think it scared her a little bit, because she loves Logan
That's true. I guess I was just thrown off that Rory thought it was that important that she had to tell Logan.

Quote
I thought Lauren Graham was amazing in this episode! I'm so glad she realized she didn't love Chris, I personally think she really didn't know she didn't love him until now. Like she said, she just wanted to love him.


Lauren Graham was Sensational in this episode!!  But I have to disagree about the Chris issue.  I think Lorelai still does love Chris but knows that he will also be second.  That is something she cannot change but wish she could as she said," your the one I want to want."

No, I agree with what you said. I think I didn't word what I said clearly at all. She does love Chris but Luke will always be first. -that's what I should've said! Wow, I need to work on my wording skills. :)



I understand where you were coming from!!  We can now all agree that Luke will always be first!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Gilmorefan xx on February 13, 2007, 06:41:10 pm
Quote
Quote from: Gilmorefan xx on Today at 06:37:17 PM
Quote
Quote from: kamakazedeer on Today at 06:29:33 PM
I don't think it was "love at first sight" w/ Rory. It was just a "hey he's cute and makes my palms sweat" kind of thing lol.

yeah i agree... she was just attracted to him, and I think it scared her a little bit, because she loves Logan
That's true. I guess I was just thrown off that Rory thought it was that important that she had to tell Logan.


Quote
I thought Lauren Graham was amazing in this episode! I'm so glad she realized she didn't love Chris, I personally think she really didn't know she didn't love him until now. Like she said, she just wanted to love him.


Lauren Graham was Sensational in this episode!!  But I have to disagree about the Chris issue.  I think Lorelai still does love Chris but knows that he will also be second.  That is something she cannot change but wish she could as she said," your the one I want to want."

No, I agree with what you said. I think I didn't word what I said clearly at all. She does love Chris but Luke will always be first. -that's what I should've said! Wow, I need to work on my wording skills.




I understand where you were coming from!!  We can now all agree that Luke will always be first!!

And thank god for that!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kamakazedeer on February 13, 2007, 06:42:49 pm
I'm not even sure at the moment if she really does love Chris, in any way. I think she wants to love him. When Sookie said if it weren't for Luke would you be with Chris (paraphrasing), then Lorelai went to talk to Chris and broke it off with him, that to me signaled that she didn't really love Chris at all. I've always been under the impression that Chris was #2 for Lorelai, but this makes me think that Chris was simply a good friend/father of her child that was an easy person to run to and she always knew she could fall back on him. That's not love that's simply convenience and that is what I think Lorelai realized. The only thing Chris offered her was a for sure rebound man, and the whole "perfect family" picture,  both of which are entirely superficial.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 13, 2007, 06:43:46 pm
I loved the moment when Zack was playing my heart will go on!!  I believe Lorelai was thinking wow I still have feelings for Luke.  I cannot hold them back anymore.  I cannot stay in this marriage knowing Chris is second.  I am so glad to see some real great emotion from Lorelai. I feel like so much has been building up inside her and she kept pushing it away and finally she can show how she truly feels and stop convincing herself she is happy.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Fantasy on February 13, 2007, 06:44:14 pm
Only time for one quick thought::

My JJ in me dissapeared this episode. I must say, I am not a flyswatter anymore. (Took me until he left to figure that out though.) I did tear up at the end.

And I Liked when "My Heart Will Go On" was playing. (I can play that on the clarinet.  ::)) And it was cheesy. But still...I like Titanic too. "I'll never let go Jack." And then she drops him into the depths of the ocean. (Kidding. I know that was a metaphorical statement.)

And I ADORE LOGAN. :hearts: :smitten: :smitten: :hearts:


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kamakazedeer on February 13, 2007, 06:45:52 pm
I loved the moment when Zack was playing my heart will go on!! I believe Lorelai was thinking wow I still have feelings for Luke. I cannot hold them back anymore. I cannot stay in this marriage knowing Chris is second. I am so glad to see some real great emotion from Lorelai. I feel like so much has been building up inside her and she kept pushing it away and finally she can show how she truly feels and stop convincing herself she is happy.

Am I the only person who found the "My Heart Will Go On" pan to Lorelai realizing her failed marriage - scene incredibly corny. Please for the love of Gilmore Girls do not associate such a cheesy song with Lorelai's epiphany!!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Devilina07 on February 13, 2007, 06:46:03 pm
I'm not even sure at the moment if she really does love Chris, in any way. I think she wants to love him. When Sookie said if it weren't for Luke would you be with Chris (paraphrasing), then Lorelai went to talk to Chris and broke it off with him, that to me signaled that she didn't really love Chris at all. I've always been under the impression that Chris was #2 for Lorelai, but this makes me think that Chris was simply a good friend/father of her child that was an easy person to run to and she always knew she could fall back on him. That's not love that's simply convenience and that is what I think Lorelai realized. The only thing Chris offered her was a for sure rebound man, and the whole "perfect family" picture,  both of which are entirely superficial.
I think she did love Christopher but those feelings weren't strong enough for her to make things work out.  I think it took all of this, the marriage, the fights, avoiding Luke, to realize that despite her feelings for Chris, she had moved on and she needed more than he could give.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: rainbow on February 13, 2007, 06:47:34 pm
I think (hope) that the epiphany was brought on by much, much more than the song... during all the planning for Chin-Chin's funeral she asserted that she had a lot on her mind besides that ceremony...


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: GG602 on February 13, 2007, 06:48:04 pm
I think the acting in this episode (particularly Lauren and David) was the best so far this season.  I like how their argument in the begining when they are in the Dragonfly room was not a typical TV argument, where things that should be said are left out.  Chris explained that his cell phone was off and that's why he didn't come to the hospital.  Lorelai explained why Luke was there and also, she later defended writing the character reference.  I absolutely detest when there is dramatic irony in relationship drama.  Why can't people always just tell eachother the whole story?  

Anyway, the end was sad.  When Lorelai was telling Chris that she wished she wanted to be with him, I think she convinced me that I wish I wanted her to be with him.  It's so sad that they did have a relationship 20 years ago, and then they had a baby, parted ways, wound up back together, but still didn't make it through a marriage.  Unfortunately, when you hold on to feelings from when you were just a child, and try to act on them when you are 40, things don't work out so smoothly.  I also feel bad for GiGi.  Lorelai would have been a great step-mother for her and a good role model.  She would have grown up to be like Rory.  She woud have been really lucky to have Lorelai and Rory in her life.  Oh well, at least she is rich.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Gilmorefan xx on February 13, 2007, 06:48:42 pm
Quote
Insert Quote
Quote from: trickyiu on Today at 06:43:24 PM
I loved the moment when Zack was playing my heart will go on!! I believe Lorelai was thinking wow I still have feelings for Luke. I cannot hold them back anymore. I cannot stay in this marriage knowing Chris is second. I am so glad to see some real great emotion from Lorelai. I feel like so much has been building up inside her and she kept pushing it away and finally she can show how she truly feels and stop convincing herself she is happy.


Am I the only person who found the "My Heart Will Go On" pan to Lorelai realizing her failed marriage - scene incredibly corny. Please for the love of Gilmore Girls do not associate such a cheesy song with Lorelai's epiphany!!!
haha. I'm sorry but I did like that song for that moment. I think it was sort of intended to be a little corny. Like Zach not wanting to play it and all. It sort of lightened the mood. It kind of acted as a funny/corny song but still something Lorelai could relate to a little. But maybe my opinion is just based on the fact that I loved Titanic? :]


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Devilina07 on February 13, 2007, 06:49:05 pm
I think (hope) that the epiphany was brought on by much, much more than the song... during all the planning for Chin-Chin's funeral she asserted that she had a lot on her mind besides that ceremony...
Amen.  This realization came after a long day of running around.  It wasn't until she was alone with her thoughts that they became fully realized.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kamakazedeer on February 13, 2007, 06:50:08 pm
I think (hope) that the epiphany was brought on by much, much more than the song... during all the planning for Chin-Chin's funeral she asserted that she had a lot on her mind besides that ceremony...

Oh I don't think it was brought on by the song. It just seemed really corny to me to have that song playing and pan to a shot of Lorelai thinking/mulling things over, and then cut to her and Christopher. It really made it seem like the song was impacting her in some way, which I found disturbing.

Sorry Titanic lovers but after a full year of that song (1998) I don't know if I can deal with it much more.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 13, 2007, 06:50:31 pm
I loved the moment when Zack was playing my heart will go on!! I believe Lorelai was thinking wow I still have feelings for Luke. I cannot hold them back anymore. I cannot stay in this marriage knowing Chris is second. I am so glad to see some real great emotion from Lorelai. I feel like so much has been building up inside her and she kept pushing it away and finally she can show how she truly feels and stop convincing herself she is happy.

Am I the only person who found the "My Heart Will Go On" pan to Lorelai realizing her failed marriage - scene incredibly corny. Please for the love of Gilmore Girls do not associate such a cheesy song with Lorelai's epiphany!!!

I did find it the song corny but I loved the moment and the look of Lorelai's face.  You could really see the emotion she was feeling. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: snicklefritz on February 13, 2007, 06:51:46 pm
I think (hope) that the epiphany was brought on by much, much more than the song... during all the planning for Chin-Chin's funeral she asserted that she had a lot on her mind besides that ceremony...
Yes i agree, I think that the several conversations with christopher before that were part of it too


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Devilina07 on February 13, 2007, 06:52:48 pm
I also feel bad for GiGi.  Lorelai would have been a great step-mother for her and a good role model.  She would have grown up to be like Rory.  She woud have been really lucky to have Lorelai and Rory in her life.  Oh well, at least she is rich.
Just like Lorelai could never stop being friends with Luke, I think that even though Lorelai and Christopher broke up, they will continue to be friends.  Gigi will have her step-mom to look up to.  I doubt that all of this severs their relationship.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kamakazedeer on February 13, 2007, 06:53:46 pm
I seem to have caused some kind of frenzy over the song. Sorry!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: harvestmoon52 on February 13, 2007, 06:54:02 pm
It wasn't corny at all. I believe the song was there to convey Lorelai's feeling at the moment- and it was quite a strong song. You could just see that she was trying to be strong in her most horrible time.

And she actually waved at Luke! Little, by little, they are getting back to the way they were. I think next episode, she will actually go into the diner.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: radical618 on February 13, 2007, 06:54:36 pm
I think it was Sookie's "But" comment that kinda kicked Lor in her butt. I think after that comment she realized what she really wanted. She always knew it, she just needed that little push.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 13, 2007, 06:55:18 pm
I seem to have caused some kind of frenzy over the song. Sorry!!

Ya it seems I have to!!  :)  I never meant to relate the song to Lorelai's epiphany.  Just liked the moment.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Devilina07 on February 13, 2007, 06:57:16 pm
I seem to have caused some kind of frenzy over the song. Sorry!!
Don't apologize.  I hate the song too.  But I feel like it had less to do with the realization and more to do with a continuing part of the funeral.  As I said before, she finally got a moment to herself and it just so happened to be when the song was playing.

I also want to say how happy I am that Alexis no longer has the bangs.  I really didn't like them and I'm glad that her hair is growing out.  She looks much better without them.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 13, 2007, 06:59:20 pm
I think it was Sookie's "But" comment that kinda kicked Lor in her butt. I think after that comment she realized what she really wanted. She always knew it, she just needed that little push.

Great point. I think Sookie being the friend she is was trying to support Lorelai and her marriage to Chris.  She just wants her best friend to be happy.  But this comment was great.  How could Lorelai cute Luke out of her life.  Thanks Sookie for making Lor realize things!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kamakazedeer on February 13, 2007, 07:00:09 pm
I'll think about it like that from now on, it will be less hurtful to me (that is how much I despise that song).

Devilina07, I totally agree with you about the bangs. She has such a little face, it looked hidden behind the bangs.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Canuck on February 13, 2007, 07:09:52 pm
CANADIAN viewing audio problems? Did any Canadians who watch the show on Global experience audio troubles? The audio kept going on and off every 2 seconds. I am irate! Expletive!   >:( 

x


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovesToRead on February 13, 2007, 07:20:52 pm
Well whatever you think about Christopher, he was AMAZING at the end of this episode.  Lorelai was sitting there breaking his heart and not only did he not throw a fit, he sat there and comforted her.  That shows character in my opinion.

As far as the funeral goes, I thought it was very sweet of Lorelai and Sookie to suck it up and give that to Michel (without laughing).  I'm really glad that they pulled it off in end.  And Zach playing Celine Dion (even though it had to be killing him) was really really sweet.

And it was an interesting episode for Rory and Logan.  I was annoyed with the whole TA thing but I'm trying not to be worried.  And I was really glad that she came clean with Logan.  And he's right about the whole crush thing.  I've had crushes on other guys when I've had a boyfriend but that didn't mean I was going to do anything about it.  And I really liked their whole conversation about belonging to each other.  Very sweet.

All in all, excellent episode.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: khadijahnm on February 13, 2007, 07:32:57 pm
Okay I desperately need some information.

The local CW station here in the mountain time zone went fuzzy during the last scene with Chris and Lorelai. I miissed it!! I cannot believe it. Can someone tell me a synopsis of what happened?

I am anxiously waiting for Gilmorefan.com to post tonight's episode clips so that I can see what I missed. Does anyone know how long it takes for that site to post an episode's clips?

Otherwise, I was happy that Sookie's words and the song at the memorial woke Lorelai up to the feelings she has been repressing since she got back together with Mr. Hayden.

I was thinking mid-episode that the writers played an awful trick on us diehard GG fans, that the JJ nightmare was not going to end.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 13, 2007, 07:34:31 pm
Oh, please, it's not a bad song, it's just annoying when Celine Dion sings it. The acoustic version was really nice, and really close to the moment: She had to realize her heart wouldn't stop beating if she let Chris go before she could face the truth about her decision to marry him.

All I can say for Christopher is, man! The further the fall from grace the more triumphant the redemption! Once again, Christopher is the only man who knows her well enough to truly understand the mistakes she makes leading with her heart. And he understands her heart well enough to admit she'll never be happy with him and set her free. He's come a long way from the Christopher who couldn't stay in the conversation long enough to make sense of why he felt bad. Or the Christopher who would have kept it to himself and lived the fantasy as long as she would let him. She was ready to give up Luke for him, and he didn't let it get that far. David Sutcliffe was amazing in this scene, really hard to forget.

Lorelai definitely snapped here. "Part of me wasn't even surprised." Ouch. But the way she came around and took his feeling that he was "still asking" at face value says she was venting. She really thought she could be someone else for him until he made her face the truth. She looked so sad when she finally realized that she had said 'yes' too late.

Oh, and BTW, of course Rory is in Lorelai's speed-dial, Lorelai loves her speed dial. She even programmed Luke's for him when they got back together after "the breakup" (so he was able to reach her in a hurry when Emily appeared  to Lecture Luke about Lorelai not being at Friday Night Dinner.) Whew, that was bugging me!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: hello_dolly on February 13, 2007, 07:42:42 pm
I. Am. Done.

I just can't be a Lorelai apologist any longer. I just can't. And I can't for the life of me understand why all this time almost everyone on this forum has crucified Christopher, as if Lorelai has no share of the blame in their entire situation. Christopher may have been naive enough to believe that he could fast forward to a happily ever after with Lorelai, but she is the one who recklessly went along with his infantile dream. She has been incredibly selfish. She "wanted to want him", and she wanted to be happy, to forget Luke, to pop her and Chris's relationship in the microwave and have an instant TV dinner marriage. She is a grown woman. However stunted her emotional growth was because of her teenage pregnancy, she should have known better. I refuse to continue making excuses for this woman.

I cannot help but think that this show has always been written to portray men as practically expendable commodities. I know it is just a TV show, but it really bothers me. It is just plain wrong.

"Farewell, My Pet" was a fitting title.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 13, 2007, 07:49:27 pm
I can take or leave Titanic, but I like the song.  Although without the lyrics and being played on an acoustic guitar (or whatever) I wouldn't have recognized it without being told.  And, I still didn't, even after being told.

Not surprising that I completely disagree with some people here.  So what else is new.  Although I'm shocked beyond belief that there are actually people who felt Christopher wasn't horrible and aren't saying he's not moving out fast enough.  But, I'm glad they didn't paint it as Christopher was single handedly responsible for them getting together.  If he pushed, she willingly jumped.  But, I think unless you're looking for utter perfection, up to the character reference, Christopher has been a fine husband.  And, since Lorelai admitted that there are feelings there for Luke, I don't see how Christopher's jealousy could possibly be irrational.  Irrational is when there's no basis, but since there are feelings, there was a basis.  Not sure if anyone here said irrational (after awhile I have to skim to preserve my sanity) but Lorelai did.  And, I know this will give me a lot of responses educating me to the further wrongs, but I was right.  He did have his phone turned off.  And, he went to his mother's.

I'm fine with Rory saying she was on Lorelai's side because she felt Lorelai was right.  I'm not big on unconditional loyalty.  I'm on your side no matter what.  I would hope that would mean that she would be there and supportive of Lorelai, but if she had felt Lorelai was wrong, she'd acknowledge that, too.  

Rory's crush wasn't that big a deal (and she's not going to have anything more later in the semester.  Lalala, I can't hear you).  And, I agree that her crush was more in the line of "Ooh, he's cute."  Not, "Ooh, I want to have TA babies with him."  And, yes, it is possible to immediately find someone attractive.  And, that's how it struck me.  She wasn't responding to him as a person.  It was a physical thing, similar to if she had simply seen him in a magazine.  And, trust me.  Googling isn't one of the seven deadly sins.  You can google a guy and remain completely faithful and in love with your boyfriend.  And, it's lovely that Logan was understanding.  Also that he felt bad that she thought the crush was so horrible (I wouldn't even call it a crush) because he had been jealous of Marty.

One thing I don't get.  Why are Rory and Paris going through all these things?  Rory exploring her options is one thing, but Paris was going to medical school.  Wasn't she taking pre-med?  And, Paris is so type A, anal retentive, why would she even be thinking of other directions or options?  Realistically, Paris should not be bellydancing, she should be making charts for the best medical school and going crazy about that.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Burtnnator07 on February 13, 2007, 07:59:34 pm
I. Am. Done.

I just can't be a Lorelai apologist any longer. I just can't. And I can't for the life of me understand why all this time almost everyone on this forum has crucified Christopher, as if Lorelai has no share of the blame in their entire situation. Christopher may have been naive enough to believe that he could fast forward to a happily ever after with Lorelai, but she is the one who recklessly went along with his infantile dream. She has been incredibly selfish. She "wanted to want him", and she wanted to be happy, to forget Luke, to pop her and Chris's relationship in the microwave and have an instant TV dinner marriage. She is a grown woman. However stunted her emotional growth was because of her teenage pregnancy, she should have known better. I refuse to continue making excuses for this woman.

I cannot help but think that this show has always been written to portray men as practically expendable commodities. I know it is just a TV show, but it really bothers me. It is just plain wrong.

"Farewell, My Pet" was a fitting title.

I felt like the at the end of the episode, Lorelai was so upset because she realized the blame was mostly hers. She's held off Christopher's proposals before, she knows she could have done it again, but she "jumped." It was a very large mistake, but that is what it was, a mistake. She didn't date and marry Christopher for purely selfish reasons. She said something about him always being in the back of her mind or something to that effect. She believed it could work and that the love she had for him would be enough. It wasn't, but I'm not sure Lorelai could have known that without trying.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: zeddie on February 13, 2007, 08:02:31 pm

I was TICKED OFF that Rory is having the hots for her teacher and like FANTASIZING ABOUT HIM (oh, and Googling him)
Fantasizing is a strong word.  She said she giggled and recommended a book.  Then Googled him.  That is NOT fantasizing.

Well, if you want to argue over one word, let me get my brontesaurous out...

I have to disagree. I don't know if you are male or female, but a girl that age, taking the time to Google a guy no doubt had a quick thought about him- that is a fantasy of sorts, because it did NOT actually happen. The fantasy was implied. It does NOT have to involve being taken and slaked, you know - just a little thought of maybe the two of them talking, or meeting again.  Simple stuff.  And Fantasizing is not such a strong word. TREASON, MURDER - RAPACIOUS - now THERE are some strong words for you.  Whore. Tramp. Lynch. Cyanide Poisoning.  there are LOTS stronger words and images that can easily inflame, fantasizing does not qualify, not for me.  Just pointing that out.  ;D  I am a little - sensative about words too, you know. I'd say, very sensative.  And besides, i know i am right - i was that age once, and i remember how it was when you looked at a man like that and he struck you like that.  I would be surprised if there is NOT more about this story line.  Very surprised.  She wants him, if i am reading her acting correctly. She probably will not act on it, but... If there is NOTHING more on it, then the writers were playing with us.  That is my opinion, just an opinion, but a strong one.

This is an adult line, so.. i should add - if Rory is not going to keep flirting with this man, well then, it is a red herring - some ploy to advance the Rory / Logan relationship - and that's cool - but actually i almost found it - clumsy or too neat - not sure which.  Their conversation about it - was - somehow odd for me. If it had been ME - i would not have told him, because i know that is all completely natural.  You can stil find others interesting when you are in love, but when you are solid in love, these events can be UNbothersome too.  And the way she led up to it was weird. I could conclude that she had repressed um - whichyoumaycallit feelings - but then, she is living with Logan and i have not heard that she has any "trouble" in that area - so she is obviously - um - fluid in these things.  (I am trying to be delicate while being clear too. Hard to do here....   )  So, if Rory is a woman of the world, why is she suddenly so clumsy about getting piqued over a new guy?  Something did not fit together for me on that one.  Oh well, i have other problems, i won't lose any sleep over it...


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: JLeigh2182 on February 13, 2007, 08:03:25 pm
Ok...time for me to throw in my 2 cents...

First of all...how wonderful to see 'Producer - Lauren Graham' at the beginning again!  I love that she's been able to take a role in the production aspect of 'Gilmore Girls'.  She truly is a remarkably talented woman and I think her involvement can only benefit the show.

So I tend to be a bit of a spoiler-guru so I already had some idea as to what this episode was going to focus around, but it was done way better than I would have imagined (and I don't say that lightly).  I think the writing was very well for this episode and I liked the overall flow.  It was killing me that I didn't know what exactly was happening with Lorelai and Christopher until like last 30 seconds of the episode.  I was lierally on the edge of my seat for the entire episode.  I loved that they kept us waiting and curious, but not bored.  I was intrigued by Rory's storyline (Tucker's nice to look at!) and of course poor Chin Chin's funeral and there were some great Lorelai/Sookie moments, which I always love.

So just a few quick things before I dissect the storylines.  I thought Lauren Graham, David Sutcliffe and Yanic Truesdale were fabulous in this episode.  Their acting was spot-on.  I loved the tension and sadness that Michel was experiencing over Chin Chin.  I mean, in season 4 he called them his children and said that if it had been possible to birth them he would have.  If that's not love, I don't know what is (maybe slight insanity, but whatever).  And while I'm not a Christopher fan, I've always respected him on some level and tonight was remided why.  As excited as I was to see him go, his acting was perfect.  I found myself feeling sorry for him and just sad that too people who obviously care about each other and have such a storied past were unable to make things work.  Kudus to you, David Sutcliffe, for making me feel sorry for Christopher.  That's quite the feat.  And oh yeah...I want to bring out my Emmy-Nomination Stick and tap Lauren Graham with it because she deserves it.  And also...I was totally bummed that we saw Luke for all of 2 seconds.  I think that was the first episode he didn't have any dialogue at all in (correct me if I'm wrong).

Ok...so I've been ready for the Lorelai/Christopher break-up since they got married and I think it was handled extremely well.  I was getting tired of seeing Chris act like a whiney, immature teenager when it came to his relationship.  It only made me dislike him more.  I was glad that he admitted to "using" Lorelai and taking advantage of the timing and her vulnerable state.  I didn't like hearing his excuses to why he didn't answer his phone or stay longer at the hospital but I'm glad he at least refrained from yelling (for the most part) and didn't put all the blame on Lorelai.  I thought that was pretty admirable.  I'm also glad that Lorelai decided against taking her own advice to completely cut Luke out of her life (I could almost hear all the Java Junkies jaws dropping) and lightly admitting that there's still something there with Luke.  I think she's been kind of hesitant to question any feelings she has for Luke just because she's probably wondering if he's ever going to forgive her.  I mean, I think he has on some levels, but is she wondering if they're ever going to be able to have a romantic relationship again?  Stay tuned, Java Junkies...stay tuned.

The whole Rory storyline kind of bothered me.  Rory's never been one to act all flushed/giddy over a guy and I found it rather unsettling to find her acting like a 12-year-old when she's nearly double that age.  I did like that she was honest with Logan about her crush on Tucker (perhaps taking note from her mother's mistakes in that department?) and liked his responce.  Based on his past track record, if he would have even been slightly annoyed with her, I would have written him off.  In the words of Justin Timberlake..."what goes around, goes around, goes around comes all the way back around".

I found Michel's funeral storyline rather endearing.  Anyone who's ever lost a pet knows how much that hurts and I found his yelling at Lorelai about the whole "timing" of Chin Chin's death very appropriate.  I know she's hurting too, but she deserved to be scolded.  Plus, I love apologetic Lorelai.

If you've made it this far...bless you.  I have a few more moments that stood out, but I'm gonna post those separately so I don't take any more space in this particular post.  Back in a few.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 13, 2007, 08:10:17 pm
Quote
The whole Rory storyline kind of bothered me.  Rory's never been one to act all flushed/giddy over a guy and I found it rather unsettling to find her acting like a 12-year-old when she's nearly double that age.

I don't know.  Minus the giggling, I would say she did a fair bit of the flushed/flustered thing back when Dean was just "the new guy" in the first episodes of the series.

Am I the only person who kept trying to read all the charts and posterboards Paris had set up?  Part of me was really into Rory and Logan's conversation and part of me wished I could get a better view of what was written.  I'm like that any time I see words.  I have to know what they say.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovesToRead on February 13, 2007, 08:28:07 pm
So, if Rory is a woman of the world, why is she suddenly so clumsy about getting piqued over a new guy?  Something did not fit together for me on that one.  Oh well, i have other problems, i won't lose any sleep over it...

I think she was just shocked.  She came to class prepared not to like it since her grandfather wasn't teaching it and walks right into an attractive TA (not literally of course).  It threw her off.  As for her acting wierd later, I think it was partly her just not knowing how to act around him and partly the fact that she had a crush on him.  Just because she's slept with Logan and Dean doesn't mean that she's all of a sudden an expert on how to deal with crushes (especially when she has a boyfriend). 

I've googled (or facebooked) people I think are attractive without it leading anywhere.  I just don't think (hope!!!) it's that big of a deal.  Maybe I'm underreacting but I don't think so.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: JLeigh2182 on February 13, 2007, 08:35:27 pm
A few foreshaddowing moments in the episode that grabbed my attention...

Reference Numero Uno - Part of the conversation that took place when Rory, Lorelai, Richard & Emily were walking through the hospital hallway discussing whether or not Rory should return to Yale that day...

Lorelai: ...Plus, we already decided...
Rory: Well, yeah, but haven't you ever 'already decided something' and then changed your mind?

This immediately made me think of Lorelai & Christopher's marraige.  Perhaps informing us that Lorelai has changed her mind?

Reference Numero Dos - All of the 'Heart' song titles that Lorelai read when she, Michel & Zack were discussing music choices for the funeral in Sophie's.  The titles of the songs were:

My Heart Belongs to Daddy.
My Heart Belongs to Me.
My Heart Belongs to You.
My Heart Can't Make Up Its Mind.
My Heart Is Crying For You.
My Heart Is Waiting.
My Heart Stood Still.
My Heart Will Go On.

Does anyone else think these song titles loosely represent Lorelai's relationships?  First her heart belonged to "daddy" (aka, Christopher)...then she was on her own raising Rory so her heart was hers...then her heart belonged to Luke...then her heart couldn't make up its mind because she was torn up over her and Luke's situation...then her heart was crying out to Luke to accept her ultimatium...then she married Christopher and her heart was waiting, hoping that maybe, maybe she could make her marraige with Christopher work...then her heart stood still because she didn't know what she wanted anymore...and finally her heart will go on to figure out where exactly she's supposed to be (or who she's supposed to be with).

Obviously that translation is fairly rough (not taking into account Max, Jason, etc.) but as she read those song titles, all I could think of was "hey...that's Lorelai."

Just some thoughts.  Anyone else have any opionions?  Did anything else stand out to anyone?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: zeddie on February 13, 2007, 08:35:34 pm
I am liking this discussion about Rory.  Lots of interesting and differing opinions.

SIDEBAR - BEYOND EPPISODE.  skip if you like...
 I was just thinking about the word FANTASY again.  Women are GREAT fantasizers - women are the ones with the fantastic internal lives, if you ask me. "They" say that women are in touch with a greater range of emotions and use like 4 times as many words as men do.  Indeed, i think the windiest posts are probably from the females here  ;D .

Sure, some guys are right up there too.  I was about to turn in, but i was haunted by this fantasy issue.  There was admission of a CRUSH. Question:  Can a woman (girl) have a bona fide CRUSH on a man (boy) that does not involve some fantasy (G rated or R rated - either one)?  I mean, isn't that the gloriously giddy goodness of being a GIRL?  Sure it is - we love to fantasize.  Hey, what about Prince Charming and the White Knight on the White Horse and all that crap?  Didn't young girls invent this type of fantasy (with the help of some sadistic authors) ?  I am throwing this out for some batting practice.

I am beyond some spittin' match with a fellow poster.  No, this isn't what i am doing.  I have moved into a quandry over this issue.  Will a woman ever be 100% practical and IN THE MOMENT when she has a crush on a man?  And what about a MAN?  How is it for a man?  Will he also fantasize about running into her at a baseball game, OR will he ONLY think and feel WHEN SHE IS WITH HIM?  Hmm.  This could be an interesting little side debate.  Ok, if there are any taker - GO - or suggest where to move this.  I have to turn in maybe though.  I am debating whether to find second wind, OR get sleep becuase TOMORROW MORNING EARLY i have to REMOVE SNOW from my property.  >:( :santa: :wall: :cloud: :sleepy:


Goodnight all.

JLEIGH2182 - NICE.
  I didn't really hear all those - i was in transit between rooms, but i like your thinkin.  I agree it was about Lorelai somehow.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: JLeigh2182 on February 13, 2007, 08:41:05 pm
JLEIGH2182 - NICE. [/b]  I didn't really hear all those - i was in transit between rooms, but i like your thinkin.  I agree it was about Lorelai somehow.

Yeah...I'm being a bit of loser tonight because I'm snowed/iced in and am suffering from a major case of boredom.  I usually don't read as much into the episodes as I did tonight.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 13, 2007, 08:47:33 pm
To me, the term "crush" comes down to semantics.  What I saw didn't fit my definition of a crush.  Of course, we didn't see Rory every second from the time she laid eyes on the TA to when she saw Logan, but my guess is we got a full account of what happened.  She thought he was cute, she giggled when she saw him in the book store, and she googled him.  Doesn't even take two seconds for me to think of someone I've found cute, (although I don't do giggling, for the most part) and googled.  And, I wouldn't call that a crush.  And, even googling, I never imagined anything between us.  It was no more than, "hey, that's an attractive guy, lets find out some more about him."  Crush suggests something a bit more intense to me than what I saw presented in the episode.

Although, I have to say, I've personally never fantasized about the knight in shining armour.  My fantasies run more to the shy genius geek in glasses (no, not the TA - who only fits the glasses part - I think).  And, if he can tap dance, that's an added bonus.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 13, 2007, 08:53:23 pm
Whatever her feelings, Rory clearly decided to err on the side of it being important. The words "false alarm" spring to mind as a depth meter for her distraction, though. I don't mind, we got to see Logan being "around" around, and he got to apologize in person for the whole 'outing' while we witnessed the consequences. Apparently, he will not spook if she kicks him with a spur!

On a side note, it's kind of an object lesson in controlling yourself around your crush. Sometimes it's good to go for it, but other times, waiting it out can seriously pay off. Marty should have figured that out sooner. And  Dean. And Jess. And Rory. Hmm, detecting a theme...


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: GilmoreFanatic203 on February 13, 2007, 09:04:12 pm
ok here are my thoughts on our main characters of the night...

Rory~ Really dealing with her first crush. Yes, we did see the blubbering side in season 1 epi 1, but she hadn't had a bf yet! This was an all out crush. Before, it was the men always coming to her and being all google eyed and what not for her...the tables turned and it was cute. I love how she immediately told Logan. it means that she is really comfortable with him...enough to talk about something as small but potentially relationship threatening.


Logan~Aww for not waiting until Sunday or Saturday...whichever it was! I'm happy to see that he's coming to see her on his own. really being a Boyfriend...something he was so afraid he could never be. I really hope things go all the way with them.


Lorelai~WOW! She finally tapped into her emotions and saw the real her. What she really wanted and needed....LUKE. I'm glad that she laid it all out for Chris and finally admitted her feelings....not just to him but to herself. I think by voicing them all to him...she realized it was all true. Way to step up to the plate on Planning a Doggie funeral too.


Chris~ I'm not a Chris fan but I give him props for finally realizing that he pushed Lorelai into everything. It takes a man to admit mistakes and I am glad he finally did. I'm also glad that he's bowing out of this win a respectable way. Did you get the feeling that the director's had been reading all of the things said about the relationship? What he's said is what many have voiced on the ORG. It was a little eerie.


Michel~ A rare time where we see a sense of emotion in this man!I feel bad that he lost his baby, but it's scarey when we only really see heart felt emotions for his dogs. Then, Michel is a very strange man to begin with.

Sookie~ Finally became that voice of reason!! I loved that it was her that was able to open Lorelai's eyes. A true friend indeed..

I feel sure that I missed someone and if I did.....oh well, I'm tired and thirsty!!! :)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: GG602 on February 13, 2007, 09:05:50 pm

One thing I don't get.  Why are Rory and Paris going through all these things?  Rory exploring her options is one thing, but Paris was going to medical school.  Wasn't she taking pre-med?  And, Paris is so type A, anal retentive, why would she even be thinking of other directions or options?  Realistically, Paris should not be bellydancing, she should be making charts for the best medical school and going crazy about that.

I don't think Paris was doing all of those things to explore her options in life.  I think she was just trying to systematically get the full college experience, by participating in as many activities as she possibly could.  And the academic things, like fixing eachother's resumes, were just scheduled amongst other things.  I actually think that this system of doing as much as she can before she graduates is typical of Paris.  She is very driven and focused, but she also knows that a good college experience is a well rounded one.  I think this storyline is a nice throwback to when her mom made her attend the parties and dances in Chilton, and also when they first started Yale and she made it a point to go to the Harvard/Yale game.  Even though she didn't stay, she took a picture as if they won and as if they lost.  I don't think Paris is being derailed from her goal(s).  She is just trying to pack in as much experience in as many things as she can, so she can say that she did stuff in college besides keep her head in her books.  And the way she has everything scheduled is so: What is the point? But also, very smart and very Paris.  And the multiple resume thing; I don't think Paris thought she would want to do any of those other things, but before you become a doctor, you need to pay bills somehow.  Paris would know that having an undergrad degree doesn't guarantee a good job, and she might have to do random things.  So she is preparing for every type of thing that she might have to do.  


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 13, 2007, 09:11:21 pm
Lane didn't look to happy at the memorial. Who were those guys sitting on either side of her? For some reason I'm insanely curious.

JLeigh2182, I think you pretty much nailed the Heart thing, if there's something to it.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: september on February 13, 2007, 09:19:44 pm
hey! are they really broke up?! wow! that was fast ... I mean come on! I like lor and chris together not I dont like luke but ... ah! sad ending for this epi.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: GG3 on February 13, 2007, 09:21:15 pm
The break up was very sad.  Thru all 7 seasons we have always seen the connection between L/C -  I can completely understand Lorelai.  Chris was lorelai's "fall back guy".  Think about it - they were teenage sweethearts!  That  is intense!  You never forget that guy!  He was someone that she knew loved her, he was easy...she always knew he would be there if she wanted him. there has been a lot of talk about Lorelai thinking aobut Luke in this episode.  I dissagree- I think she is just very sad that she could not make it work with Chris.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 13, 2007, 09:23:38 pm
Also, it took days to accomplish. They talked, got angry, took a breather, talked, got desperate, took a breather, talked and came to the decision to part company together. No one on the show has ever broken up like that before.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Ripley on February 13, 2007, 09:37:22 pm
Quote
Does anyone else think these song titles loosely represent Lorelai's relationships?

JLeigh2182: I didn't even think about that!  I just put it off as Lorelai blabbering again like the whole monkey monkey underpants thing.   ;D

I'm glad that Lorelai is now true to herself about her feelings.  It'd do her good in the future even if she doesn't end up with Luke, not that I don't want them to end up together.  She realized that she can't force her feelings even if she really wanted to.  Sookie was awesome in this episode, she's always awesome in my opinion.  She asked the most important question, would Lorelai still choose Christopher if Luke was not in the picture, and that made Lorelai really think about her motives.

I liked this episode, it feels more like GG than the earlier episodes in this season.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: hello_dolly on February 13, 2007, 09:49:51 pm
I. Am. Done.

I just can't be a Lorelai apologist any longer. I just can't. And I can't for the life of me understand why all this time almost everyone on this forum has crucified Christopher, as if Lorelai has no share of the blame in their entire situation. Christopher may have been naive enough to believe that he could fast forward to a happily ever after with Lorelai, but she is the one who recklessly went along with his infantile dream. She has been incredibly selfish. She "wanted to want him", and she wanted to be happy, to forget Luke, to pop her and Chris's relationship in the microwave and have an instant TV dinner marriage. She is a grown woman. However stunted her emotional growth was because of her teenage pregnancy, she should have known better. I refuse to continue making excuses for this woman.

I cannot help but think that this show has always been written to portray men as practically expendable commodities. I know it is just a TV show, but it really bothers me. It is just plain wrong.

"Farewell, My Pet" was a fitting title.

I felt like the at the end of the episode, Lorelai was so upset because she realized the blame was mostly hers. She's held off Christopher's proposals before, she knows she could have done it again, but she "jumped." It was a very large mistake, but that is what it was, a mistake. She didn't date and marry Christopher for purely selfish reasons. She said something about him always being in the back of her mind or something to that effect. She believed it could work and that the love she had for him would be enough. It wasn't, but I'm not sure Lorelai could have known that without trying.

I definitely see what you're saying, and I do think that is the trail of thought the writers expected us to have. But when I personally assess the situation I just see a selfish woman who used Christopher to distract herself from a painful time in her life. Yes, he was always "in the back of her mind." And someone else mentioned he was a "fall back." Does that really paint any more an attractive picture of Lorelai's actions? Do either of those phrases or labels make how she handled the situation seem acceptable? Absolutely not.

I must admit that I am looking at this from a skewed point of view. I have gone through some pretty awful things when it comes to men. I have yet to find someone who has treated me with the kind of love and respect that I feel any decent woman deserves. And when I see examples of someone not entirely appreciating what a gift that is, or being careless with someone's heart like that, I am indignant. Fictional character or not.

And it really bothers me how people gloss over Lorelai's actions like she can do no wrong.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Mara on February 13, 2007, 11:26:55 pm
Quote
Quote from: Burtnnator07 on Today at 07:59:12 PM
Quote from: hello_dolly on Today at 07:42:20 PM
I. Am. Done.

I just can't be a Lorelai apologist any longer. I just can't. And I can't for the life of me understand why all this time almost everyone on this forum has crucified Christopher, as if Lorelai has no share of the blame in their entire situation. Christopher may have been naive enough to believe that he could fast forward to a happily ever after with Lorelai, but she is the one who recklessly went along with his infantile dream. She has been incredibly selfish. She "wanted to want him", and she wanted to be happy, to forget Luke, to pop her and Chris's relationship in the microwave and have an instant TV dinner marriage. She is a grown woman. However stunted her emotional growth was because of her teenage pregnancy, she should have known better. I refuse to continue making excuses for this woman.

I cannot help but think that this show has always been written to portray men as practically expendable commodities. I know it is just a TV show, but it really bothers me. It is just plain wrong.

"Farewell, My Pet" was a fitting title.


I felt like the at the end of the episode, Lorelai was so upset because she realized the blame was mostly hers. She's held off Christopher's proposals before, she knows she could have done it again, but she "jumped." It was a very large mistake, but that is what it was, a mistake. She didn't date and marry Christopher for purely selfish reasons. She said something about him always being in the back of her mind or something to that effect. She believed it could work and that the love she had for him would be enough. It wasn't, but I'm not sure Lorelai could have known that without trying.


I definitely see what you're saying, and I do think that is the trail of thought the writers expected us to have. But when I personally assess the situation I just see a selfish woman who used Christopher to distract herself from a painful time in her life. Yes, he was always "in the back of her mind." And someone else mentioned he was a "fall back." Does that really paint any more an attractive picture of Lorelai's actions? Do either of those phrases or labels make how she handled the situation seem acceptable? Absolutely not.

I must admit that I am looking at this from a skewed point of view. I have gone through some pretty awful things when it comes to men. I have yet to find someone who has treated me with the kind of love and respect that I feel any decent woman deserves. And when I see examples of someone not entirely appreciating what a gift that is, or being careless with someone's heart like that, I am indignant. Fictional character or not.

And it really bothers me how people gloss over Lorelai's actions like she can do no wrong.

hello_dolly I completly agree with you. I like Chris and Lorelai together, but we all can't get what we want, but the way she treated him was ... just beneath her and beneath Christopher. It was her who ran to Chris that night Luke said that he didn't want to get married now, she used him ... maybe to hurt Luke. Her actions were and are disgraceful for a Lorlelai Gilmore as we have gotten to know her and love her. Right from season 6 where the things with Luke got messy, she started to change to a very different person .. she treated Chris bad ... who, made only the mistake to push the fast forward button in their relationship because he is a fool in love, that's not a crime, that's actually really sweet (and a little stupid), Luke ... I don't like him, at all, I think he could have handeld the April - thing different and give Lorelai a little more space with his daugther to get to know her, but he kept them as far as possible away from eachother ... the whole town was allowed to be around her but not the woman that he loved and wanted to marry ? But in th eend, it was Lorlelai who exploded and didn't give him a chance to make it right or at least a little better for her. Luke is a little slow (sorry guys9 and if she is not telling him, he never knew or understood, so how was he suppost to know now that she wasn't happy with the waiting and not meeting April ?
I love the show, I do, but I AM DONE with the "protecting Lorelais actions" and "trying to understand".
The writers of the show suck .. they do ... the show has gone from amazing and funny to appalling and lame and for the 8th season they really should take a workshop over the summer.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ella on February 13, 2007, 11:31:46 pm

I was TICKED OFF that Rory is having the hots for her teacher and like FANTASIZING ABOUT HIM (oh, and Googling him) at the drop of a hat. She isn't even all the way in love with Logan yet.

What is it with these darn kids?  If her head can be turned that fast, she will be doomed to a life of casual encounters, if not careful.   Logan has BEEN THERE for her, and here she is openly flirting and encouraging this guy.  Ok, i am bummed out now.  Can't ONE RELATIONSHIP be ok on that show?  Oh, maybe Sookie and Jackson -NO there was lying and deceit there too.

crap.  :smash: :wall: :fight:

Ok, GOOD, Rory came clean. But i am still "worried" - she sure seemed taken with that guy - she Googled him.  That ain't good.  When i was in love with my husband and married, i can honestly say i never did that kind of thing.  I didn't think about other men during - you know.  You have to COMMIT - ya know? In your mind, heart and soul.

I am underwealmed.  While the last scene was somewhat touching - it left me cold, depressed - it felt awkward - like the whole storyline was one big bogus detour.  Sorry if i am being to cynical, but... her "explanation" at the end was - blah.  It did not fit into the other six seasons somehow.  In my opinion, with their history, if she had WANTED to love him, she could have.  I am old enuf to know how you can learn to love someone - Love is a verb.  I think it IS LUKE - not just that Chris is not the right guy.  Why?  Because for a woman who SO DESPERATELY was "ready for marriage" she sure didn't put much soul into it.  She was ALL TALK but no action.  She sabotaged it in her heart, then cried wolf.  Whatever.   i am just GLAD this chapter is over now.

At this time, i am not even that excited about Luke and Lorelai coming together again, becuase i smell some more BAD WRITING around the corner. I hope not. I hope there will be some GOOD WRITING for the reconcilliation. Ok, i suppose i wil be unpopular on this.  I am just being a hard realist here. Thanks for allowing me to express myself.  Thank you.

Zeddie makes some good points here which should be listened to, I think.  

The breakup was very, very well portrayed compared to everything else that's been seen this season.  They actually talked about their feelings, about everything that had happened since Partings, and Chris and Lorelai both were mature about it all.  And it was clear that they will always have a special connection, even if Chris is not "the one."  It's amazing what really good writing and acting can do to a story (especially if I hear Luke and Lorelai fans have shed a small tear for the demise of Lorelai and Christopher!).  The end of Chris and Lorelai's marriage seemed almost wistfully romantic, in a way.  There was this impression of...we've been on a crazy rollercoaster ride since we got together and now we're finally going to stop and take a breath, look back and see where we went wrong.  It seemed touching.

And yet, I have to say, it really isn't.  There's nothing romantic about this whole situation, and it makes me sorry that it's being portrayed in such a romantic light.  And I think that is one of the things that I have never liked about the idea of Luke and Lorelai's romance, and my feelings have just gotten more extreme now.  That somehow it's romantic that two people are there for each other for years and years, but in the meantime the man marries someone else and divorces her, and then the supposed "soulmates" get engaged but then they break up, and then the woman marries her daughter's father and divorces him and then finally the true loves can get back together.  Because they've hurt many people and each other but it's all part of a long long journey where everything melts away at the end and they can be in love.  Ugh, it may be portrayed as romantic--but it's not!  That's just my cold dose of reality on the episode--sorry!

(And not to say that people aren't allowed to make mistakes.  I do believe Lorelai and Christopher and Luke all made human mistakes here and should be forgiven.  And hopefully Luke and Lorelai will talk about all their mistakes and forgive each other, and everyone will all be happy.  It's just that to me it feels like Zeddie said--"one big detour."  That everyone had to make all these huge mistakes just to get back where they started from--and that a marriage can just be undone and everything will go back to normal. Seriously I vote that everyone--Emily, Richard, Luke, Lorelai, Christopher, Rory--forgives each other for everything they've put each other through all these years, Logan and Rory stay together with no complications, and then the show wraps up at the end of this season.  Because I have a nagging feeling that if everyone does show growth by the end of this season, it will all be undone to create more drama in a Season 8.)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: hello_dolly on February 14, 2007, 12:13:35 am
And yet, I have to say, it really isn't.  There's nothing romantic about this whole situation, and it makes me sorry that it's being portrayed in such a romantic light.  And I think that is one of the things that I have never liked about the idea of Luke and Lorelai's romance, and my feelings have just gotten more extreme now.  That somehow it's romantic that two people are there for each other for years and years, but in the meantime the man marries someone else and divorces her, and then the supposed "soulmates" get engaged but then they break up, and then the woman marries her daughter's father and divorces him and then finally the true loves can get back together.  Because they've hurt many people and each other but it's all part of a long long journey where everything melts away at the end and they can be in love.  Ugh, it may be portrayed as romantic--but it's not!  That's just my cold dose of reality on the episode--sorry!

Yes! Thank you! Is leaving a trail of wounded people in your wake on your journey to a happily ever after with your "soulmate" really romantic? Is that what we're supposed to think? I get that having a television show about puppies and unicorns dancing around rainbows and picking sunflowers would be incredibly boring. Unless you're 5. But butchering Luke and Lorelai, then establishing the doomed Christopher and Lorelia relationship, then beating Chris to a pulp, and finally staging the inevitable Luke and Lorelai reunion. I'm sorry, not romantic at all. Twisted. And I could care less about Luke and Lorelai's forthcoming Casablanca moment. I mean, honestly they dragged that saga out to the point where it's just exhausting.

(And not to say that people aren't allowed to make mistakes.  I do believe Lorelai and Christopher and Luke all made human mistakes here and should be forgiven.  And hopefully Luke and Lorelai will talk about all their mistakes and forgive each other, and everyone will all be happy.  It's just that to me it feels like Zeddie said--"one big detour."  That everyone had to make all these huge mistakes just to get back where they started from--and that a marriage can just be undone and everything will go back to normal. Seriously I vote that everyone--Emily, Richard, Luke, Lorelai, Christopher, Rory--forgives each other for everything they've put each other through all these years, Logan and Rory stay together with no complications, and then the show wraps up at the end of this season.  Because I have a nagging feeling that if everyone does show growth by the end of this season, it will all be undone to create more drama in a Season 8.)

Of course. The old "everyone makes mistakes" stand-by. But eventually the "making mistakes" crosses the line to plain cruelty. And that's true for Lorelai and Christopher throughout the entire show.

hello_dolly I completly agree with you. I like Chris and Lorelai together, but we all can't get what we want, but the way she treated him was ... just beneath her and beneath Christopher. It was her who ran to Chris that night Luke said that he didn't want to get married now, she used him ... maybe to hurt Luke. Her actions were and are disgraceful for a Lorlelai Gilmore as we have gotten to know her and love her. Right from season 6 where the things with Luke got messy, she started to change to a very different person .. she treated Chris bad ... who, made only the mistake to push the fast forward button in their relationship because he is a fool in love, that's not a crime, that's actually really sweet (and a little stupid), Luke ... I don't like him, at all, I think he could have handeld the April - thing different and give Lorelai a little more space with his daugther to get to know her, but he kept them as far as possible away from eachother ... the whole town was allowed to be around her but not the woman that he loved and wanted to marry ? But in th eend, it was Lorlelai who exploded and didn't give him a chance to make it right or at least a little better for her. Luke is a little slow (sorry guys9 and if she is not telling him, he never knew or understood, so how was he suppost to know now that she wasn't happy with the waiting and not meeting April ?
I love the show, I do, but I AM DONE with the "protecting Lorelais actions" and "trying to understand".
The writers of the show suck .. they do ... the show has gone from amazing and funny to appalling and lame and for the 8th season they really should take a workshop over the summer.


Well put. I have hardly recognized Lorelai these past two seasons. And I am not the kind of viewer that can ignore the protagonist's flaws, or the cracks in a relationship or beloved couple (I am was? a Java Junkie after all). Luke is a very kind man, but he is dense. I'm not sure he's ever been right for Lorelai. I've just liked the idea of them ending up together. But at this point I could care less who Lorelai ends up with. I'm focusing on Rory and Logan from now on. At least their relationship, through the drama and the flaws, has remained believable, true to the characters, and hasn't left me whiplashed by confusion.

Farewell, My Pet. As I said before, that episode title was incredibly appropriate. I find it hard to believe that the writers did not mean it to also reflect Christopher's unfortunate role in Lorelai's life as of the last two seasons. Lap Dog.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: stephmw on February 14, 2007, 12:23:08 am
You know, I've been a GG fan since the beginning (we've had our ups and downs...with a lack of cable/satellite I was deprived for season 3, but I've been there all through the rest). I think the premise is great and very original, and I've always liked Lorelai and Rory...but I must say, this show has really gone to the dogs in my eyes. What has happened to these two women whom I so love to watch every week? They've been replaced with vapid, flighty and completely out-of-character (at times) personas. When was it precisely, that the writers decided that they could no longer hold true to the original spirit of this show? And what possessed them to throw our beloved characters on this ridiculous roller coaster of pointless drama?

This may seem harsh, but I am incredibly frustrated with everything that is happening. I have been sitting on the edge of my seat for so long now...probably since the Rory/Dean debacle with the cheating...and I just can't understand. Where are the writers going? What are they doing? I am convinced that this has not all been character flaws, but supreme WRITING flaws. Nearly an entire year of Rory and Lorelai not talking to each other and it all sewn up in seemingly moments. Years of lead-up to a Luke/Lorelai romance and then it finally happens and it's boring as sin...not to mention the April bungle. If Luke had really been "in it" there would be no way that he would have kept Lorelai in the dark. Completely out-of-character. I could understand her frustration with him, and it was a shame that she ran straight to Christopher, but it's all such junk. After all of that things between her and Luke ended so easily, so quickly, and I was mortified at the writers for trashing such a pivotal romance with such ease.

Then they thrust her into a hasty courtship-turned-marriage with Christopher, and I don't know about the rest, but I was just struggling to keep up. Lorelai made a decision that was obviously wrong (for the time at least) and now she was struggling to decide that things weren't right? Now they're over and the writing team has successfully done away with the two major romances of the show in how many episodes? God, what else will be hurled into the trash bin (other than my respect)?

This entire arc hasn't made sense to me and I can't help but long for the days of old when the show was strong and had direction. The way things are going, I feel an eighth season would be completely pointless. It just seems as though the plot is simply giant detours threaded together, and searching for stability and sense is like searching for a needle in a haystack.

I will be the first to not give Sookie props for her infamous "BUT". If Luke weren't in the picture, of course Chris would be "the one". And the question merely insinuates that Luke is "the one" and therefore, what is the point of the question in the first place? If Luke needs to be taken out of the picture for Lorelai to decide who she should be with, the question is moot. People may disagree and that's their prerogative, but really, please don't forget all the history that Lorelai and Chris have...the chemistry has always been there between them, they've just never had the timing...it always goes back to Chris; the time with Luke doesn't erase that. Chris is just as much a part of Lorelai's history as Luke is.

After the way both relationships have been bulldozed I hardly feel as though there should be any revival of either. This episode was sad for many reasons...but mostly because it squashed any hope I had left. Hope for Lorelai, hope for the show, hope for a semblance of closure in some regard...hope for a return to better days.

Props to Lauren Graham for her emotion in the last scene. I've been through similar situations and that's exactly how I've felt, she really captured the moment (however much I disliked the decision to have such a moment). Anyhow, sorry for the negative post, but I've really lost faith lately and I wanted to share with fellow fans.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Mara on February 14, 2007, 12:39:46 am
Quote
Farewell, My Pet. As I said before, that episode title was incredibly appropriate. I find it hard to believe that the writers did not mean it to also reflect Christopher's unfortunate role in Lorelai's life as of the last two seasons. Lap Dog.

It's kind of strange that a BB and JJ can find a peace and agreement like this. But we should probably duck down, because I think a lot of JJs and BBs are seeing it differntly.

I like the Logan / Rory story too ... hope that a least they will make it.

Quote
What else will be hurled into the trash bin (other than my respect)?

A very good question that I'm asking myself.[/i] [/color]


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ella on February 14, 2007, 12:42:17 am
I think the process has happened gradually, but the writers have slowly lost more and more of any kind of credible storyline as the show wore on.  I've seen people analyze the show to death, do all kinds of convoluted analysis of characters, dream up far-fetched ways to get everything back to where it ought to be...but no one ever mentions what I'd call the "elephant in the room."  And that is, that the writers crossed a point of no return somewhere.  That the show simply went somewhere where it can't totally come back from anymore, no matter what an amazing writing job or acting job is done.  That they've slowly been playing havoc with storylines and characters until it isn't possible to have one nice, continuous, smooth storyline leading up to a happy ending anymore.  It's sad, very sad for fans, because the characters are compelling--but what they're doing, and what's happening to them, is becoming meaningless.

Individual episodes, don't get me wrong, can still work and be very enjoyable.  But the overall story arcs of the characters are no longer credible or "organic" (I think the writers enjoy that word.)

I'm thinking the show should end at Season 7, just to salvage what was good about it, because I think it really passed the point of no return to former greatness somewhere along the line.  I'm just not quite sure where.  


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: hello_dolly on February 14, 2007, 12:55:27 am
I think the process has happened gradually, but the writers have slowly lost more and more of any kind of credible storyline as the show wore on.  I've seen people analyze the show to death, do all kinds of convoluted analysis of characters, dream up far-fetched ways to get everything back to where it ought to be...but no one ever mentions what I'd call the "elephant in the room."  And that is, that the writers crossed a point of no return somewhere.  That they've slowly been playing havoc with storylines and characters until it isn't possible to have one nice, continuous, smooth storyline leading up to a happy ending anymore.  It's sad, very sad for fans, because the characters are compelling--but what they're doing, and what's happening to them, is becoming meaningless.

Individual episodes, don't get me wrong, can still work and be very enjoyable.  But the overall story arcs of the characters are no longer credible or "organic" (I think the writers enjoy that word.)

I'm thinking the show should end at Season 7, just to salvage what was good about it, because I think it really passed the point of no return to former greatness somewhere along the line.  I'm just not quite sure where.  

I think the point of no return was April. And you're absolutely right. I consider myself a crazy fan of the show, and to be quite honest at this point I could care less how it ends.

stephmw, I hope everyone takes the time to read what you've written. You've made some excellent points. I hope you continue posting.



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Mara on February 14, 2007, 01:05:32 am
It's true, I just watched a you tube video about Lorelai and Chris and I just thought, that's over ... there was always the possibility and now it seems to be gone ... even though I don't think that a love, being around and "strong" for over 20 years just days with the words "You are the man I want to want" ... maybe that's just the hope still talking ... man, why is it here so early in the day ... I could crawl back to bed right now and let this day pass. Upps, it's valentinesday ... maybe not  ;).
Anyway, as you said, the wirters crossed the point where they could go back. Amy started it, but I would like to know how the show would be with her still there ... will we ever know ?

Quote
I'm thinking the show should end at Season 7, just to salvage what was good about it, because I think it really passed the point of no return to former greatness somewhere along the line.  I'm just not quite sure where.

I'd like a season 8, but only because I don't think that everything that got so messed up in season 6 and 7 can end now in the season 7 finale in a way that put's our minds at ease.
Before Gilmore Girls I was (am) a huge Friends fan, I just loved the show and things there got never that messed up, but some storylines seemend over ... but they always, always manged to bring them back in a great way, maybe the Gilmore writers should take a summer - writing - class with them  ;). And, Friends sticked around for 3 more seasons after the first "We want to quit", just because the fans needed them and needed the story to end in a way that would make them happy. I think us Gilmore Girls fand deserve the same.

... she said, ducked and ran out  ;).[/color][/i]


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Mara on February 14, 2007, 01:07:01 am
It's true, I just watched a you tube video about Lorelai and Chris and I just thought, that's over ... there was always the possibility and now it seems to be gone ... even though I don't think that a love, being around and "strong" for over 20 years just dies with the words "You are the man I want to want" ... maybe that's just the hope still talking ... man, why is it here so early in the day ... I could crawl back to bed right now and let this day pass. Upps, it's valentinesday ... maybe not  ;).
Anyway, as you said, the wirters crossed the point where they could go back. Amy started it, but I would like to know how the show would be with her still there ... will we ever know ?

Quote
I'm thinking the show should end at Season 7, just to salvage what was good about it, because I think it really passed the point of no return to former greatness somewhere along the line.  I'm just not quite sure where.

I'd like a season 8, but only because I don't think that everything that got so messed up in season 6 and 7 can end now in the season 7 finale in a way that put's our minds at ease.
Before Gilmore Girls I was (am) a huge Friends fan, I just loved the show and things there got never that messed up, but some storylines seemend over ... but they always, always manged to bring them back in a great way, maybe the Gilmore writers should take a summer - writing - class with them  ;). And, Friends sticked around for 3 more seasons after the first "We want to quit", just because the fans needed them and needed the story to end in a way that would make them happy. I think us Gilmore Girls fand deserve the same.

... she said, ducked and ran out  ;).[/color][/i]


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: stephmw on February 14, 2007, 01:10:26 am
I think the process has happened gradually, but the writers have slowly lost more and more of any kind of credible storyline as the show wore on.  I've seen people analyze the show to death, do all kinds of convoluted analysis of characters, dream up far-fetched ways to get everything back to where it ought to be...but no one ever mentions what I'd call the "elephant in the room."  And that is, that the writers crossed a point of no return somewhere.  That the show simply went somewhere where it can't totally come back from anymore, no matter what an amazing writing job or acting job is done.  That they've slowly been playing havoc with storylines and characters until it isn't possible to have one nice, continuous, smooth storyline leading up to a happy ending anymore.  It's sad, very sad for fans, because the characters are compelling--but what they're doing, and what's happening to them, is becoming meaningless.

Individual episodes, don't get me wrong, can still work and be very enjoyable.  But the overall story arcs of the characters are no longer credible or "organic" (I think the writers enjoy that word.)

I'm thinking the show should end at Season 7, just to salvage what was good about it, because I think it really passed the point of no return to former greatness somewhere along the line.  I'm just not quite sure where. 

Yes, my feelings exactly. I mean, we can all bury our heads in the sand and frantically paste together whatever remains we can get our hands on, but in the end, what's the point really? The ends don't justify the means and any happy ending that fans are wishing for can never be completely fulfilling...it's all just been cheapened by everything that's happened. I'm not really a "BB" or a "JJ", so I have no complete preference (other than Lorelai finding happiness wherever it may end up) but I couldn't really be happy with either choice at this point. Too much has happened, it's been tarnished.

But you're right, the other lovable elements still shine through at times and they can't be ignored. Perhaps concentrating on the positive is best until the timely finish...all things must come to an end anyhow, and in the true spirit of most TV show finales before it, Gilmore Girls will most likely fall short in some way, shape or form. It's really a feat to bring complete closure to a near decade's worth of work in just an hour or two. I can't say I've been very happy with many in the last few years and with the way GG is going, I can hardly expect such.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: HonoraryGilmore on February 14, 2007, 01:14:54 am
Good Episode. Lauren Graham was amazing like always.. I did however felt bad for Chris. It's always hard to accept the truth, no matter how hard you deny it or look past it, the truth will always come out. He finally admitted that he did kinda pressure Lorelai into getting married. YES I know she had a choice and everything but like Chris said, she was vulnerable.. ANd thank God for Sookie!! I mean she has always been rooting for Luke.. And when she asked Lorelai if there was no Luke at all, would Chris be the one? That was to the point and it made Lorelai think. It was crazy when she said she was committed to making her marriage work and the only way to do that is to cut Luke completely out of her life. What a contradiction!! She just wrote a character witness saying that when Luke Danes is in your life, he's in your life forever!! But I think deep inside she knew that.. That last scene when her and Chris were talking and she was falling apart, you can see that she did want it to work but there is a big difference between the man that she wants to want and the man that she does want....

On a lighter note, kudos to Rory. I was glad to hear her say that she's on Lorelai's side no matter what.. I really miss their mother/daughter interaction a lot.. Oh and I wished they showed PAris and her belly dancing aspirations!! :)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: stephmw on February 14, 2007, 01:18:27 am
stephmw, I hope everyone takes the time to read what you've written. You've made some excellent points. I hope you continue posting.

Well, thanks for saying so. Most of it is my frustration hitting the boiling point from this latest episode...it needed a place to go. And since my boyfriend didn't seem too interested in listening to my viewpoints, I figured I'd try to find some people who might actually care about the subject  ;).

I actually wasn't going to post until I saw your posts though, hello_dolly as I was somewhat overwhelmed by the cheers of joy for what occurred. I'm glad that there's someone out there who may be feeling a bit like I do. Funny how caught up we get in these shows, eh?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: hello_dolly on February 14, 2007, 01:36:40 am
stephmw, I hope everyone takes the time to read what you've written. You've made some excellent points. I hope you continue posting.

Well, thanks for saying so. Most of it is my frustration hitting the boiling point from this latest episode...it needed a place to go. And since my boyfriend didn't seem too interested in listening to my viewpoints, I figured I'd try to find some people who might actually care about the subject  ;).

I actually wasn't going to post until I saw your posts though, hello_dolly as I was somewhat overwhelmed by the cheers of joy for what occurred. I'm glad that there's someone out there who may be feeling a bit like I do. Funny how caught up we get in these shows, eh?

I'm so glad I did. It's important to keep in mind that the majority does not necessarily rule. As Richard Gilmore famously said, "One wrong man can always find a friend." Or in this case several. I often find myself disagreeing with the majority opinion on this forum. I don't care if hundreds disagree with me, and you and I and a select few stand alone on the other side of the line. I don't think that makes our opinion any less worth sharing.

On that note, I think it's important to post whatever you think, especially is it's unpopular. And it's important to be allowed to do so by what often turns out to be an overzealous majority on this forum.

It cracks me up weekly how invested I am in this show. *sigh*


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: stephmw on February 14, 2007, 02:07:52 am
I'm not generally this negative, but I'm disappointed. All I want is to watch a show that is strong and consistent from beginning to end. Nothing is without flaw, of course, but to see my favourite characters get repeatedly put through the wringer is rather upsetting. I suspect these writing faux-pas are due to staleness...perhaps the show has been on too long. The mark of a truly good writer is knowing when to wrap things up (among other things). While I love the show, I feel that it may have benefitted from a limited number of seasons...but who knows where we'd be in that circumstance.

At least Rory seems to be in a good place (grr to TA insertion...you stay back "generally average-looking professor wannabe", I can't deal with both of my GG's messed up at the same time). I really like Logan, and I think he makes a very good match with Rory. Hopefully the writers' voracious appetites for chaos will be sated with Lorelai's destructed love life and they'll keep their inverted "Midas touch" away from the younger Gilmore. Someone's got to have a happy ending. Until the end we must simply sit back and see where this crazy, messed up road leads...and while I may never find true contentment in the end, I'll probably have some good laughs on the way.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lukenlor on February 14, 2007, 03:30:01 am
The morning after...

I agree that this whole downward spiral of GG started with the arrival of April. I cringe when I think about where this show would have gone had that whole story line NOT come into play.

However, after the end of last season, I think it was very reasonable, plausible for Lorelai to explore the relationship with Christopher she never had. SHe didn't have to marry him, but explore.

That having been done, and having had the realization that they (l/C) are not meant to be,
what other ending could there have been. The honesty, the love, the loyalty of these two teenage sweethearts that has survived through the years, through all the stages of their lives, finally realizing "the dream is over".
It's terribly, terribly sad, but it seems to me, very possible. It was done with love &respect.

That's all from me...


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: javajunkie93 on February 14, 2007, 03:53:03 am
Thoughts on the episode:
This was what we needed to happen. I hate Lorelai and Christopher, however, I felt in this episode David Rosenthal actually did a good job of having us wish they could stay together, especially at the end, god that was sad. But at least it didn't end with a fight, I didn't want them to break up in a fight. They broke up kind of sad and mutual.
The thing with this episode was, it felt like everything that happened other than the L/C interaction was just fillers, and that kind of bugged me. I thought there would be this whole Rory drama but there wasn't, it kind of crashed and burned.
And the promo for next week SUCKED. Was that supposed to be Miss Patty that Babette was talking to? God I hope not. She looked way too weird.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: xxLL4Everxx on February 14, 2007, 04:33:08 am
I thought this had to be the best episode all season. I hated Christopher and I love that Lorelai still has feelings for Luke. I was kind of disappointed though that Logan wasn't the least bit jealous when Rory told him she had a crush on the professor. I still can't help thinking what it would have been like if April never came into the picture.  ???


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Speckles on February 14, 2007, 06:18:55 am
I agree with a previous purpose that most of the rest of the episode was filler...  And i HATE it when they make the trailer appear like something big is going to happen but the editing is what made it look intense, when whatever it is really happens it's nothing.  (note: I'm talking abt. the voice over about Rory and Logan.)  I'm actually enjoying Logan ont he show.  He's much better now that he's grown up and has a heart.

And I LOVED the preview for next week.  It wass hilarious, I thought.  A great way to intro the episode.  :-)  I don't think that Luke and Lorelai will reconcile till the 27th of February, if I may add my speculations.  February Sweeps, guys... They're gonna drag it out as long as they can.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: khadijahnm on February 14, 2007, 06:39:13 am
Okay I have read too many posts that I respectfully disagree with.

Now it is my time to post some rebuttals.

The only thing wrong in the many seasons of the GG is how ASP left us in season 6. Even though I do own that on DVD, that season was very, very different from the previous five. It was ASP that gave us the fiasco of 'Partings'.

Dave Rosenthal has to be given great kudos for repairing what ASP broke.

Last night's episode was wonderful. As a diehard Java Junkie, I was floored when Lorelai said to Sookie that she would severe all ties to Luke to save her marriage. We all know that she has been fooling herself but I believe that Lorelai really, really, really wanted her marriage to work. But you only deny yourself and your true feelilngs for so long. Sookie, and rightfully so, was the true voice of reason and I am so glad that Lorelai finally listened to her. She was a supportive best friend who brought out the obvious; that notwithstanding Luke, Chris (in Lorelai's psyche) is not the one for her.

Yes, both Lorelai and Chris were to blame for the sham of a marriage. They were both living in the past and thought that their teenage, immature love could still keep them together as husband and wife 20 years later. We all knew (or should have known) that it was an unrealistic dream. Especially, given the fact that Christopher admitted that Lorelai was vulnerable and in no way ready to be married to anyone after her breakup with Luke.

I have to regret that I cannot comment on the last scene with Chris and Lorelai since my local CW went out during it. I am so distraught!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will have to wait until I can find the last scene on the internet to comment on that. From what posts I have read here, I can only imagine how poignant and emotional it was.

I think that Rory and Logan were very cute. She is trying to be super cautious because of the 'Marty fiasco' but I liked how Logan reassured her that she hadn't done anything wrong. Contrary to some opinions posted here, I think that everything in Rory's relationships have helped her grow and realize that she is human and fallible.

For example, her treatment of her first love Dean. How she dumped him for 'rebel' Jess, who was not good for her in my humble opinion. I think Rory's 'faux pas' of sleeping with the married Dean woke her up to her own humanity; I think that story twist was needed to wake her up and help her mature. I

I am off to relentessly search for the last scene of yesterday's episode.

I will post once I have achieved my mission. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Tipla on February 14, 2007, 06:40:31 am
I thought this was a really good episode.  And not just because c/l broke up, but because the pacing was just right.  Nothing seemed forced.  There was a balance between teh funny and the serious, and this time the funny didn't take away from the serious. 

Chris and Lor were two adults who realized their faults in this marriage.  I am so proud of him for confronting the push element, and he should have been there regardless element.  I am proud of her for the I jumped element.  And the he wouldn't be the one regardless revelation. 

Of course I did not like the 'Luke didn't want to be married.'  I disagree.  Luke didn't give in to her ultimatum.  He was uncommunicative.  He didn't talk about April, but I disagree witht eh blanket statemetn that he didn't want to be married when he did so many things to show her he did want to be married. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: HonoraryGilmore on February 14, 2007, 07:01:34 am
I thought this was a really good episode.  And not just because c/l broke up, but because the pacing was just right.  Nothing seemed forced.  There was a balance between teh funny and the serious, and this time the funny didn't take away from the serious. 

Chris and Lor were two adults who realized their faults in this marriage.  I am so proud of him for confronting the push element, and he should have been there regardless element.  I am proud of her for the I jumped element.  And the he wouldn't be the one regardless revelation. 

Of course I did not like the 'Luke didn't want to be married.'  I disagree.  Luke didn't give in to her ultimatum.  He was uncommunicative.  He didn't talk about April, but I disagree witht eh blanket statemetn that he didn't want to be married when he did so many things to show her he did want to be married. 


Yes I know what you mean about the comment Lorelai made about Luke not wanting to marry her. As I recall he came over the house and he had packed so they could go away like she wanted to but it was too late. Yes Luke was uncommunicative. She knew that from the start though. Luke might not be a man of words but he is a man of his words... He did tell Lorelai that he would always be there for her and he had proven that time and time again...


Title: didn't see!
Post by: Kayla on February 14, 2007, 07:06:23 am
I missed the show last night, can someone fill me in please/


Title: Re: didn't see!
Post by: Fantasy on February 14, 2007, 07:22:53 am
If you go to Episode Discussion, there is a section for Season 7, and last nights episode is being discussed under that thread.
Let me see if I can link it...
http://www.gilmoregirls.org/forum/index.php?topic=6480.120


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: JavaJunkiee on February 14, 2007, 07:26:13 am
Thoughts on last nights episode:

I basically only have to say one thing: OMG THE F.A.I.T.H. CAME THROUGH!!! CHRISTOPHER AND LORELAI ARE BROKEN UP. I KNEW THIS DAY WOULD COME AND I DID A HAPPY DANCE AFTER THE EPISODE!! I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS HAPPENED!!!!!!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ckiddings on February 14, 2007, 07:51:20 am
I was also really happy to see Rory and Lorelai's little chat earlier in the episode. "I'm always on your side." "Bye Hilde..."

Let's hope that rehearsing these lines over and over will have a positive effect on Alexis and Lauren's and they will stay side by side for a season 8! :cellphone:


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Lets Shall on February 14, 2007, 08:11:55 am
Wow, I think Lauren Graham did a really great job during the final scene with Chris.  That moment when she was in tears saying, "I just want you to know that you are the man that I want to want."  It was so genuine and heartfelt.  She is an amazing actress.

And I think that someone below posted about the "Heart" songs that Lorelai was naming in the music store.  When I was watching that scene I was thinking how ironic it was that she was naming off all of these situations that her own heart has been in.

I don't even know what to say about Logan & Rory.  So Logan gets jealous over Jess and Marty, but suddenly he is cool about Rory having a crush?  I may be reading too much into this, but it does seem a little strange that he doesn't care that his girlfriend has a crush on some guy.  Maybe their relationship is just maturing?  It is very mature of them to talk about "crushes" so openly and not get jealous.  Anyone else have a comment on this?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: soxgrrl33 on February 14, 2007, 08:15:31 am
I thought the episode was pretty good all in all. (Seeing lorelai and chris break up), but i hated how u had to wait till the very end to see them really talking like we saw in the preview last week.  i hope rory and logan dont break up. They're so cute together!  I thought that the preview for next week was sort of wierd  and didn't really explain the episode.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 14, 2007, 08:30:49 am
Hello DOlly, I disagree with you. And it's not because I'm a Java Junkie.

Christopher has been consistant throughout the series. He has always been selfish. He always hurts Lorelai. When we first saw him, and him and Lorelai had that night on the Balcony, it was Lorelai who was weak and vulnerable, but that didn't stop him from making his move. Lorelai told him that she thought she secretly tried to sabotage her relationships because she has always held onto this fantasy about them getting together, and he humilates her infront of her town. Sherry leaves him and he runs to Lorelai and makes his move during a wedding, knowing how she is being caught up in the romance of it all. Then when Sherry calls about being pregnant, he leaves her, then comes back and wants to be with Lorelai, while he still plans on marrying Sherry. He shows up at her parents wedding to belittle Luke, and break them up. He calls her, even though his daughter asked him not to, because she knows how he is, and she didn't want him to come between Lorelai and Luke.

Then when she is totally broken, he sleeps with her, knowing that she is engaged. It doesn't matter who initiated it, she was the one who was vulnerable and hurt, he should have comfortered her, lent her and ear and a shoulder, not his bed. He knew how bad she wanted to get married, how she thought she was hopeless, that she never would never get married, and he was there knowing that she always had the fantasy of marrying Christopher, and being family with him and Rory. She was weak and vulnerable emotionally, and he capitalized on it like he always does.

Even when the marriage is falling apart, because he can't get over himself, and he's being selfish, Lorelai stands there defending him. She was willing to give up her friend, someone who had been in her life, and been there for her through all of the hardest times. Someone who was a dad to Rory, because her own father wasn't. She was willing to do that to make it work with Christopher, while he ran off to his mommy. She took the blame for it all, and he sat there and let her, and tried coming out looking like the good guy. The writiers tried to make you show sympathy for him, but I didn't, sorry. To me Christopher just is just a selfish child.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: french1016 on February 14, 2007, 08:35:13 am
As much as I would love to see Christopher go far far far far away I am tired of hurting for Lor. I want so badly for her to be happy. I want her to find someone who makes her sparkle and feel safe at the same time. AGH maybe Luke will finally do that.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ckiddings on February 14, 2007, 08:42:29 am
Am I so wrapped up in the plot that I am missing it, or have they stopped playing the Caroline King little jingle snippets during the show? If so, why. I loved that.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: jamhandsmom on February 14, 2007, 08:55:44 am
Quote
And yet, I have to say, it really isn't.  There's nothing romantic about this whole situation, and it makes me sorry that it's being portrayed in such a romantic light.  And I think that is one of the things that I have never liked about the idea of Luke and Lorelai's romance, and my feelings have just gotten more extreme now.  That somehow it's romantic that two people are there for each other for years and years, but in the meantime the man marries someone else and divorces her, and then the supposed "soulmates" get engaged but then they break up, and then the woman marries her daughter's father and divorces him and then finally the true loves can get back together.  Because they've hurt many people and each other but it's all part of a long long journey where everything melts away at the end and they can be in love.  Ugh, it may be portrayed as romantic--but it's not!  That's just my cold dose of reality on the episode--sorry!
I agree. IRL I would not support the divorce. Luke's was understandable since she was cheating on him. And it's arguable that Lorelai couldn't have saved the marriage even if she hadn't had the Sookie-talk, since Christopher already saw that she didn't truly love him. But my personal belief is that marriage is for life, and that when someone ceases to be "the one" you still need to make it work. I love Luke and understand the soulmate thing and I'm willing to let things slide for a TV show. :) But I am annoyed that the writers have, in my opinion, trivialized marriage.

That said, I am looking forward to the inevitable reuniting! I know it won't happen right away, but I love L/L together.

I am curious to see where the Rory/Logan/TA thing is going...I can't stand the thought of R/L breaking up!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ckiddings on February 14, 2007, 09:04:32 am
But my personal belief is that marriage is for life, and that when someone ceases to be "the one" you still need to make it work. I love Luke and understand the soulmate thing and I'm willing to let things slide for a TV show. :) But I am annoyed that the writers have, in my opinion, trivialized marriage.
Quote

I have always wondered if the Lorelai sleeping with Christopher while still engaged to Luke wasn't Amy P.'s way of sticking it to WB. It was some kinda twisted mess she left us with. I really don't believe if Amy would signed on to an additional two years that this would have been an issue to begin with. I think Lorelai and Luke would of had that amazing wedding we have all wanted to see, followed by news of Luke and Lorelai expecting,  just like they'd hinted at wanting several times during the last season.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 14, 2007, 09:10:09 am
I have to say, despite everyone being ultra happy with this ending it leaves me a little disappointed and I’m glad a few others feel the same way.  I get all of it I do, they weren’t meant to be and that’s it.  I just think that there’s no way of declaring a marriage won’t work after only “trying” for a couple months.  The first year of marriage is supposed to be the toughest.  That’s a fact for most people, why does giving up on it in this situation acceptable?  How do they know “it’s not right” after only a couple of months?  I was upset at first when it looked like they were just going to blame each other the whole time the first time they talked, but it did get better and less ruthless each time.  I do like that Lorelai admitted that she “jumped” making it clear that they both made this mistake.  And I’m glad she finally knows about the fight between Christopher and Luke.  I don’t know why, but I’m glad it’s out in the open.  I disagree on her saying had she known about the fight she could have done something about it.  I’m also disappointed to find out Christopher only stayed at the hospital for an hour.  Sure he needed space but once he found out he should have been there 100%.  Surprised I’m not defending him to the death?  Apparently I don’t need to…

And Lorelai’s referring to Christopher as just this possibility for her.  While it’s true, it’s not all he was and I feel like that diminished the connection they do have and was shown at the end of their final conversation with Christopher seeming to completely understand the situation and how she felt.

I was super annoyed with how Rory was acting around the TA.  But it was just a physical attraction so I can get over it.  Really the experience that Rory has had dating one man and being attracted to another doesn’t leave her with a good track record.  Dean & Jess are the perfect example, she was dating Dean but attracted to Jess and look how that turned out, it caused major havoc in her life for a while.  Logan is her first serious adult relationship.  He was right about crushes and that they may come and go, you can be attracted to other people while dating/being in love with someone.  Logan made the point perfectly.  I’m also glad Rory told him or it could have become bigger for her than it really was. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: cfbandit on February 14, 2007, 09:22:29 am
Hi all! New to the site, but devoted watcher of the show since the beginning.

I have to say I'm thankful they decided not to drag on the Chris-Lorelai breakup. They seem to have been setting up since the beginning that it was not going to last long, and some things in GG seem to drag on FOREVER.

Rory's bit seemed a little too neat and tidy, but at the same time it worked. Logan is her first adult relationship, so its bound to have some odd quirks (I know there were some in my own LOL).

I'm actually wondering if anyone knows of screenshots of the episode - I'm looking for one with Lorelai's awesome pink hat b/c I want to try and duplicate it for myself. Any ideas?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: flex151 on February 14, 2007, 09:36:26 am
Predictable.

I don't think anyone was surprised by last night's episode. Christopher and Lorelai's relationship and marriage served only one purpose: to make her reunion with Luke more dramatic. Forgive me for being a little j-j-jaded, but it was a cheap plot device. I agree with whoever said they would drag out the reunion for February Sweeps. Damn straight they will.

Am I so wrapped up in the plot that I am missing it, or have they stopped playing the Caroline King little jingle snippets during the show? If so, why. I loved that.

The snippets, or cues as they're called, weren't Carol King's, they were by Sam Phillips. And you're right, there has been less music on the show since Rosenthal took over.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: jamhandsmom on February 14, 2007, 10:01:36 am
Quote
I don't think that Luke and Lorelai will reconcile till the 27th of February, if I may add my speculations.  February Sweeps, guys... They're gonna drag it out as long as they can.
I would be disappointed if it happened before then, honestly. It would be nice if, now that she realized that she "jumped", that next time she'd be a little more cautious and thorough. Lorelai definitely has some Luke issues to work out, she can't just forget the problems they had before. And Luke needs to convince her that being "all in" includes difficult relationships, decision-making, etc.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ckiddings on February 14, 2007, 10:04:22 am
Am I so wrapped up in the plot that I am missing it, or have they stopped playing the Caroline King little jingle snippets during the show? If so, why. I loved that.

The snippets, or cues as they're called, weren't Carol King's, they were by Sam Phillips. And you're right, there has been less music on the show since Rosenthal took over.
Quote

Thanks for the correction and the lesson on TV production jargon. I like to learn something new everyday. I am way ahead of schedule now!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: conradv on February 14, 2007, 10:07:22 am
Hmmm.  Interesting posts on the episode.  I thought it was very well done.  I thought that Chris finally "figured it out" and can MOVE ON with his life.

I still don't get how people don't understand the "You're the man I want to want" line....  ???


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: JLeigh2182 on February 14, 2007, 10:12:53 am
Quote
I don't think that Luke and Lorelai will reconcile till the 27th of February, if I may add my speculations.  February Sweeps, guys... They're gonna drag it out as long as they can.
I would be disappointed if it happened before then, honestly. It would be nice if, now that she realized that she "jumped", that next time she'd be a little more cautious and thorough. Lorelai definitely has some Luke issues to work out, she can't just forget the problems they had before. And Luke needs to convince her that being "all in" includes difficult relationships, decision-making, etc.

I agree with you.  As much as I want Luke & Lorelai back together, I would be very disappointed if they just get back together.  I mean, Lorelai "jumped" with Christopher and even if she is still in-love with Luke, there was a lot of damage that needs to be repaired.  They've taken steps in that direction (the "letter", the hospital, waving from outside the diner) and I'm glad they're at least starting to become friendly again.  I will be more than thrilled just to see Lorelai back in the diner.  A lot of what I love about Gilmore Girls has been absent this season and I'm hoping that they're trying to get back to the "roots" of the show. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ckiddings on February 14, 2007, 10:23:38 am
Quote
A lot of what I love about Gilmore Girls has been absent this season and I'm hoping that they're trying to get back to the "roots" of the show. 

I would love to see a little less serious drama and a little more of the quirky drama involving the town folk, as an example; Kirks debut movie, or Lukes dilemas with Taylor Dose, or Cinnamins funeral.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Lets Shall on February 14, 2007, 10:30:28 am
Michels dog funeral was quirky.. with all of the dogs there.  Oh did anyone notice that Paul Anka wasn't there?

I think it's going to get quirky again.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: willowsprite on February 14, 2007, 10:36:24 am
My thoughts may already be posted by others, but am in a time crunch, so need to get my first thoughts out, and then I'll go back (hope!) and read what the rest of you think.  My impressions:

*I found the whole Rory attraction to the professor a bit odd, but sudden attractions do happen.  The whole scene where she is confessing to Logan about it was weird for me.  I could see her talking about it to her mom, Paris, whoever, but why tell Logan when the others could have told her the same thing,that it was just a crush and okay, and then avoided all the ackwardness.  I know, honesty is a virtue, but come on.

*loved the scene in the beginning where the Gilmores are walking around the hospital, and Lorelei is encouraging Richard to walk faster than his competition in the cardiac ward.

*loved the plotline about Michel's dog dying and the memorial.  Lots of good moments there, but my fav was Zack's horror at having to play the Celine Dion song.

*and to Chris and Lorelei . . . even I was shocked that Chris only stayed an hour and then vanished again for 2 plus days. And Chris' behavior rarely suprises me. By the way, did anyone else think it odd that only 2 days had elapsed?  Would a bypass patient be that far along in two days?  I thought it on point and poignant when Lorelei was like I needed you to be there, and he was like well I checked in, and she's like But I needed you.  He didn't seem to get it.

*on the breakup--again I was shocked.  Not at the direction, but the sudden okay this isn't working so lets split.  As much as I want L/L together, I wanted to tell L/C they should try counseling or something.  Just didn't seem to flow that Chris would suddenly be so rational and accepting that it wasn't meant to be, and that Lorelei was suddenly so self-aware and knew what she wanted.  But I didn't like the way the whole marriage story was managed either--way too sudden etc., know that has been discussed ad nauseum.

*in all the epi left me feeling like I was standing in one place, and the show had left me at the last turn, and I am standing there thinking -what just happened?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 14, 2007, 10:55:23 am
I didn't think it was rushed or odd. Nor was their entire marriage some hideous freak of the sacrament. Lorelai has imagined being married to Chris since she first said 'no,' I don't blame her for thinking it would be right. And Christopher being the catalyst that made her realize it was totally unexpected. She didn't leave, he did, but for once a guy stuck around long enough to make her understand that it wasn't because he didn't love her or because she 'wrecked' it somehow.

It 'wasn't right,' anymore than any of her other serious couplings were, but at this late stage, she never would have left him over that. It took the guy who endorsed her leaving Max (not because he wanted her, but because he understood that's who she was) to remind her that she couldn't stay with a guy when it 'wasn't right.' Even if it was him. Luke let her go, but Christopher set her free. I thought it was a nice redemption for him.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: thomasja1 on February 14, 2007, 11:03:24 am
 :)

FINALLY Lorelei splits with Chris! 

Maybe now Lorelei can go back into Luke's diner an we'll
see more of the Stars Hollow crowd together. 

(http://www.janbthomas.com/images/lukes.jpg)
I hope.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ckiddings on February 14, 2007, 11:05:35 am
:)

FINALLY Lorelei splits with Chris! 

Maybe now Lorelei can go back into Luke's diner an we'll
see more of the Stars Hollow crowd together. 

(http://www.janbthomas.com/images/lukes.jpg)
I hope.

Yes, Yes, Yes. That is what I want to.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: stephmw on February 14, 2007, 11:18:17 am
My thoughts may already be posted by others, but am in a time crunch, so need to get my first thoughts out, and then I'll go back (hope!) and read what the rest of you think.  My impressions:

*I found the whole Rory attraction to the professor a bit odd, but sudden attractions do happen. 

I agree with your thoughts on the Rory quandry. No offense to the TA but I personally didn't find him any more attractive than any of the other male cast members who are on (or have been in the past) the show. The fact that Rory was instantly goo goo eyed really didn't fit. Perhaps if he was some super Adonis...but no, I didn't see that. She's been with very attractive guys through the years and she's never really fallen all over herself.

The whole scene where she is confessing to Logan about it was weird for me.  I could see her talking about it to her mom, Paris, whoever, but why tell Logan when the others could have told her the same thing,that it was just a crush and okay, and then avoided all the ackwardness.  I know, honesty is a virtue, but come on.

Exactly, it seemed like the conversation was scripted for Rory and someone else. It was a very strange chat to have with a boyfriend. While I am in my own adult relationship, I am aware that in general, men do not like to have things like that waved around in front of them. And I doubt many would act so calm and cool...we musn't forget testosterone no matter how mature our guys are. The whole thing just felt stilted to me...and very much like they were closing the book on the subject, but I somehow doubt that'll be the end of it. Which means the writers can't make a decision.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Lets Shall on February 14, 2007, 11:20:44 am
...but Christopher set her free. I thought it was a nice redemption for him.

But Christopher set her free- That is really well put.  In last night's episode, Chris definently set Lorelai free.  Last night I really felt bad for Chris, and obviously it took A LOT for him to let Lorelai go.  I've liked Chris throughout the show, even though I do prefer L/L together.  But I'm just glad that it ended the way it did last night rather than a big blow out.  


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: FuzzyCerts on February 14, 2007, 11:22:03 am
Hello everyone!  I am new here..just registered today.  Unfortunately none of my friends like the Gilmore Girls...or at least not as much as I do and therefore I need to talk about it with fellow fans!  

I just have to say that I am sooooo happy that Lorelai and Christopher are split up.  I was against their relationship from the beginning and was very annoyed when they got married because I knew she was making a bad decision.  Chris was changing Lorelai and she was starting to be less quirky.  I've read some other posts and some people are saying that the break-up was too sudden and that Lorelai and Chris should have tried to work things out...but for the last few episodes they've been having this issue and have been slowly dealing with it so it's been a long time coming.

I don't like Logan I think Rory can do better.  He seems to be impressing some fans, but not me...I'm still skeptical, but who knows I may change my mind.  I think that their conversation about Rory's "crush" was weird.  Maybe later in the season it will have more of a purpose, but as of now I didn't think it was needed.

That's all I have to say about this episode.

:hearts:  Happy Valentine's Day everyone!  :hearts:


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: clumsy_cardhouse on February 14, 2007, 11:22:35 am
I thought this episode was pretty good. Of course, they waited till the very end to do the whole Lorelai/Christopher thing. But at least they got everything out in the open, which was great. Personally, I'm all for Luke and Lorelai, not Lorelai and Christopher.  :)

The Rory/TA thing was kind weird. Not sure where the writers are headed with this one, but hopefully it will be interesting.

Can't wait till next week!   ;D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: conradv on February 14, 2007, 11:28:23 am
I mean Lorelai and Christopher! Oops!

If you need, you can go back and edit your posts when you make a mistake.   ;D

Just click on "Modify" on the upper right of your post.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 14, 2007, 11:33:02 am
It's a valid coupling if you splice the scenes from "Merry Fisticuffs" just so...

It was a weird conversation, but not uncommon. In my experience, though, telling your lover you've got a crush on someone else isn't a high point in a relationship unless you or your lover has perfect comedic timing.
And Logan has definitely changed since "Merry Fisticuffs." Can you imagine sitting through a lead-in like that without freaking out? I would have said "are you breaking up with me?" after about thirty seconds. It's like he's a master woodsman who knows he has to sit perfectly still for a long time to figure out what the deer is really up to without spooking her.

Kind of reminds me of someone, can't quite put my finger on it...


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: stephmw on February 14, 2007, 11:46:19 am
Hello DOlly, I disagree with you. And it's not because I'm a Java Junkie.

Christopher has been consistant throughout the series. He has always been selfish. He always hurts Lorelai. When we first saw him, and him and Lorelai had that night on the Balcony, it was Lorelai who was weak and vulnerable, but that didn't stop him from making his move. Lorelai told him that she thought she secretly tried to sabotage her relationships because she has always held onto this fantasy about them getting together, and he humilates her infront of her town. Sherry leaves him and he runs to Lorelai and makes his move during a wedding, knowing how she is being caught up in the romance of it all. Then when Sherry calls about being pregnant, he leaves her, then comes back and wants to be with Lorelai, while he still plans on marrying Sherry. He shows up at her parents wedding to belittle Luke, and break them up. He calls her, even though his daughter asked him not to, because she knows how he is, and she didn't want him to come between Lorelai and Luke.

Then when she is totally broken, he sleeps with her, knowing that she is engaged. It doesn't matter who initiated it, she was the one who was vulnerable and hurt, he should have comfortered her, lent her and ear and a shoulder, not his bed. He knew how bad she wanted to get married, how she thought she was hopeless, that she never would never get married, and he was there knowing that she always had the fantasy of marrying Christopher, and being family with him and Rory. She was weak and vulnerable emotionally, and he capitalized on it like he always does.

Even when the marriage is falling apart, because he can't get over himself, and he's being selfish, Lorelai stands there defending him. She was willing to give up her friend, someone who had been in her life, and been there for her through all of the hardest times. Someone who was a dad to Rory, because her own father wasn't. She was willing to do that to make it work with Christopher, while he ran off to his mommy. She took the blame for it all, and he sat there and let her, and tried coming out looking like the good guy. The writiers tried to make you show sympathy for him, but I didn't, sorry. To me Christopher just is just a selfish child.


You make some valid points about Christopher and I do agree with some of what you say, but I hope you're not focusing all of the negative on Chris. Luke had some major problems during their relationship and you shouldn't ignore that. The whole April issue was entirely ridiculous and Luke dealt with it abominably. He finds out and then he keeps it from her, which makes no sense at all. Why would Lorelai ever react negatively to the news? Why would she judge? She had a daughter when she was 16 and raised her all by herself. The only thing Lorelai would be hurt or angry about would be him concealing it from her, which is exactly what he did. And then she finally does find out and he's insanely happy about the idea of postponing their wedding. For a guy who's been pining away for her for years and years he sure was quick to put her on the shelf/backburner.

It makes no sense. She's a mother, a great mother, why wouldn't he have asked for her help sooner? If the guy is unable to focus on more than one person at a time then I'd have to say that's pretty sad. Luke is childish, and he needs to evolve. He's stuck in that shell of his and he seems to have no idea how to relate to people. He wasn't "in it" and she could see that. The choatic mess that ended last season made no sense but that's beside the point. Everything that's happened to Lorelai since Partings has been nuts and any reconciliation between her and Luke would be untimely and overshadowed by the events that have taken place.

And to the rest: I'm sorry, but saying last night's episode was the best you've seen all season is like saying one rotten fish smells better than the others, they all stink.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: clumsy_cardhouse on February 14, 2007, 11:54:56 am
I mean Lorelai and Christopher! Oops!

If you need, you can go back and edit your posts when you make a mistake.   ;D

Just click on "Modify" on the upper right of your post.


Thanks!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 14, 2007, 12:13:04 pm
Well, Luke and Lorelai have both gotten deeper this season. Luke has always been there for the people he loved, but it seems he loves a lot more people these days, and he's a lot nicer about it.

Likewise, Lorelai has had a big 2x4 to the head with "Wait until your feelings are congealed before you jump" written on the side. She might get "pine" tattoo'd on her butt as a reminder. Getting over a thing and moving on is a little lower on the ol' priorities list, if you know what I'm saying.

Maybe she will not be in such a hurry to rush into things with Luke again after this. That's a complicated anticipation, though!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: xxLL4Everxx on February 14, 2007, 12:53:27 pm
I want Lorelai to "jump" to Luke but I want it to be romantically. Maybe an episode or two to make up her mind on who she wants to be with and then make up her mind and go for it. (When I say Make up her mind I mean think about Luke) Chris by himself is cool but Chris with Lorelai makes me want to scream. It's just that he broke up a couple we waited 4 years for! It's not cool!   :-\


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: JavaJunkie52 on February 14, 2007, 12:58:29 pm
I did not like how Cameron called luke and lorelai fans lukelais in his intreviews! if he knew anything about the show and the fans he would know that it Java Junkies. i have never heard what he called tham inmy life! lol. i just wanted to point that out.


Crickey -- give the guy a break. Just because he doesn't know all the Gilmore Girls lingo doesn't mean you have to get all bent out of shape. Him not knowing what a java junkie is doesn't make him any less of an actor. It was a good interview to read. He took time to partake in it and as a supposed fan, you should be thankful that someone involved with the show -- at whatever capacity -- is kind of to interact with a fansite. Plus Lukelais is a fun wood anyway. You should do like Cam said and chillax.

-MK
sry i didnt mean to come off that way i was just commenting its not like i have a grudge against him or something stupid like that for calling luke and lorelai lukelais.....i wasnt freaking. you made it sound like i was with the whole chillax thing....so yeah it was just a comment dont hate me or anything :)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Lauren is my idol on February 14, 2007, 01:38:43 pm
OMG Lauren's acting was amazing in this epi! I'm glad that she and chris are splitting up, but I hate the fact that it makes her so sad. She was happy with Chris, well tried to be, but she knows that Luke is the right one.
I liked how Logan was telling Rory that she only had a 'crush' on the teacher, and didnt go off about it.
Wow, you never hear Michel yell! In this epi he was just going at it lol. But when Lorelai snapped at him, I thought she was reacting very well. He was all up in her face and she just had to do something about it. Now, Michel's reaction to that was reasonable because he had no idea that Lorelai and Chris were haing relationship problems. I think that Lorelai should have told Rory what was going on though.
The very last scene of this epi made me cry. Lauren is an amazing actress and she makes it seem so real! But the end was sad, although I am happy that they're finally splitting up.

Overall, I thought this was a good epi!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: uncledub on February 14, 2007, 01:41:17 pm
good episode. David & Lauren's acting was great. the first scene in the hospital was good. The rory/ta crush thing was a decent plottwist, obviously nothing serious was going to happen, but ye. Yanic's acting was really good, the michel scenes was really good. the only one i didn't like in this episode was paris, she was a bit un-paris-y.

Luke is childish, and he needs to evolve. He's stuck in that shell of his and he seems to have no idea how to relate to people. He wasn't "in it" and she could see that. The choatic mess that ended last season made no sense but that's beside the point. Everything that's happened to Lorelai since Partings has been nuts and any reconciliation between her and Luke would be untimely and overshadowed by the events that have taken place.

Nail. Head. Hit, i cannot stand anymore of this inane write-up of Luke, he is just as childish as Christopher, even more infact.

and also, I still doubt the reunion of Lorelei & Luke is going to happen until episode 18 or so.
Just ask yourself, would you take back the woman that cheated on you after you didn't want to marry her (yet*), even though you have feelings for her?

No. and if it would, it would take a long time.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: steph_ on February 14, 2007, 01:44:48 pm
OMG~ This episodewas filled with DRAMA BABY! drama drama drama!

Rory and Logan: I love how supportive Logan was, and he didnt spaz or anything when Rory told hm of her new teacher. LOGAN doing that showed how much he trusts rory and that is a great quality of a lasting relationship. and RORY telling logan is a sign of worry, that she really wants and loves logan. THIS Is what chris and lor neded of have to make their relationship work. CHRIS/LOGAN trusting Lor that even tho she has feelings for Luke, she wont do anything, just silently crush from afar, i mean our crushes never stop! and LOR/RORY, to alwyas tell the minute you feel it, so it isnt such a big deal later ie. the letter. this is an example of a perfect perfect relationship.

Lorelai and CHris!: Im HOPing thier over! I want Lorelai to rush into Lukes and kiss him, and then break up, and then Emily and Richard to grace Luke like they did to Chris! It's awesome! But its weird, I yet want Lorelai and Chris to work it out! I am mixed- in my heart i want luke and lorelai forever, but somehow i dont know why something in my brain is telling me that i want them to work out it out... i dont know why... maybe cz chris is rorys father or because i always feel bad no mattar which one ends up not getting lorelai...

LORELAI AND LUKE FOREVER!!!

-steph


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 14, 2007, 02:03:26 pm
...but Christopher set her free. I thought it was a nice redemption for him.

But Christopher set her free- That is really well put.  In last night's episode, Chris definently set Lorelai free.  Last night I really felt bad for Chris, and obviously it took A LOT for him to let Lorelai go.  I've liked Chris throughout the show, even though I do prefer L/L together.  But I'm just glad that it ended the way it did last night rather than a big blow out. 

Great word "set free!"  Now she does not have to hold back her true feelings anyone. This is all I had hoped for as well a good ending to their marriage. I was so worried they were going to end in huge fight.  Lor and Chris have been through way to much to and I would have hated to see all that thrown out the window.  I am glad the writers took time to think about how they wanted to end this one.  Even though Chris may not of been there for everything little thing in Lorelai and Rory's life, he cares about them deeply and I believe he showed it in this episode in regards to Lorelai. I wonder if Chris is going to be in anymore episodes or if this is truly the end, and he may only be mentioned in future episodes???


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Gilmore-Fan-13 on February 14, 2007, 02:10:07 pm
It was sad in this episode that Michel's dog Chin Chin died.  It was funny when there was other dogs at the funeral.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: rorywannabe.lolly on February 14, 2007, 02:33:09 pm
   I can not be any happier!!! I am soooooo glad that Lorelai stood up for herself! I found Chris's "understanding" of how Lore feels a little fake considering the way he's been acting. But still, I'm glad that we can finally move past it. I can't wait to see how Lore and Luke get together, especially since he still hasn't realised that HE was the one who screwed up in the first place. I am in no way defending Lorelai's reaction to the breakup, but it really was the guy's fault.
  Rory's "crush" was just hilarious! It was so funny to watch her get all flustered over her professor. Logan is so sweet, the way he handled it really proves that he's growning up.
  May Chin Chin rest in peace. That funeral has got to be the most elaborate one I've EVER seen for a dog.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 14, 2007, 02:36:59 pm
So I went back watched the episode again.  I have a new thought.  Someone mentioned a few pages back about all the song titles that Lorelai was naming off while in the music store.  During the scene in the middle of all the titles she says, "my heart cannot decide"  I loved how that was thrown in with all the other song titles.  It really showed how much was on Lorelai's mind even while planning the funeral. 

During the funeral seen I thought I saw Lane.  Did anyone else notice her in the crowd of people for the funeral??



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: jamhandsmom on February 14, 2007, 02:41:20 pm
One thing I noticed is that Lorelai told Sookie that Luke was distant and uncommunicative and didn't want to marry her. But I would say that he was only those things as they related to his relationship with April. It wasn't good, but I don't think he was distant in his relationship with Lorelai otherwise. I think they struggled to communicate, but they did communicate. And I think he very much wanted to marry her. He was already looking at the Twickham house and talking about "the kids" before she proposed, and before April came along he indicated more than once that he wanted to get on with the wedding. All of this makes me hope that his losing Lorelai was a wake-up call for him, that he'll realize he needs to include her in all of his life, even the parts he doesn't understand or have figured out. But it also makes me think that he's not hopeless when it comes to relationships.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: snicklefritz on February 14, 2007, 02:48:00 pm
So I went back watched the episode again.  I have a new thought.  Someone mentioned a few pages back about all the song titles that Lorelai was naming off while in the music store.  During the scene in the middle of all the titles she says, "my heart cannot decide"  I loved how that was thrown in with all the other song titles.  It really showed how much was on Lorelai's mind even while planning the funeral. 

During the funeral seen I thought I saw Lane.  Did anyone else notice her in the crowd of people for the funeral??



yeah i saw her too!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: cutie314 on February 14, 2007, 02:55:42 pm
Does Lauren Grahm deserve a grammy or what!! Dang
Well....my thoughts.....I would have loved to see Paris belly dancing, that would have made my night!
When Chris said something like "it took me 20 years to get you to say yes and now that were married i still feel like im asking you" wow, oh and the fight at the Inn, I was sooo happy that she just walked out after leaving him speechless over her words.
That doggy funeral almost made me cry, and then did when i saw her standing agaist the wall about to cry... i hate parts that make me cry... not really actually i love them.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: echoia on February 14, 2007, 03:17:55 pm
Luke had some major problems... . The whole April issue was entirely ridiculous and Luke dealt with it abominably. He finds out and then he keeps it from her, which makes no sense at all. Why would Lorelai ever react negatively to the news? Why would she judge? She had a daughter when she was 16 and raised her all by herself. The only thing Lorelai would be hurt or angry about would be him concealing it from her... .

That's not true that the only thing she would be hurt by would be him concealing it. It was a HUGE change to his life, and they were getting ready to be married. It would have hurt her. Their lives were already entwined and set. Her child was grown already and he had known her daughter as long as he'd known Lorelai. His hiding it made a big problem bigger, then shutting her out once she knew kept delaying her being able to be involved in his life fully and kept making something that already was scary for her even bigger and badder than it was to start with.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: baileysmit on February 14, 2007, 03:28:51 pm
i found it really funny when Rory told Logan that she had a crush on the sub. for Richard and Logan said it was fine.  i would love to have seen Paris belly- dancing.


it was the best eppy ever


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: jamhandsmom on February 14, 2007, 03:36:41 pm


You make some valid points about Christopher and I do agree with some of what you say, but I hope you're not focusing all of the negative on Chris. Luke had some major problems during their relationship and you shouldn't ignore that. The whole April issue was entirely ridiculous and Luke dealt with it abominably. He finds out and then he keeps it from her, which makes no sense at all. Why would Lorelai ever react negatively to the news? Why would she judge? She had a daughter when she was 16 and raised her all by herself. The only thing Lorelai would be hurt or angry about would be him concealing it from her, which is exactly what he did. And then she finally does find out and he's insanely happy about the idea of postponing their wedding. For a guy who's been pining away for her for years and years he sure was quick to put her on the shelf/backburner.

It makes no sense. She's a mother, a great mother, why wouldn't he have asked for her help sooner? If the guy is unable to focus on more than one person at a time then I'd have to say that's pretty sad. Luke is childish, and he needs to evolve. He's stuck in that shell of his and he seems to have no idea how to relate to people. He wasn't "in it" and she could see that. The choatic mess that ended last season made no sense but that's beside the point. Everything that's happened to Lorelai since Partings has been nuts and any reconciliation between her and Luke would be untimely and overshadowed by the events that have taken place.

Actually, Luke sort of answered that in 6.20 when they were shopping and he was picking out a birthday present for April. He said as soon as she got involved April would like her better and he'd be out. If that was all there was to it, I'd say he was being stupid. But I think it spoke to a deeper issue of control. You have to admit--Lorelai is stubborn, controlling, and doesn't take no for an answer. Additionally, every time Luke has disagreed with a parenting issue, she's played the "I've raised a kid already so I know more than you" card. I think Luke wanted to establish a relationship with April that was free of Lorelai's control, and he didn't know how to do that (because he always lets her walk all over him) except by shutting her out altogether. I'm not defending him, he definitely shouldn't have done it the way he did, but to some degree it was understandable.

Now that Luke's relationship with April is legally established and emotionally solid, it doesn't mean that he's no longer going to deal with things passive-agressively, or that Lorelai isn't going to be controlling or give him ultimatums out of the blue, but the April situation was far more sensitive (relating to adding a new family member) than most marital issues.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: mhmm on February 14, 2007, 03:45:16 pm
One thing I noticed is that Lorelai told Sookie that Luke was distant and uncommunicative and didn't want to marry her. But I would say that he was only those things as they related to his relationship with April. It wasn't good, but I don't think he was distant in his relationship with Lorelai otherwise. I think they struggled to communicate, but they did communicate. And I think he very much wanted to marry her. He was already looking at the Twickham house and talking about "the kids" before she proposed, and before April came along he indicated more than once that he wanted to get on with the wedding. All of this makes me hope that his losing Lorelai was a wake-up call for him, that he'll realize he needs to include her in all of his life, even the parts he doesn't understand or have figured out. But it also makes me think that he's not hopeless when it comes to relationships.

Other people have mentioned this as well and I'd have to say I agree.  The line about him not wanting to marry her really irked me.  She said it in one of the first episodes this season and it bothered me then too.  He never said he didn't want to marry her, he just needed time to figure out the whole April situation and he even showed up the next day at her house to elope...how is that not wanting to marry  her?  I think Luke Danes Fan mentioned on another thread that people are forgetting that Luke was supportive about the fact that Lorelai didn't even want to set a wedding date until things were fine between her and Rory...I don't know why it would be okay for her to wait to set a date and it not being okay for him to want to postpone the wedding (her suggestion by the way) until he's figured out what was going on with his own daughter. 

Also, Lorelai wasn't very communcative during that whole time either.  She only voiced her displeasure/insecurities about everything maybe twice and the second time was in the form of an ultimatum.  She shouldn't have suggested to postone the wedding if she didn't actually mean it.  And she should have spoken up if she was feeling left out or whatever she was feeling about Luke keeping April from her.

About the episode...not really sure what I think.  I thought it was a pretty good episode, one of the better one's of the season.  I might have to go back and watch it again...I thought they handled the break up well enough...I don't necessarily think that there was any closure (or at least the closure that I was hoping for).  Luke was a big part of why Chris was having issues in their relationship, not because he realized that they just weren't meant to be.  He admitted that he rushed things and basically took advantage of her vulnerability, which didn't give them a chance at having a real relationship which is what has always been in the back of both of their minds...the what if's...I don't think them ending it like this has answered their questions.  I know they tried with Sookie asking Lorelai, "what if there was no Luke?", but there is and that has to be in the back of Lorelai's mind somewhere when she's anwering that question right?  In any event, I'm gonna have to watch it again to have a better opinion on the break up.

I really enjoyed the opening scene it was great, I loved how Richard went along with Lorelai's little bit. 




Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 14, 2007, 03:46:26 pm
Luke had some major problems... . The whole April issue was entirely ridiculous and Luke dealt with it abominably. He finds out and then he keeps it from her, which makes no sense at all. Why would Lorelai ever react negatively to the news? Why would she judge? She had a daughter when she was 16 and raised her all by herself. The only thing Lorelai would be hurt or angry about would be him concealing it from her... .

That's not true that the only thing she would be hurt by would be him concealing it. It was a HUGE change to his life, and they were getting ready to be married. It would have hurt her. Their lives were already entwined and set. Her child was grown already and he had known her daughter as long as he'd known Lorelai. His hiding it made a big problem bigger, then shutting her out once she knew kept delaying her being able to be involved in his life fully and kept making something that already was scary for her even bigger and badder than it was to start with.

I think both of you have a point here.  Luke never should have hide April from Lorelai, it was wrong and by doing this I think Lorelai was thinking wow the man I am suppose to marry didn't even tell me he had a daughter.  If he had told her earlier it would have made it easier on Lorelai and she would have processed the fact that something new would be brought into their lives.  But he didn't tell her and once she found out, Luke kept April away. That is a lot to handle.  Is the worst of both worlds.  She had to sit back and wait for Luke to develop a relationship before she could be apart of it.  As echoia said their lives were set and ready to move forward.  Lorelai was busy planning the wedding of her dreams while Luke was hiding a daughter he had know about for a month. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: jamhandsmom on February 14, 2007, 03:55:47 pm

Also, Lorelai wasn't very communcative during that whole time either.  She only voiced her displeasure/insecurities about everything maybe twice and the second time was in the form of an ultimatum.  She shouldn't have suggested to postone the wedding if she didn't actually mean it.  And she should have spoken up if she was feeling left out or whatever she was feeling about Luke keeping April from him.

Right! And how crazy would that be, one minute he has no clue where she is, she hasn't spoken to him or returned his phone calls in days, and the next minute she's demanding that he leave immediately and elope or they're through. If she'd given him a week, or even 24 hours to get things figured out, and not been so desperate, the outcome might have been different.

But of course, she's Lorelai.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: rose_83 on February 14, 2007, 04:00:01 pm
i'm just so happy about tuesday's episode... glad that lorelai finally told Chris how she felt and that she doesn't want to be in the marriage... i hope she goes back to luke!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 14, 2007, 04:03:39 pm
Well, of course her feelings for Luke figured in, but as she said, if it were just that then time would heal the marriage. Christopher was always a possibility for her that when fully realized, turned out to be an impossibility.

Michel's funeral for Chin-Chin also had cosmic importance. If Michel represents Lorelai's inner child who hurts so much and needs so much attention, his tantrum over Chin-Chin's death outweighing Lorelai's marriage falling apart makes perfect sense. Lorelai was still angry about Christopher's disappearing act at the hospital, but there was bigger stuff going on, at least in his mind. Yeah, I know "Richard could have died" but he showed up as soon as he heard over the noise of his marriage crumbling. He was also in such a bad place, he couldn't have been there for her if he'd stayed. She didn't know then, she did at round two. I guess it makes a difference.

Forget the L's fault/L's fault for a second. The point of the speech wasn't to recriminate Luke it was to point out that she broke up with him because she felt incompatible with him, not because she was secretly pining for Christopher.

Laying them out side-by-side like that made it seem like she was evaluating Christopher with the same scale she used to judge Luke: The latter was too uncommunicative for her to relate to his depths, and the former was too overemotional for her to defend herself against his feelings.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 14, 2007, 04:05:55 pm
You make some valid points about Christopher and I do agree with some of what you say, but I hope you're not focusing all of the negative on Chris. Luke had some major problems during their relationship and you shouldn't ignore that.

Was Luke perfect? No. But he wasn't like Christopher. His motives weren't selfish and childish.

The whole April issue was entirely ridiculous and Luke dealt with it abominably. He finds out and then he keeps it from her, which makes no sense at all. Why would Lorelai ever react negatively to the news? Why would she judge? She had a daughter when she was 16 and raised her all by herself. The only thing Lorelai would be hurt or angry about would be him concealing it from her, which is exactly what he did. And then she finally does find out and he's insanely happy about the idea of postponing their wedding. For a guy who's been pining away for her for years and years he sure was quick to put her on the shelf/backburner.

This is the big thing that people keep pointing out about Luke. I re-watched Season 6 just recently and it wasn't that bad. Luke found out life altering, news. He wasn't sure how to react himself, it took him 2 months to rap his head around the whole thing. Remember he wasn't secretly seeing April for 2 months. The day before Lorelai found out, was the first time he met with April. He went to tell Lorelai, but she came down in her wedding dress and was all nervous that it was all too easy, so he didn't want to upset her. Then the next day he called Lorelai and he told her, that he needed to talk with her, and he wanted to do it in person, Lorelai said she couldn't and told him she would see him that night. April came to the diner and a little later, Lorelai shows up. After her and Luke talk about it, Lorelai needs time to think about it, and after talking it out with Rory, not Luke, she realizes he wasn't keeping anything from her, but was trying to come to terms what just hit him, and she was ok with it.

Luke needed sometime to get things settled with April, and Lorelai understood, just as Luke understood that she couldn't even think about planning the wedding until everything was ok with her and Rory. In the end it was Lorelai's own doubts that ruined her relationship with Luke, not what Luke did, he reassured her that he wanted to marry her, but her fears, coupled by her lies to EMily, and her being jealous of Christopher was the reason why she gave Luke an ultimatum, knowing he doesn't deal with them well, and then on top of that she drops the Anna bomb on him.

It makes no sense. She's a mother, a great mother, why wouldn't he have asked for her help sooner? If the guy is unable to focus on more than one person at a time then I'd have to say that's pretty sad.

He knows that she is a great mother. He wanted to be a great father. He needed to see if he can do this, he didn't want to have to rely on Lorelai, or anyone, he needed to know that he could be April's father. At the sametime he thought, Lorelai is perfect, everyone loves her, and April will love her more then she would him, that when she came to visit him, it would be all about Lorelai, and not him, he would loose his daughter before he got her. He eventually realizes that he needed help and he called Lorelai, and he was ok with her being with his daughter. Anna wasn't ok with it, and he told her that, and said he took the blame for it. He never told her she was out again, he said he would take care of it, that's all. Lorelai ducked Luke, she lied about  Dragonfly meeting. She went to speak to Anna, without telling Luke. She avoided him by sleeping at Sookie's house. She had Miss Patty lie to him about where she was. She ignored his numerous phone calls. Then out of nowhere she drops everything on him.

Luke is childish, and he needs to evolve. He's stuck in that shell of his and he seems to have no idea how to relate to people. He wasn't "in it" and she could see that.

Luke was trying to be there for his daughter. How is that childish? Luke thought about their future, when he remodeled her house, so she didn't have to move. Luke accepted the fact that Christopher was always going to be in her life and was ok with it, as long as she is honest with him, like when she told him that Christopher and her would be attending Rory's Editor forum thing. Just because he wanted to get his life with his daughter situated before he got married, doesn't make him childish, it makes him mature.

The choatic mess that ended last season made no sense but that's beside the point. Everything that's happened to Lorelai since Partings has been nuts and any reconciliation between her and Luke would be untimely and overshadowed by the events that have taken place.

I don't think so. Because no matter what happened to them ultimately Lorelai and Luke can get pass it, and remember who they are, and what they mean to each other. When one is in trouble, or just needs someone, they know that no matter what happened the other one will be there for them. Luke realized that when April was sick, and when he needed the letter. Lorelai realized it when she heard Rory tell April about her relationship with Luke, and when Luke came to the hospital without being asked. They will get through it and be stronger, just like they were the last time they broke up, but I think this time they won't let anything get in their way, they will get married fast.

And to the rest: I'm sorry, but saying last night's episode was the best you've seen all season is like saying one rotten fish smells better than the others, they all stink.

This was the best, because for once Lorelai was Lorelai again.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 14, 2007, 04:13:32 pm
He never said he didn't want to marry her, he just needed time to figure out the whole April situation and he even showed up the next day at her house to elope...how is that not wanting to marry  her?  I think Luke Danes Fan mentioned on another board that people are forgetting that Luke was supportive about the fact that Lorelai didn't even want to set a wedding date until things were fine between her and Rory...I don't know why it would be okay for her to wait to set a date and it not being okay for him to want to postpone the wedding (her suggestion by the way) until he's figured out what was going on with his own daughter.  

First I think the fact that he had to think about it for 12 hours (or 24 or however long it was) sort of says he wasn’t sure (he was eventually, but by then it was too late and really who’s to say his offer to elope wasn’t simply to keep her in his life in some shape or form period, I’m sure I’m going to hear all about why it wasn’t, it’s just a suggestion).  When you know you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you know, you're sure, there's nothing to think about.  He was sure enough to accept the proposal, agree to Lorelai’s plans, etc. but when it came down to now or never right that moment he couldn’t say ‘now’.  

I think a big difference between Lorelai wanting to wait until things were settled with Rory and Luke wanting to wait until things were settled with April, is that the Rory hold-time (that’s what I’ll call it for now) had a definitive end.  Whenever Rory and Lorelai made up L/L would start to plan the wedding.  Now, there was no telling when that would be but both Lorelai and Luke knew that whenever it was they would start moving forward with the planning.  The April hold-time didn’t have and end.  The end was whenever Luke felt it should be, not a specific event.  He could have said, let me get set with April and have her in my life for a few months, or let me wait until we have a definite visitation arrangement.  But there was no defining point that would start the planning again.  That’s hard to deal with alone but throw on top of it the fact that he doesn’t want Lorelai to be a part of that settling in and it’s like closing to door to that part of his life so she couldn’t even begin to see when it was settled to his satisfaction.  And she had a point, making sure things were settled with April should have been about making sure they were settled with L/L as a couple not Luke as a single dad and then have to adjust all over again when they got married.

I feel for him not wanting Lorelai involved because April would like her better, I really do, but it doesn't excuse anything for me.  And it’s the same thing with the character reference.  Hiding the situation makes it seem like there is something to hide.    

I’m not trying to ignore the fact that Lorelai shares a part of the blame for the demise of their relationship but I get tired of talking/typing about L/L so that’s it for now :)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 14, 2007, 04:16:12 pm
*edit
Taking mine down because laurla's answer is so much better. I agree!

So it's not a Star-Post, how about that Sookie! I think she finally figured out where Miss Patty is getting all her information.

And I liked the way Rory's Crush drew a parallel back to Sookie's vegetable man crush. I hadn't really thought of it that way at the time, but it was almost exactly the same story line, except Sookie was a little smoother around the guy. And I think the addition of "Been with Logan a reeaaalllly long time now" adds a little to Rory's side story and it's conclusion.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 14, 2007, 04:21:25 pm
I buy him wating to think about it too, two months is an extremely long time just to think about it.  But see when your married you’re in it together.  Maybe all relationships aren’t like that but considering how involved Luke was with Rory (even though we’re only finding out the true extent of it this season, SSS) it’s only natural to assume that Lorelai would be as big of a part of figuring things out with April.

ETA: Argh, this was a response to your's lessa, but I guess it's in addition to what I already said so I'll leave it.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: xxLL4Everxx on February 14, 2007, 04:22:25 pm
Luke wanted to marry Lorelai but he had a daughter that he hadn't known about for twelve years! I don't think it is right that it is okay if she can postpone the wedding when she has issues but he can't. The whole April situation was new for him and he was wrapping his head around the situation and Lorelai didn't respect that. She moped about it and didn't talk to him. It wasn't him that was uncommunitive. It was her. She didn't tell him that she was being bothered by not seeing April so it's her own fault. She had no right to give him that Ultimatum.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 14, 2007, 04:23:12 pm
how do you become an official java junkie? and..  crap. i forgot my other question. ugh. thats annoying.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: jamhandsmom on February 14, 2007, 04:23:22 pm
Quote
First I think the fact that he had to think about it for 12 hours (or 24 or however long it was) sort of says he wasn’t sure (he was eventually, but by then it was too late and really who’s to say his offer to elope wasn’t simply to keep her in his life in some shape or form period, I’m sure I’m going to hear all about why it wasn’t, it’s just a suggestion).  When you know you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you know, you're sure, there's nothing to think about.  He was sure enough to accept the proposal, agree to Lorelai’s plans, etc. but when it came down to now or never right that moment he couldn’t say ‘now’. 
I disagree with that. Some people completely shut down when they're put on the spot, and I think Luke is one of those people. I think his relationship with April was so important to him, and he just assumed that things with Lorelai could take a backseat until he got things figured out with April. He SHOULD have let Lorelai in, and should have made getting married more of a priority, but I think he truly didn't get that it was a problem until she was screaming at him in the diner in front of everyone.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 14, 2007, 04:26:10 pm
ARE THERE ANY ANTI LOGAN HUMANS OUT THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 14, 2007, 04:29:22 pm
And how about that Christopher, admitting he wanted to seal the deal while both of their lives were clear enough to do it. It's almost like the way Lorelai wanted to seal the deal with Luke while everything in her life was so conducive to it. Emily was picking them out a house and she really liked it, for crying out loud. The stars must have been in some kind of conjunction, and he still said no! Has he no sense of destiny?

Heh, I get carried away. Nice one, Christopher, way to voice Lorelai's inner mind.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: mhmm on February 14, 2007, 04:31:00 pm
First I think the fact that he had to think about it for 12 hours (or 24 or however long it was) sort of says he wasn’t sure (he was eventually, but by then it was too late and really who’s to say his offer to elope wasn’t simply to keep her in his life in some shape or form period, I’m sure I’m going to hear all about why it wasn’t, it’s just a suggestion).  When you know you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you know, you're sure, there's nothing to think about.  He was sure enough to accept the proposal, agree to Lorelai’s plans, etc. but when it came down to now or never right that moment he couldn’t say ‘now’. 

Don't worry I won't throw anything at you for that...to take it further he could have been okay with not setting a date for the same reasons (that thought has crossed my mind).  I won't sit here and defend his actions because people have already defened them and I know I'm not gonna change anyone's mind so...

I think a big difference between Lorelai wanting to wait until things were settled with Rory and Luke wanting to wait until things were settled with April, is that the Rory hold-time (that’s what I’ll call it for now) had a definitive end.

Who's to say that the reconciliation Lorelai and Rory had a definitive end?  We didn't know how long it was going to take Rory and Loreali to work things out just like we didn't know how long it was going to take Luke  to work out things with April.  The only big difference is that aside from the fact that Luke wanted to get to know his daughter on his own (he had eveyr right, but he should have included Lorleai since they were starting a family together) is that he had Anna to consider as well.  I think she was a big part of why after Lorelai found out Luke kept April from her.  Anna didn't want April to get attached and Luke had to take that into account when dealing with the whole situation and it put him in a very tough position.  Getting to know your daughter and being with the woman you love?  How would anyone deal with that?  I certainly don't know how I would handle that kind of situation. 

I feel for him not wanting Lorelai involved because April would like her better, I really do, but it doesn't excuse anything for me.  And it’s the same thing with the character reference.  Hiding the situation makes it seem like there is something to hide.

I agree with you completely...Luke shouldn't have hide it considering just moments before he found out about her he had told Lorelai that they couldn't keep secrets from eachother..believe me in the "Java Junkie" thread (even though I am a huge fan of lorelai and Luke..I hate titles) I definitely dumped on him for this and other things.



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Devilina07 on February 14, 2007, 04:36:54 pm

I was TICKED OFF that Rory is having the hots for her teacher and like FANTASIZING ABOUT HIM (oh, and Googling him)
Fantasizing is a strong word.  She said she giggled and recommended a book.  Then Googled him.  That is NOT fantasizing.

Well, if you want to argue over one word, let me get my brontesaurous out...

I have to disagree. I don't know if you are male or female, but a girl that age, taking the time to Google a guy no doubt had a quick thought about him- that is a fantasy of sorts, because it did NOT actually happen. The fantasy was implied. It does NOT have to involve being taken and slaked, you know - just a little thought of maybe the two of them talking, or meeting again.  Simple stuff.  And Fantasizing is not such a strong word. TREASON, MURDER - RAPACIOUS - now THERE are some strong words for you.  Whore. Tramp. Lynch. Cyanide Poisoning.  there are LOTS stronger words and images that can easily inflame, fantasizing does not qualify, not for me.  Just pointing that out.  ;D  I am a little - sensative about words too, you know. I'd say, very sensative.  And besides, i know i am right - i was that age once, and i remember how it was when you looked at a man like that and he struck you like that.  I would be surprised if there is NOT more about this story line.  Very surprised.  She wants him, if i am reading her acting correctly. She probably will not act on it, but... If there is NOTHING more on it, then the writers were playing with us.  That is my opinion, just an opinion, but a strong one.
I'm not going to quibble with you over the exact meaning of fantasize.  However, the word "fantasize" is a strong word for this particular situation.  I know full well what a strong word is (the somewhat condescending tone was noted) and the ones you list do not apply to what Rory was doing.  She liked a guy upon meeting him.  She herself told Logan that she saw the T.A. and found him to be attractive.  Looking someone up on Google does not instantly equal fantasizing about someone.  At no point did she even utter a word that would signal to me that she had wistful thoughts about that young man.  Wanting to meet someone again to talk are only thoughts.

I too was once a girl her age.  Perhaps you, sir or madam, are too quick to judge.  I realize that this is only a tv show but before I were to jump to conclusions based upon what little the writers showed us, I maintain that Rory has only taken a liking to her T.A.  I leave open the possibility, since this Tucker character will be her lecturer for possibly the remainder of the season, that after a certain amount of time Rory may develop a crush.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 14, 2007, 04:39:56 pm
There is a Logan Unappreciation thread here, whiffenpoof http://www.gilmoregirls.org/forum/index.php?topic=4033.0

Ah the paralell's lessa, gotta love em, eh?

I understand that Luke shuts down when put on the spot.  But there are some times that that is not an option.  Like when Richard was in the hospital, he suffered through that the first time because it was important to him to be there for Lorelai.  Or when it was determined that April really is his father, he shut down to process but he still knew that he wanted her to be a part of his life and he acted on it while he was adjusting.  Same thing here, the stakes were high and what he stood to lose should have been more important than the fact that an ultimatum was being placed on him - deal with that later.  Even if he ran after her when she walked away it would have been a better sign that he did want to marry her.  He was on the verge of losing her for cripes sake, it shouldn’t take a whole night to ponder whether it was a worthy sacrifice.  All in means all in.

Who's to say that the reconciliation Lorelai and Rory had a definitive end? We didn't know how long it was going to take Rory and Loreali to work things out just like we didn't know how long it was going to take Luke to work out things with April.

I did acknowledge that, I should give more detail I guess.  While there was no ending time set, there was an event that marked it.  There was no event to mark when Luke would be comfortable with April.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: hmk1819 on February 14, 2007, 04:46:41 pm
hmmm..this episode was interesting.

1. the lorelai and chris split- we all knew it was going to happen. i liked the way it happened though.  i loved that line at the end when chris is like i should have known. it took 22 years just to get you to say yes..
it really makes you think. its true
im also actually glad that they got chris and lorelai together.
because i had always wanted to see them together
and when they finally got together i realized wow. luke is the one she belongs with for real

2. logan and rory
they are SO cute. and hes perfect. but they are still not right
the chemistry isnt hitting yet. one, they sound like a married old couple which when you are 22 is not suppose to happen
and 2, they have TOTALLY changed Logan. to the point where it makes me sick
he is not even remotely close to the person she originally started with
i realize that LOgan was a big jerk and that his personaly needed to be changed to get more fans
but it seems like the director is desperate for logan and rory fans or something?? so he is forced ot change logans personality
dont get me wrong. i think logan is a very sweet guy . i just hate how he has such a forced character now.

and logan being so cool about rory and crush . SO UNREALISTIC. im sorry, but to be THAT understanding of his girlfriend having a crush on someone else isj just real. i liked that part where he says he freked her out though by the whole marty thing so that part was cute
and i understand that you can be attracted to someone else and not do anything about it . and i understand logan being supportive of that because that is what good boyfriends do. but for him to be THAT COOL about it .thats just unrealistic.

and i actually liked rorys behavior around the teacher. it reminded me of the old rory and how she used to get nervous

and that scene at the book store where rory is tellin the teacher about how great the book is
and he goes im excited to read it
and shes like OH ME TOO!
PRICELESS scene
i loved it! very funny.

i didnt care about michelles dog at all. in this episode.pointless attempt at humor
?

liked the scene between sookie and lorelai when she makes her realze about chris


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: mhmm on February 14, 2007, 04:54:18 pm
Who's to say that the reconciliation Lorelai and Rory had a definitive end? We didn't know how long it was going to take Rory and Loreali to work things out just like we didn't know how long it was going to take Luke to work out things with April.

I did acknowledge that, I should give more detail I guess.  While there was no ending time set, there was an event that marked it.  There was no event to mark when Luke would be comfortable with April.

That's very true...while their situations are very different I think Lorelai could have been more understanding/supportive of the situation Luke was in...I'm not putting all the blame on her...I really don't agree with how he handled the situation. 


This reminds me of another thing that Lorelai said in this episode.  When she was talking to Sookie about Luke be uncommunicative and distant, she said that she did everything she could think of to make it work...I had to laugh a little bit at that comment.  If by everything she means hiding her feelings and avoiding Luke until the ultimatum then yeah, she did do everything to make things work.  I'm glad that we were able to get some insight into how Lorelai has been feeling about everything (even if I don't agree or see it her way, it's good to finally know), so I guess in that respect I really liked this episode. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovesToRead on February 14, 2007, 05:09:22 pm
First I think the fact that he had to think about it for 12 hours (or 24 or however long it was) sort of says he wasn’t sure (he was eventually, but by then it was too late and really who’s to say his offer to elope wasn’t simply to keep her in his life in some shape or form period, I’m sure I’m going to hear all about why it wasn’t, it’s just a suggestion).  When you know you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you know, you're sure, there's nothing to think about.  He was sure enough to accept the proposal, agree to Lorelai’s plans, etc. but when it came down to now or never right that moment he couldn’t say ‘now’. 

I think a big difference between Lorelai wanting to wait until things were settled with Rory and Luke wanting to wait until things were settled with April, is that the Rory hold-time (that’s what I’ll call it for now) had a definitive end.  Whenever Rory and Lorelai made up L/L would start to plan the wedding.  Now, there was no telling when that would be but both Lorelai and Luke knew that whenever it was they would start moving forward with the planning.  The April hold-time didn’t have and end.  The end was whenever Luke felt it should be, not a specific event.  He could have said, let me get set with April and have her in my life for a few months, or let me wait until we have a definite visitation arrangement.  But there was no defining point that would start the planning again.  That’s hard to deal with alone but throw on top of it the fact that he doesn’t want Lorelai to be a part of that settling in and it’s like closing to door to that part of his life so she couldn’t even begin to see when it was settled to his satisfaction.  And she had a point, making sure things were settled with April should have been about making sure they were settled with L/L as a couple not Luke as a single dad and then have to adjust all over again when they got married.

I feel for him not wanting Lorelai involved because April would like her better, I really do, but it doesn't excuse anything for me.  And it’s the same thing with the character reference.  Hiding the situation makes it seem like there is something to hide.   

I’m not trying to ignore the fact that Lorelai shares a part of the blame for the demise of their relationship but I get tired of talking/typing about L/L so that’s it for now :)


I agree with you 100%.  The situation with Rory and Lorelai had a clear event that would end it.  The situation with April was so up in the air, Lorelai had no way of knowing what would be the deciding factor in that finally ending.  And I agree that Lorelai definitely carries some of the blame for the end of their relationship and also that I sympathize with his reason for keeping April from Lorelai but it doesn't excuse anything for me either.  Especially considering that he was letting the rest of the town get to know her.

and logan being so cool about rory and crush . SO UNREALISTIC. im sorry, but to be THAT understanding of his girlfriend having a crush on someone else isj just real. i liked that part where he says he freked her out though by the whole marty thing so that part was cute
and i understand that you can be attracted to someone else and not do anything about it . and i understand logan being supportive of that because that is what good boyfriends do. but for him to be THAT COOL about it .thats just unrealistic.

I disagree completely.  I think it's very realistic.  He realizes that he would be a hypocrite if he got mad that she has a crush since he's had them too and he didn't want to be a hypocrite.  What about that is unrealistic.  As for his changes, they've been the result of him having to be responsible in his job and having to deal with a long distance relationship with the person he loves.  It's not like it came out of left field.  He was already starting to change (grow) after his accident and I think it's progressed in a very natural pattern.  And part of growing up is realizing that at some point, you have to trust your significant other if you want to be with them and that's what he did in this episode.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 14, 2007, 05:30:11 pm

I agree with you 100%.  The situation with Rory and Lorelai had a clear event that would end it.  The situation with April was so up in the air, Lorelai had no way of knowing what would be the deciding factor in that finally ending.  And I agree that Lorelai definitely carries some of the blame for the end of their relationship and also that I sympathize with his reason for keeping April from Lorelai but it doesn't excuse anything for me either.  Especially considering that he was letting the rest of the town get to know her.

And, Lorelai listened when Luke told her that he was in the middle of the problems with her and Rory.  She didn't think of that initially, but after he said it, it was their problem, as shown by her at least attempting to talk to Rory (when Rory was picking up trash) following his suggestion.  The only time he let her in with April wasn't about making Lorelai a part of things, but because he needed help with the birthday party, and suddenly Lorelai's "clownishness" was useful.  So, not only was Lorelai waiting for an unknown end (one that couldn't even be anticipated) but they weren't sharing the waiting process.  Not that she didn't have any share of responsibility (the uncharacteristic silence) but Luke shares some as well.


Quote
I disagree completely.  I think it's very realistic.  He realizes that he would be a hypocrite if he got mad that she has a crush since he's had them too and he didn't want to be a hypocrite.  What about that is unrealistic.  As for his changes, they've been the result of him having to be responsible in his job and having to deal with a long distance relationship with the person he loves.  It's not like it came out of left field.  He was already starting to change (grow) after his accident and I think it's progressed in a very natural pattern.  And part of growing up is realizing that at some point, you have to trust your significant other if you want to be with them and that's what he did in this episode.

I think the fact that Rory told him right away was also helpful.  The fact that she wasn't trying to hide it showed that there was nothing to hide.  He got ambushed with Jess (inadvertantly, but it still felt like that to him, plus add that the relationship was in its early stages and he was already in a downward spiral).  He found out after the fact that Rory had been hanging out with Marty and it appeared that she was hiding it (again, nothing there, no reason not to tell).  Plus, people do learn from their mistakes, and knowing that he did overreact, he was able to handle it.  Anyway, I'd hate to think every guy would have a fit if they knew that their girlfriends didn't automatically think every other guy on the planet besides them was ugly as sin.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Canuck on February 14, 2007, 06:39:13 pm
Great episode. Subtle.

The Michel side-story was funny. GG is very much a character-driven show; plot is not always necessary, and a funny side-stories like Michel's are what make this show great for me.

'Maybe we can get them to get tatoos. It'll be like we branded them'. LOL!

I like the way Chris and Lor broke up. Both were honest. I'm glad that Chris didn't all of a sudden start liking Luke; that would've been pathetic. At least this way he still has some ba lls.





Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: skftex on February 14, 2007, 07:13:52 pm
I haven't been here in forever but just saw the latest episode and wanted to make some (probably unpopular) comments.

I would have preferred the Lorelai/Chris breakup to take LONGER than it did, at least through the end of this season, but I have a feeling it was rushed because of the uncertainty of an 8th season.  Anyway, I don't believe that Lorelai doesn't love Chris or WANT him.  This is the guy she was with as a teen when she was starting to rebel against her parents, but Chris FIT into the parents life so she wasn't with him in the beginning for anything other than love (Yes, that is the romantic in me wanting to believe she loved him or she wouldn't have ever become pregnant).  I just don't believe all that off and on was just because Lorelai wanted to believe she wanted him, at least not the Lorelai we met at the beginning of the series.  So that is why I would have preferred the break up take longer, because I wanted to see them TRY to make it work and then realize it wasn't going to. 

Just because you love someone doesn't mean you can be married to them.  Maybe it would have been slow and agonizing and way too sad, but I think it would have been more interesting to me anyway.  Don't make it about one thing, make it about many things, and they don't even have to be major blowout fights or fights at all because that happens in relationships as well.  Two people who do truly love each other but who are following different paths.  It happens and although I tend to be a romantic, I also know from experience that loving someone doesn't mean you can be with them forever and just because you can't doesn't mean you just stop loving them or ever stop loving them for that matter.   That is kind of the point they were making about Lorelai's feelings for Luke but weren't applying them to Christopher as well.  So at least let us think they tried, don't make it look like neither of them know how to work at a relationship at all or even care to try.

And to surprise all of you that don't know anything about me, I'm a Java Junkie!  :D

Sharon



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: willowsprite on February 14, 2007, 07:18:20 pm
I've been thinking while reading these posts that although the writing is slanted (naturally) to show Lorelei's point of view on things, that being married to Lorelei wasn't working for Chris either.  He had a set view on what the marriage would be, and couldn't adjust to the real person he found himself with.   Lorelei too, had a set view on what marriage would be, ie Chris feeling the same on all issues --like the wedding party, and had trouble dealing with the real person.  Two fantasies collided and shattered, with nothing left to build on.

For the folks who think the show's gone on too long, I agree after a while the main dynamics are set up, and then its hard to keep the freshness, keep inventing reasons to prevent the ending we all know is coming.  Some of my other fav shows have had this problem, like Frasier.  The last couple of years were still good, better than most other shows (my opinion) but not up to their peak.  But still worth watching.  As another said, its very rare that shows are on for just the right length of time.  And to me, too long is way better than a great show cut short.  

Kudos to your articulate summary skftex --I said much the same thing in my earlier post, but way less eloquently and completely.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 14, 2007, 07:30:55 pm

This reminds me of another thing that Lorelai said in this episode.  When she was talking to Sookie about Luke be uncommunicative and distant, she said that she did everything she could think of to make it work...I had to laugh a little bit at that comment.  If by everything she means hiding her feelings and avoiding Luke until the ultimatum then yeah, she did do everything to make things work.  I'm glad that we were able to get some insight into how Lorelai has been feeling about everything (even if I don't agree or see it her way, it's good to finally know), so I guess in that respect I really liked this episode. 

I disagree with part of this.  While I do think her silence was a big part of the over all problem I find it understandable to a certain extent (just as Luke’s reason itself for not sharing April is).  She did tell him how she felt at first and was pretty much shot down and told to mind her own business (okay, that may be a little harsher than how it actually happened).  Then Luke finally let her in because of the birthday party (which I agree was because he was flailing) and it looked like they were progressing only to have Anna stomp it out.  Luke made it clear that she made the rules at the time and Lorelai, having been shot down once, kept quiet towards him about it so as not to make it worse (also agreed that under normal circumstances is uncharacteristic).  I can see that it was her odd way of trying to make it work, or at least trying to keep it from falling apart (was it everything she could have done, nope).  I’m having a hard time thinking of what part of that is unforgivable (ignoring that Christopher was involved completely).  Yes all of the hiding and deceit but all the characters on the show (Lorelai especially) wrestle with this and if she will one day be expected to forgive Luke for his closed offedness (can not think of the word I want here for the life of me, argh) he will have to forgive her for her silence as well.  And then stop repeating the same mistakes, Einstein‘s definition of insanity is repeating the same action and expecting a different outcome.   Too much?

It was a relief to at least have explained what Lorelai was thinking and conveying with all of those puppy dog looks since Paris.  While I think we all got it, I agree it was nice that it was confirmed.
 
Excellent point, skftex, that Lorelai's feelings for Christohper will not fade fast just as her feelings for Luke did not, couldn't agree more.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: stephmw on February 14, 2007, 07:46:09 pm
Was Luke perfect? No. But he wasn't like Christopher. His motives weren't selfish and childish.

He knows that she is a great mother. He wanted to be a great father. He needed to see if he can do this, he didn't want to have to rely on Lorelai, or anyone, he needed to know that he could be April's father. At the sametime he thought, Lorelai is perfect, everyone loves her, and April will love her more then she would him, that when she came to visit him, it would be all about Lorelai, and not him, he would loose his daughter before he got her. He eventually realizes that he needed help and he called Lorelai, and he was ok with her being with his daughter. Anna wasn't ok with it, and he told her that, and said he took the blame for it. He never told her she was out again, he said he would take care of it, that's all. Lorelai ducked Luke, she lied about  Dragonfly meeting. She went to speak to Anna, without telling Luke. She avoided him by sleeping at Sookie's house. She had Miss Patty lie to him about where she was. She ignored his numerous phone calls. Then out of nowhere she drops everything on him.

I'm sorry, not convinced. Keeping that kind of a secret from your fiancee just because you're afraid your daughter will like her better? I'd say that's about as juvenile as it gets. And whether or not he felt it was a valid point, it's certainly far from justifiable. Considering Luke's undeniable history of poor social skills you would think he would have jumped at the opportunity to share his feelings and get some advice. When you love someone you share your life. When something huge like that happens you should want to share it with your significant other. I can hardly stop myself from telling my boyfriend about something funny I saw on TV, how could you ever keep something so monumental a secret? There is no 2 month grace period, I'm sorry, it's too much. If he'd rather deal with things on his own then that's fine. He got his wish now didn't he?

Luke needed sometime to get things settled with April, and Lorelai understood, just as Luke understood that she couldn't even think about planning the wedding until everything was ok with her and Rory. In the end it was Lorelai's own doubts that ruined her relationship with Luke, not what Luke did, he reassured her that he wanted to marry her, but her fears, coupled by her lies to EMily, and her being jealous of Christopher was the reason why she gave Luke an ultimatum, knowing he doesn't deal with them well, and then on top of that she drops the Anna bomb on him.

The fact that Lorelai understood is fine, that's what mature adults in a relationship do (although I can't believe that Luke would have reacted as well had the situation been reversed). Perhaps she forgave, but she didn't forget. He continued to push her away, separate her from his life. As a woman I know we can only take so much, enough is enough.

Luke was trying to be there for his daughter. How is that childish? Luke thought about their future, when he remodeled her house, so she didn't have to move. Luke accepted the fact that Christopher was always going to be in her life and was ok with it, as long as she is honest with him, like when she told him that Christopher and her would be attending Rory's Editor forum thing. Just because he wanted to get his life with his daughter situated before he got married, doesn't make him childish, it makes him mature.

Once again I'm sorry, but Man Up! There's a right way and a wrong way, his way was wrong. I do not criticize his wanting to play a part in April's life. That's great, and I was happy for him. His relationship with April is not in question, I'm talking about his relationship with Lorelai. Yes, he remodeled her house, wonderful. Luke never accepted Christopher, just like Christopher never accepted Luke. When she was with Luke it was always "Chris this, Chris that, never see Chris again" and when she was with Christopher it was always "Luke this, Luke that, never see Luke again". Whether or not he said he was fine with it doesn't mean he was.

And you can't "pause" life. It doesn't work that way. I sometimes wish it did, but it doesn't. Even though you focus on one thing, other things will continue to go on around you. You can't focus all your attention in one place and hope that everything else will be all right. Life is about prioritizing most of the time; yes, April is important, but Lorelai should be just as important. And to make it all easier, he could have just amalgamated the two and then they'd all be working together. And in that case I highly doubt we would have had to suffer through this painful departure from sanity (a.k.a. Season 7).

I don't think so. Because no matter what happened to them ultimately Lorelai and Luke can get pass it, and remember who they are, and what they mean to each other. When one is in trouble, or just needs someone, they know that no matter what happened the other one will be there for them. Luke realized that when April was sick, and when he needed the letter. Lorelai realized it when she heard Rory tell April about her relationship with Luke, and when Luke came to the hospital without being asked. They will get through it and be stronger, just like they were the last time they broke up, but I think this time they won't let anything get in their way, they will get married fast.

Is this logic or just hope talking? Whatever it is, I partly agree. They do have a bond that can't be easily broken. But from all that has happened, everything I've watched I'm starting to think it would be best if they just tried to go back to their friendship. Things just seem too complicated with either man, Christopher or Luke. There just isn't that stability a relationship needs (although generally in TV Land this is due to a greater yearning for high ratings rather than happy characters; drama sells right?). For a show called "Gilmore Girls" we really seem to focus more on the guys now don't we? It seems the writers have chosen to temporarily do away with men (at least for the weeks between episodes  :-\) but I can hardly understand how any "Java Junkie" or what have you could be happy with a reunion with all that's happened. All the nasty things Lorelai and Christopher and Luke have put each other through...how can we forget that?

But that's typical of most audiences; all else ceases to exist so long as their idea of the happy couple is together. I urge everyone to truly think on that and I will say it again:

Does the end truly justify the means?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: skftex on February 14, 2007, 07:56:59 pm
Thanks laurla and willowsprite-it was bugging me so I had to come and say it.  I did read your post before willowsprite, where you mentioned counseling or something like it  but I had to go back and find it again because I had read this whole thread before posting, lots of posts get lost in my head by the time I made it to typing out my post!  You made a good point there and that would have worked too.  

Also, I know there are a few that stand against the norm in thinking on this bb, and someone in this long thread mentioned that, well the posts I find the most interesting are those that have an opinion different than my own so I get a lot of insight and maybe a different way of thinking.  I'm glad people have different opinions and I hope everyone keeps posting them.  It makes me think, and maybe I don't change my way of thinking, but it almost always adds something to my opinion  or gives me a chance to really think about why I feel the way I do.

Sharon

Merging because I didn't mean to double post:


The fact that Lorelai understood is fine, that's what mature adults in a relationship do (although I can't believe that Luke would have reacted as well had the situation been reversed). Perhaps she forgave, but she didn't forget. He continued to push her away, separate her from his life. As a woman I know we can only take so much, enough is enough.

[

Well I think I would have liked the storyline better if Lorelai had a child she didn't know about!!!  ;D  Seeing Lukes reaction to that would have been great!  (though Lorelai's would have been better)

(And yes I'm joking and I didn't think you meant that, its just what first came into my head when I read that part of your post.)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 14, 2007, 08:03:54 pm
Well, from a certain point of view, it's more like the means justifies the end. It's not tragicomedy, it's dramedy, and as realistic as it seems, it's just a metaphor. The simulated trials and tribulations (not to mention a fair amount of triumph and joy) is a learning experience, a journey that could end any one of a million places. That makes up a lot of mandated happily ever after to me, and I can't think of a single ending that could possibly ruin it all. It's in the journey, and with whom Lorelai "ends up" is just one tiny step in a really epic one.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 14, 2007, 08:06:23 pm
But that's typical of most audiences; all else ceases to exist so long as their idea of the happy couple is together. I urge everyone to truly think on that and I will say it again:
Does the end truly justify the means?

I must say you post hit home on some important points.  I have been reading all numerous post since yesterday and I think you may be the first one to say you would be happy if Luke and Lorelai just go back to being friends.  I have been thinking this as well even though I love Lorelai and Luke together.  I loved the way these characters interacted in the first 4 seasons being friends. I have always had this vision in my head of the last episode of Rory and Lorelai eating in the diner talking with Luke laughing and enjoying the company of a friend who will always be there.  That is the GG I love.  I have gotten so wrapped up in the "relationship" drama that I forgot how much I loved the friendship between Lor and Luke and even the friendship Chris and Lor have shared ( how she was there for him when his dad passed and when he needed help with Gigi, along with numerous other things throughout the years). These were the episodes that showed the true colors of these characters. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: stephmw on February 14, 2007, 08:41:46 pm
Well I think I would have liked the storyline better if Lorelai had a child she didn't know about!!!  ;D  Seeing Lukes reaction to that would have been great!  (though Lorelai's would have been better)

(And yes I'm joking and I didn't think you meant that, its just what first came into my head when I read that part of your post.)

Heh, yes, in the literal sense that does seem somewhat questionable now doesn't it? :-[ I hope what I was trying to point out got across (that perhaps Lorelai might take things in stride a bit more than Luke) but if not, my Jerry Springer-esque slip may raise an eyebrow or two. Darn these unclear emotions that poignant TV arouses.  ;D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 14, 2007, 08:50:52 pm

I'm sorry, not convinced. Keeping that kind of a secret from your fiancee just because you're afraid your daughter will like her better? I'd say that's about as juvenile as it gets. And whether or not he felt it was a valid point, it's certainly far from justifiable. Considering Luke's undeniable history of poor social skills you would think he would have jumped at the opportunity to share his feelings and get some advice. When you love someone you share your life. When something huge like that happens you should want to share it with your significant other. I can hardly stop myself from telling my boyfriend about something funny I saw on TV, how could you ever keep something so monumental a secret? There is no 2 month grace period, I'm sorry, it's too much. If he'd rather deal with things on his own then that's fine. He got his wish now didn't he?

The secret keeping I can understand.  If he first of all was shocked, and wanted time to get used to the idea (I'd say a week is an understandable time frame) but after that, the fact that he kept it a secret made it harder to tell and then the longer he waited, the harder it was because he waited.  Vicious circle.  What I agree is juvenile is keeping Lorelai separate not only from April but from voicing any input (like his word wouldn't have been the final vote) after she found out.  That's when he absolutely should have let her in.  April would like Lorelai better?  It was juvenile.  Sort of like some kid with a best friend and getting jealous when the friend spends time with anyone else.  I have to think when you reach a certain age, even if you have a knee jerk reaction that you might not be the favorite, you're intelligent and mature enough to not follow through and know that there isn't a limited amount of space for affection.




Quote
And you can't "pause" life. It doesn't work that way. I sometimes wish it did, but it doesn't. Even though you focus on one thing, other things will continue to go on around you. You can't focus all your attention in one place and hope that everything else will be all right. Life is about prioritizing most of the time; yes, April is important, but Lorelai should be just as important. And to make it all easier, he could have just amalgamated the two and then they'd all be working together. And in that case I highly doubt we would have had to suffer through this painful departure from sanity (a.k.a. Season 7).

Exactly.  People keep saying Lorelai wanted to be more important than April, that she wanted Luke to forget about his daughter.  She wanted to be a part of it.  And, she was being put on the sidelines. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: skftex on February 14, 2007, 09:04:41 pm
Well I think I would have liked the storyline better if Lorelai had a child she didn't know about!!!  ;D  Seeing Lukes reaction to that would have been great!  (though Lorelai's would have been better)

(And yes I'm joking and I didn't think you meant that, its just what first came into my head when I read that part of your post.)

Heh, yes, in the literal sense that does seem somewhat questionable now doesn't it? :-[ I hope what I was trying to point out got across (that perhaps Lorelai might take things in stride a bit more than Luke) but if not, my Jerry Springer-esque slip may raise an eyebrow or two. Darn these unclear emotions that poignant TV arouses.  ;D

Yes, your point definitely came across!  Sometimes my mind just goes off and I thought it was funny to think about Lorelai having a baby she didn't know about. I've thought GG has been very soap-operish since season 6 so I was thinking of all the soap opera stories they could borrow from with that!!  Amnesia? nah Lorelai is really her evil twin? Nah Alien abduction? Possibly. ;)

Sharon


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 14, 2007, 09:14:19 pm
Maybe she got drunk and adopted? Nah, she'd still have the baby. Too much Demerol and she forgot Rory's evil twin at the hospital? Hmm...

I also noticed Lorelai had hired a manager at the inn. It seems she was serious about making more personal time in her schedule for a family. I didn't catch the woman's name, though. Did anyone else?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: stephmw on February 14, 2007, 09:20:59 pm
Yes, your point definitely came across!  Sometimes my mind just goes off and I thought it was funny to think about Lorelai having a baby she didn't know about. I've thought GG has been very soap-operish since season 6 so I was thinking of all the soap opera stories they could borrow from with that!!  Amnesia? nah Lorelai is really her evil twin? Nah Alien abduction? Possibly. ;)

Sharon

Hmmm...yes, alien abduction, you make a viable suggestion there...although perhaps we should edit and delete. If one of the writers wanders into the forum they may read that and put it into the storyline in actuality  ;)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: HonoraryGilmore on February 14, 2007, 09:21:37 pm
Maybe she got drunk and adopted? Nah, she'd still have the baby. Too much Demerol and she forgot Rory's evil twin at the hospital? Hmm...

I also noticed Lorelai had hired a manager at the inn. It seems she was serious about making more personal time in her schedule for a family. I didn't catch the woman's name, though. Did anyone else?

i think her name was christy.... i think....


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: skftex on February 14, 2007, 09:36:56 pm
Yes, your point definitely came across!  Sometimes my mind just goes off and I thought it was funny to think about Lorelai having a baby she didn't know about. I've thought GG has been very soap-operish since season 6 so I was thinking of all the soap opera stories they could borrow from with that!!  Amnesia? nah Lorelai is really her evil twin? Nah Alien abduction? Possibly. ;)

Sharon

Hmmm...yes, alien abduction, you make a viable suggestion there...although perhaps we should edit and delete. If one of the writers wanders into the forum they may read that and put it into the storyline in actuality  ;)

 :o  You are right, deleting may be necessary!  :P


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: HonoraryGilmore on February 14, 2007, 09:41:56 pm
nah alien abduction would not be possible.. they probably would need 50 million permits from taylor!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Tipla on February 14, 2007, 09:48:41 pm

I'm sorry, not convinced. Keeping that kind of a secret from your fiancee just because you're afraid your daughter will like her better? I'd say that's about as juvenile as it gets. And whether or not he felt it was a valid point, it's certainly far from justifiable. Considering Luke's undeniable history of poor social skills you would think he would have jumped at the opportunity to share his feelings and get some advice. When you love someone you share your life. When something huge like that happens you should want to share it with your significant other. I can hardly stop myself from telling my boyfriend about something funny I saw on TV, how could you ever keep something so monumental a secret? There is no 2 month grace period, I'm sorry, it's too much. If he'd rather deal with things on his own then that's fine. He got his wish now didn't he?

The secret keeping I can understand.  If he first of all was shocked, and wanted time to get used to the idea (I'd say a week is an understandable time frame) but after that, the fact that he kept it a secret made it harder to tell and then the longer he waited, the harder it was because he waited.  Vicious circle.  What I agree is juvenile is keeping Lorelai separate not only from April but from voicing any input (like his word wouldn't have been the final vote) after she found out.  That's when he absolutely should have let her in.  April would like Lorelai better?  It was juvenile.  Sort of like some kid with a best friend and getting jealous when the friend spends time with anyone else.  I have to think when you reach a certain age, even if you have a knee jerk reaction that you might not be the favorite, you're intelligent and mature enough to not follow through and know that there isn't a limited amount of space for affection.




Quote
And you can't "pause" life. It doesn't work that way. I sometimes wish it did, but it doesn't. Even though you focus on one thing, other things will continue to go on around you. You can't focus all your attention in one place and hope that everything else will be all right. Life is about prioritizing most of the time; yes, April is important, but Lorelai should be just as important. And to make it all easier, he could have just amalgamated the two and then they'd all be working together. And in that case I highly doubt we would have had to suffer through this painful departure from sanity (a.k.a. Season 7).

Exactly.  People keep saying Lorelai wanted to be more important than April, that she wanted Luke to forget about his daughter.  She wanted to be a part of it.  And, she was being put on the sidelines. 


I don't think it is juvenile to want your kid to get to know you for yourself before Lor comes in.  she can be a huge presence.  And he wanted his chance to be a presence first.  Moreover, I think this is kind of indicative of hte way they handle things.  Maybe they can both learn from each other.  Whereas, Luke would naturall step back as he has with Rory letting Lorelai make those decisions because she was her daughter, Lorelai rushes in offereing opinions.  She does it underwraps right like ou gotta drag the opinion out of her while she is dropping 18 million hints, but she rushes in and offers her opinions.  Maybe they both could meet in the middle.  But in any event, the solution to that isn't to jump to 'marry me now or else.'  that was juvenile.  That can only end in one reaction. 

And I disagree that it the thing with Rory had an end.  They did not know when Lorelai and Rory would be talking again, and he understood that she needed to wait before setting a date.   It was dependent on them finding their way to each other.  And Luke's situation was dependent on him becoming more comfortable with April which he eventually did.  Moreover, he was also negotiation the situation with Anna who was entirely too protective.  I am not saying he wasn't wrong. Clearly, he could have handled the whole situation differently, but so could she. 



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Burtnnator07 on February 14, 2007, 09:56:32 pm
I must say you post hit home on some important points.  I have been reading all numerous post since yesterday and I think you may be the first one to say you would be happy if Luke and Lorelai just go back to being friends.  I have been thinking this as well even though I love Lorelai and Luke together.  I loved the way these characters interacted in the first 4 seasons being friends. I have always had this vision in my head of the last episode of Rory and Lorelai eating in the diner talking with Luke laughing and enjoying the company of a friend who will always be there.  That is the GG I love.  I have gotten so wrapped up in the "relationship" drama that I forgot how much I loved the friendship between Lor and Luke and even the friendship Chris and Lor have shared ( how she was there for him when his dad passed and when he needed help with Gigi, along with numerous other things throughout the years). These were the episodes that showed the true colors of these characters. 

I could be content (not necessarily happy) with Luke and Lorelai deciding to continue life as good friends, but only if there was some kind of closure to the relationship aspect. I don't want to be left in limbo, either have them all in or just friends, no in between. I would find it highly unrealistic and somewhat anti-climatic considering we've been teased with it for 7 seasons now but honestly, I'm tired of all the drama.

One of the things I miss most is the town! When Lorelai stopped going into Luke's, we were virtually cut off from the town. I miss seeing Kirk, Babette, Miss Patty, Taylor, etc. on a fairly regular basis and not just for the random 5 lines in an episode. Let's have a town meeting for goodness sake, and with Lorelai actually there! And some normal Friday night dinners! That's brings up another aspect of the show I miss...

Best friends first, mother-daughter second. Let's have some story lines revolving around Lorelai and Rory together, not just the occasional phone call or dinner. The last time anything happen with Lorelai and Rory was their seperation in season 6, and man, was that painful! Sadly, with Rory being in college, I don't see how we can go back to the combination of Rory and Lorelai interactiing with the town on a weekly basis.

So, with this post, I think I've realized I'd like to see the show end. If the writers can't come up with mother-daughter story lines, and it revolves only around the drama with Luke and Logan, let it be done. For the sake of the show, make some final decision with Luke and Lorelai; do not create any drama with Rory and Logan; let all the babies be born, and finish well.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: stephmw on February 14, 2007, 10:17:42 pm
I don't think it is juvenile to want your kid to get to know you for yourself before Lor comes in.  she can be a huge presence.  And he wanted his chance to be a presence first.  Moreover, I think this is kind of indicative of hte way they handle things.  Maybe they can both learn from each other.  Whereas, Luke would naturall step back as he has with Rory letting Lorelai make those decisions because she was her daughter, Lorelai rushes in offereing opinions.  She does it underwraps right like ou gotta drag the opinion out of her while she is dropping 18 million hints, but she rushes in and offers her opinions.  Maybe they both could meet in the middle.  But in any event, the solution to that isn't to jump to 'marry me now or else.'  that was juvenile.  That can only end in one reaction. 

And I disagree that it the thing with Rory had an end.  They did not know when Lorelai and Rory would be talking again, and he understood that she needed to wait before setting a date.   It was dependent on them finding their way to each other.  And Luke's situation was dependent on him becoming more comfortable with April which he eventually did.  Moreover, he was also negotiation the situation with Anna who was entirely too protective.  I am not saying he wasn't wrong. Clearly, he could have handled the whole situation differently, but so could she.

Uh oh, I'm still feeling a little dubious about this all. :-\ How is it not juvenile to be afraid that your *daughter* will like the woman you're engaged to more than you? Sure, April would have liked Lorelai, and she does now of course, but how would that even factor into the situation? Luke is her father. Her father, not a puppy, not a friend, not a delightful salty snack, her father. There, did I say that enough times? Anyhow, my point is that there's no detracting from that. April already had a very strong mother figure in her life and she was searching Luke out for a reason. She was looking to form a bond with her biological father, not fall under the mystical, kooky spell that is Lorelai Gilmore personified. Whether or not Lorelai would have dazzled as she tends to do, April would never have "liked her better" because she has nothing to do with the growing bond between Luke and April. They're two completely different figures in April's life, and for him to think he would have had to compete is the very essence of ignorant childishness.

One note on the debate of Lorelai's child-induced reason to postpone VS. Luke's: At least Luke knew what was going on. He was still part of Lorelai's life when everything was happening with Rory. He was there for her if she was upset and he knew the deal. If he had only allowed Lorelai to be a part somehow of the process he went through then I predict that they would still be together. Whether or not there was a time limit on the Rory thing or not, it's the knowing that mattered. He was involved.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: mhmm on February 14, 2007, 11:45:19 pm

This reminds me of another thing that Lorelai said in this episode.  When she was talking to Sookie about Luke be uncommunicative and distant, she said that she did everything she could think of to make it work...I had to laugh a little bit at that comment.  If by everything she means hiding her feelings and avoiding Luke until the ultimatum then yeah, she did do everything to make things work.  I'm glad that we were able to get some insight into how Lorelai has been feeling about everything (even if I don't agree or see it her way, it's good to finally know), so I guess in that respect I really liked this episode. 

I disagree with part of this.  While I do think her silence was a big part of the over all problem I find it understandable to a certain extent (just as Luke’s reason itself for not sharing April is). 

I wasn't saying that I didn't understand her being quiet, I did...she didn't know how to handle the situation, Luke was dictating when Lorelai would be coming around the diner when April wouldn't be there...I get that...I was just saying that I had to laugh when she said she did everything she could think of to make their relationship/engagment work.  I don't think she did.  I get that she voiced her concerns about April and the engagment, but I don't think she did it more than three times at the most (I could be wrong, I don't have the best memory).  Once when she first met April, then on the Vineyard then in "Partings" (which I don't think is doing all she could to make it work, she was kind of forcing his hand and he didn't respond well to it, but who would really with everything that had been going on).  And don't get me wrong, I think he should have gone after her and not have just stood there watching her leave, but I can't really blame him...he had been trying to reach her all day and she was purposly avoiding him.  And as I said before, she was the one who suggested to postpone the wedding not Luke...yeah he went along with it, but he thought she was okay with it, when clearly she wasn't.  As you said though, they were both to blame for what happened in their relationship, I don't blame one more than the other, I just didn't like her saying that she did everything she could to make it work, cause to me, I don't think she did.

Not sure if that made sense...I've had a few drinks so I'm feeling pretty happy right now! Happy Vday everynone!! :D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 15, 2007, 12:57:33 am

 not a delightful salty snack


Try Luke Danes, a tasty bite sized morsel that goes great with anything. ;D

Quote
Anyhow, my point is that there's no detracting from that. April already had a very strong mother figure in her life and she was searching Luke out for a reason. She was looking to form a bond with her biological father, not fall under the mystical, kooky spell that is Lorelai Gilmore personified. Whether or not Lorelai would have dazzled as she tends to do, April would never have "liked her better" because she has nothing to do with the growing bond between Luke and April. They're two completely different figures in April's life, and for him to think he would have had to compete is the very essence of ignorant childishness.

Why wasn't he worried that April might like Lane better?  He let Lane get close to April.  Lane is younger, Lane is in a rock band, Lane probably has some "coolness" factor.  Really, do people think April would actually like Lorelai better than Luke?  That she would be so shallow that Lorelai being more fun would mean she couldn't feel stronger feelings for the father she sought out? That April would say she only wanted to spend time with Lorelai and would push Luke off to the side?  What, she wanted a playmate fun chaperone more than a dad? This "she'd like you better than me" still sounds like he thought there was only so much room in her heart for affection and Lorelai would take it all.  I don't know if it's more pathetic that he felt that way about himself or about April.  Either way, it's not flattering to them.

Quote
One note on the debate of Lorelai's child-induced reason to postpone VS. Luke's: At least Luke knew what was going on. He was still part of Lorelai's life when everything was happening with Rory. He was there for her if she was upset and he knew the deal. If he had only allowed Lorelai to be a part somehow of the process he went through then I predict that they would still be together. Whether or not there was a time limit on the Rory thing or not, it's the knowing that mattered. He was involved.

Which is why the birthday party was so significant.  If Lorelai could have just given her input on a gift, even with him making the final decision, that would have accomplished so much.  But, he didn't want Lorelai involved even indirectly.  Even when April wouldn't have known Lorelai was involved.  Again, that's some powerful juju Lorelai must have.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: mhmm on February 15, 2007, 03:44:59 am
I haven't been here in forever but just saw the latest episode and wanted to make some (probably unpopular) comments.

I would have preferred the Lorelai/Chris breakup to take LONGER than it did, at least through the end of this season, but I have a feeling it was rushed because of the uncertainty of an 8th season.  Anyway, I don't believe that Lorelai doesn't love Chris or WANT him.  This is the guy she was with as a teen when she was starting to rebel against her parents, but Chris FIT into the parents life so she wasn't with him in the beginning for anything other than love (Yes, that is the romantic in me wanting to believe she loved him or she wouldn't have ever become pregnant).  I just don't believe all that off and on was just because Lorelai wanted to believe she wanted him, at least not the Lorelai we met at the beginning of the series.  So that is why I would have preferred the break up take longer, because I wanted to see them TRY to make it work and then realize it wasn't going to. 

Just because you love someone doesn't mean you can be married to them.  Maybe it would have been slow and agonizing and way too sad, but I think it would have been more interesting to me anyway.  Don't make it about one thing, make it about many things, and they don't even have to be major blowout fights or fights at all because that happens in relationships as well.  Two people who do truly love each other but who are following different paths.  It happens and although I tend to be a romantic, I also know from experience that loving someone doesn't mean you can be with them forever and just because you can't doesn't mean you just stop loving them or ever stop loving them for that matter.   That is kind of the point they were making about Lorelai's feelings for Luke but weren't applying them to Christopher as well.  So at least let us think they tried, don't make it look like neither of them know how to work at a relationship at all or even care to try.

And to surprise all of you that don't know anything about me, I'm a Java Junkie!  :D

Sharon



I agree completely...I think I posted something similar a while back before the whole comparing the Postponement vs. Not setting a date, but you really captured why I felt like there wasn't really the kind of closure I was hoping for from their break up.  I really wanted them to realize that they just weren't meant to be instead of how they ended it. 

Quote
Exactly.  People keep saying Lorelai wanted to be more important than April, that she wanted Luke to forget about his daughter.  She wanted to be a part of it.  And, she was being put on the sidelines.

Dani257, I hope you weren't referring to me.  I haven't read ever post yet, just skimmed the last few pages so you could very well be talking about someone else, if so just disregard this.  I never thought that Lorelai wanted Luke to choose her over April, I was just saying the position Luke was in he might have felt like he had to make that choice which isn't necessarily true, but considering Anna I could see why he might feel that way.

And not to go back and forth about this whole situation, because clearly no one is going to change their minds...I just want to say that I can see where people are coming from who think that it was childish of him to think that April would like Lorelai better, but at the same time, even if it's not a valid point, it's how he felt.  He was new to the whole fatherhood, parenting thing so he probably wasn't sure how a 12 year old girl would act/feel (not sure of the word I'm looking for)....which would be all the more reason to include Lorelai, but his insecurities got in the way. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: HBW on February 15, 2007, 07:30:39 am
I wish I had time to read all 15 pages before posting, but I've had a sick kid all week so these few precious minutes went to skimming and thinking about my reaction to this episode.

Walking with Richard in the hospital was cute.  I just love Emily's character.  She and Lorelai are very much alike.  They both are so entrenched in their feelings, but they also both have such sharp wit. 

This was the first episode that I liked Logan.  It was cool that he apologized for being a jerk about the whole Marty thing.  It'a also cool that he's so certain of how much he loves Rory that he is o.k. with being "hers."  He wants to belong to her.  I agree with someone (sorry can't remember who) that said this is a pretty mature attitude.  Yes it is mature but I think its a maturity that comes more from emotional security.  When you feel like your heart is completely safe in someone else's hands you want to belong to him and he to you.  Anyway, I thought it was cute that Rory was worried about the crush.  Although I disagree with Logan, I think a crush is different from just seeing someone attractive.  But her coming right out about it told him he has nothing to worry about.

I liked Logan wanting to see the the spectacle of Paris bellydancing.  :D

Frankly I was a little annoyed by the whole Chin Chin funeral thing, but Zack was funny trying to help pick out music.

Give the fact that many (most) of us want to see Luke and Lorelai back to together, it seems like the L/C  breakup happened in the best possible way.  Nobody was really the bad guy.  Lorelai seemed sincere in her desire to make it work.  Chris was a little whiny in his initial refusal to see how they could work it out, but he did come back later to talke more.  I still think it was lame that he thought it was o.k. to be out of touch for 24 hours (I guess an indication of his immaturity/selfishness). 

Anyway at their second meeting, it was really sad.  Lorelai broke my heart.  She's been holding onto this ideal for over 20 years and to discover that its not all you hoped it would be is hard. 

In conclusion to this not very insightful post, I'm glad it was a mutual discovery that they were not meant to be.   It seems that over all the years what kept Chris from being there when he should have been was the fact that he couldn't figure out what he was supposed to be to  Lorelai.  It would have been nice if they had settled this when Rory was still young to benefit from Chris wanting to "be in it."

To echo many other posters, I'm missing Stars Hollow in the extreme.  It lookis like there might be some good diners scenes next week.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 15, 2007, 07:39:50 am
First I think the fact that he had to think about it for 12 hours (or 24 or however long it was) sort of says he wasn’t sure (he was eventually, but by then it was too late and really who’s to say his offer to elope wasn’t simply to keep her in his life in some shape or form period, I’m sure I’m going to hear all about why it wasn’t, it’s just a suggestion).  When you know you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you know, you're sure, there's nothing to think about.  He was sure enough to accept the proposal, agree to Lorelai’s plans, etc. but when it came down to now or never right that moment he couldn’t say ‘now’.  

Luke was the one who suggested they elope in "A Vineyard Valentine", he was ok with eloping, but that's not the only that happened that night. You can't take that one small section and say that is all, it's not. Lorelai was ducking Luke for 2 days, no calls, no coffee, sleeping at Sookie's having Miss Patty lie for her, then she comes into the diner and just starts rambling like a mad woman. Luke takes her outside and tries to calm her down, but Lorelai just keeps on keeping on. Luke doesn't even get any answers to his concerns about her, like where she was. Then she issues an ultimatum, which she knows Luke doesn't deal with well. She didn't say "Hey let's go and get married." What she did was rant and demanded "now or never." Then before he could react to all of that, she drops the bomb that she went and talked to Anna, and Anna said they need to be married, and Luke had no idea. Then she just walks off.

Why would he elope with someone, who is clearly upset and isn't thinking clearly, because everything he is saying i jumbled up? Not to mention that after she drops the Anna bomb it sounds more like she is motivated by Anna wanting them to be married, and not her desire to. Luke thought it would be best if she calmed down, and they discussed it the next day, he didn't know Lorelai would sleep with Christopher.

I think a big difference between Lorelai wanting to wait until things were settled with Rory and Luke wanting to wait until things were settled with April, is that the Rory hold-time (that’s what I’ll call it for now) had a definitive end.  Whenever Rory and Lorelai made up L/L would start to plan the wedding.  Now, there was no telling when that would be but both Lorelai and Luke knew that whenever it was they would start moving forward with the planning.  The April hold-time didn’t have and end.  The end was whenever Luke felt it should be, not a specific event.  He could have said, let me get set with April and have her in my life for a few months, or let me wait until we have a definite visitation arrangement.  But there was no defining point that would start the planning again.  That’s hard to deal with alone but throw on top of it the fact that he doesn’t want Lorelai to be a part of that settling in and it’s like closing to door to that part of his life so she couldn’t even begin to see when it was settled to his satisfaction.  And she had a point, making sure things were settled with April should have been about making sure they were settled with L/L as a couple not Luke as a single dad and then have to adjust all over again when they got married.

I get what your saying about Lorelai & Rory, there was an event, not a time. But what did Lorelai do to achieve this event? Nothing. Her plan was to "Wait & See", let it happen. Luke on the other hand wanted to settle things with April first, which had an event, it was when they settled things, which meant when they got to know each other enough that they had things like visitation and stuff laid out and wasn't going day-to-day with it like they were doing at the time. What was Luke doing to achieve this goal? He was forging a relationship with his daughter, and he was working out schedules with Anna.

A month after they put the wedding on hold, Luke & Lorelai went to Martha's Vinyard with Rory & Logan. While there Luke & Lorelai had it out, and they talked, but Lorelai didn't bring up everything that was bothering her. Luke suggested they could always elope, and agreed that Rory should be there when they do. Then Luke does set a time table. He says they could come back to the Vineyard in the summer, get married, and rent a place for a few weeks there. That was in Febuary he told her that by the summer they will get married.  

I feel for him not wanting Lorelai involved because April would like her better, I really do, but it doesn't excuse anything for me.  And it’s the same thing with the character reference.  Hiding the situation makes it seem like there is something to hide.    

It wasn't just her liking Lorelai better though it was more about him forging a relationship with her independant of his and her relationship with Lorelai. He didn't hide the situation, though, Lorelai found out, before he got to tell her.

I’m not trying to ignore the fact that Lorelai shares a part of the blame for the demise of their relationship but I get tired of talking/typing about L/L so that’s it for now :)

I think the relationship fell apart, partly because of Luke, but mainly because of Lorelai's insecurities, and issues.

I buy him wating to think about it too, two months is an extremely long time just to think about it.  But see when your married you’re in it together.  Maybe all relationships aren’t like that but considering how involved Luke was with Rory (even though we’re only finding out the true extent of it this season, SSS) it’s only natural to assume that Lorelai would be as big of a part of figuring things out with April.

Well for one they weren't married yet. And again it didn't take him 2 months just to tell Lorelai, for those 2 months, Luke didn't know what to do, or where he stood.

We knew for a while that Luke was a dad to Rory, we saw that he was always there for her. We lso know that for a good time, it was Lorelai and Rory against the world. They had time to forge their bond. Even though Luke was there for Rory like a dad when it came to raising her, it was all Lorelai.


Luke wanted to marry Lorelai but he had a daughter that he hadn't known about for twelve years! I don't think it is right that it is okay if she can postpone the wedding when she has issues but he can't. The whole April situation was new for him and he was wrapping his head around the situation and Lorelai didn't respect that. She moped about it and didn't talk to him. It wasn't him that was uncommunitive. It was her. She didn't tell him that she was being bothered by not seeing April so it's her own fault. She had no right to give him that Ultimatum.

Exactly! They had that talk at Martha's Vineyard, Lorelai brought up that she was upset, and thought that they werent going to get married. Luke talked to her and he set a time frame for it, in the summer. That was all she said, she could have taken that time and told him that she felt like she was being shut out of his life, and that she thought she should be a part of April's life, but she didn't. She should have brought it up then, but Lorelai chose not to, so how Luke didn't know it was that big of a deal.  

And, Lorelai listened when Luke told her that he was in the middle of the problems with her and Rory.  She didn't think of that initially, but after he said it, it was their problem, as shown by her at least attempting to talk to Rory (when Rory was picking up trash) following his suggestion.  

But see there is a difference. Lorelai & Rory had those years of them against the world, they have their relationship, then Rory got older and she met Luke. Luke & Lorelai forged a friendship, and Luke & Rory forged a relationship, that was independant of his friendship with Lorelai. Then Luke and Lorelai took their friendship into a romantic relationship. So when Luke said that he was in the middle of their problems he was. His relationship with Rory wasn't that she is his fiancee's daughter, it was like a father being caught in the middle of a mother and a daughter. Lorelai didn't have a relatonship with April yet, because Luke wanted to forged his relationship with his daughter first. And Lorelai "talking" to Rory was an accident. She didn't go searching for Rory, she was driving and was shocked to see her, it wasn't planned.

The only time he let her in with April wasn't about making Lorelai a part of things, but because he needed help with the birthday party, and suddenly Lorelai's "clownishness" was useful.  So, not only was Lorelai waiting for an unknown end (one that couldn't even be anticipated) but they weren't sharing the waiting process.  Not that she didn't have any share of responsibility (the uncharacteristic silence) but Luke shares some as well.

Luke realized he was over his head and he reached out for help, for Lorelai's help. Through the party, he realized his relationship with April was good enough, and invited Lorelai to stay longer and encouraged her to bond with April. And again an end was scheduled, Luke told her the summer, which is clearer then Lorelai and Rory make up.


I'm sorry, not convinced. Keeping that kind of a secret from your fiancee just because you're afraid your daughter will like her better? I'd say that's about as juvenile as it gets. And whether or not he felt it was a valid point, it's certainly far from justifiable. Considering Luke's undeniable history of poor social skills you would think he would have jumped at the opportunity to share his feelings and get some advice. When you love someone you share your life. When something huge like that happens you should want to share it with your significant other. I can hardly stop myself from telling my boyfriend about something funny I saw on TV, how could you ever keep something so monumental a secret? There is no 2 month grace period, I'm sorry, it's too much. If he'd rather deal with things on his own then that's fine. He got his wish now didn't he?

It wasn't that he thought April will like Lorelai better. Luke wanted to forge a relationship with his daughter by himself, that's why he didn't have Anna around either, he needed time to forge a relationship with Apri that independant, one that was just about a father and his daughter. Then he was going to incorporate Lorelai, just as she incorporated other people into her and Rory's lives. He pulled Lorelai in, for her party, and Lorelai was going to leave once she had things set up for him, but he told her not to, he encouraged her to bond with April, he was ready for the next stage.

Having a 12 year-old girl comeinto your life and finding out she is your daughter, isn't a small thing like "I can't believe what happened to Meridith on Grey's Anatomy." Luke didn't know if he should be a part of her life, if she wanted him there, if he was allowed to be a part of her life. He didn't know up from down, and he didn't want to lay that on Lorelai, who was finally happy, after months of being defeated, she was finally happy, Rory was home, so instead of laying the weight on her, her took it upon himself, since afterall, he is the only one who can make those decissions. Lorelai understood the 2-month thing. Her and Rory talked about it, and they both understood and made peace with it.

The fact that Lorelai understood is fine, that's what mature adults in a relationship do (although I can't believe that Luke would have reacted as well had the situation been reversed). Perhaps she forgave, but she didn't forget. He continued to push her away, separate her from his life. As a woman I know we can only take so much, enough is enough.

He didn't push her out of his life. He just didn't want his relationship with April to be because of anyone else, he needed to get there with her on his own, just as Lorelai did with Rory. He would talk about April with her, she could have said things to him, the only thing he wanted was time alone with her to bond first. He thought she got that. When the town was watching them from Taylor's he told Lorelai about it and asked that Lorelai got that he needed time alone, and she said yeah, she could have said no, but she didn't.

Then we go back to the Vineyard. They had the discussion, yet another time for Lorelai to bring up that she is feeling left out with April, and that she would like to be included, but she didn't. .

Once again I'm sorry, but Man Up! There's a right way and a wrong way, his way was wrong. I do not criticize his wanting to play a part in April's life. That's great, and I was happy for him. His relationship with April is not in question, I'm talking about his relationship with Lorelai. Yes, he remodeled her house, wonderful. Luke never accepted Christopher, just like Christopher never accepted Luke. When she was with Luke it was always "Chris this, Chris that, never see Chris again" and when she was with Christopher it was always "Luke this, Luke that, never see Luke again". Whether or not he said he was fine with it doesn't mean he was.

Luke excepted Christopher as a part of Lorelai's life. She talked about Christopher with him, and told him things like when they met and discussed him paying for Yale. Luke was ok with it, and even said good.

Then when Lorelai told Luke about Rory's Editor forum thing, and said that Christopher was going to be there with her for it, he said ok.

Then you flash-forward to Christopher and Lorelai. He sees Luke & Lorelai talking, he gets pissed. Sookie brings over coffee, that is from Luke's and he cops an attitude. The only time Luke had a problem with Christopher and Lorelai was when he walked in while Lorelai was listening to a message from Christopher, and soon as she saw Luke she erased it. He thought she was hiding something from him.

And you can't "pause" life. It doesn't work that way. I sometimes wish it did, but it doesn't. Even though you focus on one thing, other things will continue to go on around you. You can't focus all your attention in one place and hope that everything else will be all right. Life is about prioritizing most of the time; yes, April is important, but Lorelai should be just as important. And to make it all easier, he could have just amalgamated the two and then they'd all be working together. And in that case I highly doubt we would have had to suffer through this painful departure from sanity (a.k.a. Season 7).

He didn't pause life, anymore then Lorelai did when she asked for time for her and Rory to mend their relationship, and then did nothing to achieve that goal.

Is this logic or just hope talking? Whatever it is, I partly agree. They do have a bond that can't be easily broken. But from all that has happened, everything I've watched I'm starting to think it would be best if they just tried to go back to their friendship. Things just seem too complicated with either man, Christopher or Luke. There just isn't that stability a relationship needs (although generally in TV Land this is due to a greater yearning for high ratings rather than happy characters; drama sells right?). For a show called "Gilmore Girls" we really seem to focus more on the guys now don't we? It seems the writers have chosen to temporarily do away with men (at least for the weeks between episodes  :-\) but I can hardly understand how any "Java Junkie" or what have you could be happy with a reunion with all that's happened. All the nasty things Lorelai and Christopher and Luke have put each other through...how can we forget that?

Well I think an underline factor has always been that dream for Lorelai that one day her and Christopher would get married and be a family with Rory, and now that she knows it will never be like that she can move on.

But that's typical of most audiences; all else ceases to exist so long as their idea of the happy couple is together. I urge everyone to truly think on that and I will say it again:

Does the end truly justify the means?

Sometimes it does. I like Rory with Marty, but Logan has at least grown on me and is becoming a man, something Christopher who is twice his age and has two children, still hasn't done.



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 15, 2007, 07:41:14 am
Sorry about posting twice, but this was a part of m last post, but it was too long so I had to cut it out and post it here.


Uh oh, I'm still feeling a little dubious about this all. :-\ How is it not juvenile to be afraid that your *daughter* will like the woman you're engaged to more than you? Sure, April would have liked Lorelai, and she does now of course, but how would that even factor into the situation? Luke is her father. Her father, not a puppy, not a friend, not a delightful salty snack, her father. There, did I say that enough times? Anyhow, my point is that there's no detracting from that. April already had a very strong mother figure in her life and she was searching Luke out for a reason. She was looking to form a bond with her biological father, not fall under the mystical, kooky spell that is Lorelai Gilmore personified. Whether or not Lorelai would have dazzled as she tends to do, April would never have "liked her better" because she has nothing to do with the growing bond between Luke and April. They're two completely different figures in April's life, and for him to think he would have had to compete is the very essence of ignorant childishness.

It wasn't that she would like her better, but that his relationship with April would be tied to her relationship to Lorelai. He just wanted his own relationship with April, before Lorelai entered it. That's not childish.

One note on the debate of Lorelai's child-induced reason to postpone VS. Luke's: At least Luke knew what was going on. He was still part of Lorelai's life when everything was happening with Rory. He was there for her if she was upset and he knew the deal. If he had only allowed Lorelai to be a part somehow of the process he went through then I predict that they would still be together. Whether or not there was a time limit on the Rory thing or not, it's the knowing that mattered. He was involved.

Yes it is the knowing, and he let her know on the roof that he wasn't happy being in the middle of everything. Lorelai had numerous chances to tell Luke she wanted to be a part of him and April and didn't. He talked to her about April, and she kept quiet. He asked about her understanding that he need time alone with April, and she didn't tell him no. They had the talk at the Vineyard, and she didn't ention it. Luke communicated with Lorelai his concerns about Rory, Lorelai didn't with April. Luke also discussed what was going on with April, tell Lorelai about her, but when Lorelai was going through the time with Rory, Lorelai didn't speak about it.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: javajunkie93 on February 15, 2007, 09:25:31 am
I have to say that while for most of this season I've been wanting to punch Christopher in the face (take a leaf out of Luke's book), in the final scene he almost made up for all the assholeness he's shown all season. Really, I hate him and Lorelai, but this scene was heart-wrenching. He didn't yell, he was sensitive and understanding, and it made you almost regret their breaking up, which was nice. You got the GOOD kind of depressed feeling, and you got to be excited for "the hen and the rooster." But he really was great in this scene, he was actually nice for a change, not the jealous obsessive guy he's been so far, and I actually really liked it. For me, actually, the saddest part was at the dog funeral when "My Heat Will Go On" was playing and you saw Lorelai...I don't know, but that almost made me cry for some reason. Not sure. Very moving. It was so funny though because I have many an inside joke about that song, I have a whole ridiculous interpretive dance and everything, but it was able to make me sad. This was great, they did the breakup in a really nice way that was sad even for Java Junkies but also has hope.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 15, 2007, 09:55:36 am
Luke was the one who suggested they elope in "A Vineyard Valentine", he was ok with eloping, but that's not the only that happened that night. You can't take that one small section and say that is all, it's not. Lorelai was ducking Luke for 2 days, no calls, no coffee, sleeping at Sookie's having Miss Patty lie for her, then she comes into the diner and just starts rambling like a mad woman. Luke takes her outside and tries to calm her down, but Lorelai just keeps on keeping on. Luke doesn't even get any answers to his concerns about her, like where she was. Then she issues an ultimatum, which she knows Luke doesn't deal with well. She didn't say "Hey let's go and get married." What she did was rant and demanded "now or never." Then before he could react to all of that, she drops the bomb that she went and talked to Anna, and Anna said they need to be married, and Luke had no idea. Then she just walks off.

The only way (for me) to sort it all out is to look at each occurrence individually.  When you add them all up neither looks like they did anything right since April came along.  They both share some blame, that was an example of Luke’s portion of the blame, imo.  The suggestion to elope in A Vineyard Valentine was said more as a means to pacify her concerns.  And I’d just like to ask: so it’s okay for Luke to shut Lorelai out of a part of his life indefinitely but it’s not okay for Lorelai to shut him out for two days (I think they were both wrong for these reasons)?  Tell me how that works. 

I hate to overly defend her actions because as someone else said it’s naturally written with a slant towards her side of the story but…  The way Lorelai talked to him that night is how she talks practically every day of her life (granted there was more desperation that night).  If he couldn’t keep up with it then how in the world would he be able to keep up with it for the rest of his life?  And what about future obstacles that they might have met?  When she’s going a mile a minute with worry & concern, what is he just going to walk away from it to take time and think on his own? 

Why would he elope with someone, who is clearly upset and isn't thinking clearly, because everything he is saying i jumbled up? Not to mention that after she drops the Anna bomb it sounds more like she is motivated by Anna wanting them to be married, and not her desire to. Luke thought it would be best if she calmed down, and they discussed it the next day, he didn't know Lorelai would sleep with Christopher.
 
She was upset in A Vineyard Valentine, how is that different? 

He did show up ready to elope the next day based upon her ‘clearly upset and not thinking clearly’ ultimatum so that makes no sense.  The point is that Luke asked if they really needed to figure it out that night and Lorelai said yes absolutely, not once the night was over, not the next day, right then.  And he brought up April as an excuse again.  There’s a point where a woman gets tired of hearing the same excuse over and over again.  I’ve said that I understand it from both points so I’m not sure what the argument is here.

I get what your saying about Lorelai & Rory, there was an event, not a time. But what did Lorelai do to achieve this event? Nothing. Her plan was to "Wait & See", let it happen. Luke on the other hand wanted to settle things with April first, which had an event, it was when they settled things, which meant when they got to know each other enough that they had things like visitation and stuff laid out and wasn't going day-to-day with it like they were doing at the time. What was Luke doing to achieve this goal? He was forging a relationship with his daughter, and he was working out schedules with Anna.

A month after they put the wedding on hold, Luke & Lorelai went to Martha's Vinyard with Rory & Logan. While there Luke & Lorelai had it out, and they talked, but Lorelai didn't bring up everything that was bothering her. Luke suggested they could always elope, and agreed that Rory should be there when they do. Then Luke does set a time table. He says they could come back to the Vineyard in the summer, get married, and rent a place for a few weeks there. That was in Febuary he told her that by the summer they will get married. 

It’s not about what Lorelai did to achieve the event; it’s that there was an event to mark it, period.  We’re talking about a 21 year old adult and a 12 year old girl and you can’t compare the two that way.  Had Lorelai gone in demanding changes and reparations with Rory she would have pushed her further away (not that the way she handeled it was perfect either).  And the difference is that Loerlai discussed Rory’s rebellion with Luke.  He wouldn’t even discuss April with her.  Anytime she brought anything up she was immediately shot down, how many times would you try?  Besides she was respecting his request to let him handle it on his own.  if she hadn’t kept a little quiet we’d be crucifying her for being a whiney baby and not giving him the chance to handle it.

The suggestion to elope was that they could get married in the summer at the Vineyard, not that they would be married by the summer:

LUKE: Eloping, we can do that, right? Instead of planning this whole big thing?

…LUKE: Oh, right. That makes sense. We could even come back do it here when the weather's better. We could rent a place for a couple weeks in the summer.

It wasn't just her liking Lorelai better though it was more about him forging a relationship with her independant of his and her relationship with Lorelai. He didn't hide the situation, though, Lorelai found out, before he got to tell her.

You have got to be kidding me.  Failing to tell your fiancé about a recently discovered daughter for two months???  If that’s not hiding something I don’t know what is especially considering the rest of the town knew about her.  Better yet, wouldn’t he have told her about this crazy little girl that came into his diner and took a hair sample to determine if he was her father?  How is that not worth bringing up?

I think the relationship fell apart, partly because of Luke, but mainly because of Lorelai's insecurities, and issues.

I need a drink, seriously.  I’m starting to think that you believe Luke did no wrong, and shares no blame for what went wrong, which is why I’m having trouble wrapping my head around your opinions.  Lorelai’s insecurities and issues were partially (please take a big note that I said partially) as a result of Luke hiding an entire portion of his life.   

Well for one they weren't married yet. And again it didn't take him 2 months just to tell Lorelai, for those 2 months, Luke didn't know what to do, or where he stood.
 

That was exactly Lorelai's problem, they weren’t married yet and they should have been.  From the day that April walked into Luke’s life until the day that Lorelai confronted him about it was two months. 

We knew for a while that Luke was a dad to Rory, we saw that he was always there for her. We also know that for a good time, it was Lorelai and Rory against the world. They had time to forge their bond. Even though Luke was there for Rory like a dad when it came to raising her, it was all Lorelai.
Funny, SSS was the first I’d heard of unicorns and corny birthday presents which is what I was referring to.  The fact that Luke being out of Lorelai’s life now in turn shuts him out of Rory’s life (haven’t seen them having any phone conversations, visits or anything of the nature not involving Lorelai since the breakup) doesn’t exactly make him a father-type for her.  Yes he looked out for her, got upset when it was clear Dean had a thing for her or broke up with her, but the whole town did that.  I’m not trying to demean what he’s done for Rory but to me a father figure is step-father that steps in and raises a child as his own, he did not raise Rory.

I think when Lorelai explains to Christopher that the character reference wasn’t a big deal and that it was written in a certain light in order to help Luke get custody of April says something.  I do think that for the most part it was written from the heart.  But I think she probably could have wrote a very similar letter for Babette or Miss Patty, if she needed to because she knows that they are good people and have always loved Rory, when fighting for something as huge as parental rights it would be called for. 

I have to apologize if anything I’ve typed came off too harsh, but I just don’t see things anywhere near the same way you see them, I see a two way street with two characters making some serious mistakes. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: chloe on February 15, 2007, 11:13:08 am
Ok so the episode kinda annoyed me. Whilst yeah the whole Chris and Lorelai breaking up was great an everything, Rory and the "crush" on the teacher was just sooo out of character. I just sincerely doubt that Rory would have acted that way over a guy she'd just met even if she wasn't with Logan. To me it just seemed really far-fetched.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kamakazedeer on February 15, 2007, 11:41:27 am
I thought it was far-fetched too at first but if you go back and look at the way Rory acted when she first met Dean it's kind of the same thing.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: chloe on February 15, 2007, 11:46:06 am
the way Rory acted when she first met Dean it's kind of the same thing.

Ye that is kind of true but still Rorys grown up alot and Dean was her first boyfriend so its more likely she would be slightly more akward. And also with Dean, Rory wasn't seeing someone else when she met him.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 15, 2007, 11:46:16 am
Luke_Danes_Fan you are citing her 48-hour blackout before the ultimatum completely out of context. She was also avoiding him before that, and even earlier, all the way back to "Super Cool Party People," when she told the entire town how much trouble she and Luke were having, then spent the night in a drunken coma with Christopher. (And he was in Philly, a few days after introducing April to the rest of his family.) Confronting him any sooner would have yielded an even more confusing conversation, since she hadn't seen Lynnie yet and had no idea what she wanted from Luke.

For six months, Lorelai was so out of touch with Luke's life that she had no idea how much she could depend on him. For six months he needed nothing from her except that she not break up with him. Just like Billary.

I should point out that Lorelai did not just put the wedding on hold when Rory left Yale. She proposed to him because he had the same reaction to it as she did, then shut him out of the way she handled it. End in sight or not, Luke had to watch Lorelai hide it from him and herself as she slowly fell apart under the strain of setting Rory free. She cried all night because Paul Anka had a cold and all he could do was hold her and pretend he didn't know what it was really about.

You would really think he would have learned a valuable lesson about step-parenting and being left out then, but Rory did come back without Luke giving her the Jess treatment, so I guess April will be okay without Lorelai to give her the "your mom is the most important person in your life" speech as New Mexico therapy.

ANNA: Luke, I don't know what you said to April, but I want to thank you. This morning she said she was looking forward to studying thermodynamics at Red Rock.
LUKE: Well, actually, it was Lorelai, telling her about her special bond with her daughter, Rory...
ANNA: Who? A stranger? Have you Googled her? Done an FBI background check? How often has this person been seeing my daughter? That's not normal!
LUKE: That does it, I'm suing you! I'm going to be April's mom now, darn it, I have rights!
Anna's LAWYER: I'm not touching this one. She's a Gilmore!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: monkeegirl34 on February 15, 2007, 12:06:59 pm
okay i didn't read all of your post I find some very interesting. especially the debate about lor and luke. luke has always been there for lor ALWAYS!!! yet he acted like a  jerk with the april thing hiding it from lor made no sence the writers had to come up with some conflict because there wasn't enough drama ok but couldnt they have given it a little more thought like perhaps chris always showing up and putting a damper on thing between lor and luke the whole april thing was so not like lukes charachter. He would not have hid this important fact from lor and she wouldnt have handled his hiding the fact as well as she did this is where the writers started getting off tract. be true to the charachters remember who they are and write accordingly.  Luke and lor would have got into a big fight and eventually broke up IF luke didnt tell her about april.
 Yet luke wouldnt have no reason to hide this fact in the first place. so what were they thinking then. what happend?
But this chris and lor thing should have never happened he has left her hanging too many times.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: stephmw on February 15, 2007, 12:34:50 pm
I find some very interesting. especially the debate about lor and luke. luke has always been there for lor ALWAYS!!! yet he acted like a  jerk with the april thing. hiding it from lor made no sense. the writers had to come up with some conflict because there wasn't enough drama ok but couldnt they have given it a little more thought like perhaps chris always showing up and putting a damper on thing between lor and luke the whole april thing was so not like lukes character. He would not have hid this important fact from lor and she wouldnt have handled his hiding the fact as well as she did this is where the writers started getting off tract. be true to the charachters remember who they are and write accordingly.  Luke and lor would have got into a big fight and eventually broke up IF luke didnt tell her about april.
 Yet luke wouldnt have no reason to hide this fact in the first place. so what were they thinking then. what happend?
But this chris and lor thing should have never happened he has left her hanging too many times.

I agree with you saying that some of the events that led to Luke and Lorelai breaking up were out of character and of course gratuitous drama/conflict, but that's writers for you. When they're forced to draw things out on TV, plotlines have a tendency to become very painful. And considering the changes to the writing staff I can hardly say I'm surprised at the crap they've been feeding us.

But as for Chris and Lorelai, I disagree. It should have never happened the way it did. But if the writing hadn't been so out of wack for the last season or two, it probably would have never had to happen at all.

Oh, and by the way laurla205 I thank you for posting your rebuttal to Luke_Danes_Fan. I'm afraid I don't feel I have the gumption to go on with that one. Sometimes debating with JJs is like arguing with a brick wall.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: xxLL4Everxx on February 15, 2007, 01:41:46 pm
Luke has always been there for Lorelai even when they weren't dating. They were still always friends. Now that they have broken up they aren't friends anymore because the breakup screwed it up. I really having those Lorelai and Luke scenes. The ones where Luke is flirting with Lorelai or Lorelai is flirting with Luke. I miss them and now that they have broken up from a full blown relationship they can't be friends anymore which really sucks.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 15, 2007, 02:48:40 pm
Out of character or not, these things still happened and have to be accounted for if Lorelai and Luke are to reconcile as so many desire.  And really, I don’t know how out of character it was for Luke.  I’d say it took his faults to the extreme, but the underlying faults have always been there.  Really we hadn’t seen Luke in a long term relationship prior to this (I don’t count Rachel or Nicole) so we don’t know how much he’d ordinarily hide from a girlfriend/fiancé.  When Lorelai & Luke were just friends it was easier to share things (and even then it was like Lorelai had to pull teeth to get anything out of him, like when she showed up at the diner and Nicole was sitting there and she later had to ask Luke 30 questions to find out they’d decided to try and work it out before proceeding with the divorce or when he first took Jess on and she couldn't get him to listen to any of her advice - it may have been condescending but it was still helpful), a relationship/engagement changes that a little bit.  It should have made it easier to share but with so much on the line it made it harder instead.  Same with Lorelai, her desire not to let this relationship fail was very in character and a nice change from her pattern of fleeing, but was taken to the extreme.  These extremes are completely possible when there’s so much emotion involved.  People do funny things when it comes to matters of the heart.  To borrow Dani's term, it was uncharacteristic for both of them.  But not completely out of the realm of possibility.

I have to say that I agree with whoever else said they’d like to see them as just friends in the end.  They were more fun to watch that way, I lost interest in the couple once they started actually dating.  Maybe it was that the routine of Lorelai pressing Luke and making him uncomfortable that she found fun, so I did too, and it didn't seem to bother her all that much when they were just flirting friends.  One you’re in a relationship that doesn’t seem so fun anymore.

Glad to be of service, stephmw  ;D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 15, 2007, 03:13:19 pm

Dani257, I hope you weren't referring to me.  I haven't read ever post yet, just skimmed the last few pages so you could very well be talking about someone else, if so just disregard this.  I never thought that Lorelai wanted Luke to choose her over April, I was just saying the position Luke was in he might have felt like he had to make that choice which isn't necessarily true, but considering Anna I could see why he might feel that way.

No, I wasn't referring to any particular post in this thread. None that I've read, anyway. But, this is round 15 or so of the same conversation, and in earlier rounds in other threads it has been said that Lorelai couldn't expect Luke to choose her over April.

Quote
I just sincerely doubt that Rory would have acted that way over a guy she'd just met even if she wasn't with Logan. To me it just seemed really far-fetched.

Actually, this might be exactly why Rory was so upset and felt she was a monster, because he did fluster her so much.  I still think it was equivalent to how she acted with Dean, but if it wasn't, this would be the first time that Rory got simply giddy over a good looking (to her) guy.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 15, 2007, 03:21:52 pm


I have to say that I agree with whoever else said they’d like to see them as just friends in the end.  They were more fun to watch that way, I lost interest in the couple once they started actually dating.  Maybe it was that the routine of Lorelai pressing Luke and making him uncomfortable that she found fun, so I did too, and it didn't seem to bother her all that much when they were just flirting friends.  One you’re in a relationship that doesn’t seem so fun anymore.




I was one of the people who said I wouldn't mind seeming them just friends in the end.  I really hope they get back together, but I do not see it possible if this is the last season.  When Chris and Lorelai broke up I was thinking this is great!, now her and Luke get another chance.  Now I am thinking what now. The writers cannot just rush Lorelai and Luke getting back together.  It would be hard to enjoy if this was the case.  All the battting eyes and flirting that took place between this characters was so fun to watch, but how can they bring that back into the show after everything Lorelai and Luke have been through.  The writers have a large task on hand.  All the people waiting to see Lorelai and Luke back together including me are expecting it to be this great moment, when we can all sigh and say yes finally.  But i think we have already said yes finally the first time they dated. If the writers plan on getting them back together( I have no idea b/c I am a spree) it better not be rushed b/c it could ruin so much of what I love about L and L!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 15, 2007, 03:42:36 pm
The only way (for me) to sort it all out is to look at each occurrence individually.  When you add them all up neither looks like they did anything right since April came along.  They both share some blame, that was an example of Luke’s portion of the blame, imo.  The suggestion to elope in A Vineyard Valentine was said more as a means to pacify her concerns.  

No it wasn't. After they ate and was ready to go to sleep, Luke was in the Bathroom talking to Lorelai about lobster, and when he came out he saw that she was extremly upset, she looked like she was ready to cry, and she was looking at the necklace. Luke asked if she was ok, and how the necklace was suppose to make her happy, but it's not. Lorelai told him it's not that, it's her thinking they're never going to get married. Luke and her talked it out and they were ok. They woke up the next morning, had breakfast in bed, and were talking about going to a stand as children, they were in good cheery flirty moods, and Luke brought up that they could elope. Lorelai said they could, and asked if Rory cn come with, and he said sure. Then he said they could rent a place down at the Vineyard for a few weeks in the summer for it. It wasn't to pacify Lorelai, it was a genuine gesture from Luke, because he did want to get married.

And I’d just like to ask: so it’s okay for Luke to shut Lorelai out of a part of his life indefinitely but it’s not okay for Lorelai to shut him out for two days (I think they were both wrong for these reasons)?  Tell me how that works.  

Luke didn't have a relationship with April for 2 months behind Lorelai's back. He knew about April for 2 months, and was trying to wrap his own head around it. He needed to make the decission himself, he couldn't have Lorelai tell him to have the relationship with April, he needed to do that on his own, because he wanted to. Lorelai felt threatened, and instead of telling Luke how she felt, she decided to ignore him, duck him, and hide from him. That is the difference.

I hate to overly defend her actions because as someone else said it’s naturally written with a slant towards her side of the story but…  The way Lorelai talked to him that night is how she talks practically every day of her life (granted there was more desperation that night).  If he couldn’t keep up with it then how in the world would he be able to keep up with it for the rest of his life?  And what about future obstacles that they might have met?  When she’s going a mile a minute with worry & concern, what is he just going to walk away from it to take time and think on his own?  
 

He delt with her the night Rory was locked up. He delt with her the night Rory left. She didn't drop everything on him all at once, then just leave, they sat down and talk about it. She didn't let him digest anything. He didn't say yeah, because the way she said it, it seemed more like she was doing it for other people, and not for them, and he didn't want her to regret it, look what happened with him and Nicole, and even now, what happened with Lorelai and Christopher.

Again you have to take the whole rant into consideration, she dropped more then one bomb on him, and she ran away, she didn't give him the chance to do what he does, which is to calm her down, level her head, and then discuss things, she ran. Why did she run? Because her own fears and insecurities got in her way.

She was upset in A Vineyard Valentine, how is that different?  

Because she talked about it. The two of them sat down and discussed it. She didn't ignore him for two days, then spring everything on him, run away and sleep with Christopher. That's what's different.

She had him at the Vineyard, she told him she was worried they were never going to get married, yet, she never mentioned anything about her feeling left out with April. That was the time to tell Luke, when she had him there with her, while they were discussing things, but no she let it go.

He did show up ready to elope the next day based upon her ‘clearly upset and not thinking clearly’ ultimatum so that makes no sense.  The point is that Luke asked if they really needed to figure it out that night and Lorelai said yes absolutely, not once the night was over, not the next day, right then.  And he brought up April as an excuse again.  There’s a point where a woman gets tired of hearing the same excuse over and over again.  I’ve said that I understand it from both points so I’m not sure what the argument is here.

All he said was I have April to think about. That's no different then Lorelai asking if Rory can be there when they elope. He doesn't want to get married without his daughter, anymore then Lorelai does. There is also a point where a woman needs to tell the man whats wrong beore she drops bomb after bomb on him, and she had that chance numerous imes, but she chose to bite her lip.

It’s not about what Lorelai did to achieve the event; it’s that there was an event to mark it, period.  We’re talking about a 21 year old adult and a 12 year old girl and you can’t compare the two that way.  Had Lorelai gone in demanding changes and reparations with Rory she would have pushed her further away (not that the way she handeled it was perfect either).  

She didn't have to demand Rory, but she could have made in roads. Like when Rory knew her mother and Luke were engaged and told Lorelai it hurt, she could have said sorry. Lorelai didn't have to cut Rory out of her life, that isolated Rory even more. Lorelai could have talked to Logan, to Paris. But she didn't her plan was to do nothing.

And the difference is that Loerlai discussed Rory’s rebellion with Luke.  He wouldn’t even discuss April with her.  Anytime she brought anything up she was immediately shot down, how many times would you try?  Besides she was respecting his request to let him handle it on his own.  if she hadn’t kept a little quiet we’d be crucifying her for being a whiney baby and not giving him the chance to handle it.

She didn't discuss Rory with Luke. She told him not to get involved that they were cutting her off. He knew she was hurt, but not because she told him about it. Luke did discuss April with Lorelai, about how smart sheis, how he bought the Dummies book, and was still behind, and she joked about it. He discussed her numerous times with Lorelai, he shared what they were doing, like going on her class trip. It was Lorelai who didn't want to discuss it. All Luke said was he didn't want her to get to know April yet, not until he bonded with her first. He just didn't want his relationship with her to be tied to April's relationship with Lorelai.

The suggestion to elope was that they could get married in the summer at the Vineyard, not that they would be married by the summer:

LUKE: Eloping, we can do that, right? Instead of planning this whole big thing?

…LUKE: Oh, right. That makes sense. We could even come back do it here when the weather's better. We could rent a place for a couple weeks in the summer.

He was suggesting that they get married in the summer like I said, which is a clear timetable unlike, when Lorelai and Rory mend their relationship with no effort from Lorelai. Would their relationship even be repaired now if it wasn't for Jess? And who told Jess about Rory? Ahhh yes, Luke, that's who.

You have got to be kidding me.  Failing to tell your fiancé about a recently discovered daughter for two months???  If that’s not hiding something I don’t know what is especially considering the rest of the town knew about her.  Better yet, wouldn’t he have told her about this crazy little girl that came into his diner and took a hair sample to determine if he was her father?  How is that not worth bringing up?

The rest of the town did not know about her for 2-months. April did the test in Novemember. Luke didn't make contact with April until January, and he did so in the park. That was the first time he made contact with her after finding out she was his daughter. He then agreed to let her come to the diner the next day. After being with April that day, Luke went to Lorelai's to tell her, to find that she was nervous that something was wrong, that it as all too easy, she was looking for signs that it was wrong, so he let her have her moment so she wouldn't see this as a bad sign.

The next day came and Luke called Lorelai, he told her that he needed to talk to her, and he wanted to do it in person showing that it wasn't a "Oh how are you doing?" type of conversation he needed to have. Lorelai said she couldn't until that night and Luke said ok. April shows, up, and shortly afterwards, Lorelai shows up, and April tells her that Luke is her father, something that Luke was trying to tell her earlier, but Lorelai was too busy. No one else in the town knew until after that, that's when they found out. Luke wasn't sneaking around for 2 months seeing his daughter, letting everyone, but Lorelai know about her, he only just decided to have a relationship with her.

I need a drink, seriously.  I’m starting to think that you believe Luke did no wrong, and shares no blame for what went wrong, which is why I’m having trouble wrapping my head around your opinions.  Lorelai’s insecurities and issues were partially (please take a big note that I said partially) as a result of Luke hiding an entire portion of his life.  
 

No, I never said that. I said Luke shares part of the blame. I say part because it was him not telling Lorelai about April in November that added to her fears and insecurities, even though he did it for the right reasons, he could have shared it with her. But over all it was Lorelai, who didn't speak up, even though she ha chances to, and it was Lorelai's own issues with getting married, and her being jealous of Christopher, that ultimately ended their relationship. If she would have talked about April at the Vineyard, it may not have gotten to that point. If she didn't ignore Luke for 2 days and instead talk to him about how she was feeling, she wouldn't have dropped everything on him all at once that night.

That was exactly Lorelai's problem, they weren’t married yet and they should have been.  From the day that April walked into Luke’s life until the day that Lorelai confronted him about it was two months.  

And in Lorelai's own words, her distance frm Rory, which prevented any wedding discussion lasted for "5 Months, 3 Weeks, and 16 Days", which adds up to over 6 months. That was 6 months of Lorelai not doing anything, not one blessed thing to even begin wedding talks, but Luke was there for her, and knew this is how she had to handle it, even if he would have handled it differently, he knew this was something she had to do, and how she had to do it. Lorelai told him she understood that he needed his time and stuff, and never once told him how the whole April thing was bothering her. Lorelai's problem is she didn't speak up, even though she had the chances to do so.

Funny, SSS was the first I’d heard of unicorns and corny birthday presents which is what I was referring to.  The fact that Luke being out of Lorelai’s life now in turn shuts him out of Rory’s life (haven’t seen them having any phone conversations, visits or anything of the nature not involving Lorelai since the breakup) doesn’t exactly make him a father-type for her.  Yes he looked out for her, got upset when it was clear Dean had a thing for her or broke up with her, but the whole town did that.  I’m not trying to demean what he’s done for Rory but to me a father figure is step-father that steps in and raises a child as his own, he did not raise Rory.

He loved Rory as his own. When she did well, he glowed with a father's pride, when she was hurt, he wanted to fix it, when she was sad, he wanted to cheer her up. That is what a dad does. "Santa's Secret Stuff" is the first time we heard about the unicorns, but how about everything we saw? Him baking a coffee cake for her birthday, blowing up balloons, reserving a table for her. Him being proud when she got into the Ivy Leagues. Him helping her celebrate. Him being at her party. Him being at her graduation. Him helping her move into college. Or what came out during the vow renewal, like him being there for her when she was sick, making her mashed pottatoes, him remembering that she would only eat that, and how long she would only eat it for. Those are all very Dad-like things.

Rory hasn't been in Stars Hallow that much, since the break up and when she was you saw how she was with Luke, the wave from the diner. Rory also said that no matter she stands by Lorelai, and she knew that Christopher was sensitive when it came to Luke, so she was with Lorelai by not going to Luke's, so she can have an easier marriage. But when Richard was sick, Luke didn't go there just for Lorelai, he went there to be there for Rory also. They are his family every bit as much as Liz, Jess, and Doula are.

I think when Lorelai explains to Christopher that the character reference wasn’t a big deal and that it was written in a certain light in order to help Luke get custody of April says something.  I do think that for the most part it was written from the heart.  But I think she probably could have wrote a very similar letter for Babette or Miss Patty, if she needed to because she knows that they are good people and have always loved Rory, when fighting for something as huge as parental rights it would be called for.  

I disagree. I don't think the same emotions would be there for anyone else, but Luke. Like I said above, Luke was a dad to Lorelai in everyway that counted, he was always there for her when she needed him.

I have to apologize if anything I’ve typed came off too harsh, but I just don’t see things anywhere near the same way you see them, I see a two way street with two characters making some serious mistakes.  

It's ok, I didn't take any of it like that, and I hope you don't take any of what I say like that either. Online it's hard to distinquish an attack from a livel debate, so I usually really on a standard, as long as no personal attacks are made I see it as a debate.



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 15, 2007, 03:44:17 pm
Again I appoligize for double posting, but my previous post was too big, so I had to ut this part out, and make a second post.

Luke_Danes_Fan you are citing her 48-hour blackout before the ultimatum completely out of context. She was also avoiding him before that, and even earlier, all the way back to "Super Cool Party People," when she told the entire town how much trouble she and Luke were having, then spent the night in a drunken coma with Christopher. (And he was in Philly, a few days after introducing April to the rest of his family.) Confronting him any sooner would have yielded an even more confusing conversation, since she hadn't seen Lynnie yet and had no idea what she wanted from Luke.

He didn't go to Philly (Where I live by the way), to show her to his family, he went there as a chaparone for April's school trip. The rest of his family, was Jess. He was in the same city, and since the trip was in the same area that Jess lived (And it was), Luke thought why not stop by and see his nephew, on he had a father / son relationship with, and introduce to him his daughter. What Lorelai was mad about it as that Rory went there (Neither her nor Luke knew the other was going to be there), and she met April, before she did. Lorelai's problems had more to do with her feelings towards marriage in general, and the feelings that were stirred up about Christpher by Emily.

For six months, Lorelai was so out of touch with Luke's life that she had no idea how much she could depend on him. For six months he needed nothing from her except that she not break up with him. Just like Billary.

I disagree with that. She had the chances to speak up, and yet he chose not to. And he didn't shut her out of his life. He sared everything ith her about April, he just didn't want to share his time with April, with Lorelai yet. He told her about April, and what he was thinking and feeling, he just wanted his time with her to be his time with April for now.

I should point out that Lorelai did not just put the wedding on hold when Rory left Yale. She proposed to him because he had the same reaction to it as she did, then shut him out of the way she handled it. End in sight or not, Luke had to watch Lorelai hide it from him and herself as she slowly fell apart under the strain of setting Rory free. She cried all night because Paul Anka had a cold and all he could do was hold her and pretend he didn't know what it was really about.

This I agree with here on this part. She saw Luke react like a dad, and knew that he got it. He got her. Then that was it. She didn't discuss Rory, she didn't even tell TJ that the room he wantd to knock out was Rory's, there was no mentioning of Rory, and Luke knew, it was what she needed, and didn't press her on it, but supported her when she needed it.

You would really think he would have learned a valuable lesson about step-parenting and being left out then, but Rory did come back without Luke giving her the Jess treatment, so I guess April will be okay without Lorelai to give her the "your mom is the most important person in your life" speech as New Mexico therapy.

ANNA: Luke, I don't know what you said to April, but I want to thank you. This morning she said she was looking forward to studying thermodynamics at Red Rock.
LUKE: Well, actually, it was Lorelai, telling her about her special bond with her daughter, Rory...
ANNA: Who? A stranger? Have you Googled her? Done an FBI background check? How often has this person been seeing my daughter? That's not normal!
LUKE: That does it, I'm suing you! I'm going to be April's mom now, darn it, I have rights!
Anna's LAWYER: I'm not touching this one. She's a Gilmore!

He accepted that Lorelai was doing what she had to do, and respected her by letting her do it. Lorelai should have learned that from him about being a step parent. Plus you can't compare Luke's feelings of being shut out of Rory''s life to Lorelai feeling left out of Luke and April's time together. Luke had a relationship with Rory independant of his and Lorelai's relationship. What Lorelai made Luke do was like a mother telling a father to cut their daughter, out of his life, because she is. Luke just needed time to get to know his daughter to have relationship with her that wasn't tied to Lorelai, before he let Lorelai in on that relationship, which he eventually did.

Luke has always been there for Lorelai even when they weren't dating. They were still always friends. Now that they have broken up they aren't friends anymore because the breakup screwed it up. I really having those Lorelai and Luke scenes. The ones where Luke is flirting with Lorelai or Lorelai is flirting with Luke. I miss them and now that they have broken up from a full blown relationship they can't be friends anymore which really sucks.

But they are still friends. Who is the first person that either one of them turn to when they need help? When April was sick, Luke turned to Lorelai. When he needed the letter, he turned to Lorelai. When Richard was in the hospital who was there to make sure Lorelai Rory, and Emily was ok? Luke. They are friends, and when you see them, you can tell they still love each other, they just don't flirt now because Lorelai is married, but they still long for each other.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ggrox on February 15, 2007, 04:15:30 pm
wow..long post..okay, someone fill me in about the last eppi...i missed most of it :'(....i saw the last part with chris..... :D :D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 15, 2007, 05:13:21 pm
how can i become an official java junkie!?!?! cuz im ALL IN!!!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ggrox on February 15, 2007, 05:15:12 pm
go to the jj thread..we r welcoming! :D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ckiddings on February 15, 2007, 05:19:22 pm
Where do you find the jj thread?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ggrox on February 15, 2007, 05:27:52 pm
go to cast and characters and go to java junkies thread (cuz we all love the chick beer!)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 15, 2007, 08:08:10 pm
He didn't go to Philly (Where I live by the way), to show her to his family, he went there as a chaparone for April's school trip. The rest of his family, was Jess. He was in the same city, and since the trip was in the same area that Jess lived (And it was), Luke thought why not stop by and see his nephew, on he had a father / son relationship with, and introduce to him his daughter. What Lorelai was mad about it as that Rory went there (Neither her nor Luke knew the other was going to be there), and she met April, before she did. Lorelai's problems had more to do with her feelings towards marriage in general, and the feelings that were stirred up about Christpher by Emily.

Thank you for reminding us. Lorelai was angry because Rory had met with Anna, though. I don't recall her expressing any resentment over the events that transpired in Philadelphia, except the bit where Anna bought him a travel bag.

I disagree with that. She had the chances to speak up, and yet he chose not to. And he didn't shut her out of his life. He sared everything ith her about April, he just didn't want to share his time with April, with Lorelai yet. He told her about April, and what he was thinking and feeling, he just wanted his time with her to be his time with April for now.

Well, I remember him telling her how well April had done at some competitive scholarly event by way of explaining his upcoming absence. Besides, He was already sharing his time with her around to everyone working at the diner plus Jess. Not to mention her entire class. He never even properly introduced Lorelai and April until the slumber party.

This I agree with here on this part. She saw Luke react like a dad, and knew that he got it. He got her. Then that was it. She didn't discuss Rory, she didn't even tell TJ that the room he wantd to knock out was Rory's, there was no mentioning of Rory, and Luke knew, it was what she needed, and didn't press her on it, but supported her when she needed it.

Of course you agree, I was agreeing with you. But while Luke was staying out of it, Lorelai was, too. She made the decision to let Rory be, but she still took Luke's advice about talking to Rory in "Fight Face." And she invited Luke to Rory's birthday party for emotional support. He didn't get to decide anything, and she didn't talk about it to him, but she still let him be there for her. Luke could have let her that far in without losing control of the situation.

Quote
He accepted that Lorelai was doing what she had to do, and respected her by letting her do it. Lorelai should have learned that from him about being a step parent. Plus you can't compare Luke's feelings of being shut out of Rory''s life to Lorelai feeling left out of Luke and April's time together. Luke had a relationship with Rory independant of his and Lorelai's relationship. What Lorelai made Luke do was like a mother telling a father to cut their daughter, out of his life, because she is. Luke just needed time to get to know his daughter to have relationship with her that wasn't tied to Lorelai, before he let Lorelai in on that relationship, which he eventually did.

But Lorelai was shutting herself out of Rory's life, too. They were shut out together, by Lorelai's decree. Luke didn't winge on about her delaying the wedding plans any more than she did about his postponement, how can it be selfless of him but immature of her? Luke didn't lose hope because she reassured him as soon as it occurred to her that he might be feeling insecure. I can't get too mad that Luke couldn't do the same, though. After all, he had no friends to tell him how weird the situation was getting without a wedding date.


Quote
But they are still friends. Who is the first person that either one of them turn to when they need help? When April was sick, Luke turned to Lorelai. When he needed the letter, he turned to Lorelai. When Richard was in the hospital who was there to make sure Lorelai Rory, and Emily was ok? Luke. They are friends, and when you see them, you can tell they still love each other, they just don't flirt now because Lorelai is married, but they still long for each other.

Now if only he could have "seen her face" when his world was rocked by the discovery of an illegitimate child!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Lori24 on February 15, 2007, 09:16:37 pm
"I think that it will take a long time for Luke and Lorelai to find their way back to each other. I just hope that they do make it."

I have no idea if I am quoting correctly, but Southern Lorelai wrote the quote.  Can someone tell me the correct way to quote someone?? Thanks :)
I agree with you and I hope they can figure things out.  Also, is it me or does Lorelai not seem her usual perky self this season so far?  I guess I can't really blame her with all that she has going on but.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Gilmorefan xx on February 15, 2007, 09:22:40 pm
Quote
I have no idea if I am quoting correctly, but Southern Lorelai wrote the quote.  Can someone tell me the correct way to quote someone?? Thanks
I agree with you and I hope they can figure things out.  Also, is it me or does Lorelai not seem her usual perky self this season so far?  I guess I can't really blame her with all that she has going on but.

to quote- find the litte thought bubble icon, click on it, then copy and paste in between the [] parts and it should work!

I know! I miss her perky self! It seems like that self has been going downhill since S5, even when she had hard times, she still would atleast act cheery a ways back. Granted this situation is a tad tougher than previous ones. Still, I miss Perky Lorelai.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Lori24 on February 15, 2007, 09:28:17 pm
Sorry to be a spas Gilmorefan XX but ...where would I find this thought bubble??   :)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: willowsprite on February 15, 2007, 09:32:10 pm
another nuance in the L/L problems.  I saw their reactions to the marriage posponements in light of their gender and timing.  Lorelei postponed setting a date at nearly the beginning of the engagement due to her and Rory's estrangement.  Luke understood Lorelei couldn't get married without Rory there.  For many guys, the details of weddings, or exactly when they are doesn't matter.  I never got the sense that it bothered Luke to wait.  He was happy, just knowing it would happen.  But for women, and Lorelei, the when and details do matter.  When she made up with Rory, she and Sookie had that magical day when they set everything up.  And then the date.  And she didn't consult Luke, but he'd been okay with her doing all the details.  Okay, so after everything is set up, then Luke puts the brakes on.  When you have the band booked, the church reserved etc., you have all that anticipation, expectation, the dream coming true.  And then no matter how legit, he puts off the wedding. From Lorelei's point of view, he seemed to be rethinking the marriage thing due to April's appearance.  When she was delaying for Rory, there was no rethinking, it was just that she wanted Rory to be there.  And Lorelei lived through the slow death of the dream wedding.  The two postponements were not the same.  Which is not to say that Lorelei handled things well.

And to put my vote in, I'd be okay with one of those endings where you know the soulmates are heading down the road together, I don't have to see L/L get married, just to know they will get there eventually is fine. :twocents:


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Gilmorefan xx on February 15, 2007, 09:38:54 pm
Quote
Sorry to be a spas Gilmorefan XX but ...where would I find this thought bubble??

sorry about that, i'm just pretty tired! the quote/thought bubble-looking icon is the second to last icon, in the row of icons above the smileys!



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Lori24 on February 15, 2007, 09:43:02 pm
Quote
Sorry to be a spas Gilmorefan XX but ...where would I find this thought bubble??

sorry about that, i'm just pretty tired! the quote/thought bubble-looking icon is the second to last icon, in the row of icons above the smileys!


[sorry about that, i'm just pretty tired! the quote/thought bubble-looking icon is the second to last icon, in the row of icons above the smileys!]  just trying this out...let's see if it worked!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Lori24 on February 15, 2007, 09:44:28 pm
ok that sort of worked...now I just have to figure out how to write outside of the purple box.  Thanks for your help and yes it's very late...this can be left until tomorrow.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Gilmorefan xx on February 15, 2007, 09:45:33 pm
just make sure you are outside of all writing and you should be good!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Lori24 on February 15, 2007, 09:53:58 pm
Will Do! thanks ;)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: HHQ on February 15, 2007, 10:33:00 pm
ok that sort of worked...now I just have to figure out how to write outside of the purple box.  Thanks for your help and yes it's very late...this can be left until tomorrow.


Everything in purple/quoted is between the "quote" tags, so just look for the "end quote" tag and type AFTER that and whatever you type will be below the purple box then.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 16, 2007, 05:42:49 am
Poor Luke.  I know, these things probably should be expected from me.  But I have to defend the man.  This really isn't in response to anyone recently...I was reading, like, page 12 and felt the need to post.  Of course, now we're on page 17 so this will seem irrelvalent, but oh well!

I know that I have been a Christopher Hayden hater lately, and of course I blame him for what happened at the end of last season.  But I also blame Lorelei.  Luke...not so much.  But wait!  Let me explain!  Yes, Luke did not handle the April situation properly.  But I see his only *true* (if not fatal) mistake to be the delayed honestly with Lorelei.  Bad Luke.  I can try to justify these reactions by saying:

--Oh, I don't know, the fact that he was SIDE-SWIPED with the life altering news that he had a DAUGHTER.  Um, how would you feel if a 12 year walked into YOUR diner and started calling you daddy?  Um, I'm guessing he was a little freaked out. 

--I think, initially, Luke felt a little guilty about April.  Hmm, how can I explain this.  So he's engaged to the woman he wants to marry.  He's been pining her for years.  He doesn't want to lose her.  But a daughter?  Even though he had NO idea April existed, this just opens up a huge can of worms.  It may lead Lorelei to wonder, "Well, does Luke have any more illegitimate children?  What IS his history?"  And plus, a WHOLE new woman is brought into the situation.  I think Luke panicked.  He's thinking to himself "I've been waiting for this for years, and now my kid could potentially ruin everything."  And we all know Luke isn't the most open person in the universe, so he delayed telling Lorelei while he figured HOW to tell Lorelei.  He didn't have any intention of never telling her, ever. 

--Plus, I think Luke deserved the chance to sort out his own feelings towards April.  Excluding Lorelei completely was a bad move, but I try to see where he's coming from.  Think:  Luke = quiet (ish), not too chatty, slow to work out his feelings.  April = "Hello, I'm your long-lost daughter."  Again, he was panicked.  But I think that the situation warrents him his own alone time with her. 

So, I don't think this post is turning out to be as persuasive as I had hoped.  Unfortunately, I have class soon.  So, everyone reading this know -- I'm not done! lol.  I'm coming back to it later.  But know, there are a lot of things Luke did that were wrong.  He handled the situation wrong.  I'm not apologizing for him.  I'm merely trying to wedge my way into that ballcap and present HIS point of view.  Where he was coming from.  And I believe Lorelei to be at fault during this situation as well.  She wasn't exaclty Miss Communicado about this entire situation.  My memory of her during the April-Luke episode was one pouty face outside the diner window.  And her ultimatum?  Atrocious.  Disgusting.  Immature.  I hate the blanket statement some people are bandying about on these boards, that Luke "didn't want to get married," thereby justifying her relationship with Christopher.  Ugh.  How can you seriously say that?  Luke wanted to get married, but he isn't going to respond to impassioned, irrational demands in the middle of the street.  He knows her, and he knew that she didn't want to get married like that. 

Ahh, class.  This is really a random post, but hopefully I pull things together later. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lifesSHORTtalkFAST on February 16, 2007, 06:46:08 am
Ahhh i was so mad i missed the episod, was freaking out. :o
Well from what i have heard, im praying teh lorelai and chris break up. but heres the problem they are married and i personaly believe that we need to find out that the marriage isn't leagal or somthing along thoes lines. 
Can't wait for next week
keep teh F.A.I.T.H
 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 16, 2007, 07:16:06 am
wow..long post..okay, someone fill me in about the last eppi...i missed most of it :'(....i saw the last part with chris..... :D :D

Richard is recovering from his heart attack and is walking around the hospital with Emily, Lorelai and Rory. They tell Rory that she has to go back to school, t's been two days, and she agrees. Richards tells her to keep him informed on the guy taking over his class for him, because Richard has a very laid out plan for the semester, and doesn't want him to stray from it at all. Rory goes home to her place with Paris, who is still sticking with the program she designed for them. Paris tries to show her sympathy, in very Paris-like behavior, by taking notes for Rory, but blacking out her own thoughts on what was said, and telling Rory that she can "Play The Grandfather Card" about her classes and stuff. Rory gets a package for Logan, a survival kit for the second half of her senior year, which includes one of those sentimental frame things. Paris tells Rory that she has broken Logan, and relates it to a cowboy breaking a wild horse. This make Rory nervous and when she meets the TA, she is attracted to him, and is almost as nervous as she was when she first met Dean. She bumps into him again and again, she flirts and then when Logan comes by, she feels guilty and tells Logan about recomending a book to the TA, and about what Paris said, and Logan eases her mind.  

Michelle is at the Dragonfly with Paw Paw, and when Sookie and Lorelai come out, they inquire about why Paw Paw is in the Inn, because Michelle knows, the dogs aren't allow there. Michelle gets very defensive and tells them that Chin Chin has died. Sookie and Lorelai try to be nice to Michelle, but in his grieving, Michelle snips at them and brings up Sookie's children. Lorelai suggests that Michelle hold a memorial for Chin Chin, and Michelle is pleased with the idea and assumes that Lorelai and Sookie will be handling it, and tells them tomorrow will be a good day for it. Michelle comes to them and holds a meeting to discuss the plans for the memorial, which Lorelai and Sookie, have nothing yet. Michelle is still being snippy and wants a big deal. Chin Chin has been cremated, and after the memorial his ashes will be scattered by the tree he loved in Michelle's yard. The service will be held twilight, with flowers, programs and food. Michelle is very picky and snippy about the details.

Christopher arrives at the Inn and him and Lorelai begin to talk about what happened. We find out that Christopher shut his phone off after the fight, and came as soon as he heard. He spent an hour at the hospital with Richard, then left and has been staying with his mother. He tells her that he left because of who else was there, Lorelai tells him that she didn't ask him to come, and Christopher tells her that she didn't ask him to leave either. Lorelai defends Luke and tells Christopher that Luke is her friend and he was there for her, he brought her food, and he didn't show up, a part of her wasn't suprised. Lorelai leaves the conversation, because she has a lot of things to do.

Lorelai goes home and finds Christopher there, and the two talk again. This time Christopher explains somethings to Lorelai, and appoligizes for rushing her. Lorelai tells him it's not like that, and more comes out. Christopher tells Lorelai about the fight in the town's square with him, and how this is what it's come down to him fighting a guy in the middle of town. Lorelai wished Christopher would have told her, so she could have been there for him. Christopher says it took him 20 years to get her to marry him and now that they are, it's like he's still asking her. Lorelai tells him that she's not in love with Luke, but Christopher tells her, that he sees the way she looks at him. Christoher decides he eeds to leave to check on GiGi.

Lorelai talks to Sookie about everything, and tells her that she has decided that the only way to save her marriage is to cut Luke out of her life forever, no friends no relationship at all. Sookie wants Lorelai to think about it, and asks her if Luke was never in the picture, would she have ever married Christopher. Then Lorelai and Michelle are getting some final things for the memorial and Michelle tells Lorelai a story about Chin Chin, how he ate one of Luke's burgers, and he loved it more then all of the gourmet food Michelle had for him, so he was going to go to Luke's and in Chin Chin's honor eat a burger. Lorelai tells him she'll pick up the programs while he does that and she sees Luke through the window, and waves to him with a look of pain and realization on her face. At the memorial Zack is playing "My Heart Will Go On" (Chin Chin's favorite song) on guitar as the camera pans we see the mourners, pets and their owners and then we see Lorelai, who has come to her conclussion.

Lorelai arrives home where her and Christopher end the marriage.

I hope that was detailed enough. I tried to seperate it into plotlines.

Thank you for reminding us. Lorelai was angry because Rory had met with Anna, though. I don't recall her expressing any resentment over the events that transpired in Philadelphia, except the bit where Anna bought him a travel bag.

She was also dissapointed that Rory met April before she did.

Well, I remember him telling her how well April had done at some competitive scholarly event by way of explaining his upcoming absence. Besides, He was already sharing his time with her around to everyone working at the diner plus Jess. Not to mention her entire class. He never even properly introduced Lorelai and April until the slumber party.

He wasn't sharing his time with her with the diner. She was coming there doing homework and hanging out with her Dad. He just wanted that time to have with her.

Of course you agree, I was agreeing with you. But while Luke was staying out of it, Lorelai was, too. She made the decision to let Rory be, but she still took Luke's advice about talking to Rory in "Fight Face." And she invited Luke to Rory's birthday party for emotional support. He didn't get to decide anything, and she didn't talk about it to him, but she still let him be there for her. Luke could have let her that far in without losing control of the situation.

She didn't plan on going to talk to Rory that day, she just happened upon her, and that wasn't really a talk, it was more of a dig, to let each other know that they were hurting, which in turn hurt the other.

Luke did let Lorelai be there for him. Lorelai never talked about what she was going through with Rory, Luke did with April. He told her about how smart she was, he told her about things they done, he told her about going on the trip, he told her about what happened on the trip. He talked with her about April, all he didn't do was allow her to be there when he was bonding with her, other then her being present, he let her in about what he was going through with April.

But Lorelai was shutting herself out of Rory's life, too. They were shut out together, by Lorelai's decree. Luke didn't winge on about her delaying the wedding plans any more than she did about his postponement, how can it be selfless of him but immature of her? Luke didn't lose hope because she reassured him as soon as it occurred to her that he might be feeling insecure. I can't get too mad that Luke couldn't do the same, though. After all, he had no friends to tell him how weird the situation was getting without a wedding date.

Luke never doubted Lorelai. He knew that they will get married, and that he needed to give her the time before they started planning anything. Lorelai, didn't have that faith, even though Luke reassured her, and even told her that they can get married at Martha's Vinyard in the summer. She at least had a time frame, all Luke had was whenever Rory and Lorelai mend their relationship, and watched as Lorelai did nothing to accomplish it.

Now if only he could have "seen her face" when his world was rocked by the discovery of an illegitimate child!

another nuance in the L/L problems.  I saw their reactions to the marriage posponements in light of their gender and timing.  Lorelei postponed setting a date at nearly the beginning of the engagement due to her and Rory's estrangement.  Luke understood Lorelei couldn't get married without Rory there.  For many guys, the details of weddings, or exactly when they are doesn't matter.  I never got the sense that it bothered Luke to wait.  He was happy, just knowing it would happen.  But for women, and Lorelei, the when and details do matter.  When she made up with Rory, she and Sookie had that magical day when they set everything up.  And then the date.  And she didn't consult Luke, but he'd been okay with her doing all the details.  Okay, so after everything is set up, then Luke puts the brakes on.  When you have the band booked, the church reserved etc., you have all that anticipation, expectation, the dream coming true.  And then no matter how legit, he puts off the wedding. From Lorelei's point of view, he seemed to be rethinking the marriage thing due to April's appearance.  When she was delaying for Rory, there was no rethinking, it was just that she wanted Rory to be there.  And Lorelei lived through the slow death of the dream wedding.  The two postponements were not the same.  Which is not to say that Lorelei handled things well.

And to put my vote in, I'd be okay with one of those endings where you know the soulmates are heading down the road together, I don't have to see L/L get married, just to know they will get there eventually is fine. :twocents:

But Luke wanted to be a part of the planning, it was the BFOTB (Sookie) that told him it wasn't his place. Plus the wedding plans went from 0-Warp 10 in a blink of an eye. Normally a wedding takes time to plan, that day Lorelai wasn't even sure about what color to wear, Luke figured he had time. But then all of a sudden everything was planned, even his tux was picked out. What normally takes weeks or months, Lorelai did in one day, and Luke no longer had the time he thought he had. That's why he needed to postpone it. She could have at least cheked with him before she booked the church, the hall, and set the date.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 16, 2007, 08:00:24 am
First I want to say that the comment that Luke didn’t want to marry Lorelai, was Lorelai’s herself, not something that we’re just making up.  It’s how she saw the situation as she said to Sookie in this episode.  So just as you’re trying to present it from Luke’s point of view that is Lorelai’s point of view and because of that it’s valid.  ;)

Luke didn't have a relationship with April for 2 months behind Lorelai's back. He knew about April for 2 months, and was trying to wrap his own head around it. He needed to make the decision himself, he couldn't have Lorelai tell him to have the relationship with April, he needed to do that on his own, because he wanted to. Lorelai felt threatened, and instead of telling Luke how she felt, she decided to ignore him, duck him, and hide from him. That is the difference.
While I can see Luke wanting to make his own decision about whether or not to have a relationship (or what kind of relationship) with April reasonable, he still knew about her existence for two months without saying anything.  Your later point serves to prove mine as well that if he was concerned how it would look to Lorelai that he all of the sudden has a love child, was made an actual concern and larger than it really was by seeming to hide it.  Lorelai, imo, would never have had a negative reaction to the simple fact of April’s existence.  That’s just an irrational thought.  Whether its how Luke felt or not I don’t know but it is irrational.  When you love someone you work through the kinks with them you don’t turn and run.  And if Luke was fearful for her running from it or having a negative reaction to the fact that April existed then there was a bigger problem.  Especially since we’re supposed to believe he’s the one she wasn’t supposed to run from.  And again, I’m taking how everything concluded out of it and just looking at the time period that Luke knew April existed and didn’t tell Lorelai.  

I’m still not sure how I feel about the ultimatum because I can understand why she did it even if her insecurities were (supposedly) unfounded.  I don’t think ultimatums are usually a smart choice of action but with the way she was feeling, she had had enough and needed action to be taken and Luke wasn’t doing anything so she gave him a push she thought should end in a different manner if indeed he was ‘all in’.  Calmly discussing it was the right course of action no matter how you look at it, but there was emotion involved and she was anything but calm that night so it wasn’t even a possibility.

So for whatever reason ABC family just reran A Vineyard Valentine out of sequence with their normal programming of GG and thanks to my DVR recording every GG that is ever on TV I watched the end scene with Lorelai and Luke’s discussion that we’ve been referring to.  I will say that it was a calmer talk than I remembered it.  And both Lorelai and Luke seemed to like the idea of eloping in the summer at the Vineyard, but I stick to my opinion that it was merely a suggestion made by Luke in order to prove that he did want to get married.  There was nothing saying that it would definitely happen and it was most definitely not planned (part of the reason for that was because it was an elopement and Lorelai did say that they can’t plan an elopement).  As I believe willowsprite mentioned, waiting for Lorelai and Rory to reconcile was practically a condition of the proposal whereas April came after and was a reason the already planned wedding was put on hold.  I agree with willowsprite’s point on this and hopefully the fact that it’s already been said will shorten my post.  No promises :)

I can also understand her desire not to bring up April in A Vineyard Valentine.  She had the perfect opportunity to do so after they had gotten back from the trip and were in the diner and Cesar was telling Luke that April would be coming over at 3:00 the next day (that’s me admitting one of Lorelai’s faults that led to the ultimate demise of L/L).  They had just had a talk that ended nicely and with at least some resolution as to Luke confirming he did sill want to get married (whether she fully believed it or not).  And I’ll repeat that she had been shut down anytime she tried to give input about April.  And I made the mistake of combining (and effectively ignoring the timeline of) Luke not telling Lorelai that April existed and the whole town except Lorelai being allowed to around April.  But those two things still happened.  The town was allowed to be in the diner when April was there, Lorelai was not.  Luke did properly introduce Jess to April when they were out of town.  Lorelai was standing in the diner the same time as April when she found out about her and still didn’t not even get an introduction until Luke needed her for the birthday party.

Luke had the ability to keep up with Lorelai through everything else, but not the rant the night of the ultimatum?  He was so offended by the fact that an ultimatum was being placed on him that he didn’t listen to the concerns Lorelai was throwing out (whether they were done in an appropriate manner or not).  He didn’t consider the concerns; he just defended his original reasoning without listening to what she was saying.  They had known each other for so long and again I’ll say that he was supposed to be ‘the one’ so his hesitation being as a result of not wanting to repeat what happened with he and Nicole has little foundation.  Two totally different situations.  It would hardly be jumping for them to agree to elope that night (especially considering they had already discussed it as a viable option) with Luke like it was with Christopher.  And L/C hadn’t happened yet so I can’t see that something Luke would think of.  

Luke saying he had April to think about wasn’t a question.  Lorelai asking if they could wait for Rory (even thought the answer would always be yes) was a question.  If Luke had taken a moment just to ask, even if Lorelai’s opinion didn’t matter or wouldn’t change anything, at least it would have made her feel like he was hearing her.  

How Lorelai handled Rory’s rebellion is a different discussion.  My point there was that there was an event, one that Luke would without a doubt know about first thing, that marked the start of wedding planning.  The event that marked Luke being comfortable enough with April to continue planning, was whenever he felt comfortable.  Which as it was going (remembering that he mostly only shared major details regarding April that affected Lorelai) was whenever he felt like it.  Lorelai had no way of knowing ‘when he felt like it’ would come around because she wasn’t hearing what defined his being in a good place with April was.  While she was hearing of some of the things they do together (again because they affect Lorelai, like when he went on the field trip because he would be out of town) and even smidgens about how he felt about them, there wasn’t something that said this is the point where it will all be okay.  This is not an example that I would have liked to actually see happen but an example of what might have been a true marker that she might actually know about, he could have said when she calls me Dad, I know everything will be fine.  

Lorelai did discuss Rory’s rebellion with Luke, as someone else said Lorelai decided that they were freezing them out together.  It is possible for decisions to be up to the biological parent while that parent still makes the other feel involved.  That's how blended families work.

It's ok, I didn't take any of it like that, and I hope you don't take any of what I say like that either. Online it's hard to distinquish an attack from a livel debate, so I usually really on a standard, as long as no personal attacks are made I see it as a debate.
Good :) I would never intentionally personally attack someone when posting and I just wanted to make sure it wasn’t received that way despite the frustration I included.  

ETA:

Luke effectively cut Lorelai off from the diner during the time that April was there.  I won’t explain this properly so I’m not going to go into detail but it’s a thought that struck me after I posted.  To use symbolism (I don’t even know if that’s the right term or not) that has been expressed in the past.  Luke/Luke's Diner is Lorelai’s source of nourishment.  He provides her with food and coffee which sustain her.  Cutting her off from the diner for 4 hours a day (or three days a week, whatever it was, I’m sure someone will confirm) is like cutting her off from nourishment.  Of course the same could be said of when she avoids it due to a fight, or more recently because of Christopher, but she avoided it herself she wasn't cut off/banned in those situations.

But Luke wanted to be a part of the planning, it was the BFOTB (Sookie) that told him it wasn't his place. Plus the wedding plans went from 0-Warp 10 in a blink of an eye. Normally a wedding takes time to plan, that day Lorelai wasn't even sure about what color to wear, Luke figured he had time. But then all of a sudden everything was planned, even his tux was picked out. What normally takes weeks or months, Lorelai did in one day, and Luke no longer had the time he thought he had. That's why he needed to postpone it. She could have at least cheked with him before she booked the church, the hall, and set the date.

I have to tell you, I’m planning my own wedding right now, and it can happen that fast.  One minute you’re just engaged and happy as can be, the next minute you have the hall, the church, the dress ordered, deposit on the tuxes, the DJ, & the photographer all done in the blink of an eye.  There are plenty of details other than this those that still need to be accounted for.  These (as these are the things Lorelai accomplished) are just the big things that ‘they’ actually recommend you get done nine months ahead of time. 



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Devilina07 on February 16, 2007, 08:43:38 am
Before Gilmore Girls I was (am) a huge Friends fan, I just loved the show and things there got never that messed up, but some storylines seemend over ... but they always, always manged to bring them back in a great way, maybe the Gilmore writers should take a summer - writing - class with them  ;). And, Friends sticked around for 3 more seasons after the first "We want to quit", just because the fans needed them and needed the story to end in a way that would make them happy. I think us Gilmore Girls fand deserve the same.
I think that 'Friends' is a different quality show that makes it hard to compare to 'Gilmore Girls.'  I did feel as though the show meandered at the end and the musical chairs of who was hooking up with whom made me groan.  I, for one, would not want the writers of GG to take any sort of notes from the 'Friends' playbook.  'Friends' was a comedy whereas I would say that 'Gilmore Girls' is more of a hybrid between a dramedy and a situational comedy.  Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.  Nevermind that one was filmed on a soundstage and another on a lot.  And isn't the GG ending the way that perhaps most if not a good number of fans want it to?  It seems that this whole show was centered around the sexual tension between Luke and Lorelai, not Chris.  From the very beginning we are given hints as to the mutual admiration for each other.  How much would it have upset fans if Lorelai had remained with Chris, a person who was set up as a person Lorelai went to when she refused to settle down?  I do not deny that Chris and Lorelai had chemistry together. This is an undeniable fact. However I find it hard to believe that from the inception of the show, it was written in the stars that Chris and Lorelai would become a long lasting couple.  They have the history together but they also brought a lot of baggage.  If anything, at this point I would be happier if Lorelai stayed single.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 16, 2007, 09:28:29 am
why is it that everytime i quote GG everyone just stares..??


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ckiddings on February 16, 2007, 12:02:40 pm
Read my signature!  :D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: runningsb05 on February 16, 2007, 12:18:17 pm
This episode was one of the better ones.

Lorelai/Chris - It is over. I was over from the second they said "I do". May Java Junkie rejoice.
Rory/Logan - MAD AT RORY: I know it is possible to *crush* on someone while in a relationship, but I cannot help but get mad. Rory has someone (Logan) great right in front of her, yet she lets her guard down and takes her relationship forgranted. GLAD AT RORY - I love that Rory confronted Logan with her situation. I loved how Logan handled it even more - understanding, supportive even.  If Rory did not confront Logan about her crush then I would continue to be mad at her. I love the Logan/Rory relationship, and I hate to see anything happen to it.

Lots of symbolism in this episode - was I the only one noticed it?
"My Heart Will Go On" : Lorelai knew the relationship was over, and was upset that it was.  But her heart will go on (...and on and on and eventually will become one with Luke's :)).  Just like the song.
Chin-Chin's Funeral - Not to offend anyone, but who cares about the dog's funeral.  I believe Rosenthal (sp?) put it in there as to symbolize Lorelai's goodbye's to Chris and their marriage as opposed to Chin-Chin.

The whole confrontation thing with Rory and Logan was to show how strong their relationship is; that it can last even through other attractions for other people...

Previews look good for next week.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kworx82 on February 16, 2007, 12:26:21 pm
I loved this episode.. does anyone remember in season 4 when Loralie called michele to come 2 the Inn, and he was like.. OHmigod Celine Deion is here, she is so beautiful! lol.. i dunno i just burst out laughing when they chose that song..


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 16, 2007, 01:20:35 pm
i so totally remember that! thats what i was thinking right when he said celiene dion!!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 16, 2007, 01:28:56 pm
Laurla205, I agree that Luke was wrong for keeping April a secret, and for not letting Lorelai see her, I'm not saying he was right. What I'm saying is that I can understand why he did it, and that Lorelai, being who she is and the experiences she went through, should have also.

Luke not telling Lorelai about April for 2 months wasn't because he was afraid about how she would react to the news, but because he didn't know how to deal with it. If Lorelai knew, he knew she would give him advice, and he wanted to come to his own decission about April. Plus Lorelai and Rory discussed Luke taking 2 months, and they understood it, so that was no longer an issue, and if it was Lorelai had numerous chances to speak up and tell Luke about how she was feeling, just like Luke told Lorelai how he felt about being in the middle of her and Rory. Lorelai chose not to say anything about it.

Lorelai and Rory mending things was an event, but it wasn't clear, and again she did nothing to achieve the event, and I might add she wouldn't discuss anything about it with Luke at all. Now Luke needed time to get things settled with April, which is an event. It wasn't when he was comfortable, it was when things were settled, meaning things like visitations were worked out, because at the time they were taking it day by day. Then once they were ok, Luke would included Lorelai into the relationship. Through the whole thing Luke shared things with Lorelai, not just major things but small things like telling Lorelai ow smart April was in Math. He shared what he was going through, the only thing he didn't want was Lorelai to spend time with her yet. He just didn't want his relationship with April to be independant of hers with Lorelai.

A Vinyard Valentine re-aired on ABC Family, because it was Valentine's Day. Luke asking Lorelai to elope, wasn't a way to pacify her. If he did said it the night before, I could see it that way, but he didn't. They had already worked through that, and Lorelai was assured, and they went to bed. The next day they woke up, they ha breakfast in bed and talking about their pasts. Lorelai was happy and cheerful, no doom and gloom hanging over her, and Luke looked at her and brought up eloping. Then he said they could get married at Martha's Vineyard, and that they can do it in the summer, and rent a house for a few weeks. Lorleai and him agreed on doing that, that's not throwing something out there, they began planning something, that's substantial.

While yes things do fall into place fast sometimes, but the whole wedding doesn't take shape in an afternoon usually. Lorelai couldn't even decided on a color for her dress, the date was totally in the air, which is the one thing she should have discussed with Luke. Men may not be interested in wheter they have white, off white, ivory, cream, or whatever color invitations, but they would like a say in somethings, like where, and when. I think Lorelai realized that, and that's why she offered the postponement.

I disagree about Lorelai's postponing also. Her postponing the wedding until her and Rory mend fences, was not a condition of the engagement, it was a postponing of the wedding. They were already engaged, and told people about it, then Lorelai told Luke that she couldn't plan the wedding until Rory is back. It was the wedding, not the engagement that she put on hold.

The ultimatu wasn't just Lorelai telling Luke she wanted to get married now. He spent two days calling everywhere and looking everywhere. He was worried about Lorelai, he didn't know what was wrong, and then she ccomes in out of the blue, rambling off, and he becomes more worried, Then she throughs everything she has been hoding in at Luke, even though they discussed her fears about not getting married before, and she was ok, up until that night, and she had never mentioned to him that she was upset about April, even though she could have at numerous times. Then she tells him that she confronted Anna, which if Luke would have done that to Christopher Lorelai would have been pisssed. She tells him how everything would be ok if they were married, Anna told her that, which makes her asking him to marry her then and now seem even less sincere, like she's doing it for everyone and everything except for them. Then before he can say anything else, she leaves, and sleeps with Christopher.

Oh and don't even get me started on the quack of a psychologist that she talked to before her epiphany, because she really shouldn't be giving advice to anyone.

Oh and this episode kind of made me laugh. Ithought it was perfectly ironic that Michele made such a big deal over Chin Chin's death. Every scene where Michele reminded me of him in "Cinnamon's Wake", when he thought it was amusingly absurd that they were holding a wake for a cat. I loved the irony of it all.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 16, 2007, 01:35:29 pm
how do i get a pic where my signature is??


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 16, 2007, 01:36:32 pm
I have to admit, acoustic "My Heart Will Go On" grinds acoustic "Livin' On A Prayer" into the turf with cleats.

She was also dissapointed that Rory met April before she did.
Ahh, well, we'd better have her arrested for child abuse, then. Seriously, it had been months, why hadn't she met April by then?

He wasn't sharing his time with her with the diner. She was coming there doing homework and hanging out with her Dad. He just wanted that time to have with her.

He was working, and Lane and Caesar were there, too, getting to know April by being around her. I'm a little bugged by this "keeping April a secret thing." Lorelai never said anything about it, never showed the first sign of not letting it go. She blew the secret by showing up unexpectedly (the only way it could happen since by then he was actively trying to hide April) and instead of getting angry, she jumped right in, wanting to help him do whatever he was doing. The secret has long-since been denounced (in a conversation with Liz) as Luke being Luke, if Lorelai was able to deal, I think I can.


She didn't plan on going to talk to Rory that day, she just happened upon her, and that wasn't really a talk, it was more of a dig, to let each other know that they were hurting, which in turn hurt the other.

Well, that's why she was so reluctant to speak with Rory: it was too soon. But Luke told her that talking with Rory was what she did best and that she should tell Rory about them. By the law of scene proximity, it would still have been in her mind when she saw Rory. If it was an accidental encounter.

Quote
Luke did let Lorelai be there for him. Lorelai never talked about what she was going through with Rory, Luke did with April. He told her about how smart she was, he told her about things they done, he told her about going on the trip, he told her about what happened on the trip. He talked with her about April, all he didn't do was allow her to be there when he was bonding with her, other then her being present, he let her in about what he was going through with April.

Yeah, but Luke was invited to all of Rory's birthdays, (even 21) and he was allowed to buy her Christmas presents. Luke's obviously proud of April, but it was pretty selfish to tell her all about his special thing with April while keeping them apart. Not even a "just wait til you meet her, you'll be amazed." Come on, proud parents tell the clerk at the supermarket as much about their kids as Luke told Lorelai.

Quote
Luke never doubted Lorelai. He knew that they will get married, and that he needed to give her the time before they started planning anything. Lorelai, didn't have that faith, even though Luke reassured her, and even told her that they can get married at Martha's Vinyard in the summer. She at least had a time frame, all Luke had was whenever Rory and Lorelai mend their relationship, and watched as Lorelai did nothing to accomplish it.

It seems he cottoned before they broke up that she wanted a marriage more than he did. Summer arrived and they didn't load up the truck, so I'm guessing Luke wasn't just about to plan an elopement before Lorelai dumped him. His 'plan' sounded like he was at a loss, so he described the first thing he saw: the beach at Martha's Vineyard.
I got that Luke wanted to help her with Rory. It may have been a latent suppressed desire to spring into action over the dropout that put him in Logan's face so much that weekend: He wished he'd taken a shot at Logan back when the boy was clearly in the wrong.
What it really demonstrated was that Luke's mind was on bringing up his stepdaughter-to-be (who didn't need it,) and not on being with his wife-to-be (who did.) It made a good analogy for their difficulties at home, where Luke was struggling with being either a husband or a father.

Quote
But Luke wanted to be a part of the planning, it was the BFOTB (Sookie) that told him it wasn't his place. Plus the wedding plans went from 0-Warp 10 in a blink of an eye. Normally a wedding takes time to plan, that day Lorelai wasn't even sure about what color to wear, Luke figured he had time. But then all of a sudden everything was planned, even his tux was picked out. What normally takes weeks or months, Lorelai did in one day, and Luke no longer had the time he thought he had. That's why he needed to postpone it. She could have at least cheked with him before she booked the church, the hall, and set the date.

So Luke ran out of time again the night Lorelai broke up with him. He should have said something when he found out she hadn't canceled all the wedding plans, but in hindsight, it appears he hadn't made up his mind yet.
In a way, it is not unlike the situation Christopher occupied with Lorelai. She asked Luke to marry her, and he said yes, but one year later, she still didn't know if he was going to do it or not. Christopher, likewise knew that Lorelai was his wife, but he also knew she was struggling with it every day. He was still trying to earn her, trying to be worthy of that effort, until the moment he decided he couldn't live like that and released her (against her wishes.)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Alexandria on February 16, 2007, 01:45:19 pm
I think the acting in this episode (particularly Lauren and David) was the best so far this season.

I totally agree with you. I thought that Lauren Graham and David Sutcliffe did an excellent job in this episode with the storyline. I hope that those Emmy people watched this episode! Lauren totally deserves recognition for her heart wrenching scenes in this episode.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 16, 2007, 01:46:47 pm
Quote
She didn't plan on going to talk to Rory that day, she just happened upon her, and that wasn't really a talk, it was more of a dig, to let each other know that they were hurting, which in turn hurt the other.

No she didn't plan it.  And, yes, they went at  each other like two barking dogs.  But, the way the scene played, Lorelai happened upon Rory, kept driving, and turned back.  She made a conscious decision to give it a go.  I can't believe it was just a coincidence that she decided to turn the jeep around and try to engage in a conversation after Luke said that maybe she and Rory were being stupid.  So even though her execution was horrible, it seemed clear that she took Luke's advice to heart and at least attempted to follow it.  Maybe it was only a dig (I thought it was her using her typical humor which may have had a little more acid because of the situation, but I still saw it as an attempt to diffuse the tension) but I don't think she would have even gone that far if she hadn't heard Luke.  She would have stuck to the no contact whatsoever policy.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 16, 2007, 02:31:52 pm
alot of people dont talk about how stupid lorelai was during this whole sharade. she gave luke an ultimatum, he needed to think- she was too immature to realize that he has a child now.

and yes, luke was.. whatever, in not telling her about april. but, she knew and still left him in a moment of sakdflsjflsjflskjflsjflsfj ( i am at a terrible loss for words.i am a writer for goodness sake! this cold medicine kills brain cells!)
to go and sleep with christopher! thats ridiculous! thats ludacrisy!

how could she hurt luke like that! everyone is so happy that she and luke are getting back together soon, hopefully, ( and dont get me wrong, i am a total java junkie!) but look what she did to luke! he deserves more.. she owes him so much for doing what she did to him. she was a total fool.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 16, 2007, 02:32:43 pm
i love her still though. please, dont get me wrong


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 16, 2007, 03:05:45 pm
Ahh, well, we'd better have her arrested for child abuse, then. Seriously, it had been months, why hadn't she met April by then?

No she wasn't a bad mom for feeling that way, he ws justified for feeling like that. I was just pointing out that she wasn't mad that Jess met April, but she was disappointed that Rory got to meet her before she did.

He was working, and Lane and Caesar were there, too, getting to know April by being around her. I'm a little bugged by this "keeping April a secret thing." Lorelai never said anything about it, never showed the first sign of not letting it go. She blew the secret by showing up unexpectedly (the only way it could happen since by then he was actively trying to hide April) and instead of getting angry, she jumped right in, wanting to help him do whatever he was doing. The secret has long-since been denounced (in a conversation with Liz) as Luke being Luke, if Lorelai was able to deal, I think I can.

He was not "Actively Trying To Hide April", at this point he had only met April once before, and this was their second meeting, and he called Lorelai and wanted to talk to her before April got there and he told her it couldn't be done on the phone that he needed to talk to her in person. He was going to tell Lorelai all about it that day, but Lorelai was too busy to meet with him, so she found out by accident. Lorelai did say she was ok with the 2-month time frame, when her and Rory talked it out over dinner, they realized how Luke must have felt and understood why he did what he did. He told Liz, his sister, because he knew Liz would just listen, she wouldn't tell him what to do, Lorelai would have. Lorelai would have said "Luke you need to be there, you need to see your daughter", and then she would have pushed him to going to meet her and everything, that is how Lorelai is, and he needed to be the one to decide all of that.

Well, that's why she was so reluctant to speak with Rory: it was too soon. But Luke told her that talking with Rory was what she did best and that she should tell Rory about them. By the law of scene proximity, it would still have been in her mind when she saw Rory. If it was an accidental encounter.

Yes it was still on her mind, and the reason why she did talk to ROry, but she didn't leave and go out to find Rory to talk to her. She spotted her by accident, and took Luke's advice, even though it ended babdly. All I was saying is she didn't hear Luke and seek Rory out to talk, if she didn't see Rory on the highway, she never would have called er up or stopped by Emily & Richard's to talk to Rory, because Luke said she should.

Yeah, but Luke was invited to all of Rory's birthdays, (even 21) and he was allowed to buy her Christmas presents. Luke's obviously proud of April, but it was pretty selfish to tell her all about his special thing with April while keeping them apart. Not even a "just wait til you meet her, you'll be amazed." Come on, proud parents tell the clerk at the supermarket as much about their kids as Luke told Lorelai.

Luke isn't like everyone else. Luke isn't the type to ell people things that personal, for him. Lorelai knows how Luke is, she and ROry talked about it over dinner. So when Luke sared that with her, that was him bringing her into it, but just not letting her hang with them yet.

It seems he cottoned before they broke up that she wanted a marriage more than he did. Summer arrived and they didn't load up the truck, so I'm guessing Luke wasn't just about to plan an elopement before Lorelai dumped him. His 'plan' sounded like he was at a loss, so he described the first thing he saw: the beach at Martha's Vineyard.
I got that Luke wanted to help her with Rory. It may have been a latent suppressed desire to spring into action over the dropout that put him in Logan's face so much that weekend: He wished he'd taken a shot at Logan back when the boy was clearly in the wrong.

Luke wasn't at a loss. They had already put her fears to rest the night before, and they were enjoying their time together, and Luke came up with the idea of getting married there. Luke like Martha's Vineyard then and he knew Lorelai liked it, and it was perfect so he thought it would be perfect for their wedding, and honeymoon, and she agreed. He wasn't feeling pressured there, they were calm and happy at that point. Luke never for one moment didn't want to marry Lorelai. Summer hadn't arrived yet, Lorelai broke up with him in May, which is still Spring, they had over a month until Summer even began. Lorelai just let her fears and insecurities get to her, and that quack who gave her advice without being properly informed.

As for Logan, he said why he was acting like that, he wasn't sure how they felt bout him, since Lorelai went from hating him, to liking him, to being ok with him, to hating him, and I think a part of it was that Luke just saw this guy as the guy that hurt Rory so many times.

What it really demonstrated was that Luke's mind was on bringing up his stepdaughter-to-be (who didn't need it,) and not on being with his wife-to-be (who did.) It made a good analogy for their difficulties at home, where Luke was struggling with being either a husband or a father.

Luke's mind was on Lorelai and him, and Rory. Luke reacted like any father would towards Logan. Here is a guy who has hurt Rory more then once, who Lorelai blamed for Rory getting in trouble, and dropping out and everything. He didn't like Logan because he hurt his family, hat says his mind is on Lorelai and Rory.

So Luke ran out of time again the night Lorelai broke up with him. He should have said something when he found out she hadn't canceled all the wedding plans, but in hindsight, it appears he hadn't made up his mind yet.
In a way, it is not unlike the situation Christopher occupied with Lorelai. She asked Luke to marry her, and he said yes, but one year later, she still didn't know if he was going to do it or not. Christopher, likewise knew that Lorelai was his wife, but he also knew she was struggling with it every day. He was still trying to earn her, trying to be worthy of that effort, until the moment he decided he couldn't live like that and released her (against her wishes.)

It's nothing like that. Luke commented on the fact that Lorelai didn't cancel everything back then, and he felt bad, but he didn't want her to think he didn't want to get married, or that loosing the deposits was a big deal, because all he cared about was marrying her, He told her that night they were going to get married and that he loved her, he reassured her that night and she was ok. That was the night she should have put everything out there, but she didn't. He also let her know that he realized he's been lost in his own head and that she was right to bring him out of his head, so why didn't she just sit him down again for a talk insead of unloading everything on him then running away. She idn't leave him adust to anything, she dropped multiple bombs on him that night, then just left.

No she didn't plan it.  And, yes, they went at  each other like two barking dogs.  But, the way the scene played, Lorelai happened upon Rory, kept driving, and turned back.  She made a conscious decision to give it a go.  I can't believe it was just a coincidence that she decided to turn the jeep around and try to engage in a conversation after Luke said that maybe she and Rory were being stupid.  So even though her execution was horrible, it seemed clear that she took Luke's advice to heart and at least attempted to follow it.  Maybe it was only a dig (I thought it was her using her typical humor which may have had a little more acid because of the situation, but I still saw it as an attempt to diffuse the tension) but I don't think she would have even gone that far if she hadn't heard Luke.  She would have stuck to the no contact whatsoever policy.

Like I said above, Luke's words were still with her. But I think if she never had that conversation with Luke and saw Rory on the road she would have pulled over, because Rory's her daughter and she was hurt.
alot of people dont talk about how stupid lorelai was during this whole sharade. she gave luke an ultimatum, he needed to think- she was too immature to realize that he has a child now.

and yes, luke was.. whatever, in not telling her about april. but, she knew and still left him in a moment of sakdflsjflsjflskjflsjflsfj ( i am at a terrible loss for words.i am a writer for goodness sake! this cold medicine kills brain cells!)
to go and sleep with christopher! thats ridiculous! thats ludacrisy!

how could she hurt luke like that! everyone is so happy that she and luke are getting back together soon, hopefully, ( and dont get me wrong, i am a total java junkie!) but look what she did to luke! he deserves more.. she owes him so much for doing what she did to him. she was a total fool.

i love her still though. please, dont get me wrong

I agree with you. Was Luke wrong? Yes. But I just think that the main cause of the break up wasn't Luke & April, it was Lorelai's own fears and insecurities. I still love Lorelai also.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 16, 2007, 03:24:47 pm
I completely agree. lors always had issues concerning relationships. hopefully this time she can find some comfort in luke. maybe he can be her beanbag chair.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 16, 2007, 03:39:45 pm
Off the great Lorelai/Luke debate (or at least I'm going off it, don't know who'll follow) for a moment.  I rewatched the scene where Rory confesses her crush to Logan.  I don't think Rory would be as frantic about turning into a monster over the crush if it wasn't for Paris' assertion that Logan was "broken."  I think she was afraid that she might be taking advantage of Logan and he'd let her.  I don't think it was vital to tell him, except for her own code of honor.  But, I'm glad she did, since it did bother her, and if she hadn't, she would have just continued to act weird.  It also makes sense that Logan didn't get upset partially because he's learned from his experience with the Marty debacle (people learning from their errors.  Wonderful) and partially because the circumstances are very different.  Logan's assumptions about Rory and Marty were completely erroneous, but they were more disturbing.  Rory and Marty had a history, and although there was nothing there on Rory's end, friendships do sometimes evolve to romance.  And, again, he thought that she was hidng it because it was no longer innocent.  I don't agree but I could see how he might have felt that way.  And, before Marty came back worse for wear, Rory liked him as a person.  To me, if you add in a hefty dose of imagination someone Rory already cares about is a much bigger threat than someone she merely thinks is good looking.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: conradv on February 16, 2007, 03:48:53 pm
I saw it as Rory might be petrified that somehow Logan would somehow find out about her "crush" and just up and leave her, after the Marty deal.  So she figured she'd be open about it.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 16, 2007, 04:10:53 pm
Laurla205, I agree that Luke was wrong for keeping April a secret, and for not letting Lorelai see her, I'm not saying he was right. What I'm saying is that I can understand why he did it, and that Lorelai, being who she is and the experiences she went through, should have also.
That’s all I was looking to hear :)

I agree that Luke had the right to make his own decision about having a relationship with April.  I just could have been handled better all around.  It’s odd to not discuss that with your fiancé.  Just as Lorelai could have handled it better and spoke up in a less threatening way about her concerns.  They both thought they were going about it in a delicate way and what would be best when if either of them had just spoke up sooner it could have resulted in a very different outcome.  It’s just that these issues are the cause of their own deeper personal flaws and they can obviously snowball.  If neither is willing to work on it for themselves neither will go anywhere in their love life because when life throws the many curveballs it’s known to throw they’ll have the same barriers every time. 

To be fair Lorelai didn’t even think about Rory herself or I should say she didn’t come to terms with it herself for a while.  Of course there were thoughts of her, but she wasn’t working through the situation.  She had decided on her course of action and the stuck to it, it was her way or the highway (no pun intended). 

A Vinyard Valentine re-aired on ABC Family, because it was Valentine's Day.
Well don’t I feel silly :)  I stick to my opinion on why he suggested eloping and that it wasn’t a plan that was necessarily going to be put into action.  On that we’ll have to agree to disagree.  And most of the rest of it because I’m sure we’ll be discussing it all over again soon all though I will be on my best behavior and try to stay away from the subject

I saw it as Rory might be petrified that somehow Logan would somehow find out about her "crush" and just up and leave her, after the Marty deal.  So she figured she'd be open about it.

*sighs* Being open and honest up front in order to avoid any mixed signals and misunderstandings, it’s a beautiful thing. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 16, 2007, 04:16:28 pm
yes it is a beautiful thing! i wish my boyfriend could be like that!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: gilmore_gal on February 16, 2007, 04:31:52 pm
Since I recently lost a pet, I know how Michele feels, I think having the memorial was a great idea and when Lor said,

"We'll put him in a box..."
"A box?!?!?"
"A bag?"
"A bag?!?!?"
"Sorry, animal disposal isn't my area..."

Made me laugh so hard! ;D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 16, 2007, 05:05:10 pm
what ever happened to paul anka?  that was a pretty careless mistake if you ask me.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 16, 2007, 05:15:40 pm
What bugs me about the L's fault/L's fault war is that it makes no sense. There isn't anyone to blame, both characters were doing what they though was best for April, each other, and themselves. Lorelai can't be with a man who won't tell her what the plan is, and Luke can't be with a woman who can't outwait his grinding mental cogs. She was miserable with him, but he wasn't doing anything wrong, so she broke up with him. What's to find fault with?

Yeah, I guess she's a wimp and a copout if it was her mission in life to be married to Luke, and Luke is a jerk and a holdout if his mission in life was to be married to Lorelai, but that wasn't the case for either one. Why does it have to be someone's fault they broke up just because we know they'll "end up" together?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 16, 2007, 05:58:26 pm
i dont think that Lorelai was miserable with him by any means. you wanna see her miserable with someone-- look at christopher


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 16, 2007, 06:00:46 pm
What bugs me about the L's fault/L's fault war is that it makes no sense. There isn't anyone to blame, both characters were doing what they though was best for April, each other, and themselves. Lorelai can't be with a man who won't tell her what the plan is, and Luke can't be with a woman who can't outwait his grinding mental cogs. She was miserable with him, but he wasn't doing anything wrong, so she broke up with him. What's to find fault with?

Yeah, I guess she's a wimp and a copout if it was her mission in life to be married to Luke, and Luke is a jerk and a holdout if his mission in life was to be married to Lorelai, but that wasn't the case for either one. Why does it have to be someone's fault they broke up just because we know they'll "end up" together?

Thank you for this post!!  I am so sick of who's fault it is.  People can argue until they are blue in the face and people will still choice to take sides in this debate.  Can't we all just say they are both to blame.  Not everyone is perfect, people make mistakes and do things they are not proud of.  These characters are only human!! They acted upon their emotions and did the things they needed to do.  Luke neglected to tell Lorelai about April for many reason that have been argued over and over and Lorelai hide how she truly felt and this caused her to act impulsively and give Luke an ultimatum.  If they do get back together will any of this matter??


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 16, 2007, 06:08:03 pm
i think they might have had a chance of staying together if Lor hadnt of been so crazy with insecurites
she always has had problems with relationships.
yes, luke messed up, but lor knew deep down he loved her and was willing to wait
if she hadnt have been to retarded, she would have waited


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: libmeister2 on February 16, 2007, 06:13:46 pm
I am so happy that Loreali and Christoper are no longer together, they were never meant to be with each other it has always been Luke and Loreali.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: 10yugiohking on February 16, 2007, 08:13:33 pm
it was so sad


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: willowsprite on February 16, 2007, 09:28:24 pm
Since I recently lost a pet, I know how Michele feels, I think having the memorial was a great idea and when Lor said,

"We'll put him in a box..."
"A box?!?!?"
"A bag?"
"A bag?!?!?"
"Sorry, animal disposal isn't my area..."

Made me laugh so hard! ;D
I too could understand where Michel was coming from, in fact I applaud him with being so open with his grief for Chin Chin.  Many people, and they played on this in the epi, don't get the bond some (including me) have with their pets.  I'd have loved for someone to plan a memorial when my last cat died.  And it bugged me a bit that Lorelei didn't seem to get it, how would she have handled Paul Anka's passing, I wonder?

What bugs me about the L's fault/L's fault war is that it makes no sense.. . . Yeah, I guess she's a wimp and a copout if it was her mission in life to be married to Luke, and Luke is a jerk and a holdout if his mission in life was to be married to Lorelai, but that wasn't the case for either one. Why does it have to be someone's fault they broke up just because we know they'll "end up" together?
Right on--we lose sight of this at times.  We can see things the characters don't, like Luke's look while Lorelei's letter was read, or Lorelei's looks at Luke.  Last season, I kept telling Luke that Lorelei wasn't okay with the postponement, even though she told him it was okay, but he didn't listen.  ;)

Off the great Lorelai/Luke debate (or at least I'm going off it, don't know who'll follow) for a moment.  I rewatched the scene where Rory confesses her crush to Logan.  I don't think Rory would be as frantic about turning into a monster over the crush if it wasn't for Paris' assertion that Logan was "broken."  I think she was afraid that she might be taking advantage of Logan and he'd let her.  I don't think it was vital to tell him, except for her own code of honor.  But, I'm glad she did, since it did bother her, and if she hadn't, she would have just continued to act weird.

Yeah, I think she took exception that she had completely taken away Logan's autonomy.  It crossed my mind that the 'crush' was perhaps due to Paris' suggestion somehow, perhaps just as the two scenes were in close proximity, don't have any real evidence of this.



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: pm12_88 on February 16, 2007, 09:42:01 pm
I get what you mean, suddenly when Paris says that he won't bolt and everything she questions herself and asks "would i bolt?"
I hope that there isn't more of the crush thing, Rory needs some better storylines. We still don't know what she's doing after this year, I'm not sure she knows, although i'm pretty sure this will be explored.


In the L/L's fault debate, it wasn't just one, they both went a bit crazy. I suppose when you think, this is it, its exactly what I want they didn't want to stuff it up and because of this stop communicating and that leads to stuffing it up. They need to start talking properly.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 16, 2007, 10:12:53 pm
Luke and Lorelai definitely need to start communicating better. This was was their Achilles heal.  After all this is what all the debating has been about who is at fault.  Communication is the one to blame!  Lack of communication = broken relationship! Something has got to change in this department if we ever hope to see a relationship with them again.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 17, 2007, 07:10:37 am
I completely agree. lors always had issues concerning relationships. hopefully this time she can find some comfort in luke. maybe he can be her beanbag chair.

Exactly. Lorelai has always had issues, and she even told Christopher that she subconsciously sabotages her relationships because deep down she has that fantasy of the two of them, married and being a family with Rory. Well she lived that fantasy, and it wasn't what she wanted, so with that out of her system, I think this time she will be ready to be "All In" with Luke.

That’s all I was looking to hear :)

I've been saying that lol. The only I don't think is that Luke was the main reason for the break up. I think he contributed to it by feeding Lorelai's fears and insecurities, but in the end Lorelai destroyed another relationship.

I agree that Luke had the right to make his own decision about having a relationship with April.  I just could have been handled better all around.  It’s odd to not discuss that with your fiancé.  Just as Lorelai could have handled it better and spoke up in a less threatening way about her concerns.  They both thought they were going about it in a delicate way and what would be best when if either of them had just spoke up sooner it could have resulted in a very different outcome.  It’s just that these issues are the cause of their own deeper personal flaws and they can obviously snowball.  If neither is willing to work on it for themselves neither will go anywhere in their love life because when life throws the many curveballs it’s known to throw they’ll have the same barriers every time. 

But after Lorelai found out about April, he did share everything with her and asked if things were ok with her. Like when April called him to go on her trip to Philly, Luke wasn't going to go, because he thought him and Lorelai would have plans, and he shared this with Lorelai, and she told him that he should go, he asked if she was sure, and she said yes. When Anna gave him the bag, he told Lorelai and said he would send it back if she wanted him to, and she said no,  that she was alright with it. Lorelai was involved in Luke's life,  he always cleared things with her, and he asked if she was alright with things, and everytime she said yes. How was he suppose to know how she felt, if she wouldn't tell him, even though he was perfectly ok with her telling him how she felt about things.

To be fair Lorelai didn’t even think about Rory herself or I should say she didn’t come to terms with it herself for a while.  Of course there were thoughts of her, but she wasn’t working through the situation.  She had decided on her course of action and the stuck to it, it was her way or the highway (no pun intended). 

I agree with that, and that's where I have a problem with the "Well there was an event when Lorelai postponed the wedding". Yes there was an event, but Lorelai did nothing to achieve that event. In fact it was Jess, who convinced Rory, and how did Jess know about Rory? Luke. Luke did more to reconcile them then Lorelai did, and she didn't share any of her feeling or thoughts with Luke about Rory.

Well don’t I feel silly :)  I stick to my opinion on why he suggested eloping and that it wasn’t a plan that was necessarily going to be put into action.  On that we’ll have to agree to disagree.  And most of the rest of it because I’m sure we’ll be discussing it all over again soon all though I will be on my best behavior and try to stay away from the subject

I still maintain that he did intend to follow through with it, because of when and how it came up. At that point he had no reason to ease her mind anymore, or to pacify her. I think he really wanted to make it happen that summer. But I can agree to disagree.


what ever happened to paul anka?  that was a pretty careless mistake if you ask me.

I don't think so. Paul Anka is a very odd duck. He doesn't like to socialize, so Lorelai probably didn't think it would be his scene.

What bugs me about the L's fault/L's fault war is that it makes no sense. There isn't anyone to blame, both characters were doing what they though was best for April, each other, and themselves. Lorelai can't be with a man who won't tell her what the plan is, and Luke can't be with a woman who can't outwait his grinding mental cogs. She was miserable with him, but he wasn't doing anything wrong, so she broke up with him. What's to find fault with?

Yeah, I guess she's a wimp and a copout if it was her mission in life to be married to Luke, and Luke is a jerk and a holdout if his mission in life was to be married to Lorelai, but that wasn't the case for either one. Why does it have to be someone's fault they broke up just because we know they'll "end up" together?

Luke was sharing with Lorelai though. After he started seeing April, and Lorelai found out, he did tell Lorelai about everything. The only thing he didn't do was include her in on their time together, which is understandable, because he wanted a relationshipwith April first before she buil one ith Lorelai, which isn't too much to ask, esspecially given how Lorelai and Rory are, she should have understood that. And again Luke gave her so many opportunities to tell him she was upset, and she never spoke up.

i dont think that Lorelai was miserable with him by any means. you wanna see her miserable with someone-- look at christopher

Exactly. I just think she let her own issues come between them. But with Christopher, she was clearly not happy at all.

Thank you for this post!!  I am so sick of who's fault it is.  People can argue until they are blue in the face and people will still choice to take sides in this debate.  Can't we all just say they are both to blame.  Not everyone is perfect, people make mistakes and do things they are not proud of.  These characters are only human!! They acted upon their emotions and did the things they needed to do.  Luke neglected to tell Lorelai about April for many reason that have been argued over and over and Lorelai hide how she truly felt and this caused her to act impulsively and give Luke an ultimatum.  If they do get back together will any of this matter??

I agree with that. I just have a problem because so many people blame it all on Luke, when Lorelai in my opinion is more to blame, but gets none of it.

I also agree that when they get back together it won't be an issue ith either of them.

i think they might have had a chance of staying together if Lor hadnt of been so crazy with insecurites
she always has had problems with relationships.
yes, luke messed up, but lor knew deep down he loved her and was willing to wait
if she hadnt have been to retarded, she would have waited

I agree with most of that, except Lorelai being retarded. I just think her insecurites were flamed by that quack of a shrink.

I am so happy that Loreali and Christoper are no longer together, they were never meant to be with each other it has always been Luke and Loreali.

Agree 100%

Luke and Lorelai definitely need to start communicating better. This was was their Achilles heal.  After all this is what all the debating has been about who is at fault.  Communication is the one to blame!  Lack of communication = broken relationship! Something has got to change in this department if we ever hope to see a relationship with them again.

Ahh yes, but see Luke was communicating. He told her all about what he was doing with April and what was going on there. He also ran things by her and asked if things were ok. Lorelai is the one who didn't communicte how she felt.

Now am I the only one who found Michele's reaction to Chin Chin's death ironically amusing way?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 17, 2007, 08:14:11 am


i think they might have had a chance of staying together if Lor hadnt of been so crazy with insecurites
she always has had problems with relationships.
yes, luke messed up, but lor knew deep down he loved her and was willing to wait
if she hadnt have been to retarded, she would have waited

I agree with most of that, except Lorelai being retarded. I just think her insecurites were flamed by that quack of a shrink.

Quote


i didnt mean retarded. i totally agree that the whole shrink thing messed her up a little bit.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 17, 2007, 08:16:11 am
I'll be one of the first to admit that the L/L fault debate gets tiring.  The lack of communication is at the center of it.  Since this season is about the characters reevaluating themselves and making changes for the better it only makes sense some of the problems would have to be discussed.  If not discussed at least resolved one way or another.  I’m sure there will not be anywhere near as much detail about it on the show as what we go into here.  But hopefully there will be a satisfying resolution at least for the characters themselves.  

What bugs me about the L's fault/L's fault war is that it makes no sense. There isn't anyone to blame, both characters were doing what they though was best for April, each other, and themselves. Lorelai can't be with a man who won't tell her what the plan is, and Luke can't be with a woman who can't outwait his grinding mental cogs. She was miserable with him, but he wasn't doing anything wrong, so she broke up with him. What's to find fault with?

Yeah, I guess she's a wimp and a copout if it was her mission in life to be married to Luke, and Luke is a jerk and a holdout if his mission in life was to be married to Lorelai, but that wasn't the case for either one. Why does it have to be someone's fault they broke up just because we know they'll "end up" together?

Great point!  I guess it is the fact that we do believe they’ll end up together that makes it such a big deal to us (maybe just me, I can’t speak for anyone else).  Looking at it as just any old break up makes it much easier to swallow.  Human nature makes us want to point the finger at someone specifically.  


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 17, 2007, 08:30:44 am
Luke and Lorelai definitely need to start communicating better. This was was their Achilles heal.  After all this is what all the debating has been about who is at fault.  Communication is the one to blame!  Lack of communication = broken relationship! Something has got to change in this department if we ever hope to see a relationship with them again.

Ahh yes, but see Luke was communicating. He told her all about what he was doing with April and what was going on there. He also ran things by her and asked if things were ok. Lorelai is the one who didn't communicte how she felt.


Yes he did tell her, but he waited 2 months.  Way too long. And I know people claim he had many reason why he waited or that the timing wasn't right but still he has to take some blame.  And yes I agree Lor communication sucked.  I feel like Lorelai was not being herself the entire 6th season.  That is why I dislike season 6 so much.  Lorelai has always been the type to not hold back how she feels.  She just sat around pretending that everything was ok, when obviously it wasn't.  Then acted irrational and gave luke an ultimatum.  Season 6 is too much to bear.  I cannot watch it because of this fact.



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 17, 2007, 11:50:43 am
^

ive been saying that the entire season six was ridiculous. everything was off! Lorelai was acting like a completely different person- since when does she keep her feelings in?? Lorelais ultimatum was irrational, but, as ive said before, we all know how unstable Lorelai is when it comes to her relationships. But, still, she should have told Luke her feelings on the subject of the marriage and april, and maybe then they would have had a chance. Unfortunatly, Lorelai was totally different in season six. maybe if it had been a different season she would have talked to Luke about her feelings instead of the unltimatum and then the Ridiculous cheating on him with christopher. that little ashjhafjhsdfkjshdflkajsdh cought her at a weak moment and finally got what he always  has wanted. look at everytime he comes around! he always tries to get her in bed. im gonna stop there. haha. dont wanna start that rant again. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 17, 2007, 12:46:25 pm

Yes he did tell her, but he waited 2 months.  Way too long. And I know people claim he had many reason why he waited or that the timing wasn't right but still he has to take some blame.  And yes I agree Lor communication sucked.  I feel like Lorelai was not being herself the entire 6th season.  That is why I dislike season 6 so much.  Lorelai has always been the type to not hold back how she feels.  She just sat around pretending that everything was ok, when obviously it wasn't.  Then acted irrational and gave luke an ultimatum.  Season 6 is too much to bear.  I cannot watch it because of this fact.

It also took him those 2-months to come to terms with the fact that he had a 12-year old daughter. Her problem wasn't with that, her and Rory talked about it and they both realized it was what Luke had to do, and they were ok with it. What Lorelai was upset about was that he wouldn't let her be apart of their bonding (yet), and that he postponed the wedding, which I think was the main reason she was upset.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: xxLL4Everxx on February 17, 2007, 12:49:45 pm
I agree with Luke Danes Fan Lorelai was most upset because Luke wanted to postpone the wedding.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 17, 2007, 01:15:16 pm

Yes he did tell her, but he waited 2 months.  Way too long. And I know people claim he had many reason why he waited or that the timing wasn't right but still he has to take some blame.  And yes I agree Lor communication sucked.  I feel like Lorelai was not being herself the entire 6th season.  That is why I dislike season 6 so much.  Lorelai has always been the type to not hold back how she feels.  She just sat around pretending that everything was ok, when obviously it wasn't.  Then acted irrational and gave luke an ultimatum.  Season 6 is too much to bear.  I cannot watch it because of this fact.

It also took him those 2-months to come to terms with the fact that he had a 12-year old daughter. Her problem wasn't with that, her and Rory talked about it and they both realized it was what Luke had to do, and they were ok with it. What Lorelai was upset about was that he wouldn't let her be apart of their bonding (yet), and that he postponed the wedding, which I think was the main reason she was upset.


I am in agreement with you here.  I do not think Luke not telling her about his daughter was the only reason she was so upset.  The life she had been planning for was put on hold.  April came along and the picture changed.  All Lorelai wanted was to be apart of Luke's life. Lorelai supported Luke's decision to be part of April's and she never wanted to change that.   But he made the choice to not let Lorelai in.  She had no control over this and it caused her to act irrationally.  She just wanted to marry the man of her dreams. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Twilight506 on February 17, 2007, 01:19:55 pm
This is my first time posting here, but I wanted to just share my two cents on this whole L/L, C/L fiasco that has been cooked up by the writers.  The truth is, while it's horrible what happened at the end of season six, the writers never had to let the Christopher situation go this far.  Marriage?  Really?  Was that necessary?

The frustrating thing for me (being a married woman) is how lightly marriage is treated by the writers (portrayed through the characters).  My problem - I'm not sure I believe Lorelai would be able to stay married to Luke.  A breaking up of a marriage (even a short one) isn't like breaking up with your boyfriend.  She made promises.  And again she's breaking promises.  I was gung-ho about the L/L relationship for a long time, but this has created ambivalence.  I don't have faith in the Lorelai character.  She's weak of character.  When things get hard, she sleeps with Chris.  When things are rough she can't speak up and have an honest adult communication.  She's almost forty.  At twenty-four I have better communication skills than she does. 

Does anyone else feel uneasy about the L/L relationship now?  Sort of like it's been tainted?  I might be alone in this opinion... but I'll keep watching to see if the writers can write themselves out of this predicament.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 17, 2007, 01:36:35 pm
Twilight506, I see where your coming from, but I don't agree with it. Lorelai has always sabotaged her relationships because there was always a part of her that wanted that perfect family image of her and Christopher married and being a family with Rory. If she would have married Luke before, there would always be that Christopher fantasy in her head. Now that she had that fantasy, and saw that it wasn't what she always dreamed it would be, when she does marry Luke she will have no doubts whatsoever. I think when her and Luke get married their marriage will be strong because Christopher is no longer an obstacle.


   


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 17, 2007, 01:43:33 pm
This is my first time posting here, but I wanted to just share my two cents on this whole L/L, C/L fiasco that has been cooked up by the writers.  The truth is, while it's horrible what happened at the end of season six, the writers never had to let the Christopher situation go this far.  Marriage?  Really?  Was that necessary?

The frustrating thing for me (being a married woman) is how lightly marriage is treated by the writers (portrayed through the characters).  My problem - I'm not sure I believe Lorelai would be able to stay married to Luke.  A breaking up of a marriage (even a short one) isn't like breaking up with your boyfriend.  She made promises.  And again she's breaking promises.  I was gung-ho about the L/L relationship for a long time, but this has created ambivalence.  I don't have faith in the Lorelai character.  She's weak of character.  When things get hard, she sleeps with Chris.  When things are rough she can't speak up and have an honest adult communication.  She's almost forty.  At twenty-four I have better communication skills than she does. 

Does anyone else feel uneasy about the L/L relationship now?  Sort of like it's been tainted?  I might be alone in this opinion... but I'll keep watching to see if the writers can write themselves out of this predicament.
 

Welcome to the forum.  I am in agreement with you about the whole marriage issue.  Marriage is a big deal and a life changing event that takes work!  I am a JJ and want them to get back together but I feel like she didn't put much effort into the marriage the with Chris.  I understand she still has feelings for luke but she hide those and let the marriage continue and she "jumped."  Now she is giving in a saying this marriage will never work.  I think I stated this in a way earlier post but the writers have a big task at hand if they plan on getting luke and Lorelai back together.  If they cannot come up with something creative I feel like the moment will not be what it should!!  All the JJ are expecting something big and if they cannot deliver the relationship will never be the same!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 17, 2007, 02:40:15 pm
Does anyone else feel uneasy about the L/L relationship now?  Sort of like it's been tainted?  I might be alone in this opinion... but I'll keep watching to see if the writers can write themselves out of this predicament.

Yeah, I remember back in the beginning when it was nothing but the pure honest tones of them screaming in the street over a car accident. Or him moving in with Nicole. Lorelai has always been insecure of losing Luke, and he has always been elusive and secretive. I don't think there is a depth to which either could sink and not plausibly be forgiven after the amount they've been through together.

Furthermore, Lorelai has repeatedly been shown to repress her feelings for the sake of a child's. She has never expressed a single sentiment against April's existence, any more than she has of Rory's. And if Luke's relationship with Rory really didn't change during the whole Dean/Jess/Dean/Logan thing and the Max/Jess/Fishing/Skippy/Nicole/Jason/Christopher/Christopher/Christopher thing, he would have to have been the same way.

He obviously missed Lorelai on the road trip when he had dressed inappropriately and felt uncomfortable around other talkative adults. Who knows how much he wanted her help but couldn't ask because he was walking a fine line? No one, that's who, because he's Luke.

Luke must have realized by now that everything Lorelai said of him in the letter was true of her as well. As ponderous as the situation was, Lorelai had a lot to offer April, and whatever his reasons, he made a mistake depriving them of each other's company.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 17, 2007, 11:08:56 pm
Merr, yeah I meant to finish my post from earlier...like page 17 earlier.  Um, not really doing that.  Reading all these posts though, it's exhausting.  Don't get me wrong, I could discuss GG until I'm blue in the face.  Which is why this board ROCKS because it feeds my addiction when the show isn't...you know...on.  I could especially discuss Luke and Lorelei for-eva because they're my favorite couple in the show.  The greatest personalities, a great dynamic, it's the central romance of the entire series, they crack me up, and I love them both -- especially together.  I know it may seem redundant to some to constantly come back to this issue of L/L, but I can see why.  Again, this romance has existed since day one.  We, as constant viewers, have watched it grow.  It has been key to the overall plot development, with much of the subplot revolving around their little nexis of romantic/sexual tension.  Of course, everyone knows that it is Lorelei and Rory whom the show ACTUALLY revolves around...Gilmore GIRLS, not two Gilmore Girls and their men.  But you know what I mean.  At this moment, the mother and daughter dynamic are fine, leaving us annoying-message-board-writers to dwell on the intracies of their separate romantic liasons.  And personally, I think Luke and Lorelei are far more interesting. 

Don't get me wrong Logan-lovers, Mr. Huntzberger is a cutie.  But personally, I think he's only transient.  Dean was the center of Rory's world back in seasons 1-3.  And Jess?  One bad boy everyone fell in love with.  For me, Logan is just a boyfriend.  They have a great relationship, and Rory is (of course) more mature than ever -- lending her relationship with Logan a very adult air.  But is it going anywhere?  I don't know...  When I think of Gilmore Girls, as a whole, I see Rory's boyfriends as tools to aid in her development as a mature, INDEPENDENT young woman.  Each young man is different, and each helps her to grow in different ways.  When you're young, everyone that enters your life changes you in some way.  Dean and Jess helped her in that journey.  But they were transient, they're gone...and except for a bad choice of a "fling" (ugh, think season 5) and a random appearance in season 6...they're not coming back.  I'm sorry people, but Logan is no different.  Dean and Jess were JUST as important characters in their hey-day as Logan is now.  Sure they've been together for awhile now, but does the equate to "oh, they're soulmates?"  I don't think so.  Again, the thing to remember as the end of the series draws near (either this year or next), is the show's arc as a whole.  Who are the characters that have been constant?  One -- Lorelei and Rory.  Lorelei and Luke.  Rory and Paris (yes, Paris is a constant -- she's been around longer than ANY of Rory's boyfriends).  Richard and Emily.  The Gilmores and "the town."  These are the characters that last.  Logan, Dean and Jess are important, but they're not forever.  Honestly, I would be seriously disappointed in the show's writers if the whisperings around this board came true...if Logan "proposed" to Rory in the near future.  Rory is the last person to leave this show married.  She wants to be Christina Amanpour.  She wants to be successful.  I'm NOT saying that you can't have that when you're married.  But married implies some sort of finality.  Some sort of settling ground.  Rory should move around, travel, see the world, be SINGLE.  Don't settle...not yet, Rory.  My point is, I know Logan is Mr. Popular right now (and with those suave moves, how can he not be?).  But what makes him special?  What makes him last?  What makes a him a Luke?

Which brings me back to my MAIN point after quite the long tangent.  Sorry about that.  My point is, we can discuss these tiny, minute issues until we're blue in the face.  I have a great example of that...just look at my ramblings up above.  But it's important to remember the arc of the show, no matter how polluted we think it may be with bad writing, dishonest representations of the characters...whatever.  This is ONE story.  Was Luke wrong for the whole April fiasco?  Yes.  Was Lorelei wrong for giving him an ultimatum in the middle of the street, then sleeping with Christopher t-minus 30 minutes later?  Yes.  But isn't it OBVIOUS that Luke and Lorelei are meant to be???  YES.  I know that, if my advice is taken, a lot of discussion would be stifled...my own included (watch me, Tuesday night I'll be right back on the L/L discussion bandwagon).  But I feel the need to bring this issue up. 

Personally, I can't wait for them to finally get back together.  They're one of my favorite romantic couples -- ever.  Definately on TV (because I don't watch enough TV) and also in literary history.  They're fun to watch.  They have a great relationship.  They're funny.  They're not sappy or annoying.  They're not static.  They're quirky.  They're adorable.  She's beautiful and he's handsome.  They're so fated, destiny nearly falls into their laps everytime they have a conversation.  The tension is fabulous -- the looks, the sideways glances, the meaningful words, the jealousy, etc.  And so, when they finally came together in season 5, it was like a cresendo of happiness erupted in my...um, place where my fictional romances live.  I need that feeling back.  Pass me off as one-minded Java Junkie if you like, but my girlish sentiments desperately crave a happy ending.  A satisfying romantic end to one fabulous story.  So don't be so jaded L/L doubters.  Yeah, realistically they don't have the greatest past.  And maybe they both deserve to eternally rot in the cave of singleness for the atrocities they've committed.  But I want to see them happy.  I want to see Lorelei happy -- definately.  We've been rooting for her since day one.  But I think Luke deserves our love as well.  He's been there since the first day and we've watched him grow throughout the years.  Liz, Jess, Taylor, April...the man has a permanant storyline in this show, whether you like it or not.  He's not just "some diner guy" we can write off as Lorelei's friend.  He's LUKE.  And I'm in love with him.  And so I want him to be happy as well. 

Wow, super long post.  Sorry about that.  It's late, and I'm tired.  Thanks for reading this far if you actually made it. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: echoia on February 17, 2007, 11:27:01 pm
This is my first time posting here, but I wanted to just share my two cents on this whole L/L, C/L fiasco that has been cooked up by the writers.  The truth is, while it's horrible what happened at the end of season six, the writers never had to let the Christopher situation go this far.  Marriage?  Really?  Was that necessary?

The frustrating thing for me (being a married woman) is how lightly marriage is treated by the writers (portrayed through the characters).  My problem - I'm not sure I believe Lorelai would be able to stay married to Luke.  A breaking up of a marriage (even a short one) isn't like breaking up with your boyfriend.  She made promises.  And again she's breaking promises.  I was gung-ho about the L/L relationship for a long time, but this has created ambivalence.  I don't have faith in the Lorelai character.  She's weak of character.  When things get hard, she sleeps with Chris.  When things are rough she can't speak up and have an honest adult communication.  She's almost forty.  At twenty-four I have better communication skills than she does. 

Does anyone else feel uneasy about the L/L relationship now?  Sort of like it's been tainted?  I might be alone in this opinion... but I'll keep watching to see if the writers can write themselves out of this predicament.

I agree about them getting married. I keep reading about, 'ASP left the team in this spot with the season finale'. Well, she didn't -marry- them, and I really thought that Lorelai and Christopher even getting together past that night seemed SOOOO forced. It was extremely boring to me.

Luke's been married too, though. For less than a year, I think? So it's not just Lorelai. Though his wife was sleeping(?) with someone else while they were together : /


I don't think people who don't want to be together should stay together, though. If anything I'm more concerned with how lightly people (not just the writers) enter into marriage, not how swiftly they exit. If you really have to fight to stay together you probably shouldn't've gotten hitched : P And no one should stay miserable in a marriage. Either fix it or leave, if Lorelai (in this case) doesn't want to stay with Chris she shouldn't waste 8 years of his life trying to fix something she really doesn't want in her heart. He'd have to start his life all over AGAIN at almost 50.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 18, 2007, 01:00:10 am
What a great post, LovelyLaura! I'm not sure I agree 100% but you definitely put the joy back into the oncoming inevitable. :)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Fantasy on February 18, 2007, 05:04:33 am
Okay, I am not sure if I have my dates in order, so if this didn't happen, firstly, I apologize.

Didn't Rory kiss Jess when she was with Logan? Why the need to tell about the fliriting when she never said "Logan, I kissed my ex-boyfriend". (Or did she tell him?) Anyway, I know that Logan would be mad about her kissing Jess, maybe, because Jess might pose as a threat. I just don't like how shes all "Oh my! I looked at someone else" flakey-ish kind of to me.

Eh. I adore Logan though.
And great episode.
Heh.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 18, 2007, 06:53:27 am

Welcome to the forum.  I am in agreement with you about the whole marriage issue.  Marriage is a big deal and a life changing event that takes work!  I am a JJ and want them to get back together but I feel like she didn't put much effort into the marriage the with Chris.  I understand she still has feelings for luke but she hide those and let the marriage continue and she "jumped."  Now she is giving in a saying this marriage will never work.  I think I stated this in a way earlier post but the writers have a big task at hand if they plan on getting luke and Lorelai back together.  If they cannot come up with something creative I feel like the moment will not be what it should!!  All the JJ are expecting something big and if they cannot deliver the relationship will never be the same!

But why should they fake a marriage? Lorelai didn't just "give in" either. She did so many things to make the marriage work. She let GiGi share Rory's room, which was hard for Lorelai to do, but she did it. She let Christopher change her and Rory's Christmas Traditions. She wanted Christopher to feel welcomed in Stars Hollow, so she set him up on a Mandate with Jackson. She stopped getting coffeeand food from Luke's, while this may seem small to most people, this is huge for Lorelai, we've seen how hard it is for her to do without that. She wouldn't mention Luke or anything about them in front of Christopher, which again we know is hard. She worked hard to keep that marriage together. It was Christopher who gave up. He's the one who stormed out of the house, because he found the letter. He shut off his cell phone. He wasn't there for her when she needed him, then got pissed because Luke was. He didn't see if Lorelai, and Rory were okay, instead he decided it would a good ideato take a shot at Luke. Then he only stays for an hour, and again severs all contact with Lorelai. Lorelai only ended it because she knew it was over.

LovelyLaura, Great post! You have to love the Luke-Like rants :) I agree with you on how important Luke is to the show, if you go back to the first episode, we meet Lorelai, and then before we meet Rory, we meet Luke. Even Emily said that Luke is the male lead in every story Lorelai told. Luke has always been a big focus of the show.

ASP once said that the network wanted to do a spin-off with Luke and she ask if they were crazy or something, because he is going to wind up with Lorelai. From the very beginning Luke was set up as "The One" for Lorelai.

Fantasy, Rory and Jess did kiss in Philadelphia when she went to his event. She felt bad afterwards and mentioned that she couldn't even cheat on Logan, even though he cheated on her, which lead us to believe that she went there with some kind of intention, even though it was Jess who kissed her.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Alexandria on February 18, 2007, 07:16:19 am
Okay, I am not sure if I have my dates in order, so if this didn't happen, firstly, I apologize.

Didn't Rory kiss Jess when she was with Logan? Why the need to tell about the fliriting when she never said "Logan, I kissed my ex-boyfriend". (Or did she tell him?) Anyway, I know that Logan would be mad about her kissing Jess, maybe, because Jess might pose as a threat. I just don't like how shes all "Oh my! I looked at someone else" flakey-ish kind of to me.

Eh. I adore Logan though.
And great episode.
Heh.

Rory kisses Jess in season 6 episode called "The Real Paul Anka." But she does it in an attempt to try and cheat on him for being hurt at finding out at Honor's wedding about the bridesmaids whom Logan slept with while they were broken up. (Well, to Logan they were broken up but to Rory it was just a fight.) But she pulls back during the kiss with Jess and says that she feels too guilty to even kiss someone else. As consolation, Jess tells her that she could tell Logan that they did more if it would make her feel better.

I agree though that the "confession" to Logan seemed a bit flakey, not to mention that it made it sound like it was her first relationship or something. It's not like she slept with the TA. I can't believe that while dating Dean, Jess and Logan she's never come across another guy whom she's found attractive, but just left it at that.

Or maybe (and I doubt this since the writers this season don't seem to be sticking to the history and dynamics of previous seasons very much), Rory associates attraction to someone else as the potential or inevitability for cheating. Consider her own dating history: While dating Dean (for the second time) she became attracted to Jess. She and Dean eventually broke up and she got together with Jess. Dean, while married to Lindsay, was still attracted to Rory and slept with her (her first time) and his marriage was eventually on the rocks over it.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 18, 2007, 07:44:42 am
Rory didn't tell Logan about the kiss, but her silence could have been due to the fact that the next time she saw Logan he was in the hospital.

I agree though that the "confession" to Logan seemed a bit flakey, not to mention that it made it sound like it was her first relationship or something. It's not like she slept with the TA. I can't believe that while dating Dean, Jess and Logan she's never come across another guy whom she's found attractive, but just left it at that.

Well it was while she was with Dean she met Jess and found him attractive. Then while she was with Dean after his marriage fell apart, she found Logan attractive. SHe flirted with both guys while she was with Dean.

Or maybe (and I doubt this since the writers this season don't seem to be sticking to the history and dynamics of previous seasons very much), Rory associates attraction to someone else as the potential or inevitability for cheating. Consider her own dating history: While dating Dean (for the second time) she became attracted to Jess. She and Dean eventually broke up and she got together with Jess. Dean, while married to Lindsay, was still attracted to Rory and slept with her (her first time) and his marriage was eventually on the rocks over it.

Well given Rory's dating history one would agree with her. While dating Dean, Rory was attracted to Jess, and the two flirted big time. Jess and Rory even kissed at Sookie's Wedding, while she was still with Dean. She came back from Washington, and was still attracted and flirting with Jess, which caused her and Dean to break up, and then her and Jess started dating.

While Dean was married, Rory still found him attractive, and the two had an affair, that led to the desolution of his marriage with Lindsay.

After Lindsay and Dean seperated, Rory and him starting dating again, enter Logan. Rory was attracted to Logan and the two began flirting with each other, which led to her and Dean breaking up. Then her and Logan started seeing each other, which led them into dating.

So perhaps Rory saw a pattern of behavior on her end and thought she would stop it before it ended her relationship as it did with her past relationships with Dean. So I think the writers are actually honoring her history with men, and showing how she has grown through her experiences through the years, and her relationships.



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 18, 2007, 08:43:11 am

But why should they fake a marriage? Lorelai didn't just "give in" either. She did so many things to make the marriage work. She let GiGi share Rory's room, which was hard for Lorelai to do, but she did it. She let Christopher change her and Rory's Christmas Traditions. She wanted Christopher to feel welcomed in Stars Hollow, so she set him up on a Mandate with Jackson. She stopped getting coffeeand food from Luke's, while this may seem small to most people, this is huge for Lorelai, we've seen how hard it is for her to do without that. She wouldn't mention Luke or anything about them in front of Christopher, which again we know is hard. She worked hard to keep that marriage together. It was Christopher who gave up. He's the one who stormed out of the house, because he found the letter. He shut off his cell phone. He wasn't there for her when she needed him, then got pissed because Luke was. He didn't see if Lorelai, and Rory were okay, instead he decided it would a good ideato take a shot at Luke. Then he only stays for an hour, and again severs all contact with Lorelai. Lorelai only ended it because she knew it was over.


They shouldn't fake a marriage.  I understand what you are saying and maybe I should have worded it better in a previous post.  Lorelai did try and I giver her so much credit.  She wanted it to work desperately.  Even at the end of last week Lorelai said she was willing to try even though there was feelings for Luke.  I do not think Chris just gave up ( ya he acted like a real jerk) but he knew he would never be a number one, he couldn't live with that as much as he loves Lor.  I guess maybe what i am trying to argue is the writing.  I felt like they rushed them into getting married and after a little bit of drama they call it quits.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: #1GilmoreGirl on February 18, 2007, 09:48:32 am
Yay! Lorelai and Chris might break up! I hope she gets back together with Luke! I kind of thought that this season was a little different than all the others and not really as good, but hopefully it will get better. But like when Lorelai was mad because Luke didn't want to marry her right away, she gave him an ultimatum and didn't let him think about things but he just found out that he had a daughter that he never knew about so she should have gave him a little more time. And he probably didn't tell her about April because maybe he thought it would mess up the relationship which was wrong and it did mess it up, but still. And she rushed into marrying Chris too fast probably because she thought it was really over for her and Luke. But it's not! Yay!!
 :drink: :celebrate: :dance: :hearts: :pizza: :coffee:


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: #1GilmoreGirl on February 18, 2007, 09:50:09 am
Hey by the way, where do you get that "I support Gilmore Girls season 8" thingy? Cuz I want it


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: morgan.richman on February 18, 2007, 10:00:31 am
this is my favorite episode all season...
i love seeing lauren graham's face when playing "my heart will go on" at the funeral...
and the ending of the marriage with lor and chris is amazing...
"i want you to know...you're the man i want to want"
its the perfect line to describe their relationship.



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Southern Lorelai on February 18, 2007, 11:40:28 am
I have quite a few thoughts on this episode... it was by far one of my favorites! It just hit a whole lot of aspects in 60 minutes!

MIchel was classic Michel... an arrogant pain in the butt who can talk down the nose to people but gets easily offended when someone calls him out on something. Those  dogs are absolutely beautiful! I did think that it was sweet to have a memorial for Chin Chin... the programs are a little bit over-the-top, though! I wouldn't exactly compare a Chow to Princess Diana.

I just love the talk that Sookie had with Lorelai about "If there was no Luke, would Christopher still be the one?" THat's just amazing how that struck a big nerve for Lorelai. She really tried to hide it; we could all tell that she wanted to say that he wouldn't be the one. Sookie is wonderful! I'm so glad that the two of them remained close through all the years. She is a great best friend to Lorelai. I'm glad that they were able to figure out a way to make Sookie pregnant, so Melisa McCarthey wouldn't have to hide her real pregnancy too much!

My heart just goes out to Lorelai. I think that "self-destructive" is the perfect adjective for her. Rory said it best when she said "Maybe we just don't want to be happy." Lorelai tried to be happy with everyone that wasn't right for her - Christopher, Max, Christopher Alex, Jason, and Christopher again. She was delierously (spell?) happy with Luke, but she said so herself that it just felt too right. I think that she's so scared of Love and being loved by the only person who can love her in the right way. I'm still rooting for her and Luke. BTW, what the heck does F.A.I.T.H. mean?? I've been trying to figure that one out since I joined the forum last year!! ANy help with that would really be appreciated! Thanks! :)

As for the L-L-C love triangle, I have a few comments. I really hope that Lorelai doesn't go back to Luke right away. (Come on, we all know that LUke is the one that she'll be with - Thank God!) I think that it'll be to casual and "soap-opera-like" if she does that. I hope that it will be very gradual... we can start by Lorelai ACTUALLY GOING INTO LUKE'S DINER!!!! (That made me so mad when she didn't go in with Michel!) I think that she and LUke will need to have a discussion saying that they still love each other. I'm sure that Lorelai thinks that Luke could never love her again after what she did, and vice versa. I also actually think that Christopher will bow out gracefully. He hasn't been a total jerk this episode. I really hope that he's adult about it!

Rory and Logan are the best couple on the show. I really liked Dean and Jess... but Logan is just right for Rory. She changed him in a very good way. He's now very worldly, and while that is not ALL because of Rory, she can take some credit. I just love how he says "I love you" as much as he can, and other things like, "I wouldn't be anywhere but here with you." She loves Logan so much that she tells him when she flirts with another man. His response was the greatest. Of course, you'll find other people attractive... it's human nature. I would be seriously worried if my fiancee would not think any other woman was good looking and vice versa. I'm with Logan... it's just a crush. He is just so wonderful, and I'm so happy that Rory and Logan have made it through everything that they've had to overcome. I'm hoping a proposal is somewhere in the distant future for the two of them!!

In short, this was such a great episode... the best by far... and I'm really looking forward to the next one on Tuesday!

Hey by the way, where do you get that "I support Gilmore Girls season 8" thingy? Cuz I want it

You can right click on anyone of the pics that you see and click on properties. Highlight the URL address and copy it. Then go to your forum profile information and put it on your sig. Here is the image code (http://paste URL)  If you have any other questions, just ask!! :)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: urbanmonkey on February 18, 2007, 12:09:12 pm
Ashlee-FAITH stands for:

Forever
And
In
Time
He'll be with her.

It's a Java Junkies thing.  If you want you can put it in your sig.  :D

I've tried to stay out of discussing the episodes as much as possible, but I have read almost all the replies and I have to send 2 shout outs to 2 people whose responses I completely agree with, and are worded exactly how I would say it if I were as effective at getting my points across.  Kudos and *prettysticks* to LovelyLaura and Luke Danes Fan for standing up for the Java Junkies!!

This episode by far was my favorite this season.  They get better and better as the eoisodes progress, and I was glad they had Chris bow out with a little bit of dignity intact.  I'm not a Chris fan at all, in fact, I rather loathe the man, but I loved how fault was admitted by him, and by Lorelai as well with the demise of their relationship. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 18, 2007, 01:09:47 pm
Okay, I am not sure if I have my dates in order, so if this didn't happen, firstly, I apologize.

Didn't Rory kiss Jess when she was with Logan? Why the need to tell about the fliriting when she never said "Logan, I kissed my ex-boyfriend". (Or did she tell him?) Anyway, I know that Logan would be mad about her kissing Jess, maybe, because Jess might pose as a threat. I just don't like how shes all "Oh my! I looked at someone else" flakey-ish kind of to me.

Eh. I adore Logan though.
And great episode.
Heh.

Rory and Logan were technically together.  Two people occupying the same cage, but engaged in a cold war at the time.  Now, it's possible that it was just meant to be understood that she told him, but it was never on screen.  Although, I think the difference between Jess and the TA wasn't Rory so much as the story that the writers wanted to tell in each case.  We didn't see Rory tell Logan about Jess, because the main point of that story wasn't being honest with your boyfriend or that the two of them felt secure about each other and their relationship.  The story in that case was Rory trying to get back at Logan, trying to feel that she washed her hands of him, and finding out that it wasn't the case.  That she still loved him.  Jess was an unfortunate pawn in her revelation, but it was all about what Rory came to realize.  Logan finding out (or, more importantly, the audience knowing whether or not he found out) was unnecessary for that particular spin on the tale.

As for a proposal, I still don't want one.  I don't think Rory is the type to get married young.  And, 22 or 23 is young in my opinion.  However, I don't see why she can't be independant and take on the world and all that while being in a relationship.  And as of now, there's no logical or believable reason why that relationship wouldn't be with Logan.  Of course, we know this show doesn't mind taking characters down illogical roads.  That's not to say far off in the future (when it doesn't have to play on my tv screen) that the relationship might end or might move on to marriage, but for the run of the show, I think the relationship staying where it is just makes sense.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: GilmOre_fan4life on February 18, 2007, 01:22:32 pm
This was a good episode. The funeral was sad. Rory's new professor is quite good looking. I would of loved to see Paris doing a belly dancing class  ;D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 18, 2007, 01:31:35 pm
Actually, the idea of the Jess-lie causing trouble was aired once before. It doesn't seem to be a threat, but as far as anyone knows, she hasn't come clean about it yet. The timing hasn't really been right, but at this stage it doesn't look like it would do much damage, anyway. Maybe the TA crush was a substitute (get it?) for "Jess returns: part III" when Milo V said he wouldn't touch it with a twenty foot stick (who does he think he is, Chris Eccleston?)

Jess made a great foil for Logan by virtue of his contrast coupled with the like attitude. Without him, there's just no substance to a story driven by Logan's jealousy. It suits me fine, but I wish they'd stop teasing us with it.

As for Paris belly-dancing, I am satisfied to leave it to the imagination, since she's already danced for our amusement once this season. What, is she Kirk now?
But if Emily has videos of Lorelai's first Cotillion, I'd suspend my disbelief for a chance to see cotillion-style hip-hop.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 18, 2007, 01:51:59 pm

They shouldn't fake a marriage.  I understand what you are saying and maybe I should have worded it better in a previous post.  Lorelai did try and I giver her so much credit.  She wanted it to work desperately.  Even at the end of last week Lorelai said she was willing to try even though there was feelings for Luke.  I do not think Chris just gave up ( ya he acted like a real jerk) but he knew he would never be a number one, he couldn't live with that as much as he loves Lor.  I guess maybe what i am trying to argue is the writing.  I felt like they rushed them into getting married and after a little bit of drama they call it quits.

Yeah I thought you meant that she didn't try to make it work, and that she gave up too easy.

As far as the direction of the story, I'm torn. The writers could have had Lorelai regret what she did, and have her tell Luke that she slept with Christopher. Then the season would have been them trying to deal with what she did, and then getting back together. Or they could have her and Christopher date and break up when he realizes she is still in love with Luke.

Now on the other hand I can see why they had them get married, and have the marriage fail. Lorelai's big problem has always been that she sabatoges her relationships, and she said she does it because of that old fantasy of her an Christopher being married and being a family with Rory. As long as that card was viable there would have always been the chance that Lorelai and Luke would break up because of it. By them getting married and Lorelai realizing it isn't what she wants, there is nothing threatening her relationship with Christopher.

Yay! Lorelai and Chris might break up! I hope she gets back together with Luke! I kind of thought that this season was a little different than all the others and not really as good, but hopefully it will get better. But like when Lorelai was mad because Luke didn't want to marry her right away, she gave him an ultimatum and didn't let him think about things but he just found out that he had a daughter that he never knew about so she should have gave him a little more time. And he probably didn't tell her about April because maybe he thought it would mess up the relationship which was wrong and it did mess it up, but still. And she rushed into marrying Chris too fast probably because she thought it was really over for her and Luke. But it's not! Yay!!
 :drink: :celebrate: :dance: :hearts: :pizza: :coffee:

Lorelai and Chris are through, no maybes about it!

Luke didn't tell Lorelai about him being a father had nothing to do with him thinking it would mess up their relationship. He just wasn't sure whathe wanted to do. He was still trying to wrap his head around it.

As for the L-L-C love triangle, I have a few comments. I really hope that Lorelai doesn't go back to Luke right away. (Come on, we all know that LUke is the one that she'll be with - Thank God!) I think that it'll be to casual and "soap-opera-like" if she does that. I hope that it will be very gradual... we can start by Lorelai ACTUALLY GOING INTO LUKE'S DINER!!!! (That made me so mad when she didn't go in with Michel!) I think that she and LUke will need to have a discussion saying that they still love each other. I'm sure that Lorelai thinks that Luke could never love her again after what she did, and vice versa. I also actually think that Christopher will bow out gracefully. He hasn't been a total jerk this episode. I really hope that he's adult about it!

Well Christopher is out of the picture, and I don't think he'll go after Lorelai again, but I also don't think he'll be happy about Luke at all, esspecially when they get back together. It'll be a sore spot.

I think the reunion will take a while this time. Last time, Luke knew Lorelai still wanted him and all he had to do was go to her, and that's what happened. This time, both Lorelai and Luke think it's over for good, and all that they can be is friends.

I think Luke will over hear the goosip, or someone will tell him about Lorelai and Christopher breaking up. I also think they'll need to have a good talk before anything happens romantically. It would be nice if April and/or Rory are a part of their reconcilliation, like have them work together to bring them back together, or have April, or Rory tell Luke that Lorelai's marriage broke up because of the letter, or Rory find out that Luke is still in love with Lorelai.

No matter what we need a Season 8 at least to fully resolve the storyline.

Ashlee-FAITH stands for:

Forever
And
In
Time
He'll be with her.

It's a Java Junkies thing. If you want you can put it in your sig. :D

I've tried to stay out of discussing the episodes as much as possible, but I have read almost all the replies and I have to send 2 shout outs to 2 people whose responses I completely agree with, and are worded exactly how I would say it if I were as effective at getting my points across. Kudos and *prettysticks* to LovelyLaura and Luke Danes Fan for standing up for the Java Junkies!!
[/quoe]

Thank you!

I'm just posting what I think and feel. So many of the posts are slanted towards Lorelai, so as a male fan, and Java Junkie I just thought someone ad to offer up Luke's perspective.

This episode by far was my favorite this season. They get better and better as the eoisodes progress, and I was glad they had Chris bow out with a little bit of dignity intact. I'm not a Chris fan at all, in fact, I rather loathe the man, but I loved how fault was admitted by him, and by Lorelai as well with the demise of their relationship.

This was a great episode, and I agree they do seem to be getting better as the season goes on, I think the writers are finally starting to get into the character's heads better. But this season has been filled with little gem scenes, like when Luke goes to Lorelai with his truck packed, that scene is one of the best from the whole series.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 18, 2007, 01:55:18 pm
cotillion-style hip-hop.

And in the category of words you'd never expect to see paired together....

Now for some reason my mind is filled with an all out Gilmore Girl's musical production number.  Sort of like the musical episode of Scrubs.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 18, 2007, 02:07:52 pm
That would have been interesting, Luke Danes Fan, but Luke clearly couldn't handle what Lorelai had done. Though, I guess in a way, your scenario is exactly what they are doing.
It's kind of a much-anticipated thing between them. The last time they broke up, she watched TV every evening and never got around to putting herself out there again. So eventually he "wrapped his head" and came back to her.
This time she didn't want that to happen, so she slept with Christopher. It may have been rash and very mean to Christopher, but she didn't want to be with Luke anymore for reasons I found very compelling.

The choice of smashing Luke's heart with Christopher, I thought, was a metaphorical one because Luke's jealousy of Christopher was one of the little hoops she'd had to jump through to keep peace with him.

The ultimatum was nothing compared to the tantrums and darkness she's waded through with him. If she didn't cut ties when she discovered him in the street screaming at a little old lady, why would he get so angry about a paroxysm of crying and shouting from her now?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 18, 2007, 02:34:57 pm
I don't mean to say that Rory can't be in a relationship and be super-journalist-woman as well.  I just meant she shouldn't get married -- no matter how "well" things are going with Logan now. 

But I did say single because I do think she should leave the show single.  I see Rory's arc as one of a teenager growing up into a young woman.  That involves dating multiple times, being jaded in love, and ultimately finding her own individuality and inner strength.  That, I believe, is the greatest legacy Lorelei instilled in her daughter...being a woman who literally became independent at 16.  Rory and Logan have a good relationship, but I hate to see her leave the show with ANYONE because that would infer that Rory's character is to be finalized in our minds as forever linked with someone else.  Do you see what I'm saying?  Lorelei's storyline has been "finding true love" -- settling down.  She needs to be with someone at the very end (in my opinion, that should be Luke).  But that's not Rory's story. 

Hmm, my opinion is difficult to convey.  Sorry.  The gist is, I'm not saying that you have to be single to be a career woman.  You don't.  But the end of a series gives very distinct outlines as to what will happen to these characters in the "future" (a fictional future that can only occur in our imaginations).  Maybe it's on a symbolic level that Rory should be single.  Not attached to any man, she is readily capable of taking care of herself as she tackles the world.

On a side note, however, I don't see Logan and Rory being "together forever" anyway.  Logan has certainly rebelled against his family and their expectations, but has he done anything substantial to forge his own path?  No.  He fought his father, but where is he now?  Right where daddy wants him to be.  Logan is perfectly aware of his family's expectations, and despite all his high-minded speeches of rebellion, he doesn't seem to have the drive or motivation to completely cut himself off.  Logan is one pampered 20-something.  I can not concieve of Logan turning his back on the Huntzberger name, spitting on that 3 million dollar trust fund and becoming "his own man."  So despite this rebellious relationship with Rory, it's clear where Logan is going in life.  He's going to become a Huntzberger.  A nice Huntzberger.  Maybe not as brainwashed like his mother, or a jerk like his dad.  But a Huntzberger none the less.  I don't know if Rory's pesonal ambitions ultimately fit within his blue-blooded life.  I know this issue has been raised before, and Logan constantly reassures Rory that "It doesn't matter...all we need is love."  But realistically, could it happen?  Staying with Logan infers some type of settling.  If Rory wants to be Mrs. Logan Huntzberger someday, she has to accept this.  But I don't think Rory deserves to settle.  She seems to deserve so much more.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kamakazedeer on February 18, 2007, 02:53:55 pm
Hmm, my opinion is difficult to convey. Sorry. The gist is, I'm not saying that you have to be single to be a career woman. You don't. But the end of a series gives very distinct outlines as to what will happen to these characters in the "future" (a fictional future that can only occur in our imaginations). Maybe it's on a symbolic level that Rory should be single. Not attached to any man, she is readily capable of taking care of herself as she tackles the world.

The show doesn't necessarily have to end with the viewer having a distinct outline of the characters in the future. It is possible to end a series with questions still unresolved (That 70s show). In my opinion all we really need to see is that Rory is out of college and is going in some direction with her career. Her story arc is not defined by her relationships and I don't think it will really effect her character if she winds up with Logan at the series end or not. It would leave the viewers to interpret what happened in that relationship on their own. Logan is just a nice side story for Rory who somewhat influenced her decisions, but Rory is a strong person and I don't think she would make major decisions around Logan (regardless of past events).

 As for Logan and Rory beinig meant for each other, that is yet to be determined, and depends mostly on Logan. If he continues down a Huntzberger approved path he will become his father wether he wants to or not and that's not for Rory. Bottomline: they both still have a lot of growing up to do, they're both young, and I don't think that whole storyline will be wrapped up neatly for a series finale.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 18, 2007, 03:41:02 pm
On a side note, however, I don't see Logan and Rory being "together forever" anyway.  Logan has certainly rebelled against his family and their expectations, but has he done anything substantial to forge his own path?  No.  He fought his father, but where is he now?  Right where daddy wants him to be.  Logan is perfectly aware of his family's expectations, and despite all his high-minded speeches of rebellion, he doesn't seem to have the drive or motivation to completely cut himself off.  Logan is one pampered 20-something.  I can not concieve of Logan turning his back on the Huntzberger name, spitting on that 3 million dollar trust fund and becoming "his own man."  So despite this rebellious relationship with Rory, it's clear where Logan is going in life.  He's going to become a Huntzberger.  A nice Huntzberger.  Maybe not as brainwashed like his mother, or a jerk like his dad.  But a Huntzberger none the less.  I don't know if Rory's pesonal ambitions ultimately fit within his blue-blooded life.  I know this issue has been raised before, and Logan constantly reassures Rory that "It doesn't matter...all we need is love."  But realistically, could it happen?  Staying with Logan infers some type of settling.  If Rory wants to be Mrs. Logan Huntzberger someday, she has to accept this.  But I don't think Rory deserves to settle.  She seems to deserve so much more.

I don't see why Logan has to flip off his family to be a suitable person for Rory.  There's nothing inherently wrong with being a Huntzberger, depending on which Huntzberger you are.  There's also nothing wrong with working for the family business.  And, since Logan is actually working, I hardly see that he's pampered.  No, he's not working on the coal mine, but no one on the show is.  And, he's not doing it just because daddy wants him too.  I think they made it very clear that Logan wants to do this job.  Now, if Logan hadn't gone to work anywhere and did nothing but party and spend his money, then I would say he was pampered.  Now?  I'd find it stupid in the extreme for Logan to hand over his three million on principle and try for some other job when he's already found some manner of fulfillment in the job he has. "Oh, I like the job, I'm good at the job, I've found my niche.  But, because this happens to be what my dad wanted, I have to chuck aside all those excellent reasons for staying and working the job because I don't want to give daddy the satisfaction."  To me, that would be like a toddler having an irrational temper tantrum.  And, Logan has the drive to be responsible.  Sometimes not rebelling is the right thing to do.  To me, this show doesn't only give one message.  Lorelai didn't succeed simply because she rebelled.  It's because she found her niche and made a life for herself outside her family's expectations.  That was right for her.  Logan happened to do it within the family. 

And, I don't see why Rory would have to settle.  Why wouldn't the whole world still be open to her?  Obviously not the romantic world, but I never assumed that Rory would never ever have a permanent relationship at some point.  But, why wouldn't the professional/social world be open to her?  Again, just because Logan is working for the family business (because he wants to, not because he's scared of daddy) doesn't mean that every aspect of his life is going to conform to the family.  Logan isn't going to ask Rory to give up her ambitions.  If family pressure was going to be a factor, he wouldn't still be with her, so no matter what Shira or Grandpa Huntzberger (I don't think Mitchum wants Rory to give up her goals) want, he's not going to force her or even request it of her.  Rory's not going to give up her dreams just to make Logan's family happy.  Short of the family Huntzberger (minus Logan and Mitchum) tying Rory down, beating her with rubber hoses and telling her "You will give up this Christiane Amanpour foolishness and be a society wife and that's it" until she relents, I don't see how this is inevitable.  Unless you mean Rory being with anyone other than a fellow journalist who would join her on her trips when she's chasing down a story would make her settle.  Because getting married (again, I don't expect or desire a marriage on the show) to anybody means some sort of compromise and adjustment, because you're blending lives. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 18, 2007, 03:48:54 pm
i believe that she would also be settling because of the way he treats her. look how shes changed when shes with him. look how he has treated her on several occasions. and above all-- hes cheated on her. when she dropped out of yale, did he try to get her to go back? no. he didnt seem to mind atal. i think that Rory could do much better than Logan, personally. All you people focus on is his wealth, and "adorable" smile. look at the true logan. all hes done to her.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovesToRead on February 18, 2007, 03:58:30 pm
i believe that she would also be settling because of the way he treats her. look how shes changed when shes with him. look how he has treated her on several occasions. and above all-- hes cheated on her. when she dropped out of yale, did he try to get her to go back? no. he didnt seem to mind atal. i think that Rory could do much better than Logan, personally. All you people focus on is his wealth, and "adorable" smile. look at the true logan. all hes done to her.

I absolutely disagree.  The reason I like Logan has nothing to do with his wealth or his smile (nice as it may be).  I think he's treated Rory extremely well on the whole (better than another boyfriend).  And whether he cheated on her is a matter of opinion which has been debated endlessly but since you bring it up...I don't think he cheated on her.  They hadn't spoken in weeks and he assumed that meant they had broken up.  If I were in his position, I would have thought the same thing.  And when she dropped out of Yale, he did try to convince her to go back but he also recognized that it was something that she was going to have to get to on her own (I mean, look at Lorelai, she didn't try to convince Rory to go back after their initial fight, does that mean that she doesn't love her daughter?)  And when he came back from Europe and they were having their conversation about Colin and his milkmaid in "bed" it seemed to be very much on his mind.  I'm not saying that that he didn't make any mistakes.  But they were both in a downward spiral during the first part of the sixth season but they've been doing extremely well IMO since the accident.  I think Logan being rich has actually worked against him more than anything (at least in the eyes of some fans).  And Rory has made some doosy mistakes herself (sleeping with her married ex-boyfriend and may I remind everyone that it was her decision to drop out of Yale just because she got a bad performance review).  I would argue that Logan has been there for her unconditionally when she's gone through the rough times in her life.  That's a pretty admirable quality IMO and something that she hasn't been able to find in many other instances.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 18, 2007, 04:10:11 pm
Did they not talk for Weeks? becuase i could have sworn it was only one. and if you were truly in love, would you sleep with someone else after only not talk to the person you "love" for weeks?

he has been better this season, who knows? maybe the new writer likes his character and is trying to clean him up.

can you guyss not see how hes changed rory?

im not feeling very wordy at the moment. maybe i will later.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 18, 2007, 04:19:08 pm
i believe that she would also be settling because of the way he treats her. look how shes changed when shes with him. look how he has treated her on several occasions. and above all-- hes cheated on her. when she dropped out of yale, did he try to get her to go back? no. he didnt seem to mind atal. i think that Rory could do much better than Logan, personally. All you people focus on is his wealth, and "adorable" smile. look at the true logan. all hes done to her.
Um, seriously.  When have you ever heard me go on about his "adorable" smile?  To be honest, I think his eyes squinch up when he smiles.  Yes, it is possible to like a character for more things than his looks or even to like a character and not find him particularly physically attractive.  I'm not really much for blonds.  And, yes, I talk about his money, but not in an "ooh, it's so great he has money" but more in a "having money isn't a character flaw."  Frankly, I've seen more people who don't like Logan bringing up his smile or his looks in some attempt to demean anyone who likes him.  "Oh, you only like Logan because he's good looking."  

And, I judge Logan not just on the past but on the present.  Yes, it's valid to discuss past mistakes, since there are still threads for old episodes.  But, to say that the past is all that's important to the character of Logan is just not right.  If we're going to bring up that he didn't try to get her to go back to school (neither did her grandparents) then mention should also be made that when her grandfather had a heart attack, he came and supported her at the hospital.  Or does that not count, because it was good behavior?  Do we forget that Logan was ready to go defend Rory to Mitchum after hearing what Mitchum said to her?  And, only stopped at Rory's request?  Should we forget that Logan admitted to overreacting about Marty?  And, not only was he fine with Rory's crush, but put most of the blame on himself that Rory felt uneasy about it.  Should we ignore that from the last half of season 6 to now, Logan has been completely devoted, encouraging, supportive, and when he has the unmitigated gall to do something wrong (how dare he?) he's man enough to admit it, apologize and apparently learn from his mistakes?  He "did all those things to Rory" but they don't count because of his past transgressions.  

But, apparently those above paragraphs translate into "I like Logan, because he's so dreamy and he has so much money!  Giggle, giggle, kissy kissy!" XXOO.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 18, 2007, 04:24:03 pm
i never said it was YOU who just admired him for his smile or riches, ive been on his appreciation thread and thats what ive seen. and i never said that he hasnt done good things for rory. i just believe that rory could maybe get someone who... was more suitable than logan.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovesToRead on February 18, 2007, 04:27:07 pm
Okay, I'd like to comment on the whole issue of Logan's money.  I think it would be incredibly snobby of Rory to not date Logan just because he has money and works for his father, and Rory's not a snob.  And just because Lorelai struck out on her own and broke away from her parents doesn't mean that it will work for everyone.  And I think that Lorelai has acknowledged that on more than one occasion.  Just because it worked out for her, doesn't mean it will for the next person. 

And yes, they had the fight in October and Rory spoke with Honor at Thanksgiving.  That's a pretty big gap (3 weeks or so).  And I thought it was pretty clear that Logan didn't realize that he was in love with Rory until after they broke up.  That's part of what him sleeping with those girls was, discovering that he didn't want to lead the kind of life anymore and eventually did everything in his power to get her back.  I mean, it's like the whole debate with Lorelai and Luke.  Lorelai went and slept with Christopher around an hour after they fought.  Does that mean that she didn't love Luke anymore?  I thought it was pretty clear that she did just as I think that trying to go back to his old lifestyle is what made Logan realize that he loved Rory (he didn't tell her he loved her until he was trying to get her back).

I don't really see where he's made any permanent bad changes in Rory but I can take inventory.  She still cares about her family and friends.  She's still best friends with her mother (and their falling out was not Logan's fault).  She's still studious, she's still interested in journalism (in fact, she made a connection at Logan's party even if the article she ended up writing was mean).  Yes, she went through a pretty rough time in her life while she was with him and I'll admit that he wasn't always the best influence but I don't think there has been any drastic personality transplant with her character.  She's more outgoing (which I like) and she's been shown to be more flawed (which I also like but that happened pre-Logan).  So yes, she has changed some but I don't think that any of the more permanent changes have been bad.

So I guess I don't see what's so unsuitable about him.  He likes his work, he's been a devoted boyfriend.  It's not like he's one of those rich adults who just plays all day and doesn't do any work.  He's become a bit of a "work dork" this season and I fail to see why that makes him so unsuitable.  In fact, the only thing that I can determine is that people think he's unsuitable because he's from a higher social class than Rory which is sad IMO.

And, I judge Logan not just on the past but on the present.  Yes, it's valid to discuss past mistakes, since there are still threads for old episodes.  But, to say that the past is all that's important to the character of Logan is just not right.  If we're going to bring up that he didn't try to get her to go back to school (neither did her grandparents) then mention should also be made that when her grandfather had a heart attack, he came and supported her at the hospital.  Or does that not count, because it was good behavior?  Do we forget that Logan was ready to go defend Rory to Mitchum after hearing what Mitchum said to her?  And, only stopped at Rory's request?  Should we forget that Logan admitted to overreacting about Marty?  And, not only was he fine with Rory's crush, but put most of the blame on himself that Rory felt uneasy about it.  Should we ignore that from the last half of season 6 to now, Logan has been completely devoted, encouraging, supportive, and when he has the unmitigated gall to do something wrong (how dare he?) he's man enough to admit it, apologize and apparently learn from his mistakes?  He "did all those things to Rory" but they don't count because of his past transgressions. 

I agree with this 100% and I also think that if people are determined to focus solely on someone's negative points, that of course they're going to think bad things about that person.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 18, 2007, 04:31:15 pm
i am going to pull out of this discussion becuase i know that neither of us are going to see the others opinions.

its been nice~ ;D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 18, 2007, 07:04:55 pm
you know who else i dont like!! Rorys new friends- olivia and lucy. wheres the interactions with long time friend Lane? Logan talk her out of that too? JUST KIDDING!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 18, 2007, 07:48:01 pm
Let me just say that I hate to be a Logan hater.  And I'm not anti-Logan.  Believe me, he has been a great boyfriend.  I think the whole cheating matter is in the past, and since Rory and Logan are over it, we should be too. 

My history of feelings, however, toward the young Huntzberger has gone through a certain...shall we say...evolution.  I definately did NOT like Logan upon first glance.  I was a Marty lover from the first and frankly, Logan was asshole to Marty.  The first we see of Logan is him leaning almost drunkenly on some girl's shoulder, teasing Marty about working while his dumb friends (let's face it, Colin and Finn are amusing but ultimately idiots) laughed in the background.  Like Rory, I was not impressed.  So I have always been skeptical about Logan.  I was skeptical about Jess because he wasn't very nice either.  In fact, I think Dean was the only one of Rory's boyfriends that I ever COMPLETELY trusted...(and why not?  He was just SO cute! Haha...can we say major crush on Jared Paladecki in high school?)  Needless to say, it took quite awhile for both Jess and Logan to grow on me.  They did -- and I like them now -- but I'm allowed to be wary.  Both have that unpredictable element.  Both could snap at a moments notice and fall back in old patterns.  If the shit hits the fan, I can TOTALLY see Logan jumping some yacht, breaking his neck doing something stupid...whatever.  I think he's matured over the years, but he's still Logan. 

But my point still remains.  Maybe it doesn't matter whether Rory and Logan could ever be in a real, "adult" relationship.  But someone tell me...what makes Logan Huntzberger special?  What makes him "the one" for Rory?  Who's the say that HE'S the one our young heroine is ultimately fated to be with? 

How is he different from Dean and Jess? 

Watch the old episodes.  Dean and Jess were MAJOR characters in seasons past.  Who's to say that Logan isn't just the "boyfriend of the moment?"  I'm not saying that Rory's flighty....3 serious relationships in 7 years is pretty conservative.  But I just don't see what makes Logan stand out.  Personally, I think Jess is the deepest, most dynamic of Rory's boyfriends.  And this just goes to show how much my judgement is worth...I HATED Jess at first.  I mean, the very first episode I ever watched was the dance-a-thon in season 3 where Dean breaks up with Rory because of Jess....lol, heartbreaking episode to start with I know.  But when he came back last season, I thought that ASP was planning a come-back.  And back then, I would have welcomed Jess with open arms.  At the time, it could have worked.  Of course, not now.  But if Jess can come back for a few episodes -- and totally steal Logan's thunder....I don't know.  I like Logan.  I do!  But I'm not convinced he's special. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 18, 2007, 07:55:18 pm
Oh, and I just want to say that I LOVE-LOVE your sig whiffenpoof!  It totally makes me smile....reliving those happy moments.   :)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: echoia on February 18, 2007, 07:59:51 pm
i believe that she would also be settling because of the way he treats her. look how shes changed when shes with him. look how he has treated her on several occasions. and above all-- hes cheated on her. when she dropped out of yale, did he try to get her to go back? no. he didnt seem to mind atal. i think that Rory could do much better than Logan, personally. All you people focus on is his wealth, and "adorable" smile. look at the true logan. all hes done to her.


I totally agree with you. I really stopped liking them when Logan decided he could settle down and be a boyfriend because it was for Rory. That was sooooo lame it made me sick. He didn't want to on his own, he felt like he had to do what she wanted or she wouldn't date him anymore (which was true)... he didn't fall for her and not want to be with other women. She should've said NO.

I like being single, I like dating and being free to date and not having to really consider other peoples feelings, but when my current boyfriend came into my life I WANTED to not date anyone else. I wanted us to be together, I haven't wanted anyone else since or regretted it. He didn't have to try to win me, I fell for him.

I didn' try to win him, either. I told him he was free to date other people as long as he didn't lie to me and tell me it was just us. He chose exclusivity on his own.


And as for whether or not he cheated on her... Uhhhhg, didn't 'Friends' run that topic into the ground? ~head, desk!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 18, 2007, 08:09:50 pm
Ok, can I just freely admit that after writing on this board twice today...it is now 11 PM on a Sunday night, I don't have class tomorrow because of Presidents Day...so I have popped in my GG dvds for a late night of heaven.  lol.  I feel like being happy tonight, so we're starting with season 4 "Luke Can See Her Face"...I have to see that first kiss.  AH!   ;D

I am such a dork.  And I love Gilmore Girls!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovesToRead on February 18, 2007, 08:37:46 pm
But my point still remains.  Maybe it doesn't matter whether Rory and Logan could ever be in a real, "adult" relationship.  But someone tell me...what makes Logan Huntzberger special?  What makes him "the one" for Rory?  Who's the say that HE'S the one our young heroine is ultimately fated to be with? 

How is he different from Dean and Jess? 

That is an excellent question and I will attempt to convey my answer to you.  There are a few reasons that I find Logan to be "the one" for Rory (in no particular order). 

One thing that makes him stand out from Dean and Jess is that he knows how to exist in at least 2 of her 3 worlds.  The first is the world of her grandparents.  He grew up in that word so I think it has pretty much gone without saying that he knows how to act in that world.  He understands the good and the bad of that world and is at least able to exist in it with relative ease.  The second is the world of Yale/Journalism.  I put those together because he has graduated so he's really not at Yale anymore and she will eventually graduate and go out into the world of journalism.  But he went to Yale, he was on the Daily New (albeit his participation was lacking but he understood the dynamic of the way things worked there).  He has an understanding of what it's like to go to an Ivy League school and the pressure that is put upon you there and the structure of the classes.  He has an extensive knowledge of the world of journalism and is able to understand that part of her world and the demands that it will put on her should she ultimately become a journalist.  Now, he hasn't been to Stars Hollow with Rory yet (the only time he's been there was when he went to the Dragonfly to seek Lorelai's help) so I'll reserve judgement on the way he sees that world until he's been there.  However, he's never mocked where she's from or belittled her for it so that's a step in the right direction IMO.

Another is that intellectually she and Logan are on the same level ("and he's smart, smarter than me I swear").  Now, that's not all that different from Jess (who I think pretty much was too) but while Dean wasn't stupid, he definitely wasn't as smart as Rory and they couldn't really have deep conversations about literature and world events the same way that she can with Logan (or could with Jess).  I think they made a point of showing this during "The Party's Over" when she asks Dean about the article she wrote about the Life and Death Brigade and he doesn't really comment except to say that he liked it and was interested.  Logan on the other hand told her why he liked it (caught the spirit of the thing, good style) and points out that he thinks she used a few too many similes but that it had a "Joseph Mitchell thing going on there".  I'm sure that Jess could have critiqued the article as well but I'm not sure that he could have done it without being condescending about the LDB.

Something that distinguishes him from Jess is his free spirit attitude as well.  It reminds me a lot of Lorelai and is very complimentary to Rory's more reserved personality.  He is an extrovert and has gone out of his way to help bring Rory out of her shell which I don't really think Jess ever did and while he has mellowed out quite a bit this season, he still has that spontaneous/social side that has helped Rory get out into the world and experience life rather than just read about it.  I think that's the fundamental difference between him and Jess (who I see to be very similar characters) is that he has more of an outgoing personality and that has been one of the positive things that has rubbed off on Rory.

And I see his family situation as incredibly deep and another thing that makes him similar to Lorelai ("No one understands disappointing family better than I do").  He puts up this cocky front but it's been shown on several occasions that he has a lot of deeper issues about love and commitment (and who could blame him, just look at his parents).  And that's another thing, I think Rory has been able to help him just as much as he's helped her.  She's shown him that being in a commited relationship is something that he actually likes and she's helped him to "settle down" for lack of a better phrasing and become more serious about life and his work.

Added to that, he's been extremely supportive as of late and I think that he's shown incredible growth since his character was introduced (Jess has shown growth too but it looked to me like they had grown apart and I didn't see any character growth in Dean which is part of the reason that I was never a huge fan of his character). 

I totally agree with you. I really stopped liking them when Logan decided he could settle down and be a boyfriend because it was for Rory. That was sooooo lame it made me sick. He didn't want to on his own, he felt like he had to do what she wanted or she wouldn't date him anymore (which was true)... he didn't fall for her and not want to be with other women. She should've said NO.

I disagree completely.  Logan had never been in a committed relationship before and his example hasn't exactly been the best (just look at his parents, what a mess).  I think the fact that he was willing to give up his lifestyle completely for her was his first step in personal growth.  He knew he didn't want to lose her and he did whatever it took to keep her.  And he did eventually fall for her.  I don't think you have to be in love with someone to start a committed relationship with them.  The commmitment is a step in the process of falling in love (if that's what ultimately happens).

Ok, can I just freely admit that after writing on this board twice today...it is now 11 PM on a Sunday night, I don't have class tomorrow because of Presidents Day...so I have popped in my GG dvds for a late night of heaven.  lol.  I feel like being happy tonight, so we're starting with season 4 "Luke Can See Her Face"...I have to see that first kiss.  AH!   ;D

I am such a dork.  And I love Gilmore Girls!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that (or at least I hope there isn't because I do it too :) )


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 18, 2007, 08:45:51 pm


I totally agree with you. I really stopped liking them when Logan decided he could settle down and be a boyfriend because it was for Rory. That was sooooo lame it made me sick. He didn't want to on his own, he felt like he had to do what she wanted or she wouldn't date him anymore (which was true)... he didn't fall for her and not want to be with other women. She should've said NO.


Well, that falls under the "Rory Ain't All That -No, Honestly, She Isn't" category.  The only reason he would agree to date just her is if he did fall for her.  Otherwise, I think he could easily have said no, and he would have lived through the pain of not being able to date Rory Gilmore: Love Goddess Extraordinaire.

Quote
I like being single, I like dating and being free to date and not having to really consider other peoples feelings, but when my current boyfriend came into my life I WANTED to not date anyone else. I wanted us to be together, I haven't wanted anyone else since or regretted it. He didn't have to try to win me, I fell for him.
I didn' try to win him, either. I told him he was free to date other people as long as he didn't lie to me and tell me it was just us. He chose exclusivity on his own.


*scratches head.  I still don't see why you believe Logan didn't want to.  You said if he said no, Rory wouldn't date him anymore.  Yes?  And?  It's not like saying no to Rory would make him a miseralbe wallflower.  He would still have other girls to date.  Multiple girls who wouldn't be hung up on being the only person he dated.  Not dating Rory wouldn't have done a thing to him -unless he really wanted to be with Rory above all other girls.    And, to me, it makes sense that he would decide he wanted to be exclusive to one girl after he found that girl.  Besides, seeing as Logan at that time wasn't even a full cast member, it wasn't like we were going to see him having a heart to heart with Colin and Finn, telling them "You know, I'm ready to settle down, I want to be a one woman man.  Now I just need to wait until I find that woman."  *Dani considers somewhat vulgar joke, but decides against it*  No, the only way the audience to know Logan was ready to settle down was through him deciding to with Rory.  She said she couldn't do casual, he offered to be exclusive.  Ergo, he wanted to.

Quote
But my point still remains.  Maybe it doesn't matter whether Rory and Logan could ever be in a real, "adult" relationship.  But someone tell me...what makes Logan Huntzberger special?  What makes him "the one" for Rory?  Who's the say that HE'S the one our young heroine is ultimately fated to be with? 

How is he different from Dean and Jess? 


I'm also going to take a whack at this, although it will seem like I'm not.  Because it's not about Logan being different from Dean or Jess.  I don't hold with one guy is better than the other, and Rory should be trading up each time she's in a relationship, until she finds the perfect guy.  I'm not saying you're necessarily saying this, but that's what I feel is implied in the question "Which guy is right for Rory" that comes up.  It's not that his differences make him a better boyfriend than Dean or Jess (although I do think Jess was wrong for Rory -no, they were mutually wrong for each other- and no matter what growth he's had-a lot- their time has come and gone.  Over.  Finished.  The fat lady sang and lost her breath from holding that high note) just that it's his time.  I like the relationship not because Logan is so much more special on his own.  Although, I do think he has many fine qualities that make him a good boyfriend.  I like the relationship for the relationship's sake.  Dean was good, in his time.  I suppose, even as much as I hate the romantic relationship between Jess and Rory, it had some value and some growth during its time.  Now, it's the time for her relationship with Logan.  I know a lot of people find these stories boring, but I like that Rory and Logan work out their problems.  And, not after a long time.  Any one of their episodes this season could have blown up into huge problems could have blown up to something bigger if they had acted stupid.  Take the article.  Rory could have taken the Tweedles on their offer to stay with them, and spent weeks "not talking" to Logan.  Logan could have sulked or when Rory came back, he could have said something nasty and just futher pushed the fight.  Or after the Marty debacle, Logan could have told Rory not to come to London, or just keep giving her digs the whole vacation (which we have to assume did not happen) or Rory could have declined to go.  And, it's not that they just magically do this.  They've struggled to get to this point where they value honesty, where they apologize where they don't make problems worse.  And, the thing is, I could easily see some hack writing these very episodes and turning each problem to a big disaster, purely by making both of them stubborn idiots.  The fact that they don't says this relationship is something of value right now. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kamakazedeer on February 18, 2007, 08:52:48 pm
First off, I am a Logan fan. However, I think the it's the way he decided to be exclusive with Rory that was a little fishy. He viewed her decision to stop casually dating him as an ultimatem (which it wasn't) and decided based on that. He actually seemd slightly annoyed with her during that scene and accuses her of trapping him into being her boyfriend (at least that's how I interpreted) he then says "ok I'll do it" and says he views it as a challenge. That's a little bizarre and uncomforting to me. Also, it makes me wonder if Rory hadn't given him the "ultimatem" would he ever have gone to Rory and declared that he wanted her and only her. There is no doubt in my mind that he now loves Rory, however if we're specifically talking about the way they started dating it wasn't exactly ideal.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 18, 2007, 09:01:54 pm
Hmm, I don't know.  I found Logan's reaction more endearing.  Sort of..."Ok, so I'm not used to this -- so I'm going to pretend to be a defensive tough guy to hide the fact that I really like you."  He could have been teased by Colin or Finn for admitting these things, so he hid it by acting all defensive.  Anyway, that was my interpretation.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kamakazedeer on February 18, 2007, 09:12:40 pm
Well, I'm watching season 5 now and I skipped to this scene to watch it again and I get where you're coming from. I can see how the scene can be cute and I can tell that Logan likes her, he says "do you really want to stop seeing me because I don't want to stop seeing you". So that proves that he does view her above  the other girls he's seeing. I'm just still not convinced he would have made any changes to their situation if Rory hadn't tried to end things.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 18, 2007, 09:13:31 pm
I think he both wanted to be with her and he saw it as something of a challenge.  I don't think the full meaning of being a boyfriend got to him until after they broke up.  But, that was just part of his growth.  (I mean, he understood the whole only seeing her, he just didn't grasp the full potential emotional ramifications).  But, I do think at that point he did want to be with her.

And, as for whether he would have gone to Rory without her saying she couldn't continue?  Well, we don't know.  However, that question can be flipped.  If we weren't privy to Rory's bathroom crying jag, and Logan went to her saying he wanted to be exclusive, we wouldn't know that Rory wouldn't have continued the casual dating unless he came to her first.  Who's to say she still wouldn't have wanted to continue the casual dating experiment?  Or the fact that she had not so long ago broke up with Dean may have made her not ready for a commitment at that time.  Again, we have the advantage of having Rory's point of view, to know she was.  But, without that, the person who didn't make the first move could always have that question mark?  Would they if the other person hadn't said it first?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ChelleBelle on February 18, 2007, 09:17:35 pm
Hey everyone. I am new to the forum and I am excited to be apart of the gilmoregirls.org. I love the Gilmore Girls, its the only show that I watch religously. I am excited to see where this season goes! And I am in total support of season 8.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kamakazedeer on February 18, 2007, 09:26:05 pm
I agree with you on the first point. Logan was almost just playing boyfriend w/ Rory. He went through the motions and did boyfriend like things for the first part of their relationship but wasn't in it emotionally until he realized what he had lost. Not to say that he didn't having feelings for her before but I think that hiatus they had made him reevaluate the meaning of their relationship and opened his eyes to how much he really cared about Rory.

As far as not seeing Logan's perspective, I don't think knowing Rory's point of view mattered too much anyway. It was just a confirmation of what we already thought, that she wasn't up for the whole casual dating thing. I'm basing this off of their history. If we look at Logan he is a serial bachelor/playboy type and Rory is a long term relationship girl. I think the only reason she agreed to casually date Logan was because she had a crush on him and maybe hoped that it would develop into something more. The only person Rory went out with other than Logan during the time they were casually dating was Robert and that was just to make Logan jealous. He could have started something with her at the beginning of this and Rory wouldn't have objected (in my opinion). I'm also going off of personal experience, as I have been in Rory's situation too.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: echoia on February 18, 2007, 09:55:38 pm

Quote
I like being single, I like dating and being free to date and not having to really consider other peoples feelings, but when my current boyfriend came into my life I WANTED to not date anyone else. I wanted us to be together, I haven't wanted anyone else since or regretted it. He didn't have to try to win me, I fell for him.
I didn' try to win him, either. I told him he was free to date other people as long as he didn't lie to me and tell me it was just us. He chose exclusivity on his own.


*scratches head.  I still don't see why you believe Logan didn't want to.

Obviously.


There's a huge difference between not wanting to let go of someone you're dating and like and WANTING to forsake other dating 'opportunities' because you really are focused on someone. He didn't want anyone else to have Rory, that's not the same as not wanting anyone else himself.


Quote
Well, that falls under the "Rory Ain't All That -No, Honestly, She Isn't" category.  The only reason he would agree to date just her is if he did fall for her.  Otherwise, I think he could easily have said no, and he would have lived through the pain of not being able to date Rory Gilmore: Love Goddess Extraordinaire.

Uh, yuh, ok? That was my point. It's lame. She's not all that, he was at Yale. I'm sure there are plenty of size-two geniusy girls at Yale. She wasn't special enough for him to fall for her outright, she had to chase him, she got drunk and fell asleep on the floor of her mom's bathroom -crying-, he got jealous at a party when he saw her with someone else, he was dating other people, he disappeared when she thought he was suddenly supposed to be all over her.

'I've never been a boyfriend, I'm not your boyfriend, you haven' tmade me want to be your boyfriend, I'm not going to be a boyfriend, don't tell me to be your boyfriend, oh, what you're leaving? I'll be your boyfriend!'

Sometimes I hate the writing on this show. I hate when I feel that writers write episode-to-episode rather than laying out a REAL plot.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovesToRead on February 18, 2007, 10:13:30 pm
There's a huge difference between not wanting to let go of someone you're dating and like and WANTING to forsake other dating 'opportunities' because you really are focused on someone. He didn't want anyone else to have Rory, that's not the same as not wanting anyone else himself.

I disagree.  I don't think it was all about him not wanting anyone else to have Rory (though it was probably a part of it) but the fact that he didn't want to let her go.  Like others have said, he had plenty of other girls who were interested him (and I think they drove this point home by having a girl call him and one show up at his door while he was talking to Rory) so if he wasn't truly interested in Rory, he had plenty of backup.  But he was interested in her and I think that he had already acknowledged at that point that she was different from the other girls he dated and he considered it a good different.  He didn't say that he didn't want her to see anyone else in the episode where they got together, he said "I don't want to stop seeing you."  And not everyone goes through the same experiences when dating.  I like that it was a different situation for her.

Uh, yuh, ok? That was my point. It's lame. She's not all that, he was at Yale. I'm sure there are plenty of size-two geniusy girls at Yale. She wasn't special enough for him to fall for her outright, she had to chase him, she got drunk and fell asleep on the floor of her mom's bathroom -crying-, he got jealous at a party when he saw her with someone else, he was dating other people, he disappeared when she thought he was suddenly supposed to be all over her.

'I've never been a boyfriend, I'm not your boyfriend, you haven' tmade me want to be your boyfriend, I'm not going to be a boyfriend, don't tell me to be your boyfriend, oh, what you're leaving? I'll be your boyfriend!'

Again, I disagree.  He admitted in "Wedding Bell Blues" that he was interested in her but he knew she was a commitment girl and he wasn't a commitment kind of guy (at least not yet).  So they dated casually for awhile.  And I don't see what's so wrong about Rory pursuing him.  I actually found it refreshing since up until that point, guys just seemed to fall at Rory's feet.  It was nice that it wasn't so easy for her for one.  As for his little tirade, I didn't see it the same way at all.  I saw it more of him freaking out that he might lose her, weighing his options, and deciding that he was willing to try commitment for her.  Like LovelyLaura, I found it endearing.  The guy had never done commitment before (though I'm sure it wasn't from lack of being propositioned) and he decided to make the change for Rory.  I think that's something to credit him for.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 18, 2007, 11:29:22 pm
Rory chased Logan?  Really?  I missed that.  Rory cried on the bathroom floor but Logan had no knowledge of that, so that didn't influence his position.  Up to that time, Rory didn't make any objections to Logan seeing other girls.  She knew what she was signing up for.  When she saw him with another girl, she might not have liked it, but she didn't react badly to him.  Rory calmly laid out who she was when she went to see Logan.  She told him that the agreement they had no longer worked for her, because that wasn't who she was.  She didn't try to influence his decision at all.  She simply said, "I'm not disparaging you, but this isn't who I am.  It's not your fault, I knew what I was in for, but I know now that I can't be that person."  May all women chase men in this manner if that's what chasing is.  Logan took the initiatve to say that he didn't want to let her go.  I also fail to see how Logan's decision is interpreted as he just didn't want anyone else to have her.  When has Logan been shown to only want something or someone to prevent someone else from having it?  I'm assuming that him being jealous of Robert might be brought up as one of those times, but couldn't that easily be interpreted as he was already developing strong feelings for Rory? And not just that he didn't want anyone else to date her? Although I am impressed that you managed to use my words to support your position.  I'm still confused as how you did it.  Rory isn't that special, Logan had his pick of most women on campus, so the fact that he decided to give up his playboy ways and be with only her is proof that he didn't really want to be with her?  It feels like some intricate algebraic equation.  And, I had to take remedial algebra in college. 

Or is it that he didn't immediately fall for Rory that puts the vaiidity of him wanting to be with her in doubt?  I know, I should have quoted the whole post, but I'm lazy.  However, you said,
Quote
She wasn't special enough for him to fall for her outright
so I'm assuming that this is part of your objection.  The thing is, I think it's a myth that people always fall for others outright and if they don't, it's a bad sign for the relationship.  I love the fact that Logan didn't fall for her outright.  I feel that means he actually fell for Rory, because he got to know Rory.  Why should he have fallen for someone he barely knew?  And, before they even started dating, he had already felt she was special.  But, in a realistic manner, he got to know Rory.  Their friendship and their friends with benefits relationship deepened.  Same with Rory.  They had been aquaintances and then struck up a friendship and then casually dated all before Rory was crying.  (Again, the crying happened without Logan being aware, so that can't be used as evidence of why he agreed to be her boyfriend.  And I've addressed the chasing issue)  Sure, many friendships stay just that between two people.  And, those are wonderful and valuable relationships.  But, isn't it a good thing when two people who have a romantic relationship can say they were friends first?  Or, if you disagree that they were friends, isn't it a good thing when two people can say they didn't just jump in to a relationship?

It just seems that because Logan didn't make the first move, he's under suspicion.  Many people don't make life changing decisions without some catalyst.  Even if a playboy does just one day decide to settle down, they can't actually do that until there's someone to settle down with.  And, again, we have no idea that Logan wasn't ready and that Rory didn't come along at an opportune time.  If they ever do a spin off called The Logan Huntzberger Show, where they replay every episode from his point of view, maybe we'll find out.  But, even if he didn't decide until Rory said she couldn't continue seeing him casually, I just can't how it's a bad thing.  The important thing isn't how he decided.  The important thing is that he did


Quote
He didn't say that he didn't want her to see anyone else in the episode where they got together, he said "I don't want to stop seeing you."
 

Very important distinction.  The burden of proof in that scene wasn't on whether Rory was seeing other guys.  In fact, that's what their agreement was up to that point.  She had been seeing other guys.  Logan might have gotten jealous at the Pulp Fiction party, but Rory still left the party with Robert.  The question was, did Logan want to see only Rory?  And, he did.  He didn't ask Rory to give anything up.  Rory already said she didn't want to date a bunch of guys, she wanted to be a girlfriend.  And, she didn't even say she wanted to be his girlfriend.  It was all on him.  Did he want to change?  Did he want to be with her exclusively?  The answer?  Yes.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: xxLL4Everxx on February 19, 2007, 05:50:20 am
I'm not so sure what I think of Logan. He can be a little bit of a jerk sometimes but I can tell that he loves Rory, and that is all that counts. He just...he never really suited Rory. Until well now. I agree with Paris that Rory changed him. He started as this snot and now he is actually nice and sweet so I am cool with him I guess.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 19, 2007, 07:21:17 am
Ask not what Logan can do for Rory, but what Rory can do for Logan, eh?

Rory is all that, honest, she really is. I don't care if she's size-two and geniussy, and I don't care that her face would start a war with the Trojans. She takes her relationships seriously. I don't mean she gets the rules straight or that she never misbehaves, I mean that she never punishes her boyfriend, she never gets angry about something else and takes it out on her boyfriend, and she never does anything to deliberately hurt anyone she loves, even when she's genuinely annoyed with them. What makes her special is the things she has in common with Lorelai, and I appreciate her big feelings far more than her big potential.

(before you call the previous paragraph a departure from pseudoreality consider: She never intended to do those things and stopped once she realized what she was doing instead of sticking to her guns.)

The fact is, Logan couldn't do better. Usually he attracts a completely different sort of commitment, and miss "I don't need you to be my boyfriend" was probably the first girl who didn't run screaming when she found out who he really was. Rory loved Logan before he changed for her, and to me it speaks of a gigantic heart. The kind that can move other hearts.

It puts me in mind of the old Hawaiian love story, in which a man had such a homely daughter, all her friends snickered about how he'd be lucky to get a single cow for a dowry. Then a rich merchant blew into town, chatted up the community, built a house and fell in love with the girl. When the time came, he shelled out eight cows for the privilege of her hand in marriage.

When he related the story to a friend years later, his friend could not believe such a stone fox as his wife could ever have been considered unattractive, and the merchant explained: He had invested eight cows because he had wanted an eight-cow wife.

I feel the same way about Logan, Luke, Jess, and almost all of the Gilmore bf's. Being loved by someone with a giant heart can change you and make you worthy of that love. If you see it for what its worth in time. Logan has changed a lot for Rory, sure, but her love was never contingent on those changes. Not even when she tried to break up with him. That's love, and I honestly don't know a single real woman who could have duplicated the feat. (With or without Logan rising to it.)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 07:32:40 am

There's nothing inherently wrong with being a Huntzberger, depending on which Huntzberger you are.  There's also nothing wrong with working for the family business.  And, since Logan is actually working, I hardly see that he's pampered.  No, he's not working on the coal mine, but no one on the show is.  And, he's not doing it just because daddy wants him too.  I think they made it very clear that Logan wants to do this job.

And, I don't see why Rory would have to settle.  Why wouldn't the whole world still be open to her?  Obviously not the romantic world, but I never assumed that Rory would never ever have a permanent relationship at some point.  But, why wouldn't the professional/social world be open to her?  Again, just because Logan is working for the family business (because he wants to, not because he's scared of daddy) doesn't mean that every aspect of his life is going to conform to the family. 

I'm not saying that there's something wrong with being a Huntzberger.  Really, I'm not anti-Logan.  I'm just saying realistically there are certain expectations, certain responsibilities, and a certain lifestyle in order TO BE a Huntzberger.  They're fictional so it's hard to tell their actual clout in the Northeast, but it's like marrying a Rockefeller.  Pseudo-celebrity status.  If Rory married Logan, she WOULD be a society wife -- whether she liked it or not.  That is how society would percieve her and treat her.  If Rory married Logan, she would have to live her life in the upper echelon of society.  She would be planting herself in Emily's world, and we all know the pressures Emily faces.  Granted Emily loves her position as wife-to-Richard, but is it really for Rory?  Even if she turned out to be super-journalist, she would be percieved as nothing more than wife-to-Logan.  I agree with Richard in season 6 -- Rory deserves more.

Now that's all using marriage as an example, but being in a relationship implies the same things.  

And I do think Logan's pampered...how can he not be??  Logan has never wanted for anything material in his life.  I hate to say that he's a spoiled brat -- because he's not.  He's turned into a very mature young man.  But there will ALWAYS be that selfish streak in him.  You can't get rid of it.  And this ties with Logan's job...Logan's father forced him to go to London at the end of season 5.  Logan didn't want to go, but he got on that elevator anyway.  It then turned out that oh!  He was really good at this stuff.  But his FATHER got him that job.  I can't say that Logan isn't capable of getting a job on his own -- because we'll never know.  But that's what happened...Mitchum wanted him to go to London.  He went.  Period.  He's not dumb.  Logan knows that by "following daddy's advice," he'll be very successful and very rich.  He doesn't even have to work with Mitchum.  Good deal, right?  He's no fool.  But the fact still remains that everything has been laid out for him.  Like he once said to Rory, he sees one door and he's being pushed through it.  Well pushed is one word, but he still has that door open.  And while he's smart, he's not exactly Mr. Hardworker.  Who's to say that Logan deserves that job in London?  He never did anything special...especially at the paper.  Why is Doyle a fact checker at some dinky paper in Connecticut, but Logan is given the world?

These parts of his past, lead me to doubt Logan's personal drive.  He's not stupid, so he's not going to turn his back on a good thing.  But could he?  Does he have the guts to do what Lorelei did?  Does he even know what HE wants?  Could he cut the umbiliical cord to the Huntzberger name and be his own man?  


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 08:04:41 am
Here, I thought of a better way to say this::

I don't think Rory deserves ANYONE on the show.  Neither Dean, Jess NOR Logan is "IT" for her.  All three boyfriends represent three aspects of Rory's personality and three character types she's attracted to. 

--Dean is stable, he's the nice guy, he worshipped her, and he'll always be there. 
--Jess is the bad boy with a loose temper, he's VERY intelligent, he's unpredictable, he's deep, he has a past, he's James Dean.
--Logan is from a different world (the upper society), he's fun, he's spontaneous, he's popular, he's polished, he's charming. 

All of these guys are different.  But I don't think any of them are particularly better than any other.  Jess is not a "step-up" from Dean.  If he was, Rory wouldn't have had her affair with Dean in season 5.  In this way, Logan is not an "improvement" from Rory's past.  He's different than she's ever dated before -- which is why she's attracted to him.  But she was JUST as attracted to Jess and Dean in their day. 

So it's not to say that Logan doesn't deserve Rory...ever.  But again, and I know I'm beating a dead horse, I don't see how he's SPECIAL.  I don't see how he's different.  Yes, he's "different" in terms of personality, etc.  But I don't see how he's "the one." 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Lets Shall on February 19, 2007, 08:20:26 am
I think that Logan is a mix of Dean and Jess.  I agree with you that Dean is stable, nice, worshipped Rory  and that Jess was an intelligent bad boy.  I do, however, think that Logan is special.  He is the perfect blend of Dean and Jess.  He worships Rory without becoming possessive (Like Dean was) and he's a bad boy without being a total jerk (Like Jess was).  Logan is the perfect combination of 2 of Rory's personalities.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LukeLoganLuver*8 on February 19, 2007, 08:31:48 am
Luke and Lorelai belong together. Rory and Logan were made for eachother.
Their love will aways reign!

peace, love rock and roll=]


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: FlyGrl0609 on February 19, 2007, 08:35:13 am
I don't think that Rory would just be a society wife if her and Logan married. She will make of her life whatever she wants to. As was evident by what happened in season 6, anything she does she does well and makes her own, the community service, the DAR. Rory defines what she does, she doesn't let her surroundings define her. She'll be able to do whatever she wants no matter who she ends up with. Sure with Logan she would be able to do it all and go to Paris whenever she wants, but thats just a bonus. I really did like the scene with the two of them where she explained the new TA and how Paris said Rory broke Logan. It showed the growth not only of the charaters but also of the relationship. They have potential. I think the end of this season would be too soon to tie it all up with a pretty little ring, but by the end of season 8 *fingers crossed*, after Rory has had some time out of school to get her feet wet, then maybe we can have a nice little Martha's Vinyard wedding :) ;)

WooHoo!! I have community points! :)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 19, 2007, 08:35:25 am
That would have been interesting, Luke Danes Fan, but Luke clearly couldn't handle what Lorelai had done. Though, I guess in a way, your scenario is exactly what they are doing.

I think they needed to explore that scenerio so it will be done and over with once and for all.

It's kind of a much-anticipated thing between them. The last time they broke up, she watched TV every evening and never got around to putting herself out there again. So eventually he "wrapped his head" and came back to her.

I don't think he "Wrapped his head around it" though, because he already knew they were always going to be there. I think he realised that nothing mattered to him as long as he had Lorelai he could deal with Emily, Richard, Christopher, and anything else thrown at him.

This time she didn't want that to happen, so she slept with Christopher. It may have been rash and very mean to Christopher, but she didn't want to be with Luke anymore for reasons I found very compelling.

I disagree here. I don't think her sleeping with Christopher had anything to do with Luke, but was all about her. Lorelai slept with Christopher, because of herself, she still had that fantasy in the back of her head, and when her fears and insecurities got to her, she ran back to that fantasy, to Christopher. You can tell by her face the morning after how she knew it was a mistake, and felt immediate remorse for doing it. You could also see the pain and regret on her face and hear it in her voice when she tells Luke  that she slept with Christopher.

The choice of smashing Luke's heart with Christopher, I thought, was a metaphorical one because Luke's jealousy of Christopher was one of the little hoops she'd had to jump through to keep peace with him.

I don't really think Luke was all that jealous of Christopher, just annoyed by him. Remember after they got back together Luke didn't care if she spoke or saw him, as long as she didn't hide it from him. That's why he was ok with them meeting to talk when he offered to pay for Yale, and that's why he was ok with her going to Rory's Journalist Panel with Christopher. Christopher would never be ok with any of that, as seen by his mature reaction at the hospital.

The ultimatum was nothing compared to the tantrums and darkness she's waded through with him. If she didn't cut ties when she discovered him in the street screaming at a little old lady, why would he get so angry about a paroxysm of crying and shouting from her now?

Actually she liked his tantrums, which aren't tantrums, but rants. She encourages him to have them, remember the limo ride? The Ultimatum was different, for one she knew Luke didn't like them. Two, she didn't just issue an ultimatum, she was gone for 2 days, which had him worried about her, then she shows up and drops everything she kept inside on him, then gave the ultimatum, them before he could ajust to any of that, she says she met with Anna behind his back, and then just walks away. So it wasn't the ultimatum, but everything combined, and he wasn't angry at her, he was just trying to process everything.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LukeLoganLuver*8 on February 19, 2007, 08:37:53 am
yeah...it would be 2 soon...ur right...but they rele should tie the knot...don't u think?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 19, 2007, 09:25:12 am
Ask not what Logan can do for Rory, but what Rory can do for Logan, eh?

I won't get into the specifics of your post (for now) but I always wonder why no one ever asks this question.  It's always what the guy can do for Rory, as if she doesn't have to contribute anything to a relationship.  In this relationship I think Rory's actions and attitude contribute as much to what makes it work as Logan.  Which is another reason I love it.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 19, 2007, 10:25:44 am
If Rory and April band together to get Lorelai and Luke back together I will need a garbage can handy the entire time.  I agree that we will probably see detailed talks between Lorelai & Rory.  Maybe even Luke & April but Luke seems to try and shield April from his dating life a little more (as in his explanation for not liking her swim teacher) and I don’t see him allowing any talks with her to go beyond a certain point which hinders her ability to see the situation and get together with Rory.  I can see Rory happening into the diner when April’s there though...  Oh please don’t let them go down that road.  It’s too much like children of a divorced family trying to reunite their parents and that’s just sad.  You know how some feel Logan settling down for Rory was lame?  That’s how I would see this times ten. 

Just as someone can see Logan’s good traits and reasons he is good for Rory without being attracted to him you can also see them even though you think he’s attractive.  His being a good looking guy doesn’t blind you to mistakes he does or doesn’t make.  Just as thinking Luke is attractive isn’t necessarily the only reason JJ’s like L/L (some maybe, but I sincerely doubt all, also keep in mind I of course am not speaking from personal opinion or preference because I am not a L/L shipper but my point stands, just because someone’s attractive doesn’t mean you can’t see them objectively).  Okay, I know that was a couple pages back but I’ve got a lot of catching up to do :)

Being weary of a character is one thing.  But just as Logan has every possibility of snapping and resorting to his old ways so does anyone.  Luke, Lorelai, Christopher, Rory.  Hey what if Rory got a string of bad reviews?  She could withdraw from life as she knows it and return to the ‘sloth’ life (isn’t that what Logan called it when she dropped out?).  But because we’ve seen changes in both of their characters it would stand to reason that mistakes will not be repeated verbatim unlike another popular couple we all know.  Logan may have been a playboy type and could very well go back to it for all we know, but now that he’s had a taste of the settled life (and seems to be enjoying it mind you) it’s unlikely he would resort back to it permanently without tossing the rest of his mature ways (along with his job) out the window. 

That is an excellent question and I will attempt to convey my answer to you.  There are a few reasons that I find Logan to be "the one" for Rory (in no particular order). 

One thing that makes him stand out from Dean and Jess is that he knows how to exist in at least 2 of her 3 worlds.  The first is the world of her grandparents.  He grew up in that word so I think it has pretty much gone without saying that he knows how to act in that world.  He understands the good and the bad of that world and is at least able to exist in it with relative ease.  The second is the world of Yale/Journalism.  I put those together because he has graduated so he's really not at Yale anymore and she will eventually graduate and go out into the world of journalism.  But he went to Yale, he was on the Daily New (albeit his participation was lacking but he understood the dynamic of the way things worked there).  He has an understanding of what it's like to go to an Ivy League school and the pressure that is put upon you there and the structure of the classes.  He has an extensive knowledge of the world of journalism and is able to understand that part of her world and the demands that it will put on her should she ultimately become a journalist.  Now, he hasn't been to Stars Hollow with Rory yet (the only time he's been there was when he went to the Dragonfly to seek Lorelai's help) so I'll reserve judgement on the way he sees that world until he's been there.  However, he's never mocked where she's from or belittled her for it so that's a step in the right direction IMO.

Another is that intellectually she and Logan are on the same level ("and he's smart, smarter than me I swear").  Now, that's not all that different from Jess (who I think pretty much was too) but while Dean wasn't stupid, he definitely wasn't as smart as Rory and they couldn't really have deep conversations about literature and world events the same way that she can with Logan (or could with Jess).  I think they made a point of showing this during "The Party's Over" when she asks Dean about the article she wrote about the Life and Death Brigade and he doesn't really comment except to say that he liked it and was interested.  Logan on the other hand told her why he liked it (caught the spirit of the thing, good style) and points out that he thinks she used a few too many similes but that it had a "Joseph Mitchell thing going on there".  I'm sure that Jess could have critiqued the article as well but I'm not sure that he could have done it without being condescending about the LDB.

Something that distinguishes him from Jess is his free spirit attitude as well.  It reminds me a lot of Lorelai and is very complimentary to Rory's more reserved personality.  He is an extrovert and has gone out of his way to help bring Rory out of her shell which I don't really think Jess ever did and while he has mellowed out quite a bit this season, he still has that spontaneous/social side that has helped Rory get out into the world and experience life rather than just read about it.  I think that's the fundamental difference between him and Jess (who I see to be very similar characters) is that he has more of an outgoing personality and that has been one of the positive things that has rubbed off on Rory.

And I see his family situation as incredibly deep and another thing that makes him similar to Lorelai ("No one understands disappointing family better than I do").  He puts up this cocky front but it's been shown on several occasions that he has a lot of deeper issues about love and commitment (and who could blame him, just look at his parents).  And that's another thing, I think Rory has been able to help him just as much as he's helped her.  She's shown him that being in a commited relationship is something that he actually likes and she's helped him to "settle down" for lack of a better phrasing and become more serious about life and his work.

Added to that, he's been extremely supportive as of late and I think that he's shown incredible growth since his character was introduced (Jess has shown growth too but it looked to me like they had grown apart and I didn't see any character growth in Dean which is part of the reason that I was never a huge fan of his character). 

I disagree completely.  Logan had never been in a committed relationship before and his example hasn't exactly been the best (just look at his parents, what a mess).  I think the fact that he was willing to give up his lifestyle completely for her was his first step in personal growth.  He knew he didn't want to lose her and he did whatever it took to keep her.  And he did eventually fall for her.  I don't think you have to be in love with someone to start a committed relationship with them.  The commmitment is a step in the process of falling in love (if that's what ultimately happens).

Excellent post LovesToRead, it is a perfect explanation!  (I apologize for quoting the whole darn thing but I wanted to be clear on which I was referring to.)  I started my post before I got to that page but I’m going to leave it out because this is 100% how I feel about R/L.  I would like to add onto a comment you made but didn’t go into detail.  Logan does stand out in my mind compared to the others because together R/L are able to make mature decisions and resolutions to their problems unlike we’ve seen before.  In a show where a lot of the characters seem to repeat their mistakes without learning life lessons, Rory and Logan have grown beyond that which is illustrated with this crush.  In the past Logan might have flipped out about a crush, overreacting and causing a scene.  In this case he saw that wasn’t the right course and they calmly discussed it, while confirming that it was not a big deal.  We didn’t see that with Dean or Jess while Rory was in a relationship with either of them.  We saw Dean throw hissy fits and Rory cave in to him most of the time (some of the time Dean was right, I’m not meaning to diminish what his issues with that relationship were because most of them were grounded in the truth of how Rory felt for Jess but really it’s the same situation, Jess started out as just a crush).  With Jess - he just up and left, not to mention he was pretty suspicious of Dean just as Dean was of him.  While he came back later to make amends, their relationship (again to me) was just them making out all over the place.  There wasn’t any actual growth for either character until they were apart.  And the point is that Jess wasn’t able to steal Logan’s thunder and that speaks volumes to how Rory felt for Logan.  Especially considering how she transitioned from Dean to Jess in Season 3.  Jess showed up and rocked her world for a moment but this time she could hardly kiss him because of her feelings for Logan.

Ask not what Logan can do for Rory, but what Rory can do for Logan, eh?

Rory is all that, honest, she really is. I don't care if she's size-two and geniussy, and I don't care that her face would start a war with the Trojans. She takes her relationships seriously. I don't mean she gets the rules straight or that she never misbehaves, I mean that she never punishes her boyfriend, she never gets angry about something else and takes it out on her boyfriend, and she never does anything to deliberately hurt anyone she loves, even when she's genuinely annoyed with them. What makes her special is the things she has in common with Lorelai, and I appreciate her big feelings far more than her big potential.
Okay, so if Rory is all that (which I don’t think is 100% the case but for now let’s say she is).  Rory is all that and that’s why men fall at her feet.  How do they know she’s all that before they get to know her?  I don’t know if that’s the point Dani was trying to make earlier or not, but it’s one I’ve struggled with when analyzing her seemingly irrational pheromones.  I can see all the good qualities you describe about her and why they make her all that.  I’ll even concede to say that her personality plus looks (but she’s no Bobbi in that department, lol) plus brains can make her all that.  But with the way men do fall at her feet, it’s before she lets them know her.  It’s just based on a kind smile or a kind word.  A - singular not plural meaning there is not a lot that adds up to them falling for her (the ice cream guy? come on).  Except with Logan (you were wondering where I was going with that weren’t you?).  The fact that he knew she was different from the beginning doesn’t say much to me because apparently every man that meets her picks that up.  It’s the fact that he got to know her and had it confirmed that she was all that before jumping into things. 

Logan has made it clear that he does not hate his life and is not embarrassed for being a Huntsburger, never has been as far as we’ve seen.  He shouldn’t be unless he were Mitchum.  And even then, Mitchum clearly works very hard (I don’t mind him all that much, I should point that out) so, despite his apparent ruthlessness, what’s to say he doesn’t deserve what he has either?  People don’t have to have unlimited funds in order to be selfish.  Someone could be dirt poor and be considered selfish, the two don’t go hand in hand.  So Logan should be looked down upon because he does like working for his father’s company?  That makes no sense to me.  I know it’s been explained a couple times now but I personally can’t find fault in him showing a little respect to the family name and giving it a shot (remember, he wasn’t at gunpoint or anything here).  Respect is the key.  While Lorelei may have been correct, and justified, and looked up to for chucking her family history it was extremely disrespectful in itself.  So is he a sissy for not saying NO?  Not necessarily.  Is it 100% out of respect?  Of course not, but to me it seems to be part of it. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 19, 2007, 10:29:27 am
I think they needed to explore that scenerio so it will be done and over with once and for all.

Well, now they do. But we didn't really know she was capable of marrying Christopher (if Luke was out of the picture) until this season.

Quote
I don't think he "Wrapped his head around it" though, because he already knew they were always going to be there. I think he realised that nothing mattered to him as long as he had Lorelai he could deal with Emily, Richard, Christopher, and anything else thrown at him.

That wasn't a typo, LDF. :D On the one hand, what you say may be true, but on the other, Luke didn't "take Lorelai into his arms" until he had Emily's open support in getting her back.

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I disagree here. I don't think her sleeping with Christopher had anything to do with Luke, but was all about her. Lorelai slept with Christopher, because of herself, she still had that fantasy in the back of her head, and when her fears and insecurities got to her, she ran back to that fantasy, to Christopher. You can tell by her face the morning after how she knew it was a mistake, and felt immediate remorse for doing it. You could also see the pain and regret on her face and hear it in her voice when she tells Luke  that she slept with Christopher.

Yeah, she regretted it, but for the reasons Rory said, not because she was rethinking her decision to leave Luke. It wasn't the only way to break up with Luke, but I agree about it being for herself. Not because it was Christopher, but because she had no intention of telling Luke about it while she was using Christopher to distance herself from him.

Quote
I don't really think Luke was all that jealous of Christopher, just annoyed by him. Remember after they got back together Luke didn't care if she spoke or saw him, as long as she didn't hide it from him. That's why he was ok with them meeting to talk when he offered to pay for Yale, and that's why he was ok with her going to Rory's Journalist Panel with Christopher. Christopher would never be ok with any of that, as seen by his mature reaction at the hospital.

Luke got it under control, but Lorelai seemed to think he was still jealous. She winced every time Christopher came up around Luke. I admit his response to Christopher returning to pay for Yale was wholly positive, but it was biased suddenly, and now Lorelai knows why. Further, Luke still thought they'd broken up because of Christopher until his 'different planes' talk with Liz. Then he got into a fistfight with the guy. Yes, Luke was jealous, and yes, he sometimes used it to passively control Lorelai's behavior. It happens, but I believe he's changed now. After all, he did show up at the hospital knowing he might have to see them together.

Quote
Actually she liked his tantrums, which aren't tantrums, but rants. She encourages him to have them, remember the limo ride? The Ultimatum was different, for one she knew Luke didn't like them. Two, she didn't just issue an ultimatum, she was gone for 2 days, which had him worried about her, then she shows up and drops everything she kept inside on him, then gave the ultimatum, them before he could ajust to any of that, she says she met with Anna behind his back, and then just walks away. So it wasn't the ultimatum, but everything combined, and he wasn't angry at her, he was just trying to process everything.

I was actually referring to his 'dark day' year before last. ("But Not As Cute As Pushkin" 5.10) I know, he didn't try to break up with her or anything, but it was an awful lot of yelling about something he couldn't really talk rationally about, let alone warn her about. And instead of refusing to put up with it, she saved his boat and withstood the yelling until he finally got his head wrapped.

The tantrums are something we all can enjoy. Lorelai goes off on rants, too. I just thought she liked it when usually-taciturn Luke finds a subject he can go on forever about, even if it's in a negative way. Heck, he learned most of his adult communication skills from Lorelai (the ones he didn't glean from a self-help book) why shouldn't his long-winded stylings resemble hers?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: HBW on February 19, 2007, 11:01:41 am
I don't think Rory deserves ANYONE on the show.  Neither Dean, Jess NOR Logan is "IT" for her.  All three boyfriends represent three aspects of Rory's personality and three character types she's attracted to. 

--Dean is stable, he's the nice guy, he worshipped her, and he'll always be there. 
--Jess is the bad boy with a loose temper, he's VERY intelligent, he's unpredictable, he's deep, he has a past, he's James Dean.
--Logan is from a different world (the upper society), he's fun, he's spontaneous, he's popular, he's polished, he's charming. 

All of these guys are different.  But I don't think any of them are particularly better than any other.  Jess is not a "step-up" from Dean.  If he was, Rory wouldn't have had her affair with Dean in season 5.  In this way, Logan is not an "improvement" from Rory's past.  He's different than she's ever dated before -- which is why she's attracted to him.  But she was JUST as attracted to Jess and Dean in their day. 

LovelyLaura, I was just in the Season 3 Thread talking about Jess and how much I didn't like, him, but you really did a good job of summing up Rory's boyfriends.  I'm not sure that Logan is a perfect blend (not my physical type at all) but the blend of Jess' smarts and Dean's steadiness (at least Logan is growing into someone stable and kind like Dean).  I still have to say that Dean is my favorite, once again physical type. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 11:31:30 am
All these responses about Logan...most of them in contradiction to what I think, lol...are all very valid.  I'll admit it -- Logan is the ONLY boyfriend of Rory's whom marriage was even considered by outside parties.  Of course, these parties were Emily and Richard who love to imagine Rory becoming "one" with their world.  And Rory is, of course, older now.  So marriage is a little closer to her and Logan than it ever was to Jess and Dean (whom she dated in high school).

But I'm not convinced yet.  There's just something about Logan...I can't put my finger on it.  I don't dislike him.  But I don't trust him.  I don't think I ever have.  I don't know enough about him, and he's still growing on the show.  Anything could happen.  Everything could change in one episode -- and our perception of Logan Huntzberger may be flipped on its ear.  I just don't want to make any concrete judgements about him yet.  He's not permanent enough for me.   Not yet.  I think I'm going to keep on watching...and see what happens.

I did think of this though...why hasn't Logan REALLY visited Stars Hollow?  Lorelei doesn't seem to know him ALL that well.  Neither does the town.  I don't know.  If Logan wants to really appreciate Rory and where she's come from -- he should make an effort to see her outside of his comfort zone.  Hmm, I think he's been to SH once...?  I don't know.  All I know is that if he's "in" like people claim him to be, then he needs to have a burger at Luke's.  That's all I have to say.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 19, 2007, 11:41:01 am
I agree on the point that Logan does need to visit SH to see the place that molded Rory into what she is today.  But as far as him not having been (more than once) yet doesn’t mean that he doesn’t care or will have trouble fitting in.  SH hasn’t been a large part of Rory’s life while she’s been dating Logan either so there hasn’t been much of an opportunity.  He has met Lorelai quite a few times, and been given her nod of approval more or less even though it was only recently.  So that’s a step.  I don’t see Logan having much of a problem in SH.  He seems to adore the quirky things about Rory some of which are very much a part of that town.  Hopefully, it won’t be too disastrous when/if he makes the trip. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 19, 2007, 11:54:24 am
Well, in evaluating Rory's 'thatness' I stumbled across an odd scenario. It's been mentioned that Logan has yet to experience any major setbacks in his field. And that it's inevitable now that Logan has drifted out of the protected waters of his father's influence.
Trying to imagine Rory being there for him, vs any other woman in his generation (including Bobbi, the bridesmaids, even Lindsay, just to make a point) during such a possible setback made for what I think must be a shade of Logan's personal epiphany. To wit, he'd be an idiot to let anything come between them.

And Rory has broken Logan in obvious ways, but Rory belonging to him wasn't just lip-service, either. She's openly and honestly communicating uncomfortable or awkward information when she doesn't know whether or not she has to. Apparently she now trusts Logan not to dump her over feelings she thinks are bad or irrational. That's a big step in any relationship, and you'd be amazed at how far along some real-life relationships get without it happening.

Sorry to whatsisname the TA for assuming he was meant to be Jess. But Jess was a big part of her developing those inhibitions with her feelings. I guess I unconsciously assumed he would have some part in cleaning it up.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 19, 2007, 12:17:31 pm
That’s a good point.  I think Rory would be there for him come hell or high water.  Especially after he took the lead and made an example of what being there for your significant other truly means.  Not to say that she wouldn’t without his example, Rory has always had that loyalty characteristic.  The typical women that were in Logan’s playboy phase wouldn’t even come close to comparing with what he has with Rory in that department.  As far as the age group goes, R/L are probably one of few exceptions.  At that age (not that there’s anything wrong with being 22, but it sets the scene for a lack of experience in handling sticky situations especially with a SO) it would be much easier to turn and run with her tail between her legs. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lsufan on February 19, 2007, 12:21:08 pm
But I'm not convinced yet.  There's just something about Logan...I can't put my finger on it.  I don't dislike him.  But I don't trust him.  I don't think I ever have.  I don't know enough about him, and he's still growing on the show.  Anything could happen.  Everything could change in one episode -- and our perception of Logan Huntzberger may be flipped on its ear.  I just don't want to make any concrete judgements about him yet.  He's not permanent enough for me.   Not yet.  I think I'm going to keep on watching...and see what happens.

I'm with you LovelyLaura on the Logan issue. I'm watching ... and waiting....

I cannot deny that Logan has been shown to have matured and grown and is currently the model boyfriend.... But, I don't know. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop or something, even though I have no reason to believe it will. I've read all the discussions about what makes him or them special and I cannot contradict any of it, but I don't FEEL anything special about them as a couple.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 12:28:55 pm
I've read all the discussions about what makes him or them special and I cannot contradict any of it, but I don't FEEL anything special about them as a couple.

Yeah.  It's hard to argue against someone who's seemingly Mr. Perfect.  Or better yet -- someone who used to have flaws, but has now magically transformed himself into SuperBoyfriend.  It's hard to find a fault, except to know that this is Gilmore Girls and to keep up the drama-rama-rama, a wrench has to be thrown into the system eventually.  Now that Luke and Lorelei are on the pathway to recovery (yay!), something has to happen to screw the other Gilmore.  Unfortunately, that's just the way this show works.

Don't believe me?...

-End of season 4:  Luke and Lorelei FINALLY come together....Rory sleeps with Dean
-End of season 5:  Luke and Lorelei become engaged...Rory drops out of Yale
-Middle of season 6:  Rory and Lorelei reconcile...April drops the 'father' bomb
-End of season 6:  Rory and Logan are on the freeway of love...Lorelei sleeps with Christopher. 

Yeah, this show has a pattern.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 19, 2007, 12:59:24 pm
I would love to see Logan in Stars Hollow, but I don't think it's significant that he hasn't been there yet.  Rory and Logan have made a base in New Haven.  He got to know Rory and get close to her when she was almost completely avoiding Stars Hollow because of her rift with Lorelai.  When she and Lorelai reconciled, she and Logan broke up.  They got back together, but again, Rory spends the bulk of her time at Yale.  And, after that, Logan went to London and now he's in New York.  I'm not saying there haven't been any times opportune to Logan visiting Stars Hollow, but the first ones that come to mind with Rory at home are ones where she wouldn't have wanted Logan there.  The reconcilliation with Lorelai, when she and Logan were broken up.  And, the time after the bridesmaids, when she went to Stars Hollow and didn't tell him where she was. 

I also agree with laurla205 that Lorelai does seem to like Logan.  There haven't been any significant scenes between the two of them, but I can extrapolate (is that a word) that they have a decent mother/daughter's boyfriend kind of relationship.  It was only a few seconds, but they seemed pretty comfortable in Introducing Lorelai Planetarium, when Lorelai came to talk to Rory. 

I also don't think Logan is perfect.  He's perceptive and can read Rory very well, but he neglected to mention that Bobbi was a woman.  Not that it was malicious or calculated, but perfect would mean he would have said something to prepare her.  But, he's good because he did notice something was bothering her and reassured her.  He got jealous of Marty.  I still think he had excellent points about Rory's article and her attitude, but he did lose his temper and although he was only pointing out the irony of Rory saying that other people had things handed to them while she wasn't exactly sweating it out on the chain gang, he probably would have been more careful in how he phrased the not paying rent comment if he had been less upset.  So, I'm not seeing perfection.  I'm seeing that he admits his faults pretty quickly which helps him and Rory reconcile more easily.

Quote
Everything could change in one episode -- and our perception of Logan Huntzberger may be flipped on its ear
.

that makes it sound like Logan is teetering on the edge of a pin, and he has to be perfect because if he does something wrong in one episode, that erases anything good he's done in multiple episodes.  Now, if next week we see Logan in bed in New York, talking to Rory on the phone and the camera pans to another woman, that would turn things around.  Although it would be totally against the way his storyline has developed.  Although, from reading multiple boards, if it did happen there would be a number of people for who that just confirmed their suspicions.  Because everytime Logan appears, people speculate he has a woman on the side.  He comes to support Rory at the hospital and doesn't answer his beeper?  Does that mean he's putting being with Rory in her time of need first?  No, he's got some woman on the other end and doesn't want Rory to know.   Okay, I'm going to stop ranting on that end.  (rant rant rant rant rant - had to get it out of my system)  But, I really do hope that Logan isn't judged more strictly than other characters who are allowed to make mistakes, act stupid, make you want to slap them, but ultimately aren't cast out of decent society.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: laurla205 on February 19, 2007, 12:59:56 pm
But if it’s headed toward the end of the series couldn’t/wouldn’t it be that they satisfy the parallel/pattern and have both of the GGs parried off (not necessarily married, because I'm not sure I want that for Rory either, but safely together with a man)?  I hate that R/L are my weakness.

Back to what Rory has to offer, while I agree with Rory’s ‘thatness’ qualities, doesn’t it still stand that these are not qualities you see in her at a glance?  But ones that you see only by becoming a part of her inner circle (or maybe you just have to get halfway into her inner circle because she never does anything intentionally to hurt someone in her circle or otherwise.  But if you’re not in her circle do you even notice?).  Which still doesn’t explain the darned pheromones…


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: rodasmith on February 19, 2007, 01:06:55 pm
Did anyone else hear Zach play the melody from "Stairway to Heaven" when he was supposed to be playing "My Heart Will Go On"?  I thought it was a clever move on the character's part to sneak that in.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 19, 2007, 01:34:25 pm
  I hate that R/L are my weakness.

It's a sickness.  Before Logan, I was saying that Rory should be single.  And, not have any stories about how she's without a man.  It wouldn't even be anything comment worthy that she was single.  Before she and Logan became exclusive, I really didn't want them to get together.  Not because of anything against Logan (which should be obvious from my posts) but because I thought it would be interesting if some guy didn't think she was all that.  I thought it would have been great if Logan just saw her as a pretty nice girl that he liked to hang out with, but she wasn't any better than lots of other girls he's been with.  I was a totally different person back then.  But, they drew me in, and I just love them together, a devoted and committed couple.  Unattached?  (Single implies not married.  I think unattached is more specifically not with someone)  Bah.  No more.  I want her with Logan.


Oh, and I think it was your post that mentioned a person can appreciate someone's looks and still have an opinion about them that carries more weight than just thinking they're good looking.  I completely agree. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: xxLL4Everxx on February 19, 2007, 01:43:04 pm
I sort of like that Rory is dating Logan. He is okay. I prefer her with Jess but Logan will do.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lsufan on February 19, 2007, 02:58:33 pm
But, I really do hope that Logan isn't judged more strictly than other characters who are allowed to make mistakes, act stupid, make you want to slap them, but ultimately aren't cast out of decent society.

For me, it's not about judging Logan. I simply don't like him all that much. I don't dislike him either, and I'm not blind to his changes, but none of that makes me like him any better. It doesn't mean that I'm waiting for him and Rory to split or for him to revert to the jerk he was when he was first introduced.

Must we all be thought of as judging characters or giving some a pass and others the noose? Can it sometimes be as simple as not liking someone (even a fictional character) because something about them clashes with our own personality?



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 19, 2007, 03:07:26 pm
^ i think that plays a BIG part in it! awesome observation.

It doesnt matter if the person is real or fiction, you wont like them if they clash with your own personality. i believe that if i came in contact with logan in real life, i would completely clash with him. maybe thats why i dont like him.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 03:09:35 pm
I agree with Isufan and whiffenpoof.  I'm not trying to judge Logan any more harshly than anyone.  I just don't trust him.  Plus, Logan's still one of the newest members of the permanent cast.  Of course I'm going to be watching him carefully.

Plus, I can't forget the way he acted when we first met him.  It's taken me years to warm up to Jess (and he's not even on the show anymore), but it's hard for jerk to rub off. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 19, 2007, 03:15:05 pm
Must we all be thought of as judging characters or giving some a pass and others the noose? Can it sometimes be as simple as not liking someone (even a fictional character) because something about them clashes with our own personality?

Well, since none of us are ever likely to meet Logan Huntzberger, I'm not so sure.

In any case, there are a bajiliion ways Logan could disqualify himself. If he feels the wrong way about the denizens of Stars Hollow, for example. Or if Mitch gets involved and Logan backs down again. Or, God forbid, Logan could insist that if she married him, it wouldn't matter what she did after graduation.

Of course, none of these things will happen, Logan will probably just get more and more 'perfect' as time wears on. That's the thing, isn't it? However else he compares to her exes, he's been around longest and through the most with her. If I'm any judge of the core tenets, that counts for a lot.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 19, 2007, 03:20:01 pm
Well, now they do. But we didn't really know she was capable of marrying Christopher (if Luke was out of the picture) until this season.
|

But Luke wasn't out of the picture. She married Christopher because of the pain she felt, because she felt she would never marry Luke. Plus Sookie's comment, Lorelai's wave to Luke, and her ending her marriage with Luke shows that she would never have married Christopher if Luke was never in the picture, that was the whole point of Sookie's comment.

That wasn't a typo, LDF. :D On the one hand, what you say may be true, but on the other, Luke didn't "take Lorelai into his arms" until he had Emily's open support in getting her back.

I don't see it that way and him and Lorelai said she had nothing to do with their decission. If that was the case, then he would have broken up with Lorelai when Emily insulted him later, because he would have realized she didn't support them. I think him seeing Emily there, and being able to deal with her and just to see her truly in action made him realize he can deal with the Gilmores, CHristopher, and all the crazy that comes with them, as long as he had Lorelai.

Yeah, she regretted it, but for the reasons Rory said, not because she was rethinking her decision to leave Luke. It wasn't the only way to break up with Luke, but I agree about it being for herself. Not because it was Christopher, but because she had no intention of telling Luke about it while she was using Christopher to distance herself from him.

She was regretting it because she realized she just screwed up and she thought Luke would never love her again. She had to tell him, because she couldn't stand the guilt. It was all about her, and how she felt like she was never going to get married, and there was Christopher, and that old fantasy image came back and boom, mistake.

Luke got it under control, but Lorelai seemed to think he was still jealous. She winced every time Christopher came up around Luke. I admit his response to Christopher returning to pay for Yale was wholly positive, but it was biased suddenly, and now Lorelai knows why. Further, Luke still thought they'd broken up because of Christopher until his 'different planes' talk with Liz. Then he got into a fistfight with the guy. Yes, Luke was jealous, and yes, he sometimes used it to passively control Lorelai's behavior. It happens, but I believe he's changed now. After all, he did show up at the hospital knowing he might have to see them together.

She was sensitive to Luke's feelings, that's all. Luke wasn't jealous as long as she didn't hide it from him. If felt her handing that message as a sign of guilt, but once they cleared that up, he was ok, as long as she was honest.

I was actually referring to his 'dark day' year before last. ("But Not As Cute As Pushkin" 5.10) I know, he didn't try to break up with her or anything, but it was an awful lot of yelling about something he couldn't really talk rationally about, let alone warn her about. And instead of refusing to put up with it, she saved his boat and withstood the yelling until he finally got his head wrapped.

I think she got that it was painful for him, remember she was there when he talked about his dad, when it snowed, when they were getting ready to paint, and when she helped him bury his uncle. She realised he was hurt and didn't mean it and that's why she took the boat, because she knew once he cooled down he would regret it, and never forgive himself.

The tantrums are something we all can enjoy. Lorelai goes off on rants, too. I just thought she liked it when usually-taciturn Luke finds a subject he can go on forever about, even if it's in a negative way. Heck, he learned most of his adult communication skills from Lorelai (the ones he didn't glean from a self-help book) why shouldn't his long-winded stylings resemble hers?

See I see the rants as his thing. Luke builds up and just busts loose, we saw this at the first town meeting. Lorelai, is more of a wonderer, her mind just runs off and she spews out things and some of them make no sense, or has nothing to do with what she started off with.

As for Rory, I'm a Rory/Marty fan myself, they just match right for me. I think he's her Luke, the guy that's under her nose, the whole time and one day she'll realize that.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 03:24:22 pm
I like Marty as well.   ;D  Don't know if it would actually work, but I love him. 

Rory and Logan have been together for the most continuous amount of time, but Rory is known for her long relationships.  Dean didn't go away until the middle of season 5, and we were still seeing Jess last year. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 19, 2007, 03:35:35 pm
But, I really do hope that Logan isn't judged more strictly than other characters who are allowed to make mistakes, act stupid, make you want to slap them, but ultimately aren't cast out of decent society.

For me, it's not about judging Logan. I simply don't like him all that much. I don't dislike him either, and I'm not blind to his changes, but none of that makes me like him any better. It doesn't mean that I'm waiting for him and Rory to split or for him to revert to the jerk he was when he was first introduced.

Must we all be thought of as judging characters or giving some a pass and others the noose? Can it sometimes be as simple as not liking someone (even a fictional character) because something about them clashes with our own personality?



I didn't think judging was a pejorative term.  Every character gets judged by my way of defining the word.  We make judge whether or not their actions are good, bad, valid, irrational.  I don't see how a person can avoid making judgements of a character.  When I said that Logan got jealous of Marty, that was me making a judgement of his actions. People judge characters they like, they judge characters they don't like.   Substitute criticize for judge, if that sounds better.  And, I do think that if the perceptions of him can be changed based on only one episode (again, unless he does something outrageously horrible) that he's hanging by a thread that's much more slender than most other characters.  As a comparison, people were disappointed in Rory when she slept with Dean, they felt she was wrong, that she was a juvenile little bratty monster (okay, that was me) for that particular action and her attitude, but did people shift their opinion of her entirel character based on that one episode?  If there are people who did, I'm guessing they're in a minority.  I'm just saying, there are very few characters that I think would be able to make someone's opinions of them get flipped on the basis of a single episode.  It usually takes seeing a pattern of behavior to decide that a character has become different, either in a negative or a positive way.

This is the way I was using the word judge (I'm guessing criticize might also be seen differently from what I mean) From Webster.com:
Quote
to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises
 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Alexandria on February 19, 2007, 04:45:31 pm
But if it’s headed toward the end of the series couldn’t/wouldn’t it be that they satisfy the parallel/pattern and have both of the GGs parried off (not necessarily married, because I'm not sure I want that for Rory either, but safely together with a man)? 

I don't feel particularly strong one way or the other about Logan and Rory staying together or breaking up yet. Neither would leave me heartbroken or grinning from ear to ear at this point.

But I don't think it's necessary for both of the Gilmore Girls to end up with anyone in particular if this is indeed the last season. Because I think mother and daughter are at different stages in their lives. Lorelai has now established a successful life for herself independent from her parents. She has her own life and a successful inn and now she's ready for marriage and more kids if she wants. Rory on the other hand is starting a new phase of her life. She will have just graduated school and will need to either pursue more schooling or start her career. It would be nice if she did it with Logan at her side, but in some ways, I think it would be a nice parallel to her mom's life if she embarked on a career while single as her mom established her own life as a young single mother.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 04:58:48 pm
Rory on the other hand is starting a new phase of her life. She will have just graduated school and will need to either pursue more schooling or start her career. It would be nice if she did it with Logan at her side, but in some ways, I think it would be a nice parallel to her mom's life if she embarked on a career while single as her mom established her own life as a young single mother.

My point exactly! 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovesToRead on February 19, 2007, 05:12:00 pm
That's the thing, isn't it? However else he compares to her exes, he's been around longest and through the most with her. If I'm any judge of the core tenets, that counts for a lot.

I agree with you that the sheer length of their relationship especially given what they have endured counts in Logan's favor.  They have had some big rough patches but they seem to be able to work through it.  They've gone through some extreem ups and big downs but that's all part of being in a relationship.

Rory on the other hand is starting a new phase of her life. She will have just graduated school and will need to either pursue more schooling or start her career. It would be nice if she did it with Logan at her side, but in some ways, I think it would be a nice parallel to her mom's life if she embarked on a career while single as her mom established her own life as a young single mother.

I guess that's all a matter of opinion but it seems to me that Lorelai has worked pretty hard to see that Rory's life doesn't parallel hers.  And I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with being single but I do think that the good things in life are better when you have a partner to share them with.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 05:12:53 pm
Gosh, how many more times do I have to post in order to change my status.  Probably, like, a bazillion more times.  There BETTER be a season 8...if only so I can rise above the lowly status of tourist.  


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 19, 2007, 05:16:42 pm
HAHA! i know! i felt like it took me forever to move up from a tourist!! lol! i finally got fed up and went on the fun and games thread and did some of those alot. then i started having conversations with people by posting. that got me alot!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 05:18:20 pm
Hmm fun and games, you say?  I've never been over there.  It would probably be super-distracting...since I'm supposed to be writing a paper now.  Grrr.  But hey!  I have a picture now of my main man, Luke!  Woo!  And I'm up to 50 posts now...yay me!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 05:18:58 pm
Oh my goodness!  Just as I said that, it changed!  YAY!  I'm not a tourist!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on February 19, 2007, 05:36:34 pm
Hmm fun and games, you say?  I've never been over there.  It would probably be super-distracting...since I'm supposed to be writing a paper now.  Grrr.  But hey!  I have a picture now of my main man, Luke!  Woo!  And I'm up to 50 posts now...yay me!

The fun and games threads=distracting yet fun.  Come to think about it the org in general is.  I can never get any of my work done b/c I love coming on here so much.   :)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: SD_love24 on February 19, 2007, 05:42:33 pm
I go on the games at other sites, (here also.) to grow my posts amount...it works..lol

Yeah, my two cents about this episode:

It was sad, at least on Lorelai's part. The guy she wants...she doesn't want. Yeah, still sounds confusing to me but its GG so I'll let it slide. I'm not going to sugarcoat this,the chris/lorelai relationship was dying...fast. It needed to end. Not sure if Lorelai is going to immediately jump into Luke's arms. Gotta wait for the next episode for that. Lorelai can be pretty unpredictable when she wants to be. Logan and Rory were wonderful. Logan's understanding amazed me. It's good that he's grown up.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 19, 2007, 05:47:44 pm
i never get my work done either!!!! this site is so amazing when youve got noone in your life to talk GG with. heck, not only can you talk GG you can play games and stuff with GG fans too!! wwwwwwwwwwoooooooooooooooooooooooo for  the ORG!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on February 19, 2007, 05:52:31 pm
Gosh, how many more times do I have to post in order to change my status.  Probably, like, a bazillion more times.  There BETTER be a season 8...if only so I can rise above the lowly status of tourist.  

It takes a loooong time to move up.  I'm still trying to get out of this diner. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 06:07:12 pm
This board DOES rock.  No one in my life shares my level of obsession with GG.  In high school, I used to discuss it every Wednesday during History class, but alas -- that person and I do not attend the same school anymore!  My roommate thinks I'm weird for bringing it up on...Sunday...or some weird day like that.  I just can't help myself!   ;D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 19, 2007, 06:09:36 pm
i used to come in every wednesday in homeroom and tell them what happened, noone listened.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: snicklefritz on February 19, 2007, 06:17:27 pm
This board DOES rock.  No one in my life shares my level of obsession with GG.  In high school, I used to discuss it every Wednesday during History class, but alas -- that person and I do not attend the same school anymore!  My roommate thinks I'm weird for bringing it up on...Sunday...or some weird day like that.  I just can't help myself!   ;D
I don't really have anyone who shares my gg obsession either... my mom watches it, so i talk to her about it... but i think she gets tired of hearing me talk about it...lol  I can't help myself either! Anything can remind me of GG, lol


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Heidi on February 19, 2007, 07:15:12 pm
Screencaps.  Enjoy!

http://www.gilmoregirls.org/screencaps/episode714/

In my humble opinion, some of the caps look really fun.  I made sure to get a shot of 'Producer, Lauren Graham' and also when Luke/Lorelai waved to each other from the diner. ;)

~Heidi


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: thatdamndonnareed on February 19, 2007, 07:53:18 pm
whiffenpoof...i freaking love your signature to death

as far as any of my friends sharing my opinion, my boss (who is really like my best friend) said  "i have never met anyone who liked that show" I watch it at college and my mom watches it at home, and at 9:01pm every Tuesday i call my mom up and we talk the entire episode out


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 19, 2007, 07:56:29 pm
my mom watches it too, and loves it of course, but she gets sick of me talking about it ALL THE TIME. thanks for liking my sig ;D


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 08:03:08 pm
Hey, my mom watched it too!   ;D  It's very appropriate, it being a show about mothers and daughters.  Of course, my mom is now taking night classes (hey...just like Lorelai!) on Tuesday nights so I have to basically re-cap every episode in the greatest of detail.  Unfortunately, I think she tires of me rambling on for nearly 2 hours every Tuesday night.  It's kind of funny though.  My dad has taken to watching it lately.  He'll call me up on Wednesday and be like "So, did you watch Gilmore Girls!  Didn't Lorelai look sad the end..." (that was for last week).  I don't know.  It's kind of funny.  And I have to agree that EVERYTHING REMINDS ME OF GILMORE GIRLS.  It's insane.  I drive my friends crazy, I drive my parents crazy, I drive my boyfriend crazy.  I'll just be sitting there, at my college newspaper late at night, chuckling because damn I feel like Rory some days.  Too bad I don't go to Yale.  That would be sweet.  Anyway, life = Gilmore Girls.  Everything relates.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: whiffenpoof on February 19, 2007, 08:11:04 pm
my dad swears he hates it and it lame, but i always catch him watching it and laughing at it!

everything reminds me of GG too. all my friends want to kill me with my endless stories and quotes.

my boyfriend is slowly getting into it. he knows we are just like Luke and Lorelai, i let him borrow my season 6 dvds and he watched them all. and we really are, which is pretty awesome. well, i wouldnt cheat on him, but we are just like them in every other way :P

i love the show, and i wish i had more people in my life that could discuss it. o well, at least ive got the org!! woohoo!

^^ thats coolio that you work at a newspaper AND your mom goes to night classes--hehe..


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 19, 2007, 08:17:09 pm
Sorry to interrupt the discussion with one of my long-winded replies. I must post before bed (it's a compulsion,) but please feel free to carry on as though I hadn't.

But Luke wasn't out of the picture. She married Christopher because of the pain she felt, because she felt she would never marry Luke. Plus Sookie's comment, Lorelai's wave to Luke, and her ending her marriage with Luke shows that she would never have married Christopher if Luke was never in the picture, that was the whole point of Sookie's comment.

Well, unless I misremember, a million years ago when their lives were both free and clear, she was ready to give it a shot. Luke's attempts at stealth dating were still a year away, so if he was in the picture, she didn't know it yet. Ironically, it was Sookie who was so keen on them making it happen after so many years apart. Well, Sookie and Emily. ("I Can't Get Started" 2.22)

Quote
I don't see it that way and him and Lorelai said she had nothing to do with their decission. If that was the case, then he would have broken up with Lorelai when Emily insulted him later, because he would have realized she didn't support them. I think him seeing Emily there, and being able to deal with her and just to see her truly in action made him realize he can deal with the Gilmores, CHristopher, and all the crazy that comes with them, as long as he had Lorelai.

Well, sure he can deal with them, now that they're no longer actively against him. And what's this about their decision? I'm not too impressed with Lorelai's insistence. She wasn't there. And it does explain why the Gilmore-ing blindsided Luke so much. He thought Emily was on his side. Little did he realize, that was Emily on his side.

Quote
She was regretting it because she realized she just screwed up and she thought Luke would never love her again. She had to tell him, because she couldn't stand the guilt. It was all about her, and how she felt like she was never going to get married, and there was Christopher, and that old fantasy image came back and boom, mistake.

Yeah, but in the morning when the fantasy was over, she still didn't want to want Luke. Christopher was not an option for her the second she sobered up, but going back to Luke wasn't either. Not because of the tryst, but because of that whole bumper thing. Sleeping with Christopher hurt both Christopher and Luke, but it's not why she said no to his proposal.

Quote
She was sensitive to Luke's feelings, that's all. Luke wasn't jealous as long as she didn't hide it from him. If felt her handing that message as a sign of guilt, but once they cleared that up, he was ok, as long as she was honest.

She didn't hide anything the time Christopher left a message on her machine, but Luke blew a gasket over it. In fact, the only time he's responded positively to Christopher's involvement was when he was hip-deep (and digging) in his own messy deception.

Quote
I think she got that it was painful for him, remember she was there when he talked about his dad, when it snowed, when they were getting ready to paint, and when she helped him bury his uncle. She realised he was hurt and didn't mean it and that's why she took the boat, because she knew once he cooled down he would regret it, and never forgive himself.

Luke could just have easily(!) guessed she would regret what she'd do if she walked away that night. But that's not the point. Luke wasn't there for her that night because he doesn't like ultimatums, and he does like to be alone when he's thinking. Unfortunately, he did all his thinking after he was told to make up his mind and 'missed the boat.' It happens, but up until then, she'd waited for him.

Quote
See I see the rants as his thing. Luke builds up and just busts loose, we saw this at the first town meeting. Lorelai, is more of a wonderer, her mind just runs off and she spews out things and some of them make no sense, or has nothing to do with what she started off with.

Whatever, his rants aren't like his rages. Good thing Lorelai can take a little more being yelled at than I.
Quote


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: LovelyLaura on February 19, 2007, 08:20:33 pm
Do you know the only good thing about Mondays?  Tuesday is tomorrow!  ;D

lol...I'm not discussing the episode any longer.  Oh well.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 19, 2007, 08:25:39 pm
It's Monday in the Atlantic Ocean right now.

*edit I mean Teusday.
*edit and I misspelled Tuesday.

Sigh, it's too late for me to be posting. The grammar police are lined up to haul me off to bed.


PS, for more Luke versus Lorelai RE: Christopher, see  The Season Six Finale Thread (http://www.gilmoregirls.org/forum/index.php?topic=4152.0).

If you skip every post under five hundred words, you can recreate the debate we're having here.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 20, 2007, 08:47:29 am
Well, unless I misremember, a million years ago when their lives were both free and clear, she was ready to give it a shot. Luke's attempts at stealth dating were still a year away, so if he was in the picture, she didn't know it yet. Ironically, it was Sookie who was so keen on them making it happen after so many years apart. Well, Sookie and Emily. ("I Can't Get Started" 2.22)

Actually both started earlier then that. In the 1st Season Lorelai comments on how nice Luke looks, and Luke says she always looks nice, at the of of "Pilot".

Then you have Luke being visably jealous of Lorelai in "The Lorelai's First Day At Chilton" when she tells him about the dad who asked her out. Then at the end of the episode Lorelai asks Rory what she thought of Luke, and clearly implied that she was interested, even commenting how he was cute. Rory even picked up that Lorelai was interested.

Then it was in "Rory's Birthdays" that Emily first commented on Luke & Lorelai. She then commented on it again in "Forgiveness and Stuff" where Luke & Lorelai flirted with each other with the whole "You always look good" comment.

Then in "Double Date" Luke was about to ask Lorelai out, but was interupted, by Mrs. Kim. Then the next day he was going to ask her out , and Lorelai was anticipating it, but he lost his nerve.

So right from the beginning they both knew they were attracted to the other, but neither was willing to admit it until Season 4.

Well, sure he can deal with them, now that they're no longer actively against him. And what's this about their decision? I'm not too impressed with Lorelai's insistence. She wasn't there. And it does explain why the Gilmore-ing blindsided Luke so much. He thought Emily was on his side. Little did he realize, that was Emily on his side.

Yet they were still against him. Emily basically ripped him a knew one when she confronted him in "Pulp Friction", so he knows that they aren't with him, but are tolerating him because they want Lorelai in their lives.

In "Pulp Friction" we find out that their make up wasn't just as simple as Luke Kissing Lorelai at the door, but it was the beginning. After that they apprently talked it out and reconciled. So all Emily's visit did was make Luke realize he can tolerate her talking down to him and treating him like crap, what he couldn't tolerate was not being with Lorelai.

Yeah, but in the morning when the fantasy was over, she still didn't want to want Luke. Christopher was not an option for her the second she sobered up, but going back to Luke wasn't either. Not because of the tryst, but because of that whole bumper thing. Sleeping with Christopher hurt both Christopher and Luke, but it's not why she said no to his proposal.

Tt wasn't a question of her wanting to want him, she did want him, she just thought he didn't want her in the whole married for 40 years having a middle happily ever after way. And she realized the next morning that she was wrong and that sleeping with Christopher meant Luke would never want her at all, and she knew she would have to tell him, because she couldn't let him think otherwise.

She said no to Luke because she knew she slept with Christopher, and she knew he would be angry and wouldn't want her when she told him.

She didn't hide anything the time Christopher left a message on her machine, but Luke blew a gasket over it. In fact, the only time he's responded positively to Christopher's involvement was when he was hip-deep (and digging) in his own messy deception.

Was she hiding anything? No. Did her deleting the message when Luke walked in look like she was? Yes. The fact that she was listening to it until the second she saw him, then jumped to erase it look like she was hiding something from him. After they fought and she went to his apartment and they talked about it, he realized it was nothing and he told her he can deal with Christopher, as long as she didn't try to hide things again. After that he was ok with Christopher, just as he was ok with Christopher before "Wedding Bell Blues". When she told him about the lunch, he was ok with it. When she said he was at the wedding he was ok with it. It wasn't until she lied about Christopher that he had a problem with him, and once they discussed it, he was ok again until she slept with him.

Luke could just have easily(!) guessed she would regret what she'd do if she walked away that night. But that's not the point. Luke wasn't there for her that night because he doesn't like ultimatums, and he does like to be alone when he's thinking. Unfortunately, he did all his thinking after he was told to make up his mind and 'missed the boat.' It happens, but up until then, she'd waited for him.

But it wasn't the only thing that was said. If all that happened was Lorelai giving him the ultimatum, then it would be different, but it wasn't. You have to factor in everything else to understand his state of mind at the time. He was worried about her for 2 days she was missing, no one knew where she was, no one was telling him anything, and then she shows up and drops her feelings about April on him. Then she drops the ultimatum on him. Then she drops her talking to Anna on him. Then she just leaves. He's standing there still trying to recover. It's not like she went home, and Luke never showed up, she left, she drove away to Christopher's and Luke had no idea where she was again. So for all we know he was trying to find her that night, but she was no where around again, so he went home and came back again first thing in the morning. Like I said you have to factor in everything to that night, not just the ultimatum.

Whatever, his rants aren't like his rages. Good thing Lorelai can take a little more being yelled at than I.
Quote

They both yell at each other. Pls she realised with the boat it wasn't about her or the older lady it was about him and his father.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: xxLL4Everxx on February 20, 2007, 09:08:00 am
Pretty much everything reminds me of Gilmore Girls! At school I always talk about it and it drives my friends and parents crazy. After last weeks episode I ran around the house sticking my fist in the air and yelling: YES!!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 20, 2007, 03:07:41 pm
Actually both started earlier then that. In the 1st Season Lorelai comments on how nice Luke looks, and Luke says she always looks nice, at the of of "Pilot".
Then you have Luke being visably jealous of Lorelai in "The Lorelai's First Day At Chilton" when she tells him about the dad who asked her out. Then at the end of the episode Lorelai asks Rory what she thought of Luke, and clearly implied that she was interested, even commenting how he was cute. Rory even picked up that Lorelai was interested.
Then it was in "Rory's Birthdays" that Emily first commented on Luke & Lorelai. She then commented on it again in "Forgiveness and Stuff" where Luke & Lorelai flirted with each other with the whole "You always look good" comment.
Then in "Double Date" Luke was about to ask Lorelai out, but was interupted, by Mrs. Kim. Then the next day he was going to ask her out , and Lorelai was anticipating it, but he lost his nerve.
So right from the beginning they both knew they were attracted to the other, but neither was willing to admit it until Season 4.

It was established in the Rory/Logan debate that a latent attraction does not constitute someone "being in the picture." At that point, Luke was just a possibility, the same way all her boyfriends were before she started dating them. In any case, whatever Luke was to her, she wasn't hesitating with Christopher at Sookie's wedding.

Quote
Yet they were still against him. Emily basically ripped him a knew one when she confronted him in "Pulp Friction", so he knows that they aren't with him, but are tolerating him because they want Lorelai in their lives.

Right - so as long as they behave, Lorelai will not cut them off, therefore they must behave while Luke is a part of her life. How is that not a condition of Luke being with her? He turned her down when she offered to cut them off, but changed his mind when Emily admitted Lorelai had not misrepresented her ability to do so.
When Lorelai ripped Emily a new one she said it was because it was Emily's fault they'd broken up, and not her own. (Is that what you're saying, LDF?) And that speech never would have happened if Emily had not been there lecturing Luke the night he changed his mind.

Quote
In "Pulp Friction" we find out that their make up wasn't just as simple as Luke Kissing Lorelai at the door, but it as the beginning. After that they apprently talked it out and reconciled. So all Emily's visit did was make Luke realize he can tolerate her talking down to him and treating him like crap, what he couldn't tolerate was not being with Lorelai.

Well, if he'd been able to figure that out without Emily telling him to, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Quote
Tt wasn't a question of her wanting to want him, she did want him, she just thought he didn't want her in the whole married for 40 years having a middle happily ever after way. And she realized the next morning that she was wrong and that sleeping with Christopher meant Luke would never want her at all, and she knew she would have to tell him, because she couldn't let him think otherwise.
She said no to Luke because she knew she slept with Christopher, and she knew he would be angry and wouldn't want her when she told him.

She slept with Christopher because it would make Luke unavailable to her, not in spite of it. I'm not reading between the lines, this is what she said to Sookie. She realized Luke wasn't prepared to give her what she dreamed of, so she tried to leave. She still wanted him, but didn't want to want him because she thought she couldn't have him (at least not the way she wanted. Re: Lynnie.)

Quote
Was she hiding anything? No. Did her deleting the message when Luke walked in look like she was? Yes. The fact that she was listening to it until the second she saw him, then jumped to erase it look like she was hiding something from him. After they fought and she went to his apartment and they talked about it, he realized it was nothing and he told her he can deal with Christopher, as long as she didn't try to hide things again. After that he was ok with Christopher, just as he was ok with Christopher before "Wedding Bell Blues". When she told him about the lunch, he was ok with it. When she said he was at the wedding he was ok with it. It wasn't until she lied about Christopher that he had a problem with him, and once they discussed it, he was ok again until she slept with him.

The episode is "He's Slippin' Em Bread, Dig?" 6.10. Lorelai has Lunch with Christopher, then tells him about it after he has had a long talk with Liz about April. They even referenced the "infamous" call he wigged over in the conversation.
And there is a huge difference between dishonesty and behavior that Luke finds suspicious. Heck, considering his enlightened reactions from before, she could have been transfixed in fear at the sound of Christopher's voice.

Don't get me wrong, I can imagine Luke would be suspicious. But (loudly) accusing her of repeating Tequila night and keeping it to herself was playing with dynamite. If he didn't believe she'd learned her lesson, why did he get back together with her?

Quote
But it wasn't the only thing that was said. If all that happened was Lorelai giving him the ultimatum, then it would be different, but it wasn't. You have to factor in everything else to understand his state of mind at the time. He was worried about her for 2 days she was missing, no one knew where she was, no one was telling him anything, and then she shows up and drops her feelings about April on him. Then she drops the ultimatum on him. Then she drops her talking to Anna on him. Then she just leaves. He's standing there still trying to recover. It's not like she went home, and Luke never showed up, she left, she drove away to Christopher's and Luke had no idea where she was again. So for all we know he was trying to find her that night, but she was no where around again, so he went home and came back again first thing in the morning. Like I said you have to factor in everything to that night, not just the ultimatum.

Right. I get that Luke was blindsided. But I don't think talking it out or catching up to her sooner would have yielded anything different. She wanted to break up with him because Anna was right: she wasn't really enough a part of Luke's life to be part of the package Luke had to offer April.
I can't say it enough: She was going to break up with him anyway. Giving him a chance to elope and prove all her doubts were unfounded was her last concession to wanting him. He said no, and so she followed through. How do you think Luke would have felt if he thought she hadn't meant what she said, and they got back together as though nothing had happened?

Quote
They both yell at each other. Pls she realised with the boat it wasn't about her or the older lady it was about him and his father.

There's an old saying: A person who is yelling either really, really means what he is saying, or he really, really doesn't mean what he's saying. Figure it out.

Seriously, for a rockin' good dissection of the Ins and Outs of Luke, Lorelai, and Christopher (Plus the psychology of Mitch and Logan and Mike's legendary "What makes a real man/woman debate) check out  The Season Six Finale Thread (http://www.gilmoregirls.org/forum/index.php?topic=4152.0).


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: bribribooboo on February 20, 2007, 04:54:50 pm
Can someone please recorde fubary20th episode for me and put it on you tube.


   
                                            thanks  bri.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: snicklefritz on February 20, 2007, 05:00:10 pm
whiffenpoof...i freaking love your signature to death

as far as any of my friends sharing my opinion, my boss (who is really like my best friend) said  "i have never met anyone who liked that show" I watch it at college and my mom watches it at home, and at 9:01pm every Tuesday i call my mom up and we talk the entire episode out
last year when i was in college my mom and I did the exact same thing, lol.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Luke Danes Fan on February 21, 2007, 10:02:22 am
It was established in the Rory/Logan debate that a latent attraction does not constitute someone "being in the picture." At that point, Luke was just a possibility, the same way all her boyfriends were before she started dating them. In any case, whatever Luke was to her, she wasn't hesitating with Christopher at Sookie's wedding.

True, an attraction doesn't equal someone "Being in the picture", but it was more then Lorelai or Luke finding the other attractive, everyone could tell that they had deep feelings for each other, I mean Taylor had a plan set into motion in case they ever broke up. Sookie, Emily, Rory, Liz, Stars Hollow, everyone knew it, so Luke wasn't like her other boyfriends at all.

Lorelai falls into a routine with Christopher, they have sex, and then the other shoe drops and she realizes he's not the man she wants. He asked her to marry him in Season 1 in "Christopher Returns", she wouldn't. Christopher represent her past, the days when she wild and carefree, before she had Rory. She still has that fantasy about them, and when she gets down or scared in a relationship, esspecially she falls back on it, because she knows it won't happen. When she was going to marry Max, she fell back on it, and called Christopher, then called of her wedding. Then at Sookie & Jackson's wedding she sees, two people who are perfect for each other getting ready to get married, and she wants that, and falls back on her old fantasy again with Christopher, and then the other shoe drops, and she wakes up.

Right - so as long as they behave, Lorelai will not cut them off, therefore they must behave while Luke is a part of her life. How is that not a condition of Luke being with her? He turned her down when she offered to cut them off, but changed his mind when Emily admitted Lorelai had not misrepresented her ability to do so.

I disagree. I think when Emily confronted Luke that night it wasn't that he realized Lorelai could cut her out of her life, because he knows she could, she all but cut her out of her life before Rory went to Chilton, and he knew shew would do it again. He wasn't sure that he could deal with Emily, but when she confronted him that night and talked down to him, he realized, he could deal with her, what he couldn't deal with was not having Lorelai in his life.

When Lorelai ripped Emily a new one she said it was because it was Emily's fault they'd broken up, and not her own. (Is that what you're saying, LDF?) And that speech never would have happened if Emily had not been there lecturing Luke the night he changed his mind.

No I'm talking about when Emily ripped Luke a new one before Lorelai walked in. Luke knew Emily still disliked him, and thought he was beneath his daughter, but her confronting him the night before showed him that he could deal with all of that.

Well, if he'd been able to figure that out without Emily telling him to, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

No it wasn't what Emily said that had Luke go to Lorelai, they told her that in "Pulp Friction"

They broke up because he couldn't deal with the Gilmores, and the way they treated him, and Christopher's open play for Lorelai. It was his thing, not Lorelai's, he just didn't think he could deal with them being a part of his life.

That whole day in "So... Good Talk" and since the break up, Luke had been falling to part, he was heartbroken, because Lorelai wasn't with him. Then Emily comes in the person responsible for all of his pain, and she talks down to him, and treats him like nothing, and he realizes he can deal with that, as long as he can be with Lorelai he can deal with Emily, Richard and Christopher.

So it wasn't what she said, but what he realized.

She slept with Christopher because it would make Luke unavailable to her, not in spite of it. I'm not reading between the lines, this is what she said to Sookie. She realized Luke wasn't prepared to give her what she dreamed of, so she tried to leave. She still wanted him, but didn't want to want him because she thought she couldn't have him (at least not the way she wanted. Re: Lynnie.)

Her sleeping with Christopher that night wasn't about Luke but about her. Whenever she is scared about her relationships, she retreats to her fantasy. She was affraid she would never marry Luke, so she turned to her old fantasy, and went to Christopher.

The episode is "He's Slippin' Em Bread, Dig?" 6.10. Lorelai has Lunch with Christopher, then tells him about it after he has had a long talk with Liz about April. They even referenced the "infamous" call he wigged over in the conversation.

No I'm talking about before that, before April. I'm refering to the lunch she had with Christopher at the inn in "Emily Says 'Hello'". She tells Luke about it, and he is ok with it. The she lied about the whole Tequila night, and then they broke up.

The next time Christopher comes up is when he leaves that message in "The Prodigal Daughter Returns", before April takes Luke's DNA sample, and Luke is upset because of how Lorelai handled the situation. They talked about it and he was ok with her talking to Christopher as long as she tells him. Then we don't hear about Christopher until Luke knows about him. Then in "He's Slippin' 'Em Bread... Dig?" and he's ok with him and her having lunch, and paying for Yale. Now he might have been feeling guilty about not being in April's life, and how he hasn't told Lorelai about April yet, but he wasn't when Lorelai told him that Christopher was going to be at Rory's Editor Panel, so he was ok with CHristopher as long as Lorelai didn't hid things from him again.

And there is a huge difference between dishonesty and behavior that Luke finds suspicious. Heck, considering his enlightened reactions from before, she could have been transfixed in fear at the sound of Christopher's voice.

True, but Lorelai's pattern of behavior with Christopher, knowing Christopher still wants her, and how much she kept from him before, he has the right to be concerned. Before the "Wedding Bell Blues" Luke didn't have a problem with Christopher, it wasn't until he found out that Lorelai lied to him, and that Christopher was making an open play for Lorelai did Luke react. If she would have told him right up front that it was Christopher, he never would have been suspicious of her behavior.  

Don't get me wrong, I can imagine Luke would be suspicious. But (loudly) accusing her of repeating Tequila night and keeping it to herself was playing with dynamite. If he didn't believe she'd learned her lesson, why did he get back together with her?

He forgave, but didn't forget. She looked guilty by shutting the machine off, and then pausing wwhen Luke asked who was it. If she would have done that differently, or even say that it was Christopher, and replay the message for him, he wouldn't have thought she was doing anything behind his back.

Right. I get that Luke was blindsided. But I don't think talking it out or catching up to her sooner would have yielded anything different. She wanted to break up with him because Anna was right: she wasn't really enough a part of Luke's life to be part of the package Luke had to offer April.
I can't say it enough: She was going to break up with him anyway. Giving him a chance to elope and prove all her doubts were unfounded was her last concession to wanting him. He said no, and so she followed through. How do you think Luke would have felt if he thought she hadn't meant what she said, and they got back together as though nothing had happened?

I think f she didn't sleep with Christopher, they would have made up and perhaps even eloped. Lorelai sleeping with Christpher killed the relationship, not her feeling she wasn't going to et married. Without CHristopher they would have worked through it.

There's an old saying: A person who is yelling either really, really means what he is saying, or he really, really doesn't mean what he's saying. Figure it out.

I heard that saying, but it's when a person's drunk.

Seriously, for a rockin' good dissection of the Ins and Outs of Luke, Lorelai, and Christopher (Plus the psychology of Mitch and Logan and Mike's legendary "What makes a real man/woman debate) check out  The Season Six Finale Thread (http://www.gilmoregirls.org/forum/index.php?topic=4152.0).

I'll check that thread out.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: lessa on February 21, 2007, 10:24:34 pm
True, an attraction doesn't equal someone "Being in the picture", but it was more then Lorelai or Luke finding the other attractive, everyone could tell that they had deep feelings for each other, I mean Taylor had a plan set into motion in case they ever broke up. Sookie, Emily, Rory, Liz, Stars Hollow, everyone knew it, so Luke wasn't like her other boyfriends at all.

Rory knew it would change things if Lorelai dated Luke and broke up with him. So did the town. But no one actually expected it would work out between them if they dated. Moreover, out of fear of such a disruptive outcome, the town and Rory both opposed them dating. And none of it came up until Lorelai actually announced an intention. In any case, it was all still far in the future when Lorelai was taking a chance on Christopher in "I Can't Get Started." It doesn't mean he would have been 'the one' without Luke in the picture, but it was a strong indication that she seriously entertained the possibility with a reformed Christopher before Luke was even able to admit his obvious feelings.

Quote
Lorelai falls into a routine with Christopher, they have sex, and then the other shoe drops and she realizes he's not the man she wants. He asked her to marry him in Season 1 in "Christopher Returns", she wouldn't. Christopher represent her past, the days when she wild and carefree, before she had Rory. She still has that fantasy about them, and when she gets down or scared in a relationship, esspecially she falls back on it, because she knows it won't happen. When she was going to marry Max, she fell back on it, and called Christopher, then called of her wedding. Then at Sookie & Jackson's wedding she sees, two people who are perfect for each other getting ready to get married, and she wants that, and falls back on her old fantasy again with Christopher, and then the other shoe drops, and she wakes up.

Right, she runs into Christopher and has a fling after a relationship ends badly. Doesn't make her relationship with him any less valid. You make it sound like a bad thing that she wanted to marry Christopher once he got his life straightened out. The only reason they didn't marry before she fell in love with Luke (or at least get far enough to realize that she couldn't marry him) was timing. Well, and the fact that he hadn't gotten his life together yet.
And yes, she fell on an old pattern the night she and Luke broke up, but she stepped back from it and refused to date him until she'd wallowed and talked her 'pattern' over with Rory. She'd never followed all the way through with him before, so it couldn't all have been part of the pattern.

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I disagree. I think when Emily confronted Luke that night it wasn't that he realized Lorelai could cut her out of her life, because he knows she could, she all but cut her out of her life before Rory went to Chilton, and he knew shew would do it again. He wasn't sure that he could deal with Emily, but when she confronted him that night and talked down to him, he realized, he could deal with her, what he couldn't deal with was not having Lorelai in his life.

He knew she would do it for Rory, that's not the same thing. And if it was really that he couldn't be without her, he could have said so in "Jews and Chinese Food." (5.15) I really don't think he knew Lorelai had passed on Christopher and cut Emily off over the breakup until Emily told him. Timingwise, it seemed to make a big difference in his trust level.

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No I'm talking about when Emily ripped Luke a new one before Lorelai walked in. Luke knew Emily still disliked him, and thought he was beneath his daughter, but her confronting him the night before showed him that he could deal with all of that.

The outcome of the argument was that Lorelai was still angry with Emily and Emily had thought it was Luke's fault. He wouldn't have to be a genius to work out that he was caught in the crossfire of a Lorelai/Emily fight, only this time, Lorelai stood up to her mother in his presence.

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No it wasn't what Emily said that had Luke go to Lorelai, they told her that in "Pulp Friction"
They broke up because he couldn't deal with the Gilmores, and the way they treated him, and Christopher's open play for Lorelai. It was his thing, not Lorelai's, he just didn't think he could deal with them being a part of his life.

Well, now he does because Lorelai chose him over them when put on the spot. And in such a dramatic fashion that Emily was insisting they be together. Such family interactions are probably alien to Luke, so he didn't realize before it happened that Lorelai could want to protect him over her own flesh and blood.

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That whole day in "So... Good Talk" and since the break up, Luke had been falling to part, he was heartbroken, because Lorelai wasn't with him. Then Emily comes in the person responsible for all of his pain, and she talks down to him, and treats him like nothing, and he realizes he can deal with that, as long as he can be with Lorelai he can deal with Emily, Richard and Christopher.

Treats him like nothing? Has Emily ever conceded so openly that someone has "won" a fight with her? She told him she couldn't see why Lorelai loved him, but that wasn't the kind of talk that had sent him running for the hills after the vow renewal.
As an alternative (on which we might actually agree) Luke didn't gather any content from the conversation except "go to her." If it hadn't occurred to him by then that he could, that may have been the only part he heard.

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So it wasn't what she said, but what he realized.

Alas, Luke is not very vocal about what he does and doesn't realize. I'll concede your guess is as good as mine (where canon doesn't contradict) but no more.

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Her sleeping with Christopher that night wasn't about Luke but about her. Whenever she is scared about her relationships, she retreats to her fantasy. She was affraid she would never marry Luke, so she turned to her old fantasy, and went to Christopher.

Honestly, you make it sound as though she lives under hypnosis. I'm just going by what she said. And that tryst had nothing to do with her fantasy - she already knew better, as evidenced by her little chat with Rory.

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No I'm talking about before that, before April. I'm refering to the lunch she had with Christopher at the inn in "Emily Says 'Hello'". She tells Luke about it, and he is ok with it. The she lied about the whole Tequila night, and then they broke up.

Ah, that lunch. Sorry, wires crossed. But I still disagree. She looked really tense when she obliquely informed him, then he gives her a stony "Okay," and stalks off to the storeroom. She didn't look too much like she thought he was okay with it. It's still a million miles from his "I think that's absolutely great" from 6.10.

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The next time Christopher comes up is when he leaves that message in "The Prodigal Daughter Returns", before April takes Luke's DNA sample, and Luke is upset because of how Lorelai handled the situation. They talked about it and he was ok with her talking to Christopher as long as she tells him. Then we don't hear about Christopher until Luke knows about him. Then in "He's Slippin' 'Em Bread... Dig?" and he's ok with him and her having lunch, and paying for Yale. Now he might have been feeling guilty about not being in April's life, and how he hasn't told Lorelai about April yet, but he wasn't when Lorelai told him that Christopher was going to be at Rory's Editor Panel, so he was ok with CHristopher as long as Lorelai didn't hid things from him again.

Right, so he's cold about Christopher's existence when he reappears after Rory's dictum, he's violent about her deception in WBB, then after that, it's smooth sailing, because he has no stones to throw about Lorelai seeing the father of her child (with or without telling him.) Just because he's no longer in a position to make demands based on his jealousy doesn't mean he's no longer jealous.

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True, but Lorelai's pattern of behavior with Christopher, knowing Christopher still wants her, and how much she kept from him before, he has the right to be concerned. Before the "Wedding Bell Blues" Luke didn't have a problem with Christopher, it wasn't until he found out that Lorelai lied to him, and that Christopher was making an open play for Lorelai did Luke react. If she would have told him right up front that it was Christopher, he never would have been suspicious of her behavior.

Umm, I don't think he didn't have a problem with it. He looked nauseous when Lorelai told him about it. And I know I'm guilty of a few "would have happened"s, but really? You think Luke wouldn't have minded her spending the night with Christopher if he'd only known about it? Nothing he did before season 7 indicates that he would have found it acceptable behavior in a girlfriend, honest or otherwise. He doubted her heart along with her actions in that interplay.


Quote
He forgave, but didn't forget. She looked guilty by shutting the machine off, and then pausing wwhen Luke asked who was it. If she would have done that differently, or even say that it was Christopher, and replay the message for him, he wouldn't have thought she was doing anything behind his back.

Well, she had every reason to be frightened. Luke also had a reason to be suspicious, but he raged about it before he left, and refused to talk about it while he was spinning grim fantasies of her infidelity in his mind. What he shouldn't have forgotten was that Lorelai didn't cheat on him. Focusing on the lie is what he chose to do.

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I think f she didn't sleep with Christopher, they would have made up and perhaps even eloped. Lorelai sleeping with Christpher killed the relationship, not her feeling she wasn't going to et married. Without CHristopher they would have worked through it.

A marriage wouldn't have solved her problems with Luke. How could she have believed he really wanted it after his first response to her ultimatum, followed by her refusal to reconsider the next morning? Besides, his remarks that he should be faster to keep up with her showed he completely missed the point. She wanted in with him, not for him to do more for her, and a piece of paper is no guarantee of that with Luke.

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There's an old saying: A person who is yelling either really, really means what he is saying, or he really, really doesn't mean what he's saying. Figure it out.
I heard that saying, but it's when a person's drunk.

Ah, well, diff'rent strokes. But the yelling bit works in context.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: marijose on February 23, 2007, 06:18:49 am
I'm a fan from south america and I love the show but I'm so dissapointed for the breakup of Lorelai and Chris. I loved them toghether although I hated the way Lorelai treated Chris while married. Maybe they shouldn't have get married in the firts place because marriage is not a game. Luke didn't treat Lorelai well, just remember saint valentine's weekend episode when he didn't even had a present for Lorelai and Logan had to give him one... that apart from the April situation. I know Chris wasn't around when he should but he had changed,  has anyone thought what's going to hapen now between Christopher and Rory? I thought they finally became a family.  :-[


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: maverick_dreamer on February 24, 2007, 11:37:06 pm
Quote
Rory knew it would change things if Lorelai dated Luke and broke up with him. So did the town. But no one actually expected it would work out between them if they dated. Moreover, out of fear of such a disruptive outcome, the town and Rory both opposed them dating.

Can I ask what episode Rory said she didn't want her to date Luke? Rory also did NOT want her mother to be with Chris because she said EXACTLY what Luke Danes Fan said: That Lorelai waits for Christopher to get "straight", than leaves a relationship to be with him only to find out his not ready after all.

In unhealthy relationship factors this proves that Chris and her relationship is unhealthy, because even though she wants to want Chris, she can't because he is not good for her. He always disapoints her.

Also his immaturity and not coming to the hospital even I was shocked at!

I believe the reason that Lorelai this time chose to be with Chris was because she realised she didn't want to wait anymore, not for anyone. Chris was always willing to marry her so she stepped into it, took the risk she'd always been putting off. I think this season was horribly done in general as it made her appear more flighty. But perhaps being potential last it wanted to resolve the Chris/Lorelai dynamic once and for all.

Chris represents everything Lorelai wanted when she was immature: that is why his character can appear immature. Now she wants stability, and she thought she found that in Luke. Who is very stable. Except that Luke had odd circumstances thrown at him that made him no longer her "constant". I hope this was done to show Lorelai that she has to find her own stability and not rely on her relationships, which is how Emily handled the news.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: urbanmonkey on February 25, 2007, 12:12:13 am
It wasn't the town itself that was opposed to them dating.  It was Taylor, and he was only opposed to it because of the economy.  Had Luke and Lorelai been just normal Stars Hollow Citizens, such as Babette and Morey he wouldn't have cared.  But because Luke owns the diner, and Lorelai the Dragonfly, it would cause people to choose between the two and that's what he was worried about.  Rory never said she couldn't date Luke, or ever said she was opposed to it.  Unless you want to count the what?  Second episode where she says "Oh no.  You can not date Luke because you'll break up and we'll never be able to eat there again."  But once Lorelai truly considered dating Luke during Season 4, Rory was fine with it. 


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: ~*SailorMoonFan*~ on March 03, 2007, 07:44:01 pm
 :o lorelai denied  coffee!! How can she ever not want coffee?

I suppose it was b/c she wanted to talk to chris, but still...how can she deny coffee?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: honey on March 14, 2007, 03:25:31 pm
I agree it would be nicw if she wnet running to Luke and telling him the mistake she made and how much she loves him.I did not think that is coming to come anytime soon. Wish it would but that only wishful thinking.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: GG~lives~on on April 09, 2007, 06:56:14 pm
Is it just me, or did Rory look a little like a skeleton at the start of this episode? Maybe it was just the lighting with the fact that she's a brunette with the fact that she was wearing all black...  But that's the thing that struck me when I saw that episode, and the second time I saw it. Very strange.

I thought the TA crush was cute, but because I didn't know if these new writers would be brash enough to actually cause Rory & Logan to break up over this. It was really painful to watch, b/c it's like," NO RORY! DON'T DO ANYTHING STUPID!!!!! WE (and you) LOOOVE LOGAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I'm glad it's all settled now.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: crayolamarker66333 on April 10, 2007, 02:49:44 pm
I can't remember exactly, but when I rewatched the episode the next day, I swore I saw Lane, NOT PREGNANT! You know while Zach was recited "My Heart Will Go On..." I thought I saw her slouched down, and bored, not pregnant, if anyone could verify it for me, I would have a huge relief...


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: cds1305 on April 10, 2007, 05:46:18 pm
I really hope Chris and lorelai break up tonight. I never even wanted them to get married, that part just turned me away from the show. I hope luke and lorelai get back together and soon!!!  :-*


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: neverapuff on April 10, 2007, 06:17:34 pm
ahh, re-watching this was sad... I'm glad the the Lorelai-Christopher disaster finally came crumbling down, but it is still unsettling when she says, "You're the man I want to want." And it was kinda funny watching Rory flirt with that TA. This whole season is so disjointed for me; so, was this the most-recent epi?  To refresh us, since next week is new?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: sosad on April 10, 2007, 06:19:52 pm
I am very sad with the way that the show has been going. I just wanted to put that out there I know that there are tons of fans of the Luke story line but watching the earlier episodes I see how GREAT she was with Christopher. I also read the spoilers and I am just not sure that I can continue watching the show anymore. I just thought that I would put this out there.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: trickyiu on April 10, 2007, 06:27:48 pm
This whole season is so disjointed for me; so, was this the most-recent epi?  To refresh us, since next week is new?

This was not the newest episode.  There have been 3 more episodes played after this one, so I have no idea why they replayed this episode and not 7.17.  Maybe b/c next week we will finally see some L/L interaction and it will make it more enjoyable after seeing Lorelai and Chris break up  :)

After re-watching this episode tonight all I have to say is Lauren Graham's acting in this episode was phenomenal!!  She is so amazing  :)


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Lucie on April 12, 2007, 12:36:35 pm
I really loved this episode. I thought that what Lorelai sad to Chris was sad yet the perfect thing to say in the situation. I love Chris  :)and I thought he and Lorelai were great together, but I get it :-[. He was so sweet. I can't remember for sure, but I think I actually cried :'( when Lorelai talked to Chris. And I love the scene with Rory and Logan. I was glad that she told him, and I was glad he understood. Lauren Graham is an amazing actress (I know you all already know that but...) when she talked to Chris, wow!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: xxLL4Everxx on April 14, 2007, 08:09:29 am
Okay I'm breaking the Java Junkie code by saying this but I cried too when L/C broke up, but I was happy they broke up, so maybe they were tears of joy... or maybe not... Nope they were!!! YAY!

And Chin Chin's funeral was so sad! It made me cry, so I guess you could say I did a lot of crying during this episode.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: katie_lou on April 25, 2007, 04:06:52 am
Was anyone else cringing when Rory was *flirting* with the TA in the bookstore? Ugh I was actually yelling at the tv for her to just stop talking before she dug an even deeper hole. So glad she stuck with Logan. Their conversation about it was very weird though...  Who tells their boyfriend they have a crush on someone else? and then he's completely relaxed and understanding! Though it did show how much Logan has matured.

Also the Lorelai outside Luke's waving to him at the counter scene gave me a feeling of deja vu. Am I imagining it or has that scene happened before, with the sort of reluctant wave?


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: gilmore2972 on September 21, 2007, 02:30:38 pm
i agree


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Dani257 on September 24, 2007, 11:18:49 pm
To me, it makes perfect sense that Rory would tell Logan about her crush, given what happened with Marty.  Part of the problem was that she had neglected to fill Logan in on the fact that she had spent time in Marty's company.  Rory didn't want to make the same mistake.  And, I think she wanted reassurance.  That she wasn't a monster and that Logan wouldn't be upset with her.  Funny, sometimes Rory bristles up at anyone saying she's done something wrong (even when she's committed some doozies) but other times, it's almost like she's seeking punishment.  I think this was one of the punishment times.  She wanted reassurance, but she wanted to confess her sins and have Logan lay into her before forgiving her.  Generically, I don't know who would tell their boyfriend they have a crush.  Specifically based on events and characterization, it makes sense for Rory.  And, as far as Logan being understanding, past events also play a part.  First, the fact that Rory did tell him and he wasn't surprised by it made a big difference.  And, he had come to the conclusion that he had overreacted with Marty.  But, I think the biggest thing was, the TA was so obviously not a threat.  Rory didn't have feelings for him.  She reacted to him the way you might react to a favorite tv star.  Only the most insecure and possessive guy would be upset to find that their girlfriend had a crush on a tv or movie star.  And, since Rory isn't Paris, the idea that the TA would be any more dangerous than a celebrity wasn't really an issue.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: monsoon on November 30, 2007, 12:22:05 pm
Just saw this episode...(my 6th one today!)...

It was a good episode...but the writing's definitely different...DR makes his characters speak much more "introspectively", and um, simply. There isn't much complexity in the writing (except the last scene)  - ASP and DP could write in a more complex manner...

I thought the Rory sharing the crush with Logan was weird - with her Mom, she should have  - but with Logan? Nonetheless, it was nicely done.

The last scene was sad, but beautiful. Great acting by Lauren, and David Sutclife wasn't  half bad.

...
Also the Lorelai outside Luke's waving to him at the counter scene gave me a feeling of deja vu. Am I imagining it or has that scene happened before, with the sort of reluctant wave?

I think maybe there's a similar scene in the 4th Season Finale ("Raincoats & Recipes")? -  where Rory waves at Dean, through Luke's Diner's window and Dean looks away.

Also, this show was always supposed to be a comedy-drama (dramedy?) - but I can't see a lot of the humour coming back. It's permanently changed into  a "Drama" with just a few mins of funny lines thrown in...



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: javajunkie93 on December 01, 2007, 06:11:03 am
No, I feel like that wave definitely happened before...I don't know when, though.

I actually really like this episode! However much I detest Lorelai and Chris, it really is a heart-wrenching breakup scene. It's like Lorelai's crying because she realizes now she's right back at square one, and the idea of Luke again scares her, I think. I find it ironic that only in this episode is Chris actually the perfect husband, when he's saying, "I know, I know..." there, he's great.
And don't laugh, but I cried during the dog funeral. I'm a dork, I know, but it was sad! Not that the dog was dead, but the look on Lorelai's face while Zack is playing guitar is heark-breaking.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: monsoon on December 01, 2007, 11:29:21 pm
No, I feel like that wave definitely happened before...I don't know when, though.

I actually really like this episode! However much I detest Lorelai and Chris, it really is a heart-wrenching breakup scene. It's like Lorelai's crying because she realizes now she's right back at square one, and the idea of Luke again scares her, I think. I find it ironic that only in this episode is Chris actually the perfect husband, when he's saying, "I know, I know..." there, he's great.
And don't laugh, but I cried during the dog funeral. I'm a dork, I know, but it was sad! Not that the dog was dead, but the look on Lorelai's face while Zack is playing guitar is heark-breaking.


OK, then I guess I can't recall the scene.

And yes, and the episode was good - good enough, strangely to end my Season 7 DVD viewing-marathon - I think I was looking for the episode that would finally put my mind to rest, so was watching four or 6 episodes per day for 2-3 days. Now, I can go back to a leisurely pace, and actually savor every episode, rather than simply getting through them and having my mind go numb.

The dog scene was definitely very sad - and I am not a dog person. I loved the acoustic guitar rendition of My Heart will go on...and yes, the close up to Lorelai's face was heart-breaking.



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Tucker on December 03, 2007, 05:18:01 pm
why couldnt lorelai program her speed dial? lol .... she programmed luke's speed dial in season 5... does someone just forget how to do that?  :-\   terrible continuity



Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kaylarox on December 19, 2007, 06:42:59 pm
I kinda felt bad for Zack when he had to play my heart will go on. poor boy.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Nuttmegg015 on February 26, 2008, 06:46:32 pm
POOR MICHEL! I remeber when he got the dogs it was right after the independence inn burned down. It stinks he was in love with those dogs and it is one of the few things that Michel really Loved!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: kathioy on February 28, 2008, 12:41:26 pm
I love this episode and the entire season 7!! I have all the years and watch them over and over!  I am so sorry that the series ended :'(  I even watch the reruns each morning (even though I have the discs!)  All my friends think I'm CRAZY!  and you know what?  I really don' care!


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Copperboom619 on March 28, 2008, 07:24:10 pm
I think that lorelai really (as much as i hate to admit it) wanted things to work out with Chris she reallyl oved him or at least wanted to. Like in the kitchen and then in the inn she really wanted it to work she was all in like she said at least thats what i got from the eyes.  However i think as soon as sookie said something about if luke was never there would it be chris it made her realize that she can't force it to work.  And then you could tell how she was thinking about it all day she wasn't sad b/c of the dog it was about waht sookie said. The end was so sad i was crying not because i like chris but because i could tell how much lorelai was hurting.


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: forfun on April 07, 2009, 06:54:21 pm
I just hope that they do make it


Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: Gilmore Gyrlie on April 25, 2009, 10:38:56 am


I agree with the above post, both LG and Sutcliffe did a great job with the break-up scene.

She will always love Christopher, but is IN L0VE with Luke.




it was nice to hear him admit to pushing Lorelai into this hasty marriage.  Along with her admitting  share of the blame, by foolishly


jumping into it with Chris.





Title: Re: 7.14 - Farewell, My Pet
Post by: thevoid99 on June 26, 2009, 03:15:10 pm
It's over.  And all I can think of is... relief.

I maybe a Java Junkie and a full-on Luke-Lorelai supporter.  Yet, that was probably the saddest thing Lorelai has ever done.  These past few years was the worst period in her life.  She lost Rory for a while.  Then she lost Luke.  Then she loses herself in hopes to have someone want her and be with her.  Instead, the emotional baggage over her break-up with Luke still loomed and I think after all of the problems that Christopher brought finally just came crashing down.

There are some flaws about Luke.  Yes, he was distant and uncommunicative.  He did want to marry her but he found himself in a mess that he tried to fix and lost sight of things.  The idea of cutting Luke out of Lorelai's life for the sake of her marriage proved too much.  If she cuts Luke out of her life for good.  That means having to leave Stars Hollow.  Having to leave the Dragonfly to run another inn in some other town.  And find herself in a place that she doesn't know where she is.  Stars Hollow was the place that gave her something and provided a home for her and Rory.  It was the place where she didn't feel lonely.  I think in breaking up with Luke and having gone through all of that mess.  She lost herself and then when she married Christopher.  She lost more of herself and everything.  I think what she expected from Christopher is a sense of nostalgia in reliving their youth.  The problem is that, all of that was a long time ago.  She's changed and grown up and Christopher after all these years, hasn't grown up. 

Christopher, I think to his credit, wanted the marriage to work but realized he made a mistake in having Lorelai just jump and rush into the marriage like that.  He didn't give her enough time and he took advantage of her when she was very emotional.  He thought he had his shot in getting Lorelai back but ended up stealing another man's woman.  I think him giving up was just a step of him realizing that it might not work.

I think what Sookie said to Lorelai about what if Luke had never existed really made Lorelai question everything.  After all, who would be the person to give her coffee and make food for her all the time?  Who would be the person to help in business matters and give her money to help her dream?  Who would be the person that would as a father figure of sorts to her own daughter?  Who would be the person that mattered to all of the people in her life?  Michel even.  He went to eat a burger at Luke's and Luke probably told him to have a big run to lose the taste and weight of that burger. 

I think in the end, Lorelai did what she had to do and that hurt.  She never meant to hurt anyone but she did hurt a lot of the people around her when she married Christopher.  Christopher, I think did the right thing in just admitting guilt and he is the man she wants to want.  In a way, he is the love of her life but so is Luke.  That was something she realized and I think in just ending this marriage to Christopher is her reclaiming herself.  In doing that, she can start all over.  Take one day at a time to pick herself up, eat a pop tart, get some coffee, and just be Lorelai Gilmore again.  For her to be with Luke again, that will have to wait because neither of them seem to be ready to talk to each other at this point.

This was a great episode and I must commend the performances of Lauren and David Sutcliffe for that last scene.  There was a bit of humor in the Chin-Chin funeral scene, that was sad though.  I did like seeing the dogs at the funeral.  Rory's little crush was fine though I do understand why she has a thing to mess herself up.  I'm glad she was honest to Logan about that.  I would've love to see Paris do a belly-dance.  That would've been a hoot.  I also loved that opening scene with Emily and Richard and noticed how committed Emily is to her husband.  Something Lorelai couldn't do with Christopher.  It is a very sad episode.  I'm not happy that she and Chris broke up.  In fact, I think they never should've gotten married or be together like that.  It was just two people putting themselves in a very ugly mess when one person is still in love with someone else.  Now, they just have to have time to realize that they could never be together and weren't right for each other.